Why do tenkeyless layouts dominate over "nav-less" designs?

[spremino]

From a functionality point of view, a nav-less layout keeps all keys. The numpad can already act as a navigation block, but the navigation block cannot replace the numpad.

The only explanations that come to my mind are that TKL is easier to manufacture as a cut-down full-size board, or that many users simply prefer a dedicated navigation cluster. I am curious what other reasons people see, thank you.

[Findecanor]

Unfortunately, it is rare that programs support key combinations with modifier keys on the numpad.
So you can't always select text and/or jump to next/previous word or top/bottom of document using the numpad the same way as with the dedicated arrow keys.

I've learned that the space around the inverse-T cluster matters for people. it helps people locate it.
Even some 65% and 75% layout keyboards have space around the arrow keys for that reason.

The inverse-T is IMHO superior ergonomically to the cross-layout embedded in the numpad. When you rest your fingers on the cluster, the middle finger — being longer — has its natural resting position in-between the Up and Down arrow keys, with equal distance to both. The numpad could be improved if the Numpad-5 key was an additional Down key, but I've never seen support for that.

I have become accustomed to having Home/End/PgUp/PgDn above the cursor keys. I use them all the time for editing text and code and wouldn't want to be without them.
I have a couple keyboards where the nav cluster above the cursor keys are 2×2 or 2×3, and the entire keyboard being one column less wide than a typical TKL, and I have had no problem going between that and a TKL.

There are lots of 65% and 75% keyboards that don't even include the full for nav keys, but instead have Ins and Del, or Del and PageUp, or PageUp/PageDown. Many even lack a Del key. I would never buy such a keyboard.

[fohat.digs]

Many even lack a Del key. I would never buy such a keyboard.

Hear, hear. "Delete" is one of the most often-used keys by my right hand. Do I make a lot of mistakes? Maybe.
 

[Findecanor]

BTW. There have been a couple keyboards which have overlaid inverse-T arrow keys and nav keys on top of a numeric keypad.
One of them was the Cooler Master "CM Storm Quickfire TK" / "MasterKeys Pro M" from 2012.


(Image from the Deskthority Wiki. Public Domain)

Another was the Plum 96, which had the 6-key cluster one row up and four keys above the numpad on the function key row.

[HungerMechanic]

Yes. The "Nav. Cluster" is ergonomically superior.

I can use the numpad for the same functions, but the Nav. Cluster is faster and easier.

I don't buy anything without a Nav. Cluster, unless I am looking for something very compact. That's why I have TKLs. I have a 70% board, but I find myself wanting the F-row.

[zegonix]

i felt the same for quite a while. but a few years ago i bought a KBD67 by accident.. (meant to buy a Tiger Lite ..... yes, i am stupid). i was disappointed at first, but i gave it a try, using layers of course, and while the KBD67 (at least my unit) is utter garbage, i have never looked back. the biggest keyboard i have used on a daily basis since then is the cycle7.

but as already mentioned, i heavily rely on layers, otherwise i would need a TKL.
(i use caps lock and the key to the right of space as layer shifts.)

[julimma]

For me, I can't live without the directional keys. But the numpad can be easily replaced by the number row.

[clay]

People just hate numpad in the hobby generally, so they would rather have a large keyboard without a numpad, than a compact one with numpad.

[SwearWolf]

as a 40's user I recognize the TKL rectangle as the most satisfying rectangle ratio of all the keyboard layouts.

[PandaKB]

It mostly comes down to mouse space and hand travel.

From an ergonomic standpoint, a nav-less board keeps the widest part (the numpad) on the far right, which still forces your right hand to stretch way out to reach the mouse. TKL wins because it chops off that bulky section, letting you keep your mouse closer to your natural shoulder width.

Plus, a physical numpad is pretty much obsolete for most ergo users now. It’s way more efficient to just map a numpad layer directly under your home row. Holding a thumb key turns your alphas into a number pad instantly—meaning zero hand movement. A nav-less board just adds unnecessary physical width.