Author Topic: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad  (Read 3241 times)

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Offline OldIsNew

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Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« on: Sun, 16 February 2020, 11:42:57 »
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I picked up a Cherry G80-11900LUMEU-2 with Cherry MX black switches for cheap. I mainly got it because although I have quite a number of boards, I didn't have any with Cherry MX and wanted to give them a try. It's a native USB board so I'm sure these must be "modern" MX black switches rather than "vintage." From what I've read and heard about these switches I was expecting a real horror show, but they're really not that bad IMO. I do hear the scratchy sound people refer to but I really don't feel it. The switches are on the heavy side, but I don't do any serious prolonged typing so that doesn't bother me. I don't think I'd go out of my way to look for another board with these switches, but I don't think they're as bad as they are sometimes made out to be.
« Last Edit: Sun, 16 February 2020, 11:45:56 by OldIsNew »

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 16 February 2020, 12:18:17 »
Yes, I agree that the scratchy designation is partially due to sound and not feel alone.  I have some really scratchy gateron switches, and I experimented by putting on headphones... they felt great :)

Offline Sup

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 16 February 2020, 13:02:47 »
Yeah they are not a bad switch at all but i always do spring swap them to make it more comfortable to type on. instead of the 80g spring stock i put in a 60g. Very nicely balanced not to heavy and not to light to make mistakes while typing.
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Offline gipetto

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 16 February 2020, 17:48:51 »
It's difficult for manufacturers to screw up a linear switch design. clickies on the other hand can click before the actuation point or lose the click altogether though damage. i guess a lot of the issues with keyboards are merely psychosomatic. many seem to have no sense of good enough, the more they have the more they want.

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 16 February 2020, 20:58:37 »
Cherry MX can be wildly inconsistent between batches. Some are really smooth, others feel like they have dirt in them.
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Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 17 February 2020, 07:14:30 »
Even cherry boards older than a few years feel miles better than any brand new ones in my opinion. If the board sees considerable usage over about a years time, the switches usually smooth themselves out well enough, in my experience (ymmv).

Picking up these sorts of old cherry boards cheap always served me well when I needed switches, they've felt pretty good to me, haven't gotten a dud just yet.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 17 February 2020, 14:11:48 »
Do people even consider modern blacks to be terrible? While I can't really tell any difference between modern and "vintage", I just hate the weight coupled with linears, it gets tiring. That's a personal thing though. (almost) Any Cherry MX is good enough. I've recently found Outemu blues to feel really good for clicky Cherry clones though, way better than the real ones.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 17 February 2020, 19:28:11 »
Do people even consider modern blacks to be terrible? While I can't really tell any difference between modern and "vintage", I just hate the weight coupled with linears, it gets tiring. That's a personal thing though. (almost) Any Cherry MX is good enough. I've recently found Outemu blues to feel really good for clicky Cherry clones though, way better than the real ones.

Modern Blacks were supposed to be retooled, but the quality of the switches has deteriorated since their initial release. Vintage are smoother than pretooled, the same as good retooled batches, and more than what you get now. Cherry MX as a whole is fine, there isn't anything wrong with them. They don't have the best feel, but they are relatively inexpensive and good enough for most people.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 08:17:49 »
I have brand new, and used, black switches from various years since the millenium (thanks to surplus TG3 keyboards), and two boards worth of "vintage" blacks from Unitek K-151Ls. I can't tell a difference in aggregate. From one switch to other, some feel better than others, but I can't say one board feels any better than another overall.

Offline typo

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 08:34:45 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 08:46:47 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

I have seen your old posts about them. They haven't really dried up, if you get the surplus TG3 boards. I got two brand new 2001-vintage BL82 keyboards in the box on Ebay for less than $50 each just recently. Shouldn't really need NKRO for much other than gaming. I swapped box jades into a BL82, which I also modded a 5-pin din jack into so I can just use midi cables with a ps2 adapter. I also swapped box jades into one of the "cop keyboards" for htpc purposes, with an aviator jack, though I may try to convert it to bluetooth at some point. I also cut the domes off of the silicone mat to keep the water/dust resistance in conjunction with the ip56 rating of the jades, without losing their feel. I used quality leaded solder, so they should basically last forever now.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 09:21:38 »
I have brand new, and used, black switches from various years since the millenium (thanks to surplus TG3 keyboards), and two boards worth of "vintage" blacks from Unitek K-151Ls. I can't tell a difference in aggregate. From one switch to other, some feel better than others, but I can't say one board feels any better than another overall.

I think telling smoothness is pretty varied from one user to another. I can barely feel the supposed scratchiness to various switches reported as such. I primarily used heavy heavy switches and worked pretty laborious jobs previously, so I almost feel that my sensitivity is lower than a lot of people for this sort of thing because of those 2 factors.

I use much lighter switches now after getting a real desk job, but the scratchiness I feel like I'm just not sensitive to.

I've been able to tell the difference in blacks from vintage to new, but it's never been noticeable enough for me to care THAT much.

I feel like the receptiveness to scratchiness and sound should have a decently long discussion on here at some point, because it could explain why some people notice large differences in smoothness when using vintage blacks, vs new, and some just don't.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 09:31:07 »
I have brand new, and used, black switches from various years since the millenium (thanks to surplus TG3 keyboards), and two boards worth of "vintage" blacks from Unitek K-151Ls. I can't tell a difference in aggregate. From one switch to other, some feel better than others, but I can't say one board feels any better than another overall.

I think telling smoothness is pretty varied from one user to another. I can barely feel the supposed scratchiness to various switches reported as such. I primarily used heavy heavy switches and worked pretty laborious jobs previously, so I almost feel that my sensitivity is lower than a lot of people for this sort of thing because of those 2 factors.

I use much lighter switches now after getting a real desk job, but the scratchiness I feel like I'm just not sensitive to.

I've been able to tell the difference in blacks from vintage to new, but it's never been noticeable enough for me to care THAT much.

I feel like the receptiveness to scratchiness and sound should have a decently long discussion on here at some point, because it could explain why some people notice large differences in smoothness when using vintage blacks, vs new, and some just don't.

I could see that being the case. I have done some laborious things (roofing), but not regularly. I work mostly on computers, mostly laptops even (unfortunately). That's all finger dexterity, not so much gross motor skills.

That was actually part of the intended purpose of my "Vintage" Cherry MX Switches Are A Myth thread, but it was immediately written off as clickbait.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 09:53:46 »
I have brand new, and used, black switches from various years since the millenium (thanks to surplus TG3 keyboards), and two boards worth of "vintage" blacks from Unitek K-151Ls. I can't tell a difference in aggregate. From one switch to other, some feel better than others, but I can't say one board feels any better than another overall.

I think telling smoothness is pretty varied from one user to another. I can barely feel the supposed scratchiness to various switches reported as such. I primarily used heavy heavy switches and worked pretty laborious jobs previously, so I almost feel that my sensitivity is lower than a lot of people for this sort of thing because of those 2 factors.

I use much lighter switches now after getting a real desk job, but the scratchiness I feel like I'm just not sensitive to.

I've been able to tell the difference in blacks from vintage to new, but it's never been noticeable enough for me to care THAT much.

I feel like the receptiveness to scratchiness and sound should have a decently long discussion on here at some point, because it could explain why some people notice large differences in smoothness when using vintage blacks, vs new, and some just don't.

I could see that being the case. I have done some laborious things (roofing), but not regularly. I work mostly on computers, mostly laptops even (unfortunately). That's all finger dexterity, not so much gross motor skills.

That was actually part of the intended purpose of my "Vintage" Cherry MX Switches Are A Myth thread, but it was immediately written off as clickbait.

Another factor could be that I played guitar for years, so my fingertips are rougher than most. Softer than when I was in the scene, but still a bit stiff haha.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 10:10:00 »
Another factor could be that I played guitar for years, so my fingertips are rougher than most. Softer than when I was in the scene, but still a bit stiff haha.

Good points. My fingers are not calloused at all, besides the thumbs ... from analogue sticks. I would love to learn an instrument, especially guitar, but I no longer have the time or energy.

I do find it interesting that you barely notice the scratchiness at all, yet you do perceive a difference between vintage blacks and modern incarnations.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 12:08:10 »
Another factor could be that I played guitar for years, so my fingertips are rougher than most. Softer than when I was in the scene, but still a bit stiff haha.

Good points. My fingers are not calloused at all, besides the thumbs ... from analogue sticks. I would love to learn an instrument, especially guitar, but I no longer have the time or energy.

I do find it interesting that you barely notice the scratchiness at all, yet you do perceive a difference between vintage blacks and modern incarnations.

Well the difference I noticed, while there, really didn't show itself while typing. Only in individual keypresses.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 18 February 2020, 12:36:14 »
Well the difference I noticed, while there, really didn't show itself while typing. Only in individual keypresses.

I never noticed a thing until people mentioned it. Only then did I take the time and effort to slowly press a key and try to gauge the entirety of its travel. I would say that I agree, it isn't something very noticeable while typing (unless it is stock browns). Cherry MX blues also feel terrible while typing normally now, having been spoiled with superior retro switches. Though that's more for its "click" than anything.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 19 February 2020, 07:22:50 »
(unless it is stock browns)

I resent this >:(


Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 19 February 2020, 08:47:22 »
(unless it is stock browns)

I resent this >:(

I'm sorry, lol. I do notice with those. I can't help it. I should pawn the board off on some kid for a year and see if I can try it again. The caps already had shine on them when I got it though.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 19 February 2020, 15:20:26 »
(unless it is stock browns)

I resent this >:(

I'm sorry, lol. I do notice with those. I can't help it. I should pawn the board off on some kid for a year and see if I can try it again. The caps already had shine on them when I got it though.

Browns just aren't scratchy for me.
But to be fair I've only had Filco browns and vintage recently. My first board had 4+ years of wear from me by the time I was actually in the hobby, but they were really smooth browns.

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 19 February 2020, 19:53:16 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

I love bottoming out and not springy

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 10:31:09 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

I love bottoming out and not springy

Yes, I like bottoming out as well. You know you have ended the keypress, and if you have a soft plate material it feels great. Plastic > Metal :)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 12:31:07 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

I love bottoming out and not springy

Yes, I like bottoming out as well. You know you have ended the keypress, and if you have a soft plate material it feels great. Plastic > Metal :)

^ Agreed, except I like metal plates ... because I like things that are solid. I know the plastic ones may sound better. You win some, you lose some. I would rather my boards survive the apocalypse.
« Last Edit: Fri, 21 February 2020, 07:49:53 by Maledicted »

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 17:45:00 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

I love bottoming out and not springy

Yes, I like bottoming out as well. You know you have ended the keypress, and if you have a soft plate material it feels great. Plastic > Metal :)

^ Agreed, except I like metal plates ... because I like things that are solid. I know the plastic ones may sound better. You win some, you lose some. I would rather my boards survive the apocalypse.

Did you mean to write something? You only have an empty message.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 20:49:33 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

I love bottoming out and not springy

Yes, I like bottoming out as well. You know you have ended the keypress, and if you have a soft plate material it feels great. Plastic > Metal :)


^ Agreed, except I like metal plates ... because I like things that are solid. I know the plastic ones may sound better. You win some, you lose some. I would rather my boards survive the apocalypse.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 20:49:44 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

I love bottoming out and not springy

Yes, I like bottoming out as well. You know you have ended the keypress, and if you have a soft plate material it feels great. Plastic > Metal :)


^ Agreed, except I like metal plates ... because I like things that are solid. I know the plastic ones may sound better. You win some, you lose some. I would rather my boards survive the apocalypse.

FTFY

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 21:03:01 »
I really like them because they approach 100G at the end. So you never bottom out. What I hate most is bottoming out. I really do not bottom out on a Topre.  I used to be a big Deck fan until they dried up if you look at my old posts. I thought it was my end game. They used blacks. Yes, TG3.

I love bottoming out and not springy

Yes, I like bottoming out as well. You know you have ended the keypress, and if you have a soft plate material it feels great. Plastic > Metal :)


^ Agreed, except I like metal plates ... because I like things that are solid. I know the plastic ones may sound better. You win some, you lose some. I would rather my boards survive the apocalypse.

Lol, I don't mind aluminum. Any harder than that and my fingers start to feel uncomfortable. Bottoming out hard is supposedly not good for your fingers, either.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 21 February 2020, 07:59:22 »
FTFY

Thank you Dale. That's like the second time I have accidentally done that in the past week.

Lol, I don't mind aluminum. Any harder than that and my fingers start to feel uncomfortable. Bottoming out hard is supposedly not good for your fingers, either.

I have a lot of keyboards with thick steel plates now (lots of vintage boards, and a few TG3s). I don't mind bottoming out on them at all. I think that may have even been one of the things that bothers me about my still-unmodified Unitek K-151L, that I don't bottom out as consistently with the Cherry MX blacks in it. Typing on the same board with box jades is nice.

In what way is it supposed to be bad for your fingers? Ironically, what's actually felt harsh to me is Apple's newer Macbook keyboards. It may as well just be one of those useless laser projection keyboards. To a lesser degree, going from my usual switches to cherry reds also feels a little harsh, to a much lesser degree than Apple's premium ... cardboard keys? Probably the best way to describe them. Thin cardboard ... on a hard desk.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 22 February 2020, 09:17:46 »
FTFY

Thank you Dale. That's like the second time I have accidentally done that in the past week.

Lol, I don't mind aluminum. Any harder than that and my fingers start to feel uncomfortable. Bottoming out hard is supposedly not good for your fingers, either.

I have a lot of keyboards with thick steel plates now (lots of vintage boards, and a few TG3s). I don't mind bottoming out on them at all. I think that may have even been one of the things that bothers me about my still-unmodified Unitek K-151L, that I don't bottom out as consistently with the Cherry MX blacks in it. Typing on the same board with box jades is nice.

In what way is it supposed to be bad for your fingers? Ironically, what's actually felt harsh to me is Apple's newer Macbook keyboards. It may as well just be one of those useless laser projection keyboards. To a lesser degree, going from my usual switches to cherry reds also feels a little harsh, to a much lesser degree than Apple's premium ... cardboard keys? Probably the best way to describe them. Thin cardboard ... on a hard desk.

Your finger is moving at a high velocity and hitting a steel plate. There is no give, so there is no cushioned impact. HARD bottom out. It is a lot of shock, and it is similar to running on a track vs running on concrete. I think Apple Macbook keyboards are HHHHIIIIDEOUS :)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 24 February 2020, 08:26:00 »
FTFY

Thank you Dale. That's like the second time I have accidentally done that in the past week.

Lol, I don't mind aluminum. Any harder than that and my fingers start to feel uncomfortable. Bottoming out hard is supposedly not good for your fingers, either.

I have a lot of keyboards with thick steel plates now (lots of vintage boards, and a few TG3s). I don't mind bottoming out on them at all. I think that may have even been one of the things that bothers me about my still-unmodified Unitek K-151L, that I don't bottom out as consistently with the Cherry MX blacks in it. Typing on the same board with box jades is nice.

In what way is it supposed to be bad for your fingers? Ironically, what's actually felt harsh to me is Apple's newer Macbook keyboards. It may as well just be one of those useless laser projection keyboards. To a lesser degree, going from my usual switches to cherry reds also feels a little harsh, to a much lesser degree than Apple's premium ... cardboard keys? Probably the best way to describe them. Thin cardboard ... on a hard desk.

Your finger is moving at a high velocity and hitting a steel plate. There is no give, so there is no cushioned impact. HARD bottom out. It is a lot of shock, and it is similar to running on a track vs running on concrete. I think Apple Macbook keyboards are HHHHIIIIDEOUS :)

I think I only bottom out hard on Cherry MX reds though, until I get used to them (since I rarely type on them), of the switches that I may use in a given week. Once I use them for 20 minutes or so, that problem goes away.

Offline envyy24

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 24 February 2020, 09:02:24 »
IMO, Mx are not bad like at all :)

They still serve very well as entries to the MM world.

I feel that using mx switches to explain to my friends about mechanical switches are the most coherent way to do it. And later on when you want to explore different switches then mx switches are good points of reference for comparing.

I understand that mx has stalled for years while others progress so well and introduce to us amazing products, but they are by no mean trash.

Offline typo

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 24 February 2020, 09:30:24 »
I am very surprised you all enjoy bottoming out. Yuck! Plus when you get older your fingers might hurt real bad. Bottom out on straight 25g softly okay but no more I say. Hope you all have good insurance. Not being a jerk. Being serious.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 24 February 2020, 09:47:03 »
I am very surprised you all enjoy bottoming out. Yuck! Plus when you get older your fingers might hurt real bad. Bottom out on straight 25g softly okay but no more I say. Hope you all have good insurance. Not being a jerk. Being serious.

Actually, bottoming out on 25g springs would be jarring to me, since I'm used to much heavier springs. I think that's really the point of what I have been saying. Once you get accustomed to a given weight, bottoming out is softened greatly. When I'm bottoming out hard enough for it to be uncomfortable, my typing speed drops like a rock, and errors go up. It all has to do with adjusting to the switch. I'm used to that though, since I may be using Cherry MX blues, Chinese clones of blues, Cherry MX reds, box jades, box navies, Alps blues, capacitive buckling springs, NEC ovals, Fujitsu Peerless, Futabas, or even whatever the garbage abomination modification of the Cherry blue clones are in the Azio Retro Classic, at a given moment, on a whim.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 February 2020, 07:23:59 by Maledicted »

Offline typo

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 24 February 2020, 13:32:44 »
I get it. Probably black is best then after all.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 24 February 2020, 21:41:24 »
I am very surprised you all enjoy bottoming out. Yuck! Plus when you get older your fingers might hurt real bad. Bottom out on straight 25g softly okay but no more I say. Hope you all have good insurance. Not being a jerk. Being serious.

Actually, bottoming out on 25g springs would be jarring to me, since I'm used to much heavier springs. I think that's really the point of what I have been saying. Once you get accustomed to a given weight, bottoming out is softened greatly. When I'm bottoming out hard enough for it to be uncomfortable, my typing speed drops like a rock, and errors go up. It all has to do with adjusting to the switch. I'm used to that though, since I may be using Cherry MX blues, Chinese clones of blues, Cherry MX reds box jades, box navies, Alps blues, capacitive buckling springs, NEC ovals, Fujitsu Peerless, Futabas, or even whatever the garbage abomination modification of the Cherry blue clones are in the Azio Retro Classic, at a given moment, on a whim.

Heavier switches are my go to. I don't hate bottoming out, but I do not like bottoming out harshly. Especially when there are light springs involved.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 25 February 2020, 08:02:41 »
Light springs in cherry silent reds has been very nice on my fingers actually. Soft bottom out and requires little force to actuate. Ironically coming from Topre that has an even softer bottom out, but has such a huge dropoff after the top, that it gave me the same result as a non silent red.

Was tough to get used to, but was helpful to both my speed and hand/wrist pain. If they made browns in a silent version, pretty sure it would be as close to my goldilocks switch as I could get.

I think it has less to do with fingertips and more to do with the vibrations that a harsh bottom out can send through the hand. I only come to this thought because the switch swap helped my wrist pain as well. But I'm far from someone who knows enough about this to give any sort of credence to the claim.

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 25 February 2020, 08:11:07 »
Light springs in cherry silent reds has been very nice on my fingers actually. Soft bottom out and requires little force to actuate. Ironically coming from Topre that has an even softer bottom out, but has such a huge dropoff after the top, that it gave me the same result as a non silent red.

Was tough to get used to, but was helpful to both my speed and hand/wrist pain. If they made browns in a silent version, pretty sure it would be as close to my goldilocks switch as I could get.

I think it has less to do with fingertips and more to do with the vibrations that a harsh bottom out can send through the hand. I only come to this thought because the switch swap helped my wrist pain as well. But I'm far from someone who knows enough about this to give any sort of credence to the claim.

You would think that Cherry would make silent browns, since many people's only use for tactile switches is the lack of an audible click. I imagine you've played around with o-rings and didn't like your findings? I only tried some Rosewill ones, years ago, with my reds. Too mushy for me, but I didn't know there were different kinds available at the time either.

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 25 February 2020, 08:26:13 »
Light springs in cherry silent reds has been very nice on my fingers actually. Soft bottom out and requires little force to actuate. Ironically coming from Topre that has an even softer bottom out, but has such a huge dropoff after the top, that it gave me the same result as a non silent red.

Was tough to get used to, but was helpful to both my speed and hand/wrist pain. If they made browns in a silent version, pretty sure it would be as close to my goldilocks switch as I could get.

I think it has less to do with fingertips and more to do with the vibrations that a harsh bottom out can send through the hand. I only come to this thought because the switch swap helped my wrist pain as well. But I'm far from someone who knows enough about this to give any sort of credence to the claim.

You would think that Cherry would make silent browns, since many people's only use for tactile switches is the lack of an audible click. I imagine you've played around with o-rings and didn't like your findings? I only tried some Rosewill ones, years ago, with my reds. Too mushy for me, but I didn't know there were different kinds available at the time either.

Yeah, not an o-ring fan. Doesn't properly quiet the parts of the switch I most dislike, and reduces travel even more than silents do. Learned the hard way on one of my first boards, when they were in vogue haha.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 25 February 2020, 20:19:50 »
Light springs in cherry silent reds has been very nice on my fingers actually. Soft bottom out and requires little force to actuate. Ironically coming from Topre that has an even softer bottom out, but has such a huge dropoff after the top, that it gave me the same result as a non silent red.

Was tough to get used to, but was helpful to both my speed and hand/wrist pain. If they made browns in a silent version, pretty sure it would be as close to my goldilocks switch as I could get.

I think it has less to do with fingertips and more to do with the vibrations that a harsh bottom out can send through the hand. I only come to this thought because the switch swap helped my wrist pain as well. But I'm far from someone who knows enough about this to give any sort of credence to the claim.

You would think that Cherry would make silent browns, since many people's only use for tactile switches is the lack of an audible click. I imagine you've played around with o-rings and didn't like your findings? I only tried some Rosewill ones, years ago, with my reds. Too mushy for me, but I didn't know there were different kinds available at the time either.

Yeah, not an o-ring fan. Doesn't properly quiet the parts of the switch I most dislike, and reduces travel even more than silents do. Learned the hard way on one of my first boards, when they were in vogue haha.

Mushy, and they don't even make the switches that quieter.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 25 February 2020, 22:16:45 »
Aliaz is basically a silent Brown. Maybe has a little Clear in it. Don't know why Cherry can't do this.

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 26 February 2020, 07:31:48 »
Aliaz is basically a silent Brown. Maybe has a little Clear in it. Don't know why Cherry can't do this.

They can do it. I imagine they just don't care about the enthusiast market. If Corsair, or Razer, or whoever else, throws a bunch of money their way they'll make a change, otherwise I imagine that they're content with their monopoly on POS and industrial keyboards, since the demand is constant. I imagine the money is better too.

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 26 February 2020, 08:34:17 »
FTFY

Thank you Dale. That's like the second time I have accidentally done that in the past week.

Lol, I don't mind aluminum. Any harder than that and my fingers start to feel uncomfortable. Bottoming out hard is supposedly not good for your fingers, either.

I have a lot of keyboards with thick steel plates now (lots of vintage boards, and a few TG3s). I don't mind bottoming out on them at all. I think that may have even been one of the things that bothers me about my still-unmodified Unitek K-151L, that I don't bottom out as consistently with the Cherry MX blacks in it. Typing on the same board with box jades is nice.

In what way is it supposed to be bad for your fingers? Ironically, what's actually felt harsh to me is Apple's newer Macbook keyboards. It may as well just be one of those useless laser projection keyboards. To a lesser degree, going from my usual switches to cherry reds also feels a little harsh, to a much lesser degree than Apple's premium ... cardboard keys? Probably the best way to describe them. Thin cardboard ... on a hard desk.

Your finger is moving at a high velocity and hitting a steel plate. There is no give, so there is no cushioned impact. HARD bottom out. It is a lot of shock, and it is similar to running on a track vs running on concrete. I think Apple Macbook keyboards are HHHHIIIIDEOUS :)

I think I only bottom out hard on Cherry MX reds though, until I get used to them (since I rarely type on them), of the switches that I may use in a given week. Once I use them for 20 minutes or so, that problem goes away.

I bottom out on any switch except clears

Offline typo

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 26 February 2020, 19:09:47 »
Well, you do also have to put forth some effort not to bottom out. Don't slam them :)

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 26 February 2020, 23:13:42 »
I actually like very heavy switches. I would like 160cn if it existed! More than that could cause medical damage probably. Or just build a board with all switches from the spacebar on a black switch board. Those are Gray?

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 27 February 2020, 07:44:03 »
I actually like very heavy switches. I would like 160cn if it existed! More than that could cause medical damage probably. Or just build a board with all switches from the spacebar on a black switch board. Those are Gray?

Yes, gray linears.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 27 February 2020, 10:45:21 »
Well, you do also have to put forth some effort not to bottom out. Don't slam them :)

A little hard when resting your fingers on them actuates them.  :(

Offline OldIsNew

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 19 May 2020, 22:10:53 »
These  are better switches than I care to admit,  and I'm using this board more and more...

Offline Bruek

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 20 May 2020, 19:28:34 »
They really aren't as bad as everybody makes them out to be. I'd much rather type on blacks than any of the more popular cherries (reds, blues, browns).
cronch

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 20 May 2020, 23:11:30 »
Lubed blacks with lighter springs can be great and let's be honest—they just sound great.

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Re: Cherry MX Black aren't THAT Bad
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 03:31:27 »
Lubed blacks with lighter springs can be great and let's be honest—they just sound great.
They do? xD
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