Newbie

[insilica]

Hi,

Yep, it's that stupid question again... I have been here for a couple of days hunting for a mechanical keyboard. Its quite difficult deciding what keyboard is suitable. The term "Suitable" is so subjective because as quite rightly discussed a user has many preferences and some users weigh the importance of particular preferences differently and therefore the ultimate keyboard is likely to be a combination of keyboards. I think I have managed to whittle it down to two main contender however some discussions on the forums have given me some doubt. To put my decisions in perspective I'm going to say a little about myself.

I live in the UK, have been a programmer for a long time and I've been in the realm of Linux for approximately 15 years (avid user of gentoo). My main development environment is vim and I code in a variety of languages. My desktop at present is a tiling window manager (these desktops typically require heavy use of keyboard for navigation). I used to play games but rarely do so now (looking forward to Diablo III so that may change :-)). Apart from browsing or using the virtual machine (very rarely) I rarely use the mouse. I like qwerty it suites me better the dvorak and I average a fairly average 80-90 wpm.

For the past 8 years I've been using the Microsoft USB Natural Ergonomic Keyboard (the one with blue multimedia switches). I bought this second hand from a computer market for £10 which is roughly $16 I guess.

OK. so onto options ....

I don't need to save space but I don't actually use the numpad so the tenkeyless option makes sense to me (though I may be wrong). I'm not particularly fussed about the locale of the keyboard, i.e. my laptop is US, my ergo keyboard is UK. I am very fussed when it comes to keyboard layout, i.e. HHKB would be out of the question for me. I mean I used to own the MS elite (ergo with no multimedia keys) but the arrow keys drove me crazy! I don't mind hearing the keyboard but I don't want it to be loud (rules out cherry blues) and some feedback would be nice to acknowledge key register (rules out black).

Being in the UK I'm not exactly spoilt for choice. I've found keyboardco and they stock both Filco and RealForce (both very popular on the forum). And I think the actuation sweet spot for me may be 45g though I could be wrong.

From what I've read it seems that cherry brown would be ideal for me and the Filco Majestouch-2 tactile (Tenkeyless) might just be the keyboard for me.

hxxp://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=804

However this "Ping" business is holding me back though can anyone confirm the ping on the Majestouch-2 (brown cherry)? I think it was demoed here for filco Majestouch brown (Tactile?)? if that's the ping then there is no way I can tolerate that!

hxxp://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12131

which would leave me with the RealForce Topre 88 tenkeyless
hxxp://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=863

But the discussions:

hxxp://geekhack.org/showthread.php?9709-Realforce-87U-I-don-t-get-it&highlight=realforce+review

hxxp://geekhack.org/showthread.php?6196-realforce-87u-came-in

Leaves little to be desired.


Apologies for the long essay I just didn't quite realise how important a keyboard was until I stumbled on this forum.

Have I got my bearings? Will I regret going tenkeyless? and cherry red? Is the price of a realforce justifiable (I suspect not - but ping . ping . pingping ) ahhhh going crazy just thinking about it tbh.

I would really welcome and appreciate your insight.

[reaper]

However this "Ping" business is holding me back though can anyone confirm the ping on the Majestouch-2 (brown cherry)? I think it was demoed here for filco Majestouch brown (Tactile?)? if that's the ping then there is no way I can tolerate that!

Welcome to Geekhack and I have a Filco Ninja Browns (Majestouch-2) and none of the keys "ping".  IMO, only a small percentage experiences that issue.

As for the Realforce, it's subjective.  Personally I like all 55g uniform weight and a heavier board is a plus.

Good call on KeyboardCo though.  Bruce and his team are excellent to deal with. =)

[keyboardlover]

Please see Ping link in my sig for more info.

[forTruce]

I didn't put much weight into the ping claims when I purchased my keyboard.  My filco mj2 tkl will be here on Monday.  If you are still on the fence by then I would be more than happy to give you my opinion when it rolls in.

[redpill]

Pinging/ringing Filcos do exist and are very annoying.  But they are rare, and if you got a really bad one, keyboardco would probably exchange or refund.  

Based on your post though, I think you would prefer the Realforce.  They are excellent to type on and quieter than a Keyboard with plate mounted cherry switches.

[Lolcakes]

Hi!

I got my Filco Majestouch 2 Cherry MX Blue Tenkeyless from keyboardco. The seem nice, delivered the board on the next day and responded to my emails.
On my keyboard all keys ping. Every single one of them. But it doesnt bother me and I am happy with the purchase. I cant really hear the ping unless i specifically listen for it since the kb is fairly loud (Which i like)
I dont really think its such a big deal. This is my first "expensive" keyboard and I must say it feels so nice touching it. I find myself pressing buttons even when I have no reason to (for example while watching video)

On the tenkeyless question - I had doubts myself but now I cant stand full size keyboards anymore. Simply being able to have my mouse where the numpad would normally be feels very very very comfortable to me. I used to use the numpad a little but I dont really miss it. I do a lot of programming every day and I have to obviously use numbers but the key row is just perfect (:

I hope that was somewhat useful

[Soarer]

I cant really hear the ping unless i specifically listen for it since the kb is fairly loud (Which i like)
I dont really think its such a big deal.

From your description, it sounds like you got a perfectly normal keyboard - most are!

And that's the problem, most people who say 'it's not a big deal' have a perfectly normal keyboard, so how would they know?

The really bad ringing ones seem to be at the least pretty rare. I don't even know for sure if they exist, but I'm sure as hell not going to stick my daft neck out and say that they definitely don't exist! But I will say that if they do exist, they are defective (not as intended, for sure).

:-)

[ironman31]

Don't pay attention to any of this ping nonsense.

[redpill]

Don't pay attention to any of this ping nonsense.

Easy to say when you haven't gotten stuck with one.

[forTruce]

Oh god...another ping war.  Can't we all just get along!

[Minskleip]

Blue cherries are not loud. My **** is loud; a keyboard is not.

If you don't believe me, get a few keyboards with different switches - if people complains then you know you work at the wrong place (with ***s) and this should be a good incentive to get a new job. Good input devices are more important than making retards happy; you don't want rsi, do you?

[Saturn]

consider the leopold, too

[ironman31]

Easy to say when you haven't gotten stuck with one.

Who's to say I haven't?

[Clickey]

I think any keyboard with a metal switchplate will ping to some degree (metal switchplate means higher quality than PCB mounted or plastic plate IMO). I can see it being a problem if you are looking for silence, but if that is the case, a rubber dome would probably be the best option. If you try a model M to see if you like the clicky type keyboards, you might realise you do, then the ping would be inaudible behind the click. Once you go clickclack, you never go back.

[keyboardlover]

Plate-mounted definitely doesn't create the ping/ringing issue. My two current Filcos don't ping (one is Gen1, other is Gen2).

It's a sporadic issue.

[redpill]

I think any keyboard with a metal switchplate will ping to some degree

Fortunately you are not correct.  The vast majority of keyboards (80%) with plate-mounted Cherry-MX switches make little or no audible ping sound during normal use.  http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19743-Does-Your-Modern-Plate-Mount-Cherry-MX-Board-Ping-Ring-*Read-Instructions-First*

[keyboardlover]

Right...because ping != ringing.

[redpill]

It only matters if you can hear it during normal use.  The ripster ping trolling is meaningless.  And potentially may have consequences come tomorrow.

[insilica]

LoL,

OK many thanks to all who replied!

pinging aside I'm going to sleep on it!

[from KeyboardCo]

It's:

Filco Majestouch-2, Tenkeyless (browns) +  Filco Blue WASD + Filco, Red ESC Keycap + Filco Black Key Puller : Total: £119.51 or ~$189 USD

OR

Realforce 88 uniform 45g, Tenkeyless (Topre) : Total: £192.00 or ~304 USD

A whooping difference of  £73 (~$115 USD) [money may be spent elsewhere :laugh: ]. Given the lack of reviews on the Relforce 88 and the price difference currently favouring the Filco :-).

[HeavyArms]

I'm an owner of the Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless with brown MX switches and the Filco ninja keys. I am very happy with it. There isn't a single thing I would change. No ping issue for me, unless I put my ear to the keyboard and flick the key with my fingernail. I would highly recommend this keyboard to anyone.

[Clickey]

Right...because ping != ringing.

 

I can hear ping on all my keyboards with springs if I listen close enough.

Observe...

I thought ping does = ringing sound? I can hear it on almost every mechanical board I have ever used/tested, especially cherry blue boards because of that loose piece of plastic. The spring vibrates against the plate when the key is released, sometimes happens on PCB boards too, I think I am misunderstanding this "ping" issue, or just listening too closely.

[HeavyArms]

I don't know anybody that types by flicking their keys with their fingernail.

Despite all the YouTube videos on Geekhack demonstrating this unusual typing technique.

Was being facetious.

[Soarer]

I think I am misunderstanding this "ping" issue

That's understandable, with this kind of self-contradictory bull**** spammed all over the place...
 

Ping does equal Ring.  I've yet to hear this mythical 4 second rrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg sound posted on the intertoobs.  1 second ping.  Maybe piing.

So you've heard ping. All keyboards ping. And you say ping equals ring. But you haven't heard ring.

ROFL.

You'll say anything if you think it'll get up someone's nose, you tart!

[redpill]

The entire "McGurk effect" BS was never anything more than a Ripster troll job. It doesn't even properly reference it.  The McGurk effect is a perceptual phenomenon which demonstrates an interaction between hearing and vision in speech perception. It suggests that speech perception is multimodal, that is, that it involves information from more than one sensory modality..  It has nothing to do with keyboard ping and CANNOT have anything to do with keyboard ping because the noise your keyboard makes does not trigger a multimodal intersection of the vision and speech portions of the brain.

The McGurk effect is your brain thinking it hears a sound based upon a visual cue that indicates that sound should occur. IE you think you hear a "b" when someone forms the letter "b" with their lips. So it's completely inapplicable to the situation at hand, there is no visual indication that a keyboard should ring, and whether it rings or not, the speech portion of your brain is not being accessed.

The McGurk effect impacts all humans, it's the way our brains work. So when only some people get ringing keyboards, and some sort of pinging sound but others do not, it is more proof that it CANNOT BE the McGurk effect.

In conclusion, ripsters continued reference to this phenomenon shows not only deliberate ignorance, but at this point is nothing short of harassment and disinformation.

[redpill]

The troll poll should never have been deleted.

[redpill]

Link where I said it was an epidemic or shut your troll mouth.

[redpill]

Your logic couldn't be more backwards.  The poll shows precisely why it is a defect.  The poll proves that many manufacturers make keyboards with plate-mounted Cherry MX switches that don't ping at all.  80% of them have little or no audible ping whatsoever.  So for the keyboards that do have loud ringing across the entire board, it clearly is a defect in either the product design or the assembly of that particular board.  Irrefutable.

You're 0 for 2 now.  One more swing and you strike out in this thread.

[redpill]

.
.
A defect does not mean every single example has the same problem, especially if it is a defect in the assembly process.

That's three strikes, back to the bench.

I've said over and over that it only impacts a small percentage of them, so I wouldn't expect to see a lot of people with the problem.  But that doesn't mean it isn't an issue for the small number of folks who get bad boards.  And for some reason, every time the subject comes up, you start lying about it and make the thread go on forever.  You don't have one of the problem boards, good for you, just shut up about it then.  It's not the McGurk effect, not all boards do it, it's not in someone's head, it's not just whining.  You're not just "exaggerating," you're lying.  So cut it out.

[redpill]

I don't know whether it's a problem in design or assembly, either way it's a defect.  We aren't talking about occasional pings.  In typical fashion, when you don't have an answer you go tangential.  Stop being such a child.

[redpill]

Without your trolling, harassment and lying it would never have been a big issue to begin with.  Congrats on making a monster.

[redpill]

You're just jelly that you don't have the balls to use insulation foam on a keyboard.  The Number One Keyboard Castrato on the Planet.

[redpill]

Foaming at the mouth?  I just left to go to the bar for a few hours to watch my Chargers pull out a win and I come back to find you still refreshing and responding to every single post within five minutes.  Dude, GET OUT OF THE HOUSE!

[monked]

this thread should have been closed long time ago ^^

[redpill]

I feel a tad sorry for the OP

No, you don't.

[thebilgerat]

To the OP:

Ignore redpill, he's upset that ripster haz skillz.

Whichever mechanical you get, you will love.  I have a Leopold tenkeyless and do not notice the ping at all.  Keyboards make noise.  Even rubber domes.  The thing I love about the cherry switches are the precision and lovely tactile feedback, even with the "mushy" and "cheap" feeling cherry stabilizers.  IMHO, I'd start with the filco, but then again typing on a realforce is supposedly awesome.

Either way, enjoy!

[peda]

To the OP:

Ignore redpill, he's upset that ripster haz skillz.

And what skills would that be? :-P

Anyway, OP: as thebilgerat already said, mechanical keyboards make noise and the whole discussion is (as you can see) a little heated. Buy whatever you think to prefer. It will be a good choice either way.





Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

[thebilgerat]

And what skills would that be? :-P

You must be new 'round these here parts...

[Soarer]

I have a Leopold tenkeyless and do not notice the ping at all.  Keyboards make noise.  Even rubber domes.  

I had a Filco tenkeyless with blue cherries and did not notice the noise at all. It doesn't follow that there's no such thing as an annoyingly noisy keyboard.

From your description, it sounds like you got a perfectly normal keyboard - most are!

And that's the problem, most people who say 'it's not a big deal' have a perfectly normal keyboard, so how would they know?

The really bad ringing ones seem to be at the least pretty rare. I don't even know for sure if they exist, but I'm sure as hell not going to stick my daft neck out and say that they definitely don't exist! But I will say that if they do exist, they are defective (not as intended, for sure).

:-)

[redpill]

Ignore redpill, he's upset that ripster haz skillz.

Nonsense, I got along fine with ripster until he started trolling and harassing me on this issue.

[pitashen]

I may be a bit too late but,
OP, since you are a noob, I would like you to narrow down to just a few focuses to make ur purchase decision.

1. The type of switch you would prefer (brown is a very safe choice for mech board noob).
2. Brands that offers quality build (a.k.a. Filco, Leopold, Cherry, DAS, and Realforce to name a few).
3. The appearance of the keyboard and layout (i.e. color, surface finish, and round vs. square edge, tenkeyless, etc etc).

The rests are minor and purely subjective and will only add confusions to your decision making. You would always find love and hate down to  the tinniest aspects of the mech board. And so there is always a certain amount of risks involved in getting mech board due to its higher price point and the wide variety of typing feel and noise level. Focus the above 3 points and dive in and you'll likely enjoy the purchase.

I got my first mech keyboard without reading anything on geekhack except this one review on the keyboard I decided to buy, and the review of the board wasn't even positive. Yet I am very satisfied with my decision.

[insilica]

OK so this sort of got out hand. Thanks for all the advice

Just to satisfy any curiosity as to the choice: I've decided on the Filco Majestouch-2 Brown from KeyboardCo but since Bruce has indicated the UK Ninja versions are on there way going to be patient for a little while, otherwise will pick up a set of blanks if it lingers for too long.

[ashort]

OK so this sort of got out hand. Thanks for all the advice

Just to satisfy any curiosity as to the choice: I've decided on the Filco Majestouch-2 Brown from KeyboardCo but since Bruce has indicated the UK Ninja versions are on there way going to be patient for a little while, otherwise will pick up a set of blanks if it lingers for too long.

That's what I bought, and I love it.