Tenkeyless keyboard for HD monitor

[bonheur]

I recently acquired a Logitech Internet 350 keyboard (link http://www.logitech.com/en-za/for-business/products/keyboards/devices/585%20)--as ):



I believe it to have rubber dome keys. It works very well for my needs, but as I have a monitor resolution of 1920x1080 I need lots of horizontal movement for the mouse. There's where I believe the number pad keys interfere with mouse usage.

I use my computer for general tasks ranging from office programs, Internet browsing, IM, watching movies, etc. but I do not play any games.

After browsing the Internet for a new keyboard I learned that I do not want a compact keyboard as those tend to have cramped up key layouts. I've also found a lot of high quality mechanical keyboards [pricey ones] that while look very interesting, I always hated noise coming from the keyboard with a passion. I want my keyboard to be as silent as possible.

It's for the above reason that I'd like to get a corded, tenkeyless, rubber-dome keyboard with a separate corded, number pad. I also like to have some multimedia keys (play/pause, calculator, e-mail, etc.).

Some things I've found:

MS SideWinder X6, it's gamer oriented, which I don't need nor like.
IBM SpaceSaver 1 & 2, with or without the "stick mouse", I guess I'm going after that layout but on a modern keyboard.
IBM M4, with or without the "stick mouse" with the optional number pad, I've read that's a laptop keyboard. I've never used a laptop so I don't even know if I'd like it. Also, none seem available from Unicomp right now and they're pricey.

I have not been successful in finding anything in particular that may suit my needs, so I'm going to need your help.

Thank you for reading!  :smile:

[craZivn]

[audioave10]

I'm using a SIIG Minitouch Plus. The rubber domes are not as bad as many others...but I'm still looking for a mechanical version. It has the basic 5 media keys and isn't as cramped as other keyboards. NewEgg has it for $25.00 (if in stock). Good pics are hard to find.

[The Solutor]

I think you need a clone of the keyboard of the Olivetti Envision, at the time ('95) was unique, but now there are hundtrds of lockalike keyboards.



If you want a corded one the thinkpad external keyboard could be a good option

New model



or old model

[pkamb]

I love those Thinkpad USB keyboards. Trackpoints are amazing, I don't even use a mouse anymore.

All the reviews online list a "DOuble CAps" issue with the shift key, but I haven't had any problems with mine at all.

[bonheur]

Thank you very much for your valuable advice, I didn't think I would get so many answers in such short time!

Audioave10, I see the current SIIG USB Multimedia keyboard ( http://www.siig.com/it-products/keyboards/wired/usb-mini-multimedia-keyboard.html ) has a short space bar. Usually, my thumb is right below in between the M and Comma keys (right below the X and C keys for the left hand). Otherwise, it seems an interesting alternative. It'd be awesome if it had an USB port where to hook up a matching number pad.

I like this old SIIG keyboard which is still available on here: http://www.amazon.com/80-key-Minitouch-Plus-Enhanced-Keyboard/dp/B00006BA8M/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1303594570&sr=8-16 It's called the SIIG Minitouch Plus Enhanced keyboard - Black Model Kb1941. But it comes with an AT connector, so a PS/2 converter would be mandatory. I like this particular keyboard because many of the keys are painted with a different color, so its layout doesn't look cramped up. Unfortunately, the current models are all black.

The Solutor, which clones of the Olivetti Envision keyboard would you suggest me looking at? Conversely, which ones would you advice me to discard right away? How does this keyboard feel for touch typing?

The Solutor, this ThinkPad laptop-style keyboard looks very interesting, but how does it feel typing on it? I've haven't had a laptop for well over a decade and I cannot remember how they felt like. I cannot try any laptop right now. Wouldn't it be better to have a keyboard layout similar to those of the IBM SpaceSaver 1 & 2?

Also, is the trackpoint a good pointing device to use on a 1920x1080 monitor? One has "variable speed" available with  the swift move of your arm with any conventional mice, but how does this trackpoint pointing device work under such conditions? Let's say the cursor is on the top right corner and I need to select some text on the bottom left corner, how long will I have to wait until the cursor moves down there? Is it a good pointing device to make many of the selections needed when working with images on PhotoShop Elements? I'm just trying to have an idea when this trackpoint pointer would be useful for my needs.

I guess keyboard layouts with no separations between the different groups of keys should have some of the keys painted in different colors. Otherwise, they look quite intimidating at first sight.

There's this guy saying the world's best computer keyboard is this IBM SpaceSaver 2: http://davidbau.com/archives/2005/05/21/worlds_best_computer_keyboard.html This keyboard comes with a trackpoint pointing device and full naviagation keys.



But the IBM SpaceSaver 2 keyboard hasn't been produced for several years now.

The following IBM M4 keyboard can be had with or without a  Trackpoint from Unicomp:



But how does this keyboard compare with my current unit for touch typing and general usage? It doesn't have any multimedia keys, but a separate number pad is available.

I know I have pointed out to several mechanical switch keyboards in the text above, but I still preffer the rubber dome keyboards solely because they're very very quiet and my current Logitech Internet 350 keyboard with rubber dome keys has a nice and uniform touch.

[a_fluffy_kitten]

How do you measure DPI sensitivity on a trackpoint?

By weight; not by volume.

[The Solutor]

The Solutor, which clones of the Olivetti Envision keyboard would you suggest me looking at? Conversely, which ones would you advice me to discard right away? How does this keyboard feel for touch typing?

My two Envision are still working after 16 years, so I haven't used a lot of its keyboard clones, by the way BTC made a lot of them (i tried one briefly and was not too bad), ergogeek has also a good selection of this kind of keyboards.

http://ergogeek.com/mini-sized-keyboard.html

About the to the tactile feeling, they are mainly scissor switch keyboards, with a short travel and with a tactile feeling ranging from perceptible to very good

The Solutor, this ThinkPad laptop-style keyboard looks very interesting, but how does it feel typing on it?

Thinkpads are likely one of the best keyboard available, I consider them on par, if not better than most mechanical keyboards, specially the ones built from NMB.

Usually you can't go wrong with keyboards made by the ex typewriter makers like Olivetti or IBM (and its legacy).

Also, is the trackpoint a good pointing device to use on a 1920x1080 monitor? One has "variable speed" available with the swift move of your arm with any conventional mice, but how does this trackpoint pointing device work under such conditions?

Trackpoint, I mean the classic one installed on thinkpads, has no problems with large monitors: more force, more speed, very handy and intuitive.

But (afaik) the one mounted on the mech keyboards and space savers is different and may not be effective as the one from notebooks and from the two lenovo keyboards I linked.

[liist]

I love those Thinkpad USB keyboards. Trackpoints are amazing, I don't even use a mouse anymore.

All the reviews online list a "DOuble CAps" issue with the shift key, but I haven't had any problems with mine at all.

It feels even nicer to use a ThinkPad! I really like the feel of the keyboard, especially recently, for some odd reason.

So how does the USB keyboard compare to the real thing?

[bonheur]

Thank you for all your advice, guys! :smile:

For what I'm gathering on here it seems that you're suggesting me to invest on a laptop keyboard instead of a rubber dome keyboard? May I ask why? Please, notice that the last time I used a laptop was more than a decade ago so I kind of forgot how they feel like.

I found the current Lenovo ThinkPad keyboard is being sold on the Lenovo store for $59.

Does this Lenovo ThinkPad have any features that can only be used on Lenovo computers or can it be fully used on any IBM PC compatible computer?



As for the BTC keyboards I found out that the only rubber dome keyboard with a relatively large space bar is this one: 5139U / 5139H Mini keyboard. Which can be had for $15.96 on the Ergogeek.com website.



Both, BTC and Lenovo have numerical keypads with USB.

Also, are the above keyboards easy to type on? How do they feel compared to a keyboard with all full-size keys like this IBM SpaceSaver below (or any other keyboard with full-size keys for that matter)?

[The Solutor]

Thank you for all your advice, guys! :smile:

For what I'm gathering on here it seems that you're suggesting me to invest on a laptop keyboard instead of a rubber dome keyboard? May I ask why? Please, notice that the last time I used a laptop was more than a decade ago so I kind of forgot how they feel like.

As I said the scissor switch keyboard can be very very good (I still consider  the new lenovo keyboard found on the Edge 11/Thinkpad X100/X120e the best keyboard I ever touched).

BTW being matter of preferences, is  better if you touch some laptop keyboard before buying the lenovo one, task that usually can be easily accomplished on a big electronics store.

Back to the lenovo keyboard, can be used with any PC, obviously you wont get some of the FN + something combinations that are thinkpad specific.

[domin8r]

Bonheur, something different than a smaller keyboard.. why not use a more sensitive mouse? At work I have a 3840x1200 desktop and at home 2560x1024 and it's really NEVER a problem how big my keyboard is

[pitashen]

You also might want to consider a higher DPI mouse or learn to use a trackball.

[False_Dmitry_II]

I agree with the more sensitive mouse thing. You can get a tenkeyless, but if that's the reason you want one then you don't really need a pointing device on the keyboard.

[bonheur]

Bonheur, something different than a smaller keyboard.. why not use a more sensitive mouse? At work I have a 3840x1200 desktop and at home 2560x1024 and it's really NEVER a problem how big my keyboard is

 
My current mouse is a corded Logitech M500 with a laser sensor.

Maybe you can place the mouse in such a way that it's very close to your hand without having to tilt your arm?

I've had [and still do sometimes] tennis elbow issues in my right arm. Maybe it's not related, but the more I use the keyboard instead of the mouse the less elbow problems I have. That's the main reason why I'm looking for an alternative to my current set up [otherwise, I'm very happy with my current keyboard]

I find your answer lightweight.

How about.......

Show Image

The search term "HHKB Killer" should bring it up.

I guess it's this keyboard: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/78-key-compact-slim-usb-keyboard-black-160cm-cable-44378 right?

After looking at it, I cannot seem to find the Insert key. Am I right? Half the time I hate the Insert key while the other half of the time I use it instead of Control^C or Control^V. Also, how does it feel using the half-height keys employed for the cursor?

Otherwise, it seems like a neat keyboard.

I agree with the more sensitive mouse thing. You can get a tenkeyless, but if that's the reason you want one then you don't really need a pointing device on the keyboard.

I don't really need a pointing device on the keyboard. maybe it could be useful for basic things as I'd could use it with less elbow movement than using a mouse. So I get a trackpoint, great! I don't get a trackpoint, not a problem! :smile:

Maybe this whole trackpoint thing came up because I pointed out to the IBM SpaceSaver keyboard before. Back when I was browsing the Internet for ideas I came up with this pages:

http://davidbau.com/archives/2005/05/21/worlds_best_computer_keyboard.html
http://www.58bits.com/blog/2008/07/06/In-Search-Of-The-Worlds-Best-Computer-Keyboard.aspx
http://www.58bits.com/blog/2008/09/15/In-Search-Of-The-Worlds-Best-Computer-Keyboard-II.aspx
http://www.tim.id.au/blog/

The only thing I dont like about the current ThinkPad USB keyboard is that it has a lot of keys that are only useful if you happen to own a Lenovo computer. It's my believe that they could have used that space on their USB ThinkPad keyboard for some useful shortcuts like multimedia keys which could potentially be appreciated for any compatible IBM-PC user with the Windows OS.

If you get a trackball get one with high enough DPI.  The Kensingtons seem to have really lame DPI.

I'd preffer to avoid using a trackball.

I have enough room on my table to use the mouse. But this mouse area is displaced to the right. As I said above, the more I know how to use the keyboard for navigation among windows, etc. instead of using the mouse the less I complain about using a full-size keyboard [and the less elbow issues I seem to have].

Many of the compact keyboards have a lot of half size keys, both, horizontally and vertically; a lot of them have narrow space bars; and most of them seem to have cramped up layouts. This one from Unicomp looks neat, but I've never seen one myself so I could be wrong--it also lacks the Windows keys and any multimedia keys whatsoever.

[pitashen]

Do give Trackball a second thought. It is well worth the trouble getting used to one. I was forced to get a trackball due to my hurting wrist from playing too much games. I don't regret the switch.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Just so you know, the mouse you have now while lasered seems to only have one dpi setting (the design also seems to be quite old). There are two things you can do to prevent moving at the elbow, and that's switching to claw grip (so your fingertips are the only things touching the mouse) and/or turn the dpi way up. Both of those require getting a new mouse, most likely a "gaming" one. There are people who turn the dpi setting to the maximum you can, and they can move the mouse maybe two inches to get the whole screen. You'd have to do a bunch of experimenting to see what works for you.

[bonheur]

Thank you for your suggestions guys! They're much appreciated and I certainly will keep them in mind when making my choices.

As for my current mouse, it takes about 3 inches of horizontal movement and about 2 inches of vertical movement to get the cursor to move from one corner to the diagonally opposed corner with my current resolution of 1920x1080.



As for the "claw grip", I guess this is what I'm currently using since the Logitech M500 is smaller than my hand (a size 10 in gloves). My wrist is resting on the table most of the time. But I may have to change the spot where my wrist rests once after moving the cursor a long distance so my fingers don't need to be uncomfortably stretched.

What annoys me is that every now and then my right thumb comes against the keyboard as I naturally tend to like to have my arm in a more centered position. I guess there's where I realised the numeric keypad was getting on the way. At first, I was moving the keyboard to the left but that gave me an uncentered keyboard for typing.

[The Solutor]

I always used the acceleration on trackballs and mice, when you move normally you get precision,when  you move quickly get more on screen distance covered with the same mouse movement, so I really cared about mice dpi

[brkim1324]

Thinkpad keyboards are one of my favorites. Before I knew mechanical keyboards, thinkpads were my favorite to type on. But not best for gaming, but great keyboard indeed. Great design, feedback, brand, everything. But that HHKB killer lol.. should really say it's apple wireless keyboard killer.. I don't think they are comparable... I did have apple wireless keyboard (the slim one), and used it on windows.. well I did sell it back on eBay, for few reasons.
1. that time, I was kinda hard typist, so my hand hurted,
2. the feedback was too dead end, so didn't like it.
3. well, yea, it's not really fitted for windows.
I love scissor keyboards, but they are .. just not in the same category of comparing to mechanical, spring, topre. but they have their charm, like it's good for me to cloud type on, and it does feel great.
but yeah... just don't call it HHKB killah lol it's just not right. it's like u r saying KIA new optima is AUDI Q7 killah~ it's just not right.. lol

[Arc'xer]

As for my current mouse, it takes about 3 inches of horizontal movement and about 2 inches of vertical movement to get the cursor to move from one corner to the diagonally opposed corner with my current resolution of 1920x1080.

As for the "claw grip", I guess this is what I'm currently using since the Logitech M500 is smaller than my hand (a size 10 in gloves). My wrist is resting on the table most of the time. But I may have to change the spot where my wrist rests once after moving the cursor a long distance so my fingers don't need to be uncomfortably stretched.

M500 is psuedo-palm/claw grip mouse but leans more towards palm. It does look "claw" like; but generally mice with a hump towards the rear are for mainly claw and mice with hump towards the center allow you to rest your hand on it. Logitech mostly makes palm grip mice anyways except for a few here and there.

You should just max out the DPI on the M500 which is 1000DPI, 3"/2" sounds to be around 400-800 area. With 1000DPI you could bring it down to 1.92"/1.08". Should reduce the surface area of which you use but in reality you should just get a bigger desk if you got space issues.

As for "gaming" mice just because they are gaming doesn't mean they don't work or are good for regular users. You'd actually benefit from using one because of the high DPI(5000+) which works wonders for desktop work and reduces a lot of fatigue. So don't ignore them because they are used for some specific purpose. One of the reasons why so many people are wanting high DPI trackball or trackballs with modern sensors used on current gaming mice like the ADNS-9500.

[False_Dmitry_II]

That's why I put gaming in quotes like that.

[dr/owned]

With logitech mice you can go into the Setpoint .xml settings file and manually tweak the X axis and Y axis sensitivity.  It'd be funky for gaming but might help you.  With my G500 I can also tweak the X and Y axis DPI's independently.  If you need more space consider building vertical.  My monitor is above my keyboard and mouse/pad right now...took a pizza U shape cooling stand, put it on it's side so it's a C, then zip tie 1/4" fiberboard sheet to the top.  Instant monitor stand for $6...also did cool attachments to it like glue 2 USB hubs under the top and a cardboard pen holder.  + some bungee cords to route mouse and keyboard and USB cables out of the way.

[domin8r]

If you're looking for a no-nonsense high DPI mouse I can really recommend the Razer Abyssus. It's a rocking mouse! No bullsh*t load of buttons you won't use (well I don't atleast) but fits nicely in your hand and is super accurate and fast.

Something else alltogether if you're having problems using a mouse you could consider using a tablet. Used to have probs with my arm/shoulder using a mouse at work and switching to a Wacom Intuos did wonders!

[theferenc]

You could also go with a Cherry red or black switch keyboard, and put the dampers from EK on them. Since the linear switches have most of their sound from bottoming out and "topping out" (is that even a term? when the key returns to full upright position), you can make them virtually silent with the firm dampers from EK. Red for light tough, black for heavier touch. Black is also much easier to snag in a tenkeyless variety.

[bonheur]

Thank you for all your advice, guys! :smile:

A tablet is something I would really want to try at some point. I somehow feel I would get better acquainted with them than with trackballs--yet drawing is not my thing. I read several tutorials where they explained to me all the functions of a tablet, like they can be used for double clicking, they have a right button, etc. But is there a tutorial or video somewhere that explains how useful a tablet could be for general Windows usage? Like how to scroll a website with them, move around an Excel spreadsheet, select and drag several files into a folder, etc. The experience of a tablet user. That'd be a great read. But in the case of a tablet, I'd really want to have it as close as possible to my trunk hence a small [full-sized keys] keyboard.

I will look into the high-dpi gaming mice--like the Razer Abyssus--the next time I need to buy a mouse. Yet I kind of enjoy the forwards and backwards buttons on my Logitech M500 mouse as well as the free-spin scroll wheel feature and the horizontal scroll. The middle button on the M500 isn't that great, but I can live with that. How long will it take for office mice to have high-dpi laser sensors?

As for the Filco Majestouch tenkeyless keyboard w/ black switches, it looks like what I had in mind in the first place. How does it feel like not having a numeric keypad physically attatched to the keyboard?  As for the switches, how do I know which ones I want? Do the red ones (Filco Majestouch w/ red switches) or the black ones somehow compare to the feeling I get with my current keyboard? Just to have something to compare them to. As for the EK dampers, could you please give me a link where to find more information about them? As I must confess that I have absolutely no idea what they are. Are they something I need to install on my keyboard myself?

[False_Dmitry_II]

"Office" mice will never get that kind of sensor. There are plenty of gaming mice with forwards and backwards buttons. Even ones with free spinning or not scroll wheels. I think you might like the logitech G500, it's a better version of the classic G5 gaming mouse, with more buttons and higher DPI. It's only like $50-60 on amazon.

The dampeners are something you put between the key and the switch. So, yes you'd have to install them yourself. They shouldn't feel any different at all.

[theferenc]

The EK dampers can be found here, and yes, you would have to install them yourself, but it seems pretty easy to do.

Your current keyboard is not likely comparable directly to any mechanical keyboard. In fact, none of the different switch types are directly comparable, except within a single family. Rubber domes are much more uniform, so "standard" keyboards are much easier to compare. But buckling springs aren't directly comparable to Cherry MX switches, which aren't comparable to Topres or other rubber domes.

The Topres would be closest to yours, and other folks on here comment favorably in terms of the linear switches (red and black) being a good stepping stone to tactile mechanical switches. And others that keep going back to the reds and blacks, regardless of what else they try.

I have not had much luck personally finding a red tenkeyless in my brief search when you first posted, but as I don't use Cherry switch keyboards, I admit to not looking too hard. Others here might be able to provide more insight in terms of acquisition. Good luck!

[craZivn]

I resent that my suggestion was completely ignored.

[sordna]

Another tenkeyless membrane keyboard to consider is the Goldtouch:
http://www.amazon.com/Goldtouch-Adjustable-Keyboard-USB-black/dp/B0006VJE82

It's silent, and you can also also split it or tent it in various positions which I found very comfortable on the wrists. I think tenting it reduces its footprint too. There's also a Goldtouch numpad.

[domin8r]

Thank you for all your advice, guys! :smile:

A tablet is something I would really want to try at some point. I somehow feel I would get better acquainted with them than with trackballs--yet drawing is not my thing. I read several tutorials where they explained to me all the functions of a tablet, like they can be used for double clicking, they have a right button, etc. But is there a tutorial or video somewhere that explains how useful a tablet could be for general Windows usage? Like how to scroll a website with them, move around an Excel spreadsheet, select and drag several files into a folder, etc. The experience of a tablet user. That'd be a great read. But in the case of a tablet, I'd really want to have it as close as possible to my trunk hence a small [full-sized keys] keyboard.

I will look into the high-dpi gaming mice--like the Razer Abyssus--the next time I need to buy a mouse. Yet I kind of enjoy the forwards and backwards buttons on my Logitech M500 mouse as well as the free-spin scroll wheel feature and the horizontal scroll. The middle button on the M500 isn't that great, but I can live with that. How long will it take for office mice to have high-dpi laser sensors?

As for the Filco Majestouch tenkeyless keyboard w/ black switches, it looks like what I had in mind in the first place. How does it feel like not having a numeric keypad physically attatched to the keyboard?  As for the switches, how do I know which ones I want? Do the red ones (Filco Majestouch w/ red switches) or the black ones somehow compare to the feeling I get with my current keyboard? Just to have something to compare them to. As for the EK dampers, could you please give me a link where to find more information about them? As I must confess that I have absolutely no idea what they are. Are they something I need to install on my keyboard myself?

A tablet is pretty nice for general windows usage. The great thing about a tablet is that the position on a tablet is absolute. Meaning that a location on the tablet directly corresponds to a location on your screen. This takes some time to get used to but in the end it works superfast since you directly know where to move the pen to go to a specific spot on the screen.
They have all kinds of solutions for scrolling these days,

The only drawback to using a tablet is that with a mouse you can simply let it go to type a bit and with a tablet you either hold the pen in your hand while typing or hold it on your mouth, etc.

As for the Razer mouse.. if you like some more buttons, they have those too ofcourse.. Razer mice really do rock. My last one lasted me 8 years

[theferenc]

Tablet's aren't that expensive, as a tool for work. As a toy, they most definitely are. A decently sized Intuos will cost upwards of $400, but the larger size is definitely worth it. If you really want to go all out, you could even get a Cintiq. Now those are seriously slick. $400 for a work aid is what, a few hours for most tech professionals?

And I have little to no trouble transitioning from inking to typing, personally. Then again, even with a mouse, it's either or in terms of keyboard usage. I never use both at the same time, so I physically move things to be most convenient for the task at hand. Similarly with my Intuos.

[bonheur]

[Cherry MX switches and other vendors]
The EK Soft-Landing Pads, should I get the black or the grey ones?

For what I'm reading in the forum, I guess the Cherry MX Red switches are the most silent and easier to type on, am I right?

Are the Cherry MX Red switches better for my needs than the Topres switches? Are there any other similar switches from other brands? I'm lost, I know nothing about keyboard switches.


[Sawing off my keyboard]
CraZivn, I'd preffer no to saw off my current keyboard, LOL. I was considering getting one of those compact Chinese keyboards if they're of good quality.


[Tablets]
I'm going to ask this guy to let me try his tablet. It sounds like a nice alternative to a mouse. But at $400 I'm so not getting one. A computer is not my primary productive tool.

What could I expect from one of those moderately priced Wacom Bamboo tablets for $99?


[Taobao.com]
Is Taobao.com a good place to buy a keyboard at the best price? If so, could you guys please give me a few links of keyboards I may be interested in from that website? I do not speak Putong Hua, but I can give a link to my friend and ask her to buy it for me. After a quick search, I seem to have found what I believe are Steelseries, Filco, etc. keyboards, small Apple-lookalike keyboards, USB numeric keypads, etc. I just don't know which ones are of good quality.

[domin8r]

[Cherry MX switches and other vendors]
The EK Soft-Landing Pads, should I get the black or the grey ones?

For what I'm reading in the forum, I guess the Cherry MX Red switches are the most silent and easier to type on, am I right?

Are the Cherry MX Red switches better for my needs than the Topres switches? Are there any other similar switches from other brands? I'm lost, I know nothing about keyboard switches.


[Sawing off my keyboard]
CraZivn, I'd preffer no to saw off my current keyboard, LOL. I was considering getting one of those compact Chinese keyboards if they're of good quality.


[Tablets]
I'm going to ask this guy to let me try his tablet. It sounds like a nice alternative to a mouse. But at $400 I'm so not getting one. A computer is not my primary productive tool.

What could I expect from one of those moderately priced Wacom Bamboo tablets for $99?


[Taobao.com]
Is Taobao.com a good place to buy a keyboard at the best price? If so, could you guys please give me a few links of keyboards I may be interested in from that website? I do not speak Putong Hua, but I can give a link to my friend and ask her to buy it for me. After a quick search, I seem to have found what I believe are Steelseries, Filco, etc. keyboards, small Apple-lookalike keyboards, USB numeric keypads, etc. I just don't know which ones are of good quality.

If you're just gonna use the tablet as a replacement for your mouse and not as a graphic designer or anything then a Bamboo will work fine for you!

[bonheur]

After some thought and given all the information you guys have provided me, I'll start by getting a somewhat smaller keyboard than what I have now and go from there.

Option #1, get one of those Filco keyboards with the Cherry MX Red switches plus those dampers if I can find it for a good price from Taobao.com or a similar website. I need help there and one of you guys told me there are other brands of switches.



Option #2, get a cheap and compact keyboard like this: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=6926689976 Just to give it a try see how I feel like with that. I'm going to need a separate USB numeric pad at some point, but I can give it a try without it.



Option #3, this somewhat compact keyboard looks intersting and has the "US International" layout printed on the keys: http://www.urcoollaptopbattery.us/ibm-usb-keyboard-us-international-with-2port-usb-hub-10k3847-p-1231.html Good looking, but I know nothing about its quality. I haven't found any other keyboard being advertised with the "US International" layout printed on the keys.



I hope this will be the best approach for me.

[theferenc]

For the absolute most silent keyboard, reds with the grey dampers would probably be your best bet. Expect to pay over $100, though, especially if you want tenkeyless. Topres are a good switch, particularly if you like your current keyboard, but are seriously pricey, in the $200+ range. As you said, if the computer isn't your primary productivity tool, it isn't really worth the money. Some would argue it never is, but I feel mine was worth every penny.

And yes, the bamboo would be perfectly fine if you aren't a designer. The only issue with them is the size: for a multimonitor setup, absolute positioning is rather frustrating. For a single monitor, especially a smaller one in widescreen layout, it would work fairly well. Just make sure you get one with a pen, rather than the touch only model.

[sordna]

For the absolute most silent keyboard, reds with the grey dampers would probably be your best bet.

For the most silent mechanical keyboard you mean. Because there's lots of membrane keyboards that are far quiter than dampened mech keyboards.

[theferenc]

Actually, my Dell rubber dome keyboard that I have sitting next to me and my MS Ergo 4K are both louder than my dampened slider Dell AT101W. Same with my Macbook Pro keyboard. The noise comes from the bottoming out, which on a dampened board is minimized. And a linear board is otherwise basically silent. So not sure how much quieter you can get than that...

[sordna]

I guess it varies from keyboard to keyboard, but some membrane keyboard are very quiet. You can make the downstroke almost silent on a mech keyboard with these dampers, but then the upstroke seems to be where the noise comes from. A macbook's keyboard upstroke is way quieter than dampened cherry switches.

[Mazora]

Would be nice to have a mod that would make the upstroke quiter on a MX switch, even if it had to be opened I think  it would be worth the trouble

[The Solutor]

Actually, my Dell rubber dome keyboard that I have sitting next to me and my MS Ergo 4K are both louder than my dampened slider Dell AT101W. Same with my Macbook Pro keyboard. The noise comes from the bottoming out, which on a dampened board is minimized. And a linear board is otherwise basically silent. So not sure how much quieter you can get than that...

Come on, the 95% of rubber domes are quieter than any mech keyboard, some slightly some greatly, but they still are the vast majority, some of them are not just silent but also reasonably good to type on, and cheap.

There is also a minority of rubber domes that are noisy (and usually noisy on a rubber dome mean also poor built and not pleasant to type on), but they are a minority, an exception.

[False_Dmitry_II]

@ The Solutor

Clearly you've never used a AEKII or one with those dampened sliders. The dampened part is literally rubber. That's why I traded him my rubber sliders, because I didn't like how silent it was, or the reminiscent feel of domes. Its also black alps, so only tactile. Tis quite quiet.

Would be nice to have a mod that would make the upstroke quiter on a MX switch, even if it had to be opened I think  it would be worth the trouble

Not possible. If you did it, it would just become a linear switch. Look at the cherry switches wiki. The way they make the bump and/or the click is the same way it does stuff in the other direction.

[The Solutor]

@ The Solutor

Clearly you've never used a AEKII or one with those dampened sliders. The dampened part is literally rubber. That's why I traded him my rubber sliders, because I didn't like how silent it was, or the reminiscent feel of domes. Its also black alps, so only tactile. Tis quite quiet.

I'm just doing some personal statistics.

Being an IT technician since '96 or so, and being an IT hobbyist since '82 I had under my hands an huge amount of PC and obviously keyboards, so I consider those statistics a bit more valid than the average user's ones, that's all.

I don't mind to start a war between mechs and rubbers, also because my favorite keyboard is still the chiclet like one present on the thinkpad edge, and on tp x100e, x120e, which are both silent and tactile.

[bonheur]

[Tablet]
I'll ask my friend to let me try his tablet, *I think* his tablet works with a pen only (no touchpad feature). As I understood it, tablets need to work with a pen only so one can rest the hand over the tablet without affecting the cursor.

[Switches, rubber domes, and chiclets]
So I know now that rubber dome keyboards are the most silent ones. :smile: What's the feel like of one of those chiclet keyboards? Are there any chiclet keyboards available for a PC? How do rubber dome and chiclet keyboards compare to scissor switches in, both, noise and feeling?

[Wars]
Please, don't start a war on here just because I'm so dumb when it comes to keyboards that I need to ask for advice in almost everything I come across.

[The Solutor]

Cichlet is a cheap kind of keyboard that was used on some early pc like the ZX spectrum, and that is still alive only in very cheap equipement or in some waterproof keyboards.



The actual chiclet keyboard are chiclet like, just because the shape of the keys.



They are scissor keyboards with a different shape, and as all shissor keyboarsd can be awfull, average (like the apple ones) or good/very good like the thinkpad's ones


 (it depends by the OEM).

[sordna]

Surprisingly, the Samsung N510 11.6" netbook has a GREAT scissor keyboard (to me better than macbooks).

[sordna]

Not possible. If you did it, it would just become a linear switch. Look at the cherry switches wiki. The way they make the bump and/or the click is the same way it does stuff in the other direction.

I think you misunderstood. The upstroke noise we are talking about is the noise even linear cherries do when reaching the very end of the travel during the upstroke. Hitting whatever "stop" is inside the switch makes quite a bit of noise, especially if you release the key by sliding your finger off of it.

[theferenc]

I'm just doing some personal statistics.

Being an IT technician since '96 or so, and being an IT hobbyist since '82 I had under my hands an huge amount of PC and obviously keyboards, so I consider those statistics a bit more valid than the average user's ones, that's all.

I don't mind to start a war between mechs and rubbers, also because my favorite keyboard is still the chiclet like one present on the thinkpad edge, and on tp x100e, x120e, which are both silent and tactile.

Well, sure, but I happen to have two of the most popular non-chicklet style keyboards sitting next to me, and they happen to be quite noisy, especially by rubber dome standards. The MS Ergo is actually louder than my HHKB, as well as my Dell. And those AEKII rubber dampers really silence the hell out of an ALPS switch, especially if you remove the click leaf. Without the click leaf, they are essentially a linear switch, and I would assume somewhere between black and red in terms of feel. And almost entirely silent.

[bonheur]

So I was thinking about something compact with full-size keys like this:


(Does it have leds for caps lock or num lock? :grin:)
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/86-key-compact-slim-usb-keyboard-white-180cm-cable-44377


http://www.dealextreme.com/p/79-key-compact-slim-usb-keyboard-white-silver-120cm-cable-48597


http://www.dealextreme.com/p/78-key-compact-slim-usb-keyboard-black-160cm-cable-44378

So I shouldn't get any of those keyboards since there is no way to tell me the qualilty of their scissor switches?

I guess there are no compact keyboards with full-size keys and rubber dome switches?

Maybe the closest I can get to a compact keyboard with rubber dome switches would be the Logitech Compact keyboard K300:

[False_Dmitry_II]

I think you misunderstood. The upstroke noise we are talking about is the noise even linear cherries do when reaching the very end of the travel during the upstroke. Hitting whatever "stop" is inside the switch makes quite a bit of noise, especially if you release the key by sliding your finger off of it.

 
I did indeed then. I think that kind of noise would be there for almost all switches, since that would be the spring pushing the moving part/slider up and into/against the unmoving upper switch housing. You could try to put a thin piece of something in between the slider and the upper casing. That might do it. Depending on how thick it is, it would also limit just how much travel there is. It would also possibly hold the spring in a more compressed state that its used to. But certainly theoretically possible to do.