what the hell is wrong with the french?

[patrickgeekhack]

...Not to mention how difficult it is to get fired in your country.

This should not be seen as being always bad. I actually like this because in Canada, I have seen so many people get fired because someone did not like them. Or worse, people are attracted to a job only to get fired within a month because the department manager was wrong in his calculations.

[patrickgeekhack]

The other thing that I admire though is the courage of the French to go on the streets and protest. I wonder if Canadians will be willing to do the same.

[pikapika]

You do that with fewer restrictions on capitalism that limit growth.

that's ideologic bull****bingo, even in countries that have few restrictions, you get a high unemployement. the only thing you get with deregulation is more poverty

My comments were regarding the way I've known France to be in the past 10 - 15 years or so, so my points still hold true. If you think differently, then explain how they don't.

well explain me how french laws are so restrictive

[maclover]

what is wrong with the french? they aren't spineless cowards who aren't afraid to stand up to politicians

[keyboardlover]

This should not be seen as being always bad. I actually like this because in Canada, I have seen so many people get fired because someone did not like them. Or worse, people are attracted to a job only to get fired within a month because the department manager was wrong in his calculations.

Well, at least in the US you can sue for wrongful termination.

that's ideologic bull****bingo, even in countries that have few restrictions, you get a high unemployement. the only thing you get with deregulation is more poverty

Lol "ideologic bull****bingo" is an awesome phrase. I'm not talking about deregulation, I'm talking about less regulation. Like we do in the states. If you don't know anyone who has lived here, you probably don't know what I'm talking about. We have more employment opportunities in general than in the EU (at least in the IT sector). Because our companies aren't so heavily controlled by the government.

well explain me how french laws are so restrictive

I already explained that from a high-level overview. I'm not going to go into all the ins and outs of your laws. You can use Google for that.

[Senor_Cartmenez]

You do that with fewer restrictions on capitalism that limit growth.

You are so right keyboardlover.
That worked GRRRRREAT with the Lehman Brothers and basically the entire banking, insurance, rating sector of our western economies.

FEWER RESTRICTIONS!!! WE ALL LEARNED SO MUCH!

/Edit
oh my god keyboardlover, I just read your last post too.

DUDE!

America is IN NO WAY a model for keeping unemployment low! You guys are way ****ed up in terms of unemployment.

And how can you still be proud of that whole "we regulate less, because that means more freedom" bull**** when we have all seen what regulating too little and giving the greedy corps free reign leads to in the last 2 years?

Honestly, the French seem more and more sympathetic to me. Rioting or not, at least they recognize that it's time to be pissed off, rather than listening to the banksters and saying "everything was alright, couldn't be avoided, if you play roulette with other people's money you are sometimes bound to hit a loosing streek. Stop playing Roulette with other people's money you say? buuuul****! We need to be allowed to play poker and black jack too! How else are we supposed to balance out our losses from roulette the next time we hit a loosing streaj? Honest work you say? Not cheating and not gambling so much you say? This whole finance, insurance and rating stuff is obviously going way over your head, just leave it to us, the professionals."

Do you work or have close acquaintances/family working in the banking industry keyboardlover? Because this kind of ignorance towards the failed gambling spree of the finance sector and the subsequent consequence of having the necessity for more regulation I have only found from banksters themselves.

[keyboardlover]

You are so right keyboardlover.
That worked GRRRRREAT with the Lehman Brothers and basically the entire banking, insurance, rating sector of our western economies.

I'm not saying there aren't risks. It's about the right restrictions.
We're still growing and learning how to do it exactly right. We're not perfect.

...but we're still doing it better than the EU. IMHO.

Edit: to respond to your last bit, I actually got my current job, which is in the financial sector in the midst of this whole crisis. We're very competitive and successful. I'm not a bankster though. I write software. Compare software opportunities in the US compared to Europe. I have. Guess what? We have more jobs than you.

[patrickgeekhack]

well explain me how french laws are so restrictive

Going off topic a bit.

Pikapika, could you please tell me if the law is taught in high school (at least the basic stuffs like CDD and CDI) ? I have a BTS and therefore had to study some of the French labour laws.


Back on track

I think we should not forget that the French Revolution spirit has never died and it's almost like it's in the French DNA. The same can be said probably about Americans who in general are willing to take more risks than Canadians, who in turn are usually seen as being more cautious (and sometimes miss good opportunities because of their fear of risks).

[Senor_Cartmenez]

Back on track

I think we should not forget that the French Revolution spirit has never died and it's almost like it's in the French DNA. The same can be said probably about Americans who in general are willing to take more risks than Canadians, who in turn are usually seen as being more cautious (and sometimes miss good opportunities because of their fear of risks).

Right,

same goes for the Americans being gun nuts. As a nation they just haven't forgotten how handy it can be to have a gun at home if the King of England decides to show up again. History folks

[Senor_Cartmenez]

I think we can close this thread for good now.

All it was missing was a good lego pic. Done.

[pikapika]

Well, at least in the US you can sue for wrongful termination.

same here

Lol "ideologic bull****bingo" is an awesome phrase. I'm not talking about deregulation, I'm talking about less regulation. Like we do in the states. If you don't know anyone who has lived here, you probably don't know what I'm talking about. We have more employment opportunities in general than in the EU (at least in the IT sector). Because our companies aren't so heavily controlled by the government.

the last things i read about employement in US was not much appealing

I already explained that from a high-level overview. I'm not going to go into all the ins and outs of your laws. You can use Google for that.

high-level ie nothing more than common ideas, i may be more informed than you about it

[instantkamera]

I think we should not forget that the French Revolution spirit has never died and it's almost like it's in the French DNA. The same can be said probably about Americans who in general are willing to take more risks than Canadians, who in turn are usually seen as being more cautious (and sometimes miss good opportunities because of their fear of risks).

There is a connection there for sure. Have you ever been to Quebec? They are by far the most vocal of all Canadian provinces when it comes to (perceived) threats on their freedom etc. The French here had their battles around the same time as the French Revolution (plains d'abraham, Acadian expulsion) that one could argue led to a very politically concious, and possibly unhappy, population in Quebec.

[pikapika]

Going off topic a bit.

Pikapika, could you please tell me if the law is taught in high school (at least the basic stuffs like CDD and CDI) ? I have a BTS and therefore had to study some of the French labour laws.

law and specially labour law are not taught at all in school (well high school does mean much to me, is it like universities ?). even after the bachelor, you can only learn about it if your speciality is close to law.

though people are quite informed, sometimes wrongly, when they begin to search jobs

[pikapika]

You are so right keyboardlover.
That worked GRRRRREAT with the Le
Honestly, the French seem more and more sympathetic to me. Rioting or not, at least they recognize that it's time to be pissed off, rather than listening to the banksters and saying "everything was alright, couldn't be avoided, if you play roulette with other people's money you are sometimes bound to hit a loosing streek.

i have sympathy for icelandic people who dared to send to hell the banks by vote, and refused to give back the money lost

[Senor_Cartmenez]

highschool is their secondary level education.

kind of the equivalent to your Bac.

Don't ask for the equivalent in the German education system, you'll get a headache. Sie Germans screwed up their educational system pretty good.

[keyboardlover]

the last things i read about employement in US was not much appealing

I live here. It's not as bad as people make it out to be in the media. The crisis hit the EU worse than it hit us.

Welly's threads never die.

Sigh...and I had nearly thought that the troll-baiting threads had died. While I agree with some of Welly's views, I find the troll-baiting and whining overall really annoying.

[Senor_Cartmenez]

i have sympathy for icelandic people who dared to send to hell the banks by vote, and refused to give back the money lost

yeah I found that pretty awesome too. caused quite the ruckus for such a small country.

@keyboardlover

no it didn't. Most americans just live on credit (leasing all kinds of **** and paying off one credit card with another). That means that the effects will hit you later than us. Still the whole card house started coming down in the US and way more US banks had to close than Europeans.

It's just that you media is even more screwed than hours so you don't know ****. Only the Chinese get less information from their government.

/Edit
the so called economic crisis didn't really affect the end consumers a lot by the way. It actually resulted in a lot of people buying a lot of stuff because prices dropped, thus kind of catching the recession before it went into full gear. However those "saving packages" that the governments made for the banksters are what we will feel in the future. In France they do so now already because the government wants to push their pensions back. In the US and other EU nations we will hear from our governments on that later. Probably some tax increases, better yet less public monies for families, schools, unnecessary **** like that. No biggy.

[keyboardlover]

@keyboardlover
no it didn't. Most americans just live on credit (leasing all kinds of **** and paying off one credit card with another). That means that the effects will hit you later than us. Still the whole card house started coming down in the US and way more US banks had to close than Europeans.
It's just that you media is even more screwed than hours so you don't know ****. Only the Chinese get less information from their government.

Apparently I know more than you, as none of what you said above makes an ounce of sense. The crisis hit the EU after it hit us. And it hit you harder. I don't pay attention to the media. I live this stuff. I work and am friends with people all over the world, including in Germany (I think that's where you live right?) I don't need information from our media or our government (and there is a difference). I get it from people who actually live and work in several continents.

[pikapika]

Apparently I know more than you, as none of what you said above makes an ounce of sense. The crisis hit the EU after it hit us. And it hit you harder. I don't pay attention to the media. I live this stuff. I work and am friends with people all over the world, including in Germany (I think that's where you live right?) I don't need information from our media or our government (and there is a difference). I get it from people who actually live and work in several continents.

seems like you know better than us, EU people, how things are going here

you should be candidate for presidence in france

[keyboardlover]

seems like you know better than us, EU people, how things are going here
you should be candidate for presidence in france

I agree, but although I like a lot of your food better I just prefer to live here
(For reasons I already mentioned).

[itlnstln]

I would love to live in Canada if it weren't for the snow.  I hate snow.

[patrickgeekhack]

I would love to live in Canada if it weren't for the snow.  I hate snow.

We sure get a lot of snow here.

[patrickgeekhack]

Constitution supports the right to bear arms.

If I am not mistaken, the French constitution supports the right to strike. I just don't know what the Canadian constitution support though...sad.

[patrickgeekhack]

There is a connection there for sure. Have you ever been to Quebec? They are by far the most vocal of all Canadian provinces when it comes to (perceived) threats on their freedom etc. The French here had their battles around the same time as the French Revolution (plains d'abraham, Acadian expulsion) that one could argue led to a very politically concious, and possibly unhappy, population in Quebec.

I have been to Quebec, but have not spent enough time to get that feeling. I would essentially go there, do my work, and leave.

[keyboardlover]

Only part of Canada I've been to is Quebec (including Montreal), but that was more than 10 years ago. I loved it though; one of the best trips of my life. Really cool city...unfortunately I was a dumb kid and didn't take any photos

[instantkamera]

Yeah Montreal is great to visit ... not my favourite place to live though. To be fair, I hate big cities.

[keyboardlover]

Yeah Montreal is great to visit ... not my favourite place to live though. To be fair, I hate big cities.

I wouldn't want to live in one, but they can definitely be fun to visit. Another favorite of mine is Chicago. I went last year and I want to go back.

[itlnstln]

ItlnStln.  I'd wait to move until Global Warming accelerates a bit more.

That IS a lot of snow.

I'm going to start emptying aerosol cans into the atmosphere right now.

[wellington1869]

Yeah Montreal is great to visit ... not my favourite place to live though. To be fair, I hate big cities.

montreal is pretty.  why wouldnt u want to live there tho? just curious.

[elservo]

I hate big cities too.  An occasional visit to a large metropolitan area usually requires two or three weeks of outpatient therapy from a licensed Psychologist.  

Been watching The Battle of Algiers today.  Stupid French!  POOEY!

[wellington1869]

I hate big cities too.  An occasional visit to a large metropolitan area usually requires two or three weeks of outpatient therapy from a licensed Psychologist.  

Been watching The Battle of Algiers today.  Stupid French!  POOEY!

i'm sad to say i too rooted for the french in that movie. What the movie leaves out (obvious bias of course) is the brutality of the islamist 'rebels' and the decades long civil war between algerians (islamists vs socialists vs various dictatorial factions) after the french left that killed far more algerians than the french ever did, and far more brutally.  

Its not enough to be against the french or whoever if you dont have a better idea or if you promise to be far, far worse. And the algerians did not and still do not. Its not enough to cry oppression if your plan is to be a far worse oppressor yourself.

for all their problems (and yes remaining in algeria was terribly misguided on the part of the french), the french nevertheless had (and followed) rules of engagement far better than the 'rebels' ever did, and better than subsequent algerian dictatorships ever did. Thats just the truth of the matter.  

so what is a liberal to do in this scenario? Judge the french and the algerian's behaviour by the same set of standards? (yes, that is waht a liberal ought to do). instead, we usually judge them by different standards for some reason.

[elservo]

Glad you guys shared your takes with the movie.  I'm only 35 minutes in and was playing the devil's advocate given the bias shown in the first quarter of the film.  Very good, though.  Lots of tension, and I'm seeing the French side of things more and more as it goes along.  Rashomon is next on my list.

[elservo]

15 Million is a bit high for all of those red states.

[wellington1869]

Glad you guys shared your takes with the movie.  I'm only 35 minutes in and was playing the devil's advocate given the bias shown in the first quarter of the film.  Very good, though.  Lots of tension, and I'm seeing the French side of things more and more as it goes along.  Rashomon is next on my list.

well, the 'french point of view' is kind of a caricature in the movie, the director obviously blindly sympathetic to the 'rebels'. that said, yea, it was entertaining enough I guess.
(and yea, the french should have gotten out 20 years before they did, big mistake on their part. that doesnt excuse the idiocy of the 'rebel's though, most of which is not represented in the film, but is a part of algerian history).

re: rashomon, entertaining, tho i thought overrated for what it is. My fav kurosawa movie is probably Ran, which absolutely blew me away when i saw it.  Operatic, epic, like a musical performance, in the best way. Best battle scenes ever (only private ryan comes close, tho the two are very diff styles of course, but in terms of engrossing, hypnotic battle scenes, some of the best ever filmed I think).

[wellington1869]

Of course most of these are worthless Republican enclaves.

thats a good point. the repubs owe much to the french!

[elservo]

Some of these musical queues in Algiers remind me of a mondo movie.  This can't be a coincidence.

[keyboardlover]

thats a good point. the repubs owe much to the french!

Meh. I'm conservative and don't live in one of those states. To win we must diversify!

[wellington1869]

since this is a french thread, let me also say that I dont know any french movies that i've ever liked. Too indulgent, self-absorbed. What passes for french 'artsy'. Amelie was just silly (tho, yea, i'd "do" her). I'm trying to think of any french movie i've liked. "The 500 blows" was sort of interesting but like all french movies, ultimately pointless. I think that was the last 'classic' french movie i saw on netflix.

[wellington1869]

I have a lot of respect for modern japanese artists.  Here's one of the battle scenes from Ran. Epic storytelling. It takes its time and by the end of it youre its *****. The way stories should be told.

fs=1&hl=en_US">

[microsoft windows]

since this is a french thread, let me also say that I dont know any french movies that i've ever liked. Too indulgent, self-absorbed. What passes for french 'artsy'. Amelie was just silly (tho, yea, i'd "do" her). I'm trying to think of any french movie i've liked. "The 500 blows" was sort of interesting but like all french movies, ultimately pointless. I think that was the last 'classic' french movie i saw on netflix.

France really doesn't do much these days but make cheese and wine, and go on strike.

[patrickgeekhack]

since this is a french thread, let me also say that I dont know any french movies that i've ever liked. Too indulgent, self-absorbed. What passes for french 'artsy'. Amelie was just silly (tho, yea, i'd "do" her). I'm trying to think of any french movie i've liked. "The 500 blows" was sort of interesting but like all french movies, ultimately pointless. I think that was the last 'classic' french movie i saw on netflix.

Welly, you need to watch "Entre les murs" which is a very nice movie actually, but best appreciated in French though. I think it was nominated for best foreign movie Oscar.

I guess most of you have by now know that I more of a pro-French :-) What can I say, I like the language, the food, the sites and the people. And the fact that I am fluent in both English and French makes it easier for me to get a job in Canada.

There are many things I wish we had similar to what they have in France, starting with more vacation days. Starting a job with only 10 vacation days sucks.

French pastries:


One of my favourite places in France:


Some more:

[keyboardlover]

Starting a job with only 10 vacation days sucks.

I agree. That's why you should do what I did: tell them you require 15.

Guess what? It worked.

[instantkamera]

Welly, you need to watch "Entre les murs" which is a very nice movie actually, but best appreciated in French though. I think it was nominated for best foreign movie Oscar.

+1, my wife is a teacher, this was one of he favourite films that year.

- I have mentioned it before, but 'tis the season so I have to recommend Delicatessen. You could also check out martyrs as well with is an odd but good french horror/thriller/semi-gore (it was filmed in Quebec, but is set in France if I recall correctly).

- Paris, je t'aime was ****ing awesome.

- bleu, blanc et rouge (three colors: blue, red, white) by Polish director Krzysztof Kieslowski (he did the dekalog) is actually almost entirely French and, of course, is about French culture and society.

I could go on. There is plenty of good "French" film, although not always French from France I guess.

Oh, watch "Polytechnique", a very well well done film based on the Montreal massacre. you can watch in English or French (it's not dubbed, they shot it in both languages).

[Rajagra]

Where, oh where, are the beautiful French actresses to take over from Catherine Deneuve and Brigitte Bardot?

Man I love Catherine Deneuve. Hard to believe she was making films before I was born.

[instantkamera]

Where, oh where, are the beautiful French actresses to take over from Catherine Deneuve and Brigitte Bardot?

Man I love Catherine Deneuve. Hard to believe she was making films before I was born.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliette_Binoche

[wellington1869]

Welly, you need to watch "Entre les murs"

- I have mentioned it before, but 'tis the season so I have to recommend Delicatessen. You could also check out martyrs as well with is an odd but good french horror/thriller/semi-gore (it was filmed in Quebec, but is set in France if I recall correctly).

- Paris, je t'aime was ****ing awesome.

- bleu, blanc et rouge (three colors: blue, red, white) by Polish director Krzysztof Kieslowski (he did the dekalog) is actually almost entirely French and, of course, is about French culture and society.

...
Oh, watch "Polytechnique", a very well well done film based on the Montreal massacre. you can watch in English or French (it's not dubbed, they shot it in both languages).

alright, i'll check them out. I'm always willing to give them one more chance. I did see blue/red/white, but i have to say, to be honest, to me that series is an example of incomprehensible self-absorption thats typical of so much french artsy cinema.  I'm sure french people loved it, but as an american whatever its deep meanings were went right over my head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliette_Binoche

the chic in amelie/vatican-conspiracy-movies is pretty in that dainty french way.

[wellington1869]

as for the beauty of paris, patrickgeek, i agree its a beautiful city, and i love studying french history, its history is so crucial to both western civ in general and of course european civ --- but thats exactly what I mean that the french people dont appreciate what they have. They simply spasmodically go out and destroy their country periodically and habitually, it seems.

Their intellectuals destroy their culture from within with mindless nihilism, their mobs of ordinary people provide the violence.  When they're not running away from the germans they're attacking their own government.

Seriously, french intellectual and political culture is seriously problematic, not just for france, but also for european and hence american liberalism (of which france (sometimes rightly) sees itself as being the vanguard of).

[Lanx]

I have a lot of respect for modern japanese artists.  Here's one of the battle scenes from Ran. Epic storytelling. It takes its time and by the end of it youre its *****. The way stories should be told.

fs=1&hl=en_US">

[patrickgeekhack]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliette_Binoche

Judith Godreche?

[patrickgeekhack]

- Paris, je t'aime was ****ing awesome.

Is it about the guy who is dying and spend his time watching people live? I have one called "Paris" but have not watched it yet. Actually, Paris was in the theatres in the States.