Author Topic: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo  (Read 13468 times)

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Offline senter

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[GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« on: Tue, 17 May 2022, 21:17:59 »



Render:


Prototype:


Sand Glass Ergo is an 80% ergonomic layout keyboard kit design we designed in collaboration with designer KeepCalm.

IC post: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=115791.0

Group Buy Information

1. How to order

Visit https://foxlab.store/products/sand-glass-ergo
The link will be available starting from 05-18-2022 at 10 PM ET.

2. What does a kit include?

  • Top case, middle frame, bottom case
  • Wrist rest
  • Left and right mounting plates
  • Left and right 1.2mm PCBs with cable + USB Type C connector daughter board with cable
  • Gasket strips (28 pieces), Plate alignment gasket strip (11 pieces)
  • Poron sheet between the PCB and the plate
  • Dumper sheet under the PCB
  • Others: Stabilizer spacers, Screws, Dumper strips between the middle frame and the bottom case, Bottom case rubber feet (4 pieces), Wrist rest rubber feet (5 pieces), etc.

3. Explanation of the options

  • The color options are fixed for Sandglass Ergo. It is one of the more niche kits we developed so we want to make the GB simpler.
  • It does not include a brass weight because it is already heavy enough. It's even heavier than all our previous kits except for the full brass ones.
  • Solder PCBs with ALPS support are not available in this run but will be available in the future.
  • The hot-swappable PCB is 1.2mm thick. It uses QMK or VIA firmware. Surface mount white color LEDs are pre-soldered. The layout of the PCB is shown below.
  • The carbon fiber wrist-rest is canceled in this GB due to the difficulties in quality control.



4. What's the price?

Each kit is 525 USD during the GB.
The shipping fee is $85 for each kit for most countries.
The shipping weight is around 6 kg / 13 pounds for each kit with packing.
Buying multiple kits in one order does not reduce your shipping fee.

5. Timeline and limits

The GB starts from 05-18-2022 at 10 PM ET.
It will open for 7 days unless the number of orders is getting too big. A soft top limit is 400 kits in total.
I do not expect it to be reached. It's the number we can handle in a reasonable time. The expected lead time is 3 months.


Files

The VIA keymap file: download
« Last Edit: Wed, 03 August 2022, 13:12:54 by senter »

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 10:02:00 »
Approved :thumb:

Offline Jubileus

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 11:25:45 »
Will the stabilizer spacers clearance issue for backspace key, as shown in the video, be fixed? Also what's the material for the case and plates?

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 11:29:09 »
Can we know if this future Solder PCB will support other layouts? And also support standard MX switches?
I need my split backspace.
I also prefer a different configuration for my bottom row with a 1u on the right side of the left spacebar
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 May 2022, 12:07:21 by CookieFlow »
       

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 12:11:19 »

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 12:12:44 »
Will the stabilizer spacers clearance issue for backspace key, as shown in the video, be fixed? Also what's the material for the case and plates?

Yes. The position of one diode will be moved just 1mm distance to make the clearance.
The case and plates are made from aluminum.

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 12:18:37 »
Can we know if this future Solder PCB will support other layouts? And also support standard MX switches?
I need my split backspace.
I also prefer a different configuration for my bottom row with a 1u on the right side of the left spacebar

Yes. It will support multiple layouts. That's the purpose of having the solderable PCB. It will support MX and ALPS.
Do you mean split the 2.75u key with 1.75u+1u? The layout hasn't been finalized yet so I do need more input.

Offline less_blank

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 12:38:39 »
No carbon fiber wrist rest is definitely a bummer, that was a big selling point for me. Oh well, GLWGB.

Offline Jubileus

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 13:07:40 »
Can we know if this future Solder PCB will support other layouts? And also support standard MX switches?
I need my split backspace.
I also prefer a different configuration for my bottom row with a 1u on the right side of the left spacebar

Yes. It will support multiple layouts. That's the purpose of having the solderable PCB. It will support MX and ALPS.
Do you mean split the 2.75u key with 1.75u+1u? The layout hasn't been finalized yet so I do need more input.

I would personally want something like this similar to other alice layouts like below, but then you would have to redo the top case to accomodate the extra key.

now that i think about it its basically just swapping the left and right spacebar cluster lol. i guess its too late for that.

Having the 1u key on the left makes it more ergonomic when using as an fn key, rather than trying to reach for the 1u key on the right with your left thumb while your right hand is on the mouse or arrow keys or nav clusters. You could use the “nice” key as your left side fn but then again it looses the ergonomics since its too far from the home row
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 May 2022, 13:36:08 by Jubileus »

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 14:17:49 »
Can we know if this future Solder PCB will support other layouts? And also support standard MX switches?
I need my split backspace.
I also prefer a different configuration for my bottom row with a 1u on the right side of the left spacebar

Yes. It will support multiple layouts. That's the purpose of having the solderable PCB. It will support MX and ALPS.
Do you mean split the 2.75u key with 1.75u+1u? The layout hasn't been finalized yet so I do need more input.


Great news thanks

I was thinking more as the screenshot above 2.25u + 1u or even 2u + 1u

Will we be able to purchase this solder PCB before the board ships so that we don't have to pay for shipping again?
       

Offline Welo

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 16:02:06 »
Is the blue colour final as shown in the prototype or aiming to be close to renders?

Offline 10peaches

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 21:22:17 »
You mentioned about solderable pcb offered in the future run. Is it just the pcb will be available or another groupbuy for the whole kit?
Cheers!

Offline tngpq

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 18 May 2022, 22:36:29 »
As a right hand spacebar hitter, my thumb hits the spacebar between B and N, a bit closer to N though. If you have a 2.25u on the right, I am hitting almost the left edge of the split spacebar. Maybe this is just me with a relatively large hand, but something you might want to consider as this isn't that ergonomic..
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 May 2022, 22:38:04 by tngpq »

Offline FallenCow

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 00:51:10 »
I'd like to see the 1u key in between either spacebar removed. i.e. make the configuration like Owlab's Spring or Meridian, with 2.75u spacebar on the right and the 2.25u on the left or vice versa. Also, another vote for split backspace support as well.

Also, I thought the 1.75u right shift is a little odd for a TKL. Definitely less need to use layers for most TKL users. Would rather see that as a standard full 2.25u shift (hopefully getting the sizing right) and split backspace support.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 May 2022, 00:55:58 by FallenCow »

Offline vi0till

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[GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 10:54:41 »
Can we know if this future Solder PCB will support other layouts? And also support standard MX switches?
I need my split backspace.
I also prefer a different configuration for my bottom row with a 1u on the right side of the left spacebar

Yes. It will support multiple layouts. That's the purpose of having the solderable PCB. It will support MX and ALPS.
Do you mean split the 2.75u key with 1.75u+1u? The layout hasn't been finalized yet so I do need more input.

I would personally want something like this similar to other alice layouts like below, but then you would have to redo the top case to accomodate the extra key.

now that i think about it its basically just swapping the left and right spacebar cluster lol. i guess its too late for that.

Having the 1u key on the left makes it more ergonomic when using as an fn key, rather than trying to reach for the 1u key on the right with your left thumb while your right hand is on the mouse or arrow keys or nav clusters. You could use the “nice” key as your left side fn but then again it looses the ergonomics since its too far from the home row
Show Image

I much prefer traditional spacebar layout as this as well. Considering to join if we can have this option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 May 2022, 10:56:40 by vi0till »

Offline Mr_BeastQuake

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 11:34:04 »
Cool looking board. Am looking for ergo TKL but no solder PCB is a deal breaker. Would be interested in the next round.

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 14:38:25 »
Can we know if this future Solder PCB will support other layouts? And also support standard MX switches?
I need my split backspace.
I also prefer a different configuration for my bottom row with a 1u on the right side of the left spacebar

Yes. It will support multiple layouts. That's the purpose of having the solderable PCB. It will support MX and ALPS.
Do you mean split the 2.75u key with 1.75u+1u? The layout hasn't been finalized yet so I do need more input.

I would personally want something like this similar to other alice layouts like below, but then you would have to redo the top case to accomodate the extra key.

now that i think about it its basically just swapping the left and right spacebar cluster lol. i guess its too late for that.

Having the 1u key on the left makes it more ergonomic when using as an fn key, rather than trying to reach for the 1u key on the right with your left thumb while your right hand is on the mouse or arrow keys or nav clusters. You could use the “nice” key as your left side fn but then again it looses the ergonomics since its too far from the home row
Show Image


If it's a 60% board I would agree with you. For a 80% board, the FN is not that necessary imo.

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 14:43:02 »
Can we know if this future Solder PCB will support other layouts? And also support standard MX switches?
I need my split backspace.
I also prefer a different configuration for my bottom row with a 1u on the right side of the left spacebar

Yes. It will support multiple layouts. That's the purpose of having the solderable PCB. It will support MX and ALPS.
Do you mean split the 2.75u key with 1.75u+1u? The layout hasn't been finalized yet so I do need more input.


Great news thanks

I was thinking more as the screenshot above 2.25u + 1u or even 2u + 1u

Will we be able to purchase this solder PCB before the board ships so that we don't have to pay for shipping again?

1.25u+2u+1u seems possible.

Yes if we can finish the solder PCBs before shipping out your board. We can also pause your shipping and wait for the solder PCB. The demand for the solder PCBs is not much so we're flexible with the solutions.

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 14:43:38 »
Is the blue colour final as shown in the prototype or aiming to be close to renders?

aiming to be closer to the renders.
same for the red color on the black kit.

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 14:45:09 »
You mentioned about solderable pcb offered in the future run. Is it just the pcb will be available or another groupbuy for the whole kit?
Cheers!

Just the PCB.
We do not have a plan for another group buy for the kit.

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 14:50:17 »
I'd like to see the 1u key in between either spacebar removed. i.e. make the configuration like Owlab's Spring or Meridian, with 2.75u spacebar on the right and the 2.25u on the left or vice versa. Also, another vote for split backspace support as well.

Also, I thought the 1.75u right shift is a little odd for a TKL. Definitely less need to use layers for most TKL users. Would rather see that as a standard full 2.25u shift (hopefully getting the sizing right) and split backspace support.

If you look at several posts above, people are asking for a split left spacebar and left FN. There's no right or wrong, just preferences, IMO. A single layout cannot please everyone we know that well.
That being said, we do plan to solder PCBs in the future with multiple layout support.

Offline granola bar enthusiast

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 15:57:36 »
this is a really nice design, would join if i wasn't broke.

good luck on this project and the boards released in the future by fox lab!

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 19:21:14 »
tentative layout for the MX/ALPS solder PCB for those who care about it
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/8cd5ebb499290c2c90e35da8fbbb0dd2

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 19 May 2022, 19:30:40 »
tentative layout for the MX/ALPS solder PCB for those who care about it
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/8cd5ebb499290c2c90e35da8fbbb0dd2

Looks good to me.
It would have been nice to be able to choose the Solder PCB as an option with the Keyboard as the Hotswap PCB is totally useless to some of us.
And considering a lot of people that choose Solder PCB's often buy 2, also quite a lot more expensive.

Hopefully the pricing on the PCB will be reasonable.
       

Offline hkhawk

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 22 May 2022, 12:42:49 »
Is the blue colour final as shown in the prototype or aiming to be close to renders?

aiming to be closer to the renders.
same for the red color on the black kit.

I can't quite tell from the render, is the red going to be more bright red or burgundy in color?

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 25 May 2022, 08:47:43 »
Is the blue colour final as shown in the prototype or aiming to be close to renders?

aiming to be closer to the renders.
same for the red color on the black kit.

I can't quite tell from the render, is the red going to be more bright red or burgundy in color?

It will be a bright red like in the renders. The prototype part was in dark burgundy.

Offline adi518

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 31 May 2022, 16:13:02 »
Looks really nice, I mean great concept done right. My only concern is a missing Alt key right to the left spacebar. Why is it absent?

Offline poeharl

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 17 June 2022, 23:54:40 »
You mentioned about solderable pcb offered in the future run. Is it just the pcb will be available or another groupbuy for the whole kit?
Cheers!

Just the PCB.
We do not have a plan for another group buy for the kit.

Shame no round two. I missed out :(

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 20 June 2022, 09:10:39 »
Update:




Around 70% of manufacturing (CNC and surface finishing) is done. We are ahead of schedule now.