Author Topic: waffling60: solder and hotswap (two versions) MX 60% PCB, ANSI & ISO  (Read 1576 times)

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Offline Applet

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  • Location: Sweden
Intro:
So, a bit of a change in the project (previously SteezyHS). I decided to make two versions. One hotswap and one solder. The two boards have the same layout options and features. To fit all the layout options on the hotswap PCB, switch rotations are north, south and 90-degree. There are some issues with this to be aware of, so check that out first if unsure. All switches on solder pcb are north-facing.

Specs:
  • ATmega32U2 with QMK support both in QFP and QFN
  • Standard tray mount
  • RGB-led close to capslock-switch
  • Common ANSI and ISO layout support
  • Split space
  • USB-C
  • Reset button under spacebar
  • JST-connector for USB daughter board
  • Open Source

Current status of PCB
Order prototypes

PCB:
235103-0
235105-1

Layout support:
234116-2

Repo:
https://github.com/4pplet/waffling60
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 February 2020, 03:57:07 by Applet »

Online yui

  • Posts: 159
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Looks very nice, but heard (read) that GMK keycaps are crashing on backward switches (diodes away from the user i think), and your board seem to have quite a few depending on layout, i have not tried 1st hand and i do not know if it only affects some switches or only 1u but it might be worth considering/trying out on your prototype.
I would love for it to work, but there might be other issues, i have not yet had any experiences with smaller than tkl keyboards.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Applet

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Thanks! :D Good input

Yes, I am aware of this issue with GMK keycaps, but there is no good way around that with this layout support. My thinking is that, if this is a problem, there is other hot swap PCB's with less layout support.

As of my understanding, this is mainly on row 3, right? So if using ISO and non stepped caps, this will be an issue with GMK.
« Last Edit: Thu, 23 January 2020, 07:33:14 by Applet »

Online yui

  • Posts: 159
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
if it is mainly on row 3 the only issue would be the normal caps lock, no? i feel like the big iso enter key should not interfere with switches at all and you do not seem to have any other backward on row 3? or am i counting the row wrong?
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Applet

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For row 3 these two keys are rotated "south facing":
234122-0

Tho it seems also row 4 is affected with GMK and south facing switches also: https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/8hn0o8/cherry_r4_keycap_rubs_against_northfacing_mx/

But my thinking is, if this is an issue, there are other hot swap PCB's with fixed layouts. Reasonable? If I were to use only north facing switches and the layout I want to use, it would be only fixed layout :( It seems to vary a lot in how much people feel/care about this issue/interference.
« Last Edit: Thu, 23 January 2020, 08:14:50 by Applet »

Online yui

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  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
So yeah i did read the pcb wrong, i just brought that issue up as you seemed to ask about potential issues we would see, i am not a big fan a cherry profile and rather have a spherical profile, so it seem like a good trade off to me, and even for peoples who like cherry there are keysets with thinner walled key that are not reported with the same issue, or maybe some light sanding of the keycap / switch if it comes to that.

when you have done your testing are you planing on launching a gb? or leave it for the community to build them from source?

I always like having options so for me it looks like a good idea.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline equalunique

  • Posts: 443
Both OLKB and NovelKeys stock special thin O-rings designed to prevent the GMK/north-facing switch issue. These mitigate the problem for me, although the risk of accidentally losing those tiny O-rings when swapping switches would present an inconvenience.

I for one am excited by the overall layouts offered.

Sent from my Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 using Tapatalk


Offline Applet

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  • Location: Sweden
Both OLKB and NovelKeys stock special thin O-rings designed to prevent the GMK/north-facing switch issue. These mitigate the problem for me, although the risk of accidentally losing those tiny O-rings when swapping switches would present an inconvenience.

I for one am excited by the overall layouts offered.

Sent from my Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 using Tapatalk


Yes, the tiny spacers for keycaps should solve the issue also. Good point.

So yeah i did read the pcb wrong, i just brought that issue up as you seemed to ask about potential issues we would see, i am not a big fan a cherry profile and rather have a spherical profile, so it seem like a good trade off to me, and even for peoples who like cherry there are keysets with thinner walled key that are not reported with the same issue, or maybe some light sanding of the keycap / switch if it comes to that.

when you have done your testing are you planing on launching a gb? or leave it for the community to build them from source?

I always like having options so for me it looks like a good idea.
I will be making releases with gerbers and everything needed to build and order, so anyone is free to build them from source. If there is interest, we can at least do a small limited GB if I find a suitable manufacturer ;D

Offline RETURNISO

  • Posts: 522
  • Location: [ NOR ] ISO
  • I do get excited about keyboard stuff..
Great work, HS ISO with tsangan bottom row :eek:

Yes, ill buy one 

Offline Applet

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  • Location: Sweden
I'll will also look into making a FR4-plate for tray mount, to go with the layout support of the PCB. I'll post it when I have a draft of it for feedback  :D

Offline equalunique

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I'll will also look into making a FR4-plate for tray mount, to go with the layout support of the PCB. I'll post it when I have a draft of it for feedback  :D
Never been so excited about an FR4 plate in my life

Sent from my Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 using Tapatalk


Offline Applet

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So, I noticed I made a blunder and removed the stabilizer for the ISO-enter at some point and now I ran in to some issues. The stabilizers for ISO-enter interferes with the current placement of the sockets.

As I see it, I have three options:
1: Skip PCB stabilizers for ISO enter
2: Rotate 4 switches 90 degrees (like on the CU65), there are documented issues, but reading the CU65-thread, people claim this is a non-issue.
3: Make two versions, one ISO, one ANSI

How it would look with rotated switches:
234243-0

I am not a fan of 90-degree rotation of switches or plate mount stabilizers, so I'm leaning towards making two versions of the PCB, but of course I'd love to keep it as a one "do it all" design.

I'd love to hear your input and if I'm overlooking something.


I put together a plate (both ANSI and ISO), still need to check with fab so it is ok to manufacture.
234332-1
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 January 2020, 10:01:26 by Applet »

Offline Applet

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I will make a few test PCB's and plate with all the layout options and the 90-degree rotated switches. It's worth a try ;D

Will update when I get them and start testing.

Offline Applet

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I will be making a solder only PCB with the exact same layout options, features and plate (same matrix, everything), but not hotswap and only north facing switches. Really need to come up with a better name  :-[
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 January 2020, 06:18:55 by Applet »

Offline Applet

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Re: waffling60: solder and hotswap (two versions) MX 60% PCB, ANSI & ISO
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 04 February 2020, 03:52:35 »
I did a update of main post. Went with 90-degree rotation on some of the hot-swap switches (not sure if wise) and did a solder only PCB. Will order PCB's and FR4-plate this week.

Offline equalunique

  • Posts: 443
Re: waffling60: solder and hotswap (two versions) MX 60% PCB, ANSI & ISO
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 04 February 2020, 10:56:10 »
I did a update of main post. Went with 90-degree rotation on some of the hot-swap switches (not sure if wise) and did a solder only PCB. Will order PCB's and FR4-plate this week.
Awesome! This will be the dream 60% PCB.