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Author Topic: Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time  (Read 12449 times)

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Offline Trueepower

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« on: Wed, 17 August 2011, 20:58:10 »
For those of you who have been waiting for an all 45g Topre Realforce 87 board it's available at EK in white.
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Offline elbowglue

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 17 August 2011, 22:39:07 »
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My keyboards: Filco Cherry Blue Tenkeyless(daily home), Compaq MX11800 (modded to blacks), Compaq "MX 84u",  Wellington\'s Dampened Endurapro, Pinkalicious Filco Blue Cherry, Chicony KB-5191, Chicony KB-5181, Desko MOS 5023 UP "elbowglue" spos (modded to blues), Siig Minitouch (monterey blue), SMK-88 (blue cherries), Ricercar SPOS
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Offline F u r u y á

  • Posts: 427
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 17 August 2011, 23:23:00 »
Holly cow
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Offline didjamatic

  • Posts: 1352
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 17 August 2011, 23:34:20 »
I just bought the variable 87u last week, then you pull this out?  You should have listed them at the same time.
BAD FORM.
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Offline whizz

  • Posts: 28
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 03:33:11 »
Great, thanks for noticing. All-45 silent would be great, but I think that it is not planned at all (right now) so I have to buy weighted silent and mod it... And also convince myself that need 345 USD keyboard lol.
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Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 20:20:51 »
If only it had a PBT spacebar... It would be the perfect keyboard
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 20:54:08 »
Quote from: ironman31;401296
If only it had a PBT spacebar... It would be the perfect keyboard
Jesus you people are picky :)
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Offline sordna

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:20:04 »
Quote from: ironman31;401296
If only it had a PBT spacebar... It would be the perfect keyboard

No keyboard with the silly staggered layout can be perfect. Far from it.
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
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Offline didjamatic

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:29:20 »
Silly? Staggered?  Do you mean your fingers?  They're both staggered and variable.
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Offline mmmty

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:34:39 »
Must go take a look...
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Offline sordna

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 23:04:05 »
Quote from: didjamatic;401341
Silly? Staggered?  Do you mean your fingers?  They're both staggered and variable.

They're variable (that's why the Kinesis Advantage has middle finger column sitting deeper than the rest) but they're not staggered. The zig-zag staggered layout I'm talking about was devised to fit the typewriter pushrods. We don't need it anymore.

This is not natural movement for the hands or fingers, and no matter how fancy you make the switches and charge $300-400 or more, if you don't deal with the fundamental flaw of traditional keyboards, you have a mediocre keyboard. Even if the label on it says Realforce.

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Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline didjamatic

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 23:05:12 »
Oh, gotcha.
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Offline godofdeath

  • Posts: 406
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 23:32:28 »
where are the 104s
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Offline Input Nirvana

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 22 August 2011, 00:54:01 »
Quote from: sordna;401401
Show Image

Sordna, please stop posting this crap, it hurts my eyes! Plus, it's 2011, we know better than to make fingers go backwards, don't we?
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Offline sordna

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 22 August 2011, 00:59:25 »
Haha, sorry, but I'm trying to open people's eyes about the relic called "staggered layout" that haunts 99% of keyboards from 1880 all the way to 2011. I feel so strongly about this, that I'm thinking to even buy a Truly Ergonomic, whenever it comes out (perhaps might be available by Christmas, who knows?)
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 August 2011, 01:01:59 by sordna »
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Trueepower

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 22 August 2011, 01:42:47 »
Quote from: sordna;403004
Haha, sorry, but I'm trying to open people's eyes about the relic called "staggered layout" that haunts 99% of keyboards from 1880 all the way to 2011. I feel so strongly about this, that I'm thinking to even buy a Truly Ergonomic, whenever it comes out (perhaps might be available by Christmas, who knows?)

 
While your at it you might want to take a look at the shoes you are wearing, most likely they are better ones out there for your feet. But, you probably aren't thinking about that are you? Ignoring your feet over your hands is not a good idea either.
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Offline sordna

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 22 August 2011, 02:17:31 »
Adjusting between vertical columns and staggered layout is much easier that you think, try it sometime, you might be surprised!
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 17:47:42 »
FedEx guy still isn't here.... -__-
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


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Offline F u r u y á

  • Posts: 427
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 18:26:14 »
omg already sold out.
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Offline ironman31

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 20:31:54 »
WAIT.... Has no one else noticed the different texture of this new batch of keys? And the fact that the spacebar is now sharp....?

The texture btw is much smoother than the original. The texture of the WASD keys that come with it is of the original batch.

Key texture of the 91UBY is by far superior.

ALSO:

Font is different, much bigger.

I guess I'll be keeping the 91UBY...

PPS

The 'D' and 'X' is not completely dyed through. Looks like the printer was running out of ink. It seems Realforce has gone down on the quality control a bit.
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 August 2011, 20:55:40 by ironman31 »
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
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Offline RiGS

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 20:51:00 »
Quote from: ironman31;404188
WAIT.... Has no one else noticed the different texture of this new batch of keys? And the fact that the spacebar is now sharp....?

The texture btw is much smoother than the original. The texture of the WASD keys that come with it is of the original batch.

Key texture of the 91UBY is by far superior.

ALSO:

Font is different, much bigger.

I guess I'll be keeping the 91UBY...

I did. Those red keys from Verkkokauppa that I sold to litster had much better texture than these.

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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline ironman31

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 21:06:11 »
If I ever decide to open it up, I might put the small space bar from the UBY onto this 87U. Only THEN might it be the perfect keyboard, for that's the only thing getting in the way of keyfeel.
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


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Offline litster

  • Posts: 2890
  • rare caps?! THAT'S A SMILIN
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 21:55:18 »
Close up of the 3 different Topre keycaps I have.  The red one is from RiGS.  Yellow one is from the Korean Leopold group buy.  The black one is from my new 87U from Elitekeyboards 2 weeks ago.



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Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 21:57:53 »
Nice close-ups.
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
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Offline litster

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  • rare caps?! THAT'S A SMILIN
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 21:58:46 »
I still can't tell which one is smoother or rougher from the close up :-),  I guess it has to be by feel...
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Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 23 August 2011, 22:01:27 »
From visual inspection between the 91UBY and the new 87U, the 87U's keys have much more shine. The don't feel bad, but feel how I would expect the others' keys to feel after a couple of years of use.

Another thing to note is that the F and J keys are not shiny like the rest. Like they purposely gave them more texture...
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution

Offline Jago

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 24 August 2011, 01:44:19 »
Quote from: RiGS;404195
I did. Those red keys from Verkkokauppa that I sold to litster had much better texture than these.

Show Image
Heh, I actually like the looks of these over the verkkokauppa ones, by far. Where/who sells the ones in this image? Are these "big" WASD keys or are they of same profile as the stock ones?
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Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 24 August 2011, 07:19:44 »
the profiles are all the same, the thickness of the font is whats different
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
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Offline RiGS

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 24 August 2011, 07:53:20 »
Quote from: Jago;404274
Heh, I actually like the looks of these over the verkkokauppa ones, by far. Where/who sells the ones in this image? Are these "big" WASD keys or are they of same profile as the stock ones?

These are the red keycaps from Verkkokauppa.
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline Jago

  • Posts: 43
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 24 August 2011, 11:59:16 »
Quote from: RiGS;404335
These are the red keycaps from Verkkokauppa.

Oh seriously? Are their own images way way overbright then, cause this is what they look like on Verkkokauppa's website:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 24986[/ATTACH]
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Offline guilleguillaume

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 24 August 2011, 12:24:46 »
Quote from: Jago;404402
Oh seriously? Are their own images way way overbright then, cause this is what they look like on Verkkokauppa's website:

(Attachment Link) 24986[/ATTACH]

The pics are Photoshopped in Verkkokkaupa.
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Offline ironman31

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 24 August 2011, 22:10:52 »
one day I'll sand down the front edge of the spacebar to make this my perfect keyboard. Or I'll end up ruining a 360 dollar investment...
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution

Offline keyboardlover

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 24 August 2011, 22:16:58 »
I wonder if these will ever get back in stock? Or if they will carry black ones?

Or if EK will ever tell us what is going on ever?
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Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 24 August 2011, 22:19:11 »
yes, maybe, and no
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution

Offline chongyixiong

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 11:58:16 »
And I saved up just thinking I would slowly take my time to click on the Buy button and submit my details on a nice, Saturday afternoon with my favourite cuppa.

But no, EK decided that they should only sell 1 and call it the limited edition. Damn it and now I'm never going to get the all 45g! I DEMAND A RESTOCK!
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Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 12:05:22 »
Quote from: chongyixiong;405508
And I saved up just thinking I would slowly take my time to click on the Buy button and submit my details on a nice, Saturday afternoon with my favourite cuppa.

But no, EK decided that they should only sell 1 and call it the limited edition. Damn it and now I'm never going to get the all 45g! I DEMAND A RESTOCK!

It doesn't say LIMITED, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution

Offline keyboardlover

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 18:34:20 »
Did it say limited when they were in stock though?
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Offline RiGS

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 18:45:05 »
Nope.
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline chongyixiong

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 22:07:01 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;405678
Did it say limited when they were in stock though?

Quote from: RiGS;405685
Nope.

What I saw. Click
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Offline Daniel Beaver

  • Posts: 504
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 22:22:25 »
Daaaamn, out of stock already? Glad I grabbed one on day one. I'm digging it so far.
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Offline ironman31

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 22:34:39 »
Quote from: chongyixiong;405774
What I saw. Click
I think they call all 87U 'boards Limited Edition. EK still might be able to get more from the Leopold stock though.
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution

Offline keyboardlover

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 08:40:28 »
If you've tried both a variable-force Realforce AND an all-45g, please vote in my poll here.
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Offline sordna

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 11:42:28 »
Could those of you who have tried the variable force and like it for typing explain why keys like the Shift, Control, Backspace and backslash are not at 35g like the pinky-finger columns of the keyboard?

When I had a 35g keyboard, I really appreciated these hard to reach keys being so soft, why does the realforce reduce the force on the Q column, but increases it again on the tab/shift/control column?

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Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline keyboardlover

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 11:44:36 »
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Offline litster

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« Reply #44 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 11:53:38 »
Quote from: sordna;406003
Could those of you who have tried the variable force and like it for typing explain why keys like the Shift, Control, Backspace and backslash are not at 35g like the pinky-finger columns of the keyboard?

Just my opinion...  when touch-typing, you hands stay at the same position, so when you type on the 35g columns, you mostly just use your pinkies' strength.  When you need to press Tab, Shifts, Controls, etc, you hands move out of your touch-type position and you would apply more strength to press these keys than just your pinkies' strength.  Making those keys at 35g would be too light.
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Offline ironman31

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 12:07:35 »
Quote from: litster;406008
Just my opinion...  when touch-typing, you hands stay at the same position, so when you type on the 35g columns, you mostly just use your pinkies' strength.  When you need to press Tab, Shifts, Controls, etc, you hands move out of your touch-type position and you would apply more strength to press these keys than just your pinkies' strength.  Making those keys at 35g would be too light.

Ill second this opinion
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


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Offline sordna

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 12:26:21 »
Hmm, thank you all for your thoughts. I'm ok with Tab, Enter, Ctrl, etc at 45g, but I still think at least the Shift keys should be at 35g since they are integral to typing, and in my experience with red and brown cherries I find 45g Shifts tiring enough to the pinkies that I often use a foot switch to shift.
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline hella

  • Posts: 96
Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 30 August 2011, 01:25:02 »
Quote from: sordna;401401
They're variable (that's why the Kinesis Advantage has middle finger column sitting deeper than the rest) but they're not staggered. The zig-zag staggered layout I'm talking about was devised to fit the typewriter pushrods. We don't need it anymore.

This is not natural movement for the hands or fingers, and no matter how fancy you make the switches and charge $300-400 or more, if you don't deal with the fundamental flaw of traditional keyboards, you have a mediocre keyboard. Even if the label on it says Realforce.

Show Image


I know the internet, and GeekHack especially are havens for argumentative people.  Usually I keep my thoughts to myself but I've done a lot of research on desk and keyboard ergonomics during my undergraduate studies.

As a RN with a Bachelor's of Science in Kinesiology I have to say I can't agree with this.  The staggered keyboard favors the medial angles of your index fingers.  A straight keyboard would actually cause the shoulders to anatomically protract.

The biggest ergonomic factor is how far apart your hands are and the angle your keyboard is split at.  If your keyboard is angled (studies show 5-12 degrees yields less hand fatigue) your ring finger and pinky finger will be aligned in a position that yields less force and stress on your digital muscles.  I'll find some articles if you guys are really interested.

Edit: Also the trulyergonomic picture is seriously flawed.  Anyone can test this by placing their hands on a regular keyboard and can see that they don't position their hands as shown in the picture.  While the trulyergonomic keyboard favors proper body positioning more than regular keyboards their product is no more advantageous (layout wise) than using a Microsoft keyboard.

Switch-wise, the trulyergonomic keyboard would have an advantage over average ergonomic keyboards if it were to have tactile switches.  PM me if you want an explanation on this.. it's kinda lengthy.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 August 2011, 01:30:47 by hella »
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Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #48 on: Tue, 30 August 2011, 04:02:27 »
Either staggering whichever direction is equally good/bad (unlikely) or there is one way that is better than the other (more likely). The body is symmetric - keyboards should be symmetric. After that observation there are of course numerous design choices left.
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Offline hella

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Topre Realforce all 45g ANSI (White) available for the first time
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 30 August 2011, 04:13:36 »
That's a huge oversimplification of what should occur.  By angling your keyboard 12 degrees you are turning a staggered keyboard into straight alignment.  

Combined with the angle of your forearm your wrist will always be straight.    I angle my forearms about 20 degrees apart (or 70 degrees in relation to my torso) with a split keyboard.  With a straight keyboard my forearms angle about 45 degrees from my chest.

By having straight keys, and no angling you're distally rotating your wrist in an unnatural position.
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