Author Topic: Playing into GMKs hands....  (Read 19066 times)

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Offline MdotMaxson

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Playing into GMKs hands....
« on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 06:48:33 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I feel like everyone much appreciates group buys like KAT milkshake with a ton of kits, but people also seem to love ABS overpriced GMK sets. Why donít we stop doing GMK until they edit their manufacturing process to benefit the community. Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS. Mostly, Iíd just prefer to stop having to buy a million keys I donít want, rarely ever see a ergo set, and hate paying 300$ when there is an ergo set when 50% of those keys wonít get mounted.

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.

Offline woodruff

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 07:39:17 »
GMK keycaps aren't overpriced. The problem is that group leaders sustain many costs, or perhaps they simply want to earn too much.

GMK white on black sold on drop.com was very cheap: 99 USD for a ton of keys.
GMK triumph adler, on drop too, with custom colors, had the same price, also with a lot of keys.

GMK isn't greedy, their products aren't overpriced, just look at the cost of a good pbt set. You won't save more that 20% compared to GMK.


Offline hansichen

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 07:40:05 »

Offline subcat

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 07:41:35 »
Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS.

just start a better company 4head

the sets are designed to please as many users as possible while making a reasonable trade off price-wise. there simply aren't that many people who use ergo. if you want a specific ergo kit design it yourself, but if you can't reach moq it's not going to be worth gmk's time or money to manufacture it. they're a large company who do much more than serve the needs of gh.

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Offline ideus

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 07:47:48 »
The wrong logic is due to the community and people leading group buys, not because of the manufacturers, GMK included. Just take a look at the so called artisan's or premium cases' market and you will see that prices there are far more insane than GMK's caps. It is known that the economy of MK's is based on the collector's mentality, the willingness to pay outrageous prices for the sake of having something "special".
Also check the keebs on display at media threads and all of them should worth several hundred dollars. Nobody appreciates a low cost board anymore.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 September 2019, 07:51:43 by ideus »

Offline fkcaps

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 08:03:14 »
We will open shop by the end of the year, with this target in mind.

Check the IC thread and fill out the form to hear from us when we start taking orders :)

http://fkcaps.com

Offline Sup

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 08:28:55 »
Even if there is a better alternative. GMK makes it with OG Cherry tooling. And people like OG stuff. I doubt people are gonna give up on GMK any time soon and there are like 50 billion IC on geekhack about GMK sets anyway.
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Offline funderburker

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 09:10:31 »
1. GMK keyset pricing depends on a lot of factors. As mention previously - more basic keysets with their colors are $99 nowadays.
2. Would you like to buy each key individually and try and hit MOQ for those? Think that'll lower the cost lol?
3. GMK is a big company and we need vendors as middle man to have this communication with GMK so we can make what people want. Making random one-off keysets for everyone that thinks his one is unique isn't their main goal. It's not commercially viable. You probably have no idea what goes into running, organising and distributing a GMK group buy. They deserve to make profit for their effort and time that they've put in. Renders, design costs, B-stocks.
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Offline friglesnart

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 17 September 2019, 09:30:12 »
This is so sad, can we get 500k for HuB?

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 18 September 2019, 17:12:34 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I feel like everyone much appreciates group buys like KAT milkshake with a ton of kits, but people also seem to love ABS overpriced GMK sets. Why donít we stop doing GMK until they edit their manufacturing process to benefit the community. Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS. Mostly, Iíd just prefer to stop having to buy a million keys I donít want, rarely ever see a ergo set, and hate paying 300$ when there is an ergo set when 50% of those keys wonít get mounted.

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.


I wish i could make a gmk set.. i think i'd be pretty successful running group buys.

Offline switchnollie

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 18 September 2019, 18:31:24 »
i think i'd be pretty successful running group buys.

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Offline ideus

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 18 September 2019, 18:59:49 »
i think i'd be pretty successful running group buys.

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Offline superdoedoe

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 03:18:10 »
Instead of GMK, I reckon you should take the same approach to SP.

Offline Sup

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 08:04:11 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I feel like everyone much appreciates group buys like KAT milkshake with a ton of kits, but people also seem to love ABS overpriced GMK sets. Why donít we stop doing GMK until they edit their manufacturing process to benefit the community. Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS. Mostly, Iíd just prefer to stop having to buy a million keys I donít want, rarely ever see a ergo set, and hate paying 300$ when there is an ergo set when 50% of those keys wonít get mounted.

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.


I wish i could make a gmk set.. i think i'd be pretty successful running group buys.

You think you do but you don't.
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Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs |
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 09:11:11 »
Everyone thinks manufacturing is much simpler than it really is.  Yes, companies "should" be flexible and willing to work with customers, but sometimes it simply doesn't make sense.  If we represent a small portion of their volume but are accounting for a larger portion of their R&D and development work, suddenly the math doesn't work in our favor. 

As an example, GMK didn't do custom colors for the longest time.  Maybe they had very robust and well-designed color specs for their existing offerings, and the technology and knowledge to make custom colors wasn't there (color measurement systems aren't necessarily cheap, not to mention the process experience and know-how).  Anyone remember how the first custom color set turned out?  There were some swirls and other inconsistencies, and the community (rightfully) was not too satisfied.  These are just some of the risks associated with transferring from an entirely stock portfolio to specializing in custom offerings. 

All this to say that you are justified in feeling frustrated and like there must be a better way, but you've also mentioned the reason it hasn't happened yet - capitalism.  GMK still offers the best ABS doubleshot sets, and hasn't felt sufficient pressure from their customers to change too many things on their end, and clearly the market isn't able or willing to support a worthy competitor.  That definitely has been changing lately though, with more flexibility on GMK's end and the advent of alternative manufacturers like JTK.

Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 16:43:20 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and

For what they are, I think the sets are priced very well. Many people have the assumption that we pump these sets out one at a time in rapid succession on some assembly line, this is simply not the case. We currently only have 3 machines that make a few caps at most at a time (~30 seconds for 3-4 caps). Each of these is monitored for quality control by a person during production. After production each set is sorted and boxed by hand, during which quality inspection of all the caps happens again. All caps are made entirely in Germany, packaged in Germany, and shipped from Germany, where working rates are also much higher than CN. Signature Plastics caps are also quite expensive, much for the same reasons. They put a lot of manual labor into their caps as well (and it also shows in quality!), it is definitely not close to as automated as many people assume! When you put quality first, there isn't a way to get around such a manual process!

2. How many keys you get that you really donít need?

This is all up to the designers. Outside of the Q:01 kit, we have not designed any sets in house to sell. Having a full "base kit" is something that the designer choses to do, and generally speaking the community really seems to like this approach. While it is different than making a set with SP, this way of running sets does make it cheaper for what you get, and also is what helps people resell the sets later if they want, as most kits will cover mostly any keyboard you have or get in the future. We are just the manufacturer, not the designers of the community sets, so we really don't have any control over what keys are included in any given set at all. We do not force anyone to design sets this way.

3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I think we work really hard to meet the needs of the customers. Unlike other manufacturers we have invested heavily in packaging. After we invested in the trays we invested in the banderoles, which we essentially eat the cost of to have custom printed for the sets, because we think it really adds a personalized element to the overall package. When the trays initially didn't work as planned we immediately invested more to fix it before the issue could arise again (Triumph Adler anyone?). We currently are finishing up creating the entire sizing of spacebar keys for the bottom row, including may obscure size keys that will only support a few boards, just so they are there for the community to use (finishing 3u, 1.25u, 1.75u now). Again, these were created thanks to the direct feedback from community members and vendors.

Lead time are also incredibly important to us. With the influx of current orders we have currently placed an order for a new machine to raise our capabilities by 25%, as well as doing third shifts. We can't always predict community requirements, but we can certainly react quickly to make sure we can deliver good products within a reasonable time. I am not sure if any other manufacturers have invested in new machinery just for the community (as it isn't cheap at all!).

We have open, direct, transparent lines of communication up with all of our vendors, and take all the feedback we can take from them in chats, and people on here. Obviously we are never perfect, but we are always striving to interact with the community on a deeper level (like designing a keyboard directly with community members) or listening to our vendors for how we can better help them when they are selling/shipping our sets, or with members individually. We are always open to suggestions on how we can improve still.

Not to mention, there is still time this year even to announce new things we have been working on ;) We simply never rush any product, once we know the quality is there and that we can replicate it to scale, then we announce, but we are always working with community members directly even during design processes for new products because we really do love working with and supporting the community.

« Last Edit: Thu, 19 September 2019, 16:47:54 by GMK_Andy »

Offline ArchDill

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 18:38:28 »
We are seeing some cheap GMK sets right now. The fact that you can get 9009 for $99.99 is insane. There are some other great sets going for that price aswell.

Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 18:43:48 »
We are seeing some cheap GMK sets right now. The fact that you can get 9009 for $99.99 is insane. There are some other great sets going for that price aswell.

Yeah! and the old BoW from Massdrop. Again, thank the designers for these prices, they are also listening and trying to accomodate what the community wants.  :thumb:

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 18:48:36 »


*mic drop*

This has to be one of the best replies from a vendor rep ever.

I don't really buy keycap sets anymore but I've still got a couple of the first GMK Dolch sets.

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Offline Lbibass

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 18:59:08 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.


You're a clown. Andy had some really good things to say. Not everything can be mass produced in China, and not everything is gonna be the price you want it to be. If you feel kits have too many keys, then lets see your alternative. You make a really small kit, and see how that sells.

Offline ideus

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 19 September 2019, 19:56:41 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and
...
Thank you very much for a well elaborated response. Some middlemen running group buys, Drop included, may have a share of how some fellow GHers perceive GMK. Some of us have no information how your Company is dealing with custom orders and  may fill the grays and gaps in unfair ways. This explanation, for example, enlighten us all about the care you put in our community.

Offline aeryxz

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 02:06:48 »
We still taking anything mdotm says seriously now? He's just a toxic troll. Good response from Andy.

Offline Surefoot

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 03:14:24 »
Not to mention, there is still time this year even to announce new things we have been working on ;)
PBT or POM double shot process would be really awesome :)

Offline funderburker

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 04:10:06 »
Andy, great and professional response! Also very insightful. I tip my fedora to you, GMK representative!

Love that this thread quickly became pro-GMK and not troll infested like MdotM probably wanted it to be. Trolls like this are inevitable given the fast growth of our community (talking more of the mechanical keyboards as a whole and not only GH) but GH is definitely not the place were trolls thrive (except Tp4, we love you dude and you're the best!).
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Offline woodruff

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 06:27:10 »
We are seeing some cheap GMK sets right now. The fact that you can get 9009 for $99.99 is insane. There are some other great sets going for that price aswell.

Yeah! and the old BoW from Massdrop. Again, thank the designers for these prices, they are also listening and trying to accomodate what the community wants.  :thumb:

thanks GMK_Andy for your reply. I'm very happy that you're proceeding to offer more convex keys, I'm particularly interested in the convex 1u and 1.25 (to be used as modifiers and arrows for example).

I've got a couple of questions though:
- why uniqey doesn't offer some standard sets like bow or beige, instead of that discutible purple and gray set? :-)
- are you going to offer a tkl keyboard, instead of those quite unpopular 100% and 65% keyboards?

thanks


Online dingusxmcgee

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 06:51:15 »
Really insightful response from Andy.
Thank you for sharing and connecting with the community like that!

Offline osi

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 07:19:51 »
Thank you Andy

Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 15:31:59 »

I've got a couple of questions though:
- why uniqey doesn't offer some standard sets like bow or beige, instead of that discutible purple and gray set? :-)
- are you going to offer a tkl keyboard, instead of those quite unpopular 100% and 65% keyboards?

thanks

Hey! Thanks for your interest. So for starters we have definitely considered carrying "standard" sets that nobody owns (BoW, WoB, Dolch, Beige, etc). I think this would be a good idea as well, we essentially just need to make sure we don't compete with ourselves (as in with the community vendors) as it is extremely important to support the vendors and make them a priority as well. One of the biggest aspects of my job is making sure we support the vendors as best we can, because we see how well they also support the community! I believe the idea of carrying these sets can still be done with some creative design (if we keep them very minimal and price conscious, so it would still make sense to run a "full" or extended/modified version of those classics). So the short answer is yes, this has been mentioned and we have been discussing this for a while now.

Secondly, I will just say that we know our boards currently are fairly niche. The Q100 was never designed specifically for the enthusiast market and the C70 was. Even with the C70 being quite niche, we are very pleased with the final result and we learned a lot in the process. We also learned some changes we would make in the future. And yes, there will be a future, we certainly never planned to stop with the C70. We are currently reworking out entire programming tool GUI (UNIQEY CONTROL) as that was definitely a weak spot in the C70, but completing this will certianly help make future boards better as well!

Just because we may be a bit slower to announce new things definitely doesnt mean we aren't always listening and thinking ahead and designing new things! We will certainly be making big announcements every 2-3 months thoughout the entire next year, even some at the end of this year!

Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 15:34:22 »
Thank you very much for a well elaborated response. Some middlemen running group buys, Drop included, may have a share of how some fellow GHers perceive GMK. Some of us have no information how your Company is dealing with custom orders and  may fill the grays and gaps in unfair ways. This explanation, for example, enlighten us all about the care you put in our community.

Thanks for the response as well! We are active on all the forums (have a subforum here as well) and on most of the Discords as well. Should you, or anyone, have any questions for us or want more insight into what goes on internally I can certainly make myself availalble to answer questions anytime  :thumb:

Offline Sup

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 21 September 2019, 12:11:23 »
Thank you very much for a well elaborated response. Some middlemen running group buys, Drop included, may have a share of how some fellow GHers perceive GMK. Some of us have no information how your Company is dealing with custom orders and  may fill the grays and gaps in unfair ways. This explanation, for example, enlighten us all about the care you put in our community.

Thanks for the response as well! We are active on all the forums (have a subforum here as well) and on most of the Discords as well. Should you, or anyone, have any questions for us or want more insight into what goes on internally I can certainly make myself availalble to answer questions anytime  :thumb:

Not sure if this is done already, But can we have a video tour at GMK/Uniqey? I am very interested how stuff works there to produce these key-caps. If its all confidential stuff i get it :(.
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Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs |
Coming soon Rukia.
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 21 September 2019, 13:08:57 »
Thanks for the glimpse inside how you guys work at GMK Andy! Sorry it had to be a thread like this that started it, but as you can see the OP is not representative of how the community as a whole views you guys. Also I have to second seeing you guys produce & sell more basic sets like WoB, BoW, OG Dolch, classic beige, etc. as "stock sets" I guess we could call them. I really don't think it would cause any conflict with the community designed sets as they are seeming to move away from classic colorways & into crazy custom colors & unexpected yet good looking combos of those. Not to say the community doesn't appreciate those classic colorways, it's just they have all been ran once or twice already & with the influx of new members to the community I think designers need to get even more creative to stand out from the crowd. Honestly IMO, I think we'll see the trend going away from classic understated colorways keep on rolling along for awhile. So you guys producing them as "stock sets" may be people's only chance to get them at a retail pricing till the trends come full circle & take offs of classic colorways picks back up in popularity.

The other thing I would love to see from you guys is PBT & PPS sets in Cherry profile with either doubleshot or dye-subbed legends. PPS in particular as I really think that material has awesomely unique properties for keycaps. I have a set of PPS blanks & the sound they make compare to ABS or PBT is very distinct & pleasing IMO. Anyways, thanks again for the response when the OP really didn't deserve one, & I'll be looking forward to the announcements you mentioned coming up!

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 21 September 2019, 21:13:40 »
Thank you very much for a well elaborated response. Some middlemen running group buys, Drop included, may have a share of how some fellow GHers perceive GMK. Some of us have no information how your Company is dealing with custom orders and  may fill the grays and gaps in unfair ways. This explanation, for example, enlighten us all about the care you put in our community.

Thanks for the response as well! We are active on all the forums (have a subforum here as well) and on most of the Discords as well. Should you, or anyone, have any questions for us or want more insight into what goes on internally I can certainly make myself availalble to answer questions anytime  :thumb:

Oh, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many questions pop into my head. I'll limit myself to one.

Is there a way for guys like us to know whether a particular keycap mold exists or not? For example, if I were to design a keycap set with a shortened Backspace key (1.75U instead of 2.0U) and a "thin ISO" Enter key (1.0/1.25U instead of 1.25/1.5U), who over there could or should I ask?

Offline ideus

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 21 September 2019, 21:22:48 »
Thank you very much for a well elaborated response. Some middlemen running group buys, Drop included, may have a share of how some fellow GHers perceive GMK. Some of us have no information how your Company is dealing with custom orders and  may fill the grays and gaps in unfair ways. This explanation, for example, enlighten us all about the care you put in our community.

Thanks for the response as well! We are active on all the forums (have a subforum here as well) and on most of the Discords as well. Should you, or anyone, have any questions for us or want more insight into what goes on internally I can certainly make myself availalble to answer questions anytime  :thumb:

Oh, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many questions pop into my head. I'll limit myself to one.

Is there a way for guys like us to know whether a particular keycap mold exists or not? For example, if I were to design a keycap set with a shortened Backspace key (1.75U instead of 2.0U) and a "thin ISO" Enter key (1.0/1.25U instead of 1.25/1.5U), who over there could or should I ask?
I always wonder if BAE molds are available and what post-stem distribution they have. The thin ISO would rock too.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 475
Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 22 September 2019, 19:42:33 »

I've got a couple of questions though:
- why uniqey doesn't offer some standard sets like bow or beige, instead of that discutible purple and gray set? :-)
- are you going to offer a tkl keyboard, instead of those quite unpopular 100% and 65% keyboards?

thanks

Hey! Thanks for your interest. So for starters we have definitely considered carrying "standard" sets that nobody owns (BoW, WoB, Dolch, Beige, etc). I think this would be a good idea as well, we essentially just need to make sure we don't compete with ourselves (as in with the community vendors) as it is extremely important to support the vendors and make them a priority as well. One of the biggest aspects of my job is making sure we support the vendors as best we can, because we see how well they also support the community! I believe the idea of carrying these sets can still be done with some creative design (if we keep them very minimal and price conscious, so it would still make sense to run a "full" or extended/modified version of those classics). So the short answer is yes, this has been mentioned and we have been discussing this for a while now.

Hi Andy,

I'm glad to hear this. I've been meaning to pick up Dolch for the longest time. Like a number of users, I plan to mix it with other sets [particularly Honeywell]. But it's a little higher priced and less available than I would like, for such purposes. If it were a regularly produced item, it could be lower-priced and more in-stock. I figure 'Dolch' is one of those 'staple' sets that have wide appeal in a variety of markets, like WoB and BoW, so there could be big runs of it.

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 22 September 2019, 20:54:26 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I feel like everyone much appreciates group buys like KAT milkshake with a ton of kits, but people also seem to love ABS overpriced GMK sets. Why donít we stop doing GMK until they edit their manufacturing process to benefit the community. Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS. Mostly, Iíd just prefer to stop having to buy a million keys I donít want, rarely ever see a ergo set, and hate paying 300$ when there is an ergo set when 50% of those keys wonít get mounted.

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.

We need more DSA, less GMK for group buys.

I just think theres too mucn

Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 15:24:27 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I feel like everyone much appreciates group buys like KAT milkshake with a ton of kits, but people also seem to love ABS overpriced GMK sets. Why donít we stop doing GMK until they edit their manufacturing process to benefit the community. Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS. Mostly, Iíd just prefer to stop having to buy a million keys I donít want, rarely ever see a ergo set, and hate paying 300$ when there is an ergo set when 50% of those keys wonít get mounted.

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.

We need more DSA, less GMK for group buys.

I just think theres too mucn

Again, this is all up to designers (with anybody capable of being one!) simply taking the time to design one and finding out what the community wants! We definitely don't discourage against doing DSA sets, and enjoy seeing when designers run sets on both SP profiles and our profiles and give the community even more options.

I've personally known and talked to Melissa over at SP for years (even took pics in each others gear at the Seattle meetup!) so we have nothing but good will towards them, and don't see them as competition, just as another unique outlet for the community to use to express their creativity. I know we are both just so busy with community orders that it is clear neither of us is taking business from the other even haha. Everyone has just exploded with great creative ideas lately!


Mod edit: fixed quotes
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 September 2019, 16:36:20 by trizkut »

Offline ideus

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 16:16:45 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I feel like everyone much appreciates group buys like KAT milkshake with a ton of kits, but people also seem to love ABS overpriced GMK sets. Why donít we stop doing GMK until they edit their manufacturing process to benefit the community. Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS. Mostly, Iíd just prefer to stop having to buy a million keys I donít want, rarely ever see a ergo set, and hate paying 300$ when there is an ergo set when 50% of those keys wonít get mounted.

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.

We need more DSA, less GMK for group buys.

I just think theres too mucn

Again, this is all up to designers (with anybody capable of being one!) simply taking the time to design one and finding out what the community wants! We definitely don't discourage against doing DSA sets, and enjoy seeing when designers run sets on both SP profiles and our profiles and give the community even more options.

I've personally known and talked to Melissa over at SP for years (even took pics in each others gear at the Seattle meetup!) so we have nothing but good will towards them, and don't see them as competition, just as another unique outlet for the community to use to express their creativity. I know we are both just so busy with community orders that it is clear neither of us is taking business from the other even haha. Everyone has just exploded with great creative ideas lately!
It is interesting to see that you live in US. Maybe you are American as well. That speaks about the interest GMK has in the US keeb community as well as in the EU's. Kudos.


Mod edit: fixed quotes
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 September 2019, 16:36:47 by trizkut »

Offline switchnollie

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 16:45:06 »
It is interesting to see that you live in US. Maybe you are American as well.

It's livingspeedbump brotha, Honeywell 😎


Keyboards: GON NS NerD Crystal TKL & OTD 356CL Dark Greyhat Edition, baybee!

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 17:28:08 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I feel like everyone much appreciates group buys like KAT milkshake with a ton of kits, but people also seem to love ABS overpriced GMK sets. Why donít we stop doing GMK until they edit their manufacturing process to benefit the community. Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS. Mostly, Iíd just prefer to stop having to buy a million keys I donít want, rarely ever see a ergo set, and hate paying 300$ when there is an ergo set when 50% of those keys wonít get mounted.

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.

We need more DSA, less GMK for group buys.

I just think theres too mucn

Again, this is all up to designers (with anybody capable of being one!) simply taking the time to design one and finding out what the community wants! We definitely don't discourage against doing DSA sets, and enjoy seeing when designers run sets on both SP profiles and our profiles and give the community even more options.

I've personally known and talked to Melissa over at SP for years (even took pics in each others gear at the Seattle meetup!) so we have nothing but good will towards them, and don't see them as competition, just as another unique outlet for the community to use to express their creativity. I know we are both just so busy with community orders that it is clear neither of us is taking business from the other even haha. Everyone has just exploded with great creative ideas lately!
It is interesting to see that you live in US. Maybe you are American as well. That speaks about the interest GMK has in the US keeb community as well as in the EU's. Kudos.


Mod edit: fixed quotes


Canada ain't have much.

Offline ideus

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 18:14:32 »
Thank you for the kind "quoting-fix". Confused: It was my fault...?  :-[

Offline woodruff

  • Posts: 37
Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 07:00:39 »
Anyone else annoyed with how 1. Expensive GMK sets are and 2. How many keys you get that you really donít need? 3. That instead of the manufacturer working to meet the needs of customers.... customers are going out of their way to meet the needs of a company.... this seems backwards to capitalism (whether or not you agree with capitalism doesnít matter).

I feel like everyone much appreciates group buys like KAT milkshake with a ton of kits, but people also seem to love ABS overpriced GMK sets. Why donít we stop doing GMK until they edit their manufacturing process to benefit the community. Or better yet someone create a better company that puts GMK out of business. I would love quality, thick, cherry keycaps in PBT instead of ABS. Mostly, Iíd just prefer to stop having to buy a million keys I donít want, rarely ever see a ergo set, and hate paying 300$ when there is an ergo set when 50% of those keys wonít get mounted.

I can already foresee this post being crapped on and people telling me thatís just how it is, GMK isnít gonna change so just get over it. That attitude is what screws us and letís them profit off our laziness.

We need more DSA, less GMK for group buys.

I just think theres too mucn

Again, this is all up to designers (with anybody capable of being one!) simply taking the time to design one and finding out what the community wants! We definitely don't discourage against doing DSA sets, and enjoy seeing when designers run sets on both SP profiles and our profiles and give the community even more options.

I've personally known and talked to Melissa over at SP for years (even took pics in each others gear at the Seattle meetup!) so we have nothing but good will towards them, and don't see them as competition, just as another unique outlet for the community to use to express their creativity. I know we are both just so busy with community orders that it is clear neither of us is taking business from the other even haha. Everyone has just exploded with great creative ideas lately!


Mod edit: fixed quotes

Not sculpted sets are painful to use, they just feel stupid.

And about your love for SP (or for Melissa)... :-) well, the keycap market for quality sets is just a duopoly for now. You can't even supply enough keycaps to the market. So of course you love your fellow SP guys :p

We'll see in some years, maybe we'll have many gmk copycats, like it happened with cherry switches and the chinese clone brands.

Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 12:27:32 »
Thank you for the kind "quoting-fix". Confused: It was my fault...?  :-[

Pretty sure it was my bad :confused:


Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 12:30:24 »
It is interesting to see that you live in US. Maybe you are American as well. That speaks about the interest GMK has in the US keeb community as well as in the EU's. Kudos.

I do indeed live in the US, in fact moved quite a ways away with my family for GMK. The level at which they are commited to the community and learning how to better serve the community is more important to GMK than most people know. Instead of saying why I believe this though, I'll just let folks see all that happens in the comming year(s) and let them make up their own minds! ;D

Offline spakecdk

  • Posts: 53
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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 29 September 2019, 16:58:48 »
The irony that actually buying the compatibility in KAT Milkshake that you need makes it more expensive than a GMK set... just sayin.

Offline billnye

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 30 September 2019, 12:19:25 »
So for starters we have definitely considered carrying "standard" sets that nobody owns (BoW, WoB, Dolch, Beige, etc).

I would certainly be interested in picking up a few of these sets if y'all decide to go through with it!

Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 01 October 2019, 11:56:21 »
So for starters we have definitely considered carrying "standard" sets that nobody owns (BoW, WoB, Dolch, Beige, etc).

I would certainly be interested in picking up a few of these sets if y'all decide to go through with it!

I think it will happen, just need to figure out how to best do it (and find time on the lines to create some sets for us internally, currently they are all being used to capacity for community sets!)

Offline Auxo

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 01 October 2019, 19:23:52 »
So for starters we have definitely considered carrying "standard" sets that nobody owns (BoW, WoB, Dolch, Beige, etc).

I would certainly be interested in picking up a few of these sets if y'all decide to go through with it!

I think it will happen, just need to figure out how to best do it (and find time on the lines to create some sets for us internally, currently they are all being used to capacity for community sets!)

My boi comin through. I would absolutely love to see more classic CWs become obtainable to newer audiences. I hate seeing the retail values of so many great sets shoot above a reasonable amount (GMK 9009 R1 cough cough)
IBM Model F AT - Dell AT101 Linearised - KBD67 HSE Linjšrs LZ-FE | TGR Jane V2 CE | Dolphin Linger 2017 | Duck Lightsaver V3 | Kira80 | HHKB pro 2 | Southpaw 65+ | NIU MINI | Mountain | TX-1800 V2 | ZZ96 | Mira SE | SK0G | VE.A | TG3 BL82 | Octagon V2 | Singa PC | Alice | Volcano | Fjell | TMO50 | Ares | Pearl |TGR-Alice | TGR-Jane v2 | TGR-Jane v2 CE | Kyuu Proto 005 | Seulgi | Nayeon | Seulgi v2 | 420.2 | hbcp | Nunu
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Poker 2 | LZ CE | Leopold FC700R | KMAC 1.2 | EXE | GON NS87 | GON Nerd TKL | Duck Poker | Duck Orion | Realforce 87u 55g | OTD 456GT | LZ B7 | OTD 360C | Ducky G2 Pro | Apple Extended | Apple M0116 | Apple M0116 | Cherry G80-1220HAD | Duck Octagon | HHKB Pro 2 | Duck Unicorn | LZ B8 | LZ RE | ENVKX | OTD 456GT | LZ FE | HHKB Type S | TX1800| Duck Orion V2 | LZ FE | KPad | KMAC Happy | ENVKX | LZ RV | KMAC 2 | Whale | Dolphin | EM7 | TGR Jane | VE.A | DK Saver | Matrix 10xv1.0 | Whale | HHKB BT | Dolphin v2 | EM7 v2 | SSK | SSK (Blue Label) | LZ SQ | Duck Octagon v2 | TX84 | GON Mobik | TX-CP | LZ Ergo2 | KMAC Happy HHKB | TGR 910 | TGR Tris | Matrix 8xv1.2 | KMAC Mini | Mira | Fjell | 356mini | Dolphin GH | EM7 GH | TARO EXENT | Masterkey Pro L Crysta l OTD Koala | Duck Viper | Keycult no.1 | 356mini | 356pad | Matrix 8xv2.0 | 420cl | Matrix 8xv1.0 | Whale Special | Poly Dolphin | Keycult No.2 | FMJ80 | Singa R2 Quickfire Pro | TADA 68 | Novatouch | Whitefox | Octagon v1 | Blackbird | HHKB Pro 2 | KBD75 | VE.A | X60 | Canoe | HHKB Pro 1 | FJELL | Revo One | ALPS64 | Lightsaver v3 | IBM 5140 WKL | Realforce 87u | MIRA SE | Duck Poker | Canoe | Moon | Weaven | M65-A | EXENT | Wooden Planck | Tokyo60| Viper v1 | E6-v2 | IBM SSK | CA66 | TX-CP | SINGA | TGR Alice | FJELL R2 | Klippe | JER-A06 | GSKT-00 | M60-A | Realforce 84u | AL1 | Keycult No. 1 | SaiB-CP | G81-3077SAU | DC60 | Realforce 84ub | TMO50 | G80-1800 | Leaf 80 | LZ GH-v2 | T60 | LZ MP | KMAC Happy | TGR-910RE (Al) | TGR-910RE (PC) | SKB60 | UNIKORN | TGR Jane v2 | Xeno

Offline senencito1

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 02 October 2019, 13:38:10 »
This was a surprisingly interesting read Andy.

Thank you for the insightful responses.


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Offline GMK_Andy

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 02 October 2019, 13:46:31 »
Thanks for the responses folks  :thumb:

Again, always looking for any feedback or suggestions you may have. We know we aren't perfect, but we are certainly always looking for ways to improve!

You can always DM me here, find me on Discord (Andy | GMK Electronic Design #5271 - I am not great at this, may be a bit slow) or email me directly (link in profile!).

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: Playing into GMKs hands....
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 02 October 2019, 13:58:31 »
Expect a DM with a "laundry list" of questions of mine in a little while... :-D