Author Topic: Jail house blue switches improvements  (Read 667 times)

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Offline problemxyz

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  • Posts: 24
  • Location: Belgium
Jail house blue switches improvements
« on: Mon, 22 March 2021, 10:28:01 »
I have some Gateron Blues laying around that I jailhoused a while ago. The method I used where tiny 0002 ring on each side of the pinned leg that holds that white plastic click bracket.
I dug em for a while and I daily drove them. But then the very very subtle sticky and dulled feeling of them started to bother me a bit to the point where I couldn't think of the switches as feeling good anymore.

I can imagine this is because the o-rings are rubber and the ever so slight squishiness inherent to it. I even tried copper wire at one point. But the inconsistency and the nasty sound didn't really get me much further. It felt like a lip was broken of and floating inside the switch.

But I still feel their potential however.

And as far as I can see we're left with J-spacers now. Which I haven't been able to find for obvious reasons. But maybe there's other options still?
No?

Offline Leslieann

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  • Posts: 3675
Re: Jail house blue switches improvements
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 22 March 2021, 22:20:26 »
That was one issue i worried about with the o-ring method.
I have hand wired and J-spacers, J-spacers will replicate the feel of o-ring method, but they too can have the same issue with drag, I had a few that were fickle but I would imagine it was less than with o-rings. Hand wired can also snag but is easier to fix and once fixed will stay that way for life but they are a lot more work and they don't feel the same (more travel and retain some click, also hard to make consistent). There is someone 3d printing (using powder or resin, not FDM) making clips, they will not have the dampening and depending on fit could retain some click like the hand wired or fall somewhere in between hand wired and o-ring but it should be consistent and the design I saw also didn't change the spring rate, an issue with many other methods. J-spacers were restocked recently.

My advice, get Zeal 62g Zealios or Zilents and eliminate all the work and variables, the Zilents even replicate the bottom out squish.
I have hand wired Cherry, J-spaced Gaterons, Zilents (as well as a few Zealios), I use the Zilents on my daily driver and hand wired on my backup. The only way I'll do Jailhouse blues again is if I hand wire them.
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Offline problemxyz

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 24
  • Location: Belgium
Re: Jail house blue switches improvements
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 24 March 2021, 11:32:54 »
My advice, get Zeal 62g Zealios or Zilents and eliminate all the work and variables, the Zilents even replicate the bottom out squish.
I have hand wired Cherry, J-spaced Gaterons, Zilents (as well as a few Zealios), I use the Zilents on my daily driver and hand wired on my backup. The only way I'll do Jailhouse blues again is if I hand wire them.

I'm currently actually daily driving those new Gazzew Boba U4 Silents. Touted as poor man's Zilents or even on par according to some. I Have no experience with Zilents but point being yes I'm definitely not relying on Jailhouses to satisfy my tactile needs. Its more like curious if there is a revisit in some way or form that would make them more enjoyable.
It's extra interesting that you say going the wiring route you would prefer over o-rings and Jspacers. More personal and that's what drew me in about the Jailhouses to begin with.

No?

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3675
Re: Jail house blue switches improvements
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 24 March 2021, 21:42:27 »
I'm currently actually daily driving those new Gazzew Boba U4 Silents. Touted as poor man's Zilents or even on par according to some. I Have no experience with Zilents but point being yes I'm definitely not relying on Jailhouses to satisfy my tactile needs. Its more like curious if there is a revisit in some way or form that would make them more enjoyable.
It's extra interesting that you say going the wiring route you would prefer over o-rings and Jspacers. More personal and that's what drew me in about the Jailhouses to begin with.
The only change is using resin and powder printers, resin is doable at home and semi cheap though I hesitate to recommend it for home use. It's also silly to buy a printer just for that purpose. Powder is expensive, no two ways about it. I wouldn't expect much in the way of developments, not that it's impossible but we blew through the most obvious methods. Who knows though, someone may come up with something tomorrow as there's still a surprisingly large number of people playing with them.

I haven't tried many boutique switches but it wouldn't surprise me if they're on par. Most are made by Gateron and lube is a great equalizer so there's not likely to be a big difference.
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Offline boneskid1

  • Posts: 2
Re: Jail house blue switches improvements
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 30 March 2021, 15:07:03 »
My dad has a 3d printer so he printed the J-Spacers listed on thingverse and they seem to work well. A few of them click a little bit, but if I had lubed them better it would have worked out better. I have 2 fullsize keyboards with MX Blues that I am desoldering to harvest the blues for more Jailhouse switches. Cause something has gotten to me and I no longer like giant keebs.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3675
Re: Jail house blue switches improvements
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 30 March 2021, 22:03:19 »
If the spacer is just off by even .01mm (or less) it can click.
Very few 3d printers are capable of printing at this height much less get that accurate on the first layer. Even fewer can do it consistently much less across a significant portion of the bed.

Even cheap digital calipers fail at this level as well (on top of user error). It may look like your cheapo digital calipers can get that accurate and while they're perfectly fine for casual FDM and resin printing I was actually surprised how much more precise things were when I got a good digital caliper, I cut my tolerances in half. Is that precision worth what a Mitutoyo digital caliper cost, probably not and the market is flooded with knockoffs (yellow head). By the way, they haven't cloned the older model (dark gray head) and you can get those in good, used condition for $80, they don't do fractional inches, but otherwise they work great.

As for those spacers, if you reduce them just a teeny bit they will all click slightly but be more consistent, alternatively you could increase them just a tad so they wedge in there a teeny bit, just increase or reduce z (without scaling x and y).
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Offline boneskid1

  • Posts: 2
Re: Jail house blue switches improvements
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 01 April 2021, 23:06:19 »
If the spacer is just off by even .01mm (or less) it can click.
Very few 3d printers are capable of printing at this height much less get that accurate on the first layer. Even fewer can do it consistently much less across a significant portion of the bed.

Even cheap digital calipers fail at this level as well (on top of user error). It may look like your cheapo digital calipers can get that accurate and while they're perfectly fine for casual FDM and resin printing I was actually surprised how much more precise things were when I got a good digital caliper, I cut my tolerances in half. Is that precision worth what a Mitutoyo digital caliper cost, probably not and the market is flooded with knockoffs (yellow head). By the way, they haven't cloned the older model (dark gray head) and you can get those in good, used condition for $80, they don't do fractional inches, but otherwise they work great.

As for those spacers, if you reduce them just a teeny bit they will all click slightly but be more consistent, alternatively you could increase them just a tad so they wedge in there a teeny bit, just increase or reduce z (without scaling x and y).



As stupid as it might sound I am going to use a small dab of super glue on the click jacket. I do not like the clicky sound anymore and I would definitely not reverse the jailhouse mod, so that should help. I might try those settings next time but he already printed me enough for my next batch of switches.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3675
Re: Jail house blue switches improvements
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 03 April 2021, 08:19:37 »
I'm not sure how well glue will work.
You have to be careful where it goes and doesn't go. Too little and it won't hold, too much and get it somewhere wrong it can trash the switch entirely. You also need to make sure the switch is absolutely clean which is difficult as silicone lube is a b*tch to remove. If you don't have an ultrasonic cleaner you probably won't get it clean enough. Another issue is the glue itself, not all glue is appropriate.
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| Magicforce 68
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