Author Topic: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification  (Read 32951 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline o2dazone

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 953
[Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 22:29:10 »
After being heavily inspired by hasu, mikelanding, and MMKB's Type S :P I decided to silence my own board. I initially used orthodontic bands on one of my boards, and while the sound dampening was perfect, it did affect the throw of the switch slightly. So I went back to the drawing board, absorbing all the great advice in this thread, and got some punches, and some rubber. I also ordered latex, but after one punchout, I realized it was far too stretchy to work with.

14211-0

Here's me punching holes. After about 6 or so punches, I realized the hammer was overkill, and instead resorted to just placing the punch where I want, and twisting it half a turn. Much less pounding :)

14213-1

A couple prototypes. I made about 4 before committing to the project completely, to make sure this was even going to work, and wasn't going to waste two hours manually cutting holes into rubber.

14215-2

Delicious cup rubber

14217-3

It's like some sort of weird snake shed it's skin here.

14219-4

Punch punch punch. As you can see none of them were perfect. Because these were such a tight fit in terms of size, any odd ones were thrown out and repunched.

14221-5

The work area. You can see the dental band modded hhkb in the back, a tore down board, and a couple experimental materials in the background.

14223-6

Just a cool shot. I wish I had more time to photograph the board, but I was on a mission!!

14225-7

You can see the rings resting inside the housing. They look a little out of place in some areas, and some required trimming. Others were tossed.



Note: The punches I ordered don't do 9mm and 12mm like hasu had suggested in another thread. Unfortunately, due to ****ty Imperial system, I was stuck between sizes. I knew this going in, and adjusted accordingly.


Overall, very happy with the mod. A hell of a lot more work than the orthodontic bands, but a lot more satisfying in terms that in didn't alter the feeling at all. I'll post up a video shortly with side by sides comparing the HHKB Dental Bands and the HHKB Homemade rubber washers.


Offline o2dazone

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 953
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 22:54:43 »

Black HHKB: Orthodontic bands silencing mod
White HHKB: The mod highlighted in this post
Corsair K60 (the last board): unmodified plate mount cherry reds with cheap hollow keys (just to show comparison of sound)

It's about as quiet as the ortho band mod, maybe a little quieter, but hardly a difference. Feeling wise, it feels identical to an unmodified HHKB.

Offline Michael

  • Formerly Bro Caps
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4634
  • REEEeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 00:22:32 »
Cloud of boobs.


Offline quake4mhg

  • Posts: 491
  • Location: BC, Canada
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 04:27:36 »
Awesome mod!!  :D

Offline Batmann

  • Posts: 531
  • Location: France
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 04:58:53 »
Cloud of boobs.

Show Image


I heard this expression to describe lubed MX switches but I didn't get it,
Now that makes sense!

Offline chill1217

  • Posts: 43
  • Location: United States
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 08 March 2013, 06:48:38 »
how would you say this mod compares to the type-s?

i already have a realforce 87u.  i'm contemplating whether it would be worth it to shell out $30 to do this mod, or to try to sell my keyboard and purchase a type-s. 

thanks!

Offline igor.arhipov

  • Posts: 3
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 14:51:27 »
I make custom punches  :)


Custom punches make perfect rings very fast :)






Silenced sound is so noble and expensive  :cool: :thumb:  :thumb:

P.S.: I'm ready to give someone a custom punches to make your Excalibur
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 December 2013, 09:46:22 by igor.arhipov »

Offline terran5992

  • Posts: 1485
  • Location: Singapore
  • One With The Cup Rubber
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:12:36 »
I make custom punches  :)
Show Image


Custom punches make perfect rings very fast :)
Show Image


Silenced sound is so noble and expensive  :cool: :thumb:  :thumb:

P.S.: I'm ready to give someone a custom punches to make your Excalibur

0.o looks awesome

Listokei Custom  |  HHKB Pro 2  |  Topre Realforce 103UBH  |  Armageddon MKA-3


Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21135
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:31:06 »
I make custom punches  :)
Show Image


Custom punches make perfect rings very fast :)
Show Image


Silenced sound is so noble and expensive  :cool: :thumb:  :thumb:

P.S.: I'm ready to give someone a custom punches to make your Excalibur

Welcome to Geekhack!

Those who can, do!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline MJ45

  • HHKB Pro
  • Posts: 530
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:46:03 »
Yes Welcome! And what a great first post, that's the best do-it yourself silence mod I've seen so far. How about let me do my Excalibur I,m ready?

Offline tuxsavvy

  • Posts: 441
  • 白HHKBの魔法使い
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 20:06:26 »
Welcome to geekhack! and yes I am also really surprised at your custom hole puncher. I suppose you do black/metal smith professionally? In either case it looks amazing.
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。

Offline hasu

  • Posts: 3256
  • Location: Tokyo, Japan
  • @tmk
    • tmk keyboard firmware project
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 04:21:31 »
Nice jig. You made even punches yourself!?
Awesome work!

Offline igor.arhipov

  • Posts: 3
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 01 December 2013, 08:23:45 »
Thanks bros

Yes, custom punches were made ​​by me from an old iron armature.

all tricks for perfect topre silence rings in this picture


Some friends helped me do it on a lathe for a few bottles of vodka ( I dont drink and I'm from Russia )


full report link - http://vk.com/happy_hacking_keyboard?z=album-59398255_180761672
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 December 2013, 15:54:06 by igor.arhipov »

Offline MJ45

  • HHKB Pro
  • Posts: 530
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 01 December 2013, 11:51:41 »
Very nice work thanks for sharing your punch design its a simple but efficient way to produce silencing washers. When I silence my HHKB I'll probably use this method as some others limit plunger-travel more than I would like.   

Offline jwaz

  • * based mod
  • Posts: 2069
  • #geekhack on freenode
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 09 December 2013, 15:51:10 »
Thanks bros

Yes, custom punches were made ​​by me from an old iron armature.

all tricks for perfect topre silence rings in this picture

so... how much for a set? :D

Offline igor.arhipov

  • Posts: 3
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 12 December 2013, 11:53:08 »
I make a few (2-5) sets and send them for a nominal fee or what ever service.
Two people already agreed with me on the price $ 0.00   ( remains only to find an economical way of shipping from Russia )

Offline Moosecraft

  • HHKB Pro
  • Posts: 734
  • Location: Sweden
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 12 December 2013, 12:41:03 »
I make a few (2-5) sets and send them for a nominal fee or what ever service.
Two people already agreed with me on the price $ 0.00   ( remains only to find an economical way of shipping from Russia )
I would buy one, and shipping wont be that bad as I'm in Sweden :)
I am bigfatmc over at other places!

Offline Dude

  • Posts: 67
  • Location: CA
  • Thwock!
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 12 December 2013, 19:13:43 »
I just finished this mod.  Good god my keyboard is quiet now!!

For anyone attempting this on their own (Like I did), I used a 1/2" for the bigger punchout, and the 3/8" for the smaller one.  After doing this on my own though, I would highly recommend purchasing those rubber washers from someone if they are willing to make them for you.  They are a huge pain in the bum to make.

Realforce 87U Tenkeyless

Offline Sai

  • Posts: 820
  • Location: SG
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 12 December 2013, 21:54:07 »
I make a few (2-5) sets and send them for a nominal fee or what ever service.
Two people already agreed with me on the price $ 0.00   ( remains only to find an economical way of shipping from Russia )

i would buy one if its not too expensive. :D
- WTB/WTT - Cotton Candy Brobot V2

Offline do_Og@n

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 988
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 13 December 2013, 00:31:18 »
Awesome work, how long does it take you from start to finish?

Offline Dude

  • Posts: 67
  • Location: CA
  • Thwock!
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 13 December 2013, 01:00:02 »
Awesome work, how long does it take you from start to finish?

For a noob like me, it took a long time.  I had never taken apart my Realforce keyboard before, so I went really slowly and made sure I didn't mess up any steps.  I also didn't realize that I had to cut off all those nubs on the stems in order to take them out of the switch unit.

Taking it apart and removing all those nubs took me ~2 hours total since I didn't know what I was doing.  Once I had it apart, I spent another 30-60 minutes or so figuring out what size to cut the washers to (And comparing the washers to dental rubber bands, since I was very close at one point to just using those instead of making the washers).  Once I had that figured out, it was maybe 2 more hours of cutting those little washers, lubing each switch with the EK MechLube 2 lube, and putting everything back together.

If I were to do this again, it would be much quicker.  I'm guessing I could probably do it in about 2 hours total.
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 December 2013, 01:02:54 by Dude »

Realforce 87U Tenkeyless

Offline oTurtlez

  • DAT ZACKATTACK
  • Posts: 586
  • Location: Rhode Island
  • Fo' Realforce
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 13 December 2013, 13:09:54 »
This is pretty sweet. I just did the dental band mod to my HHKB and though I love the sound, just like you, I'm not really digging the affecting of the throw of the switch. It feels totally different now, almost linear, weird.
TOO BAD FOR YOU

              Phantom 62g MX Whites    


Offline Shyfe

  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Illinois
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 28 April 2014, 02:39:17 »
hey. great idea! I've bought the punches that you linked to. I've also noticed that there's an even thinner sheet of rubber that is otherwise the same as you linked to. It's 0.010" instead of 0.020"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005584R1U/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

I've bought a sheet of this and I'll let you know how it goes. Do you have any other suggested punches or is the set you linked to already good enough?

HHKB (55g) | IBM SSK | Realforce 87U (55g) | Unicomp EnduraPro | KBT Oni

Offline AKIMbO

  • HHKBro
  • Posts: 1778
  • Location: Tennessee
  • Know Topre, Know Peace. No Topre, No Peace.
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:42:26 »
I just replicated this mod...thanks o2dazone!

Popping out the sliders with a screwdriver.

Punching gaskets out of the silicon

Silicon gaskets installed

The final product (the key feels a little heavier but quieter than a stock type-s)
Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)
| KBD75 (box reds)

Offline Glissant

  • Posts: 1976
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 13 May 2014, 05:08:45 »
I decided to do this mod after I had talked with Bro Caps about different silencing methods for the hhkb pro2. I first did a dental band mod to my hhkb pro2, and I really enjoy the feel and sound of what the 1/8" light dental bands and some lube did to the board.
However, I wanted to do something different to my RF87UB 55g, so I bought the rubber and the punches, and mixed up some lube ready to see how nicely this mod works.


The punches and silicone rubber arrived quickly enough at our house in Philly, but I wasn't going to get them for another few weeks when my wife was to arrive here in Oslo, Norway.
When they finally arrived with my lovely wife I still hadn't realized what I was getting myself into with this mod.
64545-0
I also got some shelf liner to see if I could add a layer inside the case to dampen more of the sound. I had not read anywhere that there was room for this, but I still wanted to see. And the shelf liner will be great for my upcoming GH60 builds anyway, so it won't be a waste.

I ended up using the 1/2 inch hole punch for the outer ring and the 3/8 inch punch for the inner ring.
I decided to just punch the rings manually, and not to count any of the material I made just so I could mindlessly punch until I got tired of doing it.
It was a lot of work, and I would suggest looking into alternate methods of having this done because it was very time consuming too.

Punching the first circle wasn't difficult once I got the technique down. Punching the inner circle was a bit more challenging as I had to eyeball the positioning for the lack of a smarter idea.
I got into a rhythm, but had to take a break after a couple of hours because my palm was getting a little beat up.


Here you see some of the finished rings to the left, a few circles left to punch a center circle into and a lot of waste product that I didn't even bother thinking what to do with.
64549-1


From then on I just had to pop out the barrels, clean the switch housing and case, and start positioning the rings.
64551-2
Notice I have some krytox switch lube from techkeys on the bottom of that plastic bag, and my own mix sticking out at the top. I am so ready to be done with this mod by this point :D



Putting the rings in place was a satisfying feeling. Tweezers help a lot!
64553-364555-4
Finished product all ready for typing :)
64557-5

I'm happy to report that the mod was a great success. The rattle that my RF87UB 55g had before the mod is completely gone, it's a lot more quiet now and it didn't compromise any of the feel of the switches for me.
I would recommend this mod to anyone with the time and will to do it. It was absolutely worth it all in all.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 May 2014, 05:19:33 by Glissant »

Offline cookie

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Hamburg Germany
    • Deskthority
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 15 May 2014, 08:42:36 »
I did this mod with different Material and from what I can say the best (and hardest to find) material is foam.
Dense material like silicone works but the effect is way better on light material like foam.

See here: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/happy-hacking-silencing-aka-ghetto-s-t7056.html?hilit=Ghetto)

Offline Awful

  • Don't Topre.
  • Posts: 404
  • Location: 304
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 15 May 2014, 23:33:10 »
One with butt rubber.
I hate everything.

Online exitfire401

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 2965
  • Location: United States
  • The Force is Re/\l
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 16 May 2014, 00:07:55 »
Just did the punching today, but since I'm moving tomorrow, won't be able to put the rings into my 87u until next week. Just hoping I can move my computer and boards without any damage
Boards: Kingsaver Complicated Blue Alps |Sprit 60% Transparent MX Clears in Gateron housings with 62g gold Sprit springs lubed and RGB color shifting LEDs | Ducky Shine Zone MX Black with Blue LEDs | Realforce 10AE Variable Silenced

B/S/T thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55351.0

Past projects: KBT Race 2 L.E.
Past Boards: Ducky Shine 2 | KBT Pure | LZ Aluminum Skin| HHKB | Realforce 23u |

Offline daerid

  • Posts: 4276
  • Location: Denver, CO
    • Rossipedia
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 16 May 2014, 19:29:49 »
How does this affect the feel of the switches in terms of key travel? That's the only thing that's really bothering me about the dental band mod.

Offline Glissant

  • Posts: 1976
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 17 May 2014, 02:28:55 »
daerid, I mention it not changing the feel of the switches for me, so key travel doesn't seem to be compromised enough to be noticeable for me. YMMV.
You might also want to try smaller dental bands. I used 1/8" light dental bands in my hhkb, and they didn't make the key travel bad for me, but they still made a big difference in sound.

Offline Latin00032

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1528
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 28 May 2014, 19:04:21 »
I did this mod with different Material and from what I can say the best (and hardest to find) material is foam.
Dense material like silicone works but the effect is way better on light material like foam.

See here: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/happy-hacking-silencing-aka-ghetto-s-t7056.html?hilit=Ghetto)

Did you do a side by side comparison?

Offline daerid

  • Posts: 4276
  • Location: Denver, CO
    • Rossipedia
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 28 May 2014, 22:59:48 »
daerid, I mention it not changing the feel of the switches for me, so key travel doesn't seem to be compromised enough to be noticeable for me. YMMV.
You might also want to try smaller dental bands. I used 1/8" light dental bands in my hhkb, and they didn't make the key travel bad for me, but they still made a big difference in sound.

I used the ones from ebay everybody linked to in the original thread. For some reason my 55g feels a a bit light on key travel already. Not sure why that is, but the dental bands on top of that were, um... not good.

Offline Glissant

  • Posts: 1976
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 04:30:52 »
dental bands on TOP?! That's a loooot of rubber hahaha. Hope you realized that nobody in this thread added dental bands with the silicone punched rings.

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 15 December 2014, 07:37:29 »
I make custom punches  :)
Show Image


Custom punches make perfect rings very fast :)
Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


Silenced sound is so noble and expensive  :cool: :thumb:  :thumb:

P.S.: I'm ready to give someone a custom punches to make your Excalibur

Did anyone end up getting a set of these? I'm ordering the supplies to do this mod to my Realforce and would happily pay to rent them including shipping both ways. I dont have an issue ordering and using the hole punch set from Amazon but this punch setup with the guide pin looks amazing!

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)


Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 18 December 2014, 09:16:17 »
So I got a chance to try this mod last night and totally botched the whole thing wasting hours of time. I started out using the 3/8" and 1/2" punches but I didn't like how the washers/rings sat in the housings, the OD seemed slightly too big and it caused the ring to kind of bunch up.

So I remembered seeing someone mention using 5/16" and 7/16" punches. This produced rings that initially seemed much better, the rings were much smaller and had to be stretched on to the plunger. During my initial testing of about 5 plungers everything worked great. So I sat down and ground out 82 more rings and started wrapping them around the plungers and putting them back in the keyboard. Once I got the board back together I ran into some serious issues. The rings I created had to be stretched to fit around the plungers and, depending on how perfectly centered I got the inner punch, the outer most perimeter would sometimes flare upwards. With the plunger installed this was enough of an issue to cause more than a couple keys to hang and stick.

It wasn't a total loss though because, before figuring out my silicon washers were garbage, I applied some of the "very thick" Krytox blend to all the housings. I dont feel like it had any noticeable effect on the tactility of the switch but it did make the plungers appreciably quieter. I'm not positive why but in my mind I'm thinking that because this blend is so thick maybe it slows the plungers down ever so slightly and keeps them from clacking so aggressively against the housing. It also helped to remove the little bit of "sweeping" noise you would get when a key is pressed. My board is quiet enough right now having only the very thick lube applied that I'm debating just giving up on the silicon washer business. I'm very happy with how my board feels and glad I spent the effort to apply this lubricant.
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 December 2014, 09:18:29 by strict »

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)


Offline Hogesyx

  • Posts: 21
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 19 December 2014, 02:54:26 »
Foam is definitely better than silicone. I just spent the afternoon converting the expensive 0.5mm silicone that I bought, to some 0.7~1mm low quality foam used for wrapping that I found in my wife's trash pile(from unboxing some parcels).

Pretty amazing result, except the the travel distance is slightly affected now.
Novatouch TKL | Ducky YOTR (Brown) | Ducky Shine (Brown)
Poker II (Red) | GH60 revchn (Clear)

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 19 December 2014, 08:20:36 »
While I respect that someone has come up with a novel way to silence Topre keyboards, it looks like this method is not easy, and people seem to notice the reduced travel and the resulting loss of tactilty.

Maybe you should try this method:
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65853.msg1540901#msg1540901

It's easier because you start from rubber foam that has already been cut to the right dimensions, the key travel is almost not affected (if at all), the switch tactility remains the same, and it has been done successfully many times on a wide range of Topre keyboards.

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 08 February 2015, 18:40:51 »
I got a chance this weekend to re-try this mod. I used 3/8" and 1/2" punches like others had recommended and can confirm that those sizes work. After getting everything bolted back together I now have a fully working silenced board with no dead/hanging keys.

I used the 0.020" silicon sheet but I definitely notice slightly reduced travel. I tested some silenced and non-silenced keys directly next to each other and there is no question that the modified switches have lost a very small amount of tactility. The silenced keys still feel great but not quite the same. The board, however, is almost dead silent now. I'm pretty torn on this mod, the silent part is incredible but the small degradation in tactility is enough to make me question whether or not this is worth keeping.
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 February 2015, 18:46:58 by strict »

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)


Offline Michael

  • Formerly Bro Caps
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4634
  • REEEeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 08 February 2015, 22:32:33 »
I got a chance this weekend to re-try this mod. I used 3/8" and 1/2" punches like others had recommended and can confirm that those sizes work. After getting everything bolted back together I now have a fully working silenced board with no dead/hanging keys.

I used the 0.020" silicon sheet but I definitely notice slightly reduced travel. I tested some silenced and non-silenced keys directly next to each other and there is no question that the modified switches have lost a very small amount of tactility. The silenced keys still feel great but not quite the same. The board, however, is almost dead silent now. I'm pretty torn on this mod, the silent part is incredible but the small degradation in tactility is enough to make me question whether or not this is worth keeping.


I too, noticed the difference, and it felt enough that I didnt like it much. Some people wouldn't notice it much at all, but some will. I went with placing purple silent RF sliders into my HHKB and lubed them. Really super silent, and smooth. Yes, it's very expensive to have to purchase a $300 keyboard just to mod another $300 keyboard, though.

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 08 February 2015, 23:28:50 »

I too, noticed the difference, and it felt enough that I didnt like it much. Some people wouldn't notice it much at all, but some will. I went with placing purple silent RF sliders into my HHKB and lubed them. Really super silent, and smooth. Yes, it's very expensive to have to purchase a $300 keyboard just to mod another $300 keyboard, though.

I'm pretty convinced this is the route I'm going to go as well. Find a silenced 87ub and swap the top half onto my 55g cups. I'm going to try this mod in the meantime but I'm really questioning whether I'll stick with it.


Now if only I could find a silenced RF for sale somewhere ...

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)


Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 09 February 2015, 02:10:44 »

I too, noticed the difference, and it felt enough that I didnt like it much. Some people wouldn't notice it much at all, but some will. I went with placing purple silent RF sliders into my HHKB and lubed them. Really super silent, and smooth. Yes, it's very expensive to have to purchase a $300 keyboard just to mod another $300 keyboard, though.

I'm pretty convinced this is the route I'm going to go as well. Find a silenced 87ub and swap the top half onto my 55g cups. I'm going to try this mod in the meantime but I'm really questioning whether I'll stick with it.


Now if only I could find a silenced RF for sale somewhere ...

You can find a $200 donor board, or you can use $10 landing pads... Very difficult decision indeed. :)

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
[Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 09 February 2015, 21:34:40 »
I definitely don't like how this silicon mod has made my board feel. Even with the 0.020 sheet it's too much. After typing on it at work all day I've determined it just feels too numb. I really, really enjoy how silent it is, but the loss of this much tactility doesn't make it worth it.

I emailed elitekeyboards to ask if they would be getting more silenced boards back in at some point and they replied that the silenced realforces have been discontinued in the US. :'(

Sounds like my hands are tied and I'm going to have to try your mod, spicebar!  :))

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)


Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 14:41:05 »
I definitely don't like how this silicon mod has made my board feel. Even with the 0.020 sheet it's too much. After typing on it at work all day I've determined it just feels too numb. I really, really enjoy how silent it is, but the loss of this much tactility doesn't make it worth it.

I emailed elitekeyboards to ask if they would be getting more silenced boards back in at some point and they replied that the silenced realforces have been discontinued in the US. :'(

Sounds like my hands are tied and I'm going to have to try your mod, spicebar!  :))

In my experience, there is still a loss of tactility when using a material that is only 0.4mm=0.016inch thick. The thickness of your silicone sheet is 0.020inch, so I don't doubt that there is a significant difference in feel.

I think you will get the keyboard you want with the landing pads mod.

The landing pads will be flattened down to 0.15 to 0.20mm (0.006 to 0.008inch). They will be much thinner than the silicone sheet. You should not be able to feel any difference in tactility because the pad will simply fill the space above the sliders, where there is a little bit of play.

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 11 February 2015, 09:22:05 »
In my experience, there is still a loss of tactility when using a material that is only 0.4mm=0.016inch thick. The thickness of your silicone sheet is 0.020inch, so I don't doubt that there is a significant difference in feel.

I think you will get the keyboard you want with the landing pads mod.

The landing pads will be flattened down to 0.15 to 0.20mm (0.006 to 0.008inch). They will be much thinner than the silicone sheet. You should not be able to feel any difference in tactility because the pad will simply fill the space above the sliders, where there is a little bit of play.

I went ahead and ordered a pack of the soft landing pads from EK. I will report back in when I get a chance to try them out. Thanks for all your advice and thoughts! :)

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)


Offline kaminbobby

  • Posts: 30
  • Location: Stockholm
  • -_^
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 03:41:31 »
In my experience, there is still a loss of tactility when using a material that is only 0.4mm=0.016inch thick. The thickness of your silicone sheet is 0.020inch, so I don't doubt that there is a significant difference in feel.

I think you will get the keyboard you want with the landing pads mod.

The landing pads will be flattened down to 0.15 to 0.20mm (0.006 to 0.008inch). They will be much thinner than the silicone sheet. You should not be able to feel any difference in tactility because the pad will simply fill the space above the sliders, where there is a little bit of play.

I went ahead and ordered a pack of the soft landing pads from EK. I will report back in when I get a chance to try them out. Thanks for all your advice and thoughts! :)

How did it work out in the end? thinking of doing this with my 87u when it arrives!
-_^

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 07:42:24 »
In my experience, there is still a loss of tactility when using a material that is only 0.4mm=0.016inch thick. The thickness of your silicone sheet is 0.020inch, so I don't doubt that there is a significant difference in feel.

I think you will get the keyboard you want with the landing pads mod.

The landing pads will be flattened down to 0.15 to 0.20mm (0.006 to 0.008inch). They will be much thinner than the silicone sheet. You should not be able to feel any difference in tactility because the pad will simply fill the space above the sliders, where there is a little bit of play.

I went ahead and ordered a pack of the soft landing pads from EK. I will report back in when I get a chance to try them out. Thanks for all your advice and thoughts! :)

How did it work out in the end? thinking of doing this with my 87u when it arrives!

If I'm honest, not great. I spent hours fiddling around and could never get the landing pads to work right. They would end up either too thick and would change the feel of the key or they would end up too thin and seemed like they were getting stuck in the housing causing the keys to hang and stick. If you look at some of the pictures people have posted, you can see that part of the landing pad rides up on to the stem of plunger, it seemed like that part would get too thin and would get stuck on the housing when the key was released. I ironed about 30 different pads and only got 3-4 that seemed to work half-way decent.

I eventually gave up on them and worked out a deal with another member here to get OEM Topre silent sliders with the OEM foam ring and couldn't be happier with how they work and feel.  :thumb:

Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)


Offline Ludovician

  • Posts: 329
  • Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 07:49:14 »
Did you trim the edges of the landing pads?
Typing speed:
More
Visit the Typing Test and try!

My collection:
More
HHKB Pro 2 (Blank, white) | HHKB Pro 2 Type-S (Blank, white) | Topre Realforce 87UB silent-modded (not currently functional) | Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent (MX Brown) | IBM Model M 1391401 - 9th January 1991 (Bolt+Floss-modded) | Apple keyboard m0116 (Orange Alps) | Unidentified DIN Keyboard (White Alps) | ADDS 1010 (Green Alps) | AEK II (Linear-modded, USB-converted) | IBM PC-AT Model F | Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Black) | Amstrad PC2286 | BigKeys LX | IBM Model M 1391401 - 6th September 1990 | IBM Model M2 1395300 - 28th February 1991 | Leopold FC660C | Cherry G80-11802 (MX Brown) | Matias Tactile Pro (Simplfied grey Alps) | Razer Blackwidow (MX Blue) | Novatouch 55g | Focus FK-2001 (White alps) | DSE Multitech (Blue alps) | Dell AT101W (Matias quiet) | Pok3r (White w/Clears) | KBP V80 (Blue Alps)

Pending:
Infinity kit

Offline strict

  • TKL Zealot
  • Posts: 1921
  • Location: PA
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:16:33 »
Did you trim the edges of the landing pads?

Yep, I tried to trim a couple down but it didnt help. The most common problem was the landing pad riding up on the plunger stem and getting stuck on the housing. This picture (original by spicebar) shows what I mean about the landing pad riding up on the slider stem.


Realforce EK45 (Silenced)  |  Realforce 87UW (45g)  |  Realforce 87UWS (Variable)
Filco MJ2 TKL (Cherry Clears)  |  Phantom 87 (78g Gateron Clears)  |  Phantom 86 (67g Zealios)


Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: [Mod] Another HHKB O Ring modification
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:55:44 »
Did you trim the edges of the landing pads?

Yep, I tried to trim a couple down but it didnt help. The most common problem was the landing pad riding up on the plunger stem and getting stuck on the housing. This picture (original by spicebar) shows what I mean about the landing pad riding up on the slider stem.

Show Image


I'm very surprised, because the fact that the pad rides up on the plunger has never been a problem.

In my first attempts with the landing pads, I avoided making them too thin exactly for this reason. And then I tried and I realized it wasn't a problem at all.

I'm curious about what exactly happened in your case.

On which keyboard did you try the mod?

How can you be sure the problem was caused by the pad riding up the stem? Some people had to cut the corners of the pads, because apparently the corners where the problem.

Did you take pictures?