Author Topic: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海 - Retooled Legends  (Read 50353 times)

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Offline grundlemere

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  • Location: Washington, DC
[IC] GMK Houhai 后海 - Retooled Legends
« on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:46:11 »
    GMK Houhai 后海

    A sense memory of misspent Beijing nights

    Coming June 2021 from vendors around the world



    In the heart of Beijing, tucked behind the Forbidden City thronged with tourists, and the party compound heavily guarded, there is a small lake. At night this lake comes alive with neon lights piercing the city haze, advertising every pleasure under heaven, plied by pedal boats in the summer and speed skaters in the winter, redolent with the sights, sounds, and smells of the city. They call it Houhai (pron. HOH-high): 后海.  In this place, a photo negative of Pleasure Island, the ancient, the modern, and the futuristic live side by side.

    GMK Houhai is an ancient-futurist keycap set design inspired by the sights of the Chinese capital at night, and will be the first GMK set produced with full Chinese character legends. Rendered in custom RAL colors, GMK Houhai (pron. HOH-high) evokes the Beijing night sky in a warm, hazy grey, with alpha legends in the fluorescent red of the Chinese city sidewalk reflecting neons after a rain, and modifiers in shades of cobalt, aqua, jade, gold, and clean white that can be found in both the ornate woodwork of historic sites and in the kaleidoscope of city lights.

    The GMK Houhai set legends are based around the Cangjie (仓颉) typing system, first among many methods of typing in Chinese using Chinese characters. The set is fully functional for Cangjie typists, as well as Pinyin and Latin character users.



    November 21 update: Retooled legends

    After submitting the original renders and legends to GMK for the predecessor set Shanshui, we were expecting some notes on necessary adjustments to meet their mold tooling specs, but were told, basically, try again. I've spent the last couple of weeks completely overhauling the legends to meet the specs: adding cutaways to minute interior spaces, broadening strokes, narrowing and straightening negative space, rounding corners, and in a few cases, simplifying elements altogether.

    This represents my best efforts to adhere to the integrity of the written Chinese language and to create a consistent typography that will serve not only this set but all sets that will use these legends to come. These legends are essentially as detailed as GMK's machining will allow while maintaining consistent character size with conventional mod and alpha legend sizing. I hope you are as pleased with how they've turned out as I am, and most of all, I'm looking forward to seeing them in the next round of NathanAlphaMan's kit renders, to come after the completion of the GMK Shanshui GB at the end of January. Special thanks to A.Jakkkke for his final review of the character forms and his extremely helpful suggestions.



    Here's a link to download a full-size image and view all the detail


    [/list]Complete the IC form to make this set a reality
    See a full gallery of board renders

    Follow me on IG @grundlemere for photos and project updates, and feel free to reach out on Discord at grundlemere#1126 with questions or to say hello.

    Vendors

    US: Cannonkeys
    China: Zfrontier
    SE Asia: iLumkb
    Europe: CandyKeys
    Australia: Daily Clack
    Canada: Deskhero.ca
    UK (non-EU): Prototypist.net

    Why make a Chinese set?[color]Written Chinese is just as rich and beautiful as Hangul, Hiragana, and Arabic, and infinitely more complex. These other scripts have keysets devoted to them, but because most Chinese users type in pinyin using Latin character keys, the design just hasn't come up often. I believe it's high time there's one available in Chinese. I chose a single typing system, called Cangjie, to keep the look simple and clean. Cangjie uses full, beautiful Chinese characters, unlike the more well-known Zhuyin system that uses Bopomofo "letters" styled to look like Chinese characters. Cangjie is the most famous non-pinyin typing system taught in mainland China, and is named for the legendary scholar who invented the Chinese writing system.

    China is a country where virtually all of our PCBs, switch parts, and cases are manufactured and, in many cases, designed. It's where a growing share of both the consumer base and the creative and engineering talent behind the hobby exist, and it simply hasn't gotten the cultural recognition I feel it deserves. While GMK Houhai is based on a very specific place and my memories of my time spent in Beijing, I hope the chosen imagery will resonate with both users everywhere in China and the people who have spent time there, and will prove beautiful and fun even for those who haven't.

    Tell me about the kits!

    In the base kit, Latin legends and Cangjie Chinese sublegends, while the num row displays Chinese numeral sublegends, all rendered in brilliant fluorescent red on hazy grey. The numpad features complex financial characters used on money and in transaction records to prevent forgery. We are currently exploring base and modifier kit options to reduce cost, and we invite your feedback. Full Chinese translations in simplified characters with icons in keeping with the theme? A modern look with full icons? Tell us what you prefer. We expect to offer a classic English text + icon mods as well.Perhaps most eye-catching, the other kits offered include clean Cangjie monolegend alphas + Chinese character arrow sets to complete the look, and a novelty kit I hope will knock your socks off. Novelties are rendered in all seven kit colors, with the famous sights, legendary bites, urban transit highlights of the Chinese capital...plus a ghost story.

    Tell me which base kit option you prefer!

    大陆 Mainland Kit (base)Option 1: modern icon mods w/o numpad (lowest cost)


    Option 2: simplified Chinese mods w/o numpad (middle cost)


    Option 3: original kit w/ Chinese mods + numpad (highest cost)


    小吃 Xiaochi Kit (novelties)


    (Icon sets collab with my sister, Maho, an artist and musician who lives down the street from me here in Washington, D.C. Maho has done plenty of album cover and poster art in the music world, and now brings her talents doing art for the mechanical keyboard community. She expects to release new deskmat and banderole art soon.)

    仓颉 Cangjie Kit (Cangjie Chinese character monolegend alphas + character arrows)


    Lost Translations Kit (icon mods, if not included in base)


    Stroke Order Kit (Simplified Chinese mods, if not included in base)


    老外 Foreigner Kit (English text + icon mods)


    Market Reforms Kit (Numpad w/ all mod styles, if not included in base)


    泰科诺 Taikonaut Kit (spacebars)


    So...which base kit option do you want?
    See a full gallery of kit renders

    Why GMK?

    Certainly these sets are prized, prestigious, and the gold standard for custom group buy keycap sets. It's also true that they're the most expensive and take the longest to fulfill, especially right now. But after seeing the great work of Energieschleuder on GMK Masterpiece, with its gorgeous katakana monolegends, I felt that this kit could leave an important legacy of a great set of Chinese-language molds behind for all the other designers who wanted to use them, and I wanted to be the one who designs the legends in the modern direction I'd like to see for future Cangjie kits. Not every kit needs to be GMK. This one does, and I believe it will be worth both the cost and the wait, and will add a beautiful tool to the kit for all those who come after.

    Expect this kit to end up on the high end of GMK set pricing due to the custom color matching and many new molds. That said, Nathanalphaman and I worked very hard to include a lot of nonstandard mods in these kits to ensure that the widest possible number of users can purchase kits because they like the look of them, not because they have to purchase them to cover their boards. This is an extremely complex set with a lot of effort put in and very deliberate design choices, and I hope you will choose to invest in it because you love it as much as I do.

    I may need to rework kits after getting a quote from GMK, but I'm hopeful it won't come to that with a good IC response and a large MOQ. You can do your part to make this set happen as is by filling out the IC form and supporting the GMK Houhai kits you want.

    Collaborations

    Luxe Cables for a custom aviator cable
    Digital Carpentry for custom branded rare wood wrist rests
    Gothcaps for a collab artisan keycap
    JustAnotherKeymaker for a collab artisan keycap (new sculpt!)
    Brewcaps for a collab artisan
    ILumKB for apparel
    More to come!

    Acknowledgments

    NathanAlphaMan for the incredible collaborative partnership, the gorgeous renders, and the critical design feedback early in the process
    Exclusive for the the cultural translation help and the permission to use his beautiful e8.5 in our renders (can't wait for mine!)
    My sister, Maho, for putting up with my management style and still turning out such great work and taking my calls Phatty, MoesToaster,Alex, Louis, and Jerrolds for their immediate passion for this project and being the best hypemen
    Nero and the Matrix Labs team for talking me out of a bad decision
    darkfire1664for being my first partner and my biggest sounding board through all of this
    energieschleuder for convincing me this could really happen
    The people of Beijing for opening my eyes to what is possible


    Thanks for reading this far and thank you for your feedback.

    Show your support for GMK Houhai with this sig banner!

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    [url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107034.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/1UFZRqC.jpg[/img][/url]
    « Last Edit: Sat, 21 November 2020, 12:41:43 by grundlemere »

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #1 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:46:51 »
    Reserved

    Offline jackzyg

    • Posts: 23
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #2 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:47:09 »
    First!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Offline jackzyg

    • Posts: 23
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #3 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:47:53 »
    Finally!!!! Been waiting for this!!!! Good luck man!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Offline Solotov

    • Posts: 362
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #4 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:50:05 »
    Can't miss this  ;D
    Flex is love, flex is life.

    Offline DukeEsquire

    • Posts: 447
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #5 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:54:08 »
    I’m in for sure.

    Any idea on pricing given the large number of custom molds you’ll need?

    I am not 100% sold on the colorway—reminds me of metropolis—but I will support the project in hopes we can get a WoB or BoW set next.

    Offline baksbaks

    • Posts: 13
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #6 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:57:48 »
    This is a very well developed set with a rich backstory. Thanks for putting this on the map for next year; will be waiting to pick it up.

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #7 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:57:55 »
    Finally!!!! Been waiting for this!!!! Good luck man!


    Thanks, Jack! Been great talking to you on IG!

    Offline Capsy

    • Posts: 293
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #8 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:58:35 »
    Thoroughly enjoyed reading through your OP. Nice IC. Need to see more renders to be sold on the colors but looks good for now

    Offline yoot

    • Posts: 178
    • Location: US
      • none
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #9 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:59:33 »
    Damn it's still 2020 and the best set of 2021 has already been shown

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #10 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:59:40 »
    I’m in for sure.

    Any idea on pricing given the large number of custom molds you’ll need?

    I am not 100% sold on the colorway—reminds me of metropolis—but I will support the project in hopes we can get a WoB or BoW set next.

    Hope to have some more ballpark pricing info over the weekend. Lead vendor's been under the weather, but hopefully we'll talk soon and will let you know.

    WoB is already looking like it will happen if this one runs. Renders of that kit look AWESOME.

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #11 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:01:20 »
    Thoroughly enjoyed reading through your OP. Nice IC. Need to see more renders to be sold on the colors but looks good for now

    Thank you! I'll post some photos of physical RAL samples in different light situations today or tomorrow but wanted to get this up. The alpha legend red is a RAL fluorescent, UV-reactive color. VERY high contrast.

    Ope, renders link: https://imgur.com/gallery/FKXHbSz

    Offline Auracity

    • Posts: 11
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #12 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:03:13 »
    Big fan

    Offline ilouis_07

    • Posts: 651
    • Location: Singapore, China
    • Never Forget Your Origin
      • ILUMKB
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #13 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:05:02 »
    I love those novelties!!!

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #14 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:09:58 »
    I love those novelties!!!

    Those novelties love you!

    Offline harlekein

    • Posts: 387
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #15 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:12:42 »
    Please consider making the Cangjie Kit a full alphas kit. That way they can be combined with any of the mod kits, and in my case, I can use them for ortho layout with the novelties.

    Offline nxxinf

    • Posts: 6
    • Location: China
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #16 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:23:53 »
    The novelties look great! Definitely gonna buy them. One thing I am a bit worried about is the contrast between red and black on alphas. Could you provide more renders in the future to show this?

    Offline devils-door-bell

    • Posts: 3
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #17 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:27:51 »
    Gorgeous!

    Offline nxxinf

    • Posts: 6
    • Location: China
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #18 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:31:58 »
    Also I think a kit of light alphas (red + white/light grey) will look dope with the colorful mods and novelties  :cool:

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #19 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:38:28 »
    [Yeeto deleto]
    « Last Edit: Fri, 23 October 2020, 08:52:13 by grundlemere »

    Offline cowsareverywhere

    • Posts: 3
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #20 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:47:43 »
    This looks uh expensive! I am all in.

    Offline botallu

    • Posts: 75
    • Location: Hong Kong
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #21 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 09:58:04 »
    mixed feeling about this set
    Nice combinations of colours, very versatile base kit and good child kits. The Kits will be very expensive to do in GMK because all the new molds.
    Very nice indeed, but there are so many parts of this I don't understand.

    First- the Simplified Chinese in the base kit. Cangjie/倉頡 was invented as a Traditional Chineseinput method at first, the way it works is by chopping the chinese letter into different parts, a really simple example is the word"明", it splits into "日" and "月", -A and B on your keyboard. Simplified Chinese can't do this for more complicated words because the, well, "simplified letters".
    Simplified Chinese compatibility wasn't even added before 1987. Using simplified chinese in the mods is kinda ironic (or rather insulting imo), I would switch to Traditional Chinese if you really mean to theme this after the cangjie input method .

    Second- the cangjie radicals monolegend kit, Cangjie input method, fyi, DOESN'T use the num row at all, really feels weird to me that you included the monolegend numbers row in the kit
    BUT I guess it keeps the alphas cleaner with one type of legends, so whatever.

    Third- the traditional chinese numerals in the numpad. If you are using simplified chinese in the mods, use the modernised chinese numerials instead(零一二三四五六七八九).
    If you wis to use the traditional chinese numerals, the legend for 6 is 陸, not 柳 (unless its some regional difference mumbo jumbo in beijing or whatever"
    上下左右 and 東南西北 are also not really necessary but to add more cost to the kit, arrows are fine (to me)

    Lastly, the naming of the spacebar kit, just name it the "taiko kit" if you want to add the Shenzhou spaceship reference

    Cangjie is also invented in Taiwan by a Taiwanese at the time so I feel really weird about the novelites kit

    and fyi cangjie is REALLYYYYYY rarely used in China(and they don't teach it in school), people in Hong Kong-like me and Taiwan uses it more often than the people in china which usully sticks with piniy, ignore me if you count HK and TW as China, don't wanna make this post into some political ****show
    « Last Edit: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:08:28 by botallu »

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #22 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:00:51 »
    Damn it's still 2020 and the best set of 2021 has already been shown

    Wow that is a huge compliment! I can't wait to see what else comes out next year. (Mostly I just can't wait for this year to be over!)

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #23 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:10:31 »
    mixed feeling about this set
    Nice combinations of colours, very versatile base kit and good child kits. The Kits will be very expensive to do in GMK because all the new molds.
    Very nice indeed, but there are so many parts of this I don't understand.

    First- the Simplified Chinese in the base kit. Cangjie/倉頡 was invented as a Traditional Chineseinput method at first, the way it works is by chopping the chinese letter into different parts, a really simple example is the word"明", it splits into "日" and "月", -A and B on your keyboard. Simplified Chinese can't do this for more complicated words because the, well, "simplified letters".
    Simplified Chinese compatibility wasn't even added before 1987. Using simplified chinese in the mods is kinda ironic (or rather insulting imo), I would switch to Traditional Chinese if you really mean to theme this after the cangjie input method .

    Second- the cangjie radicals monolegend kit, Cangjie input method, fyi, DOESN'T use the num row at all, really feels weird to me that you included the monolegend numbers row in the kit
    BUT I guess it keeps the alphas cleaner with one type of legends, so whatever.

    Third- the traditional chinese numerals in the numpad. If you are using simplified chinese in the mods, use the modernised chinese numerials instead(零一二三四五六七八九).
    If you wis to use the traditional chinese numerals, the legend for 6 is 陸, not 柳 (unless its some regional difference mumbo jumbo in beijing or whatever"
    上下左右 and 東南西北 are also not really necessary but to add more cost to the kit, arrows are fine (to me)

    Lastly, the naming of the spacebar kit, just name it the "taiko kit" if you want to add the Shenzhou spaceship reference

    Cangjie is also invented in Taiwan by a Taiwanese at the time so I feel really weird about the novelites kit

    and fyi cangjie is REALLYYYYYY rarely used in China(and they don't teach it in school), people in Hong Kong-like me and Taiwan uses it more often than the people in china which usully sticks with piniy, ignore me if you count HK and TW as China, don't wanna make this post into some political ****show

    That's all really good feedback and I will be thinking about what you've said. For the most part, we expect sales to be higher in mainland China which is why we used simplified characters for mods. (Also, I can't read traditional characters very well!) The Chinese mods are not intended to be Cangjie, because Cangjie only applies to alphas. Finally, please understand that the reason we've included a lot of Chinese characters on areas like numerals for example is because the western audience thinks they look cool. The numbers aren't really supposed to be part of the Cangjie system as much as they are a decoration. Thanks for the catch on the 陸 legend. That was simply a mistake and I'm not sure how that happened. We will fix it!

    Feel free to reach me on discord or IG to talk about any other thoughts you have.

    Offline nxxinf

    • Posts: 6
    • Location: China
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #24 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:10:52 »
    mixed feeling about this set
    Nice combinations of colours, very versatile base kit and good child kits. The Kits will be very expensive to do in GMK because all the new molds.
    Very nice indeed, but there are so many parts of this I don't understand.

    First- the Simplified Chinese in the base kit. Cangjie/倉頡 was invented as a Traditional Chineseinput method at first, the way it works is by chopping the chinese letter into different parts, a really simple example is the word"明", it splits into "日" and "月", -A and B on your keyboard. Simplified Chinese can't do this for more complicated words because the, well, "simplified letters".
    Simplified Chinese compatibility wasn't even added before 1987. Using simplified chinese in the mods is kinda ironic (or rather insulting imo), I would switch to Traditional Chinese if you really mean to theme this after the cangjie input method .

    Second- the cangjie radicals monolegend kit, Cangjie input method, fyi, DOESN'T use the num row at all, really feels weird to me that you included the monolegend numbers row in the kit
    BUT I guess it keeps the alphas cleaner with one type of legends, so whatever.

    Third- the traditional chinese numerals in the numpad. If you are using simplified chinese in the mods, use the modernised chinese numerials instead(零一二三四五六七八九).
    If you wis to use the traditional chinese numerals, the legend for 6 is 陸, not 柳 (unless its some regional difference mumbo jumbo in beijing or whatever"
    上下左右 and 東南西北 are also not really necessary but to add more cost to the kit, arrows are fine (to me)

    Lastly, the naming of the spacebar kit, just name it the "taiko kit" if you want to add the Shenzhou spaceship reference

    Cangjie is also invented in Taiwan by a Taiwanese at the time so I feel really weird about the novelites kit

    and fyi cangjie is REALLYYYYYY rarely used in China(and they don't teach it in school), people in Hong Kong-like me and Taiwan uses it more often than the people in china which usully sticks with piniy, ignore me if you count HK and TW as China, don't wanna make this post into some political ****show

    For your first point, I think even though Cangjie is more widely used in Taiwan & HK, there is nothing weird about using Simplified Chinese to better capture the culture & vibe in Houhai, Beijing. And I don't know why it is "insulting" to you.

    Again, hope no one turns this into a political debate on the complex Mainland-Taiwan-HK issues looool. Love the set :thumb:

    Offline senryo

    • Posts: 311
    • Location: Hong Kong
    • Problems are challenges.
      • Thic Thock
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #25 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:17:18 »
    mixed feeling about this set
    Nice combinations of colours, very versatile base kit and good child kits. The Kits will be very expensive to do in GMK because all the new molds.
    Very nice indeed, but there are so many parts of this I don't understand.

    First- the Simplified Chinese in the base kit. Cangjie/倉頡 was invented as a Traditional Chineseinput method at first, the way it works is by chopping the chinese letter into different parts, a really simple example is the word"明", it splits into "日" and "月", -A and B on your keyboard. Simplified Chinese can't do this for more complicated words because the, well, "simplified letters".
    Simplified Chinese compatibility wasn't even added before 1987. Using simplified chinese in the mods is kinda ironic (or rather insulting imo), I would switch to Traditional Chinese if you really mean to theme this after the cangjie input method .

    Second- the cangjie radicals monolegend kit, Cangjie input method, fyi, DOESN'T use the num row at all, really feels weird to me that you included the monolegend numbers row in the kit
    BUT I guess it keeps the alphas cleaner with one type of legends, so whatever.

    Third- the traditional chinese numerals in the numpad. If you are using simplified chinese in the mods, use the modernised chinese numerials instead(零一二三四五六七八九).
    If you wis to use the traditional chinese numerals, the legend for 6 is 陸, not 柳 (unless its some regional difference mumbo jumbo in beijing or whatever"
    上下左右 and 東南西北 are also not really necessary but to add more cost to the kit, arrows are fine (to me)

    Lastly, the naming of the spacebar kit, just name it the "taiko kit" if you want to add the Shenzhou spaceship reference

    Cangjie is also invented in Taiwan by a Taiwanese at the time so I feel really weird about the novelites kit

    and fyi cangjie is REALLYYYYYY rarely used in China(and they don't teach it in school), people in Hong Kong-like me and Taiwan uses it more often than the people in china which usully sticks with piniy, ignore me if you count HK and TW as China, don't wanna make this post into some political ****show

    For your first point, I think even though Cangjie is more widely used in Taiwan & HK, there is nothing weird about using Simplified Chinese to better capture the culture & vibe in Houhai, Beijing. And I don't know why it is "insulting" to you.

    Again, hope no one turns this into a political debate on the complex Mainland-Taiwan-HK issues looool. Love the set :thumb:

    Because from a linguistic perspective, Simplified Chinese(SC) is a cultural backward of Traditional Chinese(TC); it gutted a lot of Chinese cultural characteristics for easing the illiteracy rate in China.

    Cangjie was made under the foundation of TC and binding it tgt with SC isn't really that appropriate in a cultural context.
    « Last Edit: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:18:52 by senryo »

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #26 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:21:59 »
    This looks uh expensive! I am all in.

    That's the spirit!

    Offline nxxinf

    • Posts: 6
    • Location: China
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #27 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:23:40 »
    mixed feeling about this set
    Nice combinations of colours, very versatile base kit and good child kits. The Kits will be very expensive to do in GMK because all the new molds.
    Very nice indeed, but there are so many parts of this I don't understand.

    First- the Simplified Chinese in the base kit. Cangjie/倉頡 was invented as a Traditional Chineseinput method at first, the way it works is by chopping the chinese letter into different parts, a really simple example is the word"明", it splits into "日" and "月", -A and B on your keyboard. Simplified Chinese can't do this for more complicated words because the, well, "simplified letters".
    Simplified Chinese compatibility wasn't even added before 1987. Using simplified chinese in the mods is kinda ironic (or rather insulting imo), I would switch to Traditional Chinese if you really mean to theme this after the cangjie input method .

    Second- the cangjie radicals monolegend kit, Cangjie input method, fyi, DOESN'T use the num row at all, really feels weird to me that you included the monolegend numbers row in the kit
    BUT I guess it keeps the alphas cleaner with one type of legends, so whatever.

    Third- the traditional chinese numerals in the numpad. If you are using simplified chinese in the mods, use the modernised chinese numerials instead(零一二三四五六七八九).
    If you wis to use the traditional chinese numerals, the legend for 6 is 陸, not 柳 (unless its some regional difference mumbo jumbo in beijing or whatever"
    上下左右 and 東南西北 are also not really necessary but to add more cost to the kit, arrows are fine (to me)

    Lastly, the naming of the spacebar kit, just name it the "taiko kit" if you want to add the Shenzhou spaceship reference

    Cangjie is also invented in Taiwan by a Taiwanese at the time so I feel really weird about the novelites kit

    and fyi cangjie is REALLYYYYYY rarely used in China(and they don't teach it in school), people in Hong Kong-like me and Taiwan uses it more often than the people in china which usully sticks with piniy, ignore me if you count HK and TW as China, don't wanna make this post into some political ****show

    For your first point, I think even though Cangjie is more widely used in Taiwan & HK, there is nothing weird about using Simplified Chinese to better capture the culture & vibe in Houhai, Beijing. And I don't know why it is "insulting" to you.

    Again, hope no one turns this into a political debate on the complex Mainland-Taiwan-HK issues looool. Love the set :thumb:

    Because from a linguistic perspective, Simplified Chinese(SC) is a backwards of Traditional Chinese(TC); it gutted a lot of Chinese cultural characteristics for easing the illiteracy rate in China.

    Cangjie was made under the foundation of TC and binding it tgt with SC isn't really that appropriate in a cultural context.

    Yeah Simplified Chinese is indeed a simplified version but also the one people in Beijing use (not trying to argue which one is superior).

    The set is named Houhai instead of Cangjie. If the set is called "GMK Cangjie" I would also vote for using Traditional Chinese.

    Offline Geeky_A

    • Posts: 1
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #28 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:24:45 »
    Simplified Chinese sucks, no offense  ^-^

    Offline vocal118

    • Posts: 25
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #29 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:25:43 »
    丑就一个字

    Offline botallu

    • Posts: 75
    • Location: Hong Kong
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #30 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:26:07 »
    That's all really good feedback and I will be thinking about what you've said. For the most part, we expect sales to be higher in mainland China which is why we used simplified characters for mods. (Also, I can't read traditional characters very well!) The Chinese mods are not intended to be Cangjie, because Cangjie only applies to alphas. Finally, please understand that the reason we've included a lot of Chinese characters on areas like numerals for example is because the western audience thinks they look cool. The numbers aren't really supposed to be part of the Cangjie system as much as they are a decoration. Thanks for the catch on the 陸 legend. That was simply a mistake and I'm not sure how that happened. We will fix it!

    Feel free to reach me on discord or IG to talk about any other thoughts you have.

    I don't think the simplified/traditional mods will make a big difference in sales numbers, just my 2 cents.
    Maybe you can also use the traditional chinese numerals in the num row in base kit and the alpha child kit? just to keep the legends more consistent.
    Besides these I don't really have more questions on the set other than the price, there are A LOT of new molds needed for making the kits.

    Offline senryo

    • Posts: 311
    • Location: Hong Kong
    • Problems are challenges.
      • Thic Thock
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #31 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:32:20 »
    mixed feeling about this set
    Nice combinations of colours, very versatile base kit and good child kits. The Kits will be very expensive to do in GMK because all the new molds.
    Very nice indeed, but there are so many parts of this I don't understand.

    First- the Simplified Chinese in the base kit. Cangjie/倉頡 was invented as a Traditional Chineseinput method at first, the way it works is by chopping the chinese letter into different parts, a really simple example is the word"明", it splits into "日" and "月", -A and B on your keyboard. Simplified Chinese can't do this for more complicated words because the, well, "simplified letters".
    Simplified Chinese compatibility wasn't even added before 1987. Using simplified chinese in the mods is kinda ironic (or rather insulting imo), I would switch to Traditional Chinese if you really mean to theme this after the cangjie input method .

    Second- the cangjie radicals monolegend kit, Cangjie input method, fyi, DOESN'T use the num row at all, really feels weird to me that you included the monolegend numbers row in the kit
    BUT I guess it keeps the alphas cleaner with one type of legends, so whatever.

    Third- the traditional chinese numerals in the numpad. If you are using simplified chinese in the mods, use the modernised chinese numerials instead(零一二三四五六七八九).
    If you wis to use the traditional chinese numerals, the legend for 6 is 陸, not 柳 (unless its some regional difference mumbo jumbo in beijing or whatever"
    上下左右 and 東南西北 are also not really necessary but to add more cost to the kit, arrows are fine (to me)

    Lastly, the naming of the spacebar kit, just name it the "taiko kit" if you want to add the Shenzhou spaceship reference

    Cangjie is also invented in Taiwan by a Taiwanese at the time so I feel really weird about the novelites kit

    and fyi cangjie is REALLYYYYYY rarely used in China(and they don't teach it in school), people in Hong Kong-like me and Taiwan uses it more often than the people in china which usully sticks with piniy, ignore me if you count HK and TW as China, don't wanna make this post into some political ****show

    For your first point, I think even though Cangjie is more widely used in Taiwan & HK, there is nothing weird about using Simplified Chinese to better capture the culture & vibe in Houhai, Beijing. And I don't know why it is "insulting" to you.

    Again, hope no one turns this into a political debate on the complex Mainland-Taiwan-HK issues looool. Love the set :thumb:

    Because from a linguistic perspective, Simplified Chinese(SC) is a backwards of Traditional Chinese(TC); it gutted a lot of Chinese cultural characteristics for easing the illiteracy rate in China.

    Cangjie was made under the foundation of TC and binding it tgt with SC isn't really that appropriate in a cultural context.

    Yeah Simplified Chinese is indeed a simplified version but also the one people in Beijing use (not trying to argue which one is superior).

    The set is named Houhai instead of Cangjie. If the set is called "GMK Cangjie" I would also vote for using Traditional Chinese.

    Personally I don't really mind if the runner chooses SC or TC, but if the runner wants to incorporate cultural context into the theme, I'd suggest him do it properly.

    And you were asking why it was insulting to accompany SC with Cangjie, I was just answering that question, theres nothing to do with whether SC is more widely used or not.

    Offline nxxinf

    • Posts: 6
    • Location: China
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #32 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:43:16 »
    mixed feeling about this set
    Nice combinations of colours, very versatile base kit and good child kits. The Kits will be very expensive to do in GMK because all the new molds.
    Very nice indeed, but there are so many parts of this I don't understand.

    First- the Simplified Chinese in the base kit. Cangjie/倉頡 was invented as a Traditional Chineseinput method at first, the way it works is by chopping the chinese letter into different parts, a really simple example is the word"明", it splits into "日" and "月", -A and B on your keyboard. Simplified Chinese can't do this for more complicated words because the, well, "simplified letters".
    Simplified Chinese compatibility wasn't even added before 1987. Using simplified chinese in the mods is kinda ironic (or rather insulting imo), I would switch to Traditional Chinese if you really mean to theme this after the cangjie input method .

    Second- the cangjie radicals monolegend kit, Cangjie input method, fyi, DOESN'T use the num row at all, really feels weird to me that you included the monolegend numbers row in the kit
    BUT I guess it keeps the alphas cleaner with one type of legends, so whatever.

    Third- the traditional chinese numerals in the numpad. If you are using simplified chinese in the mods, use the modernised chinese numerials instead(零一二三四五六七八九).
    If you wis to use the traditional chinese numerals, the legend for 6 is 陸, not 柳 (unless its some regional difference mumbo jumbo in beijing or whatever"
    上下左右 and 東南西北 are also not really necessary but to add more cost to the kit, arrows are fine (to me)

    Lastly, the naming of the spacebar kit, just name it the "taiko kit" if you want to add the Shenzhou spaceship reference

    Cangjie is also invented in Taiwan by a Taiwanese at the time so I feel really weird about the novelites kit

    and fyi cangjie is REALLYYYYYY rarely used in China(and they don't teach it in school), people in Hong Kong-like me and Taiwan uses it more often than the people in china which usully sticks with piniy, ignore me if you count HK and TW as China, don't wanna make this post into some political ****show

    For your first point, I think even though Cangjie is more widely used in Taiwan & HK, there is nothing weird about using Simplified Chinese to better capture the culture & vibe in Houhai, Beijing. And I don't know why it is "insulting" to you.

    Again, hope no one turns this into a political debate on the complex Mainland-Taiwan-HK issues looool. Love the set :thumb:

    Because from a linguistic perspective, Simplified Chinese(SC) is a backwards of Traditional Chinese(TC); it gutted a lot of Chinese cultural characteristics for easing the illiteracy rate in China.

    Cangjie was made under the foundation of TC and binding it tgt with SC isn't really that appropriate in a cultural context.

    Yeah Simplified Chinese is indeed a simplified version but also the one people in Beijing use (not trying to argue which one is superior).

    The set is named Houhai instead of Cangjie. If the set is called "GMK Cangjie" I would also vote for using Traditional Chinese.

    Personally I don't really mind if the runner chooses SC or TC, but if the runner wants to incorporate cultural context into the theme, I'd suggest him do it properly.

    And you were asking why it was insulting to accompany SC with Cangjie, I was just answering that question, theres nothing to do with whether SC is more widely used or not.

    Thanks for the explanation! Though I still don't know why it is considered "insulting" to use SC just because it is a simplified version of Chinese characters. It is personal preference after all. In the context of this set, using either of them makes sense :)

    Offline stickerliu

    • Posts: 8
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #33 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:10:04 »
    丑就一个字
    出国秀智商?,真长脸啊!
    The theme is nice. like the 老外 and 小吃 kits。 :thumb: but i think the red on alpha is not good,what about yellow or other colors? ;D
    « Last Edit: Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:15:03 by stickerliu »

    Offline Mekanist

    • Posts: 26
      • Archetype
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #34 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:23:22 »
    Not really my style, but loving the novelties!

    Offline easy_rider

    • Posts: 11
    • Location: Spain
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #35 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:36:46 »
    I'm getting some Blade Runner vibes here

    Offline Audiobs

    • Posts: 87
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #36 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:37:25 »
    Beautiful set! Will this be the first ever GMK set with Chinese characters? (Not talking about Hangul and Hiragana)

    Offline Audiobs

    • Posts: 87
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #37 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:39:55 »
    And thank you for going with the 'right' icon mods.

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #38 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:48:10 »
    Beautiful set! Will this be the first ever GMK set with Chinese characters? (Not talking about Hangul and Hiragana)

    Thank you! As far as I am aware, it will be the first GMK set with Chinese character legends, but not the first GMK Chinese language set. GMK Zhuyin ran on NK in March. Zhuyin is sort of a weird system where stroke elements (not even radicals) were extracted from Chinese characters to create a sort of alphabet called Bopomofo. They're not Chinese characters but they can be used to type Chinese.

    I know there are sets using Cangjie and other typing systems that are planned in other profiles, but none to my knowledge has been made yet. If I'm missing someone's design, please forgive me!

    And yes, why have bad icon mods when you can have good ones?

    Offline mcRewind

    • Posts: 14
    • Location: Las Vegas, NV
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #39 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 11:52:29 »
    Unique set, I appreciate the time you put into the kits. I would be interested to see instead of RAL 3024-HR as the alpha color, possibly having RAL 160 70 50 or RAL 1028-HR? The topdown E8.5 render shows that contrast you are talking about, but others don't do it much justice.

    Offline konstantin

    • Formerly constexpr
    • Posts: 1428
    • Location: Serbia
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #40 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 12:12:16 »
    Not an expert, but wouldn't it be better to have 功能/Fn instead of 菜单/Menu for all of the Fn keys, both Chinese and English? As far as I can tell, 菜单 refers to a restaurant/food menu...

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #41 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 12:57:14 »
    Not an expert, but wouldn't it be better to have 功能/Fn instead of 菜单/Menu for all of the Fn keys, both Chinese and English? As far as I can tell, 菜单 refers to a restaurant/food menu...

    I worked on these mod translations with Exclusive and based them on older existing boards and mod stickers available for the Chinese market. I had the same question as you but decided to go with menu. The word 菜单 applies to both restaurant and computer menus in Chinese as it does in English.

    Offline woyaodapian

    • Posts: 44
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #42 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 13:00:43 »
    This set kind of draws me to it the more I look at it.
    Would prefer if the set has alpha as the Base set. this set looks very expensive with a lot of wasted keycaps.

    Maybe look at the kitting for Kat Cyberspace. my 2 cents.


    Offline konstantin

    • Formerly constexpr
    • Posts: 1428
    • Location: Serbia
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #43 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 13:03:39 »
    I worked on these mod translations with Exclusive and based them on older existing boards and mod stickers available for the Chinese market. I had the same question as you but decided to go with menu. The word 菜单 applies to both restaurant and computer menus in Chinese as it does in English.

    Alright, thanks for the info.


    Offline Owl

    • Posts: 119
    • Location: United States
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #44 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 13:06:35 »
    This is tremendous. This is a must have for me. Thank you.

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #45 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 13:08:44 »
    Unique set, I appreciate the time you put into the kits. I would be interested to see instead of RAL 3024-HR as the alpha color, possibly having RAL 160 70 50 or RAL 1028-HR? The topdown E8.5 render shows that contrast you are talking about, but others don't do it much justice.

    I am fairly sure at this point that the lack of contrast has to do with the rendering, both "sexy" low-light environments and the angle of the lighting that picks up a "shine" off the surface of the keys. That's evidenced by the issue you're pointing out not showing up in any of the top-down renders. I do think it's worth fixing. However, I am definitely not going to remove the major theme color and a critical element of the backstory from the set.

    Offline NathanAlphaMan

    • Posts: 217
    • Location: Amalfi, Italy
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #46 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 13:17:44 »
    This set kind of draws me to it the more I look at it.
    Would prefer if the set has alpha as the Base set. this set looks very expensive with a lot of wasted keycaps.

    Maybe look at the kitting for Kat Cyberspace. my 2 cents.

    GMK =/= KAT. The kitting philosophy behind the two is completely different as the MOQ systems are completely different. With KAT there's a global "unit" MOQ, wherein if enough keycap units are bought, all kits are made, regardless how many people bought them. With GMK MOQ is per kit, if a particular kit doesn't get enough sales, it doesn't get made.

    Grundlemere and I spent a lot of time working on this kitting in order to get the most out of these legends for your money, likely some changes will come, but this is largely how it will stay I'd assume.

    Offline hangul

    • Posts: 6
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #47 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 13:42:55 »
    Interested

    Offline PotatoTM

    • Posts: 317
    • Location: ON, Canada
    • ...
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #48 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 15:00:06 »
    Strangely into it, il probably pick up a set! Not looking forward to the pricing of the kits though :P

    Offline grundlemere

    • Thread Starter
    • Posts: 147
    • Location: Washington, DC
    Re: [IC] GMK Houhai 后海
    « Reply #49 on: Fri, 19 June 2020, 15:45:01 »
    Strangely into it, il probably pick up a set! Not looking forward to the pricing of the kits though :P

    Gotta be honest, I don't think anyone is.  :-X  But I really created the kit I wanted, and every complexity is there for a reason. I hope people love it as much as I do, and I hope they can stomach the price. We will look at ways we might be able to split and simplify if the pricing is a nonstarter.