Author Topic: Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?  (Read 11529 times)

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Offline microsoft windows

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Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 15:16:23 »
One of my old Dells' Windows installation was getting old and bogged-down. So I got all my documents off it, and decided to install Windows 2000 this time. I usually ran W2k on my Pentium III systems, but I decided to try it on this machine, which has 2GB of RAM and a 2.2Ghz Pentium 4.

So far, it runs amazingly fast. It never crashes and starts up in less than 30 seconds (Note: This is in a home computing situation, not a business with a more complex network security policy), and takes less than a second to completely shut down properly (not unplugging the thing). The only problem it had was I had to install over 100 updates.

It's truly a shame that Microsoft has discontinued security updates for Windows 2000. It really is a good operating system.

Lower-resolution screen shot of this fresh new installation of Windows.

Anybody else here wipe their computers every once in a while? If so, what do you all install on them? Got any good experiences to share?
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Offline instantkamera

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Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 15:44:51 »
nope, don't run windows, don't have to arbitrarily reinstall the OS. ALso, I would hope that OS starts fast on that hardware, it doesn't really look like you are running much on it, let alone at startup.
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Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #2 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 16:11:12 »
Yeah, I prefer to run an operating system that doesn't get bogged down every time you install software. I've installed about 20,000 pieces of software on my Amiga and it runs exactly as it does on a fresh install. (and starts up in 15 seconds)

Offline instantkamera

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« Reply #3 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 16:13:21 »
Quote from: mr_a500;239945
Yeah, I prefer to run an operating system that doesn't get bogged down every time you install software. I've installed about 20,000 pieces of software on my Amiga and it runs exactly as it does on a fresh install. (and starts up in 15 seconds)


I gotta get me one of those. anything available cheaply in canada?
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #4 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 16:18:19 »
Quote from: mr_a500;239945
Yeah, I prefer to run an operating system that doesn't get bogged down every time you install software. I've installed about 20,000 pieces of software on my Amiga and it runs exactly as it does on a fresh install. (and starts up in 15 seconds)


My Windows installations rarely get bogged down (I've had one installation I've regularly used for three years that still runs great), but I accidentally deleted some system files in this one, so I figured that I'd just wipe it and start over again.
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Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #5 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 16:30:36 »
Quote from: instantkamera;239947
I gotta get me one of those. anything available cheaply in canada?
Sure. An Amiga 500 shouldn't cost more than $25. You can occasionally find them for free. (3 of mine were free)
(Oh good... a chance to SPAM MW's thread....:wink: - 16-colour Amiga 500 screenshots follow)





(ugh! automatic scaling makes them chunky - expand to see them properly)

Remember - this is a 1987 computer, though. So to do what I do, you need an accelerator & hard-drive (which is rare) or a later "big box" Amiga - which is less rare than an A500 accelerator, but usually cost much more than an A500.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:10:31 by mr_a500 »

Offline instantkamera

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« Reply #6 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 16:37:31 »
Thanks, I have already started digging around, I have always been intrigued by your posts about your Amigas. Im surprised to see a couple things. AmigaOS is still being dev/updated and is still proprietary. Have you ever used AROS? I assume it runs on any x86 hardware ...
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Offline Zen

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Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 16:41:34 »
Make your own installation-CD with all the servicepacks and hotfixes
slipstreamed . You can also remove things you don't need, I've seen a
winXP installer taking up a bit more than 100MB !!
http://www.nliteos.com/

Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #8 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 16:41:40 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;239940
takes less than a second to completely shut down properly (not unplugging the thing).

I've never needed to reinstall Windows, but the fast shutdown of a squeaky clean fresh install is something I miss. It's just so absurd having to wait for a machine to shut down. Can you imagine having to wait for a TV to shutdown, or a toaster, or any other domestic appliance? Of course not. Yet we accept it in something as advanced as a PC.

Standby mode almost makes up for it, but not quite.

Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #9 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 16:56:00 »
Quote from: instantkamera;239954
Thanks, I have already started digging around, I have always been intrigued by your posts about your Amigas. Im surprised to see a couple things. AmigaOS is still being dev/updated and is still proprietary. Have you ever used AROS? I assume it runs on any x86 hardware ...


AROS is a disappointment (in my opinion). AmigaOS is being worked on, but not for "Classic" (meaning - "real") Amigas. There's also MorphOS. I'm waiting for Natami - an attempt to update the classic Amiga hardware. Who knows if it'll ever get finished.

Quote from: Rajagra;239956
I've never needed to reinstall Windows, but the fast shutdown of a squeaky clean fresh install is something I miss. It's just so absurd having to wait for a machine to shut down. Can you imagine having to wait for a TV to shutdown, or a toaster, or any other domestic appliance? Of course not. Yet we accept it in something as advanced as a PC.

Standby mode almost makes up for it, but not quite.


Exactly! Waiting for shutdown is so lame. The problem is that every modern operating system has adopted the stupid method of "saving on shutdown". Even little gadgets do it now. Why the hell can't settings be saved instantly??

Amiga doesn't have a "shutdown". I just flick the switch. Many times, I tried shutting Linux and Windows down that way (forgetting momentarily I was on a "modern" OS) and ended up with lost settings and corrupted registries.

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #10 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:30:47 »
In Windows 3.1, you just flick the switch too.

I like Windows 3.1 though. It's a fun old operating system. You can still get a lot done on it even though it's old enough to vote in the US.
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #11 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:33:58 »
Quote from: mr_a500;239953
16-colour Amiga 500 screenshots follow)


Not all those images are in 16 colors. Just to test, I opened up a few in paint and some looked a lot worse when I saved them as 16-color bitmaps while some others stayed the same.

Here's an example:

16-color version of the picture below.


Mr_a500's screen shot.

But that still looks like an interesting system to play around with. Have you gotten it on the Internet?
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:38:55 by microsoft windows »
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Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #12 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:41:57 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;239967
Not all those images are in 16 colors. Just to test, I opened up a few in paint and some looked a lot worse when I saved them as 16-color bitmaps while some others stayed the same.


Do you know why? The ones that appear to have more than 16 colours are actually screens in 8-colour mode - but the Amiga allows you to have "copper rainbows" (gradients), which are independent of the screen mode.

Quote from: microsoft windows;239967
But that still looks like an interesting system to play around with. Have you gotten it on the Internet?


It was my main internet computer up to 2008. Every forum post, every download/upload, every email, every eBay win was done using my Amiga 500.

Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #13 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:45:07 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;239967
Not all those images are in 16 colors. Just to test, I opened up a few in paint and some looked a lot worse when I saved them as 16-color bitmaps while some others stayed the same.

Here's an example:
Show Image

16-color version of the picture below.

Show Image

Mr_a500's screen shot.

But that still looks like an interesting system to play around with. Have you gotten it on the Internet?


Oh, you changed your post while I was posting. The image you saved is using the horrible Windows colour palette. Amiga (WB high-res screenmode, as seen here) can use 16 colours out of a palette of 4096 colours. It is not limited to the awful PC 16 colour palette.

Instead of just loading the image on 16-colour Windows, open it in a paint program that allows you do a colour count and you will see there are only 16 colours.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:48:54 by mr_a500 »

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #14 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:47:54 »
That's interesting how you used your Amiga 500 for internet browsing till '08. Did you know that I used an old Hewlett-Packard from 1995 from 1999 to 2008? 90 Mhz Pentium, 64MB of RAM. That machine was old, but good quality. It never even thought about dying in the nearly ten years I used it as my main machine (I ended up giving it away later).

I kind of regretted getting rid of it for a while, until I got my Gateway2000 P5-200, which has a 200Mhz Pentium and 64MB of RAM. Now I got that turned into a good Windows 3.1 machine which browses the 'net great.
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #15 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:49:10 »
Quote from: mr_a500;239970
Oh, you changed your post while I was posting. The image you saved is using the horrible Windows colour palette. That just demonstrates that Windows is much more limited than Amiga. Amiga (WB high-res screenmode, as seen here) can use 16 colours out of a palette of 4096 colours.

Instead of just loading the image on 16-colour Windows, open it in a paint program that allows you do a colour count and you will see there are only 16 colours.


Hmm. That's interesting. Some images stayed exactly the same though.

But I got to admit that Windows 3.1 doesn't have a top-of-the-line Paint program.
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Offline instantkamera

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« Reply #16 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:51:37 »
im inspired. I have a netbook that has just been rocking poopbuntu for ages, and tonight, it's time it joined the ranks of my arch boxes. bbl
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Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #17 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:52:18 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;239972
[...]It never even thought about dying in the nearly ten years I used it as my main machine [...]


Well, I'm glad to hear that. I hate when computers actively contemplate suicide.

Offline zefrer

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« Reply #18 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 19:34:53 »
Quote from: Zen;239955
Make your own installation-CD with all the servicepacks and hotfixes
slipstreamed . You can also remove things you don't need, I've seen a
winXP installer taking up a bit more than 100MB !!
http://www.nliteos.com/


I can create a copy of my existing installation to a new location and boot from there. In fact I have an image of my installation with a base set of packages on a DVD, I can directly copy that anywhere and boot from it.

Good luck with that installation CD stuff.

Offline NamelessPFG

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« Reply #19 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 22:03:15 »
Oh, I love a fresh Windows installation that's suddenly all speedy and responsive. Too bad it doesn't stay that way. (I think I'll start experimenting with XP Tablet on my E-295C now that I've slipstreamed the needed drivers, just to see if ATI's drivers will STOP SUCKING SO HARD like they do on Win7 64-bit, but I want a bigger hard drive first for a dual-boot and need to save up for one.)

As for AmigaOS, more OSes should follow in its footsteps (maybe save for the "no memory protection" part, anyway, even if they're trying to fix that with AmigaOS 4.2). Too bad modern computers aren't descended from Amigas because Commodore completely ****ed up their management and marketing, dooming that ahead-of-its-time computer to a niche.

(And as for even smaller niches: RISC OS. What does that bring to the table over all the other OSes, AmigaOS included?)

Offline kill will

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« Reply #20 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 22:45:52 »
Fckgw...
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Offline Daniel Beaver

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« Reply #21 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 23:43:55 »
I reinstall every few months. I wish I didn't have to, but I need it to run the applications I actually use.

On my main machine, quintuple-boot Windows 3.1, Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows 7 and Xubuntu. My Windows 3.1 and 98 installs boot nearly instantaneously (no more than 2 seconds from post to desktop), and are extremely snappy. I actually really like using my Windows 98 install, as a surprising amount of modern software runs just fine on it. And moreover, runs a lot better on it.

Modern software on modern systems runs slow as ****, a fact that is clearly evident on my own system. Running Office XP on my Windows 98 install is a much snappier experience than running Office 2007 on my Windows 7 install, and it provides nearly equivalent functionality.

And yet I use Windows 7 pretty much exclusively for daily use. Yes, it is slower than everything else when I have a lot of programs open. But the functionality is superior to other operating systems (for my own use), and it suffers from fewer weird ass problems.

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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #22 on: Fri, 29 October 2010, 03:35:36 »
Used to have to reinstall Windows XP every few months. I've had my current Windows 7 installation up for over a year now and it works just fine. Same would probably be true of my laptop,  but I had to do some mad partitioning schemes for other OSes, so it was easier for me to just wipe the Windows install.

Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #23 on: Fri, 29 October 2010, 10:37:19 »
Has anyone found one of those "cleaner" applications that works? You know, the ones that claim to tidy up the registry and delete junk files, etc. I only tried one once, it messed a few things up and I learned my lesson.

I just discovered Auslogics' Disk Defrag which makes a good (and free!) replacement for Vista's piss-poor effort. I might look into their other products.

Did you know that Vista's defrag doesn't even try to defrag files over 64MB by default? You can force it to do a half decent job by running it from the command line with -w and -v switches, but you still get no feedback during the several hours it takes do defrag a large disk. Can you stop it safely before it's finished? I was too scared to try, lol.

Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #24 on: Fri, 29 October 2010, 11:51:54 »
I remember I once used the "Cleansweep" cleaner. It ****ed things up so badly, I had to reinstall Windows then reinstall every application.

God, I hate the Windows Registry! Yeah, good design there - a huge monstrous convoluted mega-file which is essential to Windows, yet any application can puke data into it (without your knowledge or permission) anywhere they want - encrypted even - and you have to risk your entire computer installation if it isn't removed correctly. Not only that, but even nicely behaving (non-evil) applications are nearly impossible to back up because of all the crap that's stored there. (you can save individual registry keys or trees, but you have to find them first and do it manually)

To use a greenhouse analogy - application install on Amiga is like having each plant in its own pot, separate from the others (just the occasional root tangling on the bottom). If you don't want one plant, you just throw away the pot.

On Windows, it's like cramming every plant into the same pot, their roots intertwined, everything tangled and woven in, stems attached to other stems with elastic bands and leaves attached to the central stem with sticky tape. If you want to remove something, you've got to rip the ****ing thing out, losing leaves and root pieces in the process.

(...and do it enough times and the central plant, dying and missing leaves, says, "**** this, I'm out of here!"... and then you see a blue screen telling you to reinstall Windows)

Offline godly_music

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« Reply #25 on: Fri, 29 October 2010, 12:00:20 »
Quote from: Rajagra;240196
Has anyone found one of those "cleaner" applications that works? You know, the ones that claim to tidy up the registry and delete junk files, etc. I only tried one once, it messed a few things up and I learned my lesson.

I just discovered Auslogics' Disk Defrag which makes a good (and free!) replacement for Vista's piss-poor effort. I might look into their other products.


Auslogics is the snappiest defrag ever.

I've tried a whole bunch of cleaner applications, some on 32bit XP and some on Windows 7 64bit, the one I use now. Registry cleaners have contributed to ruining my OS at least thrice so far, with Windows being unable to boot to desktop. Wise Registry Cleaner is one of those. Can't remember the other tools, but they were recommended somewhere. You really have to tread lightly here. Assume that people don't know what they're talking about.

The only two products I've come to trust are CCleaner (freeware) which also cleans various kinds of junk files, and the registry cleaner in the TuneUp Utilities bundle. TuneUp is handy until you get to know better tools. It'll theme your desktop, but a patched uxtheme.dll works better. It'll optimize your TCP/IP for a certain bandwidth, but the speedguide.net optimizer is better. And so forth.

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #26 on: Fri, 29 October 2010, 13:45:44 »
Quote from: Rajagra;240196
Did you know that Vista's defrag doesn't even try to defrag files over 64MB by default? You can force it to do a half decent job by running it from the command line with -w and -v switches, but you still get no feedback during the several hours it takes do defrag a large disk. Can you stop it safely before it's finished? I was too scared to try, lol.
Anything that uses the Windows defrag API (which would be any modern-day defragmenter) should be safe in that regard.

Been using (or rather not using...) JkDefrag for quite a while. It's now called MyDefrag. The swiss army knife of defragmentation, basically.

I don't get the need for reinstalling Windows every so often. My system gets sluggish from all kinds of things, most of all having multiple Seamonkey windows with a bunch of tabs open, but that's all related to what I'm running. The only age-related annoyance is that installation of new devices can be very slow. But hey, that's a 5-year-old install.
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« Reply #27 on: Fri, 29 October 2010, 16:07:47 »
Quote from: mr_a500;239969
It was my main internet computer up to 2008. Every forum post, every download/upload, every email, every eBay win was done using my Amiga 500.

An accelerator and the other goodies are quite some cheating. :-)
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« Last Edit: Sat, 05 February 2011, 14:09:57 by woody »

Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #28 on: Fri, 29 October 2010, 17:47:23 »
Quote from: woody;240284
An accelerator and the other goodies are quite some cheating. :-)

Well... only a little bit. :wink:

The accelerator has a 68020. That chip was released in 1984. It has Amiga 3.0 ROMs - which were released in 1992. There's no graphics card. It's OCS graphics, which was unchanged from the original Amiga release in 1985.

I think it's impressive that I can emulate 1998 MacOS 8.1 on it - and it runs at nearly the same speed as on my Mac Classic II.

« Last Edit: Fri, 29 October 2010, 18:14:01 by mr_a500 »

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #29 on: Sat, 30 October 2010, 10:16:41 »
Quote from: mr_a500;240315
Well... only a little bit. :wink:

The accelerator has a 68020. That chip was released in 1984. It has Amiga 3.0 ROMs - which were released in 1992. There's no graphics card. It's OCS graphics, which was unchanged from the original Amiga release in 1985.

I think it's impressive that I can emulate 1998 MacOS 8.1 on it - and it runs at nearly the same speed as on my Mac Classic II.

Show Image

Why shouldn't you be able to? If I remember correctly, it's a similar chip.
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Offline bigpook

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« Reply #30 on: Sat, 30 October 2010, 10:27:57 »
I like to run WinXP as a vm in virtualbox with linux as the host on my work laptop. Eventually, I will get around to installing a Win7 vm.
I use the snapshot feature and also keep multiple backups of my .Virtualbox folder just in case. Whats cool is when XP screws the pooch( and it will ) I no longer have to panic. If rolling back to a previous snapshot doesn't fix it, then one of my backups will. I have had to do this multiple times so far and it is a life saver.

I run a lot of apps that are provided by certain telecom companies. Some of them are less than stable and have hosed my system. The other techs have to send their machines back to corporate to be reimaged. In the interim  they are stuck using  a loaner machine which is less than ideal. I don't worry about having to try to clean the registry when it gets hosed either. I don't have the time or the inclination to clean/fix a broken windows install. Rolling back to a previous image is much easier.
I would dread having to go through the reinstall/reboot/reboot/reboot/reboot/reboot/reboot/reboot... to get my machine back to a functioning state.
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Offline mr_a500

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« Reply #31 on: Sat, 30 October 2010, 10:38:33 »
Quote from: timw4mail;240482
Why shouldn't you be able to? If I remember correctly, it's a similar chip.


Yes, same processor, but the Mac still needs to be emulated. You can't just install the OS directly, like installing different PC operating systems. Mac and Amiga had different architectures.

The fact that it's the same processor is a definite advantage though. When I emulate Windows 3.1 on my Amiga, it's unbelievably slow - because the processor has to be emulated too. (...and also because Windows is damn inefficient :wink:)

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #32 on: Sat, 30 October 2010, 12:42:44 »
The Mac Toolbox ROM also has to be hardware hacked, or emulated--*cough* pirated--for emulation on Amiga hardware. That usually means speed hit.
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Offline NamelessPFG

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« Reply #33 on: Sat, 30 October 2010, 21:46:03 »
That's another reason for wanting an old Amiga. I figure it would make a better Mac with ShapeShifter than an actual Mac II, not to mention the flat-out technical superiority of the Amiga and all when running its native software.

Now if I could just find one of the damn things in Georgia...(craigslist fails me right now)

Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #34 on: Sun, 31 October 2010, 14:26:09 »
Quote from: keyb_gr;240256
MyDefrag. The swiss army knife of defragmentation, basically.


Funny enough I already had that installed on one PC but hadn't tested it. The interface is very offputting.

But after some testing, I have to say that Mydefrag can work much better than Auslogics' Disk Defrag. Auslogic simply wouldn't do anything with big files on a 90% full disk. Mydefrag did the job (running the monthly data disk script.) This is probably as good as it gets without buying Perfectdisk.

So I'd say it's Auslogics' Disk Defrag for casual users, Mydefrag for anyone who wants a near-perfect job done.

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 31 October 2010, 15:05:00 »
Quote from: ripster;240835
Maximum PC did extensive defrag routine testing and concluded the built in Windows one (Vista or Win7) is just as good.


I regret not taking screenshots of the results.

The Vista defrag did a half-assed job, did not consolidate free disk space, was slow, gave little information, and gave no feedback at all while running. And to repeat, unless you tell it otherwise, it does not even try to defrag files over 64MB.

Apart from that it was just as good as the others.

Edit> Oh yes, Vista defrag also excludes large files from the few stats it reports. That could be why it appears to do a decent job. It lies to you.

Code: [Select]
C:\>defrag /?
...
Parameters:
Value         Description
-r            Performs partial defragmentation ([U]default[/U]). [U]Attempts to[/U]
              [U]consolidate only fragments smaller than 64 megabytes[/U] (MB).
-w            Performs full defragmentation. Attempts to consolidate all file
              fragments, regardless of their size.
-f            Forces defragmentation of the volume when free space is low.
-v            Specifies verbose mode. The defragmentation and analysis output
              is more detailed.

C:\>defrag c: -a -v
...
    Note: On NTFS volumes, [U]file fragments larger than 64MB are not included in[/U]
[U]the fragmentation statistics[/U]
« Last Edit: Sun, 31 October 2010, 16:22:14 by Rajagra »

Offline Rajagra

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Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 31 October 2010, 16:38:02 »
Well if it does fragment large files over 64MB, and it's only the large fragments over 64MB that it leaves alone, that isn't quite so bad. Shame they don't allow you to see so you can verify this.

The fact remains that Vista's defrag did not consolidate free disk space, even with those switches. I consider this a desirable part of the clean-up process, and I want the option to do it, even if it's only every 6 months or so. It isn't rocket science, it's simple sorting. MS could easily provide the option for those who want it. That they consider it "not worth spending the disk and CPU cycles to do it" sums up their attitude to their paying customers: "Do it our way, we don't care what you think."

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #37 on: Sun, 31 October 2010, 18:20:14 »
With Windows 2000, I usually run the defragmenter a few times and by then the hard disk's in pretty good shape.
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Offline unicomp

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« Reply #38 on: Sun, 31 October 2010, 19:12:08 »
Quote from: Rajagra;240851
sums up their attitude to their paying customers: "Do it our way, we don't care what you think."

That is basically what an operating system should do, to an extent. If you extend your argument then there is basically no place for an operating system that automates any part of the operation of the computer because I, as a paying customer, might want to customise this part of the operation.

I don't understand how people fail to see that a product which is as complicated as an operating system that must function on an enormous number of different systems is not going to satisfy every need of every customer. Also, if people think that there are operating systems that do a vastly better job than modern versions of Windows then I submit that they are probably wrong with respect to the average user. As far as I am concerned one either gets what one wants with an operating system by means of a complicated process of customisation and in-depth knowledge of how everything fits together; or one gets an approximation which is easily configured and is ready to go quickly. If you want ultimate customisation of every feature then you probably should avoid an operating system that is designed to cater to such a wide range of needs.

All these threads expressing lots of hate towards Windows are annoying. I haven't used Windows for a while however I see that it is an operating system that caters to the masses and seems to do a good job at it. It would be a valid complaint if Windows did not do something like support Flash because most people use this feature, however when power users argue about details of the operating system (in a non-comparative sense even) one does tend to feel that the discussion has lost course. What does whining about these minor problems achieve? Nothing; if you want a better product then find it or create it yourself. The market has no obligation to the consumer to produce a product that they personally find to be satisfactory, this is something that if everyone understood then there would logically be no arguments about these big products. I do not feel that I have this unwarranted sense of self importance, I don't come here and say that Firefox does not do something specific that I want it to do however not many other people would even think of wanting; this is because I understand that Mozilla have no obligation to me personally; they create whatever product that they wish to create and the consumers decide whether or not this product is suitable for the average person.

It literally angers me to see people arguing about these things. Why do people feel this sense of entitlement by virtue of their being prospective customers? If I am a consumer who is looking for a product I do not assume that there is a product to cater to my every whim, I assume that there is probably a product available that caters to a general set of requirements that are designed such that most customers would be satisfied with the product. This extends to operating systems. Windows is a product that caters to a huge number of people and it seems quite obvious to me that it does this job in a satisfactory manner.

If I purchase a toaster that has a timer whose discretisation does not enable me to prepare my toast in the very specific way which I would like then it is not the fault of the company who made the toaster for not catering to my specific whim. Even if my entire family likes their toast in precisely the same way, I accept that they are an insignificant part of the customer base. If they toaster is very popular and it is almost assumed that everyone uses one then it is still not the fault of the company; I can use their product and learn to enjoy toast cooked differently or use an alternative product that is much less popular and so my friends will not have the toast that they like when they visit or I could create my own toaster that caters to the needs of myself and my friends.

Yes, I understand that my whining about whining is perhaps ironic however I am dumbfounded by the apparent lack of understanding that people use in their arguments.
« Last Edit: Sun, 31 October 2010, 19:42:46 by unicomp »

Offline Rajagra

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Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 31 October 2010, 21:56:34 »
I wasn't criticising Windows. I was criticising Vista defrag. I was comparing it to other products - both earlier Widows defraggers and commercial and freeware options. Vista defrag gives the least feedback, is the only one I've seen that gives you zero idea of how far it has progressed, is the only one that actively avoids defragging certain [parts of] files, on my system it did not attempt to consolidate free space at all, and there were many files it didn't defrag when it could have done. It is by far the worst defragger (as opposed to OS enhancement) that I have ever seen. Maybe they should simply call it something else. File system garbage collector, or something like that.

Vista defrag may well be a good thing for users who've never heard of defragging (if they leave their PC on overnight so it actually kicks in.) But why dumb it down to such an extent that those who know what they want can't use it to do what is a very, very basic task?

And I did find a better product. MyDefrag does the job. Properly.

Edit> And the really crazy thing is MS went to the trouble of writing the defrag API which by all accounts is pretty bulletproof. Then they make a front end that bends over backwards to avoid doing what the product is called, while the competition put the API to good use. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: Sun, 31 October 2010, 22:03:21 by Rajagra »

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #40 on: Mon, 01 November 2010, 04:05:13 »
Quote from: unicomp;240878
tl;dr rant


Wherever did it go?
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 November 2010, 11:31:18 by ch_123 »

Offline zefrer

  • Posts: 299
Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 01 November 2010, 04:58:33 »
What he said :)

Offline alec

  • Posts: 35
Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 01 November 2010, 06:37:33 »
Having installed Win98, WinME and W2k on rather modern computers I, too, was amazed by how quick things could install, boot and start. And thats even compared to some of lightest flavors of Linux :(
The fresh installation part is not necessary once you learn how to take care of the system, not allow any garbage to install and keeping autorun processes and services in check.
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Offline Brian8bit

  • Posts: 156
Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 01 November 2010, 06:49:38 »
I really don't give a fiddlers **** what I, or any one else uses. Used everything from Amigas to ZX spectrums and everything inbetween and you know what? They're all cluster ****s of pros and cons.

As for loving a fresh windows install. Yes, it's nice. Like having a bath round about the time that even you get offended by the smell emanating from your crotch.

Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 1723
Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 01 November 2010, 08:25:01 »
Quote from: brian8bit;241033
I really don't give a fiddlers **** what I, or any one else uses. Used everything from Amigas to ZX spectrums and everything inbetween and you know what? They're all cluster ****s of pros and cons.

As for loving a fresh windows install. Yes, it's nice. Like having a bath round about the time that even you get offended by the smell emanating from your crotch.


lol, dude that is way too rational and you make too much sense. We can't have that here.
You are doing it  wrong, you need to pick one, any one, and defend it at the expense of all others.
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Offline ch_123

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Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 01 November 2010, 11:34:18 »
What happened to Unicomp's rant where he claimed we had no right to criticize Windows? I'm confused.

Offline 8_INCH_FLOPPY

  • Posts: 183
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« Reply #46 on: Mon, 01 November 2010, 15:47:30 »
Quote from: alec;241028
Having installed WinME...


You must now burn your computer.
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Offline alec

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« Reply #47 on: Tue, 02 November 2010, 07:35:01 »
Quote from: 8_INCH_FLOPPY;241253
You must now burn your computer.
Commonly recurring myth.
But WinME was nowere near as bad as Vista. Very usable once you turn unneeded bling off
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Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 02 November 2010, 07:43:40 »
Quote from: alec;241493
Commonly recurring myth.
But WinME was nowere near as bad as Vista. Very usable once you turn unneeded bling off


There was un-needed bling in ME?
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Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Don't you love a nice, new, fresh Windows installation?
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 02 November 2010, 07:58:33 »
Quote from: instantkamera;241499
There was un-needed bling in ME?


PC Health/System Restore.

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