Author Topic: Enough is ENOUGH  (Read 14953 times)

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Offline Surefoot

  • Posts: 243
Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 10:07:23 »
Im a spherical profile enthusiast, and expensive ABS sets are only appealing to me due to the nice colors, as they'll shine and lose their nice looks over time.
To the very well detailed posts made before i'll just add (in random order):
- XDAS profile (1.5mm+ PBT, dye sub, very smooth). Typing on one right now, it's a real pleasure for fingertips. XDA haters will hate even more. Dunno if we can somehow convince the chinese company that makes these to do more for us...
- more KAT profile would be a very good thing. It's so thick, smooth and comfortable..
- i am starting to see double shot PBT SA sets on aliexpress (backlighting compatible) so at least some chinese companies are getting there.. Proves that it's possible to start with, so nice colorways can be a thing :)
- and there's KAM profile too (cant wait for KAM Wraith)

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 10:10:31 »
I think they should do more group buys in G20 profile.

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 10:40:42 »
I think they should do more group buys in G20 profile.

G20 has been out of production for a little while.

Quote
Many of you are wondering what happened to the G20 keysets for Semiotic and Stealth. G20 was an experiment. We wanted to test market acceptance of a fairly unique shape and profile using some prototype tooling. The results were very positive and we are now in the process of designing and building new G20 production tooling. We will continue to run G20 blanks on the prototype tooling but, due to the cosmetic challenges during printing, we will not be sublimating keysets from this prototype tooling. I'm hesitant to say when the new tooling will be production ready. Our track record for release of new tooling (SA-P, DSS) has been less than stellar, but we are hoping to have pre-production sets available by the summer of 2019.
Quote

https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
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Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 10:46:21 »

Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: thick DCS.

The really old Wyse terminal keycaps were a thick ABS doubleshot. It's a fun vintage profile that's sculpted kind of like OEM or MT3 are.

Except the bottom row is a bit of a disaster, because few want to type on an angled spacebar like that. So it would have to ship with a conventional spacebar option.

The legend quality of the Wyse terminal keycaps was spectacular. Better than Cherry. I'm typing on them right now. Nice Gorton Modified font, extremely crisp and high-contrast (if desired), even 30 years later. And they sound better than Cherry.

So, to meet your criteria of thick, great legends, good sounding, vintage appeal and Western manufacturer, I'm kind of surprised they haven't revived thick DCS. I doubt SP has the molds anymore, but they do have the design and license, presumably. And the credibility. Just the bottom row would have to be altered a bit, or optional Cherry spacebar. Again, I'm doing it right now.

(Basically, I am agreeing with you strongly here. They need to bring back Comptec DCS. There's kind of a lack-of-vision at SP right now. 'Gee, GMK is raking in the money with 500,000 different custom sets backlogged for years. Do we have any kind of equivalent vintage low-profile thick ABS keycap that people could make colourful designs in? Hmm, I guess not.')

+1, happy someone sees the light here ;D

Imagine if all the time and money they spent on G20 and SP-P they spent on reviving OG DCS instead; even DCS can wait now that we have KAT.

For what it's worth, I love how steeply contoured the bottom DCS row is, but for mass appeal I agree that the spacebar at least should probably be flattened out.
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 11:57:54 »
Yes, exactly. Thick DCS has a positive reputation among those who know it in the enthusiast community. It would have its advocates on-line.

Plus, it's extremely vintage and retro. We're talking Comptec, which is Pre-SP. And Deskthority loves the Wyse boards, if their Wiki is any indication.

It's an Ur-Keycap.

Imagine making SoWaRe on thick DCS. It could be one of their first new sets. And with way more cred and appeal than GMK SoWaRe.

Also, yes, Cherry-profile spacebar does work well together with DCS bottom row, as I am doing it right now. It could be an option you select at purchase: Cherry spacebar or DCS spacebar.

Offline nguyenhimself

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Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 12:05:36 »
who cares

just don't buy what you don't want
Good to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.
That’s a valid point tho. If you don’t plan to buy those GMK sets, why do you care?
Right now I only participate in 2 ICs: GMK Hammerhead and GMK Unit-01, because only those 2 sets suit my tastes in colors.
All the other dozen ICs, they might as well not exist to me.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 May 2019, 02:08:06 by nguyenhimself »

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 22:43:05 »
Yes, exactly. Thick DCS has a positive reputation among those who know it in the enthusiast community. It would have its advocates on-line.

Plus, it's extremely vintage and retro. We're talking Comptec, which is Pre-SP. And Deskthority loves the Wyse boards, if their Wiki is any indication.

It's an Ur-Keycap.

Imagine making SoWaRe on thick DCS. It could be one of their first new sets. And with way more cred and appeal than GMK SoWaRe.

Also, yes, Cherry-profile spacebar does work well together with DCS bottom row, as I am doing it right now. It could be an option you select at purchase: Cherry spacebar or DCS spacebar.

Re: SoWaRe, how about just running the actual Wyse colors? There's a photo on the DT wiki with near-perfect matches from SP color chips.

I also misunderstood what you meant about the bottom row. I'm not sure SP will ever be able to produce a true Cherry profile spaceber, but I agree 100%, Cherry profile spacebar goes great with DCS, both in looks and feel.
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Offline depletedvespene

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 16 May 2019, 14:48:08 »
GMK Enough is ENOUGH keyset when?

That keyset should be composed entirely of ISO Enter keys.

Online deacon

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 16 May 2019, 15:04:55 »
That keyset should be composed entirely of ISO Enter keys.

Someone designed the board already...

http://www.40percent.club/2018/11/i-s-hole.html

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 16 May 2019, 15:20:59 »
That keyset should be composed entirely of ISO Enter keys.

Someone designed the board already...

http://www.40percent.club/2018/11/i-s-hole.html

Too small.

I have a tongue-in-cheek layout designed (but shall never see the light of day!) that uses ISO Enter keys and specialty 3×2U keys. It's an ortholinear keyboard for giants.

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 16 May 2019, 15:51:21 »
I think they should do more group buys in G20 profile.

G20 has been out of production for a little while.

Quote
Many of you are wondering what happened to the G20 keysets for Semiotic and Stealth. G20 was an experiment. We wanted to test market acceptance of a fairly unique shape and profile using some prototype tooling. The results were very positive and we are now in the process of designing and building new G20 production tooling. We will continue to run G20 blanks on the prototype tooling but, due to the cosmetic challenges during printing, we will not be sublimating keysets from this prototype tooling. I'm hesitant to say when the new tooling will be production ready. Our track record for release of new tooling (SA-P, DSS) has been less than stellar, but we are hoping to have pre-production sets available by the summer of 2019.
Quote

https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/

D:
I am a g20 lover.  Maybe i might be able to make my own G20 keycaps someday..

Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 18 May 2019, 14:20:37 »
I love GMK, have not seen a font and quality that I would prefer over it. When someone makes something that would appeal to me more, I will buy that instead.
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Offline RominRonin

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 17 June 2019, 18:37:43 »
Gmk really does satisfy everyone’s needs for quality and reliability... other competitors such like SP take too long because they don’t have the establishments for it. There is only one way for gmk sets to diminish, if pbt set makers like enjoypbt find a way to incorporate more colors into the sets.


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This is not a matter of manufacturer, but keycap profiles. Everyone wants to run their sets in Cherry ABS for some reason, and there are plenty of great profiles out there not being utilized. Everything does NOT need to be cherry profile, or even doubleshot ABS. Variety is good.

People generally seem to want some combination of the following, in no particular order:

  • Bright color options, including the ability to do light-on-dark
  • Crisp clean legends
  • Durability to scuffs
  • Not too tall, both for aesthetic reasons and for typing comfort (low wobble, don't need to hold hand way up high over the board or use a tall wrist rest)
  • Nice wide typing surface with relatively small gaps
  • Some curvature in the tops (i.e. not flat tops)
  • Sculpted profile
  • That classic Cherry look
  • Thick plastic for deeper sound and smoother/softer feel
  • Reliable manufacturing with good QC
  • Easy to get in touch with and work with (as a Westerner)

GMK ticks all of those boxes. All other keycaps fail in at least one or two categories.

NPKC and WinMix/KPRepublic Cherry profile is less "premium", has ugly modifier legends, and the latter has serious QC problems. Also it's PBT.

Tai-Hao OEM is fine quality but people just don't like typing on OEM, and has poor compatibility. They also don't run custom color GBs to my knowledge.

NPKC PBT OEM has great compatibility but it's still OEM. Additionally has a "rough" texture that lots of people don't like, and doesn't feel premium. Personally I think OEM is underrated for its typing experience but it also has a stigma that will be hard to get over.

Tai-Hao Cubic is like SA in that it's tall and chunky and not super comfortable to type on, also it's unbelievably loud and clacky due to the shape of the keycaps, and has not-great compatibiilty. And like their OEM, they don't do custom GBs, and the existing colorway (apart from Concrete) are frankly wack. Unlike SA it's not really beautiful either. Cubic is nobody's favorite.

DSA is making somewhat of a comeback, with Milkshake and now Scientific. This is deserved. DSA is a good profile, especially as mid-angle boards (4-7 degrees) are starting to gain popularity.

SA, whether SP or Maxkey, doesn't have the elite status it once had, but it still has its diehard fans. The common sentiment is "nice to look at and listen to (except the spacebar), not comfortable to type on".

People like KAT, MT3, EPBT Cherry profile, and MDA, but there's only so much you can do aesthetically with PBT. Novelpro is going to be another PBT player, more of an MT3 competitor than anything, and it's still a long way off at any rate. Also new KAT sets are basically unavailable due to issues at Keyreative and ZFrontier. EPBT is getting more popularity as the quality continues to rise (thanks for your hard work Gok!). MDA feels nice but I think it looks kinda weird and that turns people off. XDA is polarizing, either you love it or you hate it; it lacks mass appeal. MT3 is the same way, albeit with a bit of additional respect for its vintage aesthetic.

JTK keycaps don't feel or sound as nice as GMK for some reason, and the wonky legend issues still aren't fixed.

MT3 ABS has weird/bad font and the first set still hasn't shipped.

So what's left? Nothing.

Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.
Jason @ the key. Company is working with an alternative producer of dye sub pbt caps in cherry profile. The pictures I've seen so far are very promising, but they didn't perform so well (had to cancel some colour combinations during the gb).

I think we should be keeping an eye on those, because the price is right and the quality looks high.

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Offline Fate

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 18 June 2019, 06:55:19 »
My favorite element of GMK interest checks is the exposure to the broad variety of "black" and "white" colors that GMK has access to - it's fascinating watching someone deploy a new white-on-black or black-on-white GMK set that has ever so slightly more or less tint in any direction from everyone else's set because dammit it's just not black-on-white ENOUGH to buy GMK Stormtrooper or GMK Asphalt Snow or GMK Death in Winter or whatever.

It's like going to a Linux user conference. Everyone's reinventing that wheel.

Offline nguyenhimself

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Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 18 June 2019, 08:53:11 »
My favorite element of GMK interest checks is the exposure to the broad variety of "black" and "white" colors that GMK has access to - it's fascinating watching someone deploy a new white-on-black or black-on-white GMK set that has ever so slightly more or less tint in any direction from everyone else's set because dammit it's just not black-on-white ENOUGH to buy GMK Stormtrooper or GMK Asphalt Snow or GMK Death in Winter or whatever.

It's like going to a Linux user conference. Everyone's reinventing that wheel.
NoFunAllowed.svg
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 June 2019, 18:22:41 by nguyenhimself »

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 18 June 2019, 11:50:50 »
Too much

Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 18 June 2019, 12:14:42 »
Can we say "Streisand" effect? Because I discovered, and am about to purchase, GMK keycaps due to this thread. =D

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 20 June 2019, 21:00:22 »
My favorite element of GMK interest checks is the exposure to the broad variety of "black" and "white" colors that GMK has access to - it's fascinating watching someone deploy a new white-on-black or black-on-white GMK set that has ever so slightly more or less tint in any direction from everyone else's set because dammit it's just not black-on-white ENOUGH to buy GMK Stormtrooper or GMK Asphalt Snow or GMK Death in Winter or whatever.

It's like going to a Linux user conference. Everyone's reinventing that wheel.

Or some people just like variety and/or have particular taste.

There are plenty of other things to consider about a GMK set apart from color. You can look at the mod legend choices (icon? text? both? which numpad symbols?), kit design (small or big? how much ISO support? novelties?), or matching with other stuff like your keyboard, artisans, deskmats, etc.

If none of that matters to you, then great! You'll save a lot of money. But I think it's pretty off-base to say that multiple variations of BoW are "reinventing the wheel" -- that would imply that each of these GB runners is pretending that their BoW is the only correct one, or something like that.
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Offline depletedvespene

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 20 June 2019, 21:10:17 »

If none of that matters to you, then great! You'll save a lot of money. But I think it's pretty off-base to say that multiple variations of BoW are "reinventing the wheel" -- that would imply that each of these GB runners is pretending that their BoW is the only correct one, or something like that.

Have you seen my IC for GMK BOWDONERIGHTONCEANDFORALL? :p

Offline Applet

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 24 June 2019, 10:12:52 »
Yes, thick doubleshot DCS (also with alps mount), please  :D

Offline Gampela

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 25 June 2019, 03:27:07 »
I wonder if the people manufacturing Leopold's doupleshot pbt keycaps could start selling them separately and/or working with community. They have already released them in bunch of different color variations.

  • Cherry esque profile (might have own name?) Lays slightly lower than cherrys, which is kinda cool.
  • More textured surface, some people like, some don't.
  • Super clean and well designed legends.
  • The keyboards are selling cheaper than most of the GMK base sets, so I imagine keycaps themselves would be rather affordable. Ofc smaller quantities and need for more molds would incresase the price, but at least it's not based in Germany.

« Last Edit: Tue, 25 June 2019, 04:08:58 by Gampela »

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 431
Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 25 June 2019, 09:19:15 »
I have an FC900R PD arriving after the 10th, so I'll be able to compare directly with Wyse DCS keycaps as to quality.

Offline siijunn

  • Posts: 16
Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #72 on: Fri, 28 June 2019, 16:58:44 »
I have noticed an influx of GMK. That is fine with my since I'm a pretty big fan of it to begin with :P

I feel like some styles just work better with GMK opposed to things like SA. Maybe I'd need to see a render or something, but I feel like sets like Oblivion, Olivia, Hyperfuse, and Terminal just look soo good as GMK. I don't know how I'd feel about them in something else.

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 30 June 2019, 07:33:05 »
I wonder if the people manufacturing Leopold's doupleshot pbt keycaps could start selling them separately and/or working with community. They have already released them in bunch of different color variations.

  • Cherry esque profile (might have own name?) Lays slightly lower than cherrys, which is kinda cool.
  • More textured surface, some people like, some don't.
  • Super clean and well designed legends.
  • The keyboards are selling cheaper than most of the GMK base sets, so I imagine keycaps themselves would be rather affordable. Ofc smaller quantities and need for more molds would incresase the price, but at least it's not based in Germany.

Leopold could probably make big margins selling the keycaps separately.
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Offline Tonkatonk

  • Posts: 97
Re: Enough is ENOUGH
« Reply #74 on: Sun, 30 June 2019, 11:33:16 »
nice.

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