Author Topic: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes  (Read 19611 times)

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Offline Ustinj

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Derivative R1


This is the interest check for Derivative, a 60% keyboard. While there was an very small run of in-stock initial units (Round 0) during Fall 2021, there've been some design changes I've contemplated since then. I also wanted to share this IC in case some were looking to pick up the board - this is basically to say that there WILL be another run, and I hope to make it far more available than it currently is.

In addition, as a result of discussions with vendors, I would really like to get an idea for the demand of this project to ensure I'm able to make this as available as possible while still being within reason. So if you're interested in this project, make sure to fill out the extremely quick IC form (just check the box and submit - feedback is optional). There are also some key design changes that I would like feedback on, so please fill out form if interested!





Details


  • Layout: 60%, WK / WKL / HHKB
  • Mounting: Top / Relief / O-ring Gasket
  • Materials: Aluminum 6063, Brass / Copper?
  • Weight:
  • Typing: 6.5 degrees
  • Front Height: varies, 22.4mm EKH
  • Pricing: ~$4xx




GB / Sale Info



TBD - still working on some design changes. Will confirm more information with time & feedback.



Design Info


Whenever I sit down and begin a new design, I always look to incorporate at least one distinct feature that gives the keyboard a sense of identity. One of the biggest challenges in keyboard design for me is creating something that is unique / different, while keeping design cues intentional and avoiding too overbearing complexity. Derivative features a sleek and layered side profile with contrasting curves mirroring one another. These are some key details that were considered in Derivative's design.


On the top face is a long, sweeping front lip that bows gently outwards towards the center. It gives Derivative a defining feature visible from a working angle, while reducing the front height of the board ever so slightly.




One of the most common pet peeves that prevent me from incorporating a classic Cherry lip is the feeling that it interrupts the proportions of a side profile - often times, a 45-degree lip plopped onto the front of a keyboard design feels 'wrong' from a side angle. It's a sudden, disproportionate break in the otherwise straight leading lines on the side of a keyboard.

With Derivative, I've added an accompanying bevel (similar to Geon's awesome Frog) on the side profile that lines up directly with the front-lip to avoid that.


The board's side profile is basically a shelf design, curved downward into the table. Beneath the shelf, there's a secondary curve in the base that turns away from the table - the two opposing curves work nicely together. The secondary curve is not a result of a stepped side profile, but a direct transition into the large filleted corners.


To keep the design interesting, I opted to leave the top edge of the board free of any chamfers / bevels. As a result, the side bevels exposed the fillets from a side angle. I added a fillet along the entire rear edge to match it perfectly - this small detail explains the rounded rear edge, as some have questioned this decision before.


The R1 weight has been greatly simplified to reduce pricing, down to a one-piece weight (no polished logo insert) - so those who have an R0 unit and are interested in new colors, you can plop your 2-piece weight in a new case color to keep that special feel.


I'm not an engineer by day - so custom keyboard case design may be the one of the only things I dabble with where fractions of a millimeter make such a core difference between having a functional case and a complete headache.

The side profile of Derivative features a shelf design that cuts directly into the bottom of the case. In order to have a shelf design, there's a minimum thickness required for the shelf otherwise the side profile cuts  a hole straight into the bottom case (that is, if I want to keep the super thin side bezels). This became a careful, frustrating battle between three things - keyboard height, internal clearance beneath the PCB, and minimum shelf thickness to retain the 'shelf' side profile. If you've designed a keyboard, you know exactly what I'm talking about :D

In the end, I opted to give the modifier switches minimal internal clearance - this buys the case more material for the shelf to cut into. Towards the center, the case internals opens up and give additional room for the alphas to flex where it actually matters.




Mounting


Derivative's compact plate design allows for three practical mounting styles to choose from - classic top mount, a far more flexible relief mount (only viable on materials such as aluminum, carbon fiber, etc), and large o-ring gasket mount.

I anticipate the following plate materials will be offered:


  • Aluminum Half / Full
  • Carbon Fiber Half / Full
  • FR4?
  • Polycarbonate Half / Full
  • Polypropylene?



Colors

These colors will be much bolder than my typical preference. The design is a bit flashy so I think it deserves a striking red, the rest follow.




Media

Typing (full alu plate, 35a o-ring):

Typing (half alu plate, 35a o-ring):


Build stream from Lulzthax:




Prototypes for R1 arrived.

Purple is a bit too bright / vibrant for my eyes, so probably will have that toned down slightly.

Other two colors are as I hoped.














Links

« Last Edit: Tue, 12 July 2022, 00:01:05 by Ustinj »

Offline ankit

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:18:24 »
Really happy to see HHKB for the groupbuy. Derivative so lit.

Offline Rafa_n

  • Posts: 299
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:20:41 »
very nice, filled the IC form  :D

Offline Neely_12

  • Posts: 310
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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:21:35 »
You love to see it. Although I do think a copper weight would look a little nicer with some of these colors. Great job as always  :thumb:

Offline The0rigina1

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:23:33 »
PP good, hoping for more units, more is better

Offline unusuaL_

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:29:35 »
continuing to provide good designs, making them accessible is something i love to see  :thumb:

i'd like to see a weight of a different material if possible, e.g. copper as mentioned above
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:31:56 by unusuaL_ »
Currently typing on: imaginary tkl proto, hhkb

Offline Oogtug84

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:34:00 »
Yes.


I would really dig the orange cream or soft pink from play tray gb >.>
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:43:45 by Oogtug84 »



Offline themasterphi

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:41:02 »
Big fan of r0, was waiting for the more readily available gb later on. Can wait for it  :thumb:. One of my favorite 60% boards Ive typed on

Offline 7empest

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:44:02 »
Love the aesthetic of this board! Very happy to see it come to GB

Offline gotgoodiez

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 15:46:44 »
Love the new color choices, making the board more available and making it cheaper too

Offline linell

  • Posts: 112
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 16:04:45 »
what is relief mount  :cool:
bro this a **** set, just be thankful you even getting 1 base running fr

Offline mr_foggy

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 16:12:25 »
derivative so lit

Offline less_blank

  • Posts: 74
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 16:36:13 »
Yes.


I would really dig the orange cream or soft pink from play tray gb >.>

Second this, would love an orange cream.

Personally would prefer darker shades for a few of the colors (green, purple and red), but can respect if you want to keep things light and bright for this run.

Offline wencan008

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 16:38:05 »
Love my r0 and excited for the r1 gb, definitely 60% you shouldn't miss

Offline blight

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 16:54:53 »
Filled out the IC form. Very excited for this board and hope I am able to get a unit!

Offline LMarci

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 17:49:07 »
I liked the board a lot already and the new color options have managed to reinforce that. Can't wait!
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 June 2022, 17:55:21 by LMarci »

Offline Slayer77

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 18:27:07 »
Green..nice.

Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk


Offline paqji

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 18:32:39 »
i have been waiting for this, we love to see it!!! green is clean

Offline RachaXD

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 19:02:22 »
So fricken hyped for this. Down for the dark grey or blue personally. Can't wait to see this move to GB


Offline elvenmonster

  • Posts: 60
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 19:57:59 »
100% Joining this GB if I get the chance. Following you for a while and wanna say that your designs are the only ones that really intrigue me outside the Matrix sphere. Lot of original work here. GLWIC!

Offline wigol2506

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 20:09:22 »
Thanks for making this board more accessible!

Really like the sharp transition corner on the R0.

One of the most thoughtful designers ever, cannot wait to join this GB - hopefully we see an interesting 4th colour

GLWIC
F1-8x | F1-88 | F1-8K | Singa Ocelot R1 Prototype | Singa x TGR Unikorn R1 Prototype | Singa Kohaku | TGR Jane V2 CE | TGR Police | TGR x Lin Dolice | Lin Dolinger RE | LZ Phase | LZ XE | LZ erGhost | LZ erGhost CL | LZ REs | LZ CLSn | Palmetto60 | HHKB Pro 2 | RF 87u | HBCP | Ibis |

Offline Jacno

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 20:37:58 »
Really excited for this. The gray and the smooth transition bezel  :cool:  Hoping that there is a possibility for silver as well.

Offline Sicowa

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 20:52:58 »
Totally get the idea for the flashy colours, any chance we can kill the black or smth for that beige you had in r0  :-[
Collection: Khajit 60, Leopold FC980C, Pepper, Ex. Visa, Daedalus

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Offline gloomycloud

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 21:15:59 »
A picture which shows all the mounting points would be nice sir
HHKB Pro 2 || Polaris || Kei || Meridian || X60 V2

Offline bitbot

  • Posts: 15
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 21:29:42 »
Totally get the idea for the flashy colours, any chance we can kill the black or smth for that beige you had in r0  :-[

2nd this

Offline Ustinj

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 22:06:25 »
A picture which shows all the mounting points would be nice sir

Sorry - I tend to prefer uploading images in square aspect ratio because Geekhack seems to limit the maximum width of an image, so hopefully the following upload helps! It's either a 4-point relief mount, or 4/5-point top-mount.

what is relief mount  :cool:

This diagram should clarify the mounting points (other side of plate is a direct mirror), along with any confusion about what "relief" mount is. It's been called leaf-spring a few times but I just call it this - because it's essentially a top mount, supported by a giant relief cut that allows the plate to bend against long arms.



Totally get the idea for the flashy colours, any chance we can kill the black or smth for that beige you had in r0  :-[

The manufacturer let me know that they won't be doing that color code for me anymore because it created a good number of b-stocks - so that color won't return. Also usually for any R0 / small runs, I typically won't repeat the same colors or weight designs so that people still get that feeling of having an early bird edition :-)

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 446
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 29 June 2022, 22:11:01 »
Very interested. Will be following closely. Please don't kill grey/black though.

Offline sirieous

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 00:21:50 »
so hot, please consider dailyclack for oce vendor

Offline conternecticus

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 00:34:42 »
Purple looks great. Please consider vendor for South East Asia/China. GLWIC!

Offline ilikerustoo

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 01:31:59 »
Nice

Offline Nuap

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 02:42:03 »
Really like this, please consider an Australian vendor

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 22:27:26 »
It's not different, you've taken a bunch of features from different keyboards and combined them

camp bottom
corsa side
through weight
curved cherry lip (still not original)
frog chamfer

i like the font for your "designed by jjw" engraving

anyway have a good night from the treeleaf

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 446
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 23:10:37 »
It's not different, you've taken a bunch of features from different keyboards and combined them

camp bottom
corsa side
through weight
curved cherry lip (still not original)
frog chamfer

i like the font for your "designed by jjw" engraving

anyway have a good night from the treeleaf

Well.. I mean.. I think that's the point lol

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 23:14:20 »
finally

cherry lip

Offline mr_foggy

  • Posts: 331
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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 01 July 2022, 12:00:03 »
in no matter the price

Offline Visionaire

  • Posts: 613
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 01 July 2022, 21:32:07 »
Form filled

Offline treeleaf64

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    • treeleaf64
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 01 July 2022, 23:23:15 »
It's not different, you've taken a bunch of features from different keyboards and combined them

camp bottom
corsa side
through weight
curved cherry lip (still not original)
frog chamfer

i like the font for your "designed by jjw" engraving

anyway have a good night from the treeleaf

Well.. I mean.. I think that's the point lol



design cue != cut and paste

Offline Visionaire

  • Posts: 613
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 11 July 2022, 08:27:10 »
It's not different, you've taken a bunch of features from different keyboards and combined them

camp bottom
corsa side
through weight
curved cherry lip (still not original)
frog chamfer

i like the font for your "designed by jjw" engraving

anyway have a good night from the treeleaf

Well.. I mean.. I think that's the point lol



design cue != cut and paste

I think the similarities are intentional as is implied in the name of the product.


Offline Ustinj

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 371
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 11 July 2022, 23:54:56 »
Prototypes for R1 arrived.

Purple is a bit too bright / vibrant for my eyes, so probably will have that toned down slightly.

Other two colors are as I hoped.











Regarding the naming, you guys are on the dot - I named it Derivative because new boards are usually variations of existing boards. I can agree with some of the similarities, but I don't see a Corsa side.. though if I'm honest, I believe a keyboard is almost always going to have some basic atomic features that you can't avoid, for the sole fact that it's a keyboard. No matter how you break things down, some things are going to remain constant... like the fact that most are shaped like rectangles, have a weight, have handles to pick it up by, etc - that aren't super specific to one particular board; on the other hand some beautiful cues have clear originators, like the Jane's iconic backplate, the super clean Koala curve, etc.


Offline kidpid

  • Posts: 188
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 12 July 2022, 10:28:15 »
Damn that's a really nice red!

Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 15 July 2022, 08:56:51 »
glad to see a GB, I'm in!

Offline flying1911

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 18 July 2022, 00:35:08 »
so glad to see this fantastic design being made more available. It's time to build my R0  :thumb:
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Offline infinitum

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Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 18 July 2022, 06:42:04 »
simply can't wait for r1!


Offline Homiezoned

  • Posts: 31
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 18 July 2022, 11:39:06 »
I need

Offline scoopbb

  • Posts: 271
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 18 July 2022, 14:26:47 »
will plate files become available after gb?

Offline Ustinj

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 371
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 05 August 2022, 03:10:49 »
will plate files become available after gb?

Yes  :thumb:

Offline scoopbb

  • Posts: 271
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 05 August 2022, 12:09:57 »

Offline HOiYA

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 06 August 2022, 00:23:35 »
Any details on the PCB? Will there be a hotswap option? I'm asking as my soldering skills are non-existant!  :))

Offline milka158

  • Posts: 43
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 13 August 2022, 12:08:40 »
gb asap pls

Offline milka158

  • Posts: 43
Re: [IC] Derivative R1 | 60% o-ring, top, relief mount | v1 Prototypes
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 29 August 2022, 15:46:39 »
Would you consider offering the R0 weight as an add-on or an upgrade option?