Author Topic: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C  (Read 15925 times)

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Offline spiceBar

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[MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 20:54:20 »
EDIT March 19th, 2015:

What you will find here is the FIRST version of my method for silencing the upstroke on Topre keyboards.

I have since greatly improved the method by adding a step between steps 4 and 5 below: I use a clothing iron (yes, seriously) to make the landing pads very thin, around 0.15 to 0.20mm (0.006 to 0.008inch).

You will find in the discussion thread that some people have complained that my original method reduced the key travel too much, and that some of the switch tactility was lost. This can be completely fixed by ironing the landing pads. There is a little bit of play on top of the Topre switches, and the thin landing pads can fit there.

With the new method, there is NO REDUCTION IN KEY TRAVEL, and THE SWITCH TACTILITY IS COMPLETELY UNCHANGED. The keyboard is just much more silent.

The method below (and the improved one with ironed landing pads) can be applied to almost any Topre keyboard, including:
- The Leopold FC660C (as shown below)
- The HHKB Pro 2
- The Realforce (all versions)
- The Novatouch
...

My method is not useful for Topre Type-S (silent) models. The mod I describe below has already been done at the factory on these models, except that Topre uses a thicker sound dampening material, and has to use different switch stems to compensate. My mod provides approximately the same noise reduction on the upstroke than the Type-S models. The bottoming-out noise is affected neither in the Type-S nor in my mod, it's still the now legendary "Thock".


ORIGINAL POST:



In this post I will show how to turn your Leopold FC660C into a Type-S FC660C.

I love the FC660C, but to be honest I don't like the sound of non-silenced Topre switches.

The "Thock" part is great, but the "Clack" on the upstroke sucks.

On Cherry switches (reds and browns), I use grease (a lot of it) to dampen the sound on the upstroke. It works well but it changes the feel of the switch.

On Topre switches, it takes a lot more work, but the result is really worth it and it does not change much the feel of the switch, which is a good thing.

I did not invent the method. I have read it from several sources, when it was applied to the HHKB. I have just applied it to the FC660C and as I have not seen it documented anywhere else, I thought I should do it.

To silence the board, you will need to disassemble it almost completely. It's not too difficult, but it takes some time. The mod took me 4 hours, but I did some tests during this time (with O-rings and soft landing pads). I think it can be done in 2 or 3 hours.

In the following video, you can hear the difference between silenced keys (the two top rows of the keyboard) and the non-silenced ones (two bottom rows):

(This may play upside down, and I'm sorry if it does)
http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4


For the mod, you will need mainly the soft landing pads sold by EliteKeyboards, or some equivalent.

Here is a link to the product:
  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads&pid=sl120_cs

These pads are normally used in Cherry MX switches to dampen the sound of the bottoming-out (downstroke). Here, we are going to use them to dampen the sound of the upstroke in Topre switches.

O-rings will not work for the purpose. I'm going to explain why later.

Ideally, you will also need some stabilizer grease (high-viscosity lubricant), like this one from EliteKeyboard:
  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube


NOTE: the feel of the Topre switches is SLIGHTLY altered by the mod. The travel of the keys is very slightly shortened. In my opinion, the pleasure of typing on Topre switches is still 100% there, and the reduction of the upstroke noise makes the board sound much better: the board just "Thocks" and doesn't "Clack" anymore. However you may want to try the mod on a single row of the keyboard at first, just to see if you like it… Anyway the mod is 100% reversible. You can go back to the original feel of the keyboard at any time if you don't like the mod.


Here is the procedure:

1. Unplug then disassemble the keyboard. You will first need to remove the screw located under the circular "Quality Control" sticker. It's under the keyboard, approximately under the Enter key. Then you need to un-clip the top part of the case. When you look at the bottom of the keyboard, you will see the holes where you can insert a flat screwdriver. You may need several of them inserted at the same time to be able to remove the top of the case (I have been able to do it with a flat screwdriver and a plastic ruler but it was no fun).

When the top of the case has been removed, the keys and the PCB remain connected to the bottom part with a flat (ribbon) cable. You need to unplug this cable. It has a small connector that can be plugged and unplugged many times without damage. You will need a small flat screwdriver to take to two parts of the plug apart. I forgot to take pictures of this stage, sorry about this.


2. Once the connector has been unplugged, the work on the mechanical switches can start. At the back of the PCB you will find approximately 25 screws (!). The silver ones are screwed into the metal plate, the black ones are screwed into the plastic housing of the keys. Remove them all. You don't really need to remember where they come from: the black ones are marked with a white arrow on the PCB, the silver ones are marked with a circle. There is only one size for each type, so just unscrew them all and be confident that it will be easy to put them back later.

36989-0

(I had already removed some screws)


3. Now you have two parts: the PCB with the cloud of boobs, and the metal plate with the plastic switch housings. Be careful not to remove the rubber domes. They are lightly glued to the PCB, but they can be removed a little bit too easily. I know, because it happened to me, and then it was not easy to put back the dome and the conical spring exactly where they had to be. You are going to work only of the metal plate part, but you will have to put it back on the PCB sometimes and that's when you could move a rubber dome by accident.

36991-1


4. In this picture you can see the switch housings.

36993-2


Inside every of them you can see the plunger, a small part with two rectangular holes. They also have two small legs on opposite corners. We are going to put a soft landing pad on the stem of every plunger, so it will look like this, seen from the side:

36995-3


And seen from the top:

36997-4


The idea is that when the plunger goes up during the upstroke, it will not hit the plastic housing. The landing pad will absorb the shock, and reduce almost completely the "Clack" on the upstroke. The travel of the key will be reduced by less than a millimeter, which does not affect much the feel of the Topre switches.

Some of you may ask if it is also possible to use O-rings. I have tried, and the answer is: almost. Here is how an O-ring on the plunger looks like:

36999-5


When the O-ring sits like that, it works well. However, O-rings tend to have a life of their own on lubricated Topre stems, and after a while some end up like this:

37001-6


And when it happens, it is bad because the key cannot go back all the way up. You get a dead key. This has not happened to me with landing pads, so I recommend landing pads.

What you need to do right now is put a landing pad on the stem of every plunger. But to do this you need to remove the keycaps. We could have done this before disassembling the keyboard, but I chose to do it while the keyboard was disassembled because I wanted to test what I was doing and that implied removing and putting back the keycaps several times. That's how I was able to test O-rings and find out that they did not do the job.

To remove the keycaps, just put the metal plate back on the PCB. The rubber domes will push the plungers and you will be able to use a keycap remover.


5. Now we need to eject the plungers from the plastic housings. Do this only for the keys that do not have a stabilizer (we will see how to handle them later). When the keycaps have been removed, you need to push quite hard with either the tip of your finger or with a screwdriver on the plunger to eject it:

37003-7


The plunger will pop out of the housing and you will be able to equip it with a soft landing pad as pictured above. Then you put back the plunger inside the housing.

IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM CAPTAIN OBVIOUS: two opposite corners of the landing pads must be aligned with the legs of the plunger. If they are not, the landing pad will block the plunger and the key will not work.


6. The keys that have a stabilizer are more difficult to mod. In this picture you see 3 of them:

37005-8


They need to be completely disassembled and ideally even removed from the metal plate.

They are inserted in the metal plate by force, so you can remove them by inserting a small flat screwdriver between their plastic housing and the plate.

Here is the housing of a key with a stabilizer, removed from the plate:

37007-9


Around the hole in the metal plate, you can see that I have applied some stabilizer grease (high viscosity grease). This will reduce some noise caused by the play between the housing and the metal plate. To be honest I'm not sure this step is required, so maybe you do not need to remove the housings from the metal plate.

To disassemble the stabilizer, use a screwdriver to unclip the middle of the wire out of the housing. You will then be able to disengage the bended ends. Only then will you be able to remove the plunger.

You can see that the plunger of the stabilized keys is different: it is much longer. This will force us to use more than one landing pad. In the image above you can see one possible way to do it: two halves of a landing pad are glued inside the housing. However, this is not my preferred method. Below you will see a better way to do it:

37009-10


Two halves of a landing pad are glued directly on the plunger so they extend the one that is placed around the stem. This prevent the right and left part of the long plunger to hit the inside of the housing on the upstroke.

When you have done this, you can reassemble the stabilized key housing and force it back into the plate hole. It is also a good idea to add some stabilizer grease at both ends of the wire.

Fortunately, the space bar has a stabilizer wire but is very easy to mod. You just need to put a landing pad around the stem of the plunger and put some grease at the end of the wire. Please note that the space bar has a special spring, just don't forget to put it back in place before inserting the space bar keycap.


When you have put landing pads on all the plungers, you can just reassemble the keyboard and enjoy the sound!

Before you screw back all the keys on the PCB, it may be a good idea to reconnect the ribbon cable, put the plate with the keys and keycaps on the PCB and connect the USB cable of the keyboard to test if every key is still working. If a key does not work (probably because a rubber dome has been moved), at least you will not have to remove all the screws again.


Credits (these were about silencing the HHKB):
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.0
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34972.0
  http://www.key-bored.net/hhkb2-silencing-mod/
 
                         
My apologies for all "prior art" I have failed to mention.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 March 2015, 20:59:57 by spiceBar »

Offline Sniping

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 21:07:45 »
Great job on the very thorough guide! Is there any way you can re-record the sound of the board though? It seems really quiet for some reason and I can't really make out the sound of the silenced board.
.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              swaq avatar creds

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 21:12:43 »
Great job on the very thorough guide! Is there any way you can re-record the sound of the board though? It seems really quiet for some reason and I can't really make out the sound of the silenced board.

OK, I'm going to normalize the sound without degrading the quality.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 21:30:51 »
Done. Sound amplified by +12dB.

Offline o2dazone

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 16:34:26 »
Those pads look pretty thick. Any noticeable difference in the throw of the switch? Looks great btw, thanks for taking the time to document another silencing mod :)

edit: I should read rather than just look at pretty pictures. Well done!
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 October 2013, 16:42:25 by o2dazone »

Offline longweight

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 16:39:26 »
Nice mod!

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 16:55:36 »
Good mod of a terribly outdated/ flawed staggered qwerty keyboard..

Fantastic guide.

Thanks


Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 17:13:55 »
I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

Offline TimIsABat

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 22:48:22 »
I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

The beginning looks like you are blessing the keyboards with clicks.
Leopold FC660M MX Reds | Poker X 62g  Ergoclear modded and plate modded (out of comission) | IBM Model M 1391401 | Dell AT101 | Compaq RT101 | HHKB Pro 2 | Ducky Shine 4 Community Edition

Main driver : HHKB Pro 2

Offline s0ckpupp3t

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 23:49:00 »
The beginning looks like you are blessing the keyboards with clicks.

+1 LOL

Offline tbc

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 00:35:25 »
can someone with the type-s confirm the mod sounds like the HHKB type-s?

the sound difference in this video is much more extreme than in other youtube videos (although it seems more than likely this is due to compression)
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Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 05:17:22 »
can someone with the type-s confirm the mod sounds like the HHKB type-s?

the sound difference in this video is much more extreme than in other youtube videos (although it seems more than likely this is due to compression)

There is no audio compression in my recordings. By this I mean no compression of the dynamic of the sound (difference between loud and soft sounds).

The sound difference between silenced and non-silenced is indeed amazing, but please note that I have used soft landing pads to dampen the upstroke. In all the other mods that I have been able to see (or listen to), dental rubber bands or specially crafted thinner rings had been used.

I have noticed that my mod seems to produce a more effective silencing that dental rubber bands. If it is, then it is by accident. I have used soft landing pads because I did not have dental rubber bands, and because O-rings seemed to cause problems with some keys getting stuck.

It would be very interesting if someone who has both soft landing pads and dental rubber bands tried the mod to confirm that soft landing pads are more effective at silencing the keyboard's upstrokes.

Offline o2dazone

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:37:20 »
can someone with the type-s confirm the mod sounds like the HHKB type-s?

the sound difference in this video is much more extreme than in other youtube videos (although it seems more than likely this is due to compression)

MMB can - he's got both.
I also got a chance to use his (we work at the same place, so I got a chance to compare the modded hhkb to his stock type s). the modded hhkb is quieter and feels more solid (in my opinion). He also has a modded 55g hhkb with lube and dental bands. feels incredibly well built compared to the type s (again, my opinion)
« Last Edit: Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:38:54 by o2dazone »

Offline o2dazone

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 10:37:47 »
I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

from thock to thump - I love it - nice job spiceBar

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 15:25:26 »
I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

from thock to thump - I love it - nice job spiceBar

Thanks!

I'm modding the Realforce right now, still using the landing pads (I had ordered 4x120 pieces, so I have more than enough). Should be finished in less than one hour.

Offline Moosecraft

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 15:31:28 »
What ever happened to dental bands?
I thought that was the best way to silence topre boards.
I am bigfatmc over at other places!

Offline TimIsABat

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 16:38:18 »
I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

from thock to thump - I love it - nice job spiceBar

Thanks!

I'm modding the Realforce right now, still using the landing pads (I had ordered 4x120 pieces, so I have more than enough). Should be finished in less than one hour.

Wanna send me some landing pads fo my hhkb free ;)?
Leopold FC660M MX Reds | Poker X 62g  Ergoclear modded and plate modded (out of comission) | IBM Model M 1391401 | Dell AT101 | Compaq RT101 | HHKB Pro 2 | Ducky Shine 4 Community Edition

Main driver : HHKB Pro 2

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 18:28:03 »
I am having trouble with the soft landing pads in the Realforce 88UB.

They still work perfectly in the Leopold FC660C and give it an amazing "Thump"ฎ sound, but in the Realforce I have a few keys that do not work anymore, most probably because the landing pads are slightly too thick for this model.

I'm going to disassemble the Realforce (again!) and try to find a fix. I really want to get this "Thump" from the Realforce as well!

I'll keep you informed of my progress.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 21:32:37 »
OK I finally modded the RealForce using the same technique as the FC660C: soft landing pads.

The RealForce sounds - as expected - absolutely great: "Thump Thump Thump" without any plastic "Klang" on the upstroke.

That's not only a really classy sound, but it's also a now a really stealth keyboard. You have the pleasure of the Topre feel and you will not disturb anyone around.

The problem with the RealForce is that the tolerance on the thickness of the landing pads is smaller. I had actually only one key with such a tolerance problem. To solve it, I used a hot iron (on "silk" setting) to crush a landing pad. I put the landing pad between two sheets of paper and pressed on the sandwich with the iron. I repeated several times until the landing pad was noticeably thinner. That solved the problem with the key.

The other problem I had was on all the keys with stabilizers. In my OP I described how I put one landing pad on the stem and I glue two halves around it to extend it. This does not work as well in the RealForce. So on the stabilized keys, you just put one landing pad on the stem, as on any other key, and you are done with it.

Now I guess you guys are waiting for another video comparing the silenced FC660C with the Silenced RealForce...

Offline o2dazone

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 03 October 2013, 16:15:36 »
If you wanted to silence an HHKB, but wanted to keep the feeling as true to original as possible, would you suggest your ironing method on the landing pads? Or is the feeling still noticeable even on the flattened pads?

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 03 October 2013, 17:29:03 »
If you wanted to silence an HHKB, but wanted to keep the feeling as true to original as possible, would you suggest your ironing method on the landing pads? Or is the feeling still noticeable even on the flattened pads?

I do not own an HHKB, but I believe that Topre switches are the same in any keyboard that uses them (you can see it from the pictures of all these keyboards internals).

I would indeed recommend the ironing method. It's a bit more of work, but from my experience the slimmed landing pads do a better job of preserving the feel of the Topre switches and the sound dampening on the upstroke is exactly the same (compared to a non-ironed landing pad).

Once ironed as I did, the width of the landing pad is slightly more than 0.5mm. The original landing pad is closer to 1mm. The half millimeter you are saving makes a small difference in feel, and reduces the risk that a key stay always actuated (which is my case happened only once out of 88 keys and was easily fixed).

I still hope that someone will try both rubber bands and landing pads in a single keyboard so we can finally know if landing pads do a better job at silencing. I suspect they do because the landing pads are made from a sheet of rubber foam (soft), while the rubber bands are plain rubber (hard).

If they don't, I guess that rubber bands is an easier method.

Offline Netbootz

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 28 October 2013, 15:17:07 »
...

Now I guess you guys are waiting for another video comparing the silenced FC660C with the Silenced RealForce...

Please yes! Post vid/audio.  The other videos already sold me your upstroke damp method - I have the FC660C and the RF 87u too so this is exactly my situation.

Offline divito

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 28 October 2013, 16:11:32 »
Silenced keyboards sound so dead to me :( I don't think I could ever do that to one of my babies.
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Offline Neo.X

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 28 October 2013, 20:08:02 »
very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing :thumb:
All those keyboards will be lost in time....

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 28 October 2013, 23:53:06 »
very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing :thumb:

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Offline Netbootz

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 29 October 2013, 19:43:14 »
that is a clear difference - wow.  God job and thanks for posting the how-to

Offline takethree

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 10 December 2013, 23:36:27 »
very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing :thumb:

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Apologies if it has been posted before but has the guide to "silence" the Realforce 87U been posted? I can't seem to find it. I would like to do the same for my Realforce 86U but I've never done anything more than changing keycaps. Any soldering involved?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 December 2013, 23:39:16 by takethree »

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 10 December 2013, 23:52:05 »
very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing :thumb:

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Apologies if it has been posted before but has the guide to "silence" the Realforce 87U been posted? I can't seem to find it. I would like to do the same for my Realforce 86U but I've never done anything more than changing keycaps. Any soldering involved?

Thanks.

I have postponed releasing this guide due to a perceived lack of interest.

No soldering. You basically do the same as in the guide for the FC660C, except that you need to use a clothing iron to slim the landing pads down to half their initial width (or just a little more). That's all.

Use a sheet of paper to sandwich a landing pad. Apply the iron and press for a given number of seconds. The time depends on the iron's temperature. You need to try first on a few landing pads until you find the right temperature and the right time.

Nothing really complicated. Once you have found the temperature and the time, it's just a lot of work to slim them all down, and then to install them. But the result is amazing. Now that I own an HHKB Type-S, I can tell you the mod is much better than a Type-S.

Offline takethree

  • Posts: 20
Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 11 December 2013, 00:33:38 »
very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing :thumb:

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Apologies if it has been posted before but has the guide to "silence" the Realforce 87U been posted? I can't seem to find it. I would like to do the same for my Realforce 86U but I've never done anything more than changing keycaps. Any soldering involved?

Thanks.

I have postponed releasing this guide due to a perceived lack of interest.

No soldering. You basically do the same as in the guide for the FC660C, except that you need to use a clothing iron to slim the landing pads down to half their initial width (or just a little more). That's all.

Use a sheet of paper to sandwich a landing pad. Apply the iron and press for a given number of seconds. The time depends on the iron's temperature. You need to try first on a few landing pads until you find the right temperature and the right time.

Nothing really complicated. Once you have found the temperature and the time, it's just a lot of work to slim them all down, and then to install them. But the result is amazing. Now that I own an HHKB Type-S, I can tell you the mod is much better than a Type-S.

Thanks. I'll see if I can gather up the courage later to dismantle it.

Offline Air tree

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 11 December 2013, 00:39:06 »
very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing :thumb:

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Apologies if it has been posted before but has the guide to "silence" the Realforce 87U been posted? I can't seem to find it. I would like to do the same for my Realforce 86U but I've never done anything more than changing keycaps. Any soldering involved?

Thanks.

I have postponed releasing this guide due to a perceived lack of interest.

No soldering. You basically do the same as in the guide for the FC660C, except that you need to use a clothing iron to slim the landing pads down to half their initial width (or just a little more). That's all.

Use a sheet of paper to sandwich a landing pad. Apply the iron and press for a given number of seconds. The time depends on the iron's temperature. You need to try first on a few landing pads until you find the right temperature and the right time.

Nothing really complicated. Once you have found the temperature and the time, it's just a lot of work to slim them all down, and then to install them. But the result is amazing. Now that I own an HHKB Type-S, I can tell you the mod is much better than a Type-S.
Hmm I guess I will be doing the landing pad method then.

My HHKB is going to sound like Topre sex.
« Last Edit: Sat, 15 February 2014, 22:50:01 by Air tree »

Offline intelli78

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 23 February 2014, 06:12:24 »
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Offline Slowdiving

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 01 March 2014, 21:40:05 »
Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 02 March 2014, 04:47:18 »
Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Offline Slowdiving

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 02 March 2014, 08:00:58 »
Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Yes: EK landing pad and an iron.  Hopefully someday they'll offer slimmer ones so we can omit the ironing step.   Like you, I only had one key act weird (g) when I went to test it (chattering).  Luckily, it smoothed itself out.
I noticed you mentioned lubing the spacebar on intelli's thread.  Do you have any advice for where to get this lube?  Also, is this applicable for the LCtrl key?  I found that it has an odd arrangement that doesn't allow a pad to attach anywhere.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 02 March 2014, 12:51:27 »
Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Yes: EK landing pad and an iron.  Hopefully someday they'll offer slimmer ones so we can omit the ironing step.   Like you, I only had one key act weird (g) when I went to test it (chattering).  Luckily, it smoothed itself out.
I noticed you mentioned lubing the spacebar on intelli's thread.  Do you have any advice for where to get this lube?  Also, is this applicable for the LCtrl key?  I found that it has an odd arrangement that doesn't allow a pad to attach anywhere.

Some slimmed down landing pads tend to fold once they are inserted around a plunger. It may be the cause of the trouble with your G key. You must be careful about this. If the landing pad folds, remove it, flip it, and insert it again. It should be OK then. Once the plunger is back into the switch housing, the landing pad will be compressed by the spring and the dome, so over time it will stay flat and never fold. But if it has folded before you reassembled the switch, it will not unfold by itself.

About the space bar: you insert a landing pad exactly like in any other key. You use EK's blue grease at every point where the stabilizer wire touches plastic. You may want to add non-slimmed down landing pads under the space bar, on the two stabilizers inserts.

All the grease does is to fill the space where the wire can move between the plastic holes. This stops the wire from hitting the plastic and making noise. There is actually no lubing required for these wires (unless they squeak), but the grease acts as a kind of never drying glue.

Never put grease on the sliders, especially not the blue or red one from EK, that would ruin the switch (they would become extremely sticky and you would have to clean them to remove the grease).

Don't put grease in the Ctrl key. It comes pre-lubed. You need to cut two small pieces out of a landing pad and glue them inside the switch housing instead of putting a landing pad around the slider (doing so jams the switch, as you have noticed). I have used neoprene glue, I'm not sure it's the best one for this use, but it worked well. You need first to remove the lube at the points where you will put glue, but that's obvious. That's all you must do on the Ctrl key. It will never feel perfect, but you can't do any better as fas as I know.

Offline intelli78

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 19:45:24 »
I finally got the soft landing pads and redid my FC660C. I ironed the pads-- had to use a lot more heat/force than expected. For each batch of ~6, I had my iron on max power, applying full arm strength for a good 20 seconds. This yielded ~0.4mm pads that do not change the keyfeel at all, and do not cause any false keypresses. The sound is the same as the video I posted before.

Couple of other notes that may be helpful for others--

1. The holes in the soft landing pads are too small, but the pads stretch and can be smashed down such that they don't bunch up around the switch cylinders. I used the tip of a precision screwdriver to smash the soft landing pads down around the cylinders.

2. Where spiceBar glued landing pads onto stabilized keys, I instead used strips of 3 landing pads (they come perforated; I tore off 3x1 strips). This required trimming around the edges but worked well ;no glue required.
« Last Edit: Wed, 05 March 2014, 19:48:11 by intelli78 »
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Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 21:27:09 »
I finally got the soft landing pads and redid my FC660C. I ironed the pads-- had to use a lot more heat/force than expected. For each batch of ~6, I had my iron on max power, applying full arm strength for a good 20 seconds. This yielded ~0.4mm pads that do not change the keyfeel at all, and do not cause any false keypresses. The sound is the same as the video I posted before.

Couple of other notes that may be helpful for others--

1. The holes in the soft landing pads are too small, but the pads stretch and can be smashed down such that they don't bunch up around the switch cylinders. I used the tip of a precision screwdriver to smash the soft landing pads down around the cylinders.

2. Where spiceBar glued landing pads onto stabilized keys, I instead used strips of 3 landing pads (they come perforated; I tore off 3x1 strips). This required trimming around the edges but worked well ;no glue required.

#2 is a nice idea, but I forgot to mention (or maybe I already mentioned it) that for the next Topre keyboards that I have done I have changed my method for stabilized keys. These keys are actually just larger keys, because on Topre they don't need any stabilizing mechanism (except the space bar). So I did them exactly like any other key, with just one landing pad on the stem, saving me some significant time. The result was OK, and a mod without glue is always better, as it makes going back to the initial state easier.

It is possible that your method gives a better sound dampening, and clearly it does not consume more time than a single landing pad on the stem, so it's interesting.

Offline intelli78

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 21:41:40 »
I tried putting one landing pad on, but the damping did not seem very effective. Granted, this was before I screwed the keyboard back together, so it's possible it would have changed once everything was nice and tight. In any case, it's in good shape now. I did, however, manage to lose the single screw for the case. Gotta figure out the part I need from Ace.
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Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 05 March 2014, 22:06:24 »
I tried putting one landing pad on, but the damping did not seem very effective. Granted, this was before I screwed the keyboard back together, so it's possible it would have changed once everything was nice and tight. In any case, it's in good shape now. I did, however, manage to lose the single screw for the case. Gotta figure out the part I need from Ace.

The problem I have noticed with the large keys is that the switch housing moves inside its plate hole. That's where the residual noise comes from on these keys once you have silenced them with landing pads. It took me a while and several disassembling/reassembling of the FC660C to figure this out (and you know it's a pain! :) ).

The Realforces have exactly the same problem. It's not a loud noise, it's just a tiny click, but once you have silenced the keyboard, it becomes noticeable. The HHKB does not have the problem, as there is no individual switch housing in it.

You can check this even when the keyboard is fully assembled. Just remove the keycaps of a large key and try to move the switch housing.

When I first noticed the noise, I thought I had not tightened the screws enough. But tightening them does not solve the problem.

To eliminate this noise, you use sticky silicon grease (like EK blue) that you put around the plate holes of the large keys. I have documented this in my OP. Unfortunately this can be done only when the keyboard is disassembled.

Offline Slowdiving

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 06 March 2014, 07:21:48 »
Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Yes: EK landing pad and an iron.  Hopefully someday they'll offer slimmer ones so we can omit the ironing step.   Like you, I only had one key act weird (g) when I went to test it (chattering).  Luckily, it smoothed itself out.
I noticed you mentioned lubing the spacebar on intelli's thread.  Do you have any advice for where to get this lube?  Also, is this applicable for the LCtrl key?  I found that it has an odd arrangement that doesn't allow a pad to attach anywhere.

Some slimmed down landing pads tend to fold once they are inserted around a plunger. It may be the cause of the trouble with your G key. You must be careful about this. If the landing pad folds, remove it, flip it, and insert it again. It should be OK then. Once the plunger is back into the switch housing, the landing pad will be compressed by the spring and the dome, so over time it will stay flat and never fold. But if it has folded before you reassembled the switch, it will not unfold by itself.

About the space bar: you insert a landing pad exactly like in any other key. You use EK's blue grease at every point where the stabilizer wire touches plastic. You may want to add non-slimmed down landing pads under the space bar, on the two stabilizers inserts.

All the grease does is to fill the space where the wire can move between the plastic holes. This stops the wire from hitting the plastic and making noise. There is actually no lubing required for these wires (unless they squeak), but the grease acts as a kind of never drying glue.

Never put grease on the sliders, especially not the blue or red one from EK, that would ruin the switch (they would become extremely sticky and you would have to clean them to remove the grease).

Don't put grease in the Ctrl key. It comes pre-lubed. You need to cut two small pieces out of a landing pad and glue them inside the switch housing instead of putting a landing pad around the slider (doing so jams the switch, as you have noticed). I have used neoprene glue, I'm not sure it's the best one for this use, but it worked well. You need first to remove the lube at the points where you will put glue, but that's obvious. That's all you must do on the Ctrl key. It will never feel perfect, but you can't do any better as fas as I know.


Thanks for your help and for the tut.  The key distance on my mod is definitely shorter.  I have the feeling that I should re do all of them after reading

This yielded ~0.4mm pads that do not change the keyfeel at all, and do not cause any false keypresses.




Offline spiceBar

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 06 March 2014, 08:38:11 »
Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Yes: EK landing pad and an iron.  Hopefully someday they'll offer slimmer ones so we can omit the ironing step.   Like you, I only had one key act weird (g) when I went to test it (chattering).  Luckily, it smoothed itself out.
I noticed you mentioned lubing the spacebar on intelli's thread.  Do you have any advice for where to get this lube?  Also, is this applicable for the LCtrl key?  I found that it has an odd arrangement that doesn't allow a pad to attach anywhere.

Some slimmed down landing pads tend to fold once they are inserted around a plunger. It may be the cause of the trouble with your G key. You must be careful about this. If the landing pad folds, remove it, flip it, and insert it again. It should be OK then. Once the plunger is back into the switch housing, the landing pad will be compressed by the spring and the dome, so over time it will stay flat and never fold. But if it has folded before you reassembled the switch, it will not unfold by itself.

About the space bar: you insert a landing pad exactly like in any other key. You use EK's blue grease at every point where the stabilizer wire touches plastic. You may want to add non-slimmed down landing pads under the space bar, on the two stabilizers inserts.

All the grease does is to fill the space where the wire can move between the plastic holes. This stops the wire from hitting the plastic and making noise. There is actually no lubing required for these wires (unless they squeak), but the grease acts as a kind of never drying glue.

Never put grease on the sliders, especially not the blue or red one from EK, that would ruin the switch (they would become extremely sticky and you would have to clean them to remove the grease).

Don't put grease in the Ctrl key. It comes pre-lubed. You need to cut two small pieces out of a landing pad and glue them inside the switch housing instead of putting a landing pad around the slider (doing so jams the switch, as you have noticed). I have used neoprene glue, I'm not sure it's the best one for this use, but it worked well. You need first to remove the lube at the points where you will put glue, but that's obvious. That's all you must do on the Ctrl key. It will never feel perfect, but you can't do any better as fas as I know.


Thanks for your help and for the tut.  The key distance on my mod is definitely shorter.  I have the feeling that I should re do all of them after reading

This yielded ~0.4mm pads that do not change the keyfeel at all, and do not cause any false keypresses.

It's a matter of taste. I did not redo my FC660C and my Realforce 88. They have non slimmed down landing pads inside, which works because they have 45g springs/domes. Consequently, the dome collapse is less pronounced, but I don't mind.

On the Realforce 87U, which has lighter switches (down to 30g on some keys), ironing the pads was absolutely mandatory. If I had to redo it, I would definitely slim them down harder, to 0.4-0.3mm. 0.5mm works, but hides a little bit of the dome collapse as well, taking a little bit of the switch snappiness.

On the other hand the Thock is still there absolutely intact, and the switches feel very very smooth and silent. I'll leave them as they are.

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 18:13:43 »
Has anyone tried the firm (gray) landing pads for this mod as opposed to the soft (black) landing pads? Thanks.

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 18:51:27 »

Has anyone tried the firm (gray) landing pads for this mod as opposed to the soft (black) landing pads? Thanks.

I believe the whole point of using the soft ones is that they can be ironed down. Presumably the firm pads are denser, and thus cannot be thinned like the soft ones can. I don't believe they'd work well with this mod.
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Offline intelli78

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 19:31:57 »

Has anyone tried the firm (gray) landing pads for this mod as opposed to the soft (black) landing pads? Thanks.

I believe the whole point of using the soft ones is that they can be ironed down. Presumably the firm pads are denser, and thus cannot be thinned like the soft ones can. I don't believe they'd work well with this mod.

Correct. You don't stand to gain anything from using the gray pads. You want the pads as soft and thin as possible, otherwise you will go to false keypress city.
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Offline riotonthebay

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 30 March 2014, 08:20:28 »
I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.
Always happy to chat – send me a PM

Offline epzy

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 30 March 2014, 08:32:48 »
I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

 :thumb: :thumb:

Offline Air tree

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 30 March 2014, 08:39:27 »
I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.
Any chance of a sound test? Just want to hear how this mod sounds on a case mounted board vs plate.

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 30 March 2014, 08:47:37 »
I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.
Any chance of a sound test? Just want to hear how this mod sounds on a case mounted board vs plate.

It doesn't sound noticeably different to me than SpiceBar's videos. I don't have good sound recording equipment either, so I don't think a comparison would be particularly valuable here.
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Offline 1pq

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 30 March 2014, 09:49:48 »
I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

I'm wondering your thoughts on how it affects feel. Did you notice any decrease in tactility?
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Offline riotonthebay

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Re: [MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 30 March 2014, 09:58:17 »
I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

I'm wondering your thoughts on how it affects feel. Did you notice any decrease in tactility?

The HHKB is a strange keyboard when it comes to tactility. In my opinion, the feel of the switch is defined by the sudden collapse of the dome and the reasonably soft bottom-out which is a product of the HHKB being a plastic case-mount board. Neither of these things are affected in the slightest.

There is of course a tactile bump as well at the very top of the switch throw, and I cannot remember it being any different before I silenced it. There's a chance that it is less tactile, but any difference that I cannot remember is negligible in my opinion :).

All in all, I'm very happy that I made this switch. A little while ago I started the mod but stopped after not particularly caring for the modded top-row, but I'm now attributing that to be being over-excited by Topre in the first place and not wanting to do anything that would mess with the feels of the cup rubber. There's a big difference between typing on only one row of modded switches and typing on an entire keyboard, and now that I've done it to the entire keyboard I wouldn't go back.
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