Author Topic: Why do people hate hotswap?  (Read 13114 times)

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Offline Sup

  • Posts: 897
    • Supkbd
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #100 on: Sat, 04 April 2020, 06:25:31 »
The reasons i hate hotswap

  • Switches don't sit flush or some don't even fit properly
  • Fixed lay-out
  • Doesn't feel like building a custom at all just putting lego bricks together(Doesn't feel custom to me)
  • No craftsmanship

I am happy for the new people that can easily just test switches but please don't come with your suggestions on high end boards IC/GB and say " no hotswap no buy or No hotswap is a deal breaker for me".
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #101 on: Sat, 04 April 2020, 19:42:13 »
solderless electrical connections(also mentioned) have been used in industry for years for mission critical applications.
And every single one of them was designed to be a solderless electrical connection from the start.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | HMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline typo

  • Posts: 1525
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #102 on: Sun, 05 April 2020, 01:42:54 »
And hot Swap was not? The sockets are not proprietary for their usage? The issue is mainly the sockets themselves. If they deployed Mil-spec gas-tight sockets there would be no issues whatsoever. only issue is $300 a socket. check Mouser.

BTW, good job not taking the bait.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 05 April 2020, 04:36:03 »
And hot Swap was not?
You're looking at the wrong half of the equation, the hot swap was designed for it, the switches were not.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | HMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Risachu

  • Posts: 1
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #104 on: Sun, 05 April 2020, 07:18:03 »
I don't understand the hate of something, that makes your life easier. Not that I hate soldering - I like it - but it is more time consuming than just clicking the switches into place. (Besides the fact that i broke diodes and even gold contacts on my first build because of desoldering). That's what's making my interest on hotswaps. As long as you don't hammer your switches into the pcb, or go in with too much force, you should be fine, I guess

Offline ddrfraser1

  • Posts: 233
  • Location: Nashville TN
  • IWHBYD
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #105 on: Sun, 05 April 2020, 07:52:10 »
For those of us who have ruined a pcb trying to desolder, look up some pcb fixes on youtube. I have saved boards by doing a manual rewire.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1209
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #106 on: Mon, 06 April 2020, 08:53:27 »
As mentioned Rama is mostly hotswap. 'nuff said. solderless electrical connections(also mentioned) have been used in industry for years for mission critical applications. All of the new supercars have "manumatic" transmissions. 'nuff said. This thread is so absurd already. don't you folks have anything better to do? I suppose the same could be said of myself but I have not even been here in two weeks. Actually participating in real life. Covid-19 and all. Mainly, who cares? If you do not like it do not buy one. Amazon has great soldered boards for $12. Right up your alley. Yes, they are mechanical. I actually found keycaps on amazon that blow away GMK For $7.99 for a set of 167 parts. They are 8MM thick! That's what is says. anyways what do I care? I like HS. I have over 70 Rama boards...…. Honestly GMK is better I have over 6,000 sets. Before you say no way you have to understand I am richer than Bezo's. In fact I own Bezo's. Let's discuss this.....

And plenty of those mission-critical solderless connections have failed. It is pretty common on older vehicles to have ghosts in the electrical systems that often narrow down to one, or more, wire harnesses that have corroded. When I replaced the windshield washer pump in my 2001 Saturn SC2, I seriously considered directly soldering the replacement in, especially since I used an off-brand pump that just came with bare wires. Ironically, in this case, it was the pump itself that had been compromised by moisture and had literally split open after years worth of rust. Cars are obviously, usually, subjected to much harsher conditions, but the point is that oxidation/corrosion is not a factor in properly-soldered electrical connections.

I'm not sure how "manumatic" transmisions factor in. It is good that they're finally getting ok fuel economy and response. I hope that they're not getting even more complex, because their reliability was already always terrible. My stick cars will always get me from A to B short of blowing the transmission up by throwing it into reverse on the highway or something. I think my only exception, in driving them exclusively (and the same one even) for the last 10-11 years, is that the shift cable broke once, so I couldn't shift the car out of 3rd gear. I could literally strip a gear out entirely and just skip it for the time being without too much trouble. My brakes went out entirely once ... on the highway. I engine braked down the off ramp and drove it home, carefully. Then I drove it 15 miles to a mechanic friend's place one night. lol

The whole point is that soldering is for people who want to do the job right once and be done, forever. I would think that most, if not all people, have at least 1 board that they're happy with and never plan to modify in the future and/or want to use it every day for years straight and not have to worry about it. There's no reason to introduce a point of failure to the equation if you don't plan on taking advantage of its benefits.

Hot swap is best for testing switches, modifications to switches, and different configurations of switches.

If people never want to learn to solder properly, or just want to be able to always have a board be in flux, for whatever reason, that's fine too.

There are just well-defined pros and cons to every approach.

P.S. I know you seem to always have problems with LEDS failing for some reason. I would have to find them again, but it does look like Aliexpress, or another retailer, sells LED hot swap sockets. They're not for SMD LEDs though.

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 85
  • Location: Acworth, GA
  • PC Cannibal
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 06 April 2020, 20:42:31 »
So far I haven't had the experience in using a hotswap pcb/board and had to work with what I have.  Also soldering and desoldering things is therapeutic to me from doing it alot as an automotive tech to now IT project lead/breakfix lead.  Really i would encourage anyone new to solder first and learn it as it is a good skill to have in the long run, also can teach one to fix their own electronics and just full send on tearing things down.

I know I plan on getting a Hotswap for another build, but that is a build for my wife since when she tried my modded Poker II she now wants me to build her a board (also surprised her and her father that I could do what I did).  Only reason why I would go hotswap for her is so I can dial in the switch she wants (she is a fan of my Ink Black and Gat Yellow combo - all are lubed). 

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1209
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #108 on: Mon, 06 April 2020, 21:43:26 »
So far I haven't had the experience in using a hotswap pcb/board and had to work with what I have.  Also soldering and desoldering things is therapeutic to me from doing it alot as an automotive tech to now IT project lead/breakfix lead.  Really i would encourage anyone new to solder first and learn it as it is a good skill to have in the long run, also can teach one to fix their own electronics and just full send on tearing things down.

I know I plan on getting a Hotswap for another build, but that is a build for my wife since when she tried my modded Poker II she now wants me to build her a board (also surprised her and her father that I could do what I did).  Only reason why I would go hotswap for her is so I can dial in the switch she wants (she is a fan of my Ink Black and Gat Yellow combo - all are lubed).

Seriously. People should do whatever they like, but I can't think of a better opportunity to learn soldering than with keyboards. The pads/legs are gigantic and spaced very far apart. It is the perfect medium, short of digging up VCRs from the 1980s or something, to play around and learn the skill. It seems like a waste to me if the opportunity isn't seized.

Maybe if she decides on a switch she really likes, you can graduate her to something soldered and relegate the hotswap board to a test bed. I have a dz60 coming if the payment ever goes through, and it survives the COVID apocalypse in China, which I'll solder the hotswap sockets into myself since nobody seems to sell a mini usb version with them (micro usb and type c suck, badly). I want to try out some switches, especially those new silent box switches, and spring and clickbar modifications.

Offline nettoxx7

  • Posts: 36
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 07 April 2020, 09:48:07 »
Hotswap is definitely a pro for people who do not have the soldering tools or experience, however it does have its cons. My struggle with them is that every time I try switching the keycaps out, I would pull the switches together, and I am afraid that someday I might wear/ damage the PCB. Some also stated that hot-swap makes the switches wobbly, crooked.

Offline Gao

  • Posts: 1
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #110 on: Wed, 13 May 2020, 22:46:36 »
It's just a hobby.
Soldering or hot-swap is solely dependent on everyone's preferences.
Don't judge others’ choices and don't force others to like the same as you do.

Offline IronCheeks

  • Posts: 36
  • Location: NYC
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #111 on: Fri, 15 May 2020, 23:01:29 »
Even though I am relatively new and have yet to have my first build in, I think hotswap has its advantages (as many people have already discussed).
As a newbie to the hobby, hotswappable keyboards offer me the benefit of trying out new switches without having to de-solder a previously completed board. Think of it as a functional tester keyboard.

Now, when I think about the other replies the disadvantages of hotswap, I want to say that I can agree with most of them:
  • No option to change layout due to permanent sockets
  • Hotswap sockets are more likely to fail sooner than soldered-in switches
  • Little available options out there on the market
  • Most quality options can cost a pretty penny
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 May 2020, 00:54:44 by IronCheeks »



Offline typo

  • Posts: 1525
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #112 on: Mon, 18 May 2020, 00:37:26 »
This still? look... If nothing else Hot swap is likely to bend the pins the first time you use it. not all it is cracked up to be. Solder is simply put much more solid. Of course that is at the mercy of whom is doing the soldering however.

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 588
  • Location: Asia
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #113 on: Mon, 18 May 2020, 04:06:28 »
This still? look... If nothing else Hot swap is likely to bend the pins the first time you use it. not all it is cracked up to be. Solder is simply put much more solid. Of course that is at the mercy of whom is doing the soldering however.

As mentioned a couple of posts above, soldering keyboard switches is about as easy as it gets. It would take some exceptional clumsiness, or some really terrible equipment, to mess up.

I'm not a skilled solderer, and have only tinkered with stuff (keyboards, DIY amps, small electronics kits) but soldering keyboards are laughably easy. Desoldering, on the other hand, I found to be an occasional pain.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1209
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Why do people hate hotswap?
« Reply #114 on: Mon, 18 May 2020, 08:12:30 »
This still? look... If nothing else Hot swap is likely to bend the pins the first time you use it. not all it is cracked up to be. Solder is simply put much more solid. Of course that is at the mercy of whom is doing the soldering however.

As mentioned a couple of posts above, soldering keyboard switches is about as easy as it gets. It would take some exceptional clumsiness, or some really terrible equipment, to mess up.

I'm not a skilled solderer, and have only tinkered with stuff (keyboards, DIY amps, small electronics kits) but soldering keyboards are laughably easy. Desoldering, on the other hand, I found to be an occasional pain.

Yup, braid and/or a hand pump/bulb are good enough for small desoldering jobs. A nice electronic pump is a real time saver for a whole board full of switches.