What do I need for building my first custom keyboard?

[lilotus]

Hello I am new to this forum and after I introduced myself I wanted to ask some question that I hope I can get an answer on.

First of all, I have never built a custom keyboard.
What do I need to build a keyboard? I know that I need switches, a pcb, case, keycaps are there any other things I would need?

And could someone help me finding all the right parts for my first build? (budget is around $170 or 150€)
I want to say some stuff before someone maybe gives me information about what parts I could get for my first build:
- I don't need RGB backlighting
- Hot swappable would be nice, but I don't think that is in the budget?
- I would love to have a numpad on it
- brown switches or any switches that feel like browns
- ISO-DE layout

My current keyboard is pretty **** and my spacebar is barely working.

P.S. I don't know that much about custom keyboards, so if I misunderstood something please correct me

[jamster]

What is it that you want out of a custom board? Most of the truely custom boards being sold in group buys here are for odd form factor reasons, or for extremely high end aesthetics, and are waaay past your budget. And have crazy long lead times.

Do you want  to do it for the experience, for specific switches, or some other reason?

You could just go for a barebones GMMK. Hotswap, available in full size, tkl and 65%. No luck on the ISO front though. That's only $70 and then you need switches and caps.

Perhaps the word 'custom' might be a point of confusion here. Do you want a unique personal statement, or are you looking for mass-produced but fitting your listed criteria. The latter is far more doable than the former for your budget. With the possible exception of ISO.

(Edited for gibberish typos)

[lilotus]

What is it that you want out of a custom board?

Do you want  to do it for the experience, for specific switches, or some other reason?

You could just go for a barebones GMMK. Hotswap, available in full size, tkl and 65%. No luck on the ISO front though. That's only $70 and then you need switches and caps.

I want a custom board for gaming and aesthetics.
Like I've said. My current keyboard is a Logitech K520, and that is pretty unusable for gaming.

The problem is, I definitly need a ISO-DE layout here in germany, because if I don't have it I cannot type some words, because special letters like Ä Ö Ü are missing.

Are ISO-DE layouts rare in custom scene?

[_rubik]

You understand the basics (caps, switches, plate, pcb, case)! The little tidbits that people often forget are stabilizers and mounting hardware (screws; they usually ship with the case).

Hotswappable pcbs are often not _too_ much more (depending on the board of course). The alternative would be to buy a soldering iron, solder, flux, etc etc.

I have to say though, custom ISO-DE keyboards are tricky. Not a lot of sets support ISO anymore; it's just a number games. That may limit your options a bit.

If you want to go custom, might I suggest buying a pre-made keyboard and iterating over time (new caps, switches etc at your own pace)? 170 is a tight budget for a fully custom build with those constraints.

Also (and this part is entirely subjective and my opinion), if you do go the fully custom route, I would _highly_ suggest exploring new switches. Browns are.... pretty bad.

[lilotus]

You understand the basics (caps, switches, plate, pcb, case)! The little tidbits that people often forget are stabilizers and mounting hardware (screws; they usually ship with the case).

Hotswappable pcbs are often not _too_ much more (depending on the board of course). The alternative would be to buy a soldering iron, solder, flux, etc etc.

I have to say though, custom ISO-DE keyboards are tricky. Not a lot of sets support ISO anymore; it's just a number games. That may limit your options a bit.

If you want to go custom, might I suggest buying a pre-made keyboard and iterating over time (new caps, switches etc at your own pace)? 170 is a tight budget for a fully custom build with those constraints.

Also (and this part is entirely subjective and my opinion), if you do go the fully custom route, I would _highly_ suggest exploring new switches. Browns are.... pretty bad.

Thank you!
What prebuilt would you recommend for upgrading over time? I wanted to get a HyperX Alloy FPS RGB or the HyperX Alloy Origins before I noticed that there is custom keyboards, would you say thats a good choice? I mean almost everything is better than my Logitech K520 that I have since almost 4 years.

What switches would you recommend other than the browns? I don't really like loud switches, because it annoys me when I play some games.
And if I want some better looking keycaps which ones would you recommend?

[jamster]

Anything is doable, it's a matter of time and money.

Agreed with the post above, browns are extremely mediocre. If you're going geek out on keyboards, there are many more options which are superior. Sounds like you want to be looking for tactile switches. Lots of those around.

Edit: just noticed your latest post. I would suggest looking beyond 'gaming' brands for keyboards unless you really want that aesthetic. You're paying a lot for the marketing and those brands are not known for the highest quality.

[lilotus]

Anything is doable, it's a matter of time and money.

Agreed with the post above, browns are extremely mediocre. If you're going geek out on keyboards, there are many more options which are superior. Sounds like you want to be looking for tactile switches. Lots of those around.

Which ones would you recommend?

And I was looking at the Ducky Shine 7 in Gunmetal grey today. Would that be a good option to start with and uprade on?

[jamster]

Just Google "tactile keyboard switches" to start with. There are so many with differences in price, degree of tactility, smoothness, noise, availability. It's impossible to recommend anything without knowing your deeper preferences and the depth of your pockets. But if you're aim is 150 fully built, and you need 100 or so switches for a board with a numpad, you're probably looking at tactile Kailh or Gaterons.

Ducky makes good solid boards.

[_rubik]

What prebuilt would you recommend for upgrading over time? I wanted to get a HyperX Alloy FPS RGB before I noticed that there is custom keyboards, would you say thats a good choice? I mean almost everything is better than my Logitech K520 that I have since almost 4 years.

Well, unless you want to get a decent soldering iron and start de-soldering boards (I'd recommend against it). I've heard great things about the Drop Ctrl and Drop Alt boards. They are a bit high in your price range, but they're solidly build, hot-swappable, and give you tons of room for customization. Another option is the Z70 by Kono (I think they're sold out atm) -- they even have ISO as well.

Take a look around https://kbdfans.com/collections/diy-kit. They have some solid options in the lower end of the price range (lower relative to the rest of the hobby).

What switches would you recommend other than the browns? I don't really like loud switches, because it annoys me when I play some games.
And if I want some better looking keycaps which ones would you recommend?

I'd personally recommend Zealios or Holy Pandas (zeitgeist switches, to say the least). They both offer good tactile feedback, smooth travel, and sound wonderful (not too loud, either). I'm sure everyone has other options/opinions as well. Less flashy options are Gaterons. If you _must_ stick with a tactile Cherry switch, try Cherry Clears

[lilotus]

Well, unless you want to get a decent soldering iron and start de-soldering boards (I'd recommend against it). I've heard great things about the Drop Ctrl and Drop Alt boards. They are a bit high in your price range, but they're solidly build, hot-swappable, and give you tons of room for customization. Another option is the Z70 by Kono (I think they're sold out atm) -- they even have ISO as well.

The Drop Crtl is sold out atm, the drop alt is not sold out. The Kono Z70 is sold out too. I think the Drop Alt looks good.

I'd personally recommend Zealios or Holy Pandas (zeitgeist switches, to say the least). They both offer good tactile feedback, smooth travel, and sound wonderful (not too loud, either). I'm sure everyone has other options/opinions as well. Less flashy options are Gaterons. If you _must_ stick with a tactile Cherry switch, try Cherry Clears

Is it possible to use any switches on any PCB? And what do you think of the HyperX keyboard I have mentioned in a different reply, the Alloy FPS RGB and Alloy Origins or the Logitech Pro X or maybe even the Razer Huntsman Tournament Edition?

[jamster]

Keychron K4 over the Razer if you want optical switches.

Razer- badly overpriced total garbage for people who don't know any better. That's a $180 board, and at that price you can be looking at rock solid, quality brands like Filco. You're almost moving into Realforce price ranges. Not that I'd recommend Realforce in this situation, but they are made in Japan and incredibly high quality.

Razer is the poster child for peripherals to avoid. But throw LEDs on them, and think up slick marketing names. Like Terminator Ultra Edition, and people will flock to them.

[lilotus]

Keychron K4 over the Razer if you want optical switches.

Razer- badly overpriced total garbage for people who don't know any better. That's a $180 board, and at that price you can be looking at Rock solid, quality brands like Filco.

In germany the Razer Huntsman TE costs 123€ that is about $150.

[jamster]

Which still makes them twice as expensive as they should be.

Look around on this forum a bit more. It's full of people who collect and obsess about boards, who have built or heavily modded their own, in some cases for decades.

Look for recommendations for Razer or HyperX. You will find close to zero, for good reason.

Maybe a beer analogy. This would be like walking into beer festival in Germany, and asking for Budweiser (but in this case, the Budweiser would cost five times what it usually does).

[lilotus]

Which still makes them twice as expensive as they should be.

Look around on this forum a bit more. It's full of people who collect and obsess about boards, who have built or heavily modded their own, in some cases for decades.

Look for recommendations for Razer or HyperX. You will find close to zero, for good reason.

That Filco you have talked about, where can I get that at?

[jamster]

I don't think he carries Filco, but it might be worth getting in touch with candykeys.com. He's in Germany. Carries quality brands.

[lilotus]

I don't think he carries Filco, but it might be worth getting in touch with candykeys.com. He's in Germany. Carries quality brands.

They are in germany? Do they have ISO layouts do you know that?

[lilotus]

I like this one. What do you think about it? I mean it has no numpad but that shouldn't be a problem, I might have to switch to password for my pc again but thats okay.

https://candykeys.com/product/va88m-grey-a-black-de

what bothers me about all the ISO-DE keyboards that are on candykeys is that they are all soooo small, I have big hands.

[lilotus]

I don't think he carries Filco, but it might be worth getting in touch with candykeys.com. He's in Germany. Carries quality brands.

They are in germany? Do they have ISO layouts do you know that?

I found a site that sells Filco but literally every single one is out of stock.

[Leslieann]

Couple things:
If finding a layout is difficult, it's going to be even more difficult in a hot swap as hot swap locks in key layout.

Soldering irons, contrary to what's been said here, you DO NOT need an expensive iron. Soldering switches is one of the easiest and best ways to get started in soldering and it can be done with a dollar store iron. If it can get hot enough to melt solder it can probably solder a switch. You don't need a $100 iron to do switches.

As others have pointed out, your budget is really not going to work well really for a custom. Filco is very hit or miss on inventory, kind of odd, you may want to check on Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid as it's pretty much identical to the Filco. Varmillo is a very good brand, if you like the VA-88m, go for it, it's a good board. Also check Amazon.

[jamster]

https://www.keychron.com/collections/keychron-iso-keyboard-collection/products/keychron-k2-wireless-mechanical-keyboard-german-iso-de-layout

[lilotus]

What is the min. budget I should have to build a custom keyboard?

[_rubik]

What is the min. budget I should have to build a custom keyboard?

It all depends on what you're interested in.

 - If you care about having gorgeous keycaps, that can cost you anywhere from 100 - 300 on the caps alone (excluding artisans).
 - If you care about the switches, that might cost you (ballpark, depending on board size and switch) 60 - 150.
 - The upper tier of cases starts at 400, but you can find cheaper cases for sub-100.
 - If you just want to solder some stuff together, you could get away with something much cheaper.

Custom keyboards (to me) means options. For every top-tier part, there are budget alternatives. The trouble (and what I see you facing now) is optimizing budget and personal taste.

I would say, for a fully custom keyboard, 200-250 is a good place to start. Of course, you might be able to pull something together for less if you're open to cutting corners.

Again, it's all relative. Maybe check out reputable sellers on /r/mechmarket as well?

[lilotus]

I care about the feeling when I am gaming or typing.
Obviously it shouldn't look like a piece or dirt I found on the street, but it doesn't have to have the most colorful or flashing keycaps, because a more suddle design would fit better in my setup.
And I want it to last for a bit.

[_rubik]

In that case, you should put your money towards switches, and maybe caps. Just about everything contributes to "feel" (brass vs alu vs steel plates, case rigidity, etc), but IMO switches contribute the most. I could argue that caps contribute to feel just as much because that's what you're actually touching.

Browse the subreddit and this forum, and pay special attention to what switches people are using. You're looking for something tactile and probably 45 - 65g in weight. Look into ABS vs PBT keycaps as well.

Also, word for the wise, don't differentiate "gaming" too much from normal use. In the end of the day, gaming is still typing. Again, these are all my opinions, and some folks might disagree.

[lilotus]

In that case, you should put your money towards switches, and maybe caps. Just about everything contributes to "feel" (brass vs alu vs steel plates, case rigidity, etc), but IMO switches contribute the most. I could argue that caps contribute to feel just as much because that's what you're actually touching.

Browse the subreddit and this forum, and pay special attention to what switches people are using. You're looking for something tactile and probably 45 - 65g in weight. Look into ABS vs PBT keycaps as well.

Also, word for the wise, don't differentiate "gaming" too much from normal use. In the end of the day, gaming is still typing. Again, these are all my opinions, and some folks might disagree.

Thanks for the help! I am currently really liking the look of the KBDFans Tofu, but I definitly gotta test some switches soon.