Author Topic: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Starts November 16  (Read 79137 times)

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Online psxndc

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #250 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 20:57:40 »
Sweet. And I would 1000% be fine if it was some other generic word there like konstantin was suggesting. I personally have that key mapped to backspace on tap, control on hold and know that others may use it for FN or caps or whatever.

I just don't want tab or Esc because those are R2 and r1 respectively on all my boards and having either of those on R3 and another one on R2 or R1 is just goofy.

Offline tomu

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #251 on: Thu, 16 July 2020, 05:53:14 »
Maybe add prev/skip keys to the novelties kit if you're going to have multimedia keys?

The other kits look pretty spot on though.

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Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #252 on: Thu, 16 July 2020, 11:35:10 »
Sweet. And I would 1000% be fine if it was some other generic word there like konstantin was suggesting. I personally have that key mapped to backspace on tap, control on hold and know that others may use it for FN or caps or whatever.

I just don't want tab or Esc because those are R2 and r1 respectively on all my boards and having either of those on R3 and another one on R2 or R1 is just goofy.

Cool. I would stick with Ctrl because otherwise we have to choose an existing R3 1u legend (to keep the cost down). Not sure what the options are, off the top of my head.

Edit: C70 keyset has R3 1u Code.

Maybe add prev/skip keys to the novelties kit if you're going to have multimedia keys?

The other kits look pretty spot on though.

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It would make sense. I wasn't sure initially if people were on board with the media keys. The new poll seems to suggest so.

Please everyone fill out the new form if you haven't!

Thanks :)

« Last Edit: Thu, 16 July 2020, 11:50:41 by voodoo6k »

Online konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #253 on: Thu, 16 July 2020, 21:04:42 »
Cool. I would stick with Ctrl because otherwise we have to choose an existing R3 1u legend (to keep the cost down). Not sure what the options are, off the top of my head.

Edit: C70 keyset has R3 1u Code.

FYI, any legend mold can be used on any row, except R0 and R5, as long as the key size stays the same. So a 1u Code mold can be used for any 1u Code key on rows 1–4.

Some useful legend-mold–related info from GMK:


List of suggested changes for the 40s kit coming soon!
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 July 2020, 21:08:19 by konstantin »

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #254 on: Fri, 17 July 2020, 09:18:03 »
Cool. I would stick with Ctrl because otherwise we have to choose an existing R3 1u legend (to keep the cost down). Not sure what the options are, off the top of my head.

Edit: C70 keyset has R3 1u Code.

FYI, any legend mold can be used on any row, except R0 and R5, as long as the key size stays the same. So a 1u Code mold can be used for any 1u Code key on rows 1–4.

Some useful legend-mold–related info from GMK:
Show Image


List of suggested changes for the 40s kit coming soon!

Good to know! :thumb:

Edit:

Small correction on the ortho & 40's set (Code -> Alt) for Prime_E, AMJ40, JD45, etc.:

« Last Edit: Fri, 17 July 2020, 10:59:05 by voodoo6k »

Offline voodoo6k

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Offline NorrittMTG

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #256 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 16:41:42 »
I would snap this set up in a heartbeat if it had better UK ISO support.
Just R4 |\ and R3 #~ in the base would be fine but ideally full U.K. ISO even if it’s an additional kit

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #257 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 21:41:43 »
I would snap this set up in a heartbeat if it had better UK ISO support.
Just R4 |\ and R3 #~ in the base would be fine but ideally full U.K. ISO even if it’s an additional kit

ISO has been discussed at length in this thread... in summary: we decided to go with an ISO-US variant, instead of ISO-UK, because:

1. Less keys = less expensive base set;
2. While ISO-UK is arguably the most popular ISO layout, it doesn't outweigh the other international layouts;
3. ISO-UK and international kit sales in general are very poor relative to the base set.

So I added a NorDeUK option to the form. If there's enough interest, then we'll add it!

Our EU vendor really wants one... ;)


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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #258 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 22:59:05 »
Lookin at these renders, wondering why I try  :'(

Beautiful set man.

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #259 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 12:33:57 »
Lookin at these renders, wondering why I try  :'(

Beautiful set man.

Thank you... Your renders are awesome! :thumb:

[...]
List of suggested changes for the 40s kit coming soon!

Every day that goes by without a reply... I imagine you like this:

Ohhh I can't find anything wrong with! It's already perrrfect!!


Online konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #260 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 14:05:31 »
Every day that goes by without a reply... I imagine you like this:

Ohhh I can't find anything wrong with! It's already perrrfect!!

Show Image


Doing some research for one of my own 40s kits, I want to wait until I finish that to make sure I don't miss anything here. Granted, it's only a few keys so far ;)

Offline Kalabalik

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #261 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 02:06:11 »
Set of the year right here. Can't wait.

Offline robrobro

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #262 on: Thu, 23 July 2020, 10:33:18 »
I really like this set! I had decided on a few more sets this year and to draw the line there, but I think my will is broken and I’ll have to get this.

Offline hottrout

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #263 on: Thu, 23 July 2020, 12:33:33 »
Where did the UK ISO go?
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Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #264 on: Thu, 23 July 2020, 12:50:23 »
Set of the year right here. Can't wait.

I really like this set! I had decided on a few more sets this year and to draw the line there, but I think my will is broken and I’ll have to get this.

 :thumb:

Where did the UK ISO go?

It went to NorDeUK. Don't forget to select it in the form. If there's enough interest, we'll add it.

I have to admit, I wasn't really aware of ISO-US before this IC... it's a more coherent solution to ISO compatibility.


Offline robrobro

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #265 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 15:37:27 »
A couple of thoughts, I really like the idea of using a dot dot the second alice B. Would it make sense to include a dot alongside the extra b in that kit?

Also it would be fun with some eye-bee-m novelties/artisans based on the work of Paul Rand.

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #266 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 17:59:00 »
A couple of thoughts, I really like the idea of using a dot dot the second alice B. Would it make sense to include a dot alongside the extra b in that kit?

Also it would be fun with some eye-bee-m novelties/artisans based on the work of Paul Rand.

I didn't know about that logo.

It's super nice, however I'm afraid we can't step into trademark territory...

As for the Dots, I have permission from Biip (original designer) to use them as novelties, so I won't put one in Extension.


Offline Pejano

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #267 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 05:51:55 »
As a UK user, I can survive with ISO-US and I think that's an efficient compromise. Thanks to stock colours, we can use GMK WoB NorDeUK++ if that hopefully gets a re-run this year.

Offline godofdeath

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #268 on: Mon, 27 July 2020, 08:14:03 »
Any F13?

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Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #269 on: Mon, 27 July 2020, 08:16:59 »
Any F13?

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Offline Owl

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #270 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 19:45:29 »
Not sure why I am only just now seeing this. I ****ing love Thinkpads so this is a must-have for me. Thank you. Any projections on GB?

Offline baccaan

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #271 on: Fri, 31 July 2020, 22:21:36 »
 Any chance of offering Vim keycaps as an addon? I think that'd go nicely with the set and the thinkpad aesthetic. I really dig the set!!

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #272 on: Sat, 01 August 2020, 09:42:31 »
Not sure why I am only just now seeing this. I ****ing love Thinkpads so this is a must-have for me. Thank you. Any projections on GB?

Q4 2020!

Any chance of offering Vim keycaps as an addon? I think that'd go nicely with the set and the thinkpad aesthetic. I really dig the set!!

Yeah, I agree. Maybe if there's room in the Extension kit. No promises.

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #273 on: Sun, 09 August 2020, 18:14:13 »
Every day that goes by without a reply... I imagine you like this:

Ohhh I can't find anything wrong with! It's already perrrfect!!

Show Image


Doing some research for one of my own 40s kits, I want to wait until I finish that to make sure I don't miss anything here. Granted, it's only a few keys so far ;)

Still waiting...

Online psxndc

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[IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #274 on: Sun, 09 August 2020, 18:20:31 »
...
Doing some research for one of my own 40s kits, I want to wait until I finish that to make sure I don't miss anything here. Granted, it's only a few keys so far ;)

Still waiting...

Offline VXQN

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #275 on: Mon, 10 August 2020, 03:48:35 »
Would love it if there was some way of inlcuding more ISO (UK) caps. I know there's a WoB NORDEUK GB going on but it's likely that it either won't run, or will arrive later than ThinkCaps.

Offline therealemanuelmartinez

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #276 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 23:57:28 »
I’m in for everything except alphas.


A couple of thoughts, I really like the idea of using a dot dot the second alice B. Would it make sense to include a dot alongside the extra b in that kit?

Also it would be fun with some eye-bee-m novelties/artisans based on the work of Paul Rand.

I didn't know about that logo.

It's super nice, however I'm afraid we can't step into trademark territory...

As for the Dots, I have permission from Biip (original designer) to use them as novelties, so I won't put one in Extension.

Show Image


Mayhaps we can contact the company? Also, please check out their color palettes which are public! I understand they are web colors but it's my understanding they are also refined across materials.

It's moderately funny that this is basically their laws/principles of color:
https://www.ibm.com/design/language/color/

You might be able to use interest check numbers to leverage the idea of them allowing you to use that poster design when you get in contact with the correct staffing at IBM. Here's another piece of the puzzle, take it with a fist sized rock of pink Himalayan salt because Wikipedia.
not covered under fair use as corporate identity/logo because it is not an official company logo (nor is it endorsed by IBM)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eye-Bee-M-Poster.jpg
« Last Edit: Mon, 17 August 2020, 10:54:24 by therealemanuelmartinez »


Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #277 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 13:45:17 »
I’m in for everything except alphas.


A couple of thoughts, I really like the idea of using a dot dot the second alice B. Would it make sense to include a dot alongside the extra b in that kit?

Also it would be fun with some eye-bee-m novelties/artisans based on the work of Paul Rand.

I didn't know about that logo.

It's super nice, however I'm afraid we can't step into trademark territory...

As for the Dots, I have permission from Biip (original designer) to use them as novelties, so I won't put one in Extension.

Show Image


Mayhaps we can contact the company? Also, please check out their color palettes which are public! I understand they are web colors but it's my understanding they are also refined across materials.

It's moderately funny that this is basically their laws/principles of color:
https://www.ibm.com/design/language/color/

You might be able to use interest check numbers to leverage the idea of them allowing you to use that poster design when you get in contact with the correct staffing at IBM. Here's another piece of the puzzle, take it with a fist sized rock of pink Himalayan salt because Wikipedia.
not covered under fair use as corporate identity/logo because it is not an official company logo (nor is it endorsed by IBM)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eye-Bee-M-Poster.jpg

I mean, yeah. This site is a gold mine when it comes to design inspiration. More on the IBM bee/rebus logos.

Despite the download agreement, I'm not completely clear on what can be used, freely, for commercial purposes.

I'm already using the IBM Plex font for the kit renders. Not sure if I want to poke the bear any further...

Offline therealemanuelmartinez

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #278 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 15:01:37 »
I’m in for everything except alphas.


A couple of thoughts, I really like the idea of using a dot dot the second alice B. Would it make sense to include a dot alongside the extra b in that kit?

Also it would be fun with some eye-bee-m novelties/artisans based on the work of Paul Rand.

I didn't know about that logo.

It's super nice, however I'm afraid we can't step into trademark territory...

As for the Dots, I have permission from Biip (original designer) to use them as novelties, so I won't put one in Extension.

Show Image


Mayhaps we can contact the company? Also, please check out their color palettes which are public! I understand they are web colors but it's my understanding they are also refined across materials.

It's moderately funny that this is basically their laws/principles of color:
https://www.ibm.com/design/language/color/

You might be able to use interest check numbers to leverage the idea of them allowing you to use that poster design when you get in contact with the correct staffing at IBM. Here's another piece of the puzzle, take it with a fist sized rock of pink Himalayan salt because Wikipedia.
not covered under fair use as corporate identity/logo because it is not an official company logo (nor is it endorsed by IBM)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eye-Bee-M-Poster.jpg

I mean, yeah. This site is a gold mine when it comes to design inspiration. More on the IBM bee/rebus logos.

Despite the download agreement, I'm not completely clear on what can be used, freely, for commercial purposes.

I'm already using the IBM Plex font for the kit renders. Not sure if I want to poke the bear any further...

I'm not a lawyer, but this is how it appears to me.
  • The IBM rebus is, in its essence, an artistic adaptation of the IBM logo.
    • If the likeness of the 8 bar logo M is removed you will have greater favor.
  • The font's name, Plex, is a registered trademark.
    • The design however, might not be.
This is important in relation to the hyperlinked agreement, I implore you to read these sections as it also pertains to the font you are using (quoted for brevity):
Quote
  • The following are terms of a legal downloader agreement (the “Agreement”) regarding Your download of Content (as defined below) from this Website
    • This Website may contain other proprietary notices and copyright information, the terms of which must be observed and followed
    • Any use of the Content in violation of this Agreement is strictly prohibited
  • The Content may be provided by IBM or third-parties
    • IBM-Content is owned by IBM and is copyrighted and licensed, not sold
    • Third-party Content is owned by its respective owner and is licensed by the third party directly to You
      • IBM’s decision to permit posting of third-party Content does not constitute an express or implied license from IBM to You or a recommendation or endorsement by IBM of any particular product, service, company or technology
  • The party providing the Content (the “Provider”) grants You a nonexclusive, worldwide, irrevocable, royalty-free, copyright license
    • edit, copy, reproduce, publish, publicly display and/or perform, format, modify and/or make derivative works of, translate, re-arrange, and distribute the Content or any portions thereof and to sublicense any or all such rights and to permit sublicensees to further sublicense such rights
    • for both commercial and non-commercial use, provided You abide by the terms of this Agreement
    • Neither IBM nor the provider of the Content grants a patent license of any kind, whether expressed or implied or by estoppel
    • As a condition of exercising the rights and licenses granted under this Agreement, You assume sole responsibility to obtain any other intellectual property rights needed
  • The Provider of the Content is the party that submitted the Content for Posting and who represents and warrants that they own all of the Content, (or have obtained all written releases, authorizations and licenses from any other owner(s) necessary to grant IBM and downloaders this license with respect to portions of the Content not owned by the Provider)

This being my supporting material, I can say that by using the three components of the IBM rebus separately (as three individual novelties: Eye, Bee, [monogram] M) with recommendations stated prior is of equal or lesser level to using the Plex font which is a registered trademark. Note that all trademarks are removed in their reference images of the IBM rebus on their website:


This is not legal advice.


Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #279 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 15:21:23 »
I’m in for everything except alphas.


A couple of thoughts, I really like the idea of using a dot dot the second alice B. Would it make sense to include a dot alongside the extra b in that kit?

Also it would be fun with some eye-bee-m novelties/artisans based on the work of Paul Rand.

I didn't know about that logo.

It's super nice, however I'm afraid we can't step into trademark territory...

As for the Dots, I have permission from Biip (original designer) to use them as novelties, so I won't put one in Extension.

Show Image


Mayhaps we can contact the company? Also, please check out their color palettes which are public! I understand they are web colors but it's my understanding they are also refined across materials.

It's moderately funny that this is basically their laws/principles of color:
https://www.ibm.com/design/language/color/

You might be able to use interest check numbers to leverage the idea of them allowing you to use that poster design when you get in contact with the correct staffing at IBM. Here's another piece of the puzzle, take it with a fist sized rock of pink Himalayan salt because Wikipedia.
not covered under fair use as corporate identity/logo because it is not an official company logo (nor is it endorsed by IBM)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eye-Bee-M-Poster.jpg

I mean, yeah. This site is a gold mine when it comes to design inspiration. More on the IBM bee/rebus logos.

Despite the download agreement, I'm not completely clear on what can be used, freely, for commercial purposes.

I'm already using the IBM Plex font for the kit renders. Not sure if I want to poke the bear any further...

I'm not a lawyer, but this is how it appears to me.
  • The IBM rebus is, in its essence, an artistic adaptation of the IBM logo.
    • If the likeness of the 8 bar logo M is removed you will have greater favor.
  • The font's name, Plex, is a registered trademark.
    • The design however, might not be.
This is important in relation to the hyperlinked agreement, I implore you to read these sections as it also pertains to the font you are using (quoted for brevity):
Quote
  • The following are terms of a legal downloader agreement (the “Agreement”) regarding Your download of Content (as defined below) from this Website
    • This Website may contain other proprietary notices and copyright information, the terms of which must be observed and followed
    • Any use of the Content in violation of this Agreement is strictly prohibited
  • The Content may be provided by IBM or third-parties
    • IBM-Content is owned by IBM and is copyrighted and licensed, not sold
    • Third-party Content is owned by its respective owner and is licensed by the third party directly to You
      • IBM’s decision to permit posting of third-party Content does not constitute an express or implied license from IBM to You or a recommendation or endorsement by IBM of any particular product, service, company or technology
  • The party providing the Content (the “Provider”) grants You a nonexclusive, worldwide, irrevocable, royalty-free, copyright license
    • edit, copy, reproduce, publish, publicly display and/or perform, format, modify and/or make derivative works of, translate, re-arrange, and distribute the Content or any portions thereof and to sublicense any or all such rights and to permit sublicensees to further sublicense such rights
    • for both commercial and non-commercial use, provided You abide by the terms of this Agreement
    • Neither IBM nor the provider of the Content grants a patent license of any kind, whether expressed or implied or by estoppel
    • As a condition of exercising the rights and licenses granted under this Agreement, You assume sole responsibility to obtain any other intellectual property rights needed
  • The Provider of the Content is the party that submitted the Content for Posting and who represents and warrants that they own all of the Content, (or have obtained all written releases, authorizations and licenses from any other owner(s) necessary to grant IBM and downloaders this license with respect to portions of the Content not owned by the Provider)

This being my supporting material, I can say that by using the three components of the IBM rebus separately (as three individual novelties: Eye, Bee, [monogram] M) with recommendations stated prior is of equal or lesser level to using the Plex font which is a registered trademark. Note that all trademarks are removed in their reference images of the IBM rebus on their website:

Show Image

This is not legal advice.

Regarding the Plex Sans font:

Quote
These fonts are licensed under the Open Font License.

You can use them freely in your products & projects - print or digital, commercial or otherwise. However, you can't sell the fonts on their own.

This isn't legal advice, please consider consulting a lawyer and see the full license for all details.

As for IBM rebus, I'm not really comfortable using it or any parts of it.

Offline therealemanuelmartinez

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #280 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 15:50:41 »
Quote
As for IBM rebus, I'm not really comfortable using it or any parts of it.

Fair enough, I believe you would receive overwhelming support and respect if you successfully coordinated with IBM to do so. If this was a set I was designing I would make it happen, with all consequences registered. You don't have to change your mind, because your decision is correct and within your own tolerances. As you said in your post, this is an Thinkpad-IBM/Lenovo set rather than one that is exclusively IBM. As a fellow designer though, I say it's a let down and missed opportunity. That's all the feedback I have to offer besides using custom colors.


Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #281 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 18:28:06 »
Quote
As for IBM rebus, I'm not really comfortable using it or any parts of it.

Fair enough, I believe you would receive overwhelming support and respect if you successfully coordinated with IBM to do so. If this was a set I was designing I would make it happen, with all consequences registered. You don't have to change your mind, because your decision is correct and within your own tolerances. As you said in your post, this is an Thinkpad-IBM/Lenovo set rather than one that is exclusively IBM. As a fellow designer though, I say it's a let down and missed opportunity. That's all the feedback I have to offer besides using custom colors.

I'm just a simple person in the face of a giant corporation. :rolleyes:

I would be very surprised if IBM let us use their IP (at all) without any restrictions. That's if you expected a response in the first place!

Online konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #282 on: Fri, 21 August 2020, 09:34:49 »
Doing some research for one of my own 40s kits, I want to wait until I finish that to make sure I don't miss anything here. Granted, it's only a few keys so far ;)

Still waiting...

Hi there ;) Sorry to keep you waiting! I was away for a bit. Here you go:

Show Image

  • Standalone orthogonal and 40% set (250 MOQ)
  • R3 1u Tab/Ctrl/Enter, all minibars, MiniVan modifiers, etc.
  • Alternative extention set: https://i.imgur.com/2jaf2Ep.jpg

Kitting suggestions
  • Let's start with the biggest change proposition I have, which goes beyond just the Ortho & 40's kit. That is replacing Code with either System or Start, and then changing R3 1u Ctrl to Code in the 40s kit, as we've discussed previously.
    • I believe you've said that you aren't a fan of Code. That's good, because I think Code doesn't make sense as an OS key legend.
    • Lenovo has a history of using Start as an OS key legend on their standalone ThinkPad keyboards. Start molds exist in both 1.25u and 1u; GMK DMG introduced them. I don't think that a 1.5u Start mold exists, but this isn't a problem as GMK ThinkCaps doesn't have textual 1.5u OS keys, only .
    • The other option is System, which exists in 1.25u (introduced by GMK Yugo) and 1u as Sys (one of Cherry's OG molds). System is a good legend choice since OS keys do system-specific actions.
    • As mentioned previously in the thread, R3 1u Code will allow the key to cover for Shift, Caps and Fn, in addition to Ctrl. An approximate usage distribution for these keys can be found here (sans Fn as that wasn't included in the survey, but rest assured that that key is also used).
    • Action points: Change 1.25u Code legends to Start or System, and change 1u Code to Start or Sys, in the TKL and 40s kits (keep 1.5u Code in 40s as this is a generic key). Afterwards, change R3 1u Ctrl to Code in 40s kit.

  • The second R4 1u Fn key can be removed.
    • Most ortho boards use at most 3 layer keys (Lower, Raise, Fn). Some layouts (including the Planck default one) have a dedicated “config” key (e.g. for backlight), but a single Fn covers for that.
    • Some layouts use two layer/config/other keys alongside Lower and Raise. Meta covers for this as it's a generic legend.
    • Pretty much no layouts use two Fn keys that do the same thing, which renders the second Fn key fairly useless.
    • I based this analysis on various Planck, Preonic, Boardwalk, XD75 user layouts found on Google Images, the r/mk and OLKB subreddits, QMK keymap repos and the Plank EZ keymap repo, as well as discussions with other ortho users in the 40% Discord.
    • Action points: Remove second R4 1u Fn from the 40s kit.

  • Move accent 1u spacekeys to the Spacebars kit.
    • 2u space is at least as popular as 2× 1u space on ortho layouts. Additionally, 2u space is used by some staggered 40% boards. Despite this, there is no accent 2u space in the 40s kit, only 1u's.
    • Having accent 1u spacekeys in Spacebars would:
      • reduce the size of the 40s kit by two keys;
      • make the Spacebars and Extension kits fully symmetric in terms of offered split spacekeys;
      • also allow Alice users to have an accent 1u spacekey (a use case which I mentioned in our previous discussion, here and here).
    • Action points: Move both blue 1u spacekeys from 40s to Spacebars.

  • Add R3 1.25u Code or Fn.
    • R3 1.25u is a very common key on staggered 40% boards, but not all users like to put Tab there (which is currently the only option offered in the kit). Some use Fn, some use Ctrl, and so on.
    • Additionally, if this key is added, two more boards will be able to be covered: Dimple and UT47.2 (a widely available 40% board). These boards use a R3 1.25u Enter in addition to a R3 1.25u Tab. See the Comments & remarks section below for more details.
    • Similar to the proposed R3 1u Code key for ortho, Code is an appropriate legend here because it's generic and can fill many roles (Fn, Ctrl, Enter...).
    • Action points: Add R3 1.25u Code or Fn to 40s.

  • Kit looks good otherwise!

Comments & remarks
  • The following 40% boards can be outfitted by purchasing Icon Mods in addition to Ortho & 40's:
    • Prime_E (uses six 1.25u keys in total)
    • Equinox, Romeo (uses 1.5u Backspace, 1.5u Tab, 1.75u Caps, 2.25u Enter)
    • if R3 1.25u Code or Fn is added to 40s: Dimple, UT47.2 (uses 1.5u Backspace)
« Last Edit: Fri, 21 August 2020, 09:58:16 by konstantin »

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #283 on: Fri, 21 August 2020, 09:37:30 »
Thanks! Let me get back to you ;)

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #284 on: Sat, 22 August 2020, 12:30:51 »
Doing some research for one of my own 40s kits, I want to wait until I finish that to make sure I don't miss anything here. Granted, it's only a few keys so far ;)

Still waiting...

Hi there ;) Sorry to keep you waiting! I was away for a bit. Here you go:

Show Image

  • Standalone orthogonal and 40% set (250 MOQ)
  • R3 1u Tab/Ctrl/Enter, all minibars, MiniVan modifiers, etc.
  • Alternative extention set: https://i.imgur.com/2jaf2Ep.jpg

Kitting suggestions
  • Let's start with the biggest change proposition I have, which goes beyond just the Ortho & 40's kit. That is replacing Code with either System or Start, and then changing R3 1u Ctrl to Code in the 40s kit, as we've discussed previously.
    • I believe you've said that you aren't a fan of Code. That's good, because I think Code doesn't make sense as an OS key legend.
    • Lenovo has a history of using Start as an OS key legend on their standalone ThinkPad keyboards. Start molds exist in both 1.25u and 1u; GMK DMG introduced them. I don't think that a 1.5u Start mold exists, but this isn't a problem as GMK ThinkCaps doesn't have textual 1.5u OS keys, only .
    • The other option is System, which exists in 1.25u (introduced by GMK Yugo) and 1u as Sys (one of Cherry's OG molds). System is a good legend choice since OS keys do system-specific actions.
    • As mentioned previously in the thread, R3 1u Code will allow the key to cover for Shift, Caps and Fn, in addition to Ctrl. An approximate usage distribution for these keys can be found here (sans Fn as that wasn't included in the survey, but rest assured that that key is also used).
    • Action points: Change 1.25u Code legends to Start or System, and change 1u Code to Start or Sys, in the TKL and 40s kits (keep 1.5u Code in 40s as this is a generic key). Afterwards, change R3 1u Ctrl to Code in 40s kit.

  • The second R4 1u Fn key can be removed.
    • Most ortho boards use at most 3 layer keys (Lower, Raise, Fn). Some layouts (including the Planck default one) have a dedicated “config” key (e.g. for backlight), but a single Fn covers for that.
    • Some layouts use two layer/config/other keys alongside Lower and Raise. Meta covers for this as it's a generic legend.
    • Pretty much no layouts use two Fn keys that do the same thing, which renders the second Fn key fairly useless.
    • I based this analysis on various Planck, Preonic, Boardwalk, XD75 user layouts found on Google Images, the r/mk and OLKB subreddits, QMK keymap repos and the Plank EZ keymap repo, as well as discussions with other ortho users in the 40% Discord.
    • Action points: Remove second R4 1u Fn from the 40s kit.

  • Move accent 1u spacekeys to the Spacebars kit.
    • 2u space is at least as popular as 2× 1u space on ortho layouts. Additionally, 2u space is used by some staggered 40% boards. Despite this, there is no accent 2u space in the 40s kit, only 1u's.
    • Having accent 1u spacekeys in Spacebars would:
      • reduce the size of the 40s kit by two keys;
      • make the Spacebars and Extension kits fully symmetric in terms of offered split spacekeys;
      • also allow Alice users to have an accent 1u spacekey (a use case which I mentioned in our previous discussion, here and here).
    • Action points: Move both blue 1u spacekeys from 40s to Spacebars.

  • Add R3 1.25u Code or Fn.
    • R3 1.25u is a very common key on staggered 40% boards, but not all users like to put Tab there (which is currently the only option offered in the kit). Some use Fn, some use Ctrl, and so on.
    • Additionally, if this key is added, two more boards will be able to be covered: Dimple and UT47.2 (a widely available 40% board). These boards use a R3 1.25u Enter in addition to a R3 1.25u Tab. See the Comments & remarks section below for more details.
    • Similar to the proposed R3 1u Code key for ortho, Code is an appropriate legend here because it's generic and can fill many roles (Fn, Ctrl, Enter...).
    • Action points: Add R3 1.25u Code or Fn to 40s.

  • Kit looks good otherwise!

Comments & remarks
  • The following 40% boards can be outfitted by purchasing Icon Mods in addition to Ortho & 40's:
    • Prime_E (uses six 1.25u keys in total)
    • Equinox, Romeo (uses 1.5u Backspace, 1.5u Tab, 1.75u Caps, 2.25u Enter)
    • if R3 1.25u Code or Fn is added to 40s: Dimple, UT47.2 (uses 1.5u Backspace)

Good points. My answer is simple: I agree with almost everything.

  • I'm not decided on System vs Code. I personally like System, but I think most people are used to Code as the most neutral "system" key. Another argument for Code is that it fits on both 1.25u and 1.5u keys, while being aesthetically pleasing. Start is just aweful. As for ortho, thinking about adding R3 1u Code... though from the comments, most people are fine with Ctrl.
  • We could remove one R4 1u Fn. The reason for it is mostly the Vortex Core, which uses two (or three) Fn keys. Perhaps its popularity has waned over the years. In general, Fn is one of the only keys that looks good when repeated.
  • (2) x blue R4C 1u's: I think it makes sense in the Ortho set because:
    • There's not enough blue accents (without them). Otherwise, additional blue Lower/Raise is redundant;
    • You can use them to either replace or together with Lower/Raise, as spacekeys or other;
    • Bonus: ortho users don't have to buy Spacebars kit for two small keys.
  • Lastly, adding R3 1.25u Ctrl or Fn or Code makes sense. It's just a matter of pricing. As is, Ortho & 40's set is already one or two keys over budget. It's just too bad that there's no other option in the other kits.

Offline nevin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #285 on: Sat, 22 August 2020, 13:32:01 »
Wish more ortho kits supported larger split orthos. (another 2u key, and enough keys to populate 14 columns instead of just 12).
If you're transitioning to ortho, 14 is a much easier transition than going down to 12.

- love the colorway though.
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Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #286 on: Sat, 22 August 2020, 13:44:05 »
Wish more ortho kits supported larger split orthos. (another 2u key, and enough keys to populate 14 columns instead of just 12).
If you're transitioning to ortho, 14 is a much easier transition than going down to 12.

- love the colorway though.

I know... I wish I could add another 2u, but you can choose your preferred colour in either Spacebars or Extension kit.

As mentioned in the post above, we're already stretching the budget on that Ortho & 40's set. You have to consider that even when getting both Ortho + (Spacebars or Extension), it will still be much cheaper and more compatible than the traditional GMK base set with minimal 40's kit.

Offline nevin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #287 on: Sat, 22 August 2020, 15:17:17 »
wishful thinking i guess...
will wait to see what final pricing ends up being.
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Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #288 on: Sat, 22 August 2020, 19:21:31 »
wishful thinking i guess...
will wait to see what final pricing ends up being.

Out of curiosity and for future reference, what 14-column friendly keys would you say are missing, apart from the 2u spacebar?

Online konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the NEW form!
« Reply #289 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 08:14:36 »
Good points. My answer is simple: I agree with almost everything.

  • I'm not decided on System vs Code. I personally like System, but I think most people are used to Code as the most neutral "system" key. Another argument for Code is that it fits on both 1.25u and 1.5u keys, while being aesthetically pleasing. Start is just aweful. As for ortho, thinking about adding R3 1u Code... though from the comments, most people are fine with Ctrl.
  • We could remove one R4 1u Fn. The reason for it is mostly the Vortex Core, which uses two (or three) Fn keys. Perhaps its popularity has waned over the years. In general, Fn is one of the only keys that looks good when repeated.
  • (2) x blue R4C 1u's: I think it makes sense in the Ortho set because:
    • There's not enough blue accents (without them). Otherwise, additional blue Lower/Raise is redundant;
    • You can use them to either replace or together with Lower/Raise, as spacekeys or other;
    • Bonus: ortho users don't have to buy Spacebars kit for two small keys.
  • Lastly, adding R3 1.25u Ctrl or Fn or Code makes sense. It's just a matter of pricing. As is, Ortho & 40's set is already one or two keys over budget. It's just too bad that there's no other option in the other kits.

Why do you say that people are used to Code? Code is fairly rare compared to Super (unless you consider Super to not be “neutral”?). Taking a look at all GMK sets ran this year (using KeycapLendar) gives the following breakdown:
  • Super – 31 sets
  • Code – 12 sets
  • System/Sys – 6 sets
  • Win – 1 set
  • Novelty or icon – 8 sets
Like Code, Super also fits on all sizes (1u, 1.25u, 1.5u). Also, you have to keep in mind that System is a fairly new legend, introduced as late as January this year, whereas Super and Code have been around for ages and designers are used to using them (perhaps some aren't even aware yet that System exists — I know a few cases where this was true).

Imo, if you prefer System then go for it — its popularity will grow in time if designers like you choose to use it :)

Another thing to keep in mind is that this is specific to GMK. If you look at KAT sets, pretty much all of them use Sys. So it's not like Sys(tem) is a foreign legend to people or that they aren't accustomed to it.



Other than that, I think that exchanging the second R4 1u Fn for a R3 1.25u key is a very reasonable change, and definitely one that you should make. The Vortex Core use case is covered by the Meta key (the second “Fn” key on the Core is Pn, not a second Fn) plus Lower/Raise, so a second Fn is actually not required. Even if it was, you have to keep in mind that Vortex Core is not a very popular keyboard. On the other hand, R3 1.25u is a standard staggered 40% key. Adding a generic key in this row/size not only gives additional legend options to users who need it, but also adds physical compatibility for certain boards which is currently missing (2× R3 1.25u).
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 August 2020, 08:45:04 by konstantin »

Offline therealemanuelmartinez

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #290 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 09:17:35 »
I say the meta/super/winkey is down to designer’s interpretation and purpose with the keyset


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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #291 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 09:24:20 »
Some are very vocal with their preferences for a particular legend. I agree that the OP may listen the suggestions, but have the final word on the subject.



Offline nevin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #292 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 12:05:31 »
wishful thinking i guess...
will wait to see what final pricing ends up being.

Out of curiosity and for future reference, what 14-column friendly keys would you say are missing, apart from the 2u spacebar?

after looking at it again, looks like it would be covered. you're right, actually more than most, even a couple blanks and plenty of R4 to populate the bottom two rows.
as far as boards i was talking about... keeb.io viterbi, ergodash, orbit, 5x7 manuform, etc. larger than 5x6 split orthos.
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Offline Curin Derwin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #293 on: Thu, 27 August 2020, 07:22:38 »
Buying when available.

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #294 on: Thu, 27 August 2020, 09:34:31 »
The Icon Mods kit is missing the Esc key in its icon version.  :(



Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #295 on: Thu, 27 August 2020, 13:35:56 »
The Icon Mods kit is missing the Esc key in its icon version.  :(

Isn't that a Mac thing?

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #296 on: Thu, 27 August 2020, 17:47:14 »
The Icon Mods kit is missing the Esc key in its icon version.  :(

Isn't that a Mac thing?




I am a PC user and I have never used a Mac, so I know nothing about Macs. I have this example of a previous Icon Mod kit.







Offline DomAndretti

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #297 on: Thu, 27 August 2020, 22:36:02 »
Are you thinking about offering a led cut out on the caps lock? either way i am buying these when they make it to GB. If we fill out the IC form is there anyway to receive an email when these hit GB? I do not want to miss out on these.

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #298 on: Fri, 28 August 2020, 12:50:02 »
Are you thinking about offering a led cut out on the caps lock? either way i am buying these when they make it to GB. If we fill out the IC form is there anyway to receive an email when these hit GB? I do not want to miss out on these.

Yes, we'll send an email to those who filled out the form before the GB goes live.

I post updates across all platforms: geekhack, Deskthority, keebtalk, Drop, reddit, Instagram, my GB portal yakk.shop and our Discord server, and probably others I'm forgetting. Discord and geekhack have the most up-to-date info.


About the windowed Caps Lock, GMK Dolch R5 (ends Sept. 4) has an Extension kit containing plenty of good stuff, such as R3/windowed keys, F13, and so forth:



Dolch R5 and ThinkCaps are complementary because we use same coloured modifiers (N9/CP). Bear in mind that Dolch R5 has a R5 bottom row...

Offline nevin

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Re: [IC] GMK ThinkCaps // Please fill out the new form!
« Reply #299 on: Fri, 28 August 2020, 13:18:32 »
The Icon Mods kit is missing the Esc key in its icon version.  :(

Isn't that a Mac thing?




I am a PC user and I have never used a Mac, so I know nothing about Macs. I have this example of a previous Icon Mod kit.




Show Image


that esc icon made it's first mac appearance on the apple adjustable keyboard (icon was not on the keycap, but beside it on the case). it was later part of the "think different" keyset and i'm sure has been used in a couple mac-centric sets since.
- also the modifier key right next to the spacebar is the icon for apple's "option" key (alt on pc)
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