Opinions on the KBC Poker?

[TheChillburger]

I recently snagged the M13 in my sig for $20 and am pretty taken by the mechanical keyboard flu currently
Now that I have a good tactile board, I'm hankering for a Cherry Black board as a portable gaming board. Do you think the Poker could fit the bill? I love the Happy Hacking-style function key setup and the small size, and the price is nice as well.

[Arcanius]

The build quality isn't anywhere close to that of an M, but apparently a foam mod (as posted in the KBC Poker with Blues and PBT keys review) will reduce flex, and make it much more consistent.
The board is meant to be protable, not a weapon like IBM boards.
Somewhere in the forum is an AutoHotKey script that emulates the layout, if you want to try that out.

[redpill]

If you don't use right cntrl/shift buttons the layout works pretty well.  The PCB mounted cherries have a nice feel to them.  It's a little on the flimsy side for $100, but regardless it's a fun little keyboard to type on.

[Aznguyen316]

I'm awaiting my poker reds in the mail, but the flimsy talk is a little concerning. Is it kb flex you notice while typing on it or just flex if you pick it up and twist the ends? If it's while typing then damn, must be really flimsy :/

[TheChillburger]

Ah, well that's is a bit sad to hear of the build quality
I'd like to buy a board that would last me for years, so I might hold out for the Deck 82 or a Filco Tenkeyless instead.

[mmmty]

My first impression was it felt like plastic toy. But it's really not that bad. I have 2 of them. It flexes a little if you use your hands to twist it.

[daerid]

As soon as the group buy comes in, I'll have 3. I love these things. Super tiny and easy to hack on. I'll probably be posting a review of the Poker w/ Blacks as a portable gaming board, since that's what I ordered it for.

[redpill]

I'd like to buy a board that would last me for years, so I might hold out for the Deck 82 or a Filco Tenkeyless instead.

There's always Topre if you have the coin.

[IvanIvanovich]

I love my Poker. It is my favorite. It does no flex for me for typing, only if you pick it up and do it on purpose. But I am also a light typist on red switch, so I am not hulk smashing keys into bottom. Since its so small there isn't that bounce like my old g80-3000 had.
I find the build quality sufficient, but I would have been happier with a lower price tag. It's not really $110 worth of keyboard, but like mitx you pay more for a smaller package.

[REVENGE]

The PCB flex could be a blessing or a curse, it really depends on your typing style and personal preferences. While the flexing PCB might reduce the tactility of tactile switches, it also dampens their sound and makes the keyboard quieter. And as Arcanius suggests, you can do a foam mod to reduced flexing significantly (check my review).

[sordna]

The case has struts that are supposed to prevent flex, they actually work pretty well, except near the top row in mine... there was apparently a gap between the PCB and these struts, and what bothered me the most was not the imperceptible flex, but a pretty loud noise when I typed in the top 2 rows of the keyboard. At first I thought one of the keyboard legs was off, it sounded like the noise you get when a keyboard wobbles due to an uneven standing surface. I would hear this thud noise way before the tactile bump of the blues was reached! So I did the foam mod, and even put a thin piece of foam completely over the top strut, which eliminated the noise. I don't really notice any flex. It's a very fun board, I don't regret buying it, although I'm not nearly as productive on it as I am on a Kinesis Advantage. I bought the Poker for the portability, and for practicing QWERTY, since all my Kinesis boards are set to Dvorak.

[oddsratio]

I noticed the flex at first as well, but I tightened up the screws that held the PCB to the case and it reduced it noticeably. The others are right-- all you get is a PCB and a case, but neither is bad quality. The case is pretty sturdy. It's just very lightweight. The keycaps leave a little to be desired, as they're a bit plasticky, but that's what groupbuys are for. I have a bias for PBT now though. I just traded it for a leopold and the typing experience isn't that much different using the same keys. I almost didn't want to get rid of it because it is a neat and versatile keyboard. I miss the arrow keys on the lower right side.

You don't notice any flex while you're typing, if that's your concern, but if you pound at the keys like you would a buckling spring, it might be too delicate for your tastes.

[daerid]

Just picked up a red switch with PBT caps from weipm today. This one flexes much less than my brown switch poker (which I believe is from an earlier run). I'm not sure why it is, but I like it just the same. The cherry style stabilizers are still annoying tho.

[Aznguyen316]

I must say the flex in this thread scared me, however I also got my PBT red switch poker in and very happy with the build.  My first mechanical keyboard was a filco I got recently and that was built tough.  This is a much lighter keyboard but the keys feel solid.  The red switch btw from just tapping the keys around feel great.  I love the slight feel of resistance and push back it gives over the browns.

[sordna]

The cherry style stabilizers are still annoying tho.

Totally agree, they feel like having a bad o-ring mod... they feel very different than the normal unstabilized keys. I wonder if Leopold stabilized keys (also using cherry stabilizers) feel the same as the Poker's.

[REVENGE]

That's awesome, the top row of my Poker actually pings, LOUDLY, post-mod. I love it, don't know what the fuss from other people is about.

[sordna]

That's awesome, the top row of my Poker actually pings, LOUDLY, post-mod. I love it, don't know what the fuss from other people is about.

Does the ping last over a second after you release the key? Like a tuning fork?

[REVENGE]

Does the ping last over a second after you release the key? Like a tuning fork?

No, only my Qtronix does that. :wink: After all, this is a PCB mounted board with foam under it.

[Aznguyen316]

Figured I'd post my question in here as to not clutter with another thread regarding the KBC Poker.

Anyone having trouble getting ctrl + 3 and on to register anything?  It only reads ctrl + 1 and ctrl + 2 but no other number keys... doesn't work via capslock control either via dipswitch 2.  I'm in OSX also btw.

Can't map any hot keys to them and I did secondary test via this http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/content/projects/KeyboardGhostingDemo.aspx

[heedpantsnow]

I can do ctrl+3 just fine on mine.  In Windows.  Sorry all the USB ports broke on my Macbook.  I'll save my Apple rant for another day. :-)

[Aznguyen316]

^ thanks I'll test in windows (bootcamp) and see what's up =/

[Philth]

Love mine. Bottoming out reds on the pcb gives a satisfying sound/feeling. Layout is pretty intuitive and not too bad at all to get used to.

[Aznguyen316]

I can do ctrl+3 just fine on mine.  In Windows.  Sorry all the USB ports broke on my Macbook.  I'll save my Apple rant for another day. :-)

Under windows ctrl + 3-0 work so yeah it's something with recognition in OSX with the KB.. but it's all good.

[iMav]

The build quality is great IMHO.  As others mentioned here, it is light weight...switches mounted on a PCB, which is then securely attached directly to the bottom of the case.

I'm quite smitten with them thus far.

[steeef]

I've got no issues at all with the build quality. The layout isn't that awesome, but it's workable. My biggest gripe so far is that the tilde-ESC key can't be switched correctly. You're supposed to be able to use FN+Q to swap Esc and Tilde (so the key functions as Esc normally, but will send `/~ with the Fn key), however toggling this makes it always send Esc, Fn key or no. It's a known bug apparently. I had to swap the keys in Autohotkey to get it set the way I want.

[steeef]

I should also mention that because it doesn't support n-key rollover, you can't do something like create your own Fn key and expect 4-key combinations to work.

[REVENGE]

6 keys + 3 modifiers work fine.

[steeef]

Hmm, interesting. My test was with using CapsLock as the Fn key. I couldn't do combinations like Ctrl-Alt-Home with it.

[Arcanius]

Controller issues again?

Wait, how did you make Caps Lock > Fn?

[steeef]

Using AutoHotkey. I use a script based on Squeezeboard:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6491

It worked fine on my Filco Tenkeyless, but I can't get more than 3 keys to work with this combination.

[Arcanius]

That's weird, it should all work, if the script is well written. Can you try an autohotkey test on the non-working combos, with the AHK script not running? That would diagnose if it's a keyboard problem or an AHK one.

Also, check that your DIP switches aren't changing Caps to Ctrl? I don't know what else to say.

[steeef]

you mean a rollover test on http://rollover.geekhack.org? Looks like 6-key rollover works fine, but not with capslock. I left out that I used SharpKeys to remap the CapsLock key to backspace, which might have something to do with it.

[Arcanius]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say autohotkeytest, I meant an aquakey test, if you have the program, it's free on the web
The GH test should be fine too. EDIT: No, GH test doesn't detect Caps Lock binded as Backspace with Sharpkeys for me either, try Aquakey!

Sharpkeys uses registry changes, right? Hit the dip switch to switch CTRL and Caps, then try the test again, to see if it works with a Ctrl scancode instead of Capslock.

[sordna]

Using AutoHotkey. I use a script based on Squeezeboard:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6491

yes but you can't control the Poker's FN with software, it doesn't send any keycode to the computer. I guess you're saying you did your own custom "FN" implementation, right?

[Arcanius]

He's using that script with Caps Lock binded as Fn.

[eyesnine]

+1 for the layout not being that great.

The navigation keys (pgup/dn, home, end) should be available on the left hand as well as the right. There's definitely enough unmapped keys to make it happen.

Also, the arrow lock function requires me to take my hands off the home row to use the arrows with my right hand - another negative.

I didn't realize that it didn't have any feet when I ordered it. Now, I know that's a plus to some, but I like to type at an angle. Right now I have it on a wrist wrest to get the angle right, which is actually a better solution than any feet I've ever used, so that really makes my point irrelevant...

Still, despite a few little complaints, I use a Poker w/ Browns as my main keyboard. It's decent.

[sordna]

He's using that script with Caps Lock binded as Fn.

That's impossible (if you are talking about the Poker's FN). The O/S is not aware of the Poker's FN key. The article he pointed to, talks about simulating some "FN" functionality, providing a custom 2nd layer (not the Poker's FN layer).

[REVENGE]

That's impossible (if you are talking about the Poker's FN). The O/S is not aware of the Poker's FN key. The article he pointed to, talks about simulating some "FN" functionality, providing a custom 2nd layer (not the Poker's FN layer).

He means using it as a virtual "Fn" key within autohotkey.

Caps Lock works perfectly fine with 5 other keys in Aqua's Key Test.

[aegrotatio]

The keyboard is exactly as I expected.  I am very pleased.  I will be happy to retire my HHKB-Lite2 and -Lite for a pair of these, especially since the layout is close enough with the FN key remap feature.  Keybounce is handled very nicely, too, a pleasant surprise.

[didjamatic]

I have a tough time with the lack of dedicated delete key.  I delete.  A lot.

[nhwhaup]

I have one coming in the mail so I don't have it in my hands yet.  

Quick question for any who have done the foam mod - how do you get the back off?  Is it screwed in from the back or from underneath the keys somewhere?  Basically where are the screws and how do I get to them?

[heedpantsnow]

I have one coming in the mail so I don't have it in my hands yet.  

Quick question for any who have done the foam mod - how do you get the back off?  Is it screwed in from the back or from underneath the keys somewhere?  Basically where are the screws and how do I get to them?

There are a few (5) under the keys.  You don't have to take all the keys off, just L.Tab, L.Caps, Fn, (maybe spacebar), ], \, Enter, and R. Shift.  They have loctite blue on them, so you need a very small phillips head screwdriver and a bit of force.

[Aznguyen316]

I have a tough time with the lack of dedicated delete key.  I delete.  A lot.

have you tried remapping delete to \ key? I've done that on my MacBooks since apple keyboards do not have a dedicted forward delete key.

[sordna]

I re-did the foam mod today, in a different manner. I was getting some noise from the PCB hitting against the case struts on the lower part of the keyboard this time. So I took the thick foam strips out and instead put a very thin sheet of foam over the entire bottom of the case, opening holes for the screws. It quieted all the noise now, I'm very happy with the outcome. The problem with the pokers is they lack screws around the center of the PCB, so the PCB is not sitting tightly on the case struts, and as you type the PCB flexes and bumps on these struts making a noise. I've experienced this noise with both the Pokers that passed through my hands. Putting this thin foam under the entire PCB took care of this for me.
Can't understand why they didn't put a couple extra screws, the PCB has unused room in several spots, that could be easily drilled through.

[pm_]

My biggest gripe so far is that the tilde-ESC key can't be switched correctly.

+1

Also, it irritates me that I can't FN the lower right arrow layer. You have to lock it instead, and then you can't use the FN key to use the primary layer for those keys (Windows, ****, CTRL etc.)  At  the same time, being able to FN the lower right arrow layer would mean no single handed FN+Shift+Insert or FN+Shift+Delete etc. (Insert and Delete are on the second layer, so you have to use FN to access them). It'd be nice if there was a way for us to install updated firmware on these keyboards to resolve some of these issues.

Anyway, I'd probably find things to gripe about with any keyboard.  I currently like my Pokers more than the Ducky 1087 or Leo TKL (both browns). It's a matter of preference, but to me, the size and feel are superior on the poker vs both of those keyboards.  You just have to get used to accessing the second layer, and know the quirks. I'm satisfied with the build quality on mine and don't any ping issues...the pitch might be a little different between some of the rows, but the sound is still very similar.

[nhwhaup]

I'm sure I will find some idiosyncrasies that I don't like about this keyboard but so far (just received it today) I am really liking it. I love that it almost doesn't even look like a real keyboard. It feels so light that I tend to pick it up hard and forget that it is as light as a feather. For my other keyboards with the red switches, I did the mod with the soft landing pads. I tried them also with this board and then ended up removing them. I didn't like the feel on this board with the pads. I kind of like the bottoming out sound of the keys on the PBC. Surely no pinging on this board. I didn't really notice any flex but did the foam mod just in case. It was a pain in the butt getting those tiny screws back in.  

I do agree with pm though. I also would have liked to be able to use the arrow keys with the function key rather than having to lock it with the space bar. That is a little weird for me and doesn't make a lot of sense. Well I guess it would if you didn't need to use the right shift key.

[redpill]

I find the cherry brown switches to feel far nicer on the PCB-mounted Poker than on a plate mounted board.  They feel much more floaty, like typing on a bowl of rice krispies with what seems like a nicer recoil than plate mounted browns.  And bottoming out on the PCB is not the same harsh experience of smacking into a metal plate.

I would have preferred a normal-sized up arrow key with a shortened right shift, as I rarely use the modifiers on the right hand side of the board, but all in all it's a great little board, very portable and satisfying to type on.

[heedpantsnow]

I find the cherry brown switches to feel far nicer on the PCB-mounted Poker than on a plate mounted board.  They feel much more floaty, like typing on a bowl of rice krispies with what seems like a nicer recoil than plate mounted browns.  And bottoming out on the PCB is not the same harsh experience of smacking into a metal plate.

I would have preferred a normal-sized up arrow key with a shortened right shift, as I rarely use the modifiers on the right hand side of the board, but all in all it's a great little board, very portable and satisfying to type on.

RP, I think you really hit the nail on the head there.  The browns feel less 'jarring' on PCB vs. plate.  I tend to bottom out, and this is especially true for me.  Thanks for your insight!

[itlnstln]

I'm a big proponent of PCB-mounted Cherrys. Too bad the Poker and Cherry Corp. 'boards are the only ones that have PCB-mounted switches.

[nhwhaup]

I re-did the foam mod today, in a different manner. I was getting some noise from the PCB hitting against the case struts on the lower part of the keyboard this time. So I took the thick foam strips out and instead put a very thin sheet of foam over the entire bottom of the case, opening holes for the screws. It quieted all the noise now, I'm very happy with the outcome. The problem with the pokers is they lack screws around the center of the PCB, so the PCB is not sitting tightly on the case struts, and as you type the PCB flexes and bumps on these struts making a noise. I've experienced this noise with both the Pokers that passed through my hands. Putting this thin foam under the entire PCB took care of this for me.
Can't understand why they didn't put a couple extra screws, the PCB has unused room in several spots, that could be easily drilled through.

Okay quick question for you - with the full piece of foam, how did you get the keyboard to screw down and stay flat? I found that after putting a fairly thin piece of overall foam, where the screws are located the keys are pulled nice and tight but the other areas of the keyboard where there are no screws, is a little puffed up. I totally like the feel with the foam but not so crazy above the puffed up almost wave like look going on.  Any suggestions other than removing the foam? I've tried loosening up the screws a bit but that helps a bit but not totally.