Author Topic: Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?  (Read 3639 times)

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Offline redpill

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Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?
« on: Thu, 10 February 2011, 11:11:59 »
I'm guessing the answer is no but I thought I'd ask.

I use a Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard at both home and work and I really like the keyboard shape & layout.  My only issue is that there are a number of 3-key combinations that simply won't work.  Most notably up arrow, left arrow, and left control can't be pressed at the same time, the third keystroke is always ghosted.  Is there any easy way to mod the keyboard to prevent this from happening?  Or is the inherent underlying mat layout mean I'm screwed?

Thanks for any tips.

^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded KeycapsDucky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline bugfix

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Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 10 February 2011, 11:13:59 »
I'd say buying a decent keyboard with at least 6KRO is all you can do.
*~Unicomp and Topre fan~*
I have:
Unicomp Customizer 105 German
Realforce 105GR
Unicomp Spacesaver German/Ansi hybrid(Current favorite)
I want:
Realforce 88GER
I used to have:
DAS Model S Ultimate EU (Sold)

Offline redpill

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Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 10 February 2011, 13:32:11 »
Thanks, I kind of figured.  It's a shame because I think MS got the shape of this keyboard just right, and then ruined it by putting such cheap internals inside.  Between this and discontinuing the trackball explorer, I don't think I can ever forgive them.

^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded KeycapsDucky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline Lanx

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Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 10 February 2011, 16:17:45 »
hey i've opened a few ms ergo 4k's and lemme tell you, they are not cheap, I counted at least 20 screws maybe even 40 screws on these things. The zoom button is just overly done but is immaculately made.

Offline redpill

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Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 10 February 2011, 17:14:01 »
Quote from: Lanx;293038
hey i've opened a few ms ergo 4k's and lemme tell you, they are not cheap, I counted at least 20 screws maybe even 40 screws on these things. The zoom button is just overly done but is immaculately made.


Haha I've had the same experience after spilling a drink on one, I unplugged it quick, took it all apart, dried it out, put it back together, and voila.  Lots of screws indeed, but the design with the single mat of plastic domes is pretty underwhelming, in addition to the above referenced ghosting issue.

^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded KeycapsDucky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline Lanx

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Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 10 February 2011, 20:53:34 »
well it's either they're membrane like everyone else or somehow become mechanical and from experience, it's near design hemorroid.

Offline redpill

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Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 11:25:19 »
Understood, but there's nothing about the membrane design in and of itself that would prevent them from permitting a greater number of simultaneous keypresses, right?  Don't the undesirable ghosting characteristics come from having too simplistic of a board underneath?

^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded KeycapsDucky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline rantenki

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Any way to stop MS Natural Ergo 4k from ghosting?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 23 February 2011, 22:51:59 »
Quote from: redpill;293411
Understood, but there's nothing about the membrane design in and of itself that would prevent them from permitting a greater number of simultaneous keypresses, right?  Don't the undesirable ghosting characteristics come from having too simplistic of a board underneath?


More connections and diodes reduce ghosting, but both of those cost $$$. Take a look at that tiny little PCB; every extra square inch cuts into profits. And yeah, they are making BANK on that keyboard, but less bank for a bit less ghosting ain't gonna happen.