Author Topic: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL  (Read 12101 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline immaphantomlol

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 54
[IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:10:34 »
Annus Mirabilis - Wonderful year. .../s



...2020 was a wild ride, I think we can all agree on that.



About the board:
This is a passion project of mine driven hard by my degen friends Zoomwalt and kimchijodyboi.
I wanted a TKL -- badly. No reason why other than aesthetics; It had to be curvy but classy enough to use in a professional environment.
After bouncing ideas back and forth I arrived at this:

Specs:
- 7*
- F12 TKL
- WK or WKL
- Top mount & O-Ring
- 6063 Aluminum top and bottom, Anodized Black or Silver
- Stainless Steel weight, Sandblasted - SUBJECT TO CHANGE
- Medium TX Bag

Plate:
- Based off of the Jane v2 plate for compatibility.
- ANSI ONLY!.... JK! ISO as well :p
- Aluminum, Polycarbonate (CF IS TDB)

PCB
- PCBs designed by Taylor (KO)
- Compatible with Wilba.Tech WT80 - GRAPHITE

Quantity:
- 100 units. It depends on the level of interest.

Pricing:
- Pricing TBD. But aiming to keep it between $500-$700usd.
- I want to emphasize that Pricing is TBD. Once we have a better idea on interest we can announce a more accurate price based on scale.



Prototype Photos:




Is that it?
- Nope!
We also have a numpad to go along with the board for those that are interested.
Currently waiting on the prototype, though.
More details coming soon.




To-Do list
- More & Better prototype photos
- Sound test. Currently waiting on switches.

Google form
Discord Server

I will post an update in a few days with FAQ's



« Last Edit: Tue, 02 February 2021, 21:37:30 by immaphantomlol »

Offline immaphantomlol

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 54
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:10:57 »
reserved

UPDATE 1/15/21

We have had PCB's designed for the project while maintaining compatibility with the WT80g PCB.
 - Will still be QMK/VIA compatible
 - Considering VIAL as well - Feel free to voice your opinion on that.

We are also communicating with other manufacturers.
 - The manu I have been using is inherently expensive though the quality is always consistent so we are exploring other options
 - Without saying too much, one manu we are speaking with us US-based and can provide comparable pricing and quality with much shorter lead times.

Due to the crazy prices of stainless steel we are considering the following:
 - Adjusting the size of the weight to accommodate a smaller and less costly piece of stock
 - Using coated brass as the standard while offering SS as an alternative.


UPDATE 2/1/2021

- kimchijodyboi streamed the build. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/896310886
- its clearly a pain in the ass to assemble unless you do things in a VERY specific order so were making the following changes:
  -- adjusting the daughterboard so it mounts to the bottom side of the case, not the weight.
  -- fixing the meme flex cuts and mounting points on the plate while maintaining compatibility with the jane v2 plate outline.
  -- were also toying with the idea of just making the weight a toblerone to reduce cost and unfortunately weight.


 




« Last Edit: Tue, 02 February 2021, 21:39:53 by immaphantomlol »

Offline Beenoman

  • Posts: 29
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:14:44 »
Gonna give the side profile without giving butt pics? What a tease

Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:30:20 »
Yeah, I am going to need a little more information to justify that price tag.

The stainless steel weight and the curvy sides adding to the manufacturing costs isn't really much of a reason.
From what I can see, your sides are still fairly flat. The only real curve comes from the side profile itself. Also, lets be real. 50 units means you order between 75 and 100 from the manu to ensure that you have sufficient protection from subpar QC on their side. This not allowing you to enjoy significant economies of scale isn't much of an excuse to be frank.

At this price point, you are competing with Keycult, Rama, TGR - which are established brands with a certified level of quality. As someone new to the hobby, it is likely that you do not have the knowledge to deliver this level of quality. Start out slower, lower your margin and machining complexity. Start simpler, build a reputation, then run this board. You already have four versions of the board, and still no actual history. Many may see this as a cashgrab because you just don't have the reputation to back up that price.
« Last Edit: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:44:49 by PerforatedBinderPaper »

Offline Shinigamii

  • Posts: 31
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:38:31 »
Definitely need to see a bunch more photos of the protos, would love to see them in more natural settings and lighting as well.  I really enjoy the design, and will keep my eye on this.  Good luck with IC, looking forward to updates

Offline immaphantomlol

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 54
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:45:02 »
Gonna give the side profile without giving butt pics? What a tease

my b. Took one for you :D



Yeah, I am going to need a little more information to justify that price tag.
The stainless steel weight and the curvy sides adding to the manufacturing costs isn't really much of a reason.
From what I can see, your sides are still fairly flat. The only real curve comes from the side profile itself.
Also, lets be real. 50 units means you order between 75 and 100 from the manu to ensure that you have sufficient protection from subpar QC on their side. This not allowing you to enjoy significant economies of scale isn't much of an excuse to be frank.
Your design nor your excuses are unable to justify your price tag.


I listed the upper limit on pricing which is far from firm. Were going to do our best to scale once we gauge how much interest there is for this and if interest is overwhelming expect the projected price to come down substantially.

Definitely need to see a bunch more photos of the protos, would love to see them in more natural settings and lighting as well.  I really enjoy the design, and will keep my eye on this.  Good luck with IC, looking forward to updates

Working on getting more photos and a type test not recorded with an iPhone! Doing what I can with what I got.

Offline mindgame

  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Russia, Moscow
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 00:52:30 »
Hey,
What is the irony? I don't understand why 2020, is it because the usd is losing its value and $ 700 is nothing now? ;)

Online LightningXI

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3689
  • Location: New York
  • PPD
    • ArtisanMacro
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 01:20:03 »
Pricewise, it does seem expensive. Assuming it were a brass weight and not stainless steel, I would imagine that the difference between brass vs SS in price wouldn't be too far off. One might argue that the inclusion of a TX bag (let's say +$30-35) and the wilba.tech PCB could warrant  a small bump in price. Maybe there's also the US-China tariffs to consider -- even so, $500-700 seems very expensive.

I am no expert in machining so cannot comment much on that, besides just knowing that CNC time correlates with cost.

For a first-run keyboard, the price seems bumped up significantly to account for logistics and a cushion (revenue aside). There is also no exact guarantee for how the overall quality will be, so while I am interested at a first glance at the prototype photos, I feel a bit skeptical.

Just my thoughts at 2am.

------

Can you provide any photos of internals? Like the mounting tabs for the plate, overall interior of the bottom and top pieces, etc. The renders and photos show ONLY exterior views, which makes me think there's more to be seen on the inside.
« Last Edit: Wed, 30 December 2020, 01:26:15 by LightningXI »

Offline ephemeral25

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Paris, France
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 02:30:37 »
Quote
There will be at least 4 different runs of this board.
Questionmark ?
HHKB Hybrid Type-S | Black Singa Jaguar | Electrotype 87 Bifrost | Discipline65 | M0118 ISOFR Orange Alps | Fortune 32:16 Digitran ISODE | Novatouch ISOFR | Silenced Novatouch ANSI BKE REdux Light

Offline zoo

  • Posts: 163
    • zoo
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 02:50:30 »
I like the look of this design a lot! Those curves on the front and back as well as the side profile are really beautiful, so it looks pretty balanced overall.

Really hope the logistics work out! I will keep an eye on this :)

Offline kk73715

  • Posts: 88
  • Why are you even reading
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 05:41:49 »
Quote
There will be at least 4 different runs of this board.
Questionmark ?

Silver and black, then WK or WKL

Offline VipermanGT2

  • Posts: 58
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 05:45:38 »
Is this pronounced Anus? Or Uh-noose?

Offline GMK83

  • Posts: 42
  • Location: Libertyville
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 06:08:52 »
I’d agree with what others have said, upper end of the range certainly seems high for the board, but as you’ve mentioned it’s an estimate at this point.  Board overall looks good and I think you’ve accomplished something that is curvy and classy.  Limiting to two colors should help you control costs and resolve QC issues easier.  Glad to see new makers enter the space so hope this goes well for you.

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Posts: 308
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 07:08:58 »
Funny thing about pricing is that nobody really knows how to price in this community, especially those who have not ran a GB before. Everyone's margins are different. Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I don't believe that people buying a product needs to fully understand all the economics of how something is run. However, make sure you don't price yourself out of the market because what others said are true. If your price is the same as reputable vendors out there without a track record, it might be hard to find people to support you in a group buy.

My suggestion is to start small, possibly with a little lower price than you might want. Then build up a reputation that you can deliver and charge more the second round. Anyways, good luck!  :thumb:
« Last Edit: Wed, 30 December 2020, 09:07:31 by driftingbunnies »

Offline Diggidy

  • Posts: 46
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 07:26:36 »
Is this pronounced Anus? Or Uh-noose?

Debating the pronunciation of this is just opening a real black hole...

Nice keyboard.

Offline bansheetango

  • Posts: 23
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 08:44:42 »
Looks good, no indicator LEDs though?

Offline illusixn

  • Posts: 38
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 11:18:26 »
How dare you not sell your board for $350 so it can end up on mm for $700 2 days after the first GB unit is delivered.

Offline CosminOance

  • Posts: 30
  • Location: London
  • I see things
    • PixelDrama.club by Cosmin Oance
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 11:22:49 »
Is this pronounced Anus? Or Uh-noose?
Debating the pronunciation of this is just opening a real black hole...

Some people focus on details, they're quite... anal about it

ON:
Just in case there's a need for piling on, the curvature from the front, it looks nice. I would never pay this much though, without the keyboard having any sort of "gimmicks", so to speak.

Offline guzzi

  • Posts: 42
  • Location: Germany
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 12:33:36 »
How dare you not sell your board for $350 so it can end up on mm for $700 2 days after the first GB unit is delivered.

Everything in this hobby is getting flipped. Why would a flipper care what it costs, he's only going to mark it up by 2-3 times and then resell it 5 seconds later to some whale anyways.
The claim that "high prices prevent flipping" is something I have not seen convincing evidence of so far, to put it very diplomatically. Besides, the runner has not even made that argument himself.

And just for the record, I am not making any claims on what this board should or should not cost, or what the makers intentions are with the pricing he will come up with.

Offline illusixn

  • Posts: 38
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 13:02:23 »
How dare you not sell your board for $350 so it can end up on mm for $700 2 days after the first GB unit is delivered.

Everything in this hobby is getting flipped. Why would a flipper care what it costs, he's only going to mark it up by 2-3 times and then resell it 5 seconds later to some whale anyways.
The claim that "high prices prevent flipping" is something I have not seen convincing evidence of so far, to put it very diplomatically. Besides, the runner has not even made that argument himself.

And just for the record, I am not making any claims on what this board should or should not cost, or what the makers intentions are with the pricing he will come up with.

Ok, but why shouldn't the runner be able to reap more of the profits of the efforts they've put forward?
(If monetary profits are their incentive of choice. I'm sure there are makers out there who just want people to be satisfied with the thing they created)

Offline noorejji

  • Posts: 244
  • Location: yurop
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 13:04:12 »
It’ll probably sell out if priced between $500-600, so why compromise to hit a lower price point? The board doesn’t wow me enough personally for that price point, but I think OP will do just fine anyway, so I wish him all the best.

Offline guzzi

  • Posts: 42
  • Location: Germany
Re: Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 14:26:30 »
How dare you not sell your board for $350 so it can end up on mm for $700 2 days after the first GB unit is delivered.

Everything in this hobby is getting flipped. Why would a flipper care what it costs, he's only going to mark it up by 2-3 times and then resell it 5 seconds later to some whale anyways.
The claim that "high prices prevent flipping" is something I have not seen convincing evidence of so far, to put it very diplomatically. Besides, the runner has not even made that argument himself.

And just for the record, I am not making any claims on what this board should or should not cost, or what the makers intentions are with the pricing he will come up with.

Ok, but why shouldn't the runner be able to reap more of the profits of the efforts they've put forward?
(If monetary profits are their incentive of choice. I'm sure there are makers out there who just want people to be satisfied with the thing they created)

Your comment seemed to imply something about flipping, otherwise I don't know what mechmarket has to do with this.
If you are essentially asking "Why can't the maker make more money off his work", then of course,
creators are free to price their projects however they wish, but people are also free to ask about
how that pricetag came to be if they percieve it to be too high for what they are getting, which apparently annoyed you.

Offline stevenT

  • Posts: 68
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 31 December 2020, 07:00:15 »
I hope GMK phantom color get another run.

Offline Friendship

  • Posts: 30
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 09:26:54 »
interested but most of all in the numpad :)

will the numpad also be top mount/gasket and could I purchase it stand alone if need be?

Offline yui

  • Posts: 728
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 06 January 2021, 03:47:52 »
definitely looks beautiful and i am rather interested, but i can't make any promises as i do not know what kind of money i will have when it goes into production, and i would be interested in both keyboard and numpad. i most definitely do not have enough money this or next month though :)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Beenoman

  • Posts: 29
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 06 January 2021, 10:35:52 »
This looks like if aio3 designed a reference series TKL. Interesting side profile, but there's not much about it that's unique, and your price estimates are very high.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 728
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 08 January 2021, 02:05:36 »
i just spotted something strange, you say ISO support and also say that you would use a Wilba.Tech WT80 that as far as i can find online does not support ISO, so what is it then?
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Kingjunguhn

  • Posts: 30
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 08 January 2021, 05:37:14 »
Looks nice and expensive. Colour me intrigued
url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107845.0][/url

Offline Nuclear Nachos

  • Posts: 64
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 08 January 2021, 06:49:40 »
i just spotted something strange, you say ISO support and also say that you would use a Wilba.Tech WT80 that as far as i can find online does not support ISO, so what is it then?
wt80 graphite has iso support https://salvun.com/products/wilba-graphite-pcb?variant=32790003712046

Guten Abend, ich bin Oblotzky und ich mag Würstchen und Computertastaturen.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 728
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 11 January 2021, 01:48:50 »
i just spotted something strange, you say ISO support and also say that you would use a Wilba.Tech WT80 that as far as i can find online does not support ISO, so what is it then?
wt80 graphite has iso support https://salvun.com/products/wilba-graphite-pcb?variant=32790003712046
i thought graphite was just the color, so i did not pay much attention, thanks for pointing that out
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline immaphantomlol

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 54
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 19:49:05 »
Pricewise, it does seem expensive. Assuming it were a brass weight and not stainless steel, I would imagine that the difference between brass vs SS in price wouldn't be too far off. One might argue that the inclusion of a TX bag (let's say +$30-35) and the wilba.tech PCB could warrant  a small bump in price. Maybe there's also the US-China tariffs to consider -- even so, $500-700 seems very expensive.

I am no expert in machining so cannot comment much on that, besides just knowing that CNC time correlates with cost.

For a first-run keyboard, the price seems bumped up significantly to account for logistics and a cushion (revenue aside). There is also no exact guarantee for how the overall quality will be, so while I am interested at a first glance at the prototype photos, I feel a bit skeptical.

Just my thoughts at 2am.

------

Can you provide any photos of internals? Like the mounting tabs for the plate, overall interior of the bottom and top pieces, etc. The renders and photos show ONLY exterior views, which makes me think there's more to be seen on the inside.

Were doing our best to get the price down as the manu we started with is rather expensive though the quality is always consistent. im also working on getting more photos for you.

This looks like if aio3 designed a reference series TKL. Interesting side profile, but there's not much about it that's unique, and your price estimates are very high.

ill take that as a compliment.

« Last Edit: Sat, 16 January 2021, 00:45:34 by immaphantomlol »

Offline Dawnzo

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 00:18:55 »
Maybe its a bit early to be thinking about, but any ideas how the gb will run with the numpad. It'd be cool to have the board plus the matching numpad, but if they're both 100 fcfs I'd imagine there wouldn't be a lot of people able to get both as a set.

Offline immaphantomlol

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 54
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 16:09:17 »
Maybe its a bit early to be thinking about, but any ideas how the gb will run with the numpad. It'd be cool to have the board plus the matching numpad, but if they're both 100 fcfs I'd imagine there wouldn't be a lot of people able to get both as a set.

That's actually a really interesting question. I think we were initially going to offer the numpad as an addon but I also don't want anyone to feel like they need to buy the keyboard in order to get one. Let me go over this with my team and I'll let you know!

Offline actress

  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Sweden
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 19 January 2021, 16:53:25 »
Do you have a Discord for updates?

Offline immaphantomlol

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 54
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 01 February 2021, 21:28:58 »
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 February 2021, 21:37:07 by immaphantomlol »

Offline humeni

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 02 February 2021, 09:05:58 »
Do you have a Discord for updates?

yes!

Discord server

it seems your given discord link is broken

could you give us a new invite link? :)

Offline immaphantomlol

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 54
Re: [IC] Annus Mirabilis TKL
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 02 February 2021, 21:38:38 »
Do you have a Discord for updates?

yes!

Discord server

it seems your given discord link is broken

could you give us a new invite link? :)

sorry about that, it should be fixed.