Author Topic: [IC] GMK Red Dragon  (Read 38104 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline kimchijody

  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #100 on: Sat, 23 May 2020, 21:15:40 »
Sooooooo I'm late to the party lol.

Long time lurker but firstly, just wanna say thank you Rensuya for bringing Avatar to the keeb community. It's one of my favorite shows of all time. Love what you did with Mizu and Terra. And I LOVE this set! Zuko is my favorite character in the show and I've been waiting on this set for a long time.

However, I do have a few questions. Mainly, what is your reasoning behind the Chinese sublegends? From what I understand, the Fire Nation is heavily inspired by and draws influence from Japanese culture. The architecture, clothing, politics, even the geography of the country (they live on basically a big volcanic island lol). If anything, I would feel that it would be more fitting to have Japanese sublegends. While Hiragana is more common, Katakana would fit much better as it is more angular and aggressive; similar to the how the fire nation cultural consciousness (and Zuko pre season 3) is filled with energy, power, and often times anger.

Just my two cents. I also don't want to make it seem like I don't like the design because I very much do, especially the dragon kit. I just want to understand your creative decision behind the inclusion of Chinese rather than Japanese subs.

Also, ty for staying even more true to the lore of the show by making sets in the Avatar cycle. You clearly know your stuff!

Offline excusemeprincess

  • Posts: 5
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #101 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 07:57:30 »
Is there any time-frame of this GB? I am building a space65 that would be PERFECT with this set. Also adding I personally love the Chinese sub legends and it's one of the main draws to this set for me. Also love the alternate dark red color, another huge draw to this set for me.

Thank you for all the hard work you put in on all your sets. You have done an amazing job!

Offline lz2019

  • Posts: 51
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #102 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 00:17:34 »
I am sorry if someone already pointed out, but there is clearly a big confusion about Eastern Dragon (=东方龍) vs. Western Dragon (=西方龍),
 
Have to point this out because you wrote the 3 Chinese characters "西方龍" which means Western Dragon, but your dragon image is Eastern style.
Western dragon traditionally have two big wings, like that in the movie “The Hobbit”.
Eastern dragon is traditionally like that in your image (Enter key and desk mat), no big wing, long body with four claws.

And, the English title is "Red Dragon" which means "红龍" in Chinese. Now it turns to talk about the color rather than Eastern or Western style, why?
Why print "西方龍" there at all? There are a lot of Asia elements in this set, it looks very eastern style if that's truly the intention.
Why not just write "红龍" if you really want to emphasize the color?

Anyway the kit looks really contradictory, I am sorry to say that.
If you simply print "红龍" there, then there will be no confusion because eastern style dragon can be in red color. Then all the images and Asian characters
won't cause conflict any more. My 2 cents.


 
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 June 2020, 13:44:15 by lz2019 »

Offline bakuretsu

  • Posts: 76
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #103 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 00:39:21 »
I am sorry if someone already pointed out, but there is clearly some confusion about Eastern Dragon (=东方龍) vs. Western Dragon (=西方龍),
 
Have to point this out because you wrote the 3 Chinese characters "西方龍" which means Western Dragon, but your dragon image is Eastern style.
Western dragon traditionally have two big wings, like that in the movie “The Hobbit”.
Eastern dragon is traditionally like that in your image (Enter key and desk mat), no big wing, long body with fours claws.

And, the English title is "Red Dragon" which means "红龍" in Chinese. Now it turns to talk about the color rather than Eastern or Western style, why?
Why write "西方龍" there at all? there are a lot of Chinese characters in this set, it looks to me very Eastern style.
Why not just write "红龍" if you really want to emphasize the color?

Anyway the current shape looks contradictory. But if you simply print "红龍" there, then there will be no confusion because Eastern style dragon can
be in red color, and all the images and Chinese characters won't cause conflict any more. My 2 cents.

This set is inspired by the fire nation from Avatar. The title of Iroh (an important fire nation character) is "The Dragon of the West." West in a fictional world with different continents is not going to be the same as West in real life.

Offline lz2019

  • Posts: 51
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 00:56:10 »
This set is inspired by the fire nation from Avatar. The title of Iroh (an important fire nation character) is "The Dragon of the West." West in a fictional world with different continents is not going to be the same as West in real life.

I see, so it is really tied to fire nation character Iroh's title. The cartoon is no doubt contradictory on Eastern and Western dragons, well it must have its own reason to be created in such way.
But eventually the idea is to attract more interests right? attract more people than those already know Iroh's title. The fact is people who are not familiar with the cartoon cannot get the spirit,
there is definitely mismatch of information.

It's like a notice board outside a restaurant saying we serve dinner with traditional dinnerware knife/fork/spoon, when I go inside I only see very nice chopsticks made of bamboo on the table.
Real life contrast is signalling here, I am pretty out, can't handle the stretch.

Sorry for interrupting, I should stop. This is nice design overall and the color way is amazing! Good luck.



« Last Edit: Tue, 09 June 2020, 14:34:42 by lz2019 »

Offline Ellen_Degenocide

  • Posts: 7
  • Location: Per, Aus
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 06:59:42 »
As someone completely ignorant to the nuances of the language used vs. the designers intention - I really like the colours and theme. Hopefully those amazing renders can be reproduced on actual keys.


Offline Bonsa

  • Posts: 36
  • Location: Belgium
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 08:29:13 »
This set feels a little bit lost. Don't get me wrong, I have had a huge passion for dragons and their mythology for my entire life.
I also grew up with Avatar on Nickelodeon, together with the other kids from my neighborhood we would gather around every time they did an Avatar marathon and watch the entire show in 3 days.
I now look at this set and I'm definitely feeling a dragon vibe, but definitely not an Avatar dragon vibe.
Why not work with the design of Roku's dragon? Or Sozins' dragon?
When Aang and Zuko learn their firebending from the Sun Warriors, they meet the last 2 dragons: a blue one and a red one, so why did you pick a golden one in one of the deskmats? It doesn't really fit the Avatar theme.
About the novelties:
I understand you picked Zuko for novelties, but wouldn't Avatar Roku or Firelord Sozin be better suited? I mean, they rode  dragons... I was thinking about their special hair pieces they wore. The head of Roku's dragon could work as a novelty too (see picture).
Maybe a general Iroh novelty would fit better than the spirit mask from Zuko? Iroh is known as 'the Dragon of the West' after all.

The deskmats are what make me feel so confused. Is this supposed to represent dragons or Avatar? I don't think it represents the dragons in Avatar, and it definitely has too many ties to Avatar to be about random dragons alone...

Maybe leave the firenation/ Avatar part for now and make a dedicated Firenation set in the future?
I love the colors, but I'm not on board with the theme, sadly.

EDIT: I see I am a little late to the party, so maybe consider this as inspiration for a future set called GMK Firebender or something?
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 June 2020, 08:57:12 by Bonsa »

Offline lakeboredom

  • Posts: 251
  • Location: NorCal
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #107 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 21:44:03 »
I agree. But the nerd is screaming in me, Zuko does ride a dragon.

Offline Key_Capt

  • Posts: 10
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 23:56:35 »
Looks awesome, all your Element sets look really nice.

Offline Bonsa

  • Posts: 36
  • Location: Belgium
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #109 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 05:27:03 »
I agree. But the nerd is screaming in me, Zuko does ride a dragon.
Please don't start about the legend of Korra.


Offline bakuretsu

  • Posts: 76
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #110 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 06:25:37 »
I agree. But the nerd is screaming in me, Zuko does ride a dragon.
Please don't start about the legend of Korra.

What? Why? It's canon.

Besides, whether he specifically rides a dragon or not, dragons are the first firebenders. This is a fire nation-themed set. And I don't remember anyone complaining about the inclusion of Tui and La in GMK Mizu or the badger moles in GMK Terra.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 June 2020, 06:31:31 by bakuretsu »

Offline Solotov

  • Posts: 337
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #111 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 07:35:31 »
Zhuyin in the base kit!  :-*
Flex is love, flex is life.

Offline Bonsa

  • Posts: 36
  • Location: Belgium
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #112 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 08:22:45 »
What? Why? It's canon.

Besides, whether he specifically rides a dragon or not, dragons are the first firebenders. This is a fire nation-themed set. And I don't remember anyone complaining about the inclusion of Tui and La in GMK Mizu or the badger moles in GMK Terra.

You are right, I didn't like the legend of Korra, but it is indeed part of the canon. I was commenting too much as a fanboy of the (original) series and not enough as a person interested in a dragon themed set. After all, for the average person who didn't watch the series, the wink to the series can be left out.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 June 2020, 08:29:01 by Bonsa »

Offline klexoslethal

  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #113 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 14:28:25 »
As an avid lover of the ATLA series, I'm 100% ready to get this, but I feel like it should include the symbol for the Fire Nation like Mizu and Terra have for the respective elements

Offline lenznel

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #114 on: Sat, 13 June 2020, 09:47:40 »
Hi,
I've noticed there are some weird grammar and word choices on the deskmat. As a native speaker and a Zhuyin typer myself, I can sort of tell what the original meaning might be but kind of doesn't translate well...  It kind of feels like reading this in English: "Fire is power elemet. Fire Nation People have wish and will, have energy and motivation to accomplish what they want..." I do really like the set! It would be even better if the kit could be more "meaningful". I would love to help if you need it. Cheers!

Offline excusemeprincess

  • Posts: 5
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #115 on: Sat, 20 June 2020, 07:10:17 »
I just want to show my support for this set, I really hope this gets to the GB stage. I actually have a board I'm building that would be perfect for this set!

Offline Kinesiologist

  • Posts: 71
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #116 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 19:47:46 »
Interested in the project but please consider some suggestions:

- name change to "GMK Inferno"
- the font used on the text of the deskmat is nice, but please change the text to English, perhaps quoting Iroh's famous lines be it inspirational or comedic
- 西方龍 can be changed to "Dragon of the West" in English to put stronger emphasis on Iroh (if it doesn't introduce legal issues regarding copyrights)

thank you.
KBD8X MKII | UTD 360c

Space65 R2 | Hello M0110 | KKKK 660 | Primus

Offline deepmail

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon
« Reply #117 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 20:07:09 »
Why does it say "western dragon" in Chinese? It does not make sense in so many different ways..

Likely a reference to the Dragon of the West or Uncle Iro

Edit: lol I see this was answered already, I also interpreted it incorrectly. There are 2 words for dragon one referring to the western-styled dragon, not what I thought. My bad
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 June 2020, 20:09:09 by deepmail »

Offline CoolMike

  • Posts: 50
  • Location: Middletown, NY
  • Mechs & Co.
    • Mechs & Co.
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #118 on: Thu, 25 June 2020, 11:51:26 »
This kit is beautiful,

Zhuyin should be the base set though.. as others have commented.



Offline musicgecko

  • Posts: 29
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #119 on: Fri, 26 June 2020, 18:16:46 »
love it, but please dont do zhuyin as base.

Offline HypeSloth

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #120 on: Fri, 26 June 2020, 18:32:41 »
+1, just finishing up my first watch through of ATLA and would grab this set in a heartbeat!

Offline musicgecko

  • Posts: 29
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #121 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 23:19:05 »
digging this so much, please happen!

Offline solomonshv

  • Posts: 58
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #122 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 19:54:04 »
hello ren. i don't watch anime and know diddly squat about avatar, BUT, i'm a big fan of your work. i own mizu and waiting on terra. i think what made those sets unique and attractive even to people who don't care about anime is the basic formula that the sets followed, which was light color alphas with dark legends and dark mods with light color legends. the colors you used weren't too bright and very pleasing to look at.

you obviously don't have to agree with me, but i think that the fire nation set could look *approximately* like this:


i haven't played around with colors, so this is just to give you an idea of what i'm thinking about. is that something that makes sense to you? possibly have alternate alphas?

thanks.
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 July 2020, 01:24:07 by solomonshv »
Keebs owned/bought::: Satisfaction 75 standard - cloud white | Diamond 60% Grey | Gok 7V - blue | Clarabelle - black cow | Think6.5V2 LE | iON Zenith - Moss

Caps owned/bought::: GMK WoB, GMK Mizu, GMK Nautilus R2, GMK taro R2, GMK MoDo R2, ePBT Classic Cyrillic, GMK Bread, GMK Sumi, GMK Pono, Cherry G81-3000 SAV

Wish list/Will buy::: Keycult No.2/65, Trifecta by 2Moons, J-01 Rev1, GMK Sloth, GMK Terra,

Offline bakuretsu

  • Posts: 76
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #123 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 20:42:51 »

There are already alternate alphas. The base kit alphas are black, while the alternate alphas are the same deep, dark red as the modifiers.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 July 2020, 20:49:48 by bakuretsu »

Offline solomonshv

  • Posts: 58
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #124 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 20:49:48 »
Also, there are already alternate alphas. The base kit alphas are black, while the alternate alphas are the same deep, dark red as the modifiers.

by alt alphas, i meant red with dark legends. i'm not asking to change everything about the set, colors on mods and alphas can stay as they as, but would just like the legend color to be used in an alt alpha background.
Keebs owned/bought::: Satisfaction 75 standard - cloud white | Diamond 60% Grey | Gok 7V - blue | Clarabelle - black cow | Think6.5V2 LE | iON Zenith - Moss

Caps owned/bought::: GMK WoB, GMK Mizu, GMK Nautilus R2, GMK taro R2, GMK MoDo R2, ePBT Classic Cyrillic, GMK Bread, GMK Sumi, GMK Pono, Cherry G81-3000 SAV

Wish list/Will buy::: Keycult No.2/65, Trifecta by 2Moons, J-01 Rev1, GMK Sloth, GMK Terra,

Offline OakCcTrk

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #125 on: Thu, 23 July 2020, 12:23:29 »
Yes i like the bright red alpha's idea better and i know i'm also extremely late to the party lol but when i think of the fire nation it's bright red and gold this just feels muted and off the mark. i agree with modeling off of the dragons from the show these just seem too different IMO. would love to see fire nation symbol as a novelty as well as maybe the Fire lord or Roku's hair pieces. These are just my thoughts and clearly i am no designer. I am very late to the keeb hobby so i am despartely looking for full mizu set and terra extras when they come i am SOOO happy you brought ATLA to caps!!

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 595
  • Location: Northern Ireland
  • I'd Hit Dat Key
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #126 on: Thu, 23 July 2020, 12:33:53 »
Love the contrast between alphas and the mods.  It looks superb on the Adele.
I started typing on a Sinclair Spectrum 'human flesh' keyboard in 1980 and I never stopped.

More
Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
Rig3 |i5-7500|16GB(2400)|H110 Pro BTC+|8x1080Ti|2x1650Watt PSU
Systems
More
IBM 3101, IBM 3276, IBM 5150, IBM ModelM, Dictaphone Dual Display, Cherry (all of them), Nixdorf, Siemens, Filco Majistouch, Rama M6-B, CA66, ClueBoard, VA69M, Rama U-80, VN66, BOCC, Rama M10-C, Rama M60-A LYN, CyberVoyager, Clarabelle, Elongate Mini 1800, Petrichor 1800, Maja, Think6.5v2, Bear, Cherry CB87
Keyboards

Offline Hyphen

  • Posts: 25
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #127 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 02:00:32 »
I do concur with a lot of the others where I wish the Zhuyin alphas would be the default, but I know you've already adressed it and understand where you're coming from. So I guess I'll just have to suck it up and buy the alt alphas as well. It's a beautiful set! I'm definitely in.  :thumb:

Offline lush_bunny

  • Posts: 319
  • Location: Philippines
  • CLACK CLACK M**********R
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #128 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 09:44:15 »
I do concur with a lot of the others where I wish the Zhuyin alphas would be the default, but I know you've already adressed it and understand where you're coming from. So I guess I'll just have to suck it up and buy the alt alphas as well. It's a beautiful set! I'm definitely in.  :thumb:

Wait where did he address it?

Offline Hyphen

  • Posts: 25
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #129 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 13:45:53 »
I do concur with a lot of the others where I wish the Zhuyin alphas would be the default, but I know you've already adressed it and understand where you're coming from. So I guess I'll just have to suck it up and buy the alt alphas as well. It's a beautiful set! I'm definitely in.  :thumb:

Wait where did he address it?

Will you consider adding modifiers kit that provide same background colors as the alphas?
Are you meaning dark grey modifiers to match the alphas?

I think that's what they meant. Like an all-black base with red legends. Also, shameless plug:

Hey Ren. This is a long shot but here goes. Would you consider using the Zhuyin/ Alt Alphas in the main kit if the demand was there? I have been growing fond of one base color for mods and alphas. The aesthetic is just 👌.
If enough people vote for dark grey mods kit then it would be possible. If enough express interest here then I will make a poll for them and if that gets enough votes then it could happen.


Hey Ren. This is a long shot but here goes. Would you consider using the Zhuyin/ Alt Alphas in the main kit if the demand was there? I have been growing fond of one base color for mods and alphas. The aesthetic is just 👌.

Unlikely, but +1
Unlikely yes, but not impossible. I love the Zhuyin but don't want to force it on the masses.

It seemed to me that that was a no.

Offline Skok

  • Posts: 49
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #130 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 16:17:44 »
Those desk mats are absolutely beautiful. Will definitely be picking one up when the time comes.

Offline lush_bunny

  • Posts: 319
  • Location: Philippines
  • CLACK CLACK M**********R
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #131 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 21:08:05 »
It seemed to me that that was a no.

Yes, but after than he ran the color poll.

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 1113
  • Location: Germany
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #132 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 08:26:01 »
Wishlist: 1) hotswap gasket mount; 2) nice Alps blank caps; 3) Hipro Iris with adjustable tenting; 4) CNC POM case
More
Wishful-list: 1) All POM; 2) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 3) Usable Trackpoint MK
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[It's not I don't like ISO, but I need the HHKB backspace... only ~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline RexKorp

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Sweden
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #133 on: Fri, 31 July 2020, 20:53:17 »
Did you consider/play around with a modifier set using the same colors as the alphas? (Maybe there are renders? :D)
Obviously not in the base set but if it was an option, it would basically be a way to get the GMK version of Bred PBT.

Offline toxicity

  • Posts: 18
  • Kyle M
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #134 on: Sun, 02 August 2020, 04:39:56 »
Any updates on the set?
Hi my name is Ky. Collection: E-White After

Offline beresford

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon
« Reply #135 on: Sun, 02 August 2020, 08:25:37 »
That's a lot of simultaneous ICs and GBs to manage. I'd be a bit concerned as to how one can manage this kind of pipeline.

1. [GB] GMK Peaches and Cream
2. [GB] GMK Terra
3. [GB] KAT Atlantis
4. [IC] KAT Goddess
5. [IC] KAT Explosion
6. [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R?
7. [IC] GMK Red Dragon

I understand having a lot of ideas and wanting them to be successfully produced as per the designer's preferences, but I am worried this is spreading way too thinly.

More importantly, it is a bit alarming to me that this may be an attempt to "claim" the spot to an idea (by having an IC thread in existence), or worse yet, in the queue of sets to be produced.

But with things being so busy for one person, I can't imagine these would all proceed well with no hiccups.

Just a few questions on this comment here - in what way does your comment above contribute to this IC? Has there been any issue with other sets he is running? If there hasn't been any, then I would say your comment is equivalent of saying "sorry Lightening you stream way too much and way too long, although I have not watched anything on your channel yet, but I just can't imagine someone streams too much would be fun to watch." 

Pretty sad to see someone as influential as you being a bit unnecessarily toxic.

Offline gasp

  • Formerly 'boop' (NTBCW Booper)
  • Posts: 39
  • Location: US
    • none
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon
« Reply #136 on: Sun, 02 August 2020, 11:55:38 »
That's a lot of simultaneous ICs and GBs to manage. I'd be a bit concerned as to how one can manage this kind of pipeline.

1. [GB] GMK Peaches and Cream
2. [GB] GMK Terra
3. [GB] KAT Atlantis
4. [IC] KAT Goddess
5. [IC] KAT Explosion
6. [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R?
7. [IC] GMK Red Dragon

I understand having a lot of ideas and wanting them to be successfully produced as per the designer's preferences, but I am worried this is spreading way too thinly.

More importantly, it is a bit alarming to me that this may be an attempt to "claim" the spot to an idea (by having an IC thread in existence), or worse yet, in the queue of sets to be produced.

But with things being so busy for one person, I can't imagine these would all proceed well with no hiccups.

Just a few questions on this comment here - in what way does your comment above contribute to this IC? Has there been any issue with other sets he is running? If there hasn't been any, then I would say your comment is equivalent of saying "sorry Lightening you stream way too much and way too long, although I have not watched anything on your channel yet, but I just can't imagine someone streams too much would be fun to watch." 

Pretty sad to see someone as influential as you being a bit unnecessarily toxic.

Bringing up valid concerns about someone’s ability to manage multiple key sets by someone who also has experience running key sets, when the runner has demonstrated on the only two sets that have shipped that they struggle with color matching is far from being toxic. Why necro an old comment to make such an ignorant and poor argument. Mizu came out slightly over saturated vs renders. Peaches and cream came out enormously over saturated from renders. It’s a valid concern, and was phrased extremely diplomatically. If anyone was toxic, it was you.

Offline Xerpocalypse

  • Posts: 132
  • (◡ ‿ ◡ )
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #137 on: Sun, 02 August 2020, 12:50:34 »
hello ren. i don't watch anime and know diddly squat about avatar, BUT, i'm a big fan of your work. i own mizu and waiting on terra. i think what made those sets unique and attractive even to people who don't care about anime is the basic formula that the sets followed, which was light color alphas with dark legends and dark mods with light color legends. the colors you used weren't too bright and very pleasing to look at.

you obviously don't have to agree with me, but i think that the fire nation set could look *approximately* like this:
Show Image


i haven't played around with colors, so this is just to give you an idea of what i'm thinking about. is that something that makes sense to you? possibly have alternate alphas?

thanks.

Ren's had some health issues recently which involved a trip to the ER and is currently recovering. Asking him to redesign the set because it doesn't fit your personal vision for what he designed it after is rediculous.

Let the man follow his own design philosophy. Jeez.




Offline beresford

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon
« Reply #138 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 06:30:27 »
That's a lot of simultaneous ICs and GBs to manage. I'd be a bit concerned as to how one can manage this kind of pipeline.

1. [GB] GMK Peaches and Cream
2. [GB] GMK Terra
3. [GB] KAT Atlantis
4. [IC] KAT Goddess
5. [IC] KAT Explosion
6. [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R?
7. [IC] GMK Red Dragon

I understand having a lot of ideas and wanting them to be successfully produced as per the designer's preferences, but I am worried this is spreading way too thinly.

More importantly, it is a bit alarming to me that this may be an attempt to "claim" the spot to an idea (by having an IC thread in existence), or worse yet, in the queue of sets to be produced.

But with things being so busy for one person, I can't imagine these would all proceed well with no hiccups.

Just a few questions on this comment here - in what way does your comment above contribute to this IC? Has there been any issue with other sets he is running? If there hasn't been any, then I would say your comment is equivalent of saying "sorry Lightening you stream way too much and way too long, although I have not watched anything on your channel yet, but I just can't imagine someone streams too much would be fun to watch." 

Pretty sad to see someone as influential as you being a bit unnecessarily toxic.

Bringing up valid concerns about someone’s ability to manage multiple key sets by someone who also has experience running key sets, when the runner has demonstrated on the only two sets that have shipped that they struggle with color matching is far from being toxic. Why necro an old comment to make such an ignorant and poor argument. Mizu came out slightly over saturated vs renders. Peaches and cream came out enormously over saturated from renders. It’s a valid concern, and was phrased extremely diplomatically. If anyone was toxic, it was you.

Let's see what LighteningXI said in his comment:
1. There are multiple sets are being run by this runner;
2. The runner isn't serious about this set but rather he created this IC to "claim" this idea;
3. This set will not go well because of the workload.

My issue with his comment are:
1. Except for the point 1 above, the rest are all 100% based on his own speculations with zero reason or supporting evidence provided. For example, what has happened in the past that caused his concern about this runner's ability of running this IC? And if there has been issues in the past, why did they have to be related to workload? If you want to make accusations like this, I suggest you lay down your reasoning upfront. These can all be valuable information for the community members who are interested in this set.
2. The accusation of the runner created this IC simply wanted to "claim" his idea is the reason why I think his comment was toxic. It can be seen that there has been decent amount of effort went into the design of this set. I don't think it is fair to the runner that simply because he/she has a few sets on the go, so that anything comes later has to be rushed / with lower quality. There is simply no causal link between how many sets one is running and the quality of them. They are correlated, but there is no causal link unless proven if you know what I mean.
3. Unless there has been issues in the past specifically caused by the runner's inability to manage high workload, you can't just discredit others work by say "sorry you have too much on (based on MY standards) that you cannot succeed". That is just ridiculous. Just because LighteningXI cannot manage that many doesn't mean others can't. Also, people who run only 1 set at a time may also have 5 other jobs outside this hobby. Have you thought about that?

Regarding your comment:
1. Colour matching issues - like I said, LighteningXI did not mention any issues at all and went directly into making speculations / accusations. Also, why does the issue have to be due to workload? 8008 has crazy colour matching issue as well, was it because that runner had too many on the go as well?
2. "Necro and old comment" - his comment was just right below the original post. Everyone sees it and to me it was unfair to the runner so I wanted some clarifications. Is that really unacceptable? I can reply to any comment here, isn't that the whole purpose of this platform?
3. His comment was "diplomatic" - lmao if you call these accusations diplomatic then let's all spam it to all IC threads because who can prove themselves that they didn't create this IC trying to "claim" an idea anyway.
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 August 2020, 06:36:51 by beresford »

Offline w0t

  • Posts: 5
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #139 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 10:32:26 »
Just wanted to drop my opinion but not intending to be toxic, hoping this will have a constructive impact. Looking at Ren's past ATLA sets, they've been very loyal and consistent with the original inspiration but the current set I feels strays further and breaks the pattern. A lot of these ideas have been echoed earlier in this thread but I hope there is another representative fire element design that resonates with ATLA fans more.

Title: Mizu and Terra literally means their respective elements, Huo (romanized chinese translation of fire) or Hi (rom japanese) would've been good alternatives, also there are many blue dragons in ATLA so name is questionable
Colour profile: The Mizu and Terra colour profiles were stunning imo, you could spot what they represent a mile away even if no one told you explicitly what the inspiration was and the colours blend together so well. Black however is not the dominant colour when you think of fire bending/nation/Zuko (yes they have black armor, but it's not the representative colour and you wouldn't think fire nation when you see it) and the absence of orange (Zuko and other firebender's flames) and blue (Azula's flames, the blue dragons and lightning, don't forget Zuko worked his butt off to redirect that stuff) makes me sad. Zuko also didn't wear black when he joined the team which is when he became an iconic character. Off topic; why is GMK red dragon so similar to solar red lol (not pointing any fingers, I'm legit suprised by the similarities)
Deskmat: Doesn't look like the dragons from ATLA (diff design and winged as people mentioned above) and the theme of firebending is so much more than dragons, would've been cool to see Ran and Shaw coiled together tho
Novelties: Same issue with the colour profiles, Zuko's called the blue spirit for a reason, dragon design doesn't resemble ATLA and Zuko's scar is fairly off. Missed opportunity, fire nation soldier helmet, would've looked sick!
Zhuyin kit (for those suggesting it as base): ok as a side kit but putting it in the base kit is culturally inappropriate imo. The identity of chinese characters in the west hasn't been reclaimed yet unlike japanese characters which have a strong identity thanks to anime and other cultural exports. Chinese characters are these days associated with token tattoos on people who don't understand what it means (cultural appropriation...). Combine this with the fire nation being based on Japan (the sun warriors and WWII reference, earth kingdom is China) and the chinese restaurant vibes (due to the title, colour scheme and dragon design), you get red flags culturally. Chinese culture has had a notoriously bad depiction designed by white people in western media with the lotus flower, dragon ladies and cheap chinese restaurants (there exists amazing chinese restaurants/cuisines but there's this idea that chinese food can't be expensive?!) which is frustrating since chinese people can't represent their culture in the way that they want. Anyways forcing people to buy zhuyin characters in the base kit is iffy since it'll be treating chinese characters (while ignoring it's cultural meaning) as token decorations in a set where it doesn't connect with the original inspiration. Might be more acceptable in the future, but chinese culture hasn't had significant representation by their own people in the west yet.

I don't say this as a personal attack, nor am I trying to sling mud on this set and hope my comments can be digested constructively. I'm also a massive fan of ATLA and want it represented properly so fingers crossed there's a future set that does it justice because I see so much potential behind the idea of firebending and the amazing colour profiles that could match the theme. It's this excitement that makes me bother typing this! Yip yip~

Offline Hugs94

  • Posts: 25
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #140 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 10:45:22 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for negative or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 August 2020, 22:21:06 by Hugs94 »

Offline Xerpocalypse

  • Posts: 132
  • (◡ ‿ ◡ )
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon
« Reply #141 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 13:01:55 »
That's a lot of simultaneous ICs and GBs to manage. I'd be a bit concerned as to how one can manage this kind of pipeline.

1. [GB] GMK Peaches and Cream
2. [GB] GMK Terra
3. [GB] KAT Atlantis
4. [IC] KAT Goddess
5. [IC] KAT Explosion
6. [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R?
7. [IC] GMK Red Dragon

I understand having a lot of ideas and wanting them to be successfully produced as per the designer's preferences, but I am worried this is spreading way too thinly.

More importantly, it is a bit alarming to me that this may be an attempt to "claim" the spot to an idea (by having an IC thread in existence), or worse yet, in the queue of sets to be produced.

But with things being so busy for one person, I can't imagine these would all proceed well with no hiccups.

Just a few questions on this comment here - in what way does your comment above contribute to this IC? Has there been any issue with other sets he is running? If there hasn't been any, then I would say your comment is equivalent of saying "sorry Lightening you stream way too much and way too long, although I have not watched anything on your channel yet, but I just can't imagine someone streams too much would be fun to watch." 

Pretty sad to see someone as influential as you being a bit unnecessarily toxic.

Bringing up valid concerns about someone’s ability to manage multiple key sets by someone who also has experience running key sets, when the runner has demonstrated on the only two sets that have shipped that they struggle with color matching is far from being toxic. Why necro an old comment to make such an ignorant and poor argument. Mizu came out slightly over saturated vs renders. Peaches and cream came out enormously over saturated from renders. It’s a valid concern, and was phrased extremely diplomatically. If anyone was toxic, it was you.

Let's see what LighteningXI said in his comment:
1. There are multiple sets are being run by this runner;
2. The runner isn't serious about this set but rather he created this IC to "claim" this idea;
3. This set will not go well because of the workload.

My issue with his comment are:
1. Except for the point 1 above, the rest are all 100% based on his own speculations with zero reason or supporting evidence provided. For example, what has happened in the past that caused his concern about this runner's ability of running this IC? And if there has been issues in the past, why did they have to be related to workload? If you want to make accusations like this, I suggest you lay down your reasoning upfront. These can all be valuable information for the community members who are interested in this set.
2. The accusation of the runner created this IC simply wanted to "claim" his idea is the reason why I think his comment was toxic. It can be seen that there has been decent amount of effort went into the design of this set. I don't think it is fair to the runner that simply because he/she has a few sets on the go, so that anything comes later has to be rushed / with lower quality. There is simply no causal link between how many sets one is running and the quality of them. They are correlated, but there is no causal link unless proven if you know what I mean.
3. Unless there has been issues in the past specifically caused by the runner's inability to manage high workload, you can't just discredit others work by say "sorry you have too much on (based on MY standards) that you cannot succeed". That is just ridiculous. Just because LighteningXI cannot manage that many doesn't mean others can't. Also, people who run only 1 set at a time may also have 5 other jobs outside this hobby. Have you thought about that?

Regarding your comment:
1. Colour matching issues - like I said, LighteningXI did not mention any issues at all and went directly into making speculations / accusations. Also, why does the issue have to be due to workload? 8008 has crazy colour matching issue as well, was it because that runner had too many on the go as well?
2. "Necro and old comment" - his comment was just right below the original post. Everyone sees it and to me it was unfair to the runner so I wanted some clarifications. Is that really unacceptable? I can reply to any comment here, isn't that the whole purpose of this platform?
3. His comment was "diplomatic" - lmao if you call these accusations diplomatic then let's all spam it to all IC threads because who can prove themselves that they didn't create this IC trying to "claim" an idea anyway.

You probably lack the context that I'm about to give you, but here it is:

In a creator community as small as this one (and I'm referring to set designers with successful groupbuys of any size) it's very unusual to work on many multiple keyset projects at once. You might see people successfully design 1-2 sets and run one at a time in a given year. Ren hasn't followed this trend and has designed a number of keysets in a relatively short timeframe.

Color matching is stressful. There are things you can do during the process to make it less stressful, but there's always that feeling in the back of your mind that it won't be "close enough" to what the renders showed.

Lightning's concerns are valid ones, and he presented them without resorting to ad hominem attacks. Replying to them months after the the thread began and misconstruing them as "toxic" only serves to derail the thread.

Offline w0t

  • Posts: 5
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #142 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 22:52:57 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for positive or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
Won't reply after this but wanted to address your comments.
1. My previous message was entirely my opinion, feel free to disagree
2. I don't feel that strongly about the Zhuyin kit as base, I'm just saying it makes me uncomfortable as someone who knows the ATLA lore and the current situation of chinese culture but not gonna force my opinion down people's throat. Yes my wording could have been better but at least try to understand where I'm coming from if you're gonna have a go at me and ultimately we all want this set to be as good as possible
3. My opinion of chinese culture in the west is political and off topic so I understand why you're annoyed. But it's also an unpopular opinion guaranteed to generate more hate than understanding since, let's face it, nobody gives a **** about chinese culture. So my intentions wasn't to "woke post", but to inform people so that they consider this perspective when they make a decision since they're borrowing ideas from that culture, they can decide to ignore it if they want. My opinion is I'm still uncomfortable with forcing zhuyin in the base for a set originally inspired by japanese culture
4. I'm a supporter of freedom of expression and testing out new designs, which is why I'm interested in how the red on red for these keys will turn out. I also know it is entirely up to the designers to explore their ideas and our role as consumers and lurkers is to support their decision if we like it
5. However, I'm more passionate about ATLA than keycaps so your post has me pissed @Hugs94
6. ATLA travels across a world so of course they're gonna draw influence from multiple sources, but the fire nation is Japan and this kit is based on the fire nation. People have said this before in this thread, and the biggest giveaway is the sun warriors, Japan (日本) literally have the sun character in its name and its national flag is a sun! The earth kingdom is China, just look at their outfits and Long Feng with his shaved head. It's more broadly acceptable to mix these cultures in the west since they're both asian (so not as triggering as chinese character tattoos), but ye... You can make your own opinion
7. I reasoned why the design made me uncomfortable while giving the full context of why it made me feel this way in my previous post. The main problem I have with the current set up is consistency, feels like some of the novelties and original inspiration is separate to the rest of the design. Zuko and the fire nation are based on Japan, the blue spirit mask (which is in the novelties) is based on a traditional Japanese mask! Meanwhile the dragon, red and gold colours, and Zhuyin kit is very chinese. The merging of these 2 concepts, as well as including this set in the ATLA representative element series is what triggers me
8. Hugs94, you use the authority of "someone who works on social issues" but you don't read the context I wrote in my previous post even tho it explains why it can be interpreted as inappropriate. Where is the proper break down of my ideas and the additional insights from someone in your field instead of the dismissive attitude. Also as someone who relates to others on a regular basis, why the antagonising attitude instead of understanding the perspective of other people and why passionate ATLA fans feel the same way as myself, I'm not the first person to make these comments and I doubt I'll be the last. (Sorry I don't mean to attack you personally, but covid has made me sensitive towards info from authority...)

Ren, this isn't an attack on you or your work and I'm still interested in how this set turns out. Mizu and Terra are absolutely amazing imo and raised a high bar, which is why I'm sad about red dragon since the consistency of the underlying idea isn't quite there. I'm nitpicking at details, but it's accurate details that make nerds like myself appreciative of the efforts put in. Hope your sets go well.

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 11555
  • Location: RSTLN E
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #143 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 23:01:01 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for positive or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
Won't reply after this but wanted to address your comments.
1. My previous message was entirely my opinion, feel free to disagree
2. I don't feel that strongly about the Zhuyin kit as base, I'm just saying it makes me uncomfortable as someone who knows the ATLA lore and the current situation of chinese culture but not gonna force my opinion down people's throat. Yes my wording could have been better but at least try to understand where I'm coming from if you're gonna have a go at me and ultimately we all want this set to be as good as possible
3. My opinion of chinese culture in the west is political and off topic so I understand why you're annoyed. But it's also an unpopular opinion guaranteed to generate more hate than understanding since, let's face it, nobody gives a **** about chinese culture. So my intentions wasn't to "woke post", but to inform people so that they consider this perspective when they make a decision since they're borrowing ideas from that culture, they can decide to ignore it if they want. My opinion is I'm still uncomfortable with forcing zhuyin in the base for a set originally inspired by japanese culture
4. I'm a supporter of freedom of expression and testing out new designs, which is why I'm interested in how the red on red for these keys will turn out. I also know it is entirely up to the designers to explore their ideas and our role as consumers and lurkers is to support their decision if we like it
5. However, I'm more passionate about ATLA than keycaps so your post has me pissed @Hugs94
6. ATLA travels across a world so of course they're gonna draw influence from multiple sources, but the fire nation is Japan and this kit is based on the fire nation. People have said this before in this thread, and the biggest giveaway is the sun warriors, Japan (日本) literally have the sun character in its name and its national flag is a sun! The earth kingdom is China, just look at their outfits and Long Feng with his shaved head. It's more broadly acceptable to mix these cultures in the west since they're both asian (so not as triggering as chinese character tattoos), but ye... You can make your own opinion
7. I reasoned why the design made me uncomfortable while giving the full context of why it made me feel this way in my previous post. The main problem I have with the current set up is consistency, feels like some of the novelties and original inspiration is separate to the rest of the design. Zuko and the fire nation are based on Japan, the blue spirit mask (which is in the novelties) is based on a traditional Japanese mask! Meanwhile the dragon, red and gold colours, and Zhuyin kit is very chinese. The merging of these 2 concepts, as well as including this set in the ATLA representative element series is what triggers me
8. Hugs94, you use the authority of "someone who works on social issues" but you don't read the context I wrote in my previous post even tho it explains why it can be interpreted as inappropriate. Where is the proper break down of my ideas and the additional insights from someone in your field instead of the dismissive attitude. Also as someone who relates to others on a regular basis, why the antagonising attitude instead of understanding the perspective of other people and why passionate ATLA fans feel the same way as myself, I'm not the first person to make these comments and I doubt I'll be the last. (Sorry I don't mean to attack you personally, but covid has made me sensitive towards info from authority...)

Ren, this isn't an attack on you or your work and I'm still interested in how this set turns out. Mizu and Terra are absolutely amazing imo and raised a high bar, which is why I'm sad about red dragon since the consistency of the underlying idea isn't quite there. I'm nitpicking at details, but it's accurate details that make nerds like myself appreciative of the efforts put in. Hope your sets go well.

how can someone be so stupid and so confident at the same time

you should be president
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | TGR Alice | Qlavier Ti/Acryl Alice (lost in mail T_T) | Revo One | z

if you're actually reading other people's posts on geekhack in 2020 you're doing something wrong

"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV (fk u)

Offline war40ck

  • Posts: 4
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #144 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 23:02:05 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for positive or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
Won't reply after this but wanted to address your comments.
1. My previous message was entirely my opinion, feel free to disagree
2. I don't feel that strongly about the Zhuyin kit as base, I'm just saying it makes me uncomfortable as someone who knows the ATLA lore and the current situation of chinese culture but not gonna force my opinion down people's throat. Yes my wording could have been better but at least try to understand where I'm coming from if you're gonna have a go at me and ultimately we all want this set to be as good as possible
3. My opinion of chinese culture in the west is political and off topic so I understand why you're annoyed. But it's also an unpopular opinion guaranteed to generate more hate than understanding since, let's face it, nobody gives a **** about chinese culture. So my intentions wasn't to "woke post", but to inform people so that they consider this perspective when they make a decision since they're borrowing ideas from that culture, they can decide to ignore it if they want. My opinion is I'm still uncomfortable with forcing zhuyin in the base for a set originally inspired by japanese culture
4. I'm a supporter of freedom of expression and testing out new designs, which is why I'm interested in how the red on red for these keys will turn out. I also know it is entirely up to the designers to explore their ideas and our role as consumers and lurkers is to support their decision if we like it
5. However, I'm more passionate about ATLA than keycaps so your post has me pissed @Hugs94
6. ATLA travels across a world so of course they're gonna draw influence from multiple sources, but the fire nation is Japan and this kit is based on the fire nation. People have said this before in this thread, and the biggest giveaway is the sun warriors, Japan (日本) literally have the sun character in its name and its national flag is a sun! The earth kingdom is China, just look at their outfits and Long Feng with his shaved head. It's more broadly acceptable to mix these cultures in the west since they're both asian (so not as triggering as chinese character tattoos), but ye... You can make your own opinion
7. I reasoned why the design made me uncomfortable while giving the full context of why it made me feel this way in my previous post. The main problem I have with the current set up is consistency, feels like some of the novelties and original inspiration is separate to the rest of the design. Zuko and the fire nation are based on Japan, the blue spirit mask (which is in the novelties) is based on a traditional Japanese mask! Meanwhile the dragon, red and gold colours, and Zhuyin kit is very chinese. The merging of these 2 concepts, as well as including this set in the ATLA representative element series is what triggers me
8. Hugs94, you use the authority of "someone who works on social issues" but you don't read the context I wrote in my previous post even tho it explains why it can be interpreted as inappropriate. Where is the proper break down of my ideas and the additional insights from someone in your field instead of the dismissive attitude. Also as someone who relates to others on a regular basis, why the antagonising attitude instead of understanding the perspective of other people and why passionate ATLA fans feel the same way as myself, I'm not the first person to make these comments and I doubt I'll be the last. (Sorry I don't mean to attack you personally, but covid has made me sensitive towards info from authority...)

Ren, this isn't an attack on you or your work and I'm still interested in how this set turns out. Mizu and Terra are absolutely amazing imo and raised a high bar, which is why I'm sad about red dragon since the consistency of the underlying idea isn't quite there. I'm nitpicking at details, but it's accurate details that make nerds like myself appreciative of the efforts put in. Hope your sets go well.

If it is opinion based then please stop putting yourself in more awkward situation because of your high iq. Go back to r/mk and post your thoughts under razer/ducky posts. :nottoxic:

Offline CaravanOfPikies

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #145 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 23:04:21 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for positive or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
Won't reply after this but wanted to address your comments.
1. My previous message was entirely my opinion, feel free to disagree
2. I don't feel that strongly about the Zhuyin kit as base, I'm just saying it makes me uncomfortable as someone who knows the ATLA lore and the current situation of chinese culture but not gonna force my opinion down people's throat. Yes my wording could have been better but at least try to understand where I'm coming from if you're gonna have a go at me and ultimately we all want this set to be as good as possible
3. My opinion of chinese culture in the west is political and off topic so I understand why you're annoyed. But it's also an unpopular opinion guaranteed to generate more hate than understanding since, let's face it, nobody gives a **** about chinese culture. So my intentions wasn't to "woke post", but to inform people so that they consider this perspective when they make a decision since they're borrowing ideas from that culture, they can decide to ignore it if they want. My opinion is I'm still uncomfortable with forcing zhuyin in the base for a set originally inspired by japanese culture
4. I'm a supporter of freedom of expression and testing out new designs, which is why I'm interested in how the red on red for these keys will turn out. I also know it is entirely up to the designers to explore their ideas and our role as consumers and lurkers is to support their decision if we like it
5. However, I'm more passionate about ATLA than keycaps so your post has me pissed @Hugs94
6. ATLA travels across a world so of course they're gonna draw influence from multiple sources, but the fire nation is Japan and this kit is based on the fire nation. People have said this before in this thread, and the biggest giveaway is the sun warriors, Japan (日本) literally have the sun character in its name and its national flag is a sun! The earth kingdom is China, just look at their outfits and Long Feng with his shaved head. It's more broadly acceptable to mix these cultures in the west since they're both asian (so not as triggering as chinese character tattoos), but ye... You can make your own opinion
7. I reasoned why the design made me uncomfortable while giving the full context of why it made me feel this way in my previous post. The main problem I have with the current set up is consistency, feels like some of the novelties and original inspiration is separate to the rest of the design. Zuko and the fire nation are based on Japan, the blue spirit mask (which is in the novelties) is based on a traditional Japanese mask! Meanwhile the dragon, red and gold colours, and Zhuyin kit is very chinese. The merging of these 2 concepts, as well as including this set in the ATLA representative element series is what triggers me
8. Hugs94, you use the authority of "someone who works on social issues" but you don't read the context I wrote in my previous post even tho it explains why it can be interpreted as inappropriate. Where is the proper break down of my ideas and the additional insights from someone in your field instead of the dismissive attitude. Also as someone who relates to others on a regular basis, why the antagonising attitude instead of understanding the perspective of other people and why passionate ATLA fans feel the same way as myself, I'm not the first person to make these comments and I doubt I'll be the last. (Sorry I don't mean to attack you personally, but covid has made me sensitive towards info from authority...)

Ren, this isn't an attack on you or your work and I'm still interested in how this set turns out. Mizu and Terra are absolutely amazing imo and raised a high bar, which is why I'm sad about red dragon since the consistency of the underlying idea isn't quite there. I'm nitpicking at details, but it's accurate details that make nerds like myself appreciative of the efforts put in. Hope your sets go well.


https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Influences_on_the_Avatar_series

Offline HypeSloth

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #146 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 23:04:57 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for positive or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
Won't reply after this but wanted to address your comments.
1. My previous message was entirely my opinion, feel free to disagree
2. I don't feel that strongly about the Zhuyin kit as base, I'm just saying it makes me uncomfortable as someone who knows the ATLA lore and the current situation of chinese culture but not gonna force my opinion down people's throat. Yes my wording could have been better but at least try to understand where I'm coming from if you're gonna have a go at me and ultimately we all want this set to be as good as possible
3. My opinion of chinese culture in the west is political and off topic so I understand why you're annoyed. But it's also an unpopular opinion guaranteed to generate more hate than understanding since, let's face it, nobody gives a **** about chinese culture. So my intentions wasn't to "woke post", but to inform people so that they consider this perspective when they make a decision since they're borrowing ideas from that culture, they can decide to ignore it if they want. My opinion is I'm still uncomfortable with forcing zhuyin in the base for a set originally inspired by japanese culture
4. I'm a supporter of freedom of expression and testing out new designs, which is why I'm interested in how the red on red for these keys will turn out. I also know it is entirely up to the designers to explore their ideas and our role as consumers and lurkers is to support their decision if we like it
5. However, I'm more passionate about ATLA than keycaps so your post has me pissed @Hugs94
6. ATLA travels across a world so of course they're gonna draw influence from multiple sources, but the fire nation is Japan and this kit is based on the fire nation. People have said this before in this thread, and the biggest giveaway is the sun warriors, Japan (日本) literally have the sun character in its name and its national flag is a sun! The earth kingdom is China, just look at their outfits and Long Feng with his shaved head. It's more broadly acceptable to mix these cultures in the west since they're both asian (so not as triggering as chinese character tattoos), but ye... You can make your own opinion
7. I reasoned why the design made me uncomfortable while giving the full context of why it made me feel this way in my previous post. The main problem I have with the current set up is consistency, feels like some of the novelties and original inspiration is separate to the rest of the design. Zuko and the fire nation are based on Japan, the blue spirit mask (which is in the novelties) is based on a traditional Japanese mask! Meanwhile the dragon, red and gold colours, and Zhuyin kit is very chinese. The merging of these 2 concepts, as well as including this set in the ATLA representative element series is what triggers me
8. Hugs94, you use the authority of "someone who works on social issues" but you don't read the context I wrote in my previous post even tho it explains why it can be interpreted as inappropriate. Where is the proper break down of my ideas and the additional insights from someone in your field instead of the dismissive attitude. Also as someone who relates to others on a regular basis, why the antagonising attitude instead of understanding the perspective of other people and why passionate ATLA fans feel the same way as myself, I'm not the first person to make these comments and I doubt I'll be the last. (Sorry I don't mean to attack you personally, but covid has made me sensitive towards info from authority...)

Ren, this isn't an attack on you or your work and I'm still interested in how this set turns out. Mizu and Terra are absolutely amazing imo and raised a high bar, which is why I'm sad about red dragon since the consistency of the underlying idea isn't quite there. I'm nitpicking at details, but it's accurate details that make nerds like myself appreciative of the efforts put in. Hope your sets go well.
Cmon man, you really not gonna do a google
https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Influences_on_the_Avatar_series
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 August 2020, 23:09:50 by HypeSloth »

Offline CustomerSupport

  • Posts: 126
  • Location: USA🇺🇸
  • webdev
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #147 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 23:05:09 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for positive or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
Won't reply after this but wanted to address your comments.
1. My previous message was entirely my opinion, feel free to disagree
2. I don't feel that strongly about the Zhuyin kit as base, I'm just saying it makes me uncomfortable as someone who knows the ATLA lore and the current situation of chinese culture but not gonna force my opinion down people's throat. Yes my wording could have been better but at least try to understand where I'm coming from if you're gonna have a go at me and ultimately we all want this set to be as good as possible
3. My opinion of chinese culture in the west is political and off topic so I understand why you're annoyed. But it's also an unpopular opinion guaranteed to generate more hate than understanding since, let's face it, nobody gives a **** about chinese culture. So my intentions wasn't to "woke post", but to inform people so that they consider this perspective when they make a decision since they're borrowing ideas from that culture, they can decide to ignore it if they want. My opinion is I'm still uncomfortable with forcing zhuyin in the base for a set originally inspired by japanese culture
4. I'm a supporter of freedom of expression and testing out new designs, which is why I'm interested in how the red on red for these keys will turn out. I also know it is entirely up to the designers to explore their ideas and our role as consumers and lurkers is to support their decision if we like it
5. However, I'm more passionate about ATLA than keycaps so your post has me pissed @Hugs94
6. ATLA travels across a world so of course they're gonna draw influence from multiple sources, but the fire nation is Japan and this kit is based on the fire nation. People have said this before in this thread, and the biggest giveaway is the sun warriors, Japan (日本) literally have the sun character in its name and its national flag is a sun! The earth kingdom is China, just look at their outfits and Long Feng with his shaved head. It's more broadly acceptable to mix these cultures in the west since they're both asian (so not as triggering as chinese character tattoos), but ye... You can make your own opinion
7. I reasoned why the design made me uncomfortable while giving the full context of why it made me feel this way in my previous post. The main problem I have with the current set up is consistency, feels like some of the novelties and original inspiration is separate to the rest of the design. Zuko and the fire nation are based on Japan, the blue spirit mask (which is in the novelties) is based on a traditional Japanese mask! Meanwhile the dragon, red and gold colours, and Zhuyin kit is very chinese. The merging of these 2 concepts, as well as including this set in the ATLA representative element series is what triggers me
8. Hugs94, you use the authority of "someone who works on social issues" but you don't read the context I wrote in my previous post even tho it explains why it can be interpreted as inappropriate. Where is the proper break down of my ideas and the additional insights from someone in your field instead of the dismissive attitude. Also as someone who relates to others on a regular basis, why the antagonising attitude instead of understanding the perspective of other people and why passionate ATLA fans feel the same way as myself, I'm not the first person to make these comments and I doubt I'll be the last. (Sorry I don't mean to attack you personally, but covid has made me sensitive towards info from authority...)

Ren, this isn't an attack on you or your work and I'm still interested in how this set turns out. Mizu and Terra are absolutely amazing imo and raised a high bar, which is why I'm sad about red dragon since the consistency of the underlying idea isn't quite there. I'm nitpicking at details, but it's accurate details that make nerds like myself appreciative of the efforts put in. Hope your sets go well.

Quote from: avatar.fandom.com link=https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Influences_on_the_Avatar_series
Fire Nation
The culture of the Fire Nation is primarily inspired by East, South, and Southeast Asia.

The topography of the Fire Nation draws most of its influence from Iceland, with photographs of the island being used directly in designing the geography of the nation.[28] In addition, the Fire Nation is located on a series of volcanic islands, similar to a number of real world locations, including Hawaii, Japan, and the Polynesian Islands.
The omnipresent red and gold motifs displayed in Fire Nation architecture and clothing are predominantly seen in traditional Chinese and Southeast Asian cultures.
The architecture of the Fire Nation draws influences on many cultures, but is predominantly similar to Chinese and Southeast Asian architecture.
The Fire Nation Royal Palace draws its influence from Ancient Egyptian and Chinese architecture. In addition, the royal garden is based on classical Chinese garden styles.
The Fire Nation Capital is greatly influenced by the imperial cities of the Han Dynasty, and to a lesser extent, is visually similar to the Forbidden City.
From the exterior, Ember Island architecture most closely resembles that of Southeast Asian resorts.
The more affluent Ember Island residences are adorned with paintings and vases similar to Chinese ones.
The architecture of the Bhanti resembles Southeast Asian architecture. In addition, the statue found in the Bhanti Village temple most closely resembles statues of Buddha in Thai interpretation.
The Fire Temple is nearly a direct replica of Chinese-style pagodas.
The military uniforms of the Fire Nation are clearly based on military uniforms of ancient Chinese militaries, as are many weapons.
Fire Nation attire often resembles Chinese Hanfu. Zuko is sometimes depicted wearing a shenyi.
In Fire Nation royal weddings, the bride has a hairdo similar to the ones worn by Korean Queens.
Fire Nation cuisine closely mirrors Szechuan cuisine.
In one scene, Zuko and Iroh are shown cutting off their top-knots to symbolize their separation from their family and their Nation, a practice that occurred in ancient East Asia.
The Agni Kai is a form of "honor duel" commonly seen in warrior societies in South Asia, particularly South India and Sri Lanka. It literally translates to 'Duel of Fire' or 'Fire Quarrel'.
The creators of Avatar have stated that it is the practice of the Fire Nation for potential rulers to have to "prove their worth" through difficult challenges. This is a practice in many warrior cultures.
Palanquins, used by Fire Nation Royal Family members, were also used in China by the upper classes. One particularly large and luxurious type of palanquin was reserved for the emperor.
Fire Nation propaganda justifying its imperialism is also similar to that of Japan's during World War II, as the Japanese Empire used an ideological construct, "Dai Toa Kyoeikan", meaning "The Great East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere", to justify invading China and conquering the South Pacific, just as the Fire Nation has invaded the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribes.
The Fire Nation is the most industrialized nation in the Avatar world and relies heavily on coal, as did historical industrialized empires of the 19th and 20th centuries.
The Fire Nation has a strong military-industrial complex and a very nationalistic culture replete with propaganda and cult of personality to their ruler, the Fire Lord. The schoolbooks of Fire Nation children are censored to teach them misleading information about the war, similar to schoolbooks in post World War II Japan. These traits are also commonly found in communist countries, such as Maoist China and North Korea.
Sun Warriors
The Sun Warriors' compound includes buildings inspired by Hindu and Buddhist architecture. This architecture is found in Southeast Asian landmarks such as the Candi Sukuh, Angkor Wat, and Phanom Rung.
The Sun Warrior city itself is based on Mesopotamian Architecture, such as the Ziggaurats of Ur.[24]
The Sun Warriors' dress is reminiscent of traditional Southeast Asian warrior dress, particularly the headdresses which resemble Iban feather headdresses.
The Sun Warriors themselves share qualities with the Maya and Aztec cultures of Central America, who were particularly famous as sun-worshipers.

Offline stein3

  • Posts: 53
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #148 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 23:05:13 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for positive or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
6. ATLA travels across a world so of course they're gonna draw influence from multiple sources, but the fire nation is Japan and this kit is based on the fire nation. People have said this before in this thread, and the biggest giveaway is the sun warriors, Japan (日本) literally have the sun character in its name and its national flag is a sun! The earth kingdom is China, just look at their outfits and Long Feng with his shaved head. It's more broadly acceptable to mix these cultures in the west since they're both asian (so not as triggering as chinese character tattoos), but ye... You can make your own opinion
First of all, the Fire Nation is fictional. The culture takes inspiration from many places.
https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Influences_on_the_Avatar_series
It seems to be mostly based on Chinese culture with only a small portion from Japanese culture, though I admit I am not the most familiar.

Offline kimchijody

  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: [IC] GMK Red Dragon | Update #3: Color Poll! 3/27
« Reply #149 on: Mon, 03 August 2020, 23:05:44 »
Wow, as someone who works on social issues. Claiming that putting chinese sublegends in a base kit is far from inappropriate cultural appropriation. Stop 'woke-posting' please. If a designer wants to but chinese sublegends in a kit based around a show that has deep rooted influence with Chinese culture, it's a far cry from using chinese characters as a tattoo. You do understand cultural appropriation is a neutral action right? It's context that gives it a position for positive or inappropriate usage.
This claim is a bigger stretch then how thin Ren is stretched over these sets he's running.
Won't reply after this but wanted to address your comments.
1. My previous message was entirely my opinion, feel free to disagree
2. I don't feel that strongly about the Zhuyin kit as base, I'm just saying it makes me uncomfortable as someone who knows the ATLA lore and the current situation of chinese culture but not gonna force my opinion down people's throat. Yes my wording could have been better but at least try to understand where I'm coming from if you're gonna have a go at me and ultimately we all want this set to be as good as possible
3. My opinion of chinese culture in the west is political and off topic so I understand why you're annoyed. But it's also an unpopular opinion guaranteed to generate more hate than understanding since, let's face it, nobody gives a **** about chinese culture. So my intentions wasn't to "woke post", but to inform people so that they consider this perspective when they make a decision since they're borrowing ideas from that culture, they can decide to ignore it if they want. My opinion is I'm still uncomfortable with forcing zhuyin in the base for a set originally inspired by japanese culture
4. I'm a supporter of freedom of expression and testing out new designs, which is why I'm interested in how the red on red for these keys will turn out. I also know it is entirely up to the designers to explore their ideas and our role as consumers and lurkers is to support their decision if we like it
5. However, I'm more passionate about ATLA than keycaps so your post has me pissed @Hugs94
6. ATLA travels across a world so of course they're gonna draw influence from multiple sources, but the fire nation is Japan and this kit is based on the fire nation. People have said this before in this thread, and the biggest giveaway is the sun warriors, Japan (日本) literally have the sun character in its name and its national flag is a sun! The earth kingdom is China, just look at their outfits and Long Feng with his shaved head. It's more broadly acceptable to mix these cultures in the west since they're both asian (so not as triggering as chinese character tattoos), but ye... You can make your own opinion
7. I reasoned why the design made me uncomfortable while giving the full context of why it made me feel this way in my previous post. The main problem I have with the current set up is consistency, feels like some of the novelties and original inspiration is separate to the rest of the design. Zuko and the fire nation are based on Japan, the blue spirit mask (which is in the novelties) is based on a traditional Japanese mask! Meanwhile the dragon, red and gold colours, and Zhuyin kit is very chinese. The merging of these 2 concepts, as well as including this set in the ATLA representative element series is what triggers me
8. Hugs94, you use the authority of "someone who works on social issues" but you don't read the context I wrote in my previous post even tho it explains why it can be interpreted as inappropriate. Where is the proper break down of my ideas and the additional insights from someone in your field instead of the dismissive attitude. Also as someone who relates to others on a regular basis, why the antagonising attitude instead of understanding the perspective of other people and why passionate ATLA fans feel the same way as myself, I'm not the first person to make these comments and I doubt I'll be the last. (Sorry I don't mean to attack you personally, but covid has made me sensitive towards info from authority...)

Ren, this isn't an attack on you or your work and I'm still interested in how this set turns out. Mizu and Terra are absolutely amazing imo and raised a high bar, which is why I'm sad about red dragon since the consistency of the underlying idea isn't quite there. I'm nitpicking at details, but it's accurate details that make nerds like myself appreciative of the efforts put in. Hope your sets go well.

I was wrong and I admit it. You can do the same it's not too late.....maybe lol

https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Influences_on_the_Avatar_series