Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 775718 times)

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Offline ic07

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #400 on: Thu, 23 February 2012, 16:23:47 »
Quote from: Parak;511104
Hmm, that's a nice approach. SDA, SCL, Power, and Ground over the 4 conductors?

Would still need a willing sap^H^H^H volunteer to create some sample code, and breadboard test it with a small matrix, I suppose.

@parak/kps: You guys make it sound so hard.  The Teensy library documentation[1] makes it sound easy.  Which makes me feel naive, lol.  What am I missing?  The only problem (if it is one) that I can see is that this might only give us 6KRO without a lot of work.

( Some relevant stuff i found, just to put it here.  Sorry if everyone already knows:
- NKRO is possible with USB, but not common: geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=USB+versus+PS+2#Full+NKRO
- Phantom firmware.  I thought it was NKRO, but the post says it's 6KRO, so I'd have to read/learn more to figure it out: geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:26742
)

[1] pjrc.com/teensy/td_keyboard.html (with something to handle IC) in C, or pjrc.com/teensy/td_keyboard.html and pjrc.com/teensy/td_libs_Wire.html in what looks like C++

((sorry for the links, i can't post real ones yet))

EDIT:
Don't mean to clog the thread with dev stuff.  Please let me know if there's another place I should put it.

Offline litster

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #401 on: Thu, 23 February 2012, 16:29:06 »
Phantom's firmware is based off of Teensy's keyboard source.  It is 6KRO over USB right now.  When people get their hands on the Phantom hardware, hopefully it will turn into NKRO over USB.

Online sordna

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #402 on: Thu, 23 February 2012, 16:56:41 »
I wish the ErgoDox will be 6KRO for maximum compatibility with any computer / OS. When I see NKRO over USB I run, run away from it; to me it's a useless feature and so I prefer the USB standard to avoid any possibility of issues with the various OSs I use. I lived with 2KRO just fine for years, and 6KRO is even better, and six plus modifiers is really more simultaneous keys than I will ever need.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline alaricljs

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #403 on: Thu, 23 February 2012, 17:50:53 »
Quote from: sordna;523515
I wish the ErgoDox will be 6KRO for maximum compatibility with any computer / OS. When I see NKRO over USB I run, run away from it; to me it's a useless feature and so I prefer the USB standard to avoid any possibility of issues with the various OSs I use. I lived with 2KRO just fine for years, and 6KRO is even better, and six plus modifiers is really more simultaneous keys than I will ever need.

The interesting part about this is that the teensy NKRO I've seen is using USB standards and doing quite well at compatibility.  It's the mass-market usb-NKRO controllers that are introducing problems because of their poor implementation choices.
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Offline dorkvader

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #404 on: Thu, 23 February 2012, 23:27:23 »
Quote from: ic07;523490
@parak/kps: You guys make it sound so hard.  The Teensy library documentation[1] makes it sound easy.  Which makes me feel naive, lol.  What am I missing?  The only problem (if it is one) that I can see is that this might only give us 6KRO without a lot of work.

( Some relevant stuff i found, just to put it here.  Sorry if everyone already knows:
- NKRO is possible with USB, but not common: geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=USB+versus+PS+2#Full+NKRO
- Phantom firmware.  I thought it was NKRO, but the post says it's 6KRO, so I'd have to read/learn more to figure it out: geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:26742
)

[1] pjrc.com/teensy/td_keyboard.html (with something to handle IC) in C, or pjrc.com/teensy/td_keyboard.html and pjrc.com/teensy/td_libs_Wire.html in what looks like C++

((sorry for the links, i can't post real ones yet))

EDIT:
Don't mean to clog the thread with dev stuff.  Please let me know if there's another place I should put it.

I'd say that any development ideas you have are okay is this thread. I certainly find them more interesting than checked interest :P

So there already exists I2C for Teensy? I should have known. Looks like almost everything's been done on ATmega.

About #KRO: The Teensy supports NKRO logically, so it can recognize all the keystrokes, and keep them separate. As far as I know, the reason USB is usually 6KRO is due to bandwidth limitations, and it functioning on USB 1.1 for legacy (BIOS) purposes. There exists an implementation of NKRO over USB on the Teensy (see soarer), but I'm not 100% sure how it works out with the necessary bandwidth. My assumption has always been that it detects something from the computer and is only 6KRO (and slower) when it needs to be, then changes back to NKRO once it's into a full-OS, but I really have no idea.

See, I'm no EE, so I'm relatively new to this embedded system stuff. Also, I don't have a TEENSY, so I can't hardly breadboard an I2C solution.
---

Should I come up with a "roadmap" of stuff that needs to get done? I figure, if I do that, then people can tackle each bit, and we'd get more done faster. Like we could get the CAD files, and some people can talk to local machine shops. We can get someone working on implementing i2c as communication between the halves. We can get someone looking for solutions for the connector problem (either an easy cable for I2C or a larger one for passing the matrix) etc. Then we can have a list of design decisions to be made (fer example, number and placement of thumb keys, etc.)

Offline Laggy-gaga

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #405 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 09:07:15 »
I will take one if around $200 bucks
Working: Ducky Dragon Blue
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For sale:Benchmark DAC1+Stello U3+Amber,RS1i,GS1000i,HE400,HD650,w4r,se535LE
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Offline ic07

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #406 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 17:47:55 »
Quote from: dorkvader;523936
Should I come up with a "roadmap" of stuff that needs to get done? I figure, if I do that, then people can tackle each bit, and we'd get more done faster. Like we could get the CAD files, and some people can talk to local machine shops. We can get someone working on implementing i2c as communication between the halves. We can get someone looking for solutions for the connector problem (either an easy cable for I2C or a larger one for passing the matrix) etc. Then we can have a list of design decisions to be made (fer example, number and placement of thumb keys, etc.)


I think a roadmap, especially if it included a collection of relevant files, would be great :) .

And since I've been thinking about it so much for the last few days, maybe I should just go ahead and volunteer to write and breadboard test the firmware (including i2c).  I'm hoping two things though: 1) that if anybody more experienced than me wants to do it, somebody lets me know before I buy the chips, lol, and 2) that nobody minds if it's 6KRO for the moment, and written in C++ in the teensyduino environment.  If that works out all right, I'll go from there.  Also, I'm a comp. sci. undergrad, and I've never messed with firmware before, so I'm sure I'll need help with parts of it before I'm done (or at least a code review).  If some of my basic assumptions turn out to be wrong (e.g. the teensyduino Keyboard or Wire libraries end up not working for us) I'll likely need a *lot* of help.

If I do give it a shot, which Teensy and which I2C IO expander should I use?

EDIT:
There's a C implementation of TWI under the LGPL in the Arduino libraries.  I still wouldn't mind trying it out, but if someone who knows what they're doing wants to just use this and the Teensy USB: keyboard (and maybe the Phantom firmware) code to put something together, that might be quicker.

Offline Parak

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #407 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 19:09:46 »
Quote from: ic07;524691
If I do give it a shot, which Teensy and which I2C IO expander should I use?

As kps mentioned earlier, MCP23017 or MCP23018 should work here. I'm not at all sure what the difference between them is, even after looking at the datasheets, but 16 (outdated)/17/18 seem to have plenty of code samples floating around. Make sure to get the ones ending in SP, which indicates a DIP package.

A regular teensy will be plenty due to the port expander being used. You can get the one with pins presoldered, too.

I do wonder about the 2.5mm jack though. The datasheet has a couple of types, both switched and unswitched. The consideration here is to make sure that insertion and removal of a plug while the teensy is on and providing voltage won't damage the I2C extender, though I'm probably overthinking it and the nonswitched one (CP1-42514-ND) will be fine.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 February 2012, 19:13:02 by Parak »

Offline kps

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #408 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 21:31:49 »
Quote from: Parak;524775
I do wonder about the 2.5mm jack though. The datasheet has a couple of types, both switched and unswitched. The consideration here is to make sure that insertion and removal of a plug while the teensy is on and providing voltage won't damage the I2C extender, though I'm probably overthinking it and the nonswitched one (CP1-42514-ND) will be fine.
Yeah, I'm not sure about that either, though I'm just a programmer with a screwdriver. Personally I would use a mini-DIN connector (with at least 5 pins, and SPI rather than IC), but connector size seems to be a major concern here.

Offline molto

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #409 on: Mon, 27 February 2012, 21:21:21 »
I like the layout and would definitely would pay $50 for a PCB.  The case isn't worth hundreds of dollars to me.  I would rather just glue it down to a piece of plywood and save the money for the substantial amount that switches and keycaps will cost.  Is the plate necessary or will the PC hold the switches securely?

Tangential question, what do you-all think of splay (columns not parallel but farther apart at the top than the bottom)?  I think it is why I find the Microsoft Natural 4000 more comfortable than a GoldTouch but I'm not 100% sure.
y8 | Miniclip | y3 | friv | ben10 | y8 | kizi | y8 | y3  | y8 | pogo

Online sordna

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #410 on: Mon, 27 February 2012, 22:11:43 »
Having tried a Datadesk smartboard as well as a Kinesis Advantage (I also own a Goldtouch and a Microsoft natural0 I am firmly against any splay. Columns should be completely parallel and keys should be close together to minimize unnecessary hand/finger movement.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline REVENGE

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #411 on: Mon, 27 February 2012, 22:46:22 »
Quote from: sordna;528885
Having tried a Datadesk smartboard as well as a Kinesis Advantage (I also own a Goldtouch and a Microsoft natural0 I am firmly against any splay. Columns should be completely parallel and keys should be close together to minimize unnecessary hand/finger movement.
Trust the sordna!

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Offline dorkvader

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #412 on: Tue, 28 February 2012, 00:10:30 »
Quote from: molto;528809
I like the layout and would definitely would pay $50 for a PCB.  The case isn't worth hundreds of dollars to me.  I would rather just glue it down to a piece of plywood and save the money for the substantial amount that switches and keycaps will cost.  Is the plate necessary or will the PC hold the switches securely?
I'll put you down for PCB interest. It seems you're going key64-style on the case? Not a bad decision. You can even DIY it in acrylic relatively cheaply, and easily enough to be worthwhile.

Lucky for me, I will have enough switches to populate this, and with my purchasing habits, I don't really expect keycaps to be an issue.

---
As far as the plate/PCB, I think if we add plate-mount holes to the PCB, phantom-style, then you could go with either. IT makes he PCB more complicated, but is well worth it. Also, with the case design, we can have some extra plate-mounts made up for he people who will DIY their own cases. I wouldn't expect them to be too expensive, especially in the quantity we're after (And they are symmetric).

Offline ped

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #413 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 17:48:43 »
If this doesn't happen within 2 months then I'll be in if the price isn't much over $400, but for right now 7bit has made me bankrupt. :/

Offline Dox

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #414 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 18:45:15 »
HI guys, I've been very busy with work during the last few weeks but things are slowing down a bit so I'll have more time to work on this.
If someone want to experiment with I2C or SPI go ahead because I will not. If someone can develop something functional with 1 controller, I will implement it to the PCB design.

I have reworked the columns staggering as per sordna recommendation. Tell me what you guys think.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42238[/ATTACH]
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Online sordna

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #415 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 19:11:09 »
Hehe, subtle is nice. Hmm, I still think with just a 1-2mm adjustment we can fit another thumbkey:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42252[/ATTACH]
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ic07

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #416 on: Thu, 01 March 2012, 12:59:16 »
Thanks for the update, it's looking nice :) .

I ordered a Teensy 2.0 and some I2C chips the other day (along with some SPI ones just in case), so hopefully they'll come soon and I can make an attempt at the firmware.  I'm going to shoot for using the MCP23018 for now, which would allow us to use one 4-conductor 2.5mm jack (Vcc, GND, SCL, SDA), or two 2-conductor ones.  I'll let you guys know when I make some progress.

Offline dorkvader

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #417 on: Thu, 01 March 2012, 13:59:12 »
Why 2.5mm? What's wrong with 3.5mm? It's more common, and I suspect there are even better/more durable connectors to be had.

Still, I thank you for all the works you're doing, This will be an elegant solution.

Offline Parak

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #418 on: Thu, 01 March 2012, 14:17:45 »
The CUI 4 pin connectors have a difference of 1mm in height, 4mm for 2.5 vs 5mm for 3.5. As long as the 5mm one fits, then yeah, it'd be better as far as availability of cables goes. This doesn't matter for prototyping purposes though, except where it comes time to test live insertion/removal of the connector.

@ic07: Awesome, good luck!
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2012, 15:45:53 by Parak »

Offline Snarfangel

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #419 on: Thu, 01 March 2012, 14:20:27 »
Quote from: sordna;531330
Hehe, subtle is nice. Hmm, I still think with just a 1-2mm adjustment we can fit another thumbkey:

(Attachment Link) 42252[/ATTACH]


So...Shift, Space, Enter on one side, and Shift, E, Backspace on the other? :)

Of course, putting the E under the thumb isn't exactly QWERTY, but I do like how the blank keys are laid out..

Online sordna

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #420 on: Thu, 01 March 2012, 15:12:13 »
Heck, I might put L and S on the extra thumbs, so I can do "ls" in dvorak :-)
If you're not familiar with Dvorak, for "ls" you need to type "P;" (same pinky twice) on a QWERTY keyboard ...
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ic07

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #421 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 00:58:38 »
@dorkvader: Sorry if that came out wrong - I don't have a real preference for 2.5mm vs 3.5mm, I just kind of picked one to mention in the post, lol.  Actually, now that I look at them again, I might prefer 3.5mm (for durability, if there's room for it), but I'm not really worried either way.

@parak: Thanks!

Offline Dox

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White, Strong & Flexible
« Reply #422 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 11:58:49 »
I've been impressed with the quality of prints I've seen from shapeways lately so I'm considering getting the case 3D printed in plastic instead of machined/cut aluminium. I don't like the sharp edges and thicker border and screws of the layered aluminium plate design. Current volume for the case is 100.69cm^3 per hand so it would cost around 280$ for both hands in their white, strong & flexible material (like the humblehacker). The case could also be ordered in different colors offered by shapeways (black, red, grey, indigo) or dyed/painted afterward.

Renders!
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42548[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42549[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42550[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42551[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42552[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42553[/ATTACH]

Tell me what you think!
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline ironman31

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #423 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 12:13:22 »
280 seems kind of steep for just the plastic case. I dont mind the plastic, but only if its a good bit cheaper and the quality exceeds that of realforce boards
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution


Offline dirge

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #424 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 12:27:44 »
put me on the list for one please.
Thinking about things isn't the same as doing things. Otherwise everybody would be in jail.

Online sordna

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #425 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 13:38:51 »
Are those cutouts for costar stabilizers! I like it :-)  Btw you may want to get some stabilizers from wasdkeyboards to determine the exact dimensions & placement:
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts-1/cherry-mx-plate-mounted-stabilizer-clips-2pcs.html


Hey don't forget to "butterfly" the switch cutouts, a-la phantom.

Check this post from the KeyPoard thread, with dimensions:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:26845&p=530064&viewfull=1#post530064
« Last Edit: Sat, 03 March 2012, 13:41:02 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Parak

  • Posts: 529
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #426 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 15:24:40 »
Quote from: Dox;533995
Tell me what you think!

$280 for just the plastic case? That does seem to be a bit much. In general, I think people are willing to pay premium for metal cases that have been popping up recently because they represent something very different from the norm where most keyboards are made out of plastic.

Have you done/considered shopping around for CNC aluminum/steel pricing? Sharp edges would not be a problem there. If it's possible to make the switch plate mirror-able, then it would save some money as well.

Online sordna

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #427 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 15:30:54 »
To save cost I would be happy with a flat mounting plate/electronics/hardware, and a printout to help build a cardboard case.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline fim

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #428 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 19:20:31 »
I liked the initial idea of the aluminium case and 280$ for a plastic case seems a bit high, so I'd say stick with metal \m/

Offline ped

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #429 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 20:17:09 »
Metal case please. :D The $400ish price tag isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned, but only if it takes at least another 2 months or so. Dorkvader, could you put me on your interest list? I'll be in for one if it's not much more expensive than $400.

Offline dorkvader

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #430 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 21:36:04 »
Quote from: dirge;534015
put me on the list for one please.

Quote from: ped;534320
Metal case please. :D The $400ish price tag isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned, but only if it takes at least another 2 months or so. Dorkvader, could you put me on your interest list? I'll be in for one if it's not much more expensive than $400.
I'll add you both to the file and update later.

Yeah, I'm willing to pay for a metal case, but I think $280 for plastic is just too much.

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #431 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 23:33:07 »
Quote from: dorkvader;534378
Yeah, I'm willing to pay for a metal case, but I think $280 for plastic is just too much.

I agree.

Offline sicyo

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #432 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 09:08:17 »
I still like the shape but 280 is a bit much for plastic and one of my main interests here was getting the natural aluminum. Maybe we can find a newer machine shop with less of a steady business who would make it for cheaper.

To relay to the rest of the interested people in this thread: the machine shop I know can't do it without stopping production on their business and even then it would still be really expensive.

They did recommend laser cutting Dox's most recent Aluminum design though.

Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #433 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 10:21:47 »
If a metal case is out of the question, then we should get one bad-ass type of plastic to use, and make it THICK.
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution


Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #434 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 10:39:40 »
interested. willing to pay: $200-250

Offline Ascaii

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #435 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 02:33:00 »
Only interested in heavy metal. I would also be against having both options because it will drive up the prices considerably.
"Mechanical keyboards are like pokemon:
you start with one, and then you wanna catch em all."

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 55
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #436 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 04:30:59 »
I seem to be the first going this way (unless I've missed a post) but I don't care regarding metal vs. plastic. I'm in it for the split ergo layout with mechanical switches! Go for whatever's cheapest!

Offline Mycroftxxx

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #437 on: Thu, 08 March 2012, 11:03:53 »
I would be interested in make a purchase depending on final price/material.  
I'ld also be interented in helping out with the Firmware development and hardware selection.  Can anyone point me to the individual "In Charge" of this.

Offline ironman31

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #438 on: Thu, 08 March 2012, 11:24:27 »
Quote from: Mycroftxxx;539103
I would be interested in make a purchase depending on final price/material.  
I'ld also be interented in helping out with the Firmware development and hardware selection.  Can anyone point me to the individual "In Charge" of this.

Dox
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution


Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #439 on: Fri, 09 March 2012, 13:31:24 »
Quote from: Mycroftxxx;539103
I would be interested in make a purchase depending on final price/material.  
I'ld also be interented in helping out with the Firmware development and hardware selection.  Can anyone point me to the individual "In Charge" of this.

First, welcome to geekhack (haha, even though I'm new here myself).

Yup, Dox has the final say on everything, it's his project.  To some extent, hardware suggestions have been discussed in the thread.

For firmware, it's kind of me at the moment, since nobody else wanted to try writing one that used I2C to get the connector between the two halves down to 4 wires.  (Firmwares without that capability have already been written for other projects.)  That being said, I'm totally new to teensy development and figuring stuff out as I go, so I'm not really in a position to work with anyone... but you're quite free to write your own if you want.  If you do and it'd help, I'd be happy to open my forthcoming github account early and start posting my progress so we can share ideas.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6278
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #440 on: Sat, 10 March 2012, 00:24:53 »
I think it'd be awesome if we got some collaboration going on this project.

After thinking about it, I think metal is the way to go, and steel may well be better than aluminium. I'm thinking that the heavier metal will have a larger normal force on the desk, and therefore more friction and less slipping. Also, I really like items with heft!

I'm thinking either a clearcoated or stainless steel, or matte black/red would look the best, but that's all small stuff compared with firmware, etc.

If Y'all want to point me in the direction of some good firmware on teensy/atmel hardware, I'd be interested in looking at your development. I've got no experievce, so it's dubious as to how much I could help out.

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #441 on: Sat, 10 March 2012, 02:21:06 »
Here's the page of references I've been keeping as I figure stuff out: [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 43378[/ATTACH].  I'll start posting code when I have some :)

Offline speedkills

  • Posts: 13
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #442 on: Sat, 10 March 2012, 03:45:57 »
I'm in for one assembled under $500.  

How deep are the cases?  If cabling is an issue could you use RJ45 cables on the bottom of the units and plug the cables in facing down?  Two RJ45 flat cables are very flexible, flat, and are pretty small when laid on top of each other.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6278
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #443 on: Sat, 10 March 2012, 17:00:16 »
Added, and updated.

I think we determined that RJ45 (or 4P4C, etc.) are too tall to fit, though if it's close, we may be able to make it work out.

Offline hoggy

  • * Ergonomics Moderator
  • Posts: 1455
  • Location: Isle of Man
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #444 on: Sun, 11 March 2012, 00:32:35 »
Quote from: dorkvader;540798
I think it'd be awesome if we got some collaboration going on this project.

After thinking about it, I think metal is the way to go, and steel may well be better than aluminium. I'm thinking that the heavier metal will have a larger normal force on the desk, and therefore more friction and less slipping. Also, I really like items with heft!

I'm thinking either a clearcoated or stainless steel, or matte black/red would look the best, but that's all small stuff compared with firmware, etc.


I agree, but I've got a stupid limit of 1.4kg on my keyboard tray at work.  I'm sure I could manage 2kg, but that really would be it.

The biggest surprise anyone gets with a maltron is it's very low weight.  A lot of people associate low weight with cheapness - which I think is kind of normal behaviour, but it clashes with the price of titanium and carbon fibre...  A good solid heft to the ergodox would be welcome.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline faffer

  • Posts: 5
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #445 on: Sun, 11 March 2012, 04:38:59 »
Quote from: dorkvader;540798
I think it'd be awesome if we got some collaboration going on this project.
After thinking about it, I think metal is the way to go, and steel may well be better than aluminium. I'm thinking that the heavier metal will have a larger normal force on the desk, and therefore more friction and less slipping. Also, I really like items with heft!

Hot glue + lead fishing weights + whatever case material is cheapest.

Offline ped

  • Posts: 65
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #446 on: Sun, 11 March 2012, 07:43:46 »
Quote from: dorkvader;540798
I think it'd be awesome if we got some collaboration going on this project.

After thinking about it, I think metal is the way to go, and steel may well be better than aluminium. I'm thinking that the heavier metal will have a larger normal force on the desk, and therefore more friction and less slipping. Also, I really like items with heft!

I'm thinking either a clearcoated or stainless steel, or matte black/red would look the best, but that's all small stuff compared with firmware, etc.

If Y'all want to point me in the direction of some good firmware on teensy/atmel hardware, I'd be interested in looking at your development. I've got no experievce, so it's dubious as to how much I could help out.

I'd take a variation on that and get it done in aluminum and an optional brass plate insert for those that want extra weight, that way it would still be metal and people who have weight restrictions imposed by their keyboard trays can still use it.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6278
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #447 on: Sun, 11 March 2012, 11:38:44 »
What about galvanic corrosion? I suppose we could solve that with some thin plastic "plate" spacing it out.

Bytheway, Dox says the volume is 100.69 cm^3/hand. If that's the case (haha), and we go with steel (7.6 g/cm^3) then the weight of the case is "only" 1.58 kg. So even with steel, we'd likely be able to get it under 2Kg, depending on the weight of the switches, PCB, etc. (an AL case is ~543 grams)

Offline Parak

  • Posts: 529
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #448 on: Sun, 11 March 2012, 13:09:30 »
Maybe sandwiched acrylic ala litster? Just throwing another option out there as I don't care that much about the case material relatively speaking, as long as it's reasonably priced and isn't plain plastic.

Offline funkymeeba

  • CRUMPULAR
  • Posts: 404
  • Location: Colorado
  • WEST SHINJUKU PLANTING TUNE
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #449 on: Mon, 12 March 2012, 01:33:56 »
I'm not sure how much litster-style acrylic cases would cost, but I will say that those cases he made are very nice, and I certainly wouldn't mind a similar thing for these boards.
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