After going through 7 keyboards I've gone back to the Rubberdome...

[Magna224]

You haven't tried complicated white ALPS. I was not satisfied until I tried them then my world changed.

[The Solutor]

Yeah, I read descriptions of it being a standard rubber dome style switch, except using a mebrane instead of a PCB.

Looks embarrassingly similar to the Ti99's (not 4a) keyboard



 I haven't seen a dismantled photos of both, but from this photo doesn't look as a rubber dome.

[The Solutor]

You haven't tried complicated white ALPS. I was not satisfied until I tried them then my world changed.

They are nice because very close to the ergo clears, and also because cn be adapredd to various taste w/o the need of any soldering.

With a single kind of switches you can made them dampened/undampened clicky or not, and the tactility and be also adjusted just bending the leaf spring.

[Hydroid]

I agree with the OP. As I may have mentioned before that I bought a Qsenn DT-35 in late February and used it for about 2 months. During that time I really hammered it, clocking ~400 hours of SC2. And it was a great keyboard. While I now prefer my ducky with blues for typing, I plugged my Qsenn in the other day because a friend of mine didn't like not being able to see the letters on the keys, and then I played another game with it while he was there and I forgot how it just feels right when playing SC2. Its not nice when playing FPS, for some reason I found it just wasn't that great, whereas my Blues are amazing for shooters and typing. I'm used to my blues and am still using them for SC2, but I really do think there is just something about the Qsenn that works.

[False_Dmitry_II]

I think you should learn how to read before posting your own biased opinion.

You too. You weren't the only one who listed a bunch of cherry switches in this thread. It also is not an opinion that you specifically tried too few types of switches, almost all of which were from just cherry. Liking a model m, but just for typing, means that you will most likely eventually use just the rubber dome unless you keep both plugged in and have a spot to stick one or the other when switching. That also means you haven't found one that is ideal and you could use at any time.

It's also not an opinion that that particular rubber dome is just popular because it was cheap and available in korea. This is not a statement of quality, and in fact all I ever read about is that it is hyped for no reason. There was another post in this thread with a list of what are considered good rubber domes. I'd add the NMB rubber domes to that. Most likely of the RT6xxx series, but you'd probably want to look that up.

Next time, don't just read the title and post a hateful comment.

Lol. Yours was more. I'm just tired of most acting like cherry switches are the one and only kind. Apart from that, the model m gets mentioned so much because of its age status and reputation so it isn't surprising that it would be the first one run across besides cherry.

With a single kind of switches you can made them dampened/undampened clicky or not, and the tactility and be also adjusted just bending the leaf spring.

Yeah, they really are quite cusomizable. You can even toss the leaf entirely and get linear switches (if you're into that sort of thing).

[flashstar]

I think you should learn how to read before posting your own biased opinion.

I've tried black alps and I didn't say anything about all mech boards being crap.

I stated that they simply didn't suit me. (I even mentioned that I really like the Model M.)

I'm actually thinking about buying a topre pretty soon if the 87s come back in stock on EK.

Next time, don't just read the title and post a hateful comment.

When you post on a forum, you are asking for everyone to give their opinions. I don't see why Dmitri shouldn't be allowed to give his.

I can assure you though that you are missing out unless you have tried lubed/new complicated ALPS whites or complicated blues. No rubber dome could match these key switches.

To put this in perspective, my brother bought an Xarmor with cherry blues and it does not even compare to blue ALPS keyswitches. The cherries feel less stable, do not slide as smoothly, and are generally less satisfying to type on. Cherry Browns are awful in my opinion (they feel like rubber domes). Cherry blues are not bad switches, I just believe after comparing the two side-by-side that ALPS blues are superior.

I've tried many different keyboards (Ione Xarmor, Logitech G15, Lazer Lycosa, Model M, SteelSeries 7G) as well and none have even compared to complicated ALPS when it comes to non-gaming typing feel. I do not consider black ALPS to be as good as white ALPS. For gaming, the one exception so far is the Model M.

My point is that you should not rule out every mechanical keyboard just because the ones you have tried do not fit you well. It would be like trying out a few pairs of inexpensive shoes at a department store and concluding that the nicest pairs out there are no better...

[TheProfosist]

i dont get how any mechanical keyboard could feel remotely like a rubber dome. even topre switches which are part rubber dome feel night and  day different.

[ch_123]

 I haven't seen a dismantled photos of both, but from this photo doesn't look as a rubber dome.

From here

The PCjr keyboard has generated a fair bit of controversy. IBM calls the 62-key unit "a cordless, portable, hand-held device [utilizing] full travel, carbon contract/rubber dome technology for long wear and reliability.' Critics say it is a cheap, "Chiclet' keyboard, unworthy of a "real' computer, with the wireless business a superfluous gimmick. Who is right? Ask the blind man over there by the elephant.

...

 Game players, slouchers, and other relaxed individuals will find the cordlessness a godsend. There is nothing to stretch or break. Tabletop users have a choice of two tilt angles with two little flip-down legs on the underside of the keyboard. The dust-and spill-resistance should be quite high, since the entire interior is covered by a solid rubber sheet with molded-in domes.

 Glued to the underside of each dome is a little piece of carbon. When you press a key, it squishes the dome, the carbon makes contact with the underlying printed circuit card, and the keystroke is sensed by the keyboard microprocessor, which transmits the information to the system unit--simple, reliable, and cheap.

[isp]

You silly goose.  You didn't even try topre.

[noodles256]

-1

[flashstar]

You silly goose.  You didn't even try topre.

+1

[snowball]

To each there own. I don't really like the DT-35. Mine is on a server box in the basement. Maybe gets an hour of use a year.

[MrGPhantome]

Well from my experience, most new Rubber Dome keyboards feel pretty serviceable the first day of use. The main problem is the longevity, If you are heavy typist they wear very quickly. Even the higher quality domes in boards like Keytronic wear down much faster than any mechanical out there. Mechanical keyboards have consistency which is far more reliable than a first day feel.

[The Solutor]

Well from my experience, most new Rubber Dome keyboards feel pretty serviceable the first day of use. The main problem is the longevity, If you are heavy typist they wear very quickly. Even the higher quality domes in boards like Keytronic wear down much faster than any mechanical out there. Mechanical keyboards have consistency which is far more reliable than a first day feel.

This is completely untrue.

At least the tactile switches will wear surely depending on the number of activation, while the RD becomes mushy only if poor materials are used.

On heavy usage patterns a lot of RD will beat easily most of the tactile microswitch keyboard, with the exclusion of  buckling springs ones.

[ch_123]

Agreed. Comparing a year old Blue Cherry keyboard and a 10 year old Blue Cherry keyboard, you'd be forgiven for thinking they weren't the same switch.

[Johannes]

Well from my experience, most new Rubber Dome keyboards feel pretty serviceable the first day of use. The main problem is the longevity, If you are heavy typist they wear very quickly. Even the higher quality domes in boards like Keytronic wear down much faster than any mechanical out there. Mechanical keyboards have consistency which is far more reliable than a first day feel.

As The Solutor said (he's right for once) mech switches also wear. Also, they are much more expensive, so replacing a board is much less practical.

[RiGS]

Linear switches don't wear that much.

[hella]

This is completely untrue.

At least the tactile switches will wear surely depending on the number of activation, while the RD becomes mushy only if poor materials are used.

On heavy usage patterns a lot of RD will beat easily most of the tactile microswitch keyboard, with the exclusion of  buckling springs ones.

 
I gotta partially agree with this, if you want a mechanical keyboard for tactile feedback a rubber dome won't satisfy you.

[sordna]

One of my rubber dome keyboards (CKS) is rated better than cherry switches:

Conductive elastomer rubber designed for 60 million cycles

[MrGPhantome]

*snip

I'm not giving the impression that a mech switch board is immortal and consistant forever. However in general I would believe that a Mechanical board would last longer than your general run of the mill RD keyboard. Sure their are standouts like Keytronic and IBM M4s, but I would venture that most keyboard fall into the poor quality zone.

All I know is that my Keytronic I used didn't feel the same 3 months down the line while I my Apple Extended keyboard switch board easily lasted much longer before losing it's initial feeling.

*snip

The idea that you won't have to replace a mechanical keyboard often enough for it to become an issue.

[detriarch]

Where did u get ur dt 35 from and does urs have korean and english writing or jsut english on it ?

[ch_123]

One of my rubber dome keyboards (CKS) is rated better than cherry switches:

Conductive elastomer rubber designed for 60 million cycles

 
Some manufacturers have more believable ratings than others. Even the Cherry rating of 50 million is a bit dubious (once it was 20 million for tactile switches, then it was suddenly bumped up to 50...)

[The Solutor]

Some manufacturers have more believable ratings than others. Even the Cherry rating of 50 million is a bit dubious (once it was 20 million for tactile switches, then it was suddenly bumped up to 50...)

And even with the correct number we have still to understand what they mean.

What's lasting 20 or 50k actuations ? The contact, the whole switch ? What are the parameters taken in account ?

When someone says a "led last 100k hours" he should mean that the LED will still emit the 50% of the initial luminous flux, we have an universally accepted methodology.

What a bout the switches ?

A brown that act like a red is a working switch or not ?

[Multiple]

And even with the correct number we have still to understand what they mean.

What's lasting 20 or 50k actuations ? The contact, the whole switch ? What are the parameters taken in account ?

When someone says a "led last 100k hours" he should mean that the LED will still emit the 50% of the initial luminous flux, we have an universally accepted methodology.

What a bout the switches ?

A brown that act like a red is a working switch or not ?

 
The actuations are probably just that, actuations. A key-press; an actuation is registered.

Should take about 2 months to test a switch for 50 million actuations, 10 actuations per second.

[Findecanor]

What I have heard, and think is the most believable, is:

50 million presses for Cherry MX Black
20 million presses for all tactile Cherry MX switches, but the tactile feel will have been diminished significantly long before the switch breaks.

[George7]

Glad you've found a keyboard that suits you. I've thankfully been completely satisfied by Cherry Blue switches Some rubber domes aren't bad at all though. I think my favourite rubber dome board is, weirdly, the OEM Dell board that came with the Dell machines 7ish years ago. For me, the feel is just right; just a shame they're pad printed!

[Bry]

And even with the correct number we have still to understand what they mean.

What's lasting 20 or 50k actuations ? The contact, the whole switch ? What are the parameters taken in account ?

When someone says a "led last 100k hours" he should mean that the LED will still emit the 50% of the initial luminous flux, we have an universally accepted methodology.

What a bout the switches ?

A brown that act like a red is a working switch or not ?

 I cant wait till my browns start acting like reds, FREE SWITCH CHANGE

[DivineWind]

The Topres are rated for 30 million presses although before I would get close to that number I would have already switched out my keyboard.  How long does it take for an avid typist to hit 1 million keystrokes on a single key?  What do you guys think?

[prd]

[STRIKE]It will take 489 days.[/STRIKE]

I might have exaggerated: 207 days.

[The Solutor]

[STRIKE]It will take 489 days.[/STRIKE]

I might have exaggerated: 207 days.

I'd said 500 days (for the most used vowels).


So I assume your first guess is more correct.

[RiGS]

You guys make these claims look scientific.

[prd]

But they are! That's 4830 spacebar presses a day.

[The Solutor]

You guys make these claims look scientific.

Statistics results are imprecise by definition, but are still scientific data if correctly guessed and calculated.

[RiGS]

Yeah I like the words scientific and guessing in the same sentence, especially without the statistical data.

[prd]

I wonder if that Korean oil prolongs the life of MX switches.

[The Solutor]

Yeah I like scientific and guessing in the same sentence.

Sorry but when you can't install a key-logger on sufficient sized sample of all the PC users, you have to start guessing.


Exactly as you have to guess what happened at the moment of the universe born, because the CNN wasn't there.

[RiGS]

I'm okay with guessing, but you have to admit the part when you corrected prd was a little bit funny.

[prd]

Yeah, I think the universe was always there. And this brings me back to the Korean oil...

[The Solutor]

I wonder if that Korean oil prolongs the life of MX switches.

The correct lubricant surely improve the mechanical life, but hardly something can be done for the electrical contact on such kind of switches, operating at very low currents and voltages.

When greater currents and voltages are involved a wide range of solutions can be used to reduce the electrical spark, that is the major source of wearing .

[The Solutor]

I'm okay with guessing, but you have to admit the part when you corrected prd was a little bit funny.

Clearly we "guessed" different pattern usages, and different meaning for "avid typer", you can't ask more than the order of magnitude for this kind of request.

You can consider 200 as correct as 800, start wondering when one says 75 and the other says 10000...

[RiGS]

I agree, but you are still not getting the joke.
It is the way how you corrected prd.
However this statement of yours makes it even funnier.

[The Solutor]

It is the way how you corrected prd.

I guess you missed the moment.

He corrected himself, i quoted in that precise moment, when I posted the message he reverted the correction...

So my quote looked as materialized from the hyperspace...

all in all you are guessing w/o all the data available...:happy:

[RiGS]

Haha.
This thread is getting funnier with every new post. :happy:

[themadreason]

The thought of perfection kills you.

Every switch or keyboard is fine in its own way, and by comparing each keyboard with something perfect in your head, you make your life miserable, since you will never be satisfied.

You always feel you are missing something by comparing. That feeling make you either a hoarder, trying to get every keyboard you can afford, or a bad loser, by choosing the worst that you can get, since in your mind all things are not perfect so get the worst can be very fulfilling.

Damn that is deep man!  

MY WHOLE LIFE IS A LIE!  My keyboards make me empty inside! (*slits writst, hangs self, glad he bought the TG3 BL 82 w/blood spatter guard).

[themadreason]

Seriously though, that blew open my tiny mind.

[Harlequin]

I actually own 2 Qsenn DT-35. Black and white. I love playing SC2 with it. but i always mix membrane and mechanical keyboards.
So sometimes i use mech and sometimes i use membrane but membrane for only SC2 i guess.
Generally mech is good for typing and also gaming imo. However, truly DT-35 is an awesome keyboard for SC2.
It just feels so good!! Even though it's really cheap keyboard.

[shrap]

Damn that is deep man!  

MY WHOLE LIFE IS A LIE!  My keyboards make me empty inside! (*slits writst, hangs self, glad he bought the TG3 BL 82 w/blood spatter guard).

That whole spiel is just a rephrasing of The Paradox of Choice.

[themadreason]

"That whole spiel is just a rephrasing of The Paradox of Choice"

Hmmm.  That looks interesting.  I may need to read this.

[epik]

lol interesting thread. Logged back in for the first time in a while to say that I have settled back on my ol' 1st gen Logitech G15 as well.

I still have a Razer Blackwidow and tried out a couple Filcos. I did like the feel of the mechanicals a bit. Black switch was interesting but in the end I think there was so much hype I read that it was almost as if I was forcing myself to deal with the awkwardness of the mechanical switches and telling myself that it would be better off in the long run. Well, I gave it a few months and it wasn't so.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I didn't actually have any problems with my G15 in the first place. I type just as fast, 200+ wpm and have fewer errors.

So in the end I'd have to say there's a lot to like about mech keyboards but to everyone who tells unaware people they are miles better, let's just keep these realistic yeah? Personal preference in the end, I suppose.

7+ years and still going strong; feels like home.

[Mazora]

lol interesting thread. Logged back in for the first time in a while to say that I have settled back on my ol' 1st gen Logitech G15 as well.

I still have a Razer Blackwidow and tried out a couple Filcos. I did like the feel of the mechanicals a bit. Black switch was interesting but in the end I think there was so much hype I read that it was almost as if I was forcing myself to deal with the awkwardness of the mechanical switches and telling myself that it would be better off in the long run. Well, I gave it a few months and it wasn't so.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I didn't actually have any problems with my G15 in the first place. I type just as fast, 200+ wpm and have fewer errors.

So in the end I'd have to say there's a lot to like about mech keyboards but to everyone who tells unaware people they are miles better, let's just keep these realistic yeah? Personal preference in the end, I suppose.

7+ years and still going strong; feels like home.

Show Image

This keyboard is not as ugly as it looks on this picture. I used the G15 for so long and I kinda got used to the look in the end. But going with mechanicals allowed me to type 15% faster, from like 275 wpm to 316.25+.

Also, the Filco looks so good; even my tattooed friend told me it didnt "look like a toy for once", which is a great compliment coming from him. Although the Logitechs age very very well, you should be expecting some mushiness after 7years of relatively-heavy typing.