Author Topic: Quieter switch, Black or Red?  (Read 15893 times)

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Offline BaconKnight

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:37:47 »
Hi guys, I just bought a Leopold cherry blue keyboard and have a IBM model m coming in the mail. Great so far, but as most of you know, both can get pretty loud. I was looking into getting a quieter keyboard to use at night and also game with so thinking about the linear blacks or reds.

My question is, for people who have tried both, is one noticeably quieter than the other? I saw this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYK03ltDcqM&feature=related

which seems to show that the blacks are slightly quieter, I would guess because it's not as easy to bottom out as the lighter touch reds. But as I mentioned earlier, is this a noticeable difference or just slight?

I ask this because it sounds like I might like the reds more because in addition to gaming, I do alot of writing at night and probably want the keyboard that's easier to type with which sounds like the red, but if it's too loud, then that defeats the purpose of getting it. Opinions? And thanks in advance for helping this nub out.
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Offline theferenc

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:38:56 »
Topre is quieter.
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Offline trievalot

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:41:32 »
my wife can make a hell of a noise on reds.....THOCK THOCK THOCK

every key bottomed out
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Offline RiGS

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:44:02 »
I don't think that the Topre is quiter than mx blacks.

The sound is very different, however the topre keycap noise is definitely annoying, and it is nearly impossible to not buttom out on the Topre.

I think they about the same.
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Offline keyboardlover

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:46:07 »
The topre keycap sound (not noise) is very pleasant to MOST people.

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #5 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:51:27 »




This is a fair comparison, however the Topre is bit louder than on the video.
I prefer the sound of the linear.
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:55:48 by RiGS »
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Offline BaconKnight

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:52:31 »
Would love to try my hand at a Topre but that would be out of my price range. From the videos I've seen/heard of it, it does sound like it makes some noise but it's a pleasant soft thock noise as opposed to my blues which is a "snap you in the face with a towel!" noise, which I love by the way, my family might not at night though.   :-)
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Offline BaconKnight

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:54:25 »
Nice videos, do you know which type of linear switch he's using in that first video?
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Offline RiGS

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:57:52 »
black
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Offline flyinout

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 18:01:21 »
I've never used Black, but I found filco brown is quiter than red.
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Offline Lpb45

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 18:12:01 »
To me the mx reds and topre are alot alike
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Offline MrSneis

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 18:16:43 »
I think that brown is quieter than red too but I believe it also has much to do with the design of the board whether it is plate mounted and the keycap types.
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #12 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 18:20:02 »
You can't go wrong with the SS 6GV2 in its price range.
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Offline ch_123

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 18:24:27 »
Black, if only because you're less likely to bottom out on them.

Offline Orphagn

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 19:23:04 »
Blacks are a lot quieter than Reds. With my Reds, I bottom out almost every time, but with Blacks I don't bottom out all that much because of the greater spring force.
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Offline BaconKnight

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 19:47:07 »
Sounds like general consensus is blacks. Do you think typing on it will be okay? Is all the "blacks are horrible for typing" talk exaggerated? I tend to have a heavy touch and bottom out on the blues a lot so maybe the heavier feel of the blacks will suit me?
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Offline NimbleRabit

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 19:49:33 »
Quote from: BaconKnight;327071
Sounds like general consensus is blacks. Do you think typing on it will be okay? Is all the "blacks are horrible for typing" talk exaggerated? I tend to have a heavy touch and bottom out on the blues a lot so maybe the heavier feel of the blacks will suit me?

Yes, it's exaggerated .  I haven't actually tried an entire keyboard of blacks (just the switch try numpad), but I didn't think they were all that stiff.  I also will agree that blacks would be slightly quieter than reds, but nothing too significant in my opinion.

Offline Orphagn

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 20:00:19 »
Quote from: BaconKnight;327071
Sounds like general consensus is blacks. Do you think typing on it will be okay? Is all the "blacks are horrible for typing" talk exaggerated? I tend to have a heavy touch and bottom out on the blues a lot so maybe the heavier feel of the blacks will suit me?


Blacks aren't horrible to type on imo. I use Blacks on my main keyboard and I don't have trouble with them for typing at all. If you bottom out with Blues you shouldn't bottom out on Blacks too much.
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Offline BaconKnight

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 20:01:36 »
That mic reminds me of the ED-209
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 20:11:19 »
Quote from: Orphagn;327079
Blacks aren't horrible to type on imo. I use Blacks on my main keyboard and I don't have trouble with them for typing at all.


I agree, I have been using Blacks for about three months now and I have found them to be quite pleasurable to type on once I got use to them.  Overall they are good switches, and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline BaconKnight

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 20:18:01 »
Quote from: ripster;327073
The Blacks are around 5% in the Mechanical Switch Poll.  AND it's one of the easiest switches to find so it's not because of cost/availability.

But you don't beat the track if you don't go against the odds.

Well something to consider is that the poll asks what's your favorite key type so there might black switch users that also have other keyboards and while they like blacks switches perfectly fine, they may just prefer another keyboard more for "everyday use" which the way this poll is set up, lends itself heavily to that suggestion (as opposed to separate polls for favorite typing switch, gaming switch, work switch, etc).
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 April 2011, 20:20:42 by BaconKnight »
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Offline theferenc

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 20:39:05 »
Quote from: BaconKnight;327090
Well something to consider is that the poll asks what's your favorite key type so there might black switch users that also have other keyboards and while they like blacks switches perfectly fine, they may just prefer another keyboard more for "everyday use" which the way this poll is set up, lends itself heavily to that suggestion (as opposed to separate polls for favorite typing switch, gaming switch, work switch, etc).


As I'm not a gamer, so I can't comment on that bit, but typing and work should really be the same category. And really "gaming switch" would have to be broken out by genre, since FPSers seem to love the linears, and RTSers demand the tactility.

Personally, just find one you like typing/working on, and then adapt your gaming to that. After all, these are tools, not toys.
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Offline BaconKnight

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 21:09:05 »
You're right, I can see why different games would require different keyboards. Starcraft on blues feels right but FPS is a little weird with the snaggy upstroke.

But for me, it's not just having a gaming keyboard, it's having a nighttime/quiet keyboard and that's something the cherry mx blues or the model m are never gonna "adapt" itself into, hence why I'm looking specifically for a black or red keyboard (looks like it's gonna be black)
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Offline BaconKnight

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 06:24:26 »
Quote from: flyinout;327011
I've never used Black, but I found filco brown is quiter than red.


At first I was confused by this statement as how could a linear switch be louder than a tactile but the more I thought about it the more it makes sense. Reds probably bottom out way more easily due to the super light touch and the lack of a tactile bump so you're probably hitting the bottom of the keyboard more with the red than brown.
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Offline Orphagn

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 11:37:12 »
Quote from: kalrykh;327370
I had to read this twice before I realized it wasn't a joke about having sex with your wife on her period.


LOL greatness
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Offline Oqsy

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 11:38:15 »
Just pretend I went to the trouble to type up my standard rant about comparing the "sound" of red/black/brown/clear switches. The sound is from key caps and mounting method, not the switch type.  Etc etc etc
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Offline guilleguillaume

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 11:48:43 »
RiGS's trolling is starting to anoy me too much.

Every thread that talk about Topre, every thread that talk about quiet keyboards, there comes RiGS with his Topre whining.

It's so funny to see that you link 2 videos with too much different volume where the MX Black sound like if nobody was typing and a Topre video where if you put the volume at max you can start blaming about the keyboard sound....don't be like that boy you're just telling lies when you put this videos and say this is a fair comparision and that the Topre are louder than in the video. This is not true and you know it, those videos are not a fair comparision.

Stop this bull**** storm please.

Offline .XL

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 12:06:25 »
I think my favorite switches are clears. I like the linear Reds very much, but as a barbarian when it comes to typing the clears work best for me. A big thing is the key weighting on the clears...it's just about perfect for me. With that said, blacks might end up being my favorite cherry switch after clears, but I've never tried them to know for sure.

I need to get a model m!
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Offline keyboardlover

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 12:11:47 »
RiGS is half Russian. That means that half of him hates everything.

Offline RiGS

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 16:01:48 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;327416
RiGS is half Russian. That means that half of him hates everything.


That usually means my mom or dad is Russian, but nothing more.

You DO like labeling other people. I don't blame you for that, it must be an American thing.
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Offline Chobopants

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 16:14:10 »
When my girlfriend goes to bed I switch to the Realforce (she even requested that I use it all the time). While the decibel level may in fact be the same or higher than the Filco (which I'm skeptical of) the gentle *thock* on the downstroke and the solid, minimal, rattle of the well-mounted keys on the upstroke creates a sound pattern that is much more pleasing to the ear and easier to sleep through.

If you absolutely must have a Cherry switch, however, my best guess is that tossing some thick PBT keys on top of Blacks and also doing the rubber band mod will get you the quietest mechanical board.
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Offline .XL

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« Reply #31 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 16:43:44 »
Quote from: Chobopants;327558

If you absolutely must have a Cherry switch, however, my best guess is that tossing some thick PBT keys on top of Blacks and also doing the rubber band mod will get you the quietest mechanical board.


I'd like to do this on my new red board...bottoming out is much easier on the fingers than it is with browns, so it might not be necessary. But I DO kind of wish I just went with imsto's KBC PBT keycaps instead of getting in the Doubleshot group buy...I'm not planning on keeping any of my keyboards for 15 years, so I don't really need doubleshots >.< I want better feeling keys!

I put my white double shots (from a 15 year old board) on my red, and couldn't really feel or hear the difference. Maybe it's because they're so old...I hope the new ones from the group buy are actually worth the money...
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #32 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 17:09:06 »
Quote from: guilleguillaume;327398
RiGS's trolling is starting to anoy me too much.

Every thread that talk about Topre, every thread that talk about quiet keyboards, there comes RiGS with his Topre whining.

It's so funny to see that you link 2 videos with too much different volume where the MX Black sound like if nobody was typing and a Topre video where if you put the volume at max you can start blaming about the keyboard sound....don't be like that boy you're just telling lies when you put this videos and say this is a fair comparision and that the Topre are louder than in the video. This is not true and you know it, those videos are not a fair comparision.

Stop this bull**** storm please.


As I said earlier I LIKE my topre.

I have only flamed it in gaming topics, because I think there are better and cheaper keyboards are out there for gaming.
And believe me I can definitely make a good judgment on that.

The guy who was looking for advice posted a very good video, but I wanted to emphasize that most typers do not bottom out on Cherry blacks, that was the reason why I linked a video of a touch typer.
It can be easily quiet like that.

However with the Realforce it is not the case, basically 95% percent of the users bottom out on them.

As I said earlier it was a fair comparison, because I had carefully searched a quiet video for the Topre as well.

Just search for the keywords "Realforce typing" on Youtube, and the first 1-5 videos on Topre will be much more louder.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=realforce+typing&aq=f

Having said that, I think they are about equally quiet.

If other geekhackers impressions/opinions that are different from yours easily make you feel annoyed, then you probably shouldn't hang around on internet forums.
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 April 2011, 17:11:12 by RiGS »
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Offline keyboardlover

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Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:09:49 »
Guillaume's not the only one who thinks you're a troll.

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #34 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:14:15 »
I couldn't care less. You are oversensitive.
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Offline Chobopants

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« Reply #35 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:17:29 »
Quote from: .XL;327575
I'd like to do this on my new red board...bottoming out is much easier on the fingers than it is with browns, so it might not be necessary. But I DO kind of wish I just went with imsto's KBC PBT keycaps instead of getting in the Doubleshot group buy...I'm not planning on keeping any of my keyboards for 15 years, so I don't really need doubleshots >.< I want better feeling keys!

I put my white double shots (from a 15 year old board) on my red, and couldn't really feel or hear the difference. Maybe it's because they're so old...I hope the new ones from the group buy are actually worth the money...


You read my mind. I'm debating either grabbing black on white or engraved white from imsto.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #36 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:17:32 »
Rigs, are you qualified to psychoanalyze people over the internet? Is that part of being vegan?

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #37 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:37:04 »
I used to be a competitive body builder, and consumed a lot of meat on a daily basis, on the other hand I always had a love and appreciation for animals.

I became vegan because I wanted to reduce my involvement in the exploitation of animals, for me it is that I don't feel my needs are more important than the suffering of an animal.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #38 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:43:29 »
And you say I'M oversensitive!

Offline .XL

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« Reply #39 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:54:28 »
Quote from: RiGS;327643

I became vegan because I wanted to reduce my involvement in the exploitation of animals, for me it is that I don't feel my needs are more important than the suffering of an animal.

I really liked you until this part. Now, I have to join with the angry mob that has torches.

Torches!

Sorry :(

@Chobopants - I think that group buy is done...is there another place to get them?
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #40 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:59:16 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;327646
And you say I'M oversensitive!


Yep, being compassionate towards others, and having strong ethics are not even remotely the same as being an oversensitive wuss.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline Chobopants

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« Reply #41 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 19:27:50 »
Ah I just looked, yeah it is over.

I'm actually a little curious and am going to follow Ripster's impressions of the Filco keys vs the PBTs over time. He said his first impression is that they feel almost identical after a while. I was really hoping the PBT from imsto would feel like my Realforce's.

I'm going to wait and see what I think about the round 3 group buy keys I ordered and, if I'm not happy, try some PBT if imsto sells again.
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Offline guilleguillaume

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« Reply #42 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 20:03:13 »
Quote from: RiGS;327590
[,,,]

Having said that, I think they are about equally quiet.

If other geekhackers impressions/opinions that are different from yours easily make you feel annoyed, then you probably shouldn't hang around on internet forums.


That's the way you should have told the things on this Thread. The way you did told that Topre are loud and noisy and that is not true my friend and seemed you wanted to say that MX Black are more quiet which is not true at all, only if the one using Blacks is not bottoming out and the one using Topre is doing it.

Ripster I only get annoyed when people cause misinformation :painkiller:

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #43 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 21:14:54 »
Quote from: RiGS
Yep, being compassionate towards others, and having strong ethics are not even remotely the same as being an oversensitive wuss.


Compassion towards others and ethics eh? So, can you explain how you feel about Jewish people again?

Offline Chobopants

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« Reply #44 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 23:28:25 »
Quote from: ripster;327678
Definitely don't feel like the Topres.  Topre are velvety.  The KBC PBTs feel like a slippery version of standard keys.

They probably will last longer than Topres though just because they are more rough textured.

I'll drag out the microscope sometime and take pics.


Thanks, good to know. I almost went hog wild looking for a PBT key order but knowing this makes me take pause. I really just want copies of my Realforce keys on a Filco. That's pretty much my dream keyboard.
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #45 on: Sun, 10 April 2011, 05:20:26 »
Quote from: guilleguillaume;327696
That's the way you should have told the things on this Thread. The way you did told that Topre are loud and noisy and that is not true my friend and seemed you wanted to say that MX Black are more quiet which is not true at all, only if the one using Blacks is not bottoming out and the one using Topre is doing it.


Nope, I said they are about the same.

Quote
I think they about the same.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline theferenc

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« Reply #46 on: Sun, 10 April 2011, 10:03:13 »
Quote from: RiGS;327643
I became vegan because I wanted to reduce my involvement in the exploitation of animals, for me it is that I don't feel my needs are more important than the suffering of an animal.


You do realize you could have just gone free range/humane kill rather than full on vegan, right?

Also, how exactly are eggs and milk products exploitative and suffering inducing? I know a lot of people with cows and/or chickens. If you DON'T collect the eggs or milk the cow, it can cause discomfort for the animal, especially the milk. And if you don't have a rooster around, the chickens will just push the old eggs out of the way to lay a new one, and they usually lay daily.

Also, stop being so confrontational about Topre keyboards. Sure, you "like them", and so claims Ripster as well, but it's seriously annoying to have to read the same damn nonsense over and over, much of it patently incorrect, and the rest personal opinion stated as fact.

Now, I admit I jokingly suggested Topre as the quieter of black and red, but as I had just come from the audiophile thread, it seemed funny. Any it was obvious to everyone that it was a joke (I think so, anyway). Based on my knowledge of how they work, a black can be the quietest, if you adjust your typing, mod the board, etc. But as someone else stated, while the Topre might be louded in absolute dB, pitch matters. Just compare a Model M and a blue Cherry keyboard. The M is louder in dB, the blue FEELS louder to most people because of the much higher pitch.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 10 April 2011, 10:17:48 »
Some things in life don't change. Duckys are sucky. Realforces kick ass.

Vegans are weirdos.

« Last Edit: Sun, 10 April 2011, 10:20:17 by keyboardlover »

Offline RiGS

  • Posts: 1594
Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 10 April 2011, 10:20:06 »
You are a troll.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Quieter switch, Black or Red?
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 10 April 2011, 10:21:45 »