Author Topic: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?  (Read 2873 times)

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Offline madno

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Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« on: Mon, 10 February 2020, 05:33:13 »
Hello all,

new here and already bothering you with questions. Hope that is ok.

I have a Sharkoon Purewriter RGB Keyboard (low profile) with Kailh blue switches. So far I like it, but I think I got a bit infected with how to optimize they typing feel.

Usage:
  • mainly 10 finger typing
  • gaming is not a main concern
  • I nearly never use multimedia buttons etc.
Why I am thinking about a replacement:
  • the switches have a "hard" ground hit when fully pressed. It is not really an issue but are there switches that are a bit softer when they hit the ground?
  • the force to press the switches is a tiny bit to weak. I would love if there would be a bit more resistance.
  • activation time after reboot of PC is long. I have to wait for the keyboard even though all other devices (CAD mouse and Spacenavigator for 3D operation) are already active (but that might not be an issue of the keyboard).
What I like:
  • low profile - I don't need a wrist support thing with this keyboard
  • click sound - feels so nostalgic
  • USB cable - no need to fiddle with wireless stuff
  • full layout with num pad and F keys - I use those often
  • RGB - especially on the switches (working in a dimmly light room often)
  • switches are not "flat" but have this "inwards bulge" like the original old IBM keyboards
Maybe somebody can suggest products that keep "what I like" but add what I am searching for?

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 10 February 2020, 07:37:38 »
Hello all,

new here and already bothering you with questions. Hope that is ok.

forums are made to ask question, and if you bother someone they can go ahead and ignore your topic

I have a Sharkoon Purewriter RGB Keyboard (low profile) with Kailh blue switches. So far I like it, but I think I got a bit infected with how to optimize they typing feel.
{...}

Maybe somebody can suggest products that keep "what I like" but add what I am searching for?

i will not give you a recommendation for a keyboard specifically because i do not fell like i know enough of them but i will try to help you choose.

Usage:
  • mainly 10 finger typing
  • gaming is not a main concern
  • I nearly never use multimedia buttons etc.

so pretty much like most of us (most not all)

Why I am thinking about a replacement:
  • the switches have a "hard" ground hit when fully pressed. It is not really an issue but are there switches that are a bit softer when they hit the ground?
that will be pretty much all unmodified classical mechanical switches (MX-like, Alps-like and buckling spring) so you seem to want rubber domes (some are really good)
  • the force to press the switches is a tiny bit to weak. I would love if there would be a bit more resistance.
  • activation time after reboot of PC is long. I have to wait for the keyboard even though all other devices (CAD mouse and Spacenavigator for 3D operation) are already active (but that might not be an issue of the keyboard).
if i recall correctly blues have a force of 55g so if you keep the mx-like you could go with greens (80g) or novelkeys/kaihl box switches
What I like:
  • low profile - I don't need a wrist support thing with this keyboard
pretty much all off the shelves mechs have the same height so similar to the one you use right now i guess
   
  • click sound - feels so nostalgic
as far as i know good rubber dome and clicky are pretty much exclusive of one another (may be wrong others may know better)
  • USB cable - no need to fiddle with wireless stuff
  • full layout with num pad and F keys - I use those often
  • RGB - especially on the switches (working in a dimmly light room often)
  • switches are not "flat" but have this "inwards bulge" like the original old IBM keyboards
all of the rest seems pretty reasonable, i think when you are saying "inward bulge" you mean sculpted, on modern board it is mostly done with the keycaps, i guess you would want the cherry profile, it is closest to the old IBMs or you could always get a unicomp if you like model Ms (new) or there is a group buy going on to remake the smaller model F (F66 and F72)

hope this helps

(edit: removed an extra [/quote])
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 10 February 2020, 08:33:34 »
yui's response is great. I would just add that if you do go with heavier switches as you want, they should bottom out softer by default, since it requires more force to even get them to bottom out in the first place.

If you haven't, I would also get a switch tester with at least a few of the switches you think you may be interested in. Personally, outside of the Cherry reds in my gaming rig, I have converted entirely over to box jades or navies in my modern boards.

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 11 February 2020, 03:21:36 »
Many thanks for your information.

Do you know a site (preferably in the EU) where I can order a switch tester with maybe the option to choose which switches I like?

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 11 February 2020, 05:30:52 »
I had ordered mine from kprepublic (china), it is missing some switches (the classic colors in gateron) but i could maybe send it to you, depending on shipping prices (i am in france)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 11:46:52 »
Hello yui,

sorry for late reply. Many thanks for your offer, appreciate it.
Do you mean I can buy your set or do need it back afterwards?
In any case I am interested  :)

How could it be handled?

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 01:04:36 »
i do not need it anymore but it is not complete, i was not really planing on selling either, apart if you shipping end up being horrendously expensive. PM me at least your country at 1st so i can know how much shipping will cost.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 10:21:14 »
Yui sent me his tester and I am now testing which switches I like.

It seems, one from Kailh is it for me.
On the list are:
- Navy
- Box Navy
- Box Pale Blue
- Box Jade

But I can't find keyboards with them:
I am searching for a full size keyboard with RGB backlight.

Is there a way to get such a keyboard at all somewhere (especially with RGB)?


Off Topic:
Is there a way to disable the Verification Letter Thing? I sometimes need three attempts to get them right.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 10:35:20 »
Yui sent me his tester and I am now testing which switches I like.

It seems, one from Kailh is it for me.
On the list are:
- Navy
- Box Navy
- Box Pale Blue
- Box Jade

But I can't find keyboards with them:
I am searching for a full size keyboard with RGB backlight.

Is there a way to get such a keyboard at all somewhere (especially with RGB)?


Off Topic:
Is there a way to disable the Verification Letter Thing? I sometimes need three attempts to get them right.

There are very few hotswap fullsizes, especially those that have RGB. I found this one. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952663095.html
You can get it with Kailh BOX White, and it can hot-swapped to fit other switches such as the ones you listed. It can be bought with either a blue or white backlight.

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 11:35:04 »
i think you can get the gmmk with kailh box but i am not sure of the selection, there are also a few vendors that offer building services, so you can get a keyboard to your specifications and the letter thing goes away at 5 or 10 post i think, and off topic does not count
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 12:27:12 »
There's at least one board that comes stock with box jades on Amazon. I forget which, but it isn't hard to find with a quick search. I think it is around $100 or more though. There's at least one board under $50, but that just has box whites.

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 21 February 2020, 05:03:34 »
I think I need more help.

I can get the "glorious gmmk full size"; even German online shops have it.

But switches and keycaps are challenging. The shops which sell the GMMK with switches and caps do not have the Kailhs I like to get.

Question now is, what do I need to buy - and from where?

Let's say I like to get:
- Box Jade
- Box Pale Plue
- a keycap set in black that supports the RGB and German layout (we have those ... characters).
(I like those pudding caps but it seems they are not available for German keyboard layouts)

I am confused by the various different sets and altering switch and cap namings I found in various shops.

Thanks for help.

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 21 February 2020, 05:26:00 »
for a keycap set in german i think that german sites would be the best place to look at, for the gmmk you can order it without switches and buy the switches after as it is hotswapable, like any hotswap keyboard you can change the switches on the fly, and i know that on their site they do sell the keycaps separately as well but it is a US import at that point (with the extra charges that does incur), also the gmmk does have an issue with pcb mount switches, the 2 extra plastic pins need to be cut for them to work in it

the GMMK cutsomizer:
https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/gmmk-full-brown-switch#customize

although for the accented characters i ended up going for US-iso and using the international US layout in windows so that i can still make them and enjoy pretty much any keycaps set (still having trouble with ansi though)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 21 February 2020, 07:16:59 »
I think I need more help.

I can get the "glorious gmmk full size"; even German online shops have it.

But switches and keycaps are challenging. The shops which sell the GMMK with switches and caps do not have the Kailhs I like to get.

Question now is, what do I need to buy - and from where?

Let's say I like to get:
- Box Jade
- Box Pale Plue
- a keycap set in black that supports the RGB and German layout (we have those ... characters).
(I like those pudding caps but it seems they are not available for German keyboard layouts)

I am confused by the various different sets and altering switch and cap namings I found in various shops.

Thanks for help.

Box Jades, for certain, are available on Amazon, Ebay, and from Novelkeys directly. I imagine that pale blues are at least on Ebay as well as Novelkeys, not sure about Amazon. There seem to be other specialized switch retailers that carry box switches as well though, I just don't recall the names offhand.

I don't think that any of the box clickbar switches have the pcb mount post things, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 21 February 2020, 10:35:54 »
Thanks for your inputs.

After further searching and reading (and having a look at the sample switches), I am sure the box switches are not PCB. So, no problem regarding this.

RGB compatible caps with ISO-DE layout are only sparse. But there is one ABS version that I can get with the barebone board.

Ordered a few test switches and the GMMK board. Lets see how it goes (not sure about the "heavy switches" yet).

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 21 February 2020, 10:44:30 »
Thanks for your inputs.

After further searching and reading (and having a look at the sample switches), I am sure the box switches are not PCB. So, no problem regarding this.

RGB compatible caps with ISO-DE layout are only sparse. But there is one ABS version that I can get with the barebone board.

Ordered a few test switches and the GMMK board. Lets see how it goes (not sure about the "heavy switches" yet).

Goodluck, and enjoy. What do you mean by heavy switches? I only consider the navies to be particularly heavy, when it comes to the sum of its parts. They feel and sound fantastic, but they're definitely pretty stiff. I got used to them pretty quickly though, which was not the case with any heavy linears.

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 23 February 2020, 01:47:13 »
I am not familiar with the keyboard jargon (new to this) so, heavy might have been the wrong term. I think I mean the overall feel when pressing the key. In my Sharkoon there are Blue clicky switches. They are not bad but give very little resitance when I press them. I would explain the feel as nice but to light. After more reading I learned that the spring in some of the switches I like from the tester are actually not really heavy. But the overall feel with clickbar (right term ?) etc. makes them feel what I called heavy. But, as you mentioned "stiff" might be the better term for it.

Anyway, this keyboard thing is something I did not investigate in the past. I used whatever was available. When I build my new PC I bought the Sharcoon because it was on sale and had RGB ;-)
I thought "well, try it" but expected I would go back to the rubber dome I used before (muscle memory etc.). But, after the first few minutes of using it, I was sure I don't want to use the old keyboard anymore. I was totally suprised how different and better the typing felt. And then after using the Sharkoon for some time I knew I have to investigate a bit more regarding the switches (at the time I called them "keys" which made googleing a bit hit and miss).

Really looking forward to the test switches and the GMMK.

And thanks to YUI for sending the tester.

Give me a ping if you know somebody who needs it. I am happy to send it to the next one who might have not yet decided to buy her / his own tester.
« Last Edit: Sun, 23 February 2020, 01:52:38 by madno »

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 24 February 2020, 02:10:22 »
in cherry compatible land there are 2 click mechanism, the click jacket that cherry used for the longest time and the click bar/spring that kailh is using on some switches both mechanism have their problems, the click jacket makes for a plasticy sound and overall weaker click while the clickbar can be very out of sync with actuation.
and yeah usually peoples call stronger springs "heavier" and weaker spring "lighter", technically not quite the right terminology but it is what we have.
for the tester there is a "pay it forward" thread somewhere if you want to get it to the next person as fast as possible, otherwise you can wait for someone to start a thread like this one.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 24 February 2020, 08:06:04 »
Are there any clickbar switches that are supposed to actuate out of sync with the click in particular? I can't find any navies or jades that do, across multiple boards.

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 25 February 2020, 02:08:09 »
Are there any clickbar switches that are supposed to actuate out of sync with the click in particular? I can't find any navies or jades that do, across multiple boards.

some peoples report that their box switches do. the consensus seems that box heavies are the worst offenders, that problem is inherent in the design though, you have nothing linking the click spring and actuation mechanism so they may get out of sync. although it seems that kailh is doing a decent job of keeping that low as most peoples only have a few at maximum on a board with that problem.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 01 March 2020, 00:06:14 »
Got the sample switches and have put them on the GMMK.

Interesting how different 10 sample switches on a board feel compared to one switch in a tester.

Got Kailh Box Jade and Box Navy - 10 pieces each.

My problem now is:
I think I like the Navies more.
The click of the Jades feels a bit more scratchy and they sound to sharp.
But the Navies might be to heavy in the end.

So, question is, can you suggest a switch like the Navy that is a bit lighter and maybe a bit quiter and supports backlight rgb?

(did not expect that searching for a keyboard replacement would become that complex)

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 02 March 2020, 01:02:44 »
after a bit of digging i managed to find a thread with the different flavors or kailh box clickbar switches: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93553.0
so you ended up with the heavy clickbar switches if they feel too heavy you may want to try the light blue or even white switches, or if you like the jade and opening switches is not  a deal breaker for you, you can lube them so they do not feel as scratchy (i have never done it though).
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 03 March 2020, 10:33:04 »
Got the sample switches and have put them on the GMMK.

Interesting how different 10 sample switches on a board feel compared to one switch in a tester.

Got Kailh Box Jade and Box Navy - 10 pieces each.

My problem now is:
I think I like the Navies more.
The click of the Jades feels a bit more scratchy and they sound to sharp.
But the Navies might be to heavy in the end.

So, question is, can you suggest a switch like the Navy that is a bit lighter and maybe a bit quiter and supports backlight rgb?

(did not expect that searching for a keyboard replacement would become that complex)

Never noticed jades feeling scratchier or smoother than any others in the box design. The navies definitely have a more refined balance between clickbar and spring weight though. What I have always wanted to try myself is ordering some intermediate weight springs between the jades and navies and swap them into some switches to play with.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 03 March 2020, 10:43:31 »
Navies are a little heavy with prolonged typing. 67-70g seems to be my preferred weighting. I'm considering getting Navies, but Haata's force curve and the Novelkeys specs say different things. Haata's says 70g bottom out while Novelkeys says 90g.

Offline yui

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 04 March 2020, 00:52:59 »
Navies are a little heavy with prolonged typing. 67-70g seems to be my preferred weighting. I'm considering getting Navies, but Haata's force curve and the Novelkeys specs say different things. Haata's says 70g bottom out while Novelkeys says 90g.
my guess would be that 90g would be the actuation force? as it would have both heavy spring and heavy clickbar acting making the force higher than bottom out with only the return spring acting. and those switches are made by kaihua for novelkey, so i guess novelkey should be right about their weighting
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 08 March 2020, 16:39:23 »
Guess what, I just ordered Box Navies. Maybe I do not like them in the end, but at least they are in stock. The GMMK is looking naked with only the ten Jade and Navy test switches.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 08 March 2020, 22:00:59 »
Guess what, I just ordered Box Navies. Maybe I do not like them in the end, but at least they are in stock. The GMMK is looking naked with only the ten Jade and Navy test switches.

Navies are fantastic. It would be hard to dislike them. You just may have a problem acclimating to typing on them for extended periods. For some reason, doing so didn't seem to bother me at all.

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 00:44:15 »
Got the switches.
First impression - they are heavy, very heavy. I'll use them for some time and see how it feels after getting used to it. But regarding the overall feel they are great. No wobble and nice sound.

But, what I already now is that I need to find keycaps which don't have this strong sculpt with sharp edges. Unfortunately there seems to be nothing available for RGB and German layout.

Offline typo

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 22 March 2020, 09:59:59 »
You might like Halo True. They are made for registering without bottoming out. They are on the heavy side but by no means very heavy. They are tactile but really linear. Or you can make pandas with them too. I am sorry for so many answers!

Offline madno

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 27 March 2020, 03:36:25 »
Sorry for late reply.
Thanks for the tip. I ordered a pack. Looking forward to get them.

By the way, after using the Navies for some time they don't feel that heavy anymore.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Replacement for Sharkoon Purewriter RGB suggestions ?
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 27 March 2020, 06:48:54 »
Sorry for late reply.
Thanks for the tip. I ordered a pack. Looking forward to get them.

By the way, after using the Navies for some time they don't feel that heavy anymore.

That was exactly my experience. For some reason, with heavy linears, not only are they more tiring, but I'm less likely to bother trying to get used to them to resolve that. The Box Navies just took a little adjustment. I imagine people that are used to Cherry MX red, or something, may not adjust very easily though.