Author Topic: Looking for advice - Beginner  (Read 1967 times)

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Offline 3jackdaw

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Looking for advice - Beginner
« on: Tue, 29 December 2020, 23:06:31 »
Hello!

I have been a long time fan of keyboards, Well, typing in general but had never had enough knowledge or knowhow to further my interest. It has always been my understanding that keyboards are just an A or B kind of choice and recently just got into the whole spectrum of it.

As of the moment, I am using a MagicForce 68-Keys Mini Design Gaeteron Brown (60%)  which is I know, is very basic. I have been using this keyboard for almost 3 years now and never really put much thought into getting a new one until I discovered a certain sound from one of those ASMR youtube video. To satisfy my curiosity about that certain typing sound I have then bought some o-rings which is for softening the typing sound; but --- I legit thought I will be able to at least have a similar sound to that ASRM vid's keyboard.

Anyway, my question is or are...

Are there any keycaps or mods I can use to make my keyboard sound similar to this keyboard? I am well aware that my KB and that KB are very different not to mention diff type, model and brand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pBFfBZrbJM&t=26s

side note: I'm aware the specs are listed but I would also like to ask for alternatives if there are any.

If not then I am really interested in purchasing the Keychron k8.
I choose the k8 specifically not because of the sound but its layout which includes the INS,PU,DEL and PD keys.
Lastly, do you think its worth it to spend the extra money on the aluminum one? Will I be able to swap that out for a brass plate or something else in the future if I just get the plastic one for now?
Also, to have the same sound in the youtube video; which switch should I get with the k8? mods or other stuff I could add? I believe it only comes in Red,Blue or Brown. Will brown be the closest? because AFAIK, reds should sound more clicky and thats what the youtuber used on the KB.

The k8 is tbh, expensive for me. I'm still at that stage wherein I really need to justify spending $100-120 on a keyboard. The non-aluminum one is slightly cheaper (I live in SEA so prices here + shipping is ooof)
On the other hand, I also tell myself its a good investment since its quite pleasurable to use and its something I enjoy + I wont be buying new kb's after this any time soon. I hope.

Its been 8 days of me thinking about this and need some pro advice. It will be much appreciated! Thank you!

« Last Edit: Tue, 29 December 2020, 23:10:38 by 3jackdaw »

Offline yqqdrasil

  • Posts: 48
Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 29 December 2020, 23:40:41 »
Lubing your switches and stabilizers will make a biggest difference in the sound and feel of the board, regardless of which switch you have.

To lube everything, you will probably need to desolder the switches. There's tons of videos and guides on lubing you can check out.

Offline 3jackdaw

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Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:59:13 »
Thanks for the response!

what about regarding the K8? do you think paying for the aluminum version is worth it?

Offline yqqdrasil

  • Posts: 48
Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 03:12:06 »
Different case material certainly can affect the acoustics, so do keycap material, plate material, switches, springs, different types of lube, foam liner, etc.

Hotswap allows you to change switches and/or make other mods without the need to desolder, which is super convenient.

I would recommend you do more research before you decide on any board, especially a wireless one. I'm sure someone on here can give you better recommendations than myself. Leslie told me the GMMK is a very good hotswap board but I haven't tried it.

As far as prebuilt board brands go, I think Leopold and Ducky make the best ones and come with nice PBT keycaps, but neither offer hotswap or wireless AFAIK.


Offline 3jackdaw

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Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 03:19:55 »
Well noted! I will check those out thanks  ;D

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 06:24:54 »
The aluminum Keychron case is not a case, it's a skin that goes over the stock case. It may alter the sound a little but it's still a plastic case.
It's also a VERY tall keyboard, if you have any RSS (carpal tunnel) you will not like that keyboard or you will require a wrist wrest. It's at the very limit of what ergonomics experts recommend.


Making your keyboard sound that way CAN happen but it takes a lot of work and you won't get it from a major brand out of the box except maybe Topre. Not that factory boards are bad, but few if any can match that because they aren't going to do the work.

You need to use either high end switches (which few manufacturers offer and doesn't always do the job) or lube them yourself, you also need to lube (and possibly) bandaid mod the stabs. An aluminum case (actual aluminum case) can help but how much is dependent on what two you compare and I still say it's  secondary to lubrication and band aid modding because the lube is altering the sound at the source which is always better than trying to alter it after. It's not that the case doesn't matter but it's not required. My GMMK sounds every bit as good as my NK65, my Chinese custom and my heavily modded Filco.

As for the Magicforce (amazing little keyboard), pretty much any mechanical board can sound that way but it means desoldering the switches, desoldering is much more difficult than soldering unless you have the specialized tools for it. So what can you do? Well if you want to make a beast out of a budget keyboard Spacecat offers a bare PCB (mf68), unfortunately it's not built, hence the price, by this I mean you obviously need to add switches but also diodes and controller (it's not as hard as you think). Pretty sure at least someone else does or did offer something similar but pre-assembled (LFK maybe), even if you find one it's going to be more expensive, probably more than double what you paid for the Magicforce. The MF68 is cheap and if you screw up odds are the controller is still salvageable and diodes are a dime a dozen so if you want to learn this is a great option. And no, you do not need a hot air station to solder this, people solder these all the time with normal solder irons, it takes a little practice but after a few you will get the hang of it. You will also want to fill the bottom with foam, foam kitchen shelf liner works well.

I understand money is an issue but this is a LOT of work and not going to save you much compared to just buying a GMMK or Keychron and lubing it up and in the meantime your board is out of action, a board that could be used as a spare or loaner rather than being ripped apart for the few bits you will re-use (the case) or worst case ruined. If you want to go down that path you may want to try and find a cheap, used Magicforce to keep yours working. Another board to consider is the Novelkeys Nk65 Entry. It's a little more but it's a good little 65% board. You also mentioned you wanted specific keys, the Nk65, MF68 and GMMK are programmable however the NK65 and MF68 take this to heart with open source firmware. Basically any of these will let you reprogram it how you want you just may have incorrect labels, this is actually pretty common on high end customs simply because we can swap what they do but caps only come in a few layouts.

By the way, do not desolder your switches and try to use them on a hot swap (Keychron, GMMK, NK65), you will need fresh switches. Trying to re-use soldered ones can damage the hot swap which are already fragile enough.

One other thing, this goes back to the money.
You can always swap caps later but switches often cost as much or more than the rest of the keyboard and require the most effort, don't go cheap here expecting to change them later, do them right the first time. If you like browns, great, get browns, don't go for some linears just because they were on sale or a friend had a spare set, unless you have hot swap and those switches are free it will only cost you more later, possibly a lot more. By the same note don't think you need something like Zeals for a good experience, high end switches are great but what often makes them so much better than normal switches is that they get lubed better, everything after that is just fine tuning. Lube is the great equalizer on keyboards.

Side note, don't forget caps. They matter.
Thin PBT is horrible and needs to be shot out into the sun where they melt 1000 deaths, Doubleshot ABS is good, thick PBT (1.3mm or thicker doubleshot or dyesub) is better, better still is thick PBT with o-rings to further dampen the sound. Most people use o-rings to dampen bottom out that is not the intent here, mine do not touch, they merely add mass to the cap to change the sound but it doesn't work on all caps that way. I use these, it's a 139 key set so it should work with almost anything, if you use it on floating board like the GMMK or Magicforce the bottom edges are a bit sharp (you could sand them) but other than that it's a fantastic set for the money and with RGB backlighting looks fantastic. Here's a pretty good shot of how they look. You can probably get these really cheap right out of China or in smaller/cheaper sets. I just wanted something that worked on all my boards and these fit the bill.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
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Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
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Costar model with browns
| GH60
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Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline 3jackdaw

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 6
Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 07:25:42 »
Quote
Thin PBT is horrible and needs to be shot out into the sun where they melt 1000 deaths,
  :)) made me chuckle

  Okay, first of all thank you very much for this very detailed response. You hit every nail on the head with your answer and this will be a very good guide for me to refer to. It will also save me sometime in terms of research or references since you specifically answered each of my questions.

  I actually am still enjoying my current keyboard but so far, at this moment; I am leaning more on just getting a major brand out of the box kb. On that note, thanks for clarifying about the aluminum case thing. I'm just worried I'm missing out if I dont get that one. You are right in the other parts and aspects as well --- therefore, the money I would save will go to lube or stabs and of course caps.


Also, I did a little bit more research and finally know what type of switch I'm looking for. I'm set on getting reds (sadly they are out of the optical ones) for Keychron. You mentioned that I should make sure to get the one I like from the start, thanks for that tip because prior to you mentioning that; I was just really thinking "i'll get another set next time anyway" which is yes, def a ton more expenses.

Lastly, sometime early this year I will be really getting into this hobby and I am excited to get my first barebones set; so thanks for all the advice. For now, I'm just deciding weather to the k8 or the k4. Both have available hotswap options and has red switches but only one of them has the aluminum thingy. One is $97 and $118 with the aluminum. Just gotta think that part well  :confused:

Again, thanks for everything. It is much appreciated  :thumb:

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 644
  • Location: Acworth, GA
  • PC Cannibal
Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 09:25:23 »
If you want an out of box board, I'd look at the upcoming release for the GMMK Pro - might tick more boxes for what you're looking for.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline 3jackdaw

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 6
Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 12:54:22 »
Thanks for the tip! I do have access to GMMK boards online, though they are bit more pricey. I will give more time to check them out. Would you say they are a tier higher than the Keychrons?

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 644
  • Location: Acworth, GA
  • PC Cannibal
Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 14:54:16 »
The Pro I would consider a step above, the standard GMMK's I would place on par if not slightly better - I know Glorious' customer service is top notch as well.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 31 December 2020, 04:02:05 »
I'm just worried I'm missing out if I dont get that one.

I'm set on getting reds (sadly they are out of the optical ones)
You're welcome.

I have said this multiple times... Aluminum is not what many make it out to be. It's cold, heavy (it can damage your desk if you pick it up and drop it), and they're very prone to shocking people. Also note how many end up shoving foam inside and putting them on desk pads... All of this is trying to tune out the bad qualities of aluminum. About the only good thing is they're heavy which helps hold it in place (better feet solve this), they can be stiffer (some actually find them too stiff and look towards gasket mount and half plates to soften them up again) and finally looks. Almost everything else about aluminum is actually worse. It has a different sound but it's not always better, fit and finish can actually be worse (anodizing is tricky), they usually have harsher edges than plastic and the internals can send more noise into your desk or reflect more sound back at you. Are you missing out? The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I own several plastic and metal, metal is nice, but I'd put the GMMK in my top 3. A lot of what makes people think aluminum is better is price and exclusivity, you have a lot of people who have little experience and just spent all this money on a keyboard, they have to justify that to themselves, there's also a lot on internet points and e-peen involved. I'm not saying plastic is better just don't think metal is all that much better, if at all.

Make sure the optical switches you want work with normal hot swaps, many optical "hot swaps" are not MX compatible hot swap. They fit "MX" keycaps, but half of the switch is built into the PCB (it's more like an activator not a switch) so you can't swap between those with something like Gateron or Cherry switches or something, you can only swap between that specific companies "switches". I'm not aware of any optical that works where an MX switch does simply because they need power delivered to each individual switch. If you don't care about that and just want smooth opticals that's fine (they are extremely smooth), just make sure you know what you're getting so you don't later buy Cherry style switches or something and find out they won't work.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline 3jackdaw

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 6
Re: Looking for advice - Beginner
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 31 December 2020, 04:39:58 »
Quote
I have said this multiple times... Aluminum is not what many make it out to be. It's cold, heavy (it can damage your desk if you pick it up and drop it), and they're very prone to shocking people. Also note how many end up shoving foam inside and putting them on desk pads... All of this is trying to tune out the bad qualities of aluminum. About the only good thing is they're heavy which helps hold it in place (better feet solve this), they can be stiffer (some actually find them too stiff and look towards gasket mount and half plates to soften them up again) and finally looks. Almost everything else about aluminum is actually worse. It has a different sound but it's not always better, fit and finish can actually be worse (anodizing is tricky), they usually have harsher edges than plastic and the internals can send more noise into your desk or reflect more sound back at you. Are you missing out? The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I own several plastic and metal, metal is nice, but I'd put the GMMK in my top 3. A lot of what makes people think aluminum is better is price and exclusivity, you have a lot of people who have little experience and just spent all this money on a keyboard, they have to justify that to themselves, there's also a lot on internet points and e-peen involved. I'm not saying plastic is better just don't think metal is all that much better, if at all.

Oh, I gotta say this puts my indecisiveness to rest. I really do understand that its not all that great. I'm also glad you pointed it out and emphasized on the pros and cons of it a bit further. Since I'm looking into Keychron K8, people did say its looks better without the aluminum frame thing since it will look less gapped? spaced out? I can't explain it but I think you know what I mean. The empty spots would look more noticeable is what I'm saying.

Anyway, for the opticals --- I'm interested on it but if its not available, I'll happy to settle with any of the red switches Keychron has to offer since I'm getting the hotswap version anyway.

Okay, now I can save some money and just spend it elsewhere. Thank you very much for your wonderful guidance  :thumb: