Author Topic: [GB] GMK 9009 R3  (Read 98643 times)

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Offline Extraxyz

  • Posts: 10
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #200 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 09:11:06 »


How do they manage to have three completely different results for the exact same sign? The Euro-sign on the 4 and E look nothing like the render at all.

Also the @ below the Q is tilted AF.. same on the 2/@ key.



The P is rotated clockwise


The dash is nowhere near straight
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 09:38:18 by Extraxyz »

Offline DukeEsquire

  • Posts: 362
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #201 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 09:48:42 »
The Euro-sign is bizarre, but the other nits are fine in my opinion.

When you have to inspect it with a macro lens, I think we are within the margin of acceptability.

Offline Mcnos

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    • GMK Fuyu
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #202 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 09:49:29 »
Show Image


How do they manage to have three completely different results for the exact same sign? The Euro-sign on the 4 and E look nothing like the render at all.

Also the @ below the Q is tilted AF.. same on the 2/@ key.


Show Image

The P is rotated clockwise

Show Image

The dash is nowhere near straight

Damn

Offline Extraxyz

  • Posts: 10
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #203 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 10:01:55 »
The Euro-sign is bizarre, but the other nits are fine in my opinion.

When you have to inspect it with a macro lens, I think we are within the margin of acceptability.

You can see it with the naked eye, that's just how my phone takes pictures. I didn't expect having to settle for "Eh.. close enough" on 200 USD worth of keycaps.

Offline DukeEsquire

  • Posts: 362
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #204 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 10:08:43 »
The Euro-sign is bizarre, but the other nits are fine in my opinion.

When you have to inspect it with a macro lens, I think we are within the margin of acceptability.

You can see it with the naked eye, that's just how my phone takes pictures. I didn't expect having to settle for "Eh.. close enough" on 200 USD worth of keycaps.

Aren't there these types of issues with literally every single set?

Its still a mass-produced product at the end of the day. I don't see how you can expect absolute perfection when you're buying a mass produced product like this.

$200 is not a lot of money when we're talking about the level of perfection people are expecting.

If you want ABSOLUTE perfection, I'm sure you'd probably need to spend 3-4x that to make it worth a manufacture's time and effort to do it.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 10:10:22 by DukeEsquire »

Offline bobgr8

  • Posts: 90
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #205 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 12:22:11 »
Any reply from GMK for replacements? These should not have passed QC. Had these been cheap $20 sets I would have been fine with it.

GMK should really get their **** together.



Offline jimboytacos

  • Posts: 157
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #206 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 13:32:30 »
The Euro-sign is bizarre, but the other nits are fine in my opinion.

When you have to inspect it with a macro lens, I think we are within the margin of acceptability.

You can see it with the naked eye, that's just how my phone takes pictures. I didn't expect having to settle for "Eh.. close enough" on 200 USD worth of keycaps.

Aren't there these types of issues with literally every single set?

Its still a mass-produced product at the end of the day. I don't see how you can expect absolute perfection when you're buying a mass produced product like this.

$200 is not a lot of money when we're talking about the level of perfection people are expecting.

If you want ABSOLUTE perfection, I'm sure you'd probably need to spend 3-4x that to make it worth a manufacture's time and effort to do it.

No, but what we've seen in the past are high quality and tight QC on these keycaps which is what we've come to expect from GMK.

Lately it seems they've dropped the ball pretty bad. Just look at the GB for GMK WoB and BoW icon modifiers- nearly half the keys are bad with lines that are not straight, bent, or even thinning out.

I'm thinking their tooling is going bad?

Offline bobgr8

  • Posts: 90
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #207 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 16:00:10 »
The Euro-sign is bizarre, but the other nits are fine in my opinion.

When you have to inspect it with a macro lens, I think we are within the margin of acceptability.

You can see it with the naked eye, that's just how my phone takes pictures. I didn't expect having to settle for "Eh.. close enough" on 200 USD worth of keycaps.

Aren't there these types of issues with literally every single set?

Its still a mass-produced product at the end of the day. I don't see how you can expect absolute perfection when you're buying a mass produced product like this.

$200 is not a lot of money when we're talking about the level of perfection people are expecting.

If you want ABSOLUTE perfection, I'm sure you'd probably need to spend 3-4x that to make it worth a manufacture's time and effort to do it.

Even in a $20 Double Shot ABS set, this would have been a reject. Often it's not about the money, it's about how much the manufacturer cares. Throwing away a keycap in a set is far cheaper than losing customers trust.


Source: DailyClack discord.

Should have been by any self-respecting manufacturer.



Offline ivu

  • Posts: 48
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #208 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 16:04:56 »
The Euro-sign is bizarre, but the other nits are fine in my opinion.

When you have to inspect it with a macro lens, I think we are within the margin of acceptability.

You can see it with the naked eye, that's just how my phone takes pictures. I didn't expect having to settle for "Eh.. close enough" on 200 USD worth of keycaps.

Aren't there these types of issues with literally every single set?

Its still a mass-produced product at the end of the day. I don't see how you can expect absolute perfection when you're buying a mass produced product like this.

$200 is not a lot of money when we're talking about the level of perfection people are expecting.

If you want ABSOLUTE perfection, I'm sure you'd probably need to spend 3-4x that to make it worth a manufacture's time and effort to do it.

Sometimes i'm kinda surprised of the blind hardcore defending of such things...
If you think having a plastic keycap set (in the end of the day, that's what it is) for 200 USD and having such issues, which you most probably won't find even on some of the 30 usd random sets, is acceptable..that's sad and not good for the hobby.

When something is done right - give your "bravo", but when something is done like this with low QC, when talking GMK standards and pricing especially, then bring it up and make sure the producer knows it, so they can take measures.  :thumb:

Offline Mufasa

  • Posts: 5
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #209 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 23:30:09 »
Anyone else's 6 off center? I noticed the 3 is also shifted down a little as well.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 23:35:48 by Mufasa »

Offline nsyinc

  • Posts: 6
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #210 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 01:40:17 »
Aren't there these types of issues with literally every single set?

Its still a mass-produced product at the end of the day. I don't see how you can expect absolute perfection when you're buying a mass produced product like this.

$200 is not a lot of money when we're talking about the level of perfection people are expecting.

If you want ABSOLUTE perfection, I'm sure you'd probably need to spend 3-4x that to make it worth a manufacture's time and effort to do it.

mass-produced?? on avg a gmk set sells about ~1000 sets, 1500 sets. some are even lower. it's a niche hobby after all.

i don't know how this is different than getting a board with mis-matched top and bottom, ano issues, scratches and dents, etc. would you say that is acceptable since it's only $500/$600 and ppl should go do a commission to avoid those issues?

there's a level of quality to be expected. gmk is considered at the top of what they do, hence the premium. ppl expectations are obviously higher. i don't see anything wrong for those that joined the gb to expect the best from gmk.

so if you didn't join the gb, i suggest you should stay out of it. and your comments are frankly unnecessary. i didn't join so that's all from me.

Offline mrkantz

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #211 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 10:52:15 »
Oh lord, here we go again

Offline Tyson

  • Posts: 411
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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #212 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 11:21:57 »
Show Image


How do they manage to have three completely different results for the exact same sign? The Euro-sign on the 4 and E look nothing like the render at all.

Also the @ below the Q is tilted AF.. same on the 2/@ key.


Show Image

The P is rotated clockwise

Show Image

The dash is nowhere near straight

****, I can confirm that my -_ key is also slanted on my GMK Night Runner Set. I never noticed it until further inspection after seeing this post... :pepehands: My P key might also be crooked but it's too hard to tell with it on the board, the -_ key stands out like a sore thumb.

Just compared both caps to my R1 Honeywell set and both sets have the same issue on the -_ key, same with the P key, I think people are just now getting around to noticing these issues.
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 June 2020, 11:32:32 by Tyson »

Offline DukeEsquire

  • Posts: 362
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #213 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 12:09:19 »
Aren't there these types of issues with literally every single set?

Its still a mass-produced product at the end of the day. I don't see how you can expect absolute perfection when you're buying a mass produced product like this.

$200 is not a lot of money when we're talking about the level of perfection people are expecting.

If you want ABSOLUTE perfection, I'm sure you'd probably need to spend 3-4x that to make it worth a manufacture's time and effort to do it.

mass-produced?? on avg a gmk set sells about ~1000 sets, 1500 sets. some are even lower. it's a niche hobby after all.

i don't know how this is different than getting a board with mis-matched top and bottom, ano issues, scratches and dents, etc. would you say that is acceptable since it's only $500/$600 and ppl should go do a commission to avoid those issues?

there's a level of quality to be expected. gmk is considered at the top of what they do, hence the premium. ppl expectations are obviously higher. i don't see anything wrong for those that joined the gb to expect the best from gmk.

so if you didn't join the gb, i suggest you should stay out of it. and your comments are frankly unnecessary. i didn't join so that's all from me.

I'm part of the GB so, while I appreciate your suggestion that I stay out, I will ignore it.

My opinion on the matter is just as valid as yours.

Look, if there is a missing stem or something really crooked, no one is defending GMK here so let's get that one out of the way.

But when people are using macro lenses to look at fractional degrees and getting worked up...that's just not something I can relate to.

If it's something that bothers you, I'm not going to tell you that your opinion is wrong. I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter as well.

Offline 3ambutter

  • Posts: 23
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #214 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 13:09:12 »
Show Image


How do they manage to have three completely different results for the exact same sign? The Euro-sign on the 4 and E look nothing like the render at all.

Also the @ below the Q is tilted AF.. same on the 2/@ key.


Show Image

The P is rotated clockwise

Show Image

The dash is nowhere near straight

****, I can confirm that my -_ key is also slanted on my GMK Night Runner Set. I never noticed it until further inspection after seeing this post... :pepehands: My P key might also be crooked but it's too hard to tell with it on the board, the -_ key stands out like a sore thumb.

Just compared both caps to my R1 Honeywell set and both sets have the same issue on the -_ key, same with the P key, I think people are just now getting around to noticing these issues.

Don't know how that's possible since Mizu looked perfectly fine(as somebody compared above). Is Dixie or Janglad going to address this issue like Emir did for wob/bow extension? Or are we going to accept lower quality from GMK going forward. If it's the latter lmk now so I can stop joining GMK gbs.

Offline Tyson

  • Posts: 411
  • Location: Texas
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #215 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 14:27:55 »

****, I can confirm that my -_ key is also slanted on my GMK Night Runner Set. I never noticed it until further inspection after seeing this post... :pepehands: My P key might also be crooked but it's too hard to tell with it on the board, the -_ key stands out like a sore thumb.

Just compared both caps to my R1 Honeywell set and both sets have the same issue on the -_ key, same with the P key, I think people are just now getting around to noticing these issues.

Don't know how that's possible since Mizu looked perfectly fine(as somebody compared above). Is Dixie or Janglad going to address this issue like Emir did for wob/bow extension? Or are we going to accept lower quality from GMK going forward. If it's the latter lmk now so I can stop joining GMK gbs.

Here's a pic, Night Runner Dash key right next to my R1 Honeywell Dash.


I feel like this really isn't one of the keys that should be an issue if this has been normal since R1 Honeywell ran.

Offline spoopycheezy

  • Posts: 15
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #216 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 15:01:38 »
i havent inspected all the caps but the few i did had a lot of little mold burrs underneath the caps. looks like i need to go in and surgically cut them all off. oh how fun. otherwise color is excellent.

Offline hkiri

  • Posts: 152
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #217 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 15:06:29 »
But when people are using macro lenses to look at fractional degrees and getting worked up...that's just not something I can relate to.

Don't make a fool of yourself. So far everything talked about or shown here were issues you can spot with your naked eye. In cases of "Print" and "Scroll" even from a normal distance (keyboard sitting in front of you on the table).

Offline DukeEsquire

  • Posts: 362
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #218 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 16:26:42 »
But when people are using macro lenses to look at fractional degrees and getting worked up...that's just not something I can relate to.

Don't make a fool of yourself. So far everything talked about or shown here were issues you can spot with your naked eye. In cases of "Print" and "Scroll" even from a normal distance (keyboard sitting in front of you on the table).

Is it within GMK's stated margin of error?

Offline J3ff_Leopard

  • Posts: 118
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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #219 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 16:32:56 »
i havent inspected all the caps but the few i did had a lot of little mold burrs underneath the caps. looks like i need to go in and surgically cut them all off. oh how fun. otherwise color is excellent.

Out of curiosity which caps are you seeing burrs on the underside? Supposedly this is a known issue with GMK R5. Obviously things like this can happen with any of the profiles at any time, just wondering for the sake of wondering where you are seeing the issue.
Usually wrong

Offline spoopycheezy

  • Posts: 15
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #220 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 16:46:48 »

Out of curiosity which caps are you seeing burrs on the underside? Supposedly this is a known issue with GMK R5. Obviously things like this can happen with any of the profiles at any time, just wondering for the sake of wondering where you are seeing the issue.

i'll fully check each cap tonight and let you know

Offline hkiri

  • Posts: 152
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #221 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 16:59:10 »
But when people are using macro lenses to look at fractional degrees and getting worked up...that's just not something I can relate to.

Don't make a fool of yourself. So far everything talked about or shown here were issues you can spot with your naked eye. In cases of "Print" and "Scroll" even from a normal distance (keyboard sitting in front of you on the table).

Is it within GMK's stated margin of error?

Have they finally released such a spec sheet?

Offline bobgr8

  • Posts: 90
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #222 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 17:07:49 »
But when people are using macro lenses to look at fractional degrees and getting worked up...that's just not something I can relate to.

Don't make a fool of yourself. So far everything talked about or shown here were issues you can spot with your naked eye. In cases of "Print" and "Scroll" even from a normal distance (keyboard sitting in front of you on the table).

Is it within GMK's stated margin of error?

Have they finally released such a spec sheet?

AFAIK, they haven't released it.

but they said this in WoB/BoW Icon extension kit:

Quote
Although the quality of these key caps is acceptable considering regular industrial applications & conditions (according to a very strict Cherry guidelines manual that we keep) we understand that for the hobbyist community the quality observed may not have been enough.
Through this, we would like to reinforce our special care regarding the hobbyist enthusiasts. However we would like to take this opportunity to clarify that the double shot injection molding procedures and current technologies available in the market cannot possibly yield 100% flawless, replicable and exact results for every keycap.
While we take great care of our molds and are constantly implementing process of inspections and replacements as they wear, technical variables such as temperature and pressure of our machines between runs can be controlled only to a certain extent and slightly differ between the production runs
As a result, if examined under microscope and macro lens, it is sometimes possible to observe imperfections and variations that sometimes can't be entirely extinguished. This is because our key caps are meant to be used and observed at a viewing distance of about 45 cm, which translates to normal usage conditions. This time around we understand that the variations on a couple legends didn't meet pleasing characteristics to the naked eye at close.
We are constantly researching and looking for new methods and technologies to be implemented in our facilities, as the hobbyist community is a great part of our operation. The passion and support is very much appreciated.

Thank you for your understanding.

Which I find a bit of BS and a bit of saving grace.

As seen from 45cm, anyone with 6/6 vision can make out the errors, and by their own definition, merit a replacement.


Show Image


How do they manage to have three completely different results for the exact same sign? The Euro-sign on the 4 and E look nothing like the render at all.

Also the @ below the Q is tilted AF.. same on the 2/@ key.


Show Image

The P is rotated clockwise

Show Image

The dash is nowhere near straight

****, I can confirm that my -_ key is also slanted on my GMK Night Runner Set. I never noticed it until further inspection after seeing this post... :pepehands: My P key might also be crooked but it's too hard to tell with it on the board, the -_ key stands out like a sore thumb.

Just compared both caps to my R1 Honeywell set and both sets have the same issue on the -_ key, same with the P key, I think people are just now getting around to noticing these issues.

Don't know how that's possible since Mizu looked perfectly fine(as somebody compared above). Is Dixie or Janglad going to address this issue like Emir did for wob/bow extension? Or are we going to accept lower quality from GMK going forward. If it's the latter lmk now so I can stop joining GMK gbs.

> Is Dixie or Janglad going to address this issue like Emir

Waiting on the same, Emir did a great job.
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 June 2020, 17:11:56 by bobgr8 »



Offline packman86

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #223 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 17:56:13 »
tfw reading up on this thread

* review.jpg (176.1 kB. 1363x1524 - viewed 159 times.)245656-1
TGR Jane V2 | TGR Jane V2 CE | TGR Alice | TGR 910 | TGR x Singa UNIKORN 60 | Matrix 8XV 2.0 Korea Version | LZ CLS s h x | Duck Jetfire | TX-CP | QXP | Noxary X65 | RAMA M60-A | HHKB lol

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #224 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 18:20:00 »
i forgot that from now on every GB thread for a GMK set will end up like this lol

hot take: if GMK quality is getting worse and they aren’t doing anything about it, stop buying GMK and force them to do something about it

Offline janglad

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #225 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 20:04:30 »
So I don't want to say anything "official" yet (since far from everyone has received their sets and I don't want to speak for vendors) but these are my 2 cents on the legend situation.

I think at the end of the day we're at the grace of GMK. Obviously it's in the vendors' best interest to provide a product with the highest possible quality. Simply paying to get them remade or asking GMK to remake them for free doesn't seem like the solution though, since chances are high the same keys will come out of those mould machines.

I think it's also interesting to note (as been done above) that some of these issues are things that have been on GMK sets for years but people just never picked up on. I made some detailed pictures of keys a while ago for render legends and noticed stuff like inconsistent kerning/alignment across text and stuff like the wiggly lines on the keys below:





These are just some examples but I noticed similar stuff across multiple sets spanning years.

IIRC nobody complained about having issues with their MoDo sets (I certainly didn't pick them up until I took these pictures) but I feel like it'd definitely be reported if that same set shipped today. Obviously standards can change so I'm not saying it wouldn't be valid, but I do think it's important to mention that some of these are an increase in expectations and not a decrease in quality. With the insane amount of growth it's to be expected that more people start taking out their magnifying glass, and once word gets out this starts snowballing people read about it and start checking their own sets.

However, these issues are definitely showing up more for every set. Is this simply because the amount of sets sold has increased 5 fold and has the % of these issues stayed the same? Or is the % of affected sets growing on average? At this time I'm not sure, at least not when it comes to "milder issues" like the ones here. Some sets definitely seem to have newer and more serious issues (if I'm not remembering it wrong the Esc key on Wavez and icon mods on sets like the WOB extension kit had new issues and were very common).

Feel free to send me pictures if you have issues to me on Discord @janglad#0001 , I'd be interested to see the kind of issues and how common they are. If possible do not use the GH PM system since it's horrible  ;D

(As a side note, a lot of these pictures are taken with very wide angle phone cameras which makes checking alignment hard due to the lens warping the picture making straight things seem crooked, if you can try using as long of a lens as possible and take your picture top down).

Offline Bookman3

  • Posts: 7
  • Location: Denver
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #226 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 20:34:53 »
But when people are using macro lenses to look at fractional degrees and getting worked up...that's just not something I can relate to.

Don't make a fool of yourself. So far everything talked about or shown here were issues you can spot with your naked eye. In cases of "Print" and "Scroll" even from a normal distance (keyboard sitting in front of you on the table).
Strongly relate to Duke here . Unusually warped spacebars (mt3 pbt) is one thing, but I have a hard time being concerned by slight variations in angles. That euro symbol diff would bother me, but didn’t get that kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Mcnos

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #227 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 20:44:51 »
My 9009 arrived in my parcel locker.

My parcel locker is down due to storm until Thursday.

Offline Bookman3

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #228 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 20:46:35 »
My 9009 arrived in my parcel locker.

My parcel locker is down due to storm until Thursday.
oof. I feel you though. My New Model F went to Delaware. I’m in Washington state.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline ackzot

  • Posts: 27
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #229 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 21:19:33 »
I was supposed to get 9009 today. but for some reason the package not delivered and still saying in transit.... whats odd is the last city in the update is not one i normally see when priority mail is used to ship things to me.

Offline Emir

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #230 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 01:46:47 »
The legend issues in WoB/BoW also existed in previous sets, and sets after it but were still resolved for that kit.

It's about how much you care. Even after icons for wob/bow was resolved, sets that shipped after it (WoB Hiragana for example) shows no sign of caring enough to have it resolved, just like they didn't care they switched up the icons without informing anyone.
When I first raised it with GMK, I was turned down, it was "within specification" and we had the whole statements thing posted. I didn't give up, I kept pushing until it was resolved. Why? Because I care.

Do you care Janglad? It's easy to sit back and be like welp "it's in the vendors interest", "at the grace of gmk" and "asking gmk to remake them... doesn't seem like the solution" after raking in the money from everyone already. For GMK Minimal, the legends issues were swept under a rug even after a customer did all the work for you by assembling a whole PDF outlining every single issue. It is nice to be hands off after collecting and hope it dies down.
Or maybe there just aren't any tickets registered with Dixiemech?  :thumb:

There's also the argument that it's easier for GMK to replace keys with kits/sets that sold less than 500, compared to something massive like this. Which is true, but GMK was also commissioned A LOT more for 9009 in total which is a counter weight.

Now, to be realistic, it is true that if the issues are not consistent, I am sorry to say that the customers having these problems will just have to let go and keep in mind that things like this do happen with GMK and until their "specifications" are official, you must come to expect this to some degree.
It won't be resolved in that case. With GMK WoB/Bow, it was consistent across every kit, that is probably the only reason we could have it remade. In any case, I hope your attitude towards issues changes even after sets are delivered.

Offline Extraxyz

  • Posts: 10
Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #231 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 02:07:59 »
About these issues being on other, older sets, I can only compare to GMK sets I have: Bento, Mizu and Oblivion have none of the issues I posted above (the P and - at least, I only bought Norde for 9009 because I plan to use this my main set for a while). I also did not take a picture with a wide-angle lens to emphasize the differences, I just took a quick snapshot of keys that stood out by the naked eye. If anything, it's even less noticable on the pictures than irl.

That said; I'm not looking nor expecting to get anything resolved, it's just feedback on a set that I intend to use regardless. If you do nothing with that feedback that's fine too, but it would make me think twice which designer to buy the next set from (even though I'm already in on MoDo 2). It almost feels like you don't care about the sets after GB is fulfilled (unless a post goes viral on Reddit). While another designer sent me a second "Hello world!" key because the first was misaligned by a fraction of a millimeter..
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 June 2020, 03:10:00 by Extraxyz »

Offline Emir

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #232 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 02:24:40 »
I also recommend people not to DM Janglad pictures, but instead post them in the thread. This way, there's no easy way out like "ah there were barely any issues, I got like no DMs".
I asked people who DMd me or posted in my discord to post straight into the thread for visibility and no excuses.

However, the main reason is that GMK does look in geekhack threads. If they see one or two pictures they won't care. If they see a lot of customers posting the same issues, that's a different ball game.
Initially, they deemed that WoB/BoW issues weren't consistent, that is until I had everyone post images like crazy.

Unless Janglad want's to reupload all images and prove they're different sets from different customers in an excel sheet and send it over to GMK, that is.

If you are one of the lucky few to read my posts in this thread, congratulations! They are likely to soon be removed by geekhack mods, like in the 8008 thread when I raise any criticism. :)

Offline janglad

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #233 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 03:15:58 »
The legend issues in WoB/BoW also existed in previous sets, and sets after it but were still resolved for that kit.

It's about how much you care. Even after icons for wob/bow was resolved, sets that shipped after it (WoB Hiragana for example) shows no sign of caring enough to have it resolved, just like they didn't care they switched up the icons without informing anyone.
When I first raised it with GMK, I was turned down, it was "within specification" and we had the whole statements thing posted. I didn't give up, I kept pushing until it was resolved. Why? Because I care.

Do you care Janglad? It's easy to sit back and be like welp "it's in the vendors interest", "at the grace of gmk" and "asking gmk to remake them... doesn't seem like the solution" after raking in the money from everyone already. For GMK Minimal, the legends issues were swept under a rug even after a customer did all the work for you by assembling a whole PDF outlining every single issue. It is nice to be hands off after collecting and hope it dies down.
Or maybe there just aren't any tickets registered with Dixiemech?  :thumb:

There's also the argument that it's easier for GMK to replace keys with kits/sets that sold less than 500, compared to something massive like this. Which is true, but GMK was also commissioned A LOT more for 9009 in total which is a counter weight.

Now, to be realistic, it is true that if the issues are not consistent, I am sorry to say that the customers having these problems will just have to let go and keep in mind that things like this do happen with GMK and until their "specifications" are official, you must come to expect this to some degree.
It won't be resolved in that case. With GMK WoB/Bow, it was consistent across every kit, that is probably the only reason we could have it remade. In any case, I hope your attitude towards issues changes even after sets are delivered.

As for Minimal, the complaints came from one person months after everybody else already had gotten their sets and were happy with it. After this a handful more people noticed the same issues. This did indeed not warrant 1000+ packages going around the world for me.

As for the comparison to WoB/BoW, like you said the issue was consistent across all sets + the icons were the entire set (altho sure you could say that having perfect legends is a big part of every GMK set). As you said, that's why you were able to get it remade by GMK, in other words you also were at the grace of GMK. I'm not trying to hide behind it, it's simply the truth. If GMK considers these within tolerance simple reordering keys won't resolve anything. It seems to me that the issues with the keys now are ones that would have happened on GBs years ago too without people taking notice, in contrast to the clearly new issues like on WoB/BoW and Wavez.

Again, it's in the best interest of everyone involved here from the customer to me to the vendors to deliver the best quality product possible. Making customers not happy sure isn't a sustainable business model. It doesn't look good on anyone when these issues become widespread. I think it's obvious I care, I just also think it's important to nuance stuff like higher expectations VS lower quality and greater sample size VS greater failure rate.

Offline hkiri

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #234 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 05:33:10 »
Especially the legends of the "Print" and "Scroll" keycaps have issues I have never seen before on any other GMK set, so that's something completely new and everyone I talked to had the same issues. So it seems to be consistent.
The bare minimum would be to at least communicate this to GMK.

The worst:




Bad but okay:

« Last Edit: Wed, 24 June 2020, 05:40:22 by hkiri »

Offline janglad

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #235 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 05:37:54 »
also yes posting here is fine too, it's just that it's easier to follow up on Discord. Also if you do take the pics with a phone, an easy way to get a flat shot is to put the keycap on a table and put your phone on something like a tall glass with the keycap in the centre of the shot to minimize distortion

Offline Emir

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #236 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 06:04:26 »
I recommend to keep it strictly thread because GMK will want to have all material related to it. This way, you won't have to separately upload everything and link to GMK and also credit each different customer behind the photo and prove it.
Well, they don't have to, but it certainly helps your case (I learned this the hard way, being rejected first).

I also don't see how it is easier to follow up to a lot of people individually than to adress everyone in one post, but it's your decision. Hope it can be resolved, genuinely!  :thumb:

Offline janglad

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #237 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 08:11:35 »
Especially the legends of the "Print" and "Scroll" keycaps have issues I have never seen before on any other GMK set, so that's something completely new and everyone I talked to had the same issues. So it seems to be consistent.
The bare minimum would be to at least communicate this to GMK.

The worst:

Show Image

Show Image


Bad but okay:

Show Image


Alright so straightening these out the Pause looks like it has an ever so slightly tilted P but the legend seems p straight overall. Same with print, pretty straight altho the P is slightly too low. The scroll is definitely messed up though.







I'll be adding other pictures to this album https://imgur.com/a/SlEnqrE

Offline fleeceman

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #238 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 08:18:15 »
I think the scroll, print, and tilted P are unacceptable really. The tilted underscore I can forgive as it seems it has always been wonky.

What really concerns me is that the quality of GMK legends is clearly declining. I will hold off joining any more GBs until they have resolved these issues.

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Offline janglad

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #239 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 08:26:11 »
I think the scroll, print, and tilted P are unacceptable really. The tilted underscore I can forgive as it seems it has always been wonky.

What really concerns me is that the quality of GMK legends is clearly declining. I will hold off joining any more GBs until they have resolved these issues.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

as I mentioned above I think higher expectations VS lower quality and higher sample size VS higher failure rate plays a big role here, at least for things like the Pause and Print key. Slightly tilted letters or ones below the baseline are definitely things I noticed in a lot of legends from different sets/years when I took a deep dive for render legends a while back. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed but I at least for those 2 keys I wouldn't say it indicates GMK getting worse. There will always be some tolerances in every product. The scroll however is definitely unacceptable and would have been called out a year ago as well.
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 June 2020, 08:28:20 by janglad »

Offline bobgr8

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #240 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 08:55:07 »
i forgot that from now on every GB thread for a GMK set will end up like this lol

hot take: if GMK quality is getting worse and they aren’t doing anything about it, stop buying GMK and force them to do something about it

I agree, but this is a unique hobby, where we pay up first based on renders and get our products months later.

If this is the current state of GMK moulds and GMK isn't correcting them. Maybe the future renders should also show a slanted - and a slanted P key. and all the other errors in the render. lol. You know for transparency sake. \s

Obviously no designer is going to do that, but this careless attitude from GMK should be pointed out, so buyers can make an informed decision, rather than GMK saying oops 6 months later.

I'm gonna stay away from GMK until they rectify their errors.
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 June 2020, 08:59:07 by bobgr8 »



Offline janglad

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #241 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 09:00:09 »
i forgot that from now on every GB thread for a GMK set will end up like this lol

hot take: if GMK quality is getting worse and they aren’t doing anything about it, stop buying GMK and force them to do something about it

I agree, but this is a unique hobby, where we pay up first based on renders and get our products months later.

If this is the current state of GMK moulds and GMK isn't correcting them. Maybe the future renders should also show a slanted - and a slanted P key. and all the other errors in the render. lol. You know for transparency sake. \s

Obviously no designer is going to do that, but this careless attitude from GMK should be pointed out, so buyers can make an informed decision, rather than GMK saying oops 6 months later. Can't see the mistakes.

I'm gonna stay away from GMK until they rectify their errors.

I actually did copy over the inconsistent kerning on some keys the best I could, although there's a certain point where you can't make it identical since the placement differs ever so slightly from set to set/mould to mould. 90099 R3 still used my old render legends thought, I redid them for Modern Dolch Light.

Offline hkiri

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #242 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 09:20:33 »
Especially the legends of the "Print" and "Scroll" keycaps have issues I have never seen before on any other GMK set, so that's something completely new and everyone I talked to had the same issues. So it seems to be consistent.
The bare minimum would be to at least communicate this to GMK.

The worst:

Show Image

Show Image


Bad but okay:

Show Image


Alright so straightening these out the Pause looks like it has an ever so slightly tilted P but the legend seems p straight overall. Same with print, pretty straight altho the P is slightly too low. The scroll is definitely messed up though.

Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


I'll be adding other pictures to this album https://imgur.com/a/SlEnqrE

Thanks a lot for taking your time editing and analyzing my pictures.
And sorry for providing mediocre material. Unfortunately I only have an old smartphone on hand for taking pictures :/

Oh and just to make sure: I only provided a picture of the "Pause" keycap for its really bold "u". I know that this is something that already occurred on several other sets but in this case it's way bolder than I have ever experienced this "issue" before. It's fairly noticeable when it is mounted on a keyboard and just sitting in front of you.
But nothing I would start an outcry for. Just added it. But "Scroll" and "Print" are really, really bad. Nothing I have ever experienced before with any GMK set.

Thanks again for taking your time!

Offline bobgr8

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #243 on: Thu, 25 June 2020, 00:18:10 »
Also what is up with warped spacebars? Why even bother with GMK at this point.
Anybody knows how to straighten this? Coz Abs boils at a lower temperature, is it safe to attempt to straighten it.
Poor QC man. Now I know why GMK does not do a grab bag, coz GMK is grab bag Hope JTK improves it's quality and GMK get its s**** together



Also the ? is much thinner than /


also putting the scor// and pause and the Print here for the sake of redundancy.
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 June 2020, 00:23:03 by bobgr8 »



Offline Ensaum

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #244 on: Thu, 25 June 2020, 00:58:08 »
I'm having the same legending issues everyone else is reporting. However, I went back and looked at all my other GMK sets and "Scroll" is almost always crooked to some degree (although admittedly not as bad as on this set), even on sets that have the "Scroll Lock" legend. Print is also commonly lower case, but I didn't check pause because I don't personally see the issue from the pictures.

What does really bother me though is that my space bars are warped as well. Even the accent bars. I've noticed that 6u GMK bars are often slightly warped, but 6.25u and 7u bars are almost always perfectly straight.

Online phinix

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #245 on: Thu, 25 June 2020, 02:45:09 »
Seriously, I don't understand that moaning about legend issues - so microscopic, don't care - it really adds a character to the caps, kinda vintage look :)
Warped spacebars on the other hand, is a problem. Not for pbt, but for ABS, it is.
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 June 2020, 07:17:32 by phinix »
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Offline Emir

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #246 on: Thu, 25 June 2020, 03:58:25 »

Also the ? is much thinner than /
Show Image


This is normal and the "way it is", don't expect this to be fixed. There are sets like this (including all of my OG Cherry Doubleshots), and then there are a few sets with a more balanced ?, but I wouldn't count on it being fixed as it has been that way since cherry times.

The banana spacebars is new to me, damn.

Offline bobgr8

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #247 on: Thu, 25 June 2020, 06:07:45 »

Also the ? is much thinner than /
Show Image


This is normal and the "way it is", don't expect this to be fixed. There are sets like this (including all of my OG Cherry Doubleshots), and then there are a few sets with a more balanced ?, but I wouldn't count on it being fixed as it has been that way since cherry times.

The banana spacebars is new to me, damn.

Oh, ok thank you!



Offline Sun

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #248 on: Thu, 25 June 2020, 09:30:41 »
I can confirm the space bar warping. All of the space bars have it to some degree. It is pretty noticeable especially when comparing to my other 5 GMK sets.

Offline 3ambutter

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Re: [GB] GMK 9009 R3
« Reply #249 on: Thu, 25 June 2020, 11:06:14 »
Can you guys post pictures of your issues so Janglad/Dixie can see and try to do something? My shipping got delayed so I wont have pictures for another 3 days. But honestly at this point is it even worth opening?