Corsair gets into keyboards (MX Red)

[monked]

Because I need the ISO layout, and preferably separate arrow key and Ins/Del clusters.

same layout problem for me and most europeans
thats why we can only choose between the mainstreams that... suck?

[emil.wester]

Does any know if the K60 can be used on a Mac? I.E. is the WIN keys remappable? Or are they "hardcoded" as Win, like the steelseries button on 6gv2.

[BababooeyHTJ]

They should have used rubber domes on the WASD keys too. Even with the tacky keycaps you can never be too sure that your fingers are on the right keys.

[dorkvader]

They should have put the mechanical keyswitch only on the 'insert', 'scroll lock' and 'pause' keys, that way you'll know if you hit one by mistake.

(and still called it a mechanical keyboard.)

[highspeed]

same layout problem for me and most europeans
thats why we can only choose between the mainstreams that... suck?

Have you people actually tried us layout. Im swede and used us layout for 1.5 year, took literally zero minutes to learn it, its exactly the same with swe layout in windows activated. Only <>| key has other position.

[monked]

i thought about it but it think it would take a while to get used to the different positions of the "(){[]}", "<>", well we need "üöä" and i don't want to remap everything to some sort of "where it fits position" ^^ (at least i got used to qwerty in counterstrike)
where did you put all those special chars at?

i would totally get a noppoo with reds if i would use ansii or a WASD

[elef]

Have you people actually tried us layout. Im swede and used us layout for 1.5 year, took literally zero minutes to learn it, its exactly the same with swe layout in windows activated. Only <>| key has other position.

That's not even close to being true for many/most European languages. If you had a quick look at the layouts before posting, you'd know.
Believe me, I would consider using the cheap and easily available ANSI keyboards if I could, but I can't. I'm bored with these inane suggestions to "just use the ANSI layout", so I'll be brief.
There are two keys in the Hungarian ISO layout that wouldn't be there in ANSI. Even if I remapped the keyboard with autohotkey to a custom layout, it would not be physically possible to touch type Hungarian without some extraordinary contortions.
(One key near the lshift would be eliminated, one would be move so far over - to the |/ key - that it would not be feasible to touch type it.)
One could conceivably sacrifice the lshift to get back the lost key, but even then, can you touch type the |/ key? I sure can't.
I don't know the Swedish alphabet, maybe you don't have as many letters as we do. In that case, the transition would be a lot easier.

[highspeed]

Might be true for you, no idea how a hungarian keyboard look like

touch type, you mean touching without modifier? Yes i have to use alt-gr modifier for <>|. But since i binded those close to alt-gr it goes very fast and i only need right hand for it, so no problem. And beside with real swede layout keyboard u still need to use modifer on for <>, only | can be typed without it, so really no big different.

Except for that everything else is exactly what it would be on a normal swe keyboard. Ofcourse the labels are not, but who cares

[elef]

Might be true for you, no idea how a hungarian keyboard look like

 

...which is why it's ignorant to presuppose that it coincides with the US layout like the Swedish does.

touch type, you mean touching without modifier? Yes i have to use alt-gr modifier for <>|. But since i binded those close to alt-gr it goes very fast and i only need right hand for it, so no problem. And beside with real swede layout keyboard u still need to use modifer on for <>, only | can be typed without it, so really no big different.

No, I don't mean that, obviously. What I mean is if you can touch type the key that is the |/ key (more precisely, |\) key in the US layout. The wide one above the enter key. The one that's hopelessly far from your right pinky.
The point is, in order to use an ANSI keyboard with most European languages, you would need to assign a letter to this key, which would be impractical to say the least. This is what my entire previous post was about: for all practical purposes, ANSI keyboards have two less keys than ISO that are available for assigning letters.
Why do I even try... :sigh:

[highspeed]

...which is why it's ignorant to presuppose that it coincides with the US layout like the Swedish does.


No, I don't mean that, obviously. What I mean is if you can touch type the key that is the |/ key (more precisely, |\) key in the US layout. The wide one above the enter key. The one that's hopelessly far from your right pinky.
The point is, in order to use an ANSI keyboard with most European languages, you would need to assign a letter to this key, which would be impractical to say the least. This is what my entire previous post was about: for all practical purposes, ANSI keyboards have two less keys than ISO that are available for assigning letters.
Why do I even try... :sigh:

 
Ignorant, should ive checked every eu layout before coming with a statement like that? You pretty annoying person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing

"Touch typing is typing without using the sense of sight to find the keys."

Still dont understnad your problem really. i cant touch type all day long with my new binding, you having hard time to learn where a new button is or what?

[BababooeyHTJ]

You only really need the WASD keys to be mechanical.  Well that and maybe the spacebar.

[Ink`Eyes]

I would need everything from 6,y,h, spacebar and everything to the left of it.  That's my right hand bias speaking.

[Saberfang]

I don't think a hybrid keyboard is something someone would want to buy expecially at a high price. I'm looking for my first mechanical and the first thing you learn about them is that once you tried one you just don't want to go back to rubber domes. If that is true than why you want to mix the feeling of switches and rubber domes on the same keyboard? You don't want that unless you are looking for something that have only few keys mechanical, like wasd, but for a really low price.

Saying that the k60 and k90 are gaming keyboards is not a good excuse to say that the rubber keys are not that used to be worth be mechanical plus the macro keys are there expecially for gaming.

[noodles256]

You only really need the WASD keys to be mechanical.  Well that and maybe the spacebar.

you retarded?

[elef]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing

"Touch typing is typing without using the sense of sight to find the keys."

Still dont understnad your problem really. i cant touch type all day long with my new binding, you having hard time to learn where a new button is or what?

Good, you managed to find out what touch typing is. Now, do you know where the |\ key is? Can you reach it with your pinky without leaving the home row? Do you read the posts you're replying to? So many questions, so few answers.

[alaricljs]

without leaving the home row

This is only the most commonly taught style of touch typing.  I don't typically rest my fingers on any keys when actively typing, that doesn't mean I don't touch type however.  Just not the typical style.

[dorkvader]

What's funny about this debate is Apple used to mix switches ALL the time.
(Attachment Link) 27558[/ATTACH]

I will be clarifying all this in another masterpiece of a wiki soon.

Just got my Apple ACMT certification: This( the crazy differences) is one reason I dislike apple.

[Phaedrus2129]

Good, you managed to find out what touch typing is. Now, do you know where the |\ key is? Can you reach it with your pinky without leaving the home row? Do you read the posts you're replying to? So many questions, so few answers.

I can.

\\\\|||||

It's really not that difficult to memorize the entire 104/5-key layout. Let alone the main alphanumeric section.

[woody]

What's funny about this debate is Apple used to mix switches ALL the time.
(Attachment Link) 27558[/ATTACH]

I will be clarifying all this in another masterpiece of a wiki soon.

Jeez, what a mess. White SMKs and something else, rubber sleeve and something else.
Luckily mine are at least uniformly populated.

Do you know which models are depicted in the picture? No signature doubleshots of A9M0330, not M0116 either. One of them could be m0487, but the middle one puzzles me.

[elef]

I can.

\\\\|||||

It's really not that difficult to memorize the entire 104/5-key layout. Let alone the main alphanumeric section.

As I've posted about 6 times in this thread, it's not about learning the key location. That key is so inconveniently placed that it's not practical to use it as a letter key. I don't think I can explain that any better. Try and remap the o letter to |\ with autohotkey and type like that for an hour or two. Disable the original o letter, of course. You probably won't like it very much, I'd expect.

[highspeed]

Good, you managed to find out what touch typing is. Now, do you know where the |\ key is? Can you reach it with your pinky without leaving the home row? Do you read the posts you're replying to? So many questions, so few answers.

No i cant reach with my picky since i have new bind for it. Still dont see your problem. I checked hungarian layout, its more annoying to switch since you have I character there. But still totally doable(move bottom row one step to the right then rebind -_ key to a comfortable position and your done), hungarian layout have exactly same amount of keys as swedish does.

If your a typist that gonna use it for work, ye i can see the probem that you dont want to switch since you want max speed without error. But for general use, no problem.

[noodles256]

As I've posted about 6 times in this thread, it's not about learning the key location. That key is so inconveniently placed that it's not practical to use it as a letter key. I don't think I can explain that any better. Try and remap the o letter to |\ with autohotkey and type like that for an hour or two. Disable the original o letter, of course. You probably won't like it very much, I'd expect.

thats so stupid. you must have downs

[dreamingftw]

They posted them on Amazon already but shows OOS. http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-Performance-Mechanical-CH-9000004-NA/dp/B005QUQP80/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1317500795&sr=8-7
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-Performance-Mechanical-CH-9000003-NA/dp/B005QUQP94/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1317500795&sr=8-8

I thought the prices were going to be cheaper than the ones they listed on Amazon though. Seems like they increased the price.

[BababooeyHTJ]

you retarded?

thats so stupid. you must have downs

How the hell do you get away with that ****? Just looking at your post history and its full of troll comments. The community would lose nothing if you got banned.

[elef]

^Based on this small sample, I tend to agree with that assessment.

[Saberfang]

...

I thought the prices were going to be cheaper than the ones they listed on Amazon though. Seems like they increased the price.

 
Similar price here in Italy with 109€ including vat that are around 145$ for a K90. Seems like the price really had a little rise but at least the price conversion between US and Europe was fair and not 1:1 like Razer do for example. But that still make me think more about the whole hybrid board stuff, with a little price raise they would still be in the same range of other manufacturer with a full mechanical and backlit keyboard that use red cherry mx.

[monked]

cant find it on german amazon but the italian 109€ are legit .. no 1$ -> 1€ ripoff calculation... hope we get the same price here ^^

[GigaFlop]

As I'm about to preorder this, I think it should be noted that the K90 is $140 through Amazon.com, as of now.

edit: K60 is also $120. D:

[Lanx]

As I'm about to preorder this, I think it should be noted that the K90 is $140 through Amazon.com, as of now.

edit: K60 is also $120. D:

is this a $20 increase than what was thought?

[Tarkoon]

Does anybody know something about the planned release date?
(especially in germany with DE-ISO-Layout, but also for other regions)

[slueth]

I heard it was oct 1oth iono

[Phaedrus2129]

I heard "in one month", one week ago.




Keep in mind, they aren't just saving the cost of the switches, but they can also make the PCB smaller, which means more circuit boards per blank, which also reduces manufacturing cost. And I guarantee you that the control PCB will fit snugly inside the gap in the PCB left by the removed editing block.




The savings are still marginal though.

[Lanx]

lol corsair reps will still defend the board to the bone, as per their job requirement of course.

[zere]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 28815[/ATTACH]

It's getting ridiculous in Corsair's blog: http://www.corsair.com/blog/vengeance-gaming-keyboard-keyswitch-technology
According to them, rubberdomes are better suited for gaming than Cherry's switches. Mechanical switches are "undesirable" on many keys because they can not be "triggered reliably in a single press".
Apparantly, we all are stupid.

[iamgk]

Mechanical switches are "undesirable" on many keys because they can not be "triggered reliably in a single press".

wut

[RColinTaylor]

No, I see where Corsair is going with the 'Single Press' concept. Using shorter travel rubber domes makes a lot more sense than simply changing the mechanical switches by adding in an o-ring and giving the buyer the option of how their switches will operate. Also, its nice to have the homey, library feel, on macro keys to remind you of what the concept of mechanical keyboards was supposed to replace.

...idiots.

[Lanx]

"One such innovation was the opportunity to use Cherry MX Red mechanical keyswitches for the main keyboard, and additionally use silicone dome switches in some key positions where we found their performance characteristics to be better suited than those of a mechanical key."
innovation? they really trying to spin cost saving as innovation?

"my team and I all preferred the feel and action of Cherry MX Red switches over any other type of keyswitch."
honestly... you can't get the same GH who posts right after you to agree with you, how are you gonna have an entire development team choose Reds over others... i'm not saying Reds aren't good, i'm saying there's no numerical way 2 or 3 or 10 ppl on the same team can all agree on liking one particular switch over another... unless by any other type of keyswitch, they just pit Cherry Reds vs. scissor switch vs. rubber dome... then yea ok, but not between blues/reds/browns/blacks (and now even whites since they seem to be making a presence)

"However, we also found that multiple taps, while critical on the "action" keys, are undesirable on other keys — especially the macro keys. "
so this BS to me is that the dev team that all wanted Cherry Reds, were heavy handed and were always accidentally pressing and activating Reds (as many have posted on here have done).

"A lot of the team members that worked on the Vengeance K60 and K90 have been building keyboards for many years. Most of us are PC gamers, too"

so they game so much, that they always hover around the macro key's? so much so that they accidentally press em? Where did corsair find these keyboard building guys?

see, i think for most ppl like myself, it wouldn't be so bad if a lot of us didn't buy corsair gear, cuz well their gear is good (personal prefs aside... it ain't crap), and at least on [H] where there is a corsair rep redbeard i think, he's great with the corsair products, but he's obviously noobish in keyboards, but will still defend whatever Memo, they feed him (which we really can't fault him, i mean a job is a job).

it actually looks nice too...
Who knows from the way they're describing the rubber domes, it's like they even beat out Topre on that market now.

[rootwyrm]

I more than have my eyes on the K90, and I'll give you the breakdown from the Real World Experience files.
People like me with neurological issues relating to tactile feedback, are in an odd place. We are the ones who bottom out MX Blacks because that's the only way we can tell. We like Model M's because they're audible and force is pronounced. When we try to use MX Blacks without bottoming out, we get double and even triple strokes because we don't realize we're double-striking. We're sitting close enough that boink-boink of movement ends up with double keystrokes.
Here's the thing. Rubber domes are easier to tune for a feel than mechanical. And for most users, they don't regularly smack 'long reach' keys. So it does make sense for say, function keys, except for folks like me. (This would be a poor programmers keyboard overall.) The rubber dome areas also are specific to areas where there's a high likelihood of incidental double-striking, which I can tell you, rubber dome of any flavor tends to short circuit pretty well in general.

Obviously full judgment reserved until having had my hands on one (it shall be with some luck!) so we'll see. I do have higher hopes for it than the Thermaltake Meka G1. The Meka G1 wasn't a bad keyboard necessarily, they just really missed the price point and the feature set at that price point they had.

[arplod]

(Attachment Link) 28815[/ATTACH]

It's getting ridiculous in Corsair's blog: http://www.corsair.com/blog/vengeance-gaming-keyboard-keyswitch-technology
According to them, rubberdomes are better suited for gaming than Cherry's switches. Mechanical switches are "undesirable" on many keys because they can not be "triggered reliably in a single press".
Apparantly, we all are stupid.

Not all, just most. And maybe not even stupid but temporarily blinded by this hobby you've got into.

I'm looking forward to this one - it might finally be the keyboard I'm looking for. I'll even give that weird rest a shot.

[Retox]

Would there be any way to salvage the cool aluminum case and put a different (all cherry mx) pcb inside it?

[Bry]

I don't like that they resort to lying about the logic behind using rubber domes on the function keys and the cluster above the arrows. I will not be supporting this kind of deception that far too many "gaming" companies continuously pull (sadly successfully) on "gamers" (who are apparently idiots because the keep buying this ****).

It's not that I'm mad about them saving money by putting rubber domes under some of the less used keys, it's that they lie about it and make it sound like some ****ing innovation. It's not, it's Corsair being a bunch of cheapasses. I expected more from a company that makes such good products (at least their power supplies are great).

[dorkvader]

Would there be any way to salvage the cool aluminum case and put a different (all cherry mx) pcb inside it?

Not really.

I mean, you could swap out the keyboard, or wire it with diodes to a teensy, but the function switches really wouldn't fit up with the cutouts for the rubber dome keys. Even if you machines them out, they'd have holes.

That's why we give this keyboard a frowny-face. Semicolon, Parenthesis.

[Retox]

That's a shame really, I think it looks great.

[AKIMbO]

I was very interested in the K60 until I found out that it's a hybrid mech.  Why Corsair chose to put rd's on the kb is beyond me.  What's sad is that it will still sell like hot cakes, since there are masses of uninformed gamers out there.

[popol]

thank you Corsair, now you can get out of keyboard :peace:

[flaming_june]

This keyboard design and subsequent explanation makes me want to punch corsair in the face.  Only because I want it so bad.

[doombug5000]

I realise this is my first post (at least I think it is), and the last thing I want to do is infuriate people but, I just feel like you all need to come back down to reality a little.

I totally understand the frustration regarding the hybrid nature of these keyboards, it almost caused me to not want to buy the k90 any-more.

However, after a couple of days to cool off and think about things I realised a few things.

1. I rarely use the f keys, for me they are generally awkward to reach for while intensely gaming so, for efficiency, I tend to map all keys around wasd and that tends to be enough (unless its a super-complicated-flight-sim).
2. I use the home/end/page up/page down keys even less. I work as a software engineer (programming), mostly in Linux and almost all the useful navigation is mapped to other keys (VIM) or performed with a mouse and other key combinations (Eclipse).
3. Rubber dome keys still function reliably despite not being mechanical and hence are 'good enough' for rarely used keys even if they aren't optimal.
4. I live in the UK and it's notoriously difficult to get good keyboards like (for example) Deck Legends (which I would love to have... one of)
5. This keyboard is still better (and cheaper) than a Razer Black-Widow.

And finally; This is still the best price/performance (EDIT: replace performance with personal requirements) compromise keyboard (despite the crappy rubber domes and despite corsairs refusal to appease keyboard enthusiasts by at least admitting they made a mistake) that I can reasonably get my hands on especially seeing as I want cherry reds.

All I'm saying is yah Corsair are being a bit... dumb with their handling of the situation but the keyboard is still decent enough to be worth buying. I highly doubt it but they might have actually done something 'special' with the rubber domes to make them not quite so sucky (as they seem to suggest they have), won't know until I try it I guess.

Anyway I just thought I'd uh, try and introduce some 'balance' (my apologies if I failed).

[duncan]

I agree with what you are saying except for this bit which leaves me wondering.

This is still the best price/performance compromise keyboard ... that I can reasonably get my hands on ...

What are the other boards and prices you are using to reach that conclusion?

Not saying you are wrong, just wondering how you decided this compromise product makes sense to you as a value proposition.

[doombug5000]

I agree with what you are saying except for this bit which leaves me wondering.


What are the other boards and prices you are using to reach that conclusion?

Not saying you are wrong, just wondering how you decided this compromise product makes sense to you as a value proposition.

Oh this is really down to personal preferences. Here are my requirements (in order of importance to me):

1. I want linear mechanical
2. I want cherry reds specifically
3. I want a full keyboard (more keys are good)
4. I want decent roll-over and no ghosting
5. I would like it to be fully back-lit
6. I would like it to have an aesthetic that I appreciate
7. It can't cost over £150

Anyway by those requirements, and after lurking and trawling this forum (along with many others) for over a year, I have never found anything that fits those requirements better (they are largely personal preferences as I stated). I would have bought a Deck Legend but if I'm honest I prefer the look of the vengeance and it will be significantly easier to get a hold of.

Edit: forgot to say, I should have worded it differently in my original post, (I thought I had) but obviously forgot to say the performance part of the price/performance compromise was more like price/personal requirements compromise. heh...

[bloodygood]

Yesterday I sent an email to Corsair's sales group asking about the K60's special 'gaming' WASD + 1~6 keycaps, asking if they were going to be selling the keycaps standalone or if they would be possible to special order later on. This was their response.
"We will have WASD and 1-6 as accessories and whole set of the keycaps down the road." - Kristine, Customer Service Group
I am not sure how many others were intrigued by them, but it seems you won't have to order the K60 to test them out. I plan on ordering a set to try on my Filco once they are released. I am glad I asked.