After going through 7 keyboards I've gone back to the Rubberdome...

[Reason]

So I was recently on a hunt for the perfect *mechanical keyboard*

The order goes like this:
1.Blue (Filco Majestouch 104)
2.Brown (Filco majestouch 2 Ninja TKL)
3.Clear (G80-8113LRCUS-0)
4.Buckling Spring (IBM Model M 1391401)
5.Black (Borrowed my friend's Steelseries 7g)
6.Red (Borrowed my friend's Filco majestouch 2)
7.Black alps (ABS M1)

and yes I've gone through these keyboards in about 2~3 months but none of these have satisfied me

I think I like the Buckling Spring the best out of all the mechanical keyboards but it is quite hard to play SC2 with it...
I sold and gave away all my other mechanical keyboards except the Model M because I absolutely love typing on it

but I did find a perfect keyboard for me and it is surprisingly a rubber dome keyboard!

and the keyboard is Qsenn DT35

I bet a lot of you know about this keyboard and will probably laugh at it.. (i've seen some hate against rubberdomes here :redface:)
but so far I think this is the best keyboard I've used for SC2!

It is without a doubt a very cheap membrane keyboard and I could smell the cheap plastic when I opened up the box lol :attention:
and it does feel flimsy compared to Filco or other Mechanical keyboard I've used.

You guys might say that it is no different from other cheap rubber dome keyboards from logitech, microsoft or HP
but I really think that this keyboard feels different and outstanding!
I've compared the dt35 with other cheap ass rubberdome keyboards I had in my house (one from HP and one from logitech)
and the keys on DT35 feel different when pressed. I'm not sure if it feels different because the keyboard is new but it feels a lot
more snappier than other rubberdome keyboards I've used in the past.

The texture on the keycaps feel quite unique as well and I think it makes DT35 unique and better than other rubberdomes...  
The texture is kind of rough but pleasant to the touch and they are *sadly* pad printed (cheap lol) but they feel very fresh on my fingers.

I've thought that all rubberdome keyboards felt awful (had a really bad experience with Razer lycosa... yuk!)
but dt35 really got me attached to it

I really tried to like the mechanical keyboards but I just couldn't... and I absolutely could not use them for SC2
I mean I know it's just a personal preference and it's kind of weird that I prefer this cheap $10 keyboard over expensive mechanical ones...
But, I think I'm definitely going to keep the dt35 and the Model M and use them for a while unless I find a better keyboard in the future! :smile:

So far: Model M and DT35 are the winners!!

this leads me to thinking that I should maybe try the topre LOL because it is kind of the combination between BS and Rubberdome... :wacko:
and thus, another journey begins... :typing:

[Tony]

The thought of perfection kills you.

Every switch or keyboard is fine in its own way, and by comparing each keyboard with something perfect in your head, you make your life miserable, since you will never be satisfied.

You always feel you are missing something by comparing. That feeling make you either a hoarder, trying to get every keyboard you can afford, or a bad loser, by choosing the worst that you can get, since in your mind all things are not perfect so get the worst can be very fulfilling.

[Reason]

The thought of perfection kills you.

Every switch or keyboard is fine in its own way, and by comparing each keyboard with something perfect in your head, you make your life miserable, since you will never be satisfied.

You always feel you are missing something by comparing. That feeling make you either a hoarder, trying to get every keyboard you can afford, or a bad loser, by choosing the worst that you can get, since in your mind all things are not perfect so get the worst can be very fulfilling.

So you are trying to call me a loser for honestly liking a cheap keyboard lol? I think I have a better life than a person who believes that keyboards represent the quality of one's life and state of mind.

[Findecanor]

Some prefer mechs, some prefer domes. Good that you have found something that you like.
I am still hunting for that perfect switch, but I like the Clears the most so far.

3.Clear (Cherry G81-7910HPBUS)

A G81-series keyboard with Clears ? ...

[elef]

If you use a rubber dome keyboard you'll have replace it pretty regularly because they wear out and become mushy. I guess it depends on the quality of the rubber and the usage, but they can get ****ty in a year or so. Other than that, enjoy the fact that you don't need to spend a fortune on keyboards to get what you want. I like the expensive Filcos, unfortunately.

[TheProfosist]

every try a topre? some say those those feel too rubber domey for their tastes...

[REVENGE]

every try a topre? some say those those feel too rubber domey for their tastes...

It IS a rubber dome. There are lots of different rubber dome and rubber dome based boards out there, although it seems the Qsenn is a pretty good one. Try a topre board if you can afford it, or a rubber dome Model M.

[TheProfosist]

It IS a rubber dome. There are lots of different rubber dome and rubber dome based boards out there, although it seems the Qsenn is a pretty good one. Try a topre board if you can afford it, or a rubber dome Model M.

it is a rubber dome with a spring underneath it and depending on the model some foam and i believe they refer to them as capacitive switches . I think they also do make a plain rubber dome HHKB called the Lite. i dont know how the rubber domes on it are though...

[Johannes]

Be an early adopter, beat the herd. Choose rubber domes today!
Seriourly though, from my experience with Cherry Browns, well, screw them. Blues, bucklings etc are too loud, and Topres are too expensive, so I'm settling on domes as well. I actually type faster on most domes than on the Browns.
Domes vary wildly in quality, there are some gems out there to be explored.

[TheProfosist]

Be an early adopter, beat the herd. Choose rubber domes today!
Seriourly though, from my experience with Cherry Browns, well, screw them. Blues, bucklings etc are too loud, and Topres are too expensive, so I'm settling on domes as well. I actually type faster on most domes than on the Browns.
Domes vary wildly in quality, there are some gems out there to be explored.

do you tend to bottom out when you type?
also have you looked into reds (light liner), clears (very tactile), blacks (linear). youn might like blacks or clears as they have a stronger spring and should help with not bottoming out which should increase typing speed.

[Johannes]

do you tend to bottom out when you type?
also have you looked into reds (light liner), clears (very tactile), blacks (linear). youn might like blacks or clears as they have a stronger spring and should help with not bottoming out which should increase typing speed.

I don't usually bottom out, but when typing at my full speed I do bottom out a lot, which is very noisy on the Filco, which is actually the reason I don't type at my full speed anymore.
Clears indeed seem nice, but it doesn't seem there is even a proper tenkeyless Clears board available. Also, from what I've read, they are even noisier than Browns.
Go domes!

[TheProfosist]

are browns noisy? i have only had first had experience with Black, Reds and Blues. no noise on the blacks/reds really unless you bottom out (going to give EK Firm Pads a try) and blues well there just loud because of the click mechanism. you could try the pads or O ring mod to quiet down your bottoming out.

[Aznguyen316]

Glad u found a KB u like! Personally I don't know what Tony's deal is. Anyway I've seen some Korean pros rock a qsenn in sc2 so yeah man.

[Johannes]

are browns noisy? i have only had first had experience with Black, Reds and Blues. no noise on the blacks/reds really unless you bottom out (going to give EK Firm Pads a try) and blues well there just loud because of the click mechanism. you could try the pads or O ring mod to quiet down your bottoming out.

The Brown switches are silent (save for vibration) but the bottom-out and "top-out" noise (plus general keycap rattle) is substantial on the Filcos. Certainly a lot louder than any dome or scissor board I've used.

[TheProfosist]

The Brown switches are silent (save for vibration) but the bottom-out and "top-out" noise (plus general keycap rattle) is substantial on the Filcos. Certainly a lot louder than any dome or scissor board I've used.

are filcos plate mounted or pcb? also are you worried about the sound that much? Vs the better key/switch feedback?

[Johannes]

Plate mounted. Yeah, sound is #1 factor for me, just above feel. Browns are fairly nice for soft, slow typing, but when I crank it up to my max typing speed, I invetiably bottom out a lot because Browns have near-zero tactility, and thus make a racket of obnoxious clacking. Switching away from domes has thus only been a detriment to my typing speed.

[TheProfosist]

then yo would would have to probably go with a Topre Silent which really get up there in price. i guess stick with a regular old rubber dome then if sound is your highest concern... i guess how i view it that other things are a lot louder...

[Johannes]

Yeah, the Filco is the only board I've ever had that's annoying sound-wise, and I've used a bunch of domes and scissors. Topres are too expensive so domes still win.

i guess how i view it that other things are a lot louder...

Soft music on speakers is pretty much ruined by the Filco clackfest.

[Rosh]

I am really surprised by the amount of praise the dt-35 still gets. My brother had one a while ago and I tried for a day, didn't feel any difference to the Cherry rubber dome I was using at the time.

Anyway I've seen some Korean pros rock a qsenn in sc2 so yeah man.

The hype around the dt-35 comes from the early broodwar days. Back then it was mostly played in pc-bangs which were equipped mostly equipped with the cheapest stuff they could get. Today a dt-35 is about 15 euros on ebay, I think the price back then would be something like 5 euros today. Anyway, almost all the pros started playing at pc bangs so they just continued to use it and simply bought nothing else for the teams they founded. Thus the younger progamers started using it as well and still do today.

So the dt-35 was mainly just cheap and available. It's almost the same story for the Logitech Mini Optical.

Additionally the dt-35 of today is produced and sold as a gamer's edition, I guess it is supposed to justify the higher price.

[N8N]

I don't usually bottom out, but when typing at my full speed I do bottom out a lot, which is very noisy on the Filco, which is actually the reason I don't type at my full speed anymore.
Clears indeed seem nice, but it doesn't seem there is even a proper tenkeyless Clears board available. Also, from what I've read, they are even noisier than Browns.
Go domes!

Correction - other than Deck, there isn't *any* clears board available, save for used Cherry boards.

I find clears much *quieter* than browns because I'm not bottoming out.  Really, at work I can now type more quietly than the people around me who are using Dell RD keyboards and bottoming out on them - the new ones that shipped with the computers we just got last month are really noisy!  However I find the browns way too loud because I can't help but bottom out on them all the time.

BTW it's been a couple weeks since taking the clears board to work and my hands feel much better now.

I really wish there were a quality, standard-format board that used normal keycaps (e.g. Filco, Leopold, etc.) that had the option of clear switches.  I would buy one today.  I think the main thing turning me off from the Deck is the non-contoured keycaps and the goofy font.

[Mazora]

Qsenn DT35 has a nice numpad, very useful in certain situation i would say. Good luck !

[Ascaii]

3.Clear (Cherry G81-7910HPBUS)

You seem to have made a mistake common to other cherry virgins...though the stem might be "clear", a g81 board uses the cherry MY switch, which is a hammer over membrane design with a horrible feel.
As for your choice...you could do worse. In the end it is a personal decision and im glad you took the time to test what you could.
If the rubber dome feel just does it for you I can recommend you also check out the following boards:
Keytronic boards
IBM M4
Dell Quiettouch
IBM Model M rubber dome variant

[N8N]

but the good news is that HPBUS = doubleshots!

If I didn't already have the exact same damn board just w/o card reader, I'd offer to buy it off you, or trade you for a board with real MX clears.  (I can always get another)

try here for real clears

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-MX-8000-POS-card-swipe-keyboard-PS2-WHITE-SWITCH-/330590827681

[Mazora]

I like the feeling of a brandnew robberdome keyboard, its just that after a while, its just doesnt feel right anymore

[The Solutor]

Sorry wrong post

[Jago]

Since you're an SC2 player, you might want to know that oGsMC recently threw away his DT35 and is now using a fullsize Topre Realforce.

[MasterBlaster]

Since you're an SC2 player, you might want to know that oGsMC recently threw away his DT35 and is now using a fullsize Topre Realforce.

with all the respect sir thats crap , he uses DT35(seen his keyboard at the last foreign events)It s the same with Flash when people said he used Seleritas.Truth be told keyboards dont make you a better player in 99.9% of the times

[keyboardlover]

OP hasn't tried Topre...

[kinkng]

It IS a rubber dome. There are lots of different rubber dome and rubber dome based boards out there, although it seems the Qsenn is a pretty good one. Try a topre board if you can afford it, or a rubber dome Model M.

 
I second this. The IBM Model M rubber dome is one of the better rubber domes out there. Reason, if you want an IBM Rubber dome, PM me and I can give you one if you just pay for the shipping. I have 6 of them and I don't need that many.

[sordna]

Yeah, the Filco is the only board I've ever had that's annoying sound-wise, and I've used a bunch of domes and scissors. Topres are too expensive so domes still win.

Soft music on speakers is pretty much ruined by the Filco clackfest.

Try the o-ring mod. Not only it eliminates the bottom-out noise, the right o-rings improve the feel as well (click "o-ring" in my sig for the exact specs to get).

[Chobopants]

@Reason -

I have to agree with you that I actually prefer RDs for Starcraft....but they're Topres! I highly recommend you give them a go before you 100% decide on the Qsenn. I think you'll also love the feel of the keycaps. I played SC2 for many months on my Filco brown, avoiding my Realforce because the black on light black keys were unreadable in low lighting, and thought that was the perfect keyboard for me.

After getting my blue keycaps and being able to read the legends on my Realforce I absolutely fell in love with the 55g Topres for SC2. It's pretty much perfect. I would highly recommend trying it out before you write off nicer keyboards.

@MasterBlaster -

With all due respect, YOU'RE wrong.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Pro_gear

oGs   MC   Jang Min Chul   Topre Realforce

So, yeah. I think July also uses a Realforce but he's not listed on this page. Notice that much less than half of the players listed here use the Qsenn. Again, it was popular because it was cheap, available, and functional. It's an ok board if you love it be my guest but there's really nothing special about it.

[Aznguyen316]

Try the o-ring mod. Not only it eliminates the bottom-out noise, the right o-rings improve the feel as well (click "o-ring" in my sig for the exact specs to get).

Is it the soft Buna-N O-rings?.  BTW are the o-rings similar to the soft landing pads?  Do you need to physically do anything besides add the little rings around the switch?  I'm interested since I find myself bottoming out a lot on the red switches.

Found a link on youtube.. so I'm watching now haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79rWQ-CU9Lw

[sordna]

Is it the soft Buna-N O-rings?.  BTW are the o-rings similar to the soft landing pads?  Do you need to physically do anything besides add the little rings around the switch?  I'm interested since I find myself bottoming out a lot on the red switches.

Found a link on youtube.. so I'm watching now haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79rWQ-CU9Lw

Yes, McMaster-Carr part number is 2418T114. Very easy to install, roll them over the keycap stems. Better feeling the soft-landing pads which are too soft/mushy.

[Aznguyen316]

I see, thanks sordna, I may have to try it then.

[MasterBlaster]

@Reason -


@MasterBlaster -

With all due respect, YOU'RE wrong.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Pro_gear

oGs   MC   Jang Min Chul   Topre Realforce

yeah sir , eat all the marketing garbage , i ve seen MC keyboard at last MLG he was and HomeStory cup and it was a Qsenn

[Reason]

Ohhh I just realized that I wrote down the wrong model number for the Cherry Clear Keyboard I've bought for $40 on ebay
It was G80-8113LRCUS-0 not the G81... I thought it felt nice at first but it was really mushy... and stiff (almost as stiff as the Model M but without that nice snappy feeling)

I really really want to try the Topre... it's just too expensive

@Reason -

I have to agree with you that I actually prefer RDs for Starcraft....but they're Topres! I highly recommend you give them a go before you 100% decide on the Qsenn. I think you'll also love the feel of the keycaps. I played SC2 for many months on my Filco brown, avoiding my Realforce because the black on light black keys were unreadable in low lighting, and thought that was the perfect keyboard for me.

After getting my blue keycaps and being able to read the legends on my Realforce I absolutely fell in love with the 55g Topres for SC2. It's pretty much perfect. I would highly recommend trying it out before you write off nicer keyboards.

@MasterBlaster -

With all due respect, YOU'RE wrong.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Pro_gear

oGs   MC   Jang Min Chul   Topre Realforce

So, yeah. I think July also uses a Realforce but he's not listed on this page. Notice that much less than half of the players listed here use the Qsenn. Again, it was popular because it was cheap, available, and functional. It's an ok board if you love it be my guest but there's really nothing special about it.

Show Image

oh my those blue keycaps look sexy :eek:

[Jago]

The first obvious question is: how exactly are you finding time to actually LOOK at your keyboard during games of SC2?
The 2nd obvious question is: why?

[Chobopants]

yeah sir , eat all the marketing garbage , i ve seen MC keyboard at last MLG he was and HomeStory cup and it was a Qsenn

Man, you have an attitude don't you? I saw a shot of MC at a recent GSL and he was using a Realforce. Dunno, maybe he uses both? At the least, he has spent a good amount of time with one. Regardless, I've used both a QSenn and a Realforce and, if you're a pro gamer especially, I find the choice pretty clear.

The first obvious question is: how exactly are you finding time to actually LOOK at your keyboard during games of SC2?
The 2nd obvious question is: why?

I mouse left-handed. Due to putting my right hand on the left side of the keyboard all of my regular touch typing knowledge goes out the window. I've picked up a good amount of touch typing ability for having my right hand on that side of the board and RARELY have to look at my board but when I do, it's absolutely critical that I can position my hand instantly. I average around 120 SC2 APM, spiking to 250-300 in battles so it doesn't hurt me that much. It's most often when I do something like have to hit "I" for an Immortal or "P" for Patrol (I should really remap those) and then have to put my hand back into its "home" position.

[RiGS]

Ohhh I just realized that I wrote down the wrong model number for the Cherry Clear Keyboard I've bought for $40 on ebay
It was G80-8113LRCUS-0 not the G81... I thought it felt nice at first but it was really mushy... and stiff (almost as stiff as the Model M but without that nice snappy feeling)

I really really want to try the Topre... it's just too expensive



oh my those blue keycaps look sexy

Indeed, those are awesome, though the colour is more like this.

[Jago]

I mouse left-handed. Due to putting my right hand on the left side of the keyboard all of my regular touch typing knowledge goes out the window. I've picked up a good amount of touch typing ability for having my right hand on that side of the board and RARELY have to look at my board but when I do, it's absolutely critical that I can position my hand instantly. I average around 120 SC2 APM, spiking to 250-300 in battles so it doesn't hurt me that much. It's most often when I do something like have to hit "I" for an Immortal or "P" for Patrol (I should really remap those) and then have to put my hand back into its "home" position.

Sounds like using the Grid keyboard mappings for SC2 would help you a fair bit.

[flashstar]

I'd recommend that the OP try blue complicated ALPS switches. Nothing that I have tried compares to the feel of real blue switches. The main difference is that the switch moves much more smoothly before and after the activation point, while still requiring 65 grams of force to activate. The result is keyboarding heaven.

I would have to disagree when it comes to SC2 though. I have found that the Model M works much better for me in SC2 than practically any other keyboard. Perhaps it is because the activation points are so precise with buckling springs... I don't know. Either that or I just am not used to playing SC2 on a blue ALPS board yet.

[wompwomp]

Does the qsenn really feel different than other rubber domes? how so?

[Chobopants]

Sounds like using the Grid keyboard mappings for SC2 would help you a fair bit.

Eh, almost all the default keys work just fine for me, it's just a few of the odd ones out of the way. Hitting keys really isn't a problem for me, I hit plenty high APM while in battles and only need to glance when hitting a few random keys that I can remap. I use a blank board at work all day and have no problems typing at 100-140wpm. It's just for right hand placement in SC2 for a quick glance once in a while. It didn't stop me from being top 100 at WC3 so it really doesn't bother me. It's just the way it is for me and I'm ok with that.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Seems to me like these guys are trying out a bunch of different cherry boards and then claiming that all mech boards ever are all crap.

And then proceeding to use not even one of the generally recognized as good rubber domes here.

Did you try any alps? Space invaders? Heck, fujitsu peerless? Anything else?

[TexasFlood]

I have no idea what the DT35 is like and not likely to find out soon, BUT it does seem to be waterproof, :wink:

[The Solutor]

I have no idea what the DT35 is like and not likely to find out soon, BUT it does seem to be waterproof, :wink:


The QL's keyboars, likely the first rubber dome, was marketed as spill proof, and was 27 years ago...

Show Image

Show Image

[ch_123]

Supposedly the notorious Chiclet keyboard of the PCjr was rubber dome, albeit rubber dome over PCB.

EDIT: Turns out the Sinclair came out before the PC Jr by a few months. I wonder whose keyboard was designed first though

[Reason]

Seems to me like these guys are trying out a bunch of different cherry boards and then claiming that all mech boards ever are all crap.

And then proceeding to use not even one of the generally recognized as good rubber domes here.

Did you try any alps? Space invaders? Heck, fujitsu peerless? Anything else?

I think you should learn how to read before posting your own biased opinion.

I've tried black alps and I didn't say anything about all mech boards being crap.

I stated that they simply didn't suit me. (I even mentioned that I really like the Model M.)

I'm actually thinking about buying a topre pretty soon if the 87s come back in stock on EK.

Next time, don't just read the title and post a hateful comment.

[The Solutor]

Do  you mean this one ?

[ch_123]

Yeah, I read descriptions of it being a standard rubber dome style switch, except using a mebrane instead of a PCB.

The latter one was also rubber dome, but had more sensible keycaps, and possibly bigger domes.