Author Topic: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE  (Read 25840 times)

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Offline Abec13

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Hello and welcome to the Group Buy for The Gentoo!


GMK Hammerhead Dark on Blue with PVD sides, GMK Bingsu on White, GMK Botanical on Green, GMK Rudy on Black

Inspiration
The Gentoo is a penguin themed, 65% keyboard that is a clear successor to my previously released board, The Adélie. With The Adelie paying homage to my favorite types of boards, sub 60's, it excluded the number row. For some, this was a deal breaker and I can't say that I blame them.

"Gentoo" is the name of a different species of penguin and as the name of this board works two fold: not only is this board the "Gen 2" of its predecessor, the Gentoo penguin, as you can see here, is a slightly larger penguin than the Adélie which I find aptly describes the relation between this board and the last.

When:
Saturday May 28 11am EST
First Serve for all vendors
Duration: one week

Expected Delivery, Q4 of 2022.

Vendors:
US: https://cannonkeys.com/collections/gentoo Units: 350
CA: https://www.deskhero.ca/products/gentoo-keyboard Units: 35
UK: https://prototypist.net/collections/gentoo-keyboard-extras-group-buy Units: 35
EU: https://mykeyboard.eu/ Units: TBD
CN: https://ilumkb.com/collections/live-drop Units: 50
OC: https://dailyclack.com/ Units: TBD

Vendor quantities will be available as we get closer, check back here!


Black Gentoo with silver PVD weight

E White with sandblasted brass

GMK Rudy on black Gentoo with sandblasted brass

GMK Botanical on on green Gentoo with sandblasted brass

Layout options


Board Features
Gasket mount.
6 Degree typing angle.
Side weight accents.
Daughter board, centered USB.
QMK and VIA compatible.
[Bottom/Internal] Brass Weight.

Details
Buyers will be able to pick the case color followed by the weight finishing rather than in preconfigured arrangements. Current pricing is final for Cannon Keys and other vendors pricing will be available closer to the time of the group buy due to fluctuations in currency exchange rates.

While currently unknown schedules keep an eye out for build streams!
Apiary https://www.twitch.tv/apiarykeyboards
Lightning https://www.twitch.tv/lightningkeyboards
Lulzthax https://www.twitch.tv/lulzthax

Base configuration: $450 USD
Aluminum plate, Sandblasted Brass Weights, Solder PCB (with ISO support), Case Foam, and Plate Foam.

Case color options:
Black
E-White
Forest Green
Navy Blue

PVD Weight upgrade: (+$100)
Silver nickel plated brass
Graphite nickel plated brass

Add ons:
Hotswap PCB Upgrade             $10
PVD Weight Upgrade               $100

FR4 Plate                               $25
Aluminum Plate                      $45
Carbon Fiber Plate                  $45
Polycarbonate Plate                 $45
Brass Plate                             $55
Extra Gaskets                         $5
Solder PCB                             $50
Hotswap PCB*                        $60
Daughterboard Kit                   $5
Extra Feet                               $3
Extra Foam                             $10
Extra Sandblasted Weight Set   $75
Extra PVD Weight Set              $175
PE Foam                                 $4

*Hotswap PCB will be fixed to this layout: https://imgur.com/Jdt26ji


« Last Edit: Sat, 28 May 2022, 10:22:24 by Abec13 »
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Approved :thumb:

Offline Eoen

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Hype! GLWGB, excited to try to snag one.

Super excited for this! Can you explain the difference between the standard weight and upgraded weight?

Offline Abec13

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Super excited for this! Can you explain the difference between the standard weight and upgraded weight?

Great question. The standard weight configuration is a sandblasted brass with antioxidation coating which you can see on the white board, the "upgraded weight" is nickel-plated and polish finish which you can see an example of in the photo showing the internal weight on a black board. That is specifically the silver, while there is also a graphite option. A comparison photo will be posted when I have both of those options back in hand. At the moment, the silver is out with a streamer!
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 May 2022, 12:42:06 by Abec13 »
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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Offline less_blank

  • Posts: 74
Super excited for this! Can you explain the difference between the standard weight and upgraded weight?

Great question. The standard weight configuration is a sandblasted brass with antioxidation coating which you can see on the white board, the "upgraded weight" is nickel-plated and polish finish which you can see an example of in the photo showing the internal weight on a black board. That is specifically the silver, while there is also a graphite option. A comparison photo will be posted when I have both of those options back in hand. At the moment, the silver is out with a streamer!
That is silver pvd in the picture? Interesting, it looks gold. Definitely would be interested in seeing the graphite option.

Offline 8um8lebee

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Yay finally!! Would love to see more proto sample photos though!

Offline Abec13

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Super excited for this! Can you explain the difference between the standard weight and upgraded weight?

Great question. The standard weight configuration is a sandblasted brass with antioxidation coating which you can see on the white board, the "upgraded weight" is nickel-plated and polish finish which you can see an example of in the photo showing the internal weight on a black board. That is specifically the silver, while there is also a graphite option. A comparison photo will be posted when I have both of those options back in hand. At the moment, the silver is out with a streamer!
That is silver pvd in the picture? Interesting, it looks gold. Definitely would be interested in seeing the graphite option.

Yay finally!! Would love to see more proto sample photos though!

Unfortunately I did not have both in hand at the same time for more than 30 minutes but the boards will be back to me soon for me to grab some pictures! I will be posting more as we get closer.
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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Offline LaserCrafter

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i'm so sorry but i gotta say something about the amogus on the bottom
Keyboard Collection: Thermal Seq2, Orion v2.5, Orion v3, Realforce 87u, Viper v3, NMB RT8756CGR, Unicorn x Legend, Das 2, TC-V3

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Offline Abec13

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Super excited for this! Can you explain the difference between the standard weight and upgraded weight?

Great question. The standard weight configuration is a sandblasted brass with antioxidation coating which you can see on the white board, the "upgraded weight" is nickel-plated and polish finish which you can see an example of in the photo showing the internal weight on a black board. That is specifically the silver, while there is also a graphite option. A comparison photo will be posted when I have both of those options back in hand. At the moment, the silver is out with a streamer!

That is silver pvd in the picture? Interesting, it looks gold. Definitely would be interested in seeing the graphite option.

Yay finally!! Would love to see more proto sample photos though!

Here is a comparison of Silver PVD vs the Graphite PVD
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
[/url]

Offline superjackie

  • Posts: 76
I assume the white case is with the silver pvd and  black case has graphite, right?

What are the dimensions of this board? Could you post the layout/picture for hotswap pcb?

Offline Abec13

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I assume the white case is with the silver pvd and  black case has graphite, right?

What are the dimensions of this board? Could you post the layout/picture for hotswap pcb?

That is correct, the black case is sporting the graphite PVD, the white case has Silver PVD.

Here is the layout for the hotswap PCB: https://imgur.com/Jdt26ji
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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Offline CookieFlow

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There is a picture of the inside of the weight that looks  like PVD Brass, but the outside is sandblasted?

I would have liked to see an option for Gold PVD upgrade on the outside of the weight and the sides.
I don't think the Graphite works that well on green/blue and Silver is a bit boring for me.
Sandblasted brass looks pretty dull imo, but would look amazing with a PVD finish.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 May 2022, 15:42:46 by CookieFlow »
       

Offline Rilow

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Any news on EU availability?

Offline 8um8lebee

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Here is a comparison of Silver PVD vs the Graphite PVD
Show Image


I think definitely silver pvd for me. Would you have more photos of the actual boards? Good to see the differences in the proto navy and the renders (?) shown in the IC. Marcia's stream of the navy one helped too. Specifically interested in see what the green actually looks like.

Offline Abec13

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Here is a comparison of Silver PVD vs the Graphite PVD
Show Image


I think definitely silver pvd for me. Would you have more photos of the actual boards? Good to see the differences in the proto navy and the renders (?) shown in the IC. Marcia's stream of the navy one helped too. Specifically interested in see what the green actually looks like.

Please check out my Instagram! I will be posting many photos there of the actual colors.
https://www.instagram.com/abec13.mk/
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
[/url]

Offline 8um8lebee

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Please check out my Instagram! I will be posting many photos there of the actual colors.
https://www.instagram.com/abec13.mk/

Yay will take a look! Are all the photos posted there so far renders or proto photos? Hopefully more photos come out before GB launch which is less than 2 days away!

Offline andyhechao

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haven't seen GB info from cn vendor, can I attend cannonkeys GB?or wait for the CN vendor

Offline Abec13

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Please check out my Instagram! I will be posting many photos there of the actual colors.
https://www.instagram.com/abec13.mk/

Yay will take a look! Are all the photos posted there so far renders or proto photos? Hopefully more photos come out before GB launch which is less than 2 days away!

Those are photos of the real deal! Vendors will be posting throughout as well as I more today.

haven't seen GB info from cn vendor, can I attend cannonkeys GB?or wait for the CN vendor

Worry not, Louis will have the page up by the time the group buy starts!
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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Offline raiNmeister

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why does CN and rest of asia have a cap of only 50? seems really little but I might be wrong about the demand in the region

Offline BattlePenguin

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Just ordered an E-White!! I've never been this excited for a keyboard before :D

Thank you for making this!

Offline Rilow

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When is EU starting sale?

Offline kazutrap

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Just snagged Navy, but black and e-white are lovely as well.

Offline Abec13

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I've been informed that ilumkb will be opening 12 hours later than scheduled.
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
[/url]

Offline KaosJ

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 30 May 2022, 14:59:28 »
How many units in EU and when?

May you show a closer picture of the navy one?




Offline Abec13

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 31 May 2022, 10:43:38 »
How many units in EU and when?

May you show a closer picture of the navy one?

Sorry, was gone for the holiday weekend!

EU has a limit of 35 units, and is open now.



Here's one for you!
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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Offline doodlebrain

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 31 May 2022, 12:39:13 »
Got me a blue with silver PVD! Thanks for doing this :) Recommendations for keycaps that will look great with these? I'm waiting on GMK Moomin (not sure if it'll look nice), but blue samurais will probably be safe hehe

Offline hellokevin

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 31 May 2022, 22:39:05 »
I've had to hold myself back from buying this because I'm hoping that with this trend, we'll see an 1800/full size design from you in a few years!

Offline Abec13

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 02 June 2022, 23:30:23 »
Got me a blue with silver PVD! Thanks for doing this :) Recommendations for keycaps that will look great with these? I'm waiting on GMK Moomin (not sure if it'll look nice), but blue samurais will probably be safe hehe

As I have it here, I really like GMK hammerhead dark
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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Offline redge

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 04 June 2022, 19:46:42 »
On Wednesday I was thinking about purchasing a PFU Realforce R2 as my first mechanical keyboard and by Friday I was ordering Albec13's Gentoo instead :)

Initially attracted to the navy case (and indeed the key caps that it was matched with in the photographs), I finally settled on forest green with brass sides (photo below). I ordered both printed circuit boards. I'm comfortable with soldering, but I'm curious about the alternative. Discussions about soldered versus socket circuit boards appear to be fairly polarised, and I'm interested in making a video about the subject, using my Gentoo as the context.

I'd appreciate suggestions on key caps that might go well with the case. I gather that a manufacturer called GMK is well-regarded, although most of the designers who have contracted with GMK appear to be talking about delivery in 2023. The caps in the Gentoo prototype photo below, except for the spacebar (GMK Hammerhead?), are GMK Botanical, which is sold out, including the re-issue. I would like to have switches and key caps in hand when the keyboard arrives, which I hope will be before the end of 2022.

Cheers
New Computer: Mac Studio
New Keyboard Oct/Dec: Abec13's Gentoo


286934-0

« Last Edit: Sun, 05 June 2022, 13:33:52 by redge »

Offline Abec13

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 05 June 2022, 15:13:31 »
On Wednesday I was thinking about purchasing a PFU Realforce R2 as my first mechanical keyboard and by Friday I was ordering Albec13's Gentoo instead :)

Initially attracted to the navy case (and indeed the key caps that it was matched with in the photographs), I finally settled on forest green with brass sides (photo below). I ordered both printed circuit boards. I'm comfortable with soldering, but I'm curious about the alternative. Discussions about soldered versus socket circuit boards appear to be fairly polarised, and I'm interested in making a video about the subject, using my Gentoo as the context.

I'd appreciate suggestions on key caps that might go well with the case. I gather that a manufacturer called GMK is well-regarded, although most of the designers who have contracted with GMK appear to be talking about delivery in 2023. The caps in the Gentoo prototype photo below, except for the spacebar (GMK Hammerhead?), are GMK Botanical, which is sold out, including the re-issue. I would like to have switches and key caps in hand when the keyboard arrives, which I hope will be before the end of 2022.

Cheers
New Computer: Mac Studio
New Keyboard Oct/Dec: Abec13's Gentoo



The keycaps on the board you pictured is GMK botanical, the spacebar is a TU3 spacebar from this link: https://www.originativeco.com/products/gmk-spacebars

While it is generally frowned upon by some, that keycap theme is offered by chinese(assumption) manufacturers in a few places it seems and would be an easy find googling for it.
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
[/url]

Offline redge

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 05 June 2022, 15:56:48 »

The keycaps on the board you pictured is GMK botanical, the spacebar is a TU3 spacebar from this link: https://www.originativeco.com/products/gmk-spacebars

While it is generally frowned upon by some, that keycap theme is offered by chinese(assumption) manufacturers in a few places it seems and would be an easy find googling for it.

Thanks very much. Great to know about those spacebars. Some of the keycap sets that I generally like could maybe use a dash of colour, and those spacebars are one way to accomplish that.

I'm quite open on keycaps for the Forest Green Gentoo and appreciate any suggestions people have. I just mentioned GMK Botanical because I was curious what you used in the photographs and figured that some others might be too. The set also helps illustrate the point in the previous sentence about availability.

[EDIT: I decided to order GMK Metropolis R2 keycaps, see post #35 below].

Cheers
Computer: Mac Studio
New Keyboard Oct/Dec: Abec13's Gentoo
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 June 2022, 14:44:27 by redge »

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 05 June 2022, 21:35:08 »
i remember the adelie as being both very good and very popular, nice to see it in a larger form factor, glwgb
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Offline redge

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 05 June 2022, 23:37:30 »
The photographs provide a rough idea of the case colours, but I'd like to get the Forest Green colour with more precision. Would it be possible to get a Pantone colour or similar? If it's handy, it would be nice to have a colour reference for the brass as well, but that's less important.

Thanks

Offline totalboardumb

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 06 June 2022, 10:21:33 »
Did gb orders hit MOQ?  I'm about to go semi crazy on keycaps for this and just want to get the green light.

Offline redge

  • Posts: 18
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 06 June 2022, 12:56:46 »
I've gone ahead and ordered keycaps. A German dealer, Oblotzky, has GMK Metropolis (round two) available, and it appears that it's likely to be delivered this fall. I ordered the subsets Midnight and Turnpike, which are used in the Metropolis rendering below. I also ordered Blocks, which has alternative spacebars matching the red/orange and teal in the image.

The Creative Director at Novel Keys, Ryan Onyon, designed Metropolis. He's a graphic designer by training and I think that it shows in the character sets. As someone who's interested in typography, one of the attractions for me is that Metropolis has symbols that will work well for all of the keys that have a function other than writing letters, numbers and punctuation. It's aesthetically elegant. For a Mac user, which I am, symbols also dispatch a keyboard terminology issue. Besides, what's not to like about a set whose name brings to mind one of my favourite films, Fritz Lang's Metropolis :)

The Metropolis Midnight subset is inherently reserved, but Turnpike provides a welcome opportunity to introduce a little colour. I also purchased Metropolis's alternative spacebars. However, it may turn out that these are best used with Metropolis's more gregarious "Base" set.

The next question is whether Metropolis will sit well with Gentoo's Forest Green or whether I should ask for a change in case colour.  Depending on what Forest Green means, the match may be very good ... or not :) That's why I asked about the Pantone colour a couple of posts up. Abec13 knows the four cases better than anyone, so of course I'm interested in any views that he has on the Forest Green case with these keycaps.


286958-0


Turnpike

286964-1


Blocks

286962-2
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 June 2022, 22:26:28 by redge »

Offline redge

  • Posts: 18
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 07 June 2022, 07:47:21 »
I'm about to go semi crazy on keycaps for this ...

What keycaps are you considering? Case colour?

Offline Abec13

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 07 June 2022, 12:57:18 »
The photographs provide a rough idea of the case colours, but I'd like to get the Forest Green colour with more precision. Would it be possible to get a Pantone colour or similar? If it's handy, it would be nice to have a colour reference for the brass as well, but that's less important.

Thanks

Unfortunately I don't have the green in hand anymore. The color of the case was roughly based on 5477C as a suggestion of what the factory should go for. I never really compared the pantone to the board itself after it was in hand because I had little expectation for them to hit the bull's eye. What's more important is that I like the green they gave me and that it is repeatable.
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
[/url]

Offline Abec13

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 07 June 2022, 12:58:30 »
Did gb orders hit MOQ?  I'm about to go semi crazy on keycaps for this and just want to get the green light.

Everything is going to get made, don't worry! Vendors are working on gathering their materials and submitting our orders soon. Thanks for your support on this one!
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
[/url]

Offline redge

  • Posts: 18
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 07 June 2022, 13:50:14 »
Unfortunately I don't have the green in hand anymore. The color of the case was roughly based on 5477C as a suggestion of what the factory should go for. I never really compared the pantone to the board itself after it was in hand because I had little expectation for them to hit the bull's eye. What's more important is that I like the green they gave me and that it is repeatable.

Thanks. Recognising Abec's point that this was guidance for the manufacturer, this screen capture is from Pantone's website. It's not far off Abec's photos in post #1:




From HexColorPedia:

286996-1
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 June 2022, 14:03:34 by redge »

Offline redge

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Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 07 June 2022, 15:07:02 »
Everything is going to get made... Vendors are working on gathering their materials and submitting our orders soon. Thanks for your support on this one!

This is great to hear. Now that I've seen the Pantone, read your comment and had another look at the photographs that you made, I'm also satisfied that the Forest Green case is going to work nicely with Metropolis Midnight/Turnpike. Black, white or navy might be more "neutral", but that's not what I'm looking for.

It's good that I'm still happy with the case colour, because I had a remarkable exchange with Cannon Keys earlier today. In your position, I'd have a word with my organiser/reseller about how it's treating the customers for my product.

I thought that I'd give Cannon a heads up that I might want a change in case colour. Cannon not only said that it wouldn't consider that, but told me that my only alternative, if I was unhappy with the colour, was to cancel my order entirely and pay a 5% penalty, in my case $27 on a $537 order. It characterised the position that this would put me in as an "inconvenience".

In a perverse way, it's good that this happened after I made my order, because if I'd known that this is how Cannon is treating customers for your design I wouldn't have ordered Gentoo in the first place.

I'm attaching a screen capture of my exchange with Cannon because it defies common sense, and basic principles of customer relations, to the point that it's hard to believe that it took place:

286998-0

In a subsequent e-mail, Cannon provided an "explanation" that, two business days after the group buy closed, makes no sense, and indeed makes for amusing reading in light of what your post above says about where the process is at. This isn't Cannon being unable to do make a colour change, it's Cannon refusing to do it, complete with a repetition of the assertion that for me this would be a mere "inconvenience":

287000-1

I did some research on your earlier projects and liked what I saw. Consequently, I'm going to continue with my order, although $27 will be a small price to pay if the exchange that I had today proves to be indicative of how Cannon treats its designers' customers. They should read a post that you made some time ago about maintaining a sense of perspective. Indeed, I think that Cannon's principals could learn a few things from reading Danny Meyer's Setting the Table: The Transforming Power of Hospitality in Business.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 June 2022, 20:20:20 by redge »

Offline doodlebrain

  • Posts: 2
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 08 June 2022, 07:53:01 »
Got me a blue with silver PVD! Thanks for doing this :) Recommendations for keycaps that will look great with these? I'm waiting on GMK Moomin (not sure if it'll look nice), but blue samurais will probably be safe hehe

As I have it here, I really like GMK hammerhead dark

Thanks! Managed to cop a set from Novelkeys <3 CAN'T WAIT!

Offline BillyShears

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  • Location: San Diego
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 08 June 2022, 14:04:34 »
Everything is going to get made... Vendors are working on gathering their materials and submitting our orders soon. Thanks for your support on this one!

This is great to hear. Now that I've seen the Pantone, read your comment and had another look at the photographs that you made, I'm also satisfied that the Forest Green case is going to work nicely with Metropolis Midnight/Turnpike. Black, white or navy might be more "neutral", but that's not what I'm looking for.

It's good that I'm still happy with the case colour, because I had a remarkable exchange with Cannon Keys earlier today. In your position, I'd have a word with my organiser/reseller about how it's treating the customers for my product.

I thought that I'd give Cannon a heads up that I might want a change in case colour. Cannon not only said that it wouldn't consider that, but told me that my only alternative, if I was unhappy with the colour, was to cancel my order entirely and pay a 5% penalty, in my case $27 on a $537 order. It characterised the position that this would put me in as an "inconvenience".

In a perverse way, it's good that this happened after I made my order, because if I'd known that this is how Cannon is treating customers for your design I wouldn't have ordered Gentoo in the first place.

I'm attaching a screen capture of my exchange with Cannon because it defies common sense, and basic principles of customer relations, to the point that it's hard to believe that it took place:


In a subsequent e-mail, Cannon provided an "explanation" that, two business days after the group buy closed, makes no sense, and indeed makes for amusing reading in light of what your post above says about where the process is at. This isn't Cannon being unable to do make a colour change, it's Cannon refusing to do it, complete with a repetition of the assertion that for me this would be a mere "inconvenience":


I did some research on your earlier projects and liked what I saw. Consequently, I'm going to continue with my order, although $27 will be a small price to pay if the exchange that I had today proves to be indicative of how Cannon treats its designers' customers. They should read a post that you made some time ago about maintaining a sense of perspective. Indeed, I think that Cannon's principals could learn a few things from reading Danny Meyer's Setting the Table: The Transforming Power of Hospitality in Business.

Should I even be engaging with this?  What is even going on here?  You entered into the group buy, you had to check that box knowing what it means to join a group buy, and these receipts are very reasonable and cordial.  This thread does not supersede the processes these middle men (vendors) along with Abec13 take to complete this project.  Let's play this game, for a sec, where we read between the lines of the reply of the mentioned vendor, and assume they are purposely not changing the order.  This vendor, indeed, could have already submitted their order and OP is talking about other vendors that still have yet too.  Beyond this point...it's a group buy...this is not Amazon.  There is risk for all parties in these transactions, and the vendors do what they do to mitigate this risk.  For you, you could have put in the order at the last minute rather than earlier in the hopes that you could change it later even though, I guess, your request is happening after the end of the group buy.

All in all, this just feels weird for so little.

To Abec13, I look forward to seeing your design come to life in my hands and to us that are willing to put up the money to see that happen in the first place.

Offline redge

  • Posts: 18
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 09 June 2022, 08:42:17 »
you had to check that box knowing what it means to join a group buy...

I'm not part of this hobby, and indeed didn't know that it even existed until late last week. I'm just a guy who has a new Mac computer and thought that I'd try using a keyboard that isn't made by my computer's manufacturer. As my first post in this thread says, between last Wednesday and the weekend I went from considering a PFU Realforce to ordering Abec13's Gentoo. I'm responding to your post because my response may be of interest to others who, like me, are not engaged in collecting keyboards. As will become apparent in this post, your comments don't exactly make me more at ease with this transaction.

We're coming from very different directions. I'm talking about common sense and good relations with current and potential future customers. However, I'm happy to address your desire to approach this legalistically. The terms at time of purchase don't say what you apparently think they say.

The box that you're talking about reads as follows: "I understand that this is a group buy or preorder product, and have read the shipping estimate and disclaimers below."

The "disclaimers below" say this:

Quote
This is a Group Buy, and Group Buy terms and conditions apply. The estimated date of delivery is just that - an estimate. Delays and setbacks may occur. Upon purchase, you will be charged immediately. And by purchasing this item, you acknowledge everything stated above. There are no refunds or cancellations for this order. For more information, check out our FAQ.

This is what the FAQ says:

287064-0

There is absolutely nothing in the foregoing that prevents the kind of request that I was considering. Interestingly, a change in colour would likely have been accompanied by a request to purchase case sides that would have added US$100 to the bill. Cannon has effectively said that it wouldn't entertain that either, and that my only option would have been to cancel the entire $537 preorder. If so, we're talking about a vendor that is in the business of reducing its, and Abec's, revenues. For me, that's a first.

On the related issue of cancellation, I also note that Cannon's position is rather murky. On cancellation, in one place it says that it will refund nothing and in another that it will refund 97% until the funds are sent to "the manufacturer", after which it will refund 95%. In its e-mail to me on Monday, Cannon said that it would refund 95%; although, with six vendors in various parts of the world, and a group purchase that ended at midnight on Saturday, it's rather unlikely that my funds had already been sent to "the manufacturer", whoever that is, by Monday morning, when my e-mail exchange with Cannon took place.

As I understand it, perhaps incorrectly, Cannon is the lead vendor, presumably not what is meant by "the manufacturer". Nevertheless, it appears to lack basic information on the product. I also tried to get the Pantone colour from Cannon, and got the response below. Unless one knows about this forum and thread, I have no idea how one is supposed to contact the designer, who in a thread about a previous project suggests that requests for information should generally go not to him, but to the vendor, in this case Cannon. I do thank Abec13 for his post above and comments about colour. It addressed my concern. On the other hand, my exchanges with Cannon leave me with the impression, reinforced by this email, that it just doesn't care about customer interest in design. In every exchange with Cannon, my design concern was characterised as an "inconvenience":

287070-1

Billy, I gather that you are a keyboard collector and that you think that Cannon's dealings with me are perfectly normal. That's cool, but if these are the expectations of people in your hobby, I'll be staying well away from the whole scene once this transaction is completed. There seems to be an attitude that I should regard paying $537 for a Gentoo keyboard as a privilege, an attitude that rubs me the wrong way. Your post mostly increases the attractiveness of another option: sticking with Ryan Onyon's Metropolis keycaps, and purchasing a keyboard that I can get now/this fall, not hopefully in Q4.

Cheers
« Last Edit: Thu, 09 June 2022, 12:07:36 by redge »

Offline wlwlwl

  • Posts: 3
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 12 June 2022, 08:45:26 »
It is very normal in GBs for vendors to refer questions to the GB starter, I don’t see anything wrong with that.

BTW where will updates be posted? Is there a Discord channel?
Very excited for this one  :)

Offline Rilow

  • Posts: 84
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 12 June 2022, 14:01:32 »
As everything else that is made to order, once you've ordered, you can't just change things up without any extra cost.

That being said, I'm super excited for this. Got blue with brass and FR4 plate.

Offline deletus87

  • Posts: 4
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 13 June 2022, 04:43:43 »
Go team forest green ! After seeing Lulzthrax's video on the green, im sold

Offline Abec13

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 367
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 22 July 2022, 00:09:04 »
It is very normal in GBs for vendors to refer questions to the GB starter, I don’t see anything wrong with that.

BTW where will updates be posted? Is there a Discord channel?
Very excited for this one  :)

Updates will be posted here, there is not a discord for this one. Sorry.
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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Offline totalboardumb

  • Posts: 3
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 14:43:48 »
It is very normal in GBs for vendors to refer questions to the GB starter, I don’t see anything wrong with that.

BTW where will updates be posted? Is there a Discord channel?
Very excited for this one  :)

Updates will be posted here, there is not a discord for this one. Sorry.

So what is the current update?  :)

Offline Abec13

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 367
Re: [GB] The Gentoo - A Penguin Themed 65% Keyboard | Currently LIVE
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 27 July 2022, 11:57:57 »
It is very normal in GBs for vendors to refer questions to the GB starter, I don’t see anything wrong with that.

BTW where will updates be posted? Is there a Discord channel?
Very excited for this one  :)

Updates will be posted here, there is not a discord for this one. Sorry.

So what is the current update?  :)

The orders have been submitted to manufacturers. The Q4 target is still the estimated delivery.
45-ATS | Adelie | Gentoo | Volcano 660 | Think 6.5 v2 | SKOG | 7V | Hello M0110
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