01. Dox...................2. (The creator himself!)
02. DorkVader.............1. (Very likely)
03. iWuzHere..............1p (under $150-200)
04. demik.................1? (Looks Awesome, worried about soldering)
05. Litster...............1. (Definitely interested)
06. Sordna................1-2(Looks GREAT!) (will save 200 without case)
07. RColinTaylor..........1p (if under $300)
08. Mazora................1? (dependent on layout)
09. Input Nirvana.........1? (Possible Interest)
10. TheSoulHunter.........1p ($300 range)
11. Christoffer.Braathen..1. (ALL IN!!!)
12. Bretrex...............1. (Pcb only)
13. Karacho...............1. (I want one)
14. Quarzac...............1p (Interested, but worried about cost)
15. REVENGE...............1. (Fantastic Project)(definitely want one now)
16. Sleuth................1p (will see about cash)
17.
18. Ascaii................1. (very interested; Heavy Metal only)
19. Laffindude............1p (under $300) (still in this)
20. Chef..................2.
21. eagleeye..............1P (under $300, depending on design)
22. cyclonechuah..........1P (I'm interested if it's under $300.)
23. Gilgam................1
24.
25. Gfresh404.............1P (maybe around $200)
26. inaneframe............3+. (Currently looking to sell his car) ("Dox, you're beautiful")
27. funkymeeba............1P (under $350 or so) (or more!)
28. Hoggy.................1. (This is exactly what he needs!)
29. mharrison.............1. (One if by trackpoint)
30. wrtcedar..............1P (If under ~$300+)
31.
32. fim...................1. (Does not want to solder)
33. obra..................1. (interested in soldering service)
34. bonega................1. (Soldered & ship to sweden, under 300)
35. richie................1. (under $400& assembled)
36. parak.................1? (Possible)
37. Ironman31.............1. (If the keys come with it)
38. mioytan...............1P (under 300)
39. boli..................1-2($400)
40. Icarium...............1P ($400)
41. moogatronic...........1P (under $400)
42. dzd...................1. (Wants one too!)
43. itlnstln..............1. (would be in for one)
44. heuristicist..........2P ($500 for all parts. $600 tops.)
45. REVENGE...............1+ (Definately interested)
46. Zanth.................1. (I would be in for one)
47. Tafryn................1P (around $300)
48. Thirdkind.............2. (definitely be in for 2)
49. Sicyo.................1. (Would certainly be interested)
50. pjpettis..............1? (I'm about 95% in for one.)
51. ksweber...............1. (I am also interested in getting one)
52. jedcred...............1. (Interested up to the shoulder with this design)
53. gilgam................1. ("i want one of this" Who doesn't?)
54. Salash................1. (Standard message of interest)
55. minnus................1. (Please add me to the interest list as well)
56. ekw808................1p (under 200)
57. ic07..................4P*(2-4 pcb and 0-2 cases, depending on price)
58. Laggy-gaga............1p (around 200)
59. dirge.................2. (One put down [on] the list)
60. ped...................1p (Not much over 400 :D )
61. Kisakuku..............1.
62. seferphier............1p (200-250)
63. Mycroftxxx............1p (depends on material)
64. speedkills............1p (500, assembeld)
65. molto.................1p (50, PCB only)
66. Jesuswasazombie.......1p (Awesome if under 200)
67. Inf3rn0_44............1p (Interested under 300)
68. geekabit..............1p (Interested under 200)
69. Necroleachate.........1p (Dreams will be fulfilled if under 200)
70. jblack801.............1p (Definately in for $250)
71. tradet................1p (Maybe under 200 tempts him)
72. beguiledfoil..........1p (under 400 and blank)
73. itunesacc.............1p (around 200)
74. rburrows..............1p (around 400 soldered)
75. tjweir................1p (interest at 300)
76. OrangeJewce...........1-2(400 for all, assembled)
77. Spharx................1p (miraculously 200)
78. Sherryton.............1. (Dork put him down)
79. bjarven...............1. (Interest Looks Great!)
80. Whiterice.............1p (I'm in. 400.)
81. Autolyze..............1. (totally interested)
82. didjamatic............1-3(Depends on final price)
83. merijn................1p (Starving Student Budget)
84. mSSM..................1-2(well interested)
85. effh..................2. (PCB for amazing firmware/hacking ability)
86. Salisen...............1p (interested in "300")
87. Zifle.................1. (Timeline and Interest Check.)
88. forcefollow...........2-3(hopes it will be produced soon)
89. Surger................1-2(Most definately interested, what about f# keys?)
90. Djuzuh................1p (might be interested, depending on price)
91. ashleydev.............1. (Can I put in an order?)
92. bisl..................3. (kinesis/ergoDOX club)
93. braaaiiins............1P (Pcb only if under 100)
94. SubGothius............1P ($500 budget.)
95. Hashbaz...............1. (Added to list.)
96. localredhead..........1. (Count me in!)
97. jochu.................1-2(Consider me interested)
98. prdlm2009.............1. (may be interested)
99. Tsangan...............1. (interested only after seeing the prototype working)
100.Mkawa.................1. (in to help as usual)
101.StaCT13...............1p (under $500 for everything, assembled)
102.The_Beast.............1. (Always interested in a pcb)
103.docomoz...............1. ("I'm in. No matter what the cost")
104.kta...................1p ($500 range, at least noe set)
105.bebuxe................1. (No matter what the cost!)
106.gdaian................1. (Ergodox relieves frustration)
Removed interest:
31. Architect.............1-3. (one for sure. two more possible)
01. Webwit................1. (I'm in for one if it comes to a group buy.)
02. jakobcreutzfeldt......1. (Too "mad" to be marked yet)
03. xbb...................1. (Thanks added to list)
04. jcrouse...............1. ("I want one list")
05. pingbat...............1. (utron dreams)
06. forcefollow...........1. (one to replace his drool-damaged HHKB
07. wiredPANDA............1. (Watches it develop)
08. domoaligato...........1-2(from following this thread)
09. PrinsValium...........3. (See #12 on GH. Needs a couple for "Reference")
10. HzFaq.................1. (Really startnig to look awesome)
11. bjarven...............1. (Waiting on this or kinesis
12. yobfish...............1. (Joined the forum to be added!)
13. nathanak21............1P (Without breaknig the bank)
14. mintberryminuscrunch..1. (PCB Only)
15. Findecanor............1. (all but case)
16. DanGWanG..............1. (In for one!)
17. AKIMbO................1. (Looks Amazing)
18. ondast................1. (Interested in full version)
19. justcallmecrash.......1-2(Again, depending on the costs. If it really is $30 ->2)
20. regak.................1-2(Got his name down.)
21. Possum................1. (Who wouldn't want one?)
22. Damorgue..............1.
23. yobfish...............1
24. maxrunner.............1p (200-250)
25. nodnerb...............1 (In for one pair)
26. Jim66.................1. (Moved From GH)(will be in for one)
27. Kurrk.................1P (under the magic $300)
28. WarlockD..............1. (Exactly what He's been looking for)
29. maxrunner.............1. (he's interested in any way!)
30. Aleksander............1. (He's on the list now, that's an excuse to get one)
31. Fossala...............1. (on the list now)
32. plaset36..............1. (interested in one)
33. gilsoriano............1. (One whole)
34. stevedreams...........1. (Has been counted)
35. off...................1? (really starting tolook great)
36. bill..................1. (case and PCB's)
37. TheProfosist..........1. (somewhat interested)
38. SubGothius............2. (two PCB's and more case ideas)
39. mikelanding...........1. (Put me 1 in)
40. Ian S.................1? (Subscribed)
41. judascleric...........1? (ErgoDOX is an awesome project)
42. sc3...................1. (In for 1 set of PCB's and maybe a case)
43. lowkey144.............1. (added to this list)
44. trygg.................1-2(if the price is right)
45. AloisiusFauxly........1. (At least PCB to dip in Canadian Syrup)
wiredPANDA
Hoggy
Fim
Obra
Demik?
bonega
Richie
Boli (1-2)
Icarium
itlnstln (assembled up to the keycaps in cherry brown)
Mazora ?
Zanth (assembled up to the keycaps reds or browns)
Thirdkind (natural Al, assembled, 'Otaku', Reds)
Sicyo (natural Al assembled)
speedkills
rburrows (would probably be okay with a kit)
OrangeJewce (1-2)
Surger
Quarzac
yobfish
domoaligato
gilsoriano
mikelanding
jochu
StaCT13
The Profosist (USA)
Dork Vader (USA)
Geekabit (EU)
Dirge (UK)
localredhead (?)
(I am sure there will be others when the time comes)That's not a very high number to make. We should be able to get at least 5. Input Nirvana should be getting at least 2! ;) More demand if we include the Korean community.
What kind of keycaps would fit? Geninue double shot Cherry keycaps? Any suggestions on the default layout?
Why flat?
Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28310&d=1318280038)Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28376&d=1318342570)
Your keymaps don't match the keycap layout on the picture. On the picture, the left side, top row has one 2x width key on the left and six 1x width keys. The bottom row is also missing a 1x width key.I know, the layout pictures are from the key64. I need to work on the correct one for this iteration.
looks great! an aluminum kinesis! i have comments if you want to hear them... they might sound negative tho, so i don't want to sound like i'm thread crapping.I'm want to hear your comments. That's the purpose of this thread.
I know, the layout pictures are from the key64. I need to work on the correct one for this iteration.
Thanks sordna, I'll look at what I can do to add some more thumb buttons.
Is it possible to make the two large outermost thumb keys into 2 separate keys each?i wouldn't recommend it, as in 2 seperate buttons up and down? you kinda want a longer 1.25 key to (rest) your thumb on.
i wouldn't recommend it, as in 2 seperate buttons up and down? you kinda want a longer 1.25 key to (rest) your thumb on.Thanks for the input! I will try to work on the thumb area in general this week and post some new render when it's done. As for the keycaps, I really have no plan for this yet but I like the idea of the spherical home row only.
i'd recommend something like this
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/freestyle-vip-features.htm
not all those features, but instead of how ppl put the feet/tabs that make a keyboard slope on an incline, do that to the two boards and have 4 small feet/tabs(2 per side) so that you can slope it inwards.
like sordna, i'd recommend following kinesis thumb layout more than the c64, that is to have the 6 buttons on the thumb area, rather having extended buttons past towards the del/tab/numlk/enter area.
if you "force" yourself to learn to use enter/backspace with the thumbs, these aren't needed.
i've mocked the layout (since i actually had pcb's laying around) and for a 5 10' guy, the thumbs are really close, i think they need to be out more.
imo and prolly sordna has more experience, the spherical keycaps on a kinesis homerow are awesome, while the rest of the keycaps are regular cylindrical. I believe this is the best arrangement because the spherical will allow you find "home row" easily while moving towards the other keys freely with a cylindrical shape.
I guess f-keys are done by some keylock?
Hats off! Love it! I see the Key64 influence. My input: I would strongly suggest a serious consideration for an integrated pointing device. I've had my split Kinesis (see signature link) and I can tell you from over 6 months experience, that once you split, separate, incline, ergo layout, ergo key position, and macro, that moving your hand off the home row for cursor pointing becomes absolutely ridiculous. And that's the polite way of expressing the emotion. I have an Apple Mighty Mouse on the left and an IBM trackpoint on the right. I like touch pads and some trackballs, but again, leaving the home row becomes a cumbersome chore. As a matter of fact, the integrated pointing device really started the split Kinesis project.Thanks input nirvana, I will seriously consider an integrated trackpoint in the design. I got to say that I spent a lot of time looking at that kinesis wiki.
Regarding keywell curvature: I may not understand Sordnas view of the Kinesis wells being too curved, but then again, I rest my hands on the Kinesis palm pads. My hands are a mens large, so maybe that has something to do with it? I have a Kinesis Freestyle, and prefer the curved keywells, but the Freestyle is not a matrix layout nor does it have the columns height adjusted. I have not used anything like this particular configuration.
I didn't notice, but is there any work on an awesome programmable controller?
I have possible interest :)
NOTE:
I've recently had some extreme changes in my life that have dramatically shifted my time and priorities. I was about to administer the wood key cap buy, try and lead the custom controller project, and do some in-depth reviews with awesome pics of my Datahand, Alphagrip, Kinesis, and fully update and document the split Kinesis project. I wanted to build up these areas for Geekhack since GH has done so much for me. I apologize to anyone that has been waiting for me to perform on various topics, as I'm not certain when I will be able to continue.
P.S.
Wood key caps will probably go through WASD Keyboards soon.
Id get one if its in the 300 USD range...Good to know, thanks!
why not just taking baby steps first like.Because I can, and the only way to get things the way I want them is to build it myself (my first and only cherry based boards are my doxkb).
Reuse an ergonomic shell like the goldtouch board (not expensive) and add a custom PCB + internal logic + switches.
Regarding keywell curvature: I may not understand Sordnas view of the Kinesis wells being too curved
NOTE:
Kinesis, and fully update and document the split Kinesis project.
I'd throw in for just the pcbs. It shouldn't be difficult to lay out the circuit board to be functional mirrored, allowing you to use the same board for both sides, helping cut the per-board cost. The full metal enclosure seems a bit rich for my blood, but would make an amazingly solid input device for those who can afford it.The pcbs wont be symmetrical as the controller is on one half and the columns and rows of the other half have to be routed to the other side. The mounting plate will be symmetrical.
I reworked the thumb area a bit. Tell me what you think.
(Attachment) 28744[/ATTACH]
The pcbs wont be symmetrical as the controller is on one half and the columns and rows of the other half have to be routed to the other side. The mounting plate will be symmetrical.You could just leave the controller area blank on one of the boards, but I don't think this will work because I don't think the cherry switch is symmetrical.
Do you have a plan view (top view) pic of the design?
That looks like the thumb-key configuration that the Kinesis has. I find that on my Kinesis, I can not reach for the smaller thumb keys easily, and I wish that there was instead a key in-between the thumb keys and the main group. For me, the problem is mostly with the "Alt" keys, which is the topmost thumb key in each of the Kinesis' thumb groups.
You could just leave the controller area blank on one of the boards, but I don't think this will work because I don't think the cherry switch is symmetrical.
In my opinion and in result of my own tests, two buttons for the thumbs are best.
Additional thumbbuttons are not good to reach.
I dont know, I still have a lot of work to do on the design and I'll have to save some cash too. I was thinking that maybe in 2-3 months would be good.
I was wondering if you could simplify the design. Here's what I was thinking.Show Image(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/calaveratf/keyboards/b.jpg)
Or something more drastic and "dynamic."Show Image(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/calaveratf/keyboards/a.jpg)
(my first and only cherry based boards are my doxkb).
Thought you said you had a WYSE around here somewhere?I got a wyse on ebay for the keycaps and to try some different switches (black and getto red) for my doxkbs.
It seems like every day my interest in this project grows. If we can get this under $200: I'm in for sure, under $250: good chance, under $300: okay chance, depends on timing.
Given the interest garnered thus far, it sort of looks like we've a shot of getting 10+ made, which is pretty awesome.
Show Image(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/calaveratf/keyboards/b.jpg)
might wanna think about lining up the num-row with the fingers like kinesis/maltron. It's actually easier for me now to touch type numbers on a matrix layout, than ever before, and i'm a numpad snob (of course i'll always num-type faster with num-pad, but matrix num-row is very good).
Edit: Oh, and is "ErgoDOX" a good name? I read it somewhere, and liked it.
So I wanted to look at the number of people interested in this, so I added up everyone that looks like they may be in on one
Dox is the only one who said they want 2.
p means they are dependant on price,
? means they didn't specifically say they wanted one, but looked interested from their posts.
Parenteses indicate notes I took from their posts.
So I count ~6 or so who are interested regardless of anything.
If the cost is acceptable the number grows significantly to ~12
The total of all people who look interested is 19 ( or actually 20 sets of boards, and 19 sets of cases.)
So if we got 15-20 orders of this, what would the price look like? 'Cause if it means it'll be $250-$350, we'll get a LOT of interest.
ErgoDox Interest check Compilation:
01. Dox...................2
02. DorkVader.............1p (see above)
03. iWuzHere..............1p (Looks sweet)
04. demik.................1? (Looks Awesome, worried about soldering)
05. Lister................1 (Definately interested)
06. Sordna................1 (Looks GREAT!)
07.
08. Mazora................1? (dependant on layout)
09. Input Nirvana.........1? ("Possable Interest")
10. TheSoulHunter.........1p ($300 range)
11. Christoffer.Braathen..1 (ALL IN!!!)
12. Bretrex...............1 (Pcb only)
13. Karacho...............1 (I want one)
14. Quarzac...............1p (Interested, but worried about cost)
15. REVENGE...............1? (Fantastic Project)
16. Sleuth................1p (will see about cash)
17. Jim66.................1? (Will keep eye on thread)
18. Ascaii................1 (very interested)
19. Laffindude............1p (if under $300)
Hope this helps!
---
Edit: Oh, and is "ErgoDOX" a good name? I read it somewhere, and liked it.
Let's do it! I want to solder something!
You read it here:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22412-Truly-Ergonomic-Communication-Sept-27-2011&p=431524&viewfull=1#post431524
I'm quite interested, especially if the keyboard comes with all the parts (including red MX switches), and preferably assembled and working :-)
none for me, i'm just giving feedback from my experience modding a similar layout and using kinesis.
red switches are very hard to get. If you want red switches, you are better off buying and gutting a Poker or Leopold tenkeyless or some other cheaper red-switch keyboards. It might not be a bad idea as I think you can resell the Leopold keycaps, especially that "special" spacebar :-).It's not that special after SP gets production up for the 6-post "combined" spacebars.
100% agree. All split matrix keyboards are consistent, Kinesis, Maltron, Typematrix, and even the TrulyErgonomic as well as the Fingerworks Touchstream (my photo below).
1 is above Q, 5 is above T, 6 is above Y, 0 is above P (assuming qwerty layout).
(Attachment) 30155[/ATTACH]
I would *probably* be interested at $300 depending on the final design.I'll add you now. :)
Please put me down on the list :)
Note on the thumb keys:Could you indicate the location of the keys that you would like to add on my render, this sounds interesting.
Kinesis users will attest that the quantity of keys in the thumb cluster is a big plus. I have never heard of anyone unhappy with the quantity of thumb keys, and a couple wanted more. With my unscientific experiments, I have come to the conclusion that 2 additional keys per thumb could be added within the EXISTING 'range of thumb movement'. A 3rd key (low frequency) with a slight additional movement could be added. I may have a pic in my Kinesis Split Mod article...
Note on case design:
Being a Kinesis user I'm very in tune with this part....it seems to me that the case needs to be as minimal as possible where the butt of your palm would be -OR- larger with a palm rest "built in". Probably only Kinesis users will see this the way I do.
I'd like to hear some feedback on this.
Would it be possible to add holes to screw in 'legs'?
Saw a photo a long while back showing a metal keyboard that had holes to screw in some pegs (these had a threaded metal shaft and a rubber base). If there's two or three holes in line, then the user can choose the hole to control the tent.
Just an idea, sadly it adds a bit to the cost.
I'm interested if it's under $300.interest checked (and added to the list)
More interested in lilster layout thou, prefer qwerty. looks like my ordered double shot from 7bit won't be as compatible as this awesome split type keyboard.
For cherry MX switch, i can supply you, if you're interested.
I would be interested, but it looks like the keyboard was designed without thought for the functionality. there isnt even enough keys for all of the standard keys on a keyboard. heres my thoughts: you need to have all of the standard keys exactly where you would expect to find them. i would put space on both sides on thumb keys, and the second thumb key could be CTRL on the left and ALT on the right. the row on the bottom needs another key (underneith the shift keys on both sides) so that the bottom row can be F1 through F12. the thick vertical keys (on the inside of the setup) should be split up to make sure you have enough keys for every standard key to be where it should be in a qewrty layout. i personally would ditch anything (besides numbers) that can be on a number pad, such as home, page up, page down, end, and the arrow keys. maybe the escape key should be split up to fit the tilde next to it. plus, it could then work with novelty escape keys. (or you could move the esc key up to where it says ergodox, and put ergodox next to the lights on the right hand pad. i think that would look cool.Then, you will have to make your own because I don't agree with the majority of your points. Thanks for your impressions.
all in all, i love the idea, but i think it needs a major rework before i would commit money to the end product.
Wow, how could I have overlooked thuis thread until now ? I am absolutely interested if the price doesnt exceed 300 usd by too much. It will be fully programmable, right?Adding you now. Glad you're interested. :p
Add me on the list please.Adding you as well.
for everything (the switches i may get them from the group buy).
For the record I am not interested.Added.
It is so awesome that we have so many keyboard projects going on here. Really look forward to this one.
I'd definitely be down for one but not for $400. Maybe around $200 though
. . . don't know whether I want to have browns or clears though. I really need to try out some clears because I have no idea whether I'd like them or not.
Just so we're clear, the standard will be Colemak with control to the LEFT of the A!?? OMFG! That's my layout! This is MY keyboard! So epic!I would say the "standard" is 100% programmable for this one. You should be able to set yours up that way, yes. I plan to have a similar thing, but with Dvorak.
I'm LITERALLY in keyboard nirvana right now!
The only thing I might want to change is get rid of the Alt-Gr, put the FN there and place the Enter key where the FN was.
I am DOWN with this $300 or $400 whatever!
. . . don't know whether I want to have browns or clears though. I really need to try out some clears because I have no idea whether I'd like them or not.
You know, I'm not sure why I didn't look at this sooner. It looks pretty sweet. Consider me game if the cost doesn't exceed $350 by much. If MX clears are an option that would be quite swell. If Colemak is the standard, it would be great if I could get caps to fit QWERTY, but I'm sure that's something that I can do even outside of this project.
(Attachment) 34671[/ATTACH]
Hey Dox-
Is this attached image a possible alternative layout? I mean - would that work, or does something prevent that? Or is it possible to position the part above the keys vertically below them, thus creating a foot-bar type thing? I'm not really asking for this as much as trying to better understand the possibilities for keyboard designs.
Who's running this project, Dox or dorkvader? I'm confused.
Could you indicate the location of the keys that you would like to add on my render, this sounds interesting.
I've been working a lot recently and I didn't had much time to put on this but I will continue as soon as I can. I want this to happen.
Oh and a soda fountain built-in! Spikes! We need spikes so that we can decimate our enemy if they ever attack us entrenched in our offices!Almost exactly the same thing happened in Plato's Republic
Oh, oh and you should build-in windshield wiper units so it can clean itself and your monitor. Maybe a vacuum unit built into the bottom of it so it can keep a tidy desktop. . . better make it a wet/dry vac to handle any wayward bodily fluids. . . speaking of which, have you considered attaching a robotic arm that it could like you know reach. . . umm nevermind :tape2:
Almost exactly the same thing happened in Plato's Republic
Yup, on the right, between the YUHJ keys, per Input Nirvana's research (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8110) on the topic ...
I'm LITERALLY in keyboard nirvana right now!
Input nirvana????
Hey Dox, I have two items to nag you about:Keep your input coming!
1)
I've spent a tremendous amount of time contemplating/using/experimenting with Kinesis key placement/add/delete/moves. I believe the most recent render is the best there can be WITHOUT moving fingers from the home row. This is almost the same as what I came up with. (my pic is pretty bad, and the added keys are covering some existing keys, but it's a mock up). It's perfectly ok to have keys that you need to move off home row to hit, but I decided I will not address that until I have made every effort to keep keys within the target range of fingers/thumbs and staying on home row.
(Attachment) 35228[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 35229[/ATTACH]
These are some of my thoughts on the right hand keywell (matching your right hand render):
-The white key extreme lower right under the shift (pinky activated) was to possibly be a Fn key and is replicated on the left keywell. (I've added these 2 keys to my mod, it's quite excellent).
-The white key under the arrow key, next to the right of the space key, if a little lower could be Sordnas palm activated shift key (maybe use a long key?).
Palm key could be interesting.
-The white key to the left lower side of thumb cluster, allows activation without leaving home row.
I'll see what I can do for this but as a vim user, I got to say that there is already enough keys for my intended layout.
-The long white keys to the left of "HN" and "6Y" I was undecided if they could be square (2 square keys to the left of "Y" and "H") or the long keys you see for easier touch-type targets.
Yeah I was thinking that those long keys being further inside could be easier to hit.
The reasons I have been so hell-bent on increasing the number of keys, and keeping them within touch-type range, was to be able to provide dual modifiers (per Sordna, Architect). These adds allow 5 keys per side. With what I have here, Command/Windows, CTRL, ALT/OPT, shift, Fn, can be used by either hand, and still have the ability to have dual enters or whatever. And still have the option of a couple keys that take your fingers off home row, if you really want to do that :)
Dual modifiers is possible in with the current render for me but I understand that some people may need some extra keys and I will consider it.
2)
Regarding the integrated trackpoint (or pointing device). I strongly suggest that you don't feel you can't move forward without it, but don't dare move forward unless you have made provisions for it. Again, I've spent so much time on this. Ask yourself this one question: Why am I making this? A: Ergonomics. What's more un-ergonomic than taking your hand off home row and off the keyboard?. Easy options for pointing devices are trackpoint, multi-direction scrollwheel, and thumb scrollball (see Alphagrip AG-5, I'm a huge fan of these things).
I don't think I said it before but I would LOVE to have an integrated trackpoint. The only problem that I see is...... Where can you buy these things?? I think all the mods with trackpoint I've seen were from some hacked IBM rubber dome keyboards. I have to have something "standard" to be able to implement it correctly. I currently don't even own a trackpoint. If somebody have a source for these we need your help. Otherwise, the best I can do is the place a hole in the plate and PCB and put some traces on the PCB to connect one and leave the choice to the user. You will however always have the options to use mouse keys on a fn (or primary) layer.
Random note. You know this design is screaming to be mounted on chair arms, or similar. What about a pointing device option then? What about tenting this keyboard...even worse, you'd have to "un-tent" your wrist to use a mouse or whatever, then "re-tent". How stone age and RSI prone is that?
I got a few mounting ideas that I want to try and chair mounted is one of them. I know... I know... integrated pointing device....
Hehe, I N at his finest. Just one note on the palm key: Where you have it on your mock up, it's actually an extra (and welcome!) thumb key.
By palm key, I mean a key that will be lower than the thumb cluster, like this:
(Attachment) 35247[/ATTACH]
But the location you put your key, is actually a welcome extra thumbcluster key, especially if you make it parallel with the thumb keys and align it so it lines up with the bottom edge of the space.
I will send an email to unicomp to see what they can do. The trackpoint is not an absolute requirement but it would be a great feature.
No LCD.
I did not have luck with this. I spoke with Bob. Maybe you can do better.
No, the trackpoint is not an absolute requirement, but your exploring all avenues is. You have a great project with a lot of insight. Don't take a last minute short-cut, it's too valuable. Information is power. I'll help you if I can. You can always PM me.
I can be very unhelpful if given the chance.
Synaptics used to, I don't know about anymore though.
I got a few mounting ideas that I want to try and chair mounted is one of them.
If you saw the chair mount mechanics in the Split Kineisis mod article...I've looked at doing a lot of things, that one is the most simple, versatile, robust, and affordable.
I did not have luck with this. I spoke with Bob. Maybe you can do better.
No, the trackpoint is not an absolute requirement, but your exploring all avenues is. You have a great project with a lot of insight. Don't take a last minute short-cut, it's too valuable. Information is power. I'll help you if I can. You can always PM me.
Hi Guys, i have been disconnected from geekhack since last months and then i found this project. What a nice surprise to found somebody who was developing a project with ideas coming from the key64 keyboard.
I started designing the key64 at the begining of the year after the TE fiasco, none of their concepts are new i just borrow them from information i found at geekhack, deskthority and overclock.net and made references to them at the design page (http://www.key64.com/keyboards) with the hope someday i will make it real.
Geekhack is a wonderful place to anybody who find keyboards exciting, but is very addictive so i decided to stay away for a while, Dox: your keybord "the dox keyboard" is awesome, while i still prefer to be minimalistic in design, and follow the key64's motto "No more keys you can type on" i wish you make your design a reality, and share your experiences with us as you have one on the past with the staggered one.
keep up the good work !
p.d. Input Nirvana: i don't like the idea of a trackpoint inside a keyboard. I have a thinkpad and in my personal experience is so painful and is not as faster and as comfortable as a trackball, right now i use a logitech marble mouse, coming from a kensigton trackball.
I also own a Fingerworks Touchstream, which has mousing on the keyboard itself, and that feature is so amazingly awesome that you can't believe.
qwert
asdfg
zxcvb
qwfpg
arstd
zxcvb
KEY:
> = Mouse Speed Increase
< = Mouse Speed Decrease
⇖⇑⇗⇐⇒⇙⇓⇘ = Mouse Movements
0 = Mouse 0 or Left Mouse Button
ǀ = Mouse 1 or Middle Mouse Button
ǁ = Mouse 2 or Right Mouse Button
^ = Scroll Up
ⱽ = Scroll Down
^⇖ ⇑ ⇗ >
ǀ ⇐ 0 ⇒ ǁ
ⱽ ⇙ ⇓ ⇘ <
>⇖ ⇑ ⇗ ^
0 ⇐ ǀ ⇒ ǁ
<⇙ ⇓ ⇘ ⱽ
>⇖ ⇑ ⇗ ^
ǁ ⇐ ǀ ⇒ 0
<⇙ ⇓ ⇘ ⱽ
xkbset m # enable mousekeys
xkbset exp =m # avoid expiring mousekeys
# Choose a keymap that has an extra layer (level 3),
# add compose key (shift+ralt) and caps lock toggle by pressing both shifts:
setxkbmap 'us(altgr-intl)' -option lv3:ralt_switch_multikey,shift:both_capslock
# menu to grave/tilde:
xmodmap -e 'keycode 135 = grave asciitilde grave asciitilde'
# rwin/super to altgr:
xmodmap -e 'remove mod4 = Super_R'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 134 = ISO_Level3_Shift Multi_key'
# caps to altgr (shift+caps locks it!):
xmodmap -e 'remove Lock = Caps_Lock'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 66 = ISO_Level3_Shift ISO_Level3_Lock'
# numpad (just the keys needed for mouskeys)
xmodmap -e 'keycode 30 = u U u U KP_7 KP_Home'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 31 = i I i I KP_8 KP_Up'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 32 = o O o O KP_9 KP_Prior'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 44 = j J j J KP_4 KP_Left'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 45 = k K k K KP_5 KP_Begin'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 46 = l L l L KP_6 KP_Right'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 58 = m M m M KP_1 KP_End'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 59 = comma less comma less KP_2 KP_Down'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 60 = period greater period greater KP_3 KP_Next'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 19 = 0 parenright 0 parenright KP_0 KP_Insert'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 47 = semicolon colon semicolon colon KP_Decimal KP_Delete'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 20 = minus underscore minus underscore KP_Subtract KP_Subtract'
xmodmap -e 'keycode 61 = slash question slash question KP_Divide KP_Divide'
# that's all folks
I'm not sold on the trackpoint yet myself, but I imagine it'd probably be optional anyway.
...
Want me to put you on the list as under $400?
One thing though - I really need a third key above the first double wide in the thumb block. Let's not just use the Kinesis design but improve on it. That extra key will allow for three modifier keys on both sides (Windows, Alt, Control or Command, Option, Control)
I like the idea of the three modifiers being available on both sides. What would that change do to the position of the thumb block relative to the rest of the keys? Or did I not follow what you were suggesting?
Architect, I don't think an extra key is needed, because this keyboard has extra keys in the middle that can be used as modifiers.
If it goes to production I'll buy three.Added!
Like so many others, I'm confident that I'd want one at $300. I might have to think a bit about a cost that's significantly above that, but I like this idea enough that I can't rule it out. How's that for a mushy answer? I guess "$300+" works for now.Changed!
One thing though - I really need a third key above the first double wide in the thumb block. Let's not just use the Kinesis design but improve on it. That extra key will allow for three modifier keys on both sides (Windows, Alt, Control or Command, Option, Control)(emphasis mine)
I'm always surprised to hear ergonomic arguments in favor of the TrackPoint. I can't use them because they drive my tendonitis wild, so I view them as an RSI disaster. I used to work on projects with a group run by the inventor of the TrackPoint. This view wasn't very popular there.Ugh, I used to have to put my wrists (and hands) in ice for 20 minutes, back when I was doing gymnastics. As a whole, Men's gymnastics is much worse on the wrists than women's, and pommel-horse especially so. Luckily, I don't seem to have any lasting issues. Anyway, I've not really been a fan of the TP, though I now prefer them to touchpads when working on customer's computers at work (I work at a warranty laptop repair center near college) because it's easier to use when the computer in question is up on shelf, so you can't see the touchpad. I'm still unsure about their use on keyboards, though.
Yeah that's possible, but the beauty and usability of the three modifier across the top, and the hole there just looks made for it.I agree with you: it seems like a great idea to me, though as I said, I'm a little unsure about how it'll work out in practice, as I've not had any experience with using my thumbs on a keyboard like that.
Well I'm game for a couple either way, but the three would be awesome if anybody else likes the idea.
the hole there just looks made for it.
Hmm, adding jacks for extra switches/footpedals might also be a good idea.
First of all put me down for one with Cherry MX BluesThat one made me laugh this morning. You are ready to sacrifice an ergonomic aspect of the keyboard to save a few bucks but you are interested in cold feeling aluminum keycaps that would increase the cost A LOT.
But I have a few suggestions:
1. Make the keys a true matrix layout. You have lined up the keys vertically, but not horizontally. Kensis/TypeMatrix is a true matrix keyboard. By doing this you'll also be able to save cost as the casting would be smaller.
2. Move the 6 key back to the right side. All the good split mechanical keyboards have the 6 on the right side. Pushing the +/= key to the double size one is fine.
3. Use Kensis' layout of splitting the up/down left/right keys is probably the best thing to do. This way you can keep the {[]} keys together on the right side like Kensis
4. Investigate how much would it cost to also have anodized aluminium keycaps :D This way you can making it a selling feature that the entire keyboard is aluminium
So the theory goes with this 'board, is that -like the kinesis- it's not staggered vertically, so your fingers will only have to move up and down between rows (not the little bit side to side they do now).
I would say that the Kinesis Contoured is vertically staggered. Counting only on the home row, the offsets between index, middle and ring finger is very small, but the offset from the ring finger column to the little finger column is about 40% -- about as much as on flat vertically staggered keyboards.(http://www.ergocanada.com/products/keyboards/advantage_images/kinesis_orthogonal_keywell_609x390.jpg)
I stand corrected on the Kinesis. It is not a true matrix. The only one currently in production seems to be TypeMatrix. You cannot compare the Kinesis to this keyboard. This keyboard is flat while the Kinesis has key wells. That might explain why Kinesis did not do a true matrix.Firstly: don't lose heart! There are lots of POS boards (from Access-is, tipro, and cherry) that are "true-matrix" that you may be interested in. Typematrix isn't the only one.
both use USB cables (is this true for the modern kinesis?)
Like I said: I feel that the kinesis doesn't have a "true matrix" (good thing) because it tries to take into account the relative finger lengths. This one does, too (to some extent). Now, I haven't greatly studied ergonomics, but I feel like I'm at least on the right track here.
Interested, but need:
Soldering and shipping to Sweden.
300-
Due to unfavourable financial circumstances, if this does not come to somewhere around $150-200, im afraid i cant really be part of it.
If it helps, I don't care at all for an aluminum case. The main thing about this keyboard is the split and the ergonomics, not the case material. Plastic is fine by me. I don't even care about the color.
Just to clear a misconception about the case material. The same layered case in acrylic would cost around 20$ more by hand than the current aluminium one.
It's not the material that is expensive, it's the time to machine/cut the plates that is the main part of the cost.
How about 3D printing the case? Heck, with a layered case, it can even be a DIY cardboard affair at minimal cost!
Have you thought about broadening the audience a bit? Throw it on Kickstarter and get 100 people to pay $300. It couldn't hurt.I thought about it but with my current job, I don't have the time to manage something like this.
So... $220 for the plates/case. If we are ordering the switches as a whole, we'll get super-discount pricing from mouser (like $0.79/switch). What are we estimating on 25-50 PCB's: $50/hand? we could do single layer, with using the cutoffs from the diodes to make jumpers if that'll acceptibly bring the price down.The PCB will be double sided. 50$ per hand is a good guess. I pretty sure that machining stamping tools would cost a lot more than the current laser cutting.
Finally: WOW dox: that layer case will look awesome. I'd buy two if I could afford it. Have you looked into CNC'ing a tool for a stamping press? We could get them all manufactured in 5 minutes if we did that.
How about 3D printing the case? Heck, with a layered case, it can even be a DIY cardboard affair at minimal cost!It could be done but I'm not sure about the cost. I really don't think that it would reduce the price significantly. It can be done in cardboard as you said (and litster demonstrated) but I'm going with aluminium.
(Attachment) 36282[/ATTACH]I thought about it but the way the case is designed, there is not a lot of layer combination possible without having to machine the plates afterward (something I try to avoid to keep cost down).
Dox, one suggestion for your plates. If you can use thicker materials for the middle layers, then you don't have to cut as many plates, and that should lower the cost due to fewer layers to cut. You would likely still use thinner (1/16" or 1/8") plates for top and bottom layers.
Are you using all the same keycaps for all the rows since its a flat keyboard?
Let me answer this one: BECAUSE it's a flat keyboard, it should have normal keycaps (which have varying profiles) to give it a contour, just like 99% of the flat keyboards out there.This. But the keycap choice will be left to the users.
Just read though the whole thread and I'm in if its less than $400 and ready constructed!I ordered a few different connectors and cables a couple days ago to decide what is the best way to connect the 2 halves. I plan on having 2 short cables coming out from each halve that could be connected directly together or connected with an extra cable between them to give more separation.
How far can the 2 parts be separated because I'm thinking I can use this with a Wacom tablet in the centre?
So... $220 for the plates/case. If we are ordering the switches as a whole, we'll get super-discount pricing from mouser (like $0.79/switch). What are we estimating on 25-50 PCB's: $50/hand? we could do single layer, with using the cutoffs from the diodes to make jumpers if that'll acceptibly bring the price down.
Finally: WOW dox: that layer case will look awesome. I'd buy two if I could afford it. Have you looked into CNC'ing a tool for a stamping press? We could get them all manufactured in 5 minutes if we did that.
As for switches, I highly recommend people joining the switch group buy over at DT. We currently have a price of 0.60$ per switch. That includes reds and clears! Im getting my switches for the dox there.
Btw, not sure if it's been mentioned or whether it's feasible but I was wondering if we could have a detachable usb cable instead of the built-in one (like the HHKB). That way, it'll be much easier to replace faulty cables and/or use extensions.
Sweet design, i'd buy if it was 200-300.Sure, I'll add you to the list.
The teensy has a mini-b USB port on the shortest side of it anyway. If you wanted it hardwired, you'd have to mod it. Given the shape of the keyboard and the likely placement of the teensy board, it doesn't look like the port will be external to the device. This means the cable is easily replaceable by popping it open but not "detachable" on the fly.Yeah, I looked through the images, and that's what it looks like. I think on mine, I'd make (or buy) a mini-USB cable to plug into the teensy, and come out of the case, about a few inches (like in the concept art) then plug it into a normal extension cable for length. I want this to be portable.
As for switches, I highly recommend people joining the switch group buy over at DT. We currently have a price of 0.60$ per switch. That includes reds and clears! Im getting my switches for the dox there.Hah! It's 7bit's phantom order, also on GH!
Dox, what kind of shop does this have to go through to get the plates cut? I have a few contacts in a couple different machine shops that might be able to get a deal on if that's the kind of service you need. I'd be happy to at least look into it for you, but I don't know what to tell them to get an accurate quote. Thanks.The plates just need to be cut with a plasma cutter or something similar with high accuracy. I was planning to do the threading and the bolt countersunk myself to reduce the cost. I can send you a DWG file for the plates required for 1 hand later today. That way, you should be able to get an accurate quote.
Hmm, some excellent ideas: are you an engineer?1: I personally don't like this placement.
1. nice teensy location next to the thumb. I much prefer it that way, though I'm not sure if DOX would want to completely redesign his.
2. The programming LED is great. Having a programming mode is cool, but having an LED so you know when you're in it is great. Hmm, Another idea is to have a row of LED's somewhere that light up if you're in another shifted layer (for example, hitting capslock shifts to all caps mode. Hitting fn+shift might move it to mousekeys mode, etc. Having lights available to the user to indicate this would be great. Like one lights up when fn is pressed (or if you have a way to "lock" the mode) and another would light up when altgraph is pressed, etc.
3. So you'd join them with a rainbow cable? Wouldn't you be concerned that it'd break, or pull out? I imagine you'd have feet on the keyboard, so that the excess cable can go under the keyboard. Hmm, you could use beefy connectors like the ones that were used in then (unrelated) project:
http://www.amb.org/forum/a-delta1-hat-trick-of-sorts-t776.html
I'll throw out some ideas for connecting two halves together that I researched for my own split project, generally from easiest to hardest, less awesome to more awesome, and obviously less time intensive to "wtf this is taking forever" :p
- Use two controllers, that are separately programmed, with separate USB cables.
- Use one controller, with one usb cable, and bring the matrix over from the other half via some cable (ideally commonly and cheaply available).
- Use two controllers, that are separately programmed, with separate USB cables, and small cable (RJ11 or such) interconnect using SPI (or similar protocol) between the controllers. This allows for things like mod keys on one half affecting the keys on the other half like in 2, but with flexibility of using the halves individually if so desired.
- Use two controllers, each of which picks up its key layout from a single shared memory location. Each half also has a USB2 hub; the controller interconnect is a USB3 cable going into the hub of the other half, with the SPI traffic of step 3 happening over the extra unused wires of the cable.
I'll throw out some ideas for connecting two halves together that I researched for my own split project, generally from easiest to hardest, less awesome to more awesome, and obviously less time intensive to "wtf this is taking forever" :p
1. Use two controllers, that are separately programmed, with separate USB cables.
2. Use one controller, with one usb cable, and bring the matrix over from the other half via some cable (ideally commonly and cheaply available).Needs a relatively large interconnect. (25-pin RS232 is the only common cable I can think of, other than plain ribbon.)
3. Use two controllers, that are separately programmed, with separate USB cables, and small cable (RJ11 or such) interconnect using SPI (or similar protocol) between the controllers. This allows for things like mod keys on one half affecting the keys on the other half like in 2, but with flexibility of using the halves individually if so desired.
Needs a relatively large interconnect. (25-pin RS232 is the only common cable I can think of, other than plain ribbon.)
Single fiber optic cable FTW !
Hmm, some excellent ideas: are you an engineer?
1. nice teensy location next to the thumb. I much prefer it that way, though I'm not sure if DOX would want to completely redesign his.
2. The programming LED is great. Having a programming mode is cool, but having an LED so you know when you're in it is great. Hmm, Another idea is to have a row of LED's somewhere that light up if you're in another shifted layer (for example, hitting capslock shifts to all caps mode. Hitting fn+shift might move it to mousekeys mode, etc. Having lights available to the user to indicate this would be great. Like one lights up when fn is pressed (or if you have a way to "lock" the mode) and another would light up when altgraph is pressed, etc.That's a good idea, however, if you do touch typing that's irrelevant, i just use them for "debuging purposes" and for backwards compatibility with PC 104 keys.
3. So you'd join them with a rainbow cable? Wouldn't you be concerned that it'd break, or pull out? I imagine you'd have feet on the keyboard, so that the excess cable can go under the keyboard. Hmm, you could use beefy connectors like the ones that were used in then (unrelated) project:
http://www.amb.org/forum/a-delta1-hat-trick-of-sorts-t776.html
I like the HDMI cable idea a lot! I will order a few connectors and check the possibilities.
Here (http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1746679-1/A35075-ND/1246897) is one of the few TH ones, but it's with a panel mount (meh). Haven't yet been able to find others (that are purchasable), so it's all SMD otherwise.
EDIT: Also, what about wireless? Or am I just nuts. Like one receiver (USB) both halves connect to it. Or, the left half connects to the right half wireless, and the right half is USB to the computer.
3: There is no place for those beefy connectors and there is no place for a retractable cable in the case.
It is not fair
Spambot, he made an identical post in another thread. Reported!
I don't think there are any off-the-shelf parts that would let you power the remote unit over fiber.
Looks to me like a normal USB, but with the rubber taken off (or just not put on). I'll check mouser.
Dox, what is that cable connecting to the Teensy? Do you have a link to where I can buy one? I like it that it doesn't have the rubber arond the connector. Thanks.
Looks to me like a normal USB, but with the rubber taken off (or just not put on). I'll check mouser.
---
Forget mouser: here's some digikey:
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/UX40A-MB-5P/H2958-ND/597534
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/UX40-MB-5P/H2955-ND/597531
If an IDC connector fits, that's great. Ribbon cables are ugly, and need to be crimped to length with an appropriate tool (or a hammer..), but can be sleeved during that process to look better-ish. Labor intensive, obviously.
Of course, if something like a DB15 or DB25 fit height-wise, that makes it even more heavy-duty, as those cables are actually better for external applications unlike ribbon cables which are easier to damage. Height is about 0.5" from the PCB for either connector. Cables are fairly common (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10215&cs_id=1021501&p_id=542&seq=1&format=2) for either one (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10212&cs_id=1021201&p_id=1583&seq=1&format=2).
I won't get into a debate (which it isn't really as Dox has the last word) which one makes more sense in practical or theoretical terms, especially since I'm still on the fence about getting this board :p
Wow, 18 pages, 268 posts, this project is becoming the next mini-guru, hopefully with a positive outcome !
BTW, I still think HDMI is worth a try, with cheap cables easily found in any length from 1.5ft and up, it's very attractive.
I won't get into a debate (which it isn't really as Dox has the last word) which one makes more sense in practical or theoretical terms, especially since I'm still on the fence about getting this board :pAdded :p
Added :pSomething between 13 and 20
Hmm, you're right about ribbon cables. I'll dig through the amphenol section of my mouser catalog and see what I may see. How many conductors were we after?
Micro-D connectors would work great, except the connectors are $arm and cables are $leg :(well put! Made me laugh.
Wonder if there's a dual cat5 block that has the retention tabs on opposite sides. Easy single hand grip to remove would be nice.You mean like sideways? I've only seen upside up and upside down.
You mean like sideways? I've only seen upside up and upside down.
RJ45 jacks are even taller than DB15 connector, unfortunately, so I don't think they'd work. There's really not much out there that's readily accessible and meets our needs :/Yeah, as you said, RJ45 are even taller than DB15 so there is no chance these will fit in the case.
Okay, seriously, what's wrong with wireless? :)
Nothings wrong with wireless, except I think it's been mentioned and it's rather cost prohibitive since you'll need a total of at least 3 'units'. 1: the receiver on the PC end, 2: left hand board transmitter, 3: right hand board transmitter. And that's only if you can find a tech that enables you to use 2 transmitters on 1 receiver and process both signals at the same time. Maybe ZigBee or something similar, but other than names I don't know too much about it.
Then of course you need a controller in each board to give the transmitter something to send, and then a controller on the receiver end to tell the PC what was sent. ouch, that's a lot of electronic gizmos.
Woohoo! Vote for me often.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25737-The-OFFICIAL-2012-Troll-Poll!
Okay, seriously, what's wrong with wireless? :)
Haven't read the entire thread, but I'm interested... as long as it comes with its own keys. I don't mind soldering on the switches though if that lowers the price.
I'll add you, though getting keys for it should be pretty easy via WASD, and the A-Z keyboard area can be taken from any cherry MX.
If you don't have anything constructive to add, I would ask you not to post here.
Thanks in advance!
First constructive post in ten pages, look what I found:Wow, that looks pretty good! I looked on their order page, and I only see evaluation boards. I don't know where we can get the chips, and the company might want us to order 1,000 of them.
http://www.sprintek.com/products/SK5100.aspx
Might even be useful for colemak and dvorak conversions, etc.
This keyboard looks very interesting, sort of like a splittable TrulyErgonomic (or split flat Maltron) with thumb keys similar to a Kinesis, sweet! As a Colemak and Kinesis user for about 4 years, and having tried a TrulyErgonomic and liking it but missing the thumb keys, this keyboard looks right up my alley.I don't know how distribution will go, you may have to order two as a "leap of faith", or there may be more available (like what ragnarock does with his keycaps). I'll put you down for 1-2 if that's okay.
I could afford $400, would prefer no soldering, and would require international shipping. Reprogrammability in firmware is a must, as far as I can see this is a given (excellent, because I'd like to make a few adjustments: number row shifted one to the left, arrow keys and second Enter key on the left hand, and command/option/ctrl on the thumb(s), like my current layout (http://homepage.mac.com/boli/ars/80329_kinesis_colemak_small.png)). It would have to work properly with OS X.
If I'd like it I'd soon need a second one, too, but I won't order 2 right off the bat without having tried it or someone I trust try and review one.
Hiya!I'll add you!
Totally new here, and this caught my eye. Cannot help but *covet* this lovely keyboard. Nice work! I've had the Kinesis Classic and Advantage for over 10 years now, and as much as I love it, this keyboard just looks a whole lot sexier! Sign me up if you can make it for around $300! Thanks!
First constructive post in ten pages, look what I found:
http://www.sprintek.com/products/SK5100.aspx
Might even be useful for colemak and dvorak conversions, etc.
Wow, that looks pretty good! I looked on their order page, and I only see evaluation boards. I don't know where we can get the chips, and the company might want us to order 1,000 of them.
Hmm, the SK7190 integrates a pointing stick controller too.. The chips look fairly low BOM, though I see no mention of key rollover/diode support.
Hmm, the SK7190 integrates a pointing stick controller too.. The chips look fairly low BOM, though I see no mention of key rollover/diode support.
I want to be on the list. 400 $ would be okay if that includes everything. (Except assembly.)
The SK7190 is a pointing stick controller only, no keyboard controller.
BTW, N-key roll over support is explicitely mentioned with the SK5102 chip: http://www.sprintek.com/products/SK5102.aspx
Are you interested in assembly, too? I'll add you after work.
Sorry, I'm confused about the thumb keys in the latest design, at the front page I see two ideas. Are there two thumbers or six? If two then I have to regretfully bow out. Thanks -As far as I know, the latest design has more than two thumbswitches. I believe the two-switch one was proposed at the beginning, and reworked into the kinesis-like grouping.
(and BTW, yes for sure no bluetooth! I've had too many problems with it, I want absolute connectivity in a keyboard)
I'm interested in this and would like to be added to the list. I've not assembled something like this before, but that part sounds almost as fun as having this design actualized! I suppose i'm conditional on the price being at or under 400. Time to start saving I guess! =)Haha! That's the spirit, I'll add you presently.
Hmm, as I look at it again, I think the "wave" is too much. Especially as you curve your fingers to type the lower row (ZXCVB) having to put the ring and middle finger more forward than the others feels unnatural.
The split is essential, since people come in different sizes! As for the wave, I'm not against it, but I think it should be more subtle.
Maybe, OTOH everybody's hands meet in the middle too, as they do for all primates. I'm trying to understand if the split is a ergonomic feature, and why people think so. Not saying it isn't, just looking for the evidence.
Maybe, OTOH everybody's hands meet in the middle too, as they do for all primates. I'm trying to understand if the split is a ergonomic feature, and why people think so. Not saying it isn't, just looking for the evidence.
I want one too!
This seems to be my "ideal" kb design. I was looking for a mix between Kinesis Advantage/Maltron 2D, and Kinesis Countoured - this looks like it!
I also think the Advantage/Maltron 2D designs should have symmetrical 3-modifier key layout and would be EXCELLENT with a well-placed touchpad!
I was going to put my next best hope in the Truly Ergonomic - but it's not even available! Your DOX looks even better. Hope it's available soon.
One more thing - I thought it would be good to have an area below the keys to rest your palms. Don't know if that's been discussed here yet.
I have a Kinesis and my biggest complaint is the moved += button. I see you have moved it as well as other keys.
I'll put my money where my mouth is and create my own "ideal" keyboard.
Added :)
That's a good point: like the kinesis has the palmrests, etc. I still feel that the design should account for that ,but not have them inherent, that way one can make or add one's own to suit one's tastes.
Added :)
So you are interested too? I'll add you anyway.
If rests are desired then these (http://www.amazon.com/3M-Leatherette-Antimicrobial-Protection-WR305LE/dp/B0016OV5MQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1326714496&sr=8-3) should work fine, one on each hand tucked in right in front of the keyboard.
Halved keyboards however, allow you to dynamically alter your ergonomic situation on a whim.
Truly Ergonomic, for example (looks like they did a good job with that - but I've only seen pictures). But I know this might be asking too much from Dox.
Do you think they should be added to the bottom of the casing to ease in creating or adapting a tent or chair-mount setup?
For my own long-slow split project, I'm planning on using ball joints — specifically repurposed camera flash mounts, which are cheap and easy to get — at the back edge of the units. This wouldn't work as-is on the ErgoDox case (can't tap a hole in the layered edge) but something similar might.
(Attachment) 37764[/ATTACH]
I would be in for one with Cherry browns if it's completely assembled at least up to the caps.Added
Me too !I already have you (as #08), but were you also wanting the building service?
I would be in for one with Cherry browns if it's completely assembled at least up to the caps.
In many ergonomic guides a negative slope of the keyboard is propose to minimize wrist bending. Negative slope--meaning that the keyboard angles downward so that the side closest to your body is higher than the side away from your body. The side picture in the first post shows a positive slope.
Hey dox, can you tell me the measurement of the staggering ? ie: how much farther "north" is the W row is than the Q row, E row, etcI can't speak for Dox, but I imagine it'd be like other matrix boards: where the spacing left/right is the same as up/down. If this is the case, then it'd be 0.75 inches between keys, and would work with any 1x cherry mx compatible keycap (see, if it's less than that, the keycaps would hit eachother, and if it's more, you'd have to move your fingers a lot more)
hello
i want one of this, but what about switches and diodes ?
The group buy for the Phantom keyboard and switches is ending and i think i'll order some as the prices are nice.
Ah good to know about the diodes. Here, an amazon seller sells them for 1 cent each, so you can get 100 for $1 + $4.49 shipping = $5.49
http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-1N4148-Logic-Diode/dp/B0002KRC7C
lolwut @ Technical Details :D
Precision machined 6 cut RCA connector with split center pinIt IS parts express (sell expensive components for audio). I think they just accidentally pasted it in there.
Available in versions to fit three different ranges of TV sizes
Where's this interest list being kept? I just want to make sure I'm on it.
Thanks
Hah, thanks. Can't believe I missed that.I had you down as #49
It seems that the forum has rolled back a bit and my interest post was lost. I am still interested. Is there any way for people with interest to contribute in any way?I have you and Salash down on the list. I'll update the second post. good thing I keep a backup on my laptop :p
I know we're still looking for a decent connector between the halves (the bulky 3m Ribbon cable one I found looks good, but I'm thinking ribbon cables aren't ideal. HDMI has been suggested, but I really hate appropriating it to this use (It's "wrong", surface mount, dubious strain relief available, etc)), and other ideas have been proposed)You could make each half a stand-alone keyboard. One half could also contain a USB hub for linking up the pair, so you only need one USB cable going to the host (PC, etc.)
You could make each half a stand-alone keyboard. One half could also contain a USB hub for linking up the pair, so you only need one USB cable going to the host (PC, etc.)
This might even let you mirror image the PCB.No: there are some practical reasons we can't mirror it: first off the switches wouldn't fit. (they are asymmetrical).
You can still mirror it if you provision an extra solderable hole for each switch, which shouldn't increase the cost at all.
Also, as far as the connector we should pick something that is easily available and doesn't cause a hassle to be replaced. Couldn't a nice braided USB cable suffice?
My vote still goes for HDMI, due to enough conductors, small size, and very cheap & easy to find cables of varying lengths.
I'm concerned about the surface mount (much less mechanically sound compared with through-hole) and the apparent lack of decent panel mount options for them.
You'd only owe them a licensing fee if you implemented HDMI on the port. I'm wondering if some sadist wants to try implementing 1 half with shift registers and using serial over a small cable using RJ45s or the like.
SPI (4 wires) or I2C (2 wires) would only need an RJ11, but I think that even RJ11 is too high to fit. And yeah, implementing that type of protocol would be quite a substantial amount of work :(
Or use an I²C I/O expander (e.g. 23017 (http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/MCP23017-E%2FSP/MCP23017-E%2FSP-ND/894272)) to get down to 4 conductors, and use 2.5mm audio (http://search.digikey.com/ca/en/products/SJ1-42515TS/CP1-42515TS-ND/659902) connectors. Cheap, compact, and through-hole.
Got any idea of a ballpack price for this thing?
The most I could possibly pay for this board would be 200 O_O even though it looks pretty amazingAssembled? I imaging that's doable at the current rate for self-assembly, labor would probably add $50 - $100.
@dorkvader/dox: If the price can stay below $400 for *everything* (except assembly), I'm definitely interested. If it can stay below $300, I'd like one. If below $150-200, I think I might want two.. lol, or at least an extra case+PCB. Assuming it can get done in the next few months so I can get it together and get used to it before school, and of course that no future design decisions make it not work for me (which I don't expect to be the case). Created an account just so I could track this thread :) .
A few of the things that matter to me:
- The thumbs having a good amount of keys within easy reach (as in the current kinesis looking thumb group)
- The cord between the two being cheap, easy to get, and *small* (as is being discussed). I've never tried, but it seems to me that anything thicker / less flexible than a typical usb cord would be a pain when the two halves of the keyboard were close together on a desk. And aesthetically, a ribbon cable connector or even an ethernet connector (or a pair of them), would ruin it IMO. 2x2.5mm audio connectors (like kps suggested) would be pretty cool, if there's nothing better in a single similarly sized and shaped cable.
A few of the things that don't matter to me:
- Assembly service. If it's going to be done by another member, and/or going to cost more than maybe $20, I may as well take the opportunity to learn :)
- Layout. I'm planning to change it all anyway.
- Whether the parts all come in the same box, or whether we have to get them from different places. As long as they're not way too hard to find/buy, and the total price can stay below my above limits.
Random preferences (if they make a difference here):
- I'm leaning towards cherry browns, after a bunch of reading. I haven't found a place to try them, but they sound like what I want.
- Colored or clear keycaps. I know these would be extra... but if they turn out not to be too much more, it'd be really cool.
- O-rings (the soft ones), probably. I assume these would be extra too.
- For layout, I'll probably do something close to arensito, at least with the AltGr symbol layer.
Other thoughts:
- I'd prefer it not to be red. Lol, though I guess I'd live if it were.
- Once it gets closer to being done, if I'm not the only one here who's a noob at all things hardware, maybe someone could post links to save us searching around for all the parts we'll have to get ourselves, how to put it together (or at least common pitfalls), how to reprogram/reflash the firmware for remapping (and other things?), and all that? I understand it's DIY so I shan't complain, but it'd save me a bit of tangential effort.
Parts: I imagine there'll be a good BOM made up, where We'll distribute the plate/case and PCB, then have a link to where you can buy the rest. You could conceivably have it ordered in a few minutes, Still, if we're distributing the plates/case already, it might be a better idea to distribute the other components at the same time, for possible savings in bulk.
Keycaps: I never imagined keycaps to come with the base kit. Many GH'ers have extra sets, and they're pretty easy to get (WASDkeyboards, anyone?) elsewhere. I also really want clear keycaps to go over my cherry greens in the mail.
As far as colour, we might be able to work something out with the Machine shop to get it anodized different colours. Ofcourse it would be pretty easy to paint it yourself.
Finally: You should look at the phantom guide on the DT WIKI. This is almost the same project (only with the different physical aspect, integrated case, and possible complication of cables/connectors) and there's a lot of good info there. I imagine when it comes time, We'll update it with some ergoDOX specifics. I've always wanted to write up a proper manual in LaTeX for download/distribution.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom_Instruction
Hmm, that's a nice approach. SDA, SCL, Power, and Ground over the 4 conductors?
Would still need a willing sap^H^H^H volunteer to create some sample code, and breadboard test it with a small matrix, I suppose.
I wish the ErgoDox will be 6KRO for maximum compatibility with any computer / OS. When I see NKRO over USB I run, run away from it; to me it's a useless feature and so I prefer the USB standard to avoid any possibility of issues with the various OSs I use. I lived with 2KRO just fine for years, and 6KRO is even better, and six plus modifiers is really more simultaneous keys than I will ever need.
@parak/kps: You guys make it sound so hard. The Teensy library documentation[1] makes it sound easy. Which makes me feel naive, lol. What am I missing? The only problem (if it is one) that I can see is that this might only give us 6KRO without a lot of work.
( Some relevant stuff i found, just to put it here. Sorry if everyone already knows:
- NKRO is possible with USB, but not common: geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=USB+versus+PS+2#Full+NKRO
- Phantom firmware. I thought it was NKRO, but the post says it's 6KRO, so I'd have to read/learn more to figure it out: geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:26742
)
[1] pjrc.com/teensy/td_keyboard.html (with something to handle I²C) in C, or pjrc.com/teensy/td_keyboard.html and pjrc.com/teensy/td_libs_Wire.html in what looks like C++
((sorry for the links, i can't post real ones yet))
EDIT:
Don't mean to clog the thread with dev stuff. Please let me know if there's another place I should put it.
Should I come up with a "roadmap" of stuff that needs to get done? I figure, if I do that, then people can tackle each bit, and we'd get more done faster. Like we could get the CAD files, and some people can talk to local machine shops. We can get someone working on implementing i2c as communication between the halves. We can get someone looking for solutions for the connector problem (either an easy cable for I2C or a larger one for passing the matrix) etc. Then we can have a list of design decisions to be made (fer example, number and placement of thumb keys, etc.)
If I do give it a shot, which Teensy and which I2C IO expander should I use?
I do wonder about the 2.5mm jack though. The datasheet (http://products.cui.com/getPDF.aspx?fileID=7757) has a couple of types, both switched and unswitched. The consideration here is to make sure that insertion and removal of a plug while the teensy is on and providing voltage won't damage the I2C extender, though I'm probably overthinking it and the nonswitched one (CP1-42514-ND) will be fine.Yeah, I'm not sure about that either, though I'm just a programmer with a screwdriver. Personally I would use a mini-DIN connector (with at least 5 pins, and SPI rather than I²C), but connector size seems to be a major concern here.
Having tried a Datadesk smartboard as well as a Kinesis Advantage (I also own a Goldtouch and a Microsoft natural0 I am firmly against any splay. Columns should be completely parallel and keys should be close together to minimize unnecessary hand/finger movement.Trust the sordna!
I like the layout and would definitely would pay $50 for a PCB. The case isn't worth hundreds of dollars to me. I would rather just glue it down to a piece of plywood and save the money for the substantial amount that switches and keycaps will cost. Is the plate necessary or will the PC hold the switches securely?I'll put you down for PCB interest. It seems you're going key64-style on the case? Not a bad decision. You can even DIY it in acrylic relatively cheaply, and easily enough to be worthwhile.
Hehe, subtle is nice. Hmm, I still think with just a 1-2mm adjustment we can fit another thumbkey:
(Attachment) 42252[/ATTACH]
Tell me what you think!
put me on the list for one please.
Metal case please. :D The $400ish price tag isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned, but only if it takes at least another 2 months or so. Dorkvader, could you put me on your interest list? I'll be in for one if it's not much more expensive than $400.I'll add you both to the file and update later.
Yeah, I'm willing to pay for a metal case, but I think $280 for plastic is just too much.
I would be interested in make a purchase depending on final price/material.
I'ld also be interented in helping out with the Firmware development and hardware selection. Can anyone point me to the individual "In Charge" of this.
I would be interested in make a purchase depending on final price/material.
I'ld also be interented in helping out with the Firmware development and hardware selection. Can anyone point me to the individual "In Charge" of this.
I think it'd be awesome if we got some collaboration going on this project.
After thinking about it, I think metal is the way to go, and steel may well be better than aluminium. I'm thinking that the heavier metal will have a larger normal force on the desk, and therefore more friction and less slipping. Also, I really like items with heft!
I'm thinking either a clearcoated or stainless steel, or matte black/red would look the best, but that's all small stuff compared with firmware, etc.
I think it'd be awesome if we got some collaboration going on this project.
After thinking about it, I think metal is the way to go, and steel may well be better than aluminium. I'm thinking that the heavier metal will have a larger normal force on the desk, and therefore more friction and less slipping. Also, I really like items with heft!
I think it'd be awesome if we got some collaboration going on this project.
After thinking about it, I think metal is the way to go, and steel may well be better than aluminium. I'm thinking that the heavier metal will have a larger normal force on the desk, and therefore more friction and less slipping. Also, I really like items with heft!
I'm thinking either a clearcoated or stainless steel, or matte black/red would look the best, but that's all small stuff compared with firmware, etc.
If Y'all want to point me in the direction of some good firmware on teensy/atmel hardware, I'd be interested in looking at your development. I've got no experievce, so it's dubious as to how much I could help out.
I would recommend to stay with aluminum. Price/kg is about $5 and then ofc comes cutting and machining.
I might be able to help with machining for free in return of one of these. But giving no guarantees.
Yes please! :D
I was hoping you'd see this project and take interest in it.
Those who think 280$ is too much for a plastic case from shapeways.....
I got a quote from http://www.firstcut.com/
(Attachment) 43936[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 43937[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 43938[/ATTACH]
Maybe Swede could do better.
I would be happy to provide any help with this. But again I will not guarantee anything.
This all weighs on me having time to do the programming and getting approval from my school. And both are far from certain.
Also shipping from Sweden is expensive as hell.
Switches would be harder to get if they were pcb mounted
It's perfectly good to use plate mount switches, especially for a prototype.
That is a bit of a YMMV. For example, all of my switch donor boards are PCB mounted POS boards, so it's far easier and cheaper for me to come up with PCB mount switches than plate mount. Note that both can be plate mounted, it'd just be up to the PCB board designer if they can account for the extra holes. Of course, the extra legs on PCB mount switches can be cut off, but that's not really an option for me as I need them to be reusable for my own projects :)
It's a little harder to find brand new pcb mx blues from donor boards, and a little less hard for browns. Not to mention, I'm not even sure they have pcb reds.
Kinesis uses PCB reds with pins AND diodes (MX1A-L1DW) in their LF model. They sell a pack of 15 for $15.
? I'm saying I am against pcb mounted switches.
Ok, I should have expressed that more precisely.
It's perfectly fine to use plate mount switches where there is supposed to be PCB mounted ones, especially for a prototype.
There is no big difference between PCB and plate mounted switches. The only thig is that there are two extra plastic pins to orient the PCB mounted switches better. This means that it is completely possible to use plate mounted switches instead where there is supposed to be PCB mounted ones. It only takes some more care to make sure the switches are soldered in straight.
I was wondering, why connect both halves together and only one hand to USB. Wouldn't it be more flexible to give both halves their own processor and USB cable? That way you could even decide to use only one half for single-handed typing.
You could even incorporate a USB hub in the back, so you can daisy-chain the keyboard and plug in your mouse as well.
I don't really think the switch modules were designed with keycap pulling in mind.. The pegs (I guess this is a less confusing word than pin in this case) could possibly contribute to mechanical stability under normal usage as well though. But I still think the main design goal is to make sure the switches are mounted straight. Using the specified diameter for the lead holes, there is quite enough rotational play to allow for messed up functionality.
I dream about a keyboard like this.
Only con is price.
If it gets below $ 200 I would consider buying it.
This was discussed earlier in the thread, and is rather complicated to implement. For one, the two halves still need to connect to each other in some way because certain key functionality doesn't pass from one usb keyboard to another. In addition, there needs to be specific firmware logic that is then able to treat the two separate controllers and matrices as one in some way, considering the key map assignments in dual and standalone modes and such.
If you're willing to consider them truly separate keyboards when connecting them separately, it might be practical. But DOX specifically said he'd use at most 1 Teensy and 1 I/O expander.This.
This.
I got some HDMI connectors today to do some prototyping. Those pins tiny! 0.5mm pitch. Anyone know the best way to solder those with a standard soldering iron?
(Attachment) 45211[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 45212[/ATTACH]
A really fine tip with fine guage wire lol. I could do that with my 12 watt soldering iron, doubt you can do it with a radio shack iron.Alternatively, you can just flood over all the pins with a bunch of solder bridges, then suck off the excess with (normally) some copper braid.
Alternatively, you can just flood over all the pins with a bunch of solder bridges, then suck off the excess with (normally) some copper braid.
Those are surface mount, right? Will there be PCB support for if I want to -say- get some through-hole ones?
I have done the right hand PCB layout. I'll add the option for PCB mounted switch as well as diodes inside the switch.
(Attachment) 45248[/ATTACH]
....Quote from: Dox;553042I have done the right hand PCB layout. I'll add the option for PCB mounted switch as well as diodes inside the switch.How about you make the PCB accommodate cherry switches that include the diodes? (and for folks not using switches with diodes, they can still surface-solder diodes at the same soldering points. Shouldn't be hard to make the PCB take DW switches (with pins, with diodes).
(Attachment) 45248[/ATTACH]
I got some HDMI connectors today to do some prototyping. [...]
Alternatively, you can just flood over all the pins with a bunch of solder bridges, then suck off the excess with (normally) some copper braid.
Those are surface mount, right? Will there be PCB support for if I want to -say- get some through-hole ones?
After a few tries you get the amount of solder correct. After that it is a smooth experience (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t06malVew40) =)
Got I2C working the other day! And spring break's coming up, so I'm hoping (God willing) to have at the very least some beta quality firmware done by the end of next week. I'll post my documentation and code when I get it working. Sorry it's taken so long, but thanks for being patient :) .Great! I'll wait for your documentation!
G'damn these things are small. I ordered a bunch of 0402 components for using when reconstructing the Teensy directly on the main board. Time to do some practice I think, buying a finer tipped soldering iron, and finding someone willing to borrow me a stereo loupe perhaps...Man, thee things are sooo tiny, you should have gone with some 0603 or 0805.
[video=youtube;66GV4OuShzI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66GV4OuShzI[/video]
I've been interested in making something along these lines for a while, and I've done a quick mock up based on Dox's design. Mine will largely be sheetmetal based as that is the tools I have access to, so I'm looking at having the keys plate mounted and having the left and right keyboard mounted on a chair. As far as curvature goes that isn't really much of a problem for me as I can do that pretty easily, but I've been having trouble trying to determine the best direction for curvature and the dimensions.Interesting, are you going to use a curved PCB or just and wire it?
Also what have you used to draw the model and where have you sourced the switch models?
(Attachment) 47545[/ATTACH]
Tin both pads, hold the 0402 down to the board with tweezers hit 1 pad with the soldering iron briefly. Check to see if the other pad got sufficiently heated to be properly soldered. Sometimes it happens. Then finish it out.
Man, thee things are sooo tiny, you should have gone with some 0603 or 0805.
Tin both pads, hold the 0402 down to the board with tweezers hit 1 pad with the soldering iron briefly. Check to see if the other pad got sufficiently heated to be properly soldered. Sometimes it happens. Then finish it out.
As far as curvature goes that isn't really much of a problem for me as I can do that pretty easily, but I've been having trouble trying to determine the best direction for curvature and the dimensions. (Attachment) 47545[/ATTACH]It is not that easy. The edges of each switch hole have to be straight and parallel or the switches will not fit properly.
QuinRiva: that's a good looking keywell. If we could get kinesis-like keywells on this project, it would be amazing!
Couple of manufactureing difficulties:
1. it would be significantly harder to make. I imagine the only cost-effective way to get that shape would be to stamp it
2. It raises the question on how to make a "base" for it. I wolud be fine with what is shown in your image, having an "open" keyboard like that, but if there needs to be some sort of case made, I imagine it would be difficult
3. Making a PCB for that would be difficult, involving either multiple PCBs with connectors, or some sort of shaped/curved/flexible PCB
Nevertheless, the design is good, and all the issues aren't insurmountable. I imagine one could solder it point-to-point without too much difficulty. I don't know what it'd be to stamp them, though.
Right, I was about to say the same thing as Sordna, just a little different. If you want keywells, buy Kinesis keywells and make the rest of the case. Kinesis keywells are plastic but that shouldn't be a problem because there are keys on top of it so you can't see it anyway. :)
Apart from that I would say, if you're going for keywells make sure they're different from the Kinesis it would be much more interesting.
Personally I am very much looking forward to the flat version as well.
I'm sure there has to be low profile enough sockets... a lot of phones/headsets seem to have pretty compact sockets on them.
Can't the PCB have a cutaway so that the socket has more room up and down? Of course the socket should be secured by the case, not by the PCB (you would need some flexible leads between socket and PCB).No, those sockets need to be soldered/fixed on the PCB and even if I was doing that, the distance from the interior bottom to the top of the case is 16mm (13mm usable for a connector) it's still not enough.
I still like the 3.5mm (or 2.5mm) TRRS best, especially aesthetically - as long as it's possible to make it safe from shorting Vcc and any of the other 3. It looks like the size limitations are going to keep things small enough for my taste whatever gets decided on though :) .
If using 2 sockets is an option, have you looked at any of those small coaxial power connectors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector)?
Or something simple like a small 4 pin molex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molex_connector)? (Actually, I used to think this connector would be too big and not very pretty, but now I'm starting to think it might look cool...)
sordna: If you want a curly phone cable anyway, you could always cut the connectors off one and solder some others in their place. I've been sort of planning on making my own cable if I can, just to get the size and such just right.
I can't seem to find a pcb mounted 4 contact TRRS 3.5 or 2.5mm. I have to continue searching.
I can't seem to find a pcb mounted 4 contact TRRS 3.5 or 2.5mm. I have to continue searching.
Avoiding to short the Vcc is easy, just put the power on the contact that is the furthest outside of the case.
Compiling C: lib-other/pjrc/usb_keyboard/usb_keyboard.c
avr-gcc -c -mmcu=atmega32u4 -I. -gdwarf-2 -DF_CPU=16000000UL -Os -funsigned-char -funsigned-
bitfields -ffunction-sections -fpack-struct -fshort-enums -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Wa,-adhlns=./li
b-other/pjrc/usb_keyboard/usb_keyboard.lst -I. -std=gnu99 -MMD -MP -MF .dep/usb_keyboard.o.d lib-oth
er/pjrc/usb_keyboard/usb_keyboard.c -o lib-other/pjrc/usb_keyboard/usb_keyboard.o
Linking: firmware.elf
avr-gcc -mmcu=atmega32u4 -I. -gdwarf-2 -DF_CPU=16000000UL -Os -funsigned-char -funsigned-bit
fields -ffunction-sections -fpack-struct -fshort-enums -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Wa,-adhlns=lib-oth
er/pjrc/usb_keyboard/usb_keyboard.o -I. -std=gnu99 -MMD -MP -MF .dep/firmware.elf.d lib-other/pjrc/u
sb_keyboard/usb_keyboard.o --output firmware.elf -Wl,-Map=firmware.map,--cref -Wl,--relax -Wl,--gc-s
ections -lm
c:/winavr-20100110/bin/../lib/gcc/avr/4.3.3/../../../../avr/lib/avr5/crtm32u4.o:(.init9+0x0): undefi
ned reference to `main'
MAKE[1]: *** [firmware.elf] Error 1
MAKE[1]: Leaving directory `C:/Users/Dox/GIT/benblazak-ergodox-firmware-201e38c/src'
MAKE: *** [all] Error 2
You could probably use threaded 3.5mm connectors for extra connection strength.
Last edited by Dox; 27 Dec 2011 at 17:15.
Damn this is gonna be expensive ;( and also I don't like the shapeways idea.
Did you considered to make this projects more public so that you can find maybe company's who are willing to buy in larger scales or even sponsors?
I would buy a metal version for up to 200$ ... but this would be a miracle if this could be happen.
Pls update the first post if something changes in the design or the price since this is the first information that a informed person will get.
Damn this is gonna be expensive ;( and also I don't like the shapeways idea.As I mentioned on deskthority the case parts of the blue split keyboard would cost around 50€ or even less if optimized for it. which I find rather cheap - but for that flat design a custom PCB would also work, true. But then there would still be no case around it.
I'm sorry for the rant.
If that was a rant I think your blood sugar must be low, or perhaps you're on some depressant?There was a lot of editing...
Did you mean 6KRO or full NKRO?
I'll take a look at the layouts over the weekend if that's okay.
If anyone has some good ideas about how on-keyboard remapping could work though, I'd be interested to hear them; if only because it's a problem I couldn't think of an elegant solution to.
What do you think about the Kinesis way (http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/tech_support/remapping.htm)?
[...] you always move all characters from a key, that is unshifted and shifted. [...]
Personally I like this approach a lot, it's very easy and requires no software. No matter which OS I boot into, I always have the layout I want.
Would the controller be able to handle mouse movements?
[...] it's not possible in the firmware right now, but I think PJRC has some code that would work, so hopefully it won't be way too hard. [...]
Interested. Please put me down dork!Updated the list!
Ok, here is the new case. There is still no trackpoint.
(Attachment) 36215[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 36214[/ATTACH]
2 set of 11 plates (including the mounting plate) per hand. The plates are symmetric for the second hand. I still need to do something to give it some angle/mounting option.
To give you an idea, for 10 set of 11 plates (5 keyboards) not anodized, the cost would be around 110$ per hand (plates only).
Fossala: We're still trying to price things out. The last price update I remember was in december 2011:
Now, I imagine the cost will be somewhat lower, as the quantity will likely be an order of magnitude higher. From what I've read on machine shop prices, it might not be that much lower, though.
So if the case is $200 total, the PCB will likely come in under $100. Switches are ~$0.8*76=$60 (unless you're harvesting them from somewhere, or already bought them from 7bit), teensy is ~$18 (I think?). I don't know what the connecting cable, connectors and that signalling chip is, but I feel like it's under $30 all told.
So all in all, maybe about $400 without keycaps.
The best savings will be in the PCB. Lots of PCB fabs will get you a much better deal in quantities of 50+, which we should have. No idea about getting the case cheaper, though.
Will the keyboard have F# keys? I just noticed there are none on the rendered pics:
I'm interested in one of these! I should have a bit of keyboard soldering experience under my belt by the time this gets produced.I'll add you to the list!
This seems very steep. Hopefully the target price will be reached which will also include keycaps. $400 for an assembled board sans-caps, IMO, might be out of reach for many of us. I suppose only time will tell. If you guys are looking for volunteers related to working with the Keyboard mapping software I suppose I would be down. Seems like it could be an interesting experience.I'm hoping we can get it down under $300, as a lot of people say they're committed up to that point.
Cheers,
Will the keyboard have F# keys? I just noticed there are none on the rendered pics:Well, since it's programmable, all the keys are dedicated F keys, if you want. I imagine though that there's not a huge amount of need, especially considering the prospect of layers. You can have a dedicated "function" key to turn all the regular number keys into function keys. I imagine if you use them a lot, you can even convert some of the modifiers on the side into function keys (as I imagine I'll have more modifiers near the thumb area.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36215)
I don't really see a need for dedicated f-keys. I'd prefer to have to do it similar to the poker where you hold FN+"appropriate number" to get your f-key.
Well, since it's programmable, all the keys are dedicated F keys, if you want. I imagine though that there's not a huge amount of need, especially considering the prospect of layers. You can have a dedicated "function" key to turn all the regular number keys into function keys. I imagine if you use them a lot, you can even convert some of the modifiers on the side into function keys (as I imagine I'll have more modifiers near the thumb area.
How do you press F12 on the Poker? (used to move optical media tray in/out on Macs) :Pfn+"=/+"
Is this project still in flight? Is it Dox's project or a GH community endeavor?
I've been working ~70h a week in the last few weeks so I didn't had much time to put on this.This is why we love you, Dox. You are super busy, and still dedicated.
I have a 3 day weekend and I don't have anything planned so I want to finish the pcb layout and order it as soon as possible.
Wow, that's a good PCB, DOX!Thanks, these are 2 sided. The red traces are on the top layer of the PCB.
I especially like the profusion of mounting holes. We sholud have no trouble with flex.
Are they one-sided PCB's with a lot of jumpers, or does the red denote traces on the second layer?
Nice one, Dox! My eyes started to follow the traces - it wasn't long before I got lost.Thanks, it's quite hard to follow from the picture, especially with the ground planes.
Can u buy me a PCB set please :) I can't wait for a final kit!FYI, the prototype PCBs cost me ~300$ for 2 sets. Prices will be much lower with bigger quantity but I ordered the minimum qty just to test everything.
that's awesome, DOX!Thanks! Your firmware highly facilitate the tracing. I don't know if I have followed your intended matrix as I went for the simplest way to trace it with the assigned pins. There will probably be some remapping needed in the firmware. No big deal.
Will the PCBs be available a la carte?Yes, when everything will be ready and tested!
Nom, I'm with dirge on this! Can I buy a PCB? :DI don't think a lot of people would want to pay 150$ for a set of PCB that are not even tested yet.
Yes, when everything will be ready and tested!
Looking good, DOX! Good to see all the diode placement options. I just recently soldered SMD diodes to my KMAC. It wasn't hard at all. Just need steady hands.Thanks lister! I decided to put the SMD as it wasn't much more work and it's good to have options. I'll probably go for the trough hole ones on the first prototype as I have a few hundreds of them but I may try the SMD on the final or the second prototype PCB.
Kinesis sells individual switches?
Dox I'm loving this, get pics of those boards the moment they arrive! And I'm sure the boards would have been a bit cheaper if we'd thrown money at you for prototypes ;)
Kinesis sells individual switches?
Are those plated through-holes?
sordna, do you know how much they charge for the switches?
Pictures!
(Attachment) 51436[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 51437[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 51434[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 51435[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 51432[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 51433[/ATTACH]
(Attachment) 51438[/ATTACH]
One small problem. I have installed the diodes the same way I have done for the DoxKB but the scanning in inverted in IC07 firmware so nothing registers for the moment. I tested with a jumper and everything seem to work fine otherwise. I'll try to invert the scanning in the firmware as the diodes are a PITA to desolder in the small plated
The TRRS cable works like a charm! A HDMI cable would have been way too bulky.
Does it have no soldermask?No soldermask as it's a "prototype". The final version will have a soldermask.
Wow, that picture of it loaded up with switches, with the LED's on looks amazing! I want to convert it to ascii-art, type it up on the typewriter (I have no printer at the moment) and put it on the wall!
Now that you have the switches on a board, what do you think about the key placement? How does it feel?
So cool! Oh, can you please make sure the firmware is such that cherry switches with built-in diodes work? That's what should dictate the orientation...The way I placed the diodes on the PCB is the same orientation as the built-in diodes. So the firmware should be revised to follow this.
The way I placed the diodes on the PCB is the same orientation as the built-in diodes. So the firmware should be revised to follow this.
I quibble with your use of the word quip.QC'd.
One minor gripe: I would've preferred the Teensy to be on the left side. That way, I could run just the left half for gaming. :evil:I agree with both statements.
But nonetheless, that is just hot s***.
Oh grr, it should. I'll do that then. Might not be able to get to it for a few days though. Sorry to be busy now that things are getting so exciting, lol. I'll make time as soon as I can!No problems, I'll wait for your revised firmware. Yes, we want the rows input with pull-up. Thanks again for doing this!
So what we want (since the MCP23018 is open drain) is to have the columns hi-Z (off) / drive low (on), and the rows input with pull-up?
Dox, I don't know anything about electronics, but I noticed the right hand side has a diode per switch, but the left side hasn't... I'm curious - could you tell me why, please?There are diodes on both side for every switches. The left side diodes are just hidden behind the switches in the picture.
PS - looks really sweet!
One minor gripe: I would've preferred the Teensy to be on the left side. That way, I could run just the left half for gaming. :evil:The good thing is that you can move the halves as you wish. Just place the right hand away and place the left hand beside your mouse.
But nonetheless, that is just hot s***.
Don't know if it's possible to fit the two options in the PCB, but if yes, could you allow for the 2x thumb keys be mountable POS style as an alternative?I don't know why you would want to do this. 2 switches for 1 key = double the activation force. Not something that I would want. And the keys that fits that placement are standard keys with centered stems and standard stabilizers.
I don't know why you would want to do this. 2 switches for 1 key = double the activation force. Not something that I would want. And the keys that fits that placement are standard keys with centered stems and standard stabilizers.
Because it would allow for choosing to divide the keys into two 1x keys if desired. Never mind though, just a thought.Yeah, It could be possible, I'll see what I can do but the case/plate will only support the 2 unit keys.
Yeah, It could be possible, I'll see what I can do but the case/plate will only support the 2 unit keys.
# Documentation : Keyboard Matrix
## Matrix [row##column] assignments
* row and column numbers are in hex
* coordinates without brackets are unused
* left and right hands are mostly the same except that `row += 6` for the left
....... rows x columns = positions; assigned, unassigned .......
....... per hand: 6 x 7 = 42; 38, 4 .......
....... total: 12 x 7 = 84; 76, 8 .......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[B6][B5][B4][B3][B2][B1][B0] [50][51][52][53][54][55][56]
[A6][A5][A4][A3][A2][A1][A0] [40][41][42][43][44][45][46]
[96][95][94][93][92][91] 90 30 [31][32][33][34][35][36]
[86][85][84][83][82][81][80] [20][21][22][23][24][25][26]
[76][75][74][73][72] 71 70 10 11 [12][13][14][15][16]
[64] 66 06 [04]
[63] [60] [00] [03]
[65][62][61] [01][02][05]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 2012 Ben Blazak <benblazak.dev@gmail.com>
Released under The MIT License (MIT) (see "license.md")
Project located at <https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware>
◕ ‿ ◕DAT FACE!
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22780-Interest-Check-Custom-split-ergo-keyboard&p=428524&viewfull=1#post428524
I HATE being misquoted by a moderator!
Dork, please fix.
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/split-ergonomic-keyboard-project-t1753.html?hilit=Dox
Depending on final product I will take 1-3 of them. Can't commit 100% until I know the final product and price. Looks like a great keyboard.
If I can afford it as a student, I will buy one. It looks awesome, and I'd love to have one. Keep up the good work!
I am interested in one of these as well! Please with less Tab Keys though! :D
This really does feel like it's on the cusp! However we haven't seen anything on the case yet, so I would expect at least another month before final touches are made. Excellent, excellent work Dox!I'm working on the case right now. I will order a prototype from shapeways soon (1-2 week).
Cheers,
DAT FACE!
how much are the pcbs at medium quantity? i'd be interested in assembling a few pcbs for people over the next couple of months while case designs are finalized. imo i think it's a good idea to have some pcbs percolating and being beta tested for code development and as an opportunity to make changes to the pcb before a large quantity run
btw, raw or plated pcbs can be just placed on top of soft surfaces to be used/tested, or placed into prototyped cases of various materials ;)
I'll add you all to the list presently. When I saw the tab keys I thought: How many cherry keyboards does DOX have?Haha I don't even have 1 functional cherry keyboard except my DoxKBs. The tab keys are from the SP grab bag. I'm trying to figure what are the best profile for the vertical 1.5 keys. I think the tab is working quite well.
Edit: Keep in mind that a keyset is not planned (yet) so it's up to you DIYers to come up with keycaps. Nevertheless, I believe WASDkeyboards may be a good source if a GB ever occurs. I'd get a blank keyset for obvious reasons :p
Would be interesting to get a hold of some PCB mounted MX switch bottom housing with integrated diode. That's all I really want/need since I've got plenty of switches on the way already.
You have to jump through hoops to not get plated holes when you use kicad.
I've had all sorts of strange behavior with floating pins on ICs
This type of design on a keyboard is has always been what I wanted. Esp. when reclined Vertically. I wonder if we can add that, or just let the users do this. Also, would it not be easier to do the case in a type of hard acrylic (PMMA) by submersion into casts that are vertically assigned in some sort of silicon or rubber?I think the sky and your wallet are the limits when it comes to case design and optional features.
I'll draw the idea in a few days, but basically it is a mold of the cases vertically aligned in a rubber/silica/foam cube with slits of these molds. Kinda like how cd cases are made. If you get it then I won't draw.
Also, the think I like about the size if the fact that we can abuse the Keyboard space to install an MCC or SD port to make it even boot. hehehe, we can even bootstrap a gumstix board to boot Linux with video, sound, wifi, and everything (http://gumstix.org/software-development/pre-built-images.html). God, How I love this era.
For now, lets concentrate on making this truly programmable KB. I wonder if we should do it from the keyboard, or flash the memory from an the computer? Still using the USB as power to flash the memory.
Tell me your Ideas, I know C, I can help in logic, but I do not know the advance stuff like Hex algorithms on the processor. I'd hate to use some proprietary with little documentation. I think I read this was going to be teensy, am I right? And really, I think we should not care about the BIOS compatibility. Everyone by now should have bought flashed ROMs with Phoenix Award BIOS or better yet coreboot. If you are a buyer, and say Nay, please do so.
Also, what encoding wille we use, UTF-8 or one of the latins?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Latin_character_sets_(computing)
I ask to see what I can do for output. I guess I need to read USB in a nutshell.
Also I work full time, so my contributions will be limited. I can offer a wiki if you like. Need to experiment with yawk.
PS
Behold this beauty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lexus_LF-A_Crystallised_Wind.jpg
And is functionality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maylan-interior-design-neue-wiener-werkstaette-interlux-roehm-_evonik-_indeustries-contemporary-light-art-sedan-chair-seats-manfred-kielnhofer-illumination-auchtion.jpg
SUSE Linux or The Attachmate Group was not part of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ted_Noten_Grandma's_Bag_Revisited_2009.jpg
If so, what encoding do you all vote? UTF 8‽ (I ask, cause there is a lot of symbols not needed in utf8⁂ lots)※
※If you can't read these, it means you are not using UTF8, and probably do not need them.
Hi guys, I'm new of GH, I found this thread looking for keyboards...and I think this project is awesome!Hello and welcome to GH! I'll add you to the list. There's been a lot of pricing discussion, but nothing is set in stone yet. It all depends on what sort of volume pricing we can get. This is just a guess, but we should be able to get the PCB under $100, and the case maybe under $200. I haven't asked around for quotes yet, though.
I wasn't able to read 43 of the 46 pages of this thread (sorry), so I'm bluntly asking: do you have an idea about when you'll be able to actually sell/ship this fantastic keyboard? And for which price approximately?
As someone previously pointed out, I also think keycaps are not mandatory...I mean, buying keycaps is not a problem as long as the keys are Cherry MX, am I wrong?
Thank you for your work.
Fede
// JTAG disable for PORT F. write JTD bit twice within four cycles.
MCUCR |= (1<<JTD);
MCUCR |= (1<<JTD);
>alaricljsStill unsure of what you're talking about. The scancode for each key is completely customizable at the hardware level by you, the end user.
Yes, but most of the scancodes are standardized HEX Interruption values that the OS decide in your favorite encoding. Most of the scan codes conform with the ISO/IEC 9995 standard. That Is why ask if you like to have another to minimize/optimize in the software overhead that UTF8 is.
Dox and ic07, Great progress so far! and very inspired.
About ghost key problem I have some words to say.
If you use port F you might want to check JTAGEN fuse bit and JTD bit of MCUCR. This JTAG configuration can prevent from operation of port F. Default fuse bit setting of Teensy makes JTAGEN fuse unprogrammed, so you won't have this program, though, I think you still should check this to make sure. See datasheet for detail.
I'd like to recommend you try this code in init function:Code: [Select]// JTAG disable for PORT F. write JTD bit twice within four cycles.
MCUCR |= (1<<JTD);
MCUCR |= (1<<JTD);
And another one, you may want to add small delay between port setting and reading port while matrix scanning. I think you can have delay in _update_rows() in teensy-2-0.c. _delay_us(1 or 5) will be enough for this.
If you don't have this delay you might have a false reading of port.
Though I'm not sure theory behind this :)
static inline void _update_rows( bool matrix[KB_ROWS][KB_COLUMNS], uint8_t column ) {
_delay_us(1);
matrix[0][column] = ! teensypin_read(ROW_0);
matrix[1][column] = ! teensypin_read(ROW_1);
matrix[2][column] = ! teensypin_read(ROW_2);
matrix[3][column] = ! teensypin_read(ROW_3);
matrix[4][column] = ! teensypin_read(ROW_4);
matrix[5][column] = ! teensypin_read(ROW_5);
}
Also, remapping at this point is only possible by modifying the firmware, recompiling, and re-flashing. Good news is, I don't think this will be too hard for anyone here, especially once I get around to writing a short howto. On keyboard remapping is being considered (but only once everything else is done). The rest is up to the OS.
I wonder how easy it would be to write up a quick frontend for changing layouts? Even if it just gave you a quick graphic of what you have, then output the proper source to flash the chip with, it'd be useful (to visual people like me)
I wonder how easy it would be to write up a quick frontend for changing layouts? Even if it just gave you a quick graphic of what you have, then output the proper source to flash the chip with, it'd be useful (to visual people like me)
.progmem.data 0x000000ac 0x348 keyboard/ergodox/layout/qwerty.o
0x000002a4 _kb_layout_release
0x00000154 _kb_layout_press
0x000000ac _kb_layoutFrom firmware.hex:Also,Post 17 here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17374-My-keyboard-project). Thanks to calavera.
DOX, do you have a larger version of your avatar? I plan on using it for the About menu on the GUI, as well as making a .ico to use for the launcher. (Assuming you guys don't mind me writing up a front-end.)
Cheers,
:_kb_layout{lf}
ababababababababababababababab{lf}
:_kb_layout_press{lf}
111111121111113111111411111{lf}
:_kb_layout_release{lf}
111111121111113111111411111{lf}where ab is a byte represented in ascii, 1 2 3 and 4 are press, release, layer increment and layer decrement and {lf} is a linefeed character (0x0a in the table)ic07, I think there is a bug with the fn layer. I used the prototype all day at work and sometimes, the fn layer becomes inaccessible after some use.
I looked at the logic again last night, and it still looks right to me... Do you have any ideas? Or at least, in laborious detail, what exactly's happening (maybe this calls for a PM) lol :) . Sorry you have to help debugging stuff I wrote, but I can't think of a way to test it myself... :/ . If *any* keys are registering, those should be working too... I suppose, worst case, I can try to start rewriting the thing next week.
ic07,
It would be helpful if we can keep changes to the backend to a minimum (outside of bug fixes like this), since effh & I will be relying on consistency there to create a usable GUI. Though we'll be hacking the compiled hex directly, it would be nice to be able to know that recompilation we do will give us consistent results. I am having a hard time following what's going on in main.c, in the innermost for loop. Where do you specify a switching between layers?
Cheers,
I am having a hard time following what's going on in main.c, in the innermost for loop. Where do you specify a switching between layers?
follow up: main.c is missing an include in the repo:. Can you add that?
ic07, Make any changes you need/want to make, just keep the layout in a nice sensible array/set of arrays in "progmem". (I need to look up the details of that sometime : )
I'm interested in learning how to do some keymap-making or key layout changing. Is there some sort of documentation on how to do this:
I'm interested in
function layer (s)
Mouse buttons
Hitting both shifts activates capslock
Y'know, things like that. Are there any resources you can share?
I might come up with some proposed keymaps for people.
I'm interested in learning how to do some keymap-making or key layout changing. Is there some sort of documentation on how to do this:
Mouse buttons won't be a part of the software as far as I know. I am not sure how the Teensy would handle this, seems to me it would almost have to register as two pieces of hardware to achieve.
As far as we know, at the very least 2 layers will be available to the end users. A default and function layer.
Not yet, unless you're comfortable with C and have time for a bit of reading. I can post links to the relevant files again if you like. But since OrangeJewce and effh are going to make a GUI, I'd recommend waiting for that. I'm sure it'll be more fun to use, in any case :) .
- Function layers are being debugged. Once done, I'm sure the GUI will make them easy to work with.
- Mouse buttons are in progress, but depend on my eventual comprehension of certain things about USB... I'm trying!
- Hitting both shifts to activate capslock is a good idea. I'll see what I can do after layers work right. It /shouldn't/ be too hard.
It will basically be pretending to be two devices, if I succeed in implementing it. It's not an uncommon thing though - IIRC, several custom firmwares around geekhack have this feature (hasu's included) - I just need to figure out how to do it myself.
Would more be useful? I did the math just now, and I think there's room in flash for ~60 layers... lol. And having extra allocated won't hurt. How many do you think would be good?
One thing about layers that I am afraid many might be missing is that the harware "layers" is not the full story. The keyboard still only sends a combination of keys. There are no actual functions associated wit what the keys do in the OS. That is all up to the OS to decide. If i want for example my '1'-key to be the '&'-key on another layer that will not be the same as defining say 'SHIFT'+'1' as '&', it will not be the shift layer. That layer would be a shifted layer where the '7'-key on a layer with 'SHIFT' activated. Since it is the OS that usually handles layers it is a bit backwards to do it in the firmware. There are of course workarounds.
On the Kinesis you can remap any key to do whatever any other key does. For example the switch the location of '1' and '&', and also program macro keys. The way I understand that they handle this is by defining every keypress as a keycode along with the modifier keys used for that particular key. That is every key is defined as a tuple of keycodes that are used simultaneously. If the '1'-key is set to be a '&'-key, the keyboard woll briefly send 'SHIFT'+'7' when the '1'-key is pressed. This works, but is a lot more tedious than I think everyone here is aware of =)
This is not the full story either... say I want a layer on my keyboard where the 'A'-key is an 'α'-key (alpha), Alpha is not even in the OS keymapping, no combination of keypresses will be able to produce it.
All this may be possible to solve installing other drivers or something, but that I know nothing about, and also that wouldn't be very pretty at all...
We choose to alter the microcontroller because it's easier to do, and it works. Otherwise we'd need to craft OS specific drivers (not likely to happen).
My understanding is the Kinesis allows on the fly hardware mapping outside of the OS. Afaik, has no handle in how the keymap is stored, altered, or saved with regards to the onboard memory of the Kinesis' microcontroller. My guess is its memory is addressable and maybe they use some form of pointer system (pure speculation), and so you can shift around the addressing of the keys directly. Unfortunately for us to implement a feature similar to this would most likely consume much of the available memory on our controller and severely limit the number of layers, with limited additional benefit over a UI.
Also it may or may not take more development time than we currently have, but I defer to ic07 on this issue, since he's doing all the low level work.
My point still stands. There are more and less unsolvable layout issues working with the keyboard side alone.
What do you guys think - can this be a good replacement for a Kinesis?I've not tried a TE, but I see this as a better version of that.
And is there an ETA for the "final" prototype (including the case)?
I am deliberating getting either the Ergo Dox or the Kinesis; I can't afford both. :(
The resale value of the ergodox is likely to be close to the final price.
If you buy the Kinesis first, you will probably miss out on the ergodox. If you buy the ergodox, you'll have the option of the Kinesis later.
Good point; my impression was that the resale price of the Kinesis is reaaaally bad. Neither here nor on deskthority are people particulary interested in those. And eBay is even worse. Last Kinesis went for 25% of its original price. :(
I guess I don't understand then exactly what your point is, so I apologize. The design decision was made to work from the keyboard end to ensure compatibility with any OS, because that would mean doing a single implementation as opposed to many. There are always going to be pros and cons to any design decision.
If you would like to draft up drivers for Windows or any of the other OSes we'd be more than happy to see what it is you come up with. The more the merrier :thumb:.
Cheers,
I thought on the windows side people were pretty happy with what Autohotkey can do?It's not ideal: not easily portable, does not work with certain programs.
It's not ideal: not easily portable, does not work with certain programs.
Good point; my impression was that the resale price of the Kinesis is reaaaally bad. Neither here nor on deskthority are people particulary interested in those. And eBay is even worse. Last Kinesis went for 25% of its original price. :(
An option you might want to look into is having layer lock key combos. This way you could hit Fn-1 (or something similar) and it would switch to the 'qwerty' layer as the default until another layer lock is used. This way a user could have several alternate layouts like dvorak and colemak at a simple key combo press.
I think people would like at least 3, up to (I could imagine) 6
I'd say we should have support for 4 layers, to accommodate practitioners of NEO.
My understanding is the Kinesis allows on the fly hardware mapping outside of the OS.
...
Also it may or may not take more development time than we currently have, but I defer to ic07 on this issue, since he's doing all the low level work.
There is 1kB of EEPROM memory where the firmware can save settings from time to time. That is a lot of layouts.. Keycodes are only 1 byte, pointer probably the same. As Sordna said the Kinesis only supports swapping keys, not really remapping individual "characters". A key swapping function should be fairly straight forward to implement...
How are you looking to switch between layers?
From the keyboard's point of view, I mean. My QPAD changes the backlighting brightness by holding fn and pressing one of two other keys. Could also use some sort of 3-4 way DIP switch on the PCB.
My point is that keymappings on the OS side solves all but the portability issues.
It would be possible to implement Kinesis like remapping, but it involves tradeoffs that, the more I think about them, the less I want to make them. A complete layer (keycode + two function pointers for a 12x7 matrix, function pointers being 16 bit) is 420 bytes, which means the EEPROM could actually only hold two. We could limit special functions from maps with that capability, and store only the keycodes in the EEPROM, or I could devise a method for only storing changed layout info there; or we could limit the number of layers to two. But I don't really like the idea of doing any of that for such an (IMO) limited gain in functionality. I'm open to reconsider though, if I find that there's really enough interest.
It doesn't though. Remapping any of the 'lock' keys, for instance, is hard to do OS side. But I understand what you're saying about limitations. Personally, I'm going to use both methods (OS remapping for Greek characters and OS functions, firmware for everything else).
Storing macros in the EEPROM sounds more interesting to me. I envision those as linked lists of (key, modifiers, next pointer)-triplets. Each list item would take 4 bytes if pointers are 2 bytes.
There is also a micro SD-card adapter (http://pjrc.com/store/sd_adaptor.html) for the Teensys. Imagine GBs of data... I had plans to use one as a keylogger on my own keyboard. I haven't been experimenting any with it, but there are adapters in my home built boards.Hmm, interesting! This would also guarantee I'd never be able to take it into work and use it, though. In a similar vein, are there any good programs (linux or windows) that track how many keystrokes you've done? Sort of a mouse odometer for the keyboard. Peel free to PM me so as not to get too far off topic if you must.
...Of course you are correct. Things the OS doesn't need to know about is best kept in the dark =) I should have said that "character mapping" problems are best solved on the OS side. Once again macros might be the solution I'm actually looking for. Do I want to type 'λ' or really just "\lambda"? =D...
Hmm, I hadn't been thinking about macros; and I would think those were easier to do in the OS (or.. I use gvim, so that's where mine are). Still interesting though, maybe I'll think about them again sometime when I'm not so tired :) . Would you prefer them in firmware? If so, why?...
Hmm, interesting! This would also guarantee I'd never be able to take it into work and use it, though. In a similar vein, are there any good programs (linux or windows) that track how many keystrokes you've done? Sort of a mouse odometer for the keyboard. Peel free to PM me so as not to get too far off topic if you must.
Also< I'd lay that macro-functionality would probably be pretty useful. I can imagine using it for a number of things.
I still disagree with Prins' assertion that the OS is better for handling character mappings than the KB when you're working with a non-standard layout, but it's a dead horse at this point.
I wish I had something intelligent to contribute to this thread.Registering your interest counts as an intelligent contribution.
Registering your interest counts as an intelligent contribution.
Very intelligent, in this case.
In that case, I would like to register my interest as well!
Speaking of, which time frame are we looking at at this point? A couple of months, a year ... ?
I wouldn't be able to afford in the next two or three months, but later in the year, I'd most likely have the finances to cover it.
I've been thinking, not sure whether this has been discussed previously, as I haven't followed the thread the whole way through, will we be able to use either side of the board independently of the other? I could see myself / others wanting to use it as a gaming pad, without having to necessarily have both sides on the desk.
No. Only the right side may be used independently of the other, or at least that is the way it is being designed right now. For the left side to be active, it must be connected to the right side via TRRS cable. The reason for this is that it was decided early on by Dox, I think, that only one controller would be used, which means that one of the halves had to be chosen as the 'host' half, so to speak.
Dox had suggested that the case prototype should be arriving shortly. I am not sure if there will be a second round of PCB prototypes (move thumb keys), after that there isn't really a huge amount of work left from the hardware side. I would say it is looking like it will be in the next 2-3 months as opposed to 6-8. Maybe Dox can chime in here.
Cheers,
I think would be possible to make both halves identical using the same PCB for both the left and right half. It looks to me like there would be enough room to fit both the Teensy as well as the other IC there on top. If the PCB was done this way it would be possible to choose to use any or both halves, and also which half the USB cable would be running to.
The controller parts from the Teensy can be bought elsewhere and surface mounted, this saves some space. The ATmega chips can be run on their internal 8MHz oscillator as well, cutting the number of required components down. I've been experimenting successfully with this today =) This requires reprogramming some fuse bits though, which in turn requires reloading the bootloader, both which requires a programmer unit... And the stock bootloader as well as the LUFA one are both 4kB.
This would really not change anything (other than the PCB layout). There could be separate USB controllers on either side, or one controller and a slave side (either side being the slave/master), or a single PCB could be used as a one handed keyboard of left or right hand type. This would also double the number of same design PCBs which may or may not have an impact on price. If there are huge amounts already this doesn't make too big a difference. The main problem is the possible need to use a serial programmer to set up the controller chips. This would likely have to be done by someone from here in bulk before shipping them out to people.I may have brought up having identical PCB's. The issue is that it still has to work with it "flipped". You could maybe do this with a lot of settable jumpers (like: Set to "A" for LH and "B" for RH). Also, Trace routing becomes difficult, and the cherry keyswitches are not symmetrical, so you'd need an extra hole per switch.
I'm of course more than willing to help out with what I know about chip programming, bootloaders, PCB design and all.
I don't think you need to do almost anything at all to get it to work flipped. But I just woke up and may not have thought this through all the way. Just mount the USB controller on one side and let the slave IC location be empty, And vise versa on the other side.
The switch is unidirectional by construction. They would be the only components needing to switch side. Through hole diodes are of course "flip symmetric" as as well (Internal diodes could still be used if they are mounted "backwards").
The flippable footprint should be no problem. Internal diode and LED holes also line up when it is flipped.
(Attachment) 52840[/ATTACH]
Otherwise, everything went well. With the thumb keys a bit closer, it will be perfect!
Quit being so negative.. geesh, and by the way
Looks like there may be a PCB redesign whether you like it or not.. It is pretty quick by the way. And I do think DOX had meant to do more work on the PCB as it was. Those prototypes don't look like a finished product at all...
I think that the thumb keys are a bit too far out. The 3 furthest keys are hard to reach and my thumb is a bit too stretched in the standard (thumb on space) position.
I will put them closer for the case prototype. I will cut the thumb from the PCB and hand wire it to test it.
Don't forget that with sufficient desk space and a properly sized cable you just put the left half where you want it and tuck the right half out of the way (or vice versa). If you choose to do your own case you could even devise a scheme to stand that half on edge so even less desk space is needed.
Or for an extra ~$25 and a little work, you could put a Teensy and a TRRS connector in an altoids can, and use that for the right hand side :) .Whoah, that's brilliant, I hadn't considered that.
I count 36 keyswitches per hand from the images DOX posted here:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22780-Interest-Check-Custom-split-ergo-keyboard&p=602321&viewfull=1#post602321
So that's 72 total, right?
Well, not I am certainly tempted to justs join that group buy. Which switches do you think would fit the ErgoDox best? I am thinking either linear MX Reds, or alternatively clicky MX Blues or MX Whites (I like their sound better).
Functionality: While I understand the choice for compactness and minimalistic design, I find the lack of Function keys a serious flaw. Before you jump on me, let me explain. To me, a keyboard geared at heavy PC users should focus on being ergonomic in all aspects, including minimizing the usage of a mouse or pointing device. I use Alt+ Control + Function key combination hundreds of time a day in all sorts of programs and can't imagine using a keyboard that doesn't have these. It would drastically slow me down. (Does everybody seriously use a mouse to close a program when Alt+F4 is within reach?)
While I certainly understand your need to cut back on using the mouse, your operating system (Windows of some flavour, I figure), is not really meant for that kind of work. But even so, if you use appropriate programs, you have don't have to have special functions keys.
I don't really understand what more keys you need on that keyboard. What's missing?
So you're saying change his entire workflow and the programs he uses in order to suit the keyboard? That's a bit silly.
I'm interested in this project because of the engineering involved, so my opinion is not one coming from a potential user... That said, I wouldn't buy a keyboard without F-keys. I've been pondering designing my own board and am sorely tempted to include a 2x5 set on the left (ala Sun type-5) to have more keys. This way I can have all the f-key combos for the programs I use and then all my own combos for other uses.
Depending on the price, I might be interested too. I'll see :s.
Save for a while! It's going to be an amazing board, and there may never be another run of them again! ;)
Cheers,
While I certainly understand your need to cut back on using the mouse, your operating system (Windows of some flavour, I figure), is not really meant for that kind of work.
...I don't think it's unruly to add a few keystrokes to switch to a different layer which, say, has remapped the numrow to f'n keys, and then when finished jump back to the base layer. I understand your hesitance about not having the F'n keys, and while custom layers may not be the perfect solution, it's a heck of a lot better than nothing. This board, tbh, is probably not the most ideal for a Windows user, but it can definitely work.
Windows, which is perfectly suited for cutting back on using the mouse. You'll find that you can operate practically all commonly used Window functions and programs with a huge number of shortcuts (and many of these use the Function keys). The majority of casual PC users doesn't know this and doesn't use them, but I believe many professionals in text entry/editing related jobs DO use these. By excluding Function keys, these potentials buyers are - maybe - lost.
Yes, obviously it can work, which is why I'm definitely interested, but - like I said - it will decrease efficiency.
Are there any numbers on which OS people who are interested are using? While I appreciate this keyboard may be intended/designed more for other OS, if (at any point) this project would turn more commercial, considering the needs of Window users may make the difference between success and failure. Just by sheer numbers of potential buyers.
Ah well, I'm guessing there's no chance in hell adding Function keys will be considered at this point... and I certainly don't want to sidetrack this initiative, so moving on!
I'm probably going to have function keys for the ones on the edges (and maybe the bottom). The "inside" two keys can be modifiers (for obvious reasons) you could also assign some of the keys near the thumbs to funciton keys.
To answer another one of your questions (I should add a FAQ: Good idea) It will likely be sold as a "parts kit" form, but several members, myself included, are willing to do the assembly, though I imagine most will want some money for their time. My goal would be to get as many of these ergoDOX's in the hands of people as possible.
OrangeJewce, thanks for your comments. Yes, I gathered that most users here were developers, and appreciate they have different needs. Don't mistake my comments for criticism; just offering a slightly different perspective from a different potential target group.
Yes, I can see that as an option. I will certainly try to 'work around' the missing f-keys. No need for an image; I can think of several solutions, such as positioning my X-keys (http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys/xk24.php) in between the two sections.
OK. Excellent. Completely agree with compensating members for their time and effort!
Windows, which is perfectly suited for cutting back on using the mouse. You'll find that you can operate practically all commonly used Window functions and programs with a huge number of shortcuts (and many of these use the Function keys). The majority of casual PC users doesn't know this and doesn't use them, but I believe many professionals in text entry/editing related jobs DO use these. By excluding Function keys, these potentials buyers are - maybe - lost.
Thanks for elaborating, OJ. Perfectly clear.
By the way, is stating my intention to buy enough or do I need to do something to be added to an 'official list'.
Just want to make sure I don't miss out...
Adding a "function modifier key", much like a shift or ctrl key that only momentarily turns on the function layer when pressed, shouldn't add to much discomfort using F keys. F keys on a regular keyboard are far enough away to lose home row anyways.
you can even use a switch lock for this key \o/
sorry, meant a mxlock swtch >>
so you don't need to hold the button down?
Without having looked to close on the code, I think it should be really simple adding a if(my-fun-layer-key is pressed) send function key; else send regular key; This should be possible to do on a higher level than the I/O communication between the keyboard halves. And on this higher level nothing is particularly tricky to do yourself.
There should probably be some way of accessing the function keys no matter what. Although I use them next to never myself, sometimes they are actually necessary.
Quote from: PrinsValium;617092Quote from: Djuzuh;617106Quote from: PrinsValium;617092Quote from: Djuzuh;617070
you can even use a switch lock for this key \o/
Why on earth would you want to do that?
sorry, meant a mxlock swtch >>
Why on earth would you want to do that?
so you don't need to hold the button down?
Yes, I can see that as an option. I will certainly try to 'work around' the missing f-keys. No need for an image; I can think of several solutions, such as positioning my X-keys (http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys/xk24.php) in between the two sections.
Without having looked to close on the code, I think it should be really simple adding a if(my-fun-layer-key is pressed) send function key; else send regular key; This should be possible to do on a higher level than the I/O communication between the keyboard halves. And on this higher level nothing is particularly tricky to do yourself.
There should probably be some way of accessing the function keys no matter what. Although I use them next to never myself, sometimes they are actually necessary.
For my day to day tasks I mainly use mutt and vim in a terminal multiplexer (tmux), Firefox with the Pentadactyl plugin, and PDF readers such as llpp or mupdf, where all of the mentioned programs have vim-like keybindings. My window manager (Xmonad) also has vim-like keybindings.
I am going to have too look closer on that code some day =)I believe if you implement it as a hit to change, hit again to change back type layer switch, the MXlock works perfectly. I'm pretty sure you can set up the access-IS keyboards this way(as well as momentary) (though they don't have lock switches)
Is the locking/non-locking layer keys implemented as two separate functionalities? I had an idea to make shift locking (or act as a caps lock toggle) if it was pressed just shortly, and behave regularly when held for a longer period of time. I never got around to implement that though (as with many other things..).
I *wish* I had a workflow like that, lol. Haven't had the patience to learn yet though... I currently use gvim, chrome, and thunderbird, mostly, in Ubuntu + Gnome.
Another option, if you think it's worth a dedicated key position on the home layer, would be to define a layer key that's also an alt key, so instead of pressing alt+fn#, you'd be pressing [alt,layer]+fn# - and the alt+number keys would stay the same. I'd probably be the one to add it to the firmware, but I think it'd be a fairly trivial addition if people thought it was worth having.
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QF6MD.png)
Minor update, still not satisfied with the look.
What's the recommended size (in px) for an icon like that?
For best results in Win 7 you should use 64x64 and either let it scale or also provide 32x32 and 16x16.Eh? I thought you should make a high res 256 x 256 icon, then provide an alternate icon for 32 x 32 / 16 x 16. The text on my mockup, for example, will cease to be very visible at 16 x 16.
Can't you make an SVG graphic? Can't Windows 7 handle that?Don't think so. Bitmaps or PNG, IIRC.
I am going to have too look closer on that code some day =)
Is the locking/non-locking layer keys implemented as two separate functionalities? I had an idea to make shift locking (or act as a caps lock toggle) if it was pressed just shortly, and behave regularly when held for a longer period of time. I never got around to implement that though (as with many other things..).
I strongly urge you not to do it. :D You are going to be entirely dependent on your very own setup, and you are going to _hate_ using anything but. Fun thing is that it sounds like a lot of work to learn that stuff, but in the end it's more for lazy people. ;-)
Yes, actually, adding that flexibility would be interesting: one would achieve an Alt+Function key press without increasing the number of keys to be pressed. Same for a Control+fn and Shift+fn.
[image]
Install:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YzU8U.png)Config:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mFtnJ.png)
These would be more usable at resolutions down to 32 x 32.
Dox: Did you use a font for your avatar, or is it custom?
Dox: Did you use a font for your avatar, or is it custom?A GH'er made it for him somewhere in the DOXkb topic.
...Dox: Did you use a font for your avatar, or is it custom?
A GH'er made it for him somewhere in the DOXkb topic.
---
Edit: I can't find it now. Maybe it wasn't in the DOXkb topic.
You guys mean this?Thanks Jewce! I want to use that font for any text titles, Arial just doesn't cut it IMO.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17374-My-keyboard-project&p=335210&viewfull=1#post335210
Cheers,
Are there any updates? I haven't really seen much on the github.
Cheers,
This thread is amazing keep up the great work! I am holding off a Kinesis Advantage for one of these babies!
Hi guys, I'm interested in it, if it's under US$300 (all assembled and ready to use) and if you ship it international.
Please keep me updated. Thanks ;)
Hi guys, I'm interested in it, if it's under US$300 (all assembled and ready to use) and if you ship it international.
Please keep me updated. Thanks ;)
Currently I don't think you'll be able to get it for that price, from DT it seemed like aluminum cases were going to be in the $200 range, and after PCBs you'd be sitting at around $250. Switches and Caps are going to come in at around another $100 (depending on type). Then add assembly and international shipping, and I don't see it going for less than $400 :'(. If you can get in on a printed plastic case it may push the cost down by $100, but I am not sure what the status is on that.
Cheers,
Hi guys, I'm interested in it, if it's under US$300 (all assembled and ready to use) and if you ship it international.
Please keep me updated. Thanks ;)
Currently I don't think you'll be able to get it for that price, from DT it seemed like aluminum cases were going to be in the $200 range, and after PCBs you'd be sitting at around $250. Switches and Caps are going to come in at around another $100 (depending on type). Then add assembly and international shipping, and I don't see it going for less than $400 :'(. If you can get in on a printed plastic case it may push the cost down by $100, but I am not sure what the status is on that.
Cheers,
Hm... If excluding shipping, it's $350 or below, please count me in. ;)
(Expects a shipping of $60)
Hi! I'm new to geekhack, but I'd like to register interest in this. I found the site at ergodox.org (based on a reference to it in my introduction thread here on geekhack), but it's a little bare. How do I go about getting one of these?
What it will all come down to is the case material. It seemed like, based on the DT discussions, DoX was going to offer only Aluminum in the official group buy, but I think The_Beast was investigating 3D printing options for plastic cases, which is where my reduced amount for cases came from.
Cheers,
So after reading through this thread (and the accompanying thread on deskthaurity), I think I've gleaned the following:
- The design of the device is all but set in stone at this point.
- Dox already has a prototype, has put it through the paces, and loves it.
- No official order has been placed yet, so most (if not all) others don't have one yet.
- At one point geekhack went down, and the deskthaurity spread started up in its absence.
- Price is looking to be over $400 at this point, bottom line.
Which site are people treating as the home for this now? GH was first, and appears to be back now, but it seems to be fairly stalled compared to the DT thread.
So after reading through this thread (and the accompanying thread on deskthaurity), I think I've gleaned the following:I forgot my DT Password, so I can't update then until I remember or reset it.
- The design of the device is all but set in stone at this point.
- Dox already has a prototype, has put it through the paces, and loves it.
- No official order has been placed yet, so most (if not all) others don't have one yet.
- At one point geekhack went down, and the deskthaurity spread started up in its absence.
- Price is looking to be over $400 at this point, bottom line.
Which site are people treating as the home for this now? GH was first, and appears to be back now, but it seems to be fairly stalled compared to the DT thread.
If interest is still high in this and progress is still being made, I'd be willing to buy one for about $500, assuming the price includes everything needed to get it working and a set of blank keycaps.
I've not read the whole 29 pages. Is there an option for Topre switches?
Making one for alps wouldn't be that difficult, but it would require a new pcb to be made.
Would that be related to a controller to work with the capacitive switches? Oh well. :( I anyway half expected all that and the switches too would be propriety and not for third party products.
Thanks for your reply :)
I'm in. No matter the cost.
For a split ergonomic keyboard with topre switches, there is the μTronAh, thanks, yes I saw that a little while ago together with a video and that board seemed to be 'wrong' in a couple or so ways, not least, the price, but I recall the slope and angle looked wrong, maybe had too few keys, either way, unlike docomoz above, alas or me price is a factor.
anyone interested in pooling together to print some ergodox cases?
bpiphany enlisted me as his beta tester.
The last remaining hurdle is the case
Why does deskthority get all the nice pictures (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/split-ergonomic-keyboard-project-t1753-480.html) ??
Copying couple of ic07's pics here, it looks sooooo nice
Prototypes are out in the field and are being beta-tested right now. The last remaining hurdle is the case, and even I still have no idea when we can expect that to be completed. You can always check out this thread on Deskthority for engineering related info.
The last remaining hurdle is the case
I'd beta test on a yoga mat case like ic07 if it meant getting this thing sooner. Function over form! Case important, but less important; not sure if I'm alone in this opinion though.
Also I'm in between contracts right now so I've got a bunch of time I could dump into this. And a nice camera to indulge forum readers! :)
yeah, without the case where is the 'ergo'?
Hah, I am one to disagree with you, because IMO it holds the greatest design and production challenge of the entire keyboard!
yeah, without the case where is the 'ergo'?
I haven't heard anything about this case being "ergo", so unless they can make it adjustable (which would be very difficult), it should be as flat and low profile as possible!
Nice to see some progress being made on this. Hopfully too many custom boards don't come out at once, sounds dumb but I don't want to have to pick between custom boards. I WANT THEM ALL ^___^
Nice to see some progress being made on this. Hopfully too many custom boards don't come out at once, sounds dumb but I don't want to have to pick between custom boards. I WANT THEM ALL ^___^
Honestly, the eDox is too unique compared to all the other custom boards. I think owning one really will make you special compared to the numerous custom TKLs.
Cheers,
I have added a built-in wrist rest. Also now I have a proper top layer thanks to DOX.Excellent!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QG4S3.png)
click the picture to see the larger version that is not weird :-)
I have added a built-in wrist rest.
I have added a built-in wrist rest.
I like the idea of a built-in wrist rest, but I'd be worried about disagreements stemming from details surrounding it (padding/firmness, surface texture, wrist rest dimensions for different hand sizes, etc), and potential setbacks surrounding the discussion. Is this just for the prototype that you've been testing or are you suggesting this for the full run of cases? Is there a plan for people who don't want it?
Now with wrist rest
Now with wrist rest:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0azLl.jpg)
And a view of the encased Teensy and other parts:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pCBXf.jpg)
I am so happy to have stumbled upon this marvelous project. Just knowing of its existence has relieved me of immense frustration. I've been fumbling with a recently bought Typematrix and scouring the internet for alternatives, cursing the cluelessness of industrial keyboard designs, until I almost at random landed on the key64 page. The moment I saw the design, I burst out in maniacal laughter; it was as if my every plea had been answered. Thanks to this thread, I now live with the hope of seeing these answers materialize under my running fingers. At last, I rest.
Anyway, I'm in for USD ~350. Accept Bitcoin for payment, and I'll send some delicious Danish beer on top.
what about having the wrist wrest area a separate piece and attach with neo magnets so you can snap it on and off.This is a good idea: I have about 20 of these from broken magsafe boards out of apple computers (Apple doesn't want the old magsafe 'boards back)
I posted this over at DT:
This is a great time for crowd funding to get the project moving forward, and fits perfectly with the working-prototype stage the project is at: PCBs/electronics basically done, case options coming together.
Discrete levels of funding through perks/rewards matches our varied interest here at DT and GH (just pcbs, pcbs+electronics, full kits, plastic vs metal case, etc). It also opens up the possibility to make a more attractive package by offering keycap sets, switches, and/or assembly. Having the closest we can to a complete keyboard will help attract more people outside of GH/DT, which is better for everyone's bottom line. It also takes care of the pre-order money issue as it's a large entity holding the funds.
Now, this all hinges on people getting behind the project, handling things like shipping logistics and communication. Since I just rolled into this project a couple weeks ago, I don't really know what roles people have stepped up to. If no one has done so already I'll start crunching some numbers to get a good idea of costs and target prices for something like indiegogo.
This looks like a great keyboard, and I'd like to help make it a reality.
Why was crowdsourcing ruled to be too costly up front? AFAIK, indiegogo would run the campaign and if it was successful, they would take their 4% cut and release the money to the organizers who could then make the purchases for everything in bulk and get those balls rolling.
We get 30-60 days to collect money and target a completed product/kit 2-4 months down the road from that. It seems like the optimal model for getting as much money up front to order at higher qty. It also creates a sense of legitimacy to mitigate people's aversion to handing over a few hundo to a GH/DT user before we have everything together. This legitimacy would also be much more attractive to people outside of this community, leading to higher qty.
Once that chunk of money is available, we can start placing orders for the PCBs, electronics, and/or switches and ship them out as kits earlier while the case designs and keycaps get sorted out. So it would benefit people like me, who are card-carrying members of PCBNAO.
This is definitely more work than a simple group buy would be. But the scope of the project and the costs involved might require something more than simple group buy organization.
QuoteHave you thought about broadening the audience a bit? Throw it on Kickstarter and get 100 people to pay $300. It couldn't hurt.I thought about it but with my current job, I don't have the time to manage something like this.
this thread is 31 pages long and the DT thread is 22. 53 pages of searching ain't worth it.
I would rather not have my money tied up for an extra 3-4 weeks while some others get PCBs earlier because that's all they want.
One thing to consider is this board is already expensive. 15% on top...
this thread is 31 pages long and the DT thread is 22. 53 pages of searching ain't worth it.
I'll take your word for it!I would rather not have my money tied up for an extra 3-4 weeks while some others get PCBs earlier because that's all they want.
Your money would only be held for an extra amount of time if the case designs were done and ready to order before the campaign was finished. It's not like anyone would sit around with the money while they twiddle their thumbs. When parts are ready to be ordered/manufactured, they should be. When parts come in to fulfill orders, the orders get shipped out. People getting their PCBs sooner doesn't make the complete kit come any later.
Is it just a lead time issue? You would only want to pay when the case design is finalized and you're only 2-3 weeks away from getting your parts instead of 6-8 weeks?One thing to consider is this board is already expensive. 15% on top...
Indiegogo takes 4%. Where is this 15% coming from? This is a moot point as MassDrop looks much much better for our needs here, but I have a different understanding than you of how it would have worked with indiegogo.
As far as the IP problems are concerned, ErgoDox is under the GPL so AFAIK, anyone could sell a version of it, but they might have to change the name. Having said that, I consider dox the owner of this project and wouldn't like to see anyone do a commercial run without his involvement or blessing.
Massdrop works really well for the kit buy logistics solution but really unnecessary for buying key caps from SP. Anyone have any ideas oh how to get a custom PBT set for these unique layouts?
A lot of my concerns were put to rest by bisl's firsthand account with talking to a Massdrop rep. I still don't know what their fee would be, and it would be interesting to know.
But through who? IMSTO? MOQ is 500...
Multiple members met with them IN PERSON. Including myself... Basically the deeper the discount they get you the better cut they get. Hopefully BD will weigh in on this buy soon.
Multiple members met with them IN PERSON. Including myself... Basically the deeper the discount they get you the better cut they get. Hopefully BD will weigh in on this buy soon.
So we have to hope that the prices start low? Seems like a strange business model to me, since allegedly they are passing that additional tier savings back to us? Since when is imsto's moq 500? I thought it was 100?
Cheers,
MOQ: 300 sets, currently at: 205 paid sets.
I've been following this project with great interest from almost the beginning and have been impressed with the contributions made by several people to make this thing happen. I've also been impressed by how long the process takes when it's all done by volunteers whose interest is divided by also having to make a living.
Would it help if someone was willing to put money up front to have the pcb's manufactured? It seems that there wouldn't be too great a risk to order 50 or so pairs of boards. At $40 per pair that would only be $2000. This would allow the less patient to get started sooner at volume buy pricing and I don't think it would hurt the other aspects of the development.
I could fund the initial order but have no knowledge or time to distribute the orders.
If this can help the process let me know.
The amount of interest in this keyboard makes me wonder if this thing can be taken beyond a group buy.
What's the difference between "1. Full Kit" and "6. Full kit + Cases + PCBs"? Is it about assembling?
What kind of case we are voting for atm: aluminium, acryllic, smth else? Or is it still TBD?
What's the difference between "1. Full Kit" and "6. Full kit + Cases + PCBs"? Is it about assembling?
What kind of case we are voting for atm: aluminium, acryllic, smth else? Or is it still TBD?
They've made a separate poll for the case type (http://www.massdrop.com/poll/ergo-dox-case). I don't believe this will be a winner-take-all thing, but rather just for them to gauge who wants what so they can shop the orders accordingly. I believe everyone is getting what they want in this case.
Does anyone know what could be the price difference between 3D-print vs acrylic case? At least some very rough numbers.
If the difference is actually not that big, then I would vote for 3D-printed with wrist support (which is currently missing in the poll) - personally don't like transparent cases.
3D-printed with wrist support (which is currently missing in the poll)
It's not a simple combination of features: the project started with case designs that had no wrist rests, and then Litster (while experimenting with acrylic plates) opted to create the wrist rest extension. There are no 3d printing designs that include wrist rests that I'm aware of.
So I'm guessing no one is planning a group buy in the U.S.?
So I'm guessing no one is planning a group buy in the U.S.?
It would be really great if all the cables would be detachable (mini usb to the computer, and between the parts of the keyboard). I imagine only connecting the one handed part would be great for gaming.
Can't, the controller is in the right side
It's not completely impossible to move the controller to the left hand side. The Teensy is simple enough to mount inverted. The USB connector is connected through wires which makes it easy to correct for mounting upside down. Bending all the legs of the expander IC over backwards makes it possible to mount it upside down, just like the Teensy. Depending on the case It may also be possible to just put the switches on the "wrong" side.
there are 4 holes where you could screw in legs like the ones you get with KMACs.
What i want to know is how they do quality control with a project like this.
Anyway, I voted on the massdrop.com poll. As far as I understand, they will start the group buy in January and ship to every country, right?
There are tons of people who offer assembly services
if i am reading this correctly the key caps will be a separate group buy?
$$$$
if i am reading this correctly the key caps will be a separate group buy?
$$$$
That is correct, go vote in the poll!
There are tons of people who offer assembly services
There are tons of people who offer assembly services
That is true, but no place to look them up directly. Might be a good idea to get an IC going, the number of people who may want assembled could overwhelm a single individual.
There are yet more people that do assembly that aren't working on Phantom/GH60.
With the screw based case construction you can experiment with different slants to find what position works best for you. In addition to slant customization, you can also fully customize the keyboard layout and reprogram the teensy board (uses Arduino software) to make the keys trigger whatever functions you desire.
Omg, it's here!! ;D
I have some questions though about the group buy text:QuoteWith the screw based case construction you can experiment with different slants to find what position works best for you. In addition to slant customization, you can also fully customize the keyboard layout and reprogram the teensy board (uses Arduino software) to make the keys trigger whatever functions you desire.
What do they mean by that? As far as I understand the cases available are flat and not slanted, right?
They also say there will be the choice between full hand and classic case.
Full hand case means the one with hand rest?
Which do you think is the more ergonomic choice?
Another question I couldn't find the answer for:
How high (in cm) is the case? On the pictures it looks quite high which might be not really ergonomical.
And last, but not least:
I'm a total switch noob. I only know that I dislike switches that need a lot of force to push.
So I guess maybe the blue switches would be the right choice?
I appreciate your help!
Browns are not on offer due to availability, no more than that.
so I'm guessing we are not able to purchase an extra set of pcb's?
Yeah, I'll probably end up doing both group buysIs there already another group buy running?
looks like this is live on that massdrop site...
i really want red switches... why aren't they available?
i really want red switches... why aren't they available?
I've found reds are hard to find.
i really want red switches... why aren't they available?
I've found reds are hard to find.
My 1st post. Greetings to all @ GH. :) Base on mouser for mx switches. Reds are on backorder till march. Browns are supposely having shortages elsewhere. With demands there are bound to be shortages i guess.
Asked them a few questions about it on the massdrop chat and if I like the responses I think i'll be down for one. Want to see the build guide first though because where they've put 'Here is a link to our instruction manual', I don't see a link?
Well I commited to buy from massdrop, just want the board, and this seems the simplest way to go about it. I'll probably just end up selling the switches from it and using my abundant vintage blacks for it.
Asked them a few questions about it on the massdrop chat and if I like the responses I think i'll be down for one. Want to see the build guide first though because where they've put 'Here is a link to our instruction manual', I don't see a link?
Well I commited to buy from massdrop, just want the board, and this seems the simplest way to go about it. I'll probably just end up selling the switches from it and using my abundant vintage blacks for it.
There was a lot of interest on DT as well it seems, but there is major hate towards mass-drop there.
There was a lot of interest on DT as well it seems, but there is major hate towards mass-drop there.
DT is inexplicably toxic towards massdrop, or really towards progress of any kind. If I were acting in my own self-interest and not the best interest of the buy, I would have stopped posting there long ago and updated only here.
But hey, if there is a single person monitoring only the DT thread that ends up buying in, I guess it was worth it.
Have done already, only reply I've had so far was a standard marketing blurb about the ErgoDox.
Worst comes to the worst I can get someone to get an extra set of PCBs and post them out to me then sort out teensy, diodes, etcetera myself.
Basically, my line of thinking is that no matter what, I'll have some kind of squishy wrist rest under my hands--the built-in wrist rest basically just determines the height, and whether I have one big one (no rest) or two small ones (rest). Also, one thing to consider is that Ergodox enables you to have your two halves spaced as far apart as you want, so maybe the two-small-pad method is best; in that case the design with the rests is best. it's worth noting that having the pad sitting on the case's built-in rest keeps the pad in place relative to the keyboard, whereas the case without the rest could potentially scoot away from the rest or something.
Food for thought.
I would like to have an extra set so I can switch out having blues and browns
And one last noob question: if I want to change the switches later on (because I have no idea which I want, will be my first mechanical keyboard ;D ), does it mean I need to unsolder all of the switches?
I think we'll make it no problem. there is all kinds of crazy interest in this, especially once we spread the word.I'll be sending out a mass PM to everyone interested.
Have done already, only reply I've had so far was a standard marketing blurb about the ErgoDox.If you need, I can help you with this.
Worst comes to the worst I can get someone to get an extra set of PCBs and post them out to me then sort out teensy, diodes, etcetera myself.
Hmm. Didn't notice there was a plate.. damn lol. I guess I would just get twoThe PCB looks just like the one bpiphany designed, and has holes for PCb or plate-mount switches.
Hmm. Didn't notice there was a plate.. damn lol. I guess I would just get twoYou can see it in the instructions: https://www.massdrop.com/dox-ergo.php
And one last noob question: if I want to change the switches later on (because I have no idea which I want, will be my first mechanical keyboard ;D ), does it mean I need to unsolder all of the switches?
It's possible to change out the stem/spring without desoldering. There are some threads around here, and you can find videos on youtube.
DT is inexplicably toxic towards massdrop
Dorkvader,
The ultimate goal will be that when people get the keyboard, they will have access to our open source UI and firmware, which will allow them to use either the default QWerty / ic07 layout or any other layout of their choice (the software will automatically do any compiling and hardware flashing necessary). The UI will be Windows only, XP and above. If you're running linux, you'll have to manually edit the firmware, compile it, and flash the teensy 2.0 controller manually.
Mouse buttons won't be a part of the software as far as I know. I am not sure how the Teensy would handle this, seems to me it would almost have to register as two pieces of hardware to achieve. As far as we know, at the very least 2 layers will be available to the end users. A default and function layer. If you'd like to know what the default currently is, I point you to the source, or to sit tight until I can make a prototype UI available which will allow the designing of any custom layout of your choice. Let me know if you have any questions as I would be glad to help!
Cheers,
OJ
I didn't know Massdrop was going to run this. I put in an order myself today. We can definitely work something out for these kits. Pricing will be higher than a normal set due to the number of 1.5 keys needed. When we order in normal 104 key sets, so one of these sets would use up 6 sets worth of 1.5 keys. If there's some interest from at least several people, I can put together a new layout file for everyone to use specifically for the ErgoDox. For pricing, we would be looking at around $80 per set.
What's the count at, or is it not published?Currently at 18, the count is on the massdrop 'site
18 sold, 11 buyers committed to buy if it reaches a certain price point and 59 people watching.
We need 100 sold to get to the 199$ price point.
18 sold, 11 buyers committed to buy if it reaches a certain price point and 59 people watching.
We need 100 sold to get to the 199$ price point.
So I assume that if Sold+Committed = 100 then it rolls over to $199? (ie. you could have 25 sold, and 74 committed, and as soon as there is one more commited, it becomes 100 sold?)
So I assume that if Sold+Committed = 100 then it rolls over to $199? (ie. you could have 25 sold, and 74 committed, and as soon as there is one more commited, it becomes 100 sold?)
got your pm DV! Although I'm already committed to buy!
Not sure if it matters but I didn't receive a PMThanks, I'll look into it. Yours should have gone out in the first batch. I'll send you one personally, so you can see what it looks like.
18 sold, 11 buyers committed to buy if it reaches a certain price point and 59 people watching.
We need 100 sold to get to the 199$ price point.
18 sold, 11 buyers committed to buy if it reaches a certain price point and 59 people watching.
We need 100 sold to get to the 199$ price point.
Even though there are 17 days left, I find myself hitting f5 a lot... it's now 20 sold...
Thanks, I'll look into it. Yours should have gone out in the first batch. I'll send you one personally, so you can see what it looks like.
I would highly recommend PCB mount even with the acrylic plate, however they are not strictly necessary. I also do not know what MD is supplying.
I'm sure you will be able to find a buyer wasabah. I'm leaning towards two kits so I can have one at work and one at home. I'm still debating if I want the full-hand or the standard cases, though.Work&Home: good idea.. damn! :D
I wish they'd put up a image for the aluminum case.
It doesn't say whether they are pcb or plate mount, but from what i've seen in the photos (https://www.massdrop.com/dox-ergo.php) the examples that they have shown appear to be PCB mount switches.
It have a slope if you look at the side picture but it was easier to only model some flat spherical keycaps. Final keycap shape is not determined yet and my be left to the user.
Yes the headers are for connecting the 2 halves.
Switches are priced in the GB at about $0.50 each, unfortunately not enough to do a 1:1 swap for the aluminum case.
It doesn't say whether they are pcb or plate mount, but from what i've seen in the photos (https://www.massdrop.com/dox-ergo.php) the examples that they have shown appear to be PCB mount switches.
https://massdropinc.s3.amazonaws.com/img_bucket/ergo-dox-instruction/_W3T1930.jpg
I have been really interested in the Ergodox forever and ever!
But I never, ever, ever clicked on this thread because the thread title does not say anything about ERGODOX so WHY would I click on this thread?! GRRR.
I would really love flat spherical keycaps or flat cylindrical, or all keycaps have a small slant.
...
Having all keys be the same profile is Awesome.
I wish this was available in red switches.
Will this keyboard work with a PS/2 adapter?
I see no real reason to put the controller on the left side if you are not building a left hand only keyboard. And I didn't have a good look at the case either right now. But if it is layered wouldn't you be able to simply flip each layer upside down before putting them together to mirror the design?
Hey litster, do you have your E-Dox case files posted somewhere? http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/5705699
Ah. Well at least we know the other forums are excited about the E-Dox too! :D
Will this keyboard work with a PS/2 adapter?
OJ ygpm.Ah. Well at least we know the other forums are excited about the E-Dox too! :D
Smalls ygpm.
Cheers,
OJ ygpm.Ah. Well at least we know the other forums are excited about the E-Dox too! :D
Smalls ygpm.
Cheers,
Cheers, :))
No sir, he was just asking me to build his board(s). :)OJ ygpm.Ah. Well at least we know the other forums are excited about the E-Dox too! :D
Smalls ygpm.
Cheers,
Cheers, :))
You guys making your own acrylic cases?
Do u have any proof that these "real PS/2 adaptors" actually exist and where could I buy one?Will this keyboard work with a PS/2 adapter?
The USB code is from PJRC for now, and conforms to the keyboard USB Boot Spec - i.e. the computer sees it as a regular, normal USB keyboard. Real PS/2 adaptors should work, as far as I know.
Passthrough adaptors (what the cheap ones usually are) almost certainly won't. I haven't tested either.I was already told they won't work.
I looked at a pic of the Ergodox and saw no FN key. Where is the FN key?
How does one generate the keycodes of the Function keys?
Can all other ANSI standard keycodes (the standard keys available since at least 1985 or before) be generated?
Or is this keyboard like the new Matias, CoolerMaster, etc. etc. etc. (lots of companies have been banishing keys) keyboards where certain standard keycodes are impossible to generate?
Thanks Glod :) . Ya, it's based on the Kinesis layout, but I did change a few things. The function layer is based on that of the Arensito layout (though, I failed to mention that in the current version of the source). Here's a prettier picture of all the layers, just for reference. Similar things for all the currently compiled layouts can be found in the .zip files for the binaries (follow the link in the readme, here (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware#downloading-binaries)).
(Attachment Link)
@TC:
Lol, nope, no proof... and a quick search didn't turn up anything either, sorry :/ . I have no idea what the other keyboards you mention are using to make themselves work on both USB and PS/2, so I dunno what to tell you about that. Guess I can't be much help :/ .
Do u have any proof that these "real PS/2 adaptors" actually exist and where could I buy one?
Do u have any proof that these "real PS/2 adaptors" actually exist and where could I buy one?
How about the famous blue cube (http://www.amazon.com/PS2-Keyboard-To-USB-Adapter/dp/B000BSJFJS/) adaptor? Works great with both my Model M and Kinesis Classic.Show Image(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21YWRCC1F7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
@TC:Ok good to know :)
There are both layer shift and layer lock keys on the default QWERTY layout.
As for PS/2 support: The USB portion of the code is from PJRC. I haven't had time to rewrite it myself (though, I think the original author did a pretty good job). I know of one or two other libraries I could have used, but they looked harder to work with, and none of them supported PS/2. The rest of the code I wrote myself, in my free time, for free (and fun :) ). Please don't ever tell a developer that (to paraphrase) they downloaded their free open source code, and they really should go downloaded a different one. It's quite a bit insulting.I apologize if I did not word things well. I'm dying. I'm on hardcore drugz. I am wiped out tired. My POS Rosewill keyboard keeps flashing lights at me and doing freaky things (like eating my keys or making the alt key get stuck even though I never pressed the Alt key in the first place, etc.) Its hard for me to concentrate tbh. I am really sorry. I didn't mean to be insulting. :-[
Browns are not on offer due to availability, no more than that.
ah ok
Also, 7bit has a date of 01/2013 for the same:If I would want to order these for the Ergodox (complementing the Massdrop group buy), which would I need?
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html
I apologize if I did not word things well. I'm dying. I'm on hardcore drugz. I am wiped out tired. My POS Rosewill keyboard keeps flashing lights at me and doing freaky things (like eating my keys or making the alt key get stuck even though I never pressed the Alt key in the first place, etc.) Its hard for me to concentrate tbh. I am really sorry. I didn't mean to be insulting. :-[
I didn't mean u should replace the code you have. Your code obviously works so no need to change it AFAICT. I just meant that there surely must be free PS/2 controller code floating around somewhere that could be added in, in addition to the USB code, given that PS/2 has been around for 30 years (or however long, I think PS/2 is actually just a shrunken DIN5 which has been around way longer than 30 years).
I have a vague memory that I saw a PS/2 controller somewhere... it was probably on opencores.org
I will offer you a $200.00 bribe :) but u can call it a bounty :) to add PS/2 support to the controller. I am sorry that I cannot offer more but I don't have an ergodox, and there is no guarantee that I will ever get one, or that it will really and truly allow me to begin coding again. Also if I get an Ergodox it might cost a really HUGE amount of money to pay someone to put it together for me. Nobody has actually offered to put it together for me at any price. I absolutely cannot ever build one myself. I can barely sit in a chair and shove the mouse around. No way I can do anything more complicated than that. But I can send $$$ with AmazonPay.
For those interested in a fully assembled product, below are a list of people on GH willing to help. PM and coordinate with them for a quote.
TheProfosist (USA) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=12209)
DorkVader (USA) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=13303)
Geekabit (EU) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=16736)
Dirge (UK) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=16113)
localredhead (?) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=22209)
It does mean a lot to me and it means a lot to various other ppl out there who are reading this msg but are like I was, they are in READONLY mode and are unable to type due to their hands being trashed.I apologize if I did not word things well. I'm dying. I'm on hardcore drugz. I am wiped out tired. My POS Rosewill keyboard keeps flashing lights at me and doing freaky things (like eating my keys or making the alt key get stuck even though I never pressed the Alt key in the first place, etc.) Its hard for me to concentrate tbh. I am really sorry. I didn't mean to be insulting. :-[
Thanks... I'm sorry too. I guess I'm a bit touchy at the moment, probably because of some of the more heated discussions that happened over on DT a little bit ago. I should have been more patient :/QuoteI didn't mean u should replace the code you have. Your code obviously works so no need to change it AFAICT. I just meant that there surely must be free PS/2 controller code floating around somewhere that could be added in, in addition to the USB code, given that PS/2 has been around for 30 years (or however long, I think PS/2 is actually just a shrunken DIN5 which has been around way longer than 30 years).
I have a vague memory that I saw a PS/2 controller somewhere... it was probably on opencores.org
I will offer you a $200.00 bribe :) but u can call it a bounty :) to add PS/2 support to the controller. I am sorry that I cannot offer more but I don't have an ergodox, and there is no guarantee that I will ever get one, or that it will really and truly allow me to begin coding again. Also if I get an Ergodox it might cost a really HUGE amount of money to pay someone to put it together for me. Nobody has actually offered to put it together for me at any price. I absolutely cannot ever build one myself. I can barely sit in a chair and shove the mouse around. No way I can do anything more complicated than that. But I can send $$$ with AmazonPay.
Your bribe (*cough* bounty, lol) is very generous :) . And if it really means that much to you, I'd be very tempted to do it for free, if I could.
Unfortunately, my main problem is that I don't have *time* :/ or enough domain knowledge to do it quickly. This weekend I have work, the next two weeks I'm visiting my grandparents (who I can't very well neglect, lol), and for most of the next few months after that I'll be back in school... And as I've never dealt with PS/2 before (or USB, for that matter, which is why I'm still using a library), or many of the Teensy functions a PS/2 library would be using (interrupts and timers come to mind), I don't think my chances of success in any reasonable amount of time would be good.I was not expecting any progress for at least 3 months. Long after the group buy is over. That is why I was saying it may never benefit me in any way.
In fact, I had an experience not that long ago trying to integrate code I didn't have time to understand when I tried to get mousekeys into the firmware. There's a nice library for making the Teensy emulate a mouse, and lots of other people have done it - but I couldn't figure it out at the time, and I still haven't had time to go back and make it work. So, I'm sorry... but I'm sure you can understand.Coding alien systems is a batch. And I don't mean it like a file of script commands :))
In the meantime, I was able to find an active USB -> PS/2 converter (http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-PS22USB/dp/B0055PKVZY) :) . It's crazy expensive, and it only has one (very bad...) review... but lol, at least it's proof they exist :) .If it doesn't even work then it doesn't exist. :)
a great ergonomic keyboard to help your health issuesthis remains to be seen
Either PCB mount or plate mount would work, the ergodox PCB can accommodate both kinds (which is awesome). PCB mount might be better IMO, since they have a pair of strong plastic pins which go into additional holes of the PCB, making the construction sturdier.
However PCB-mount switches usually cost a bit more.
I think the keyboard has 76 keys, so 80 should be enough to cover any accidents, although I notice the massdrop assembly instructions mention they provide 88.
Yup, I get the same either way.
More than anything else, the pins give the switch the proper orientation. One thing I noticed with the Phantom plate was that the switches could rotate slightly, especially the keys that had multiple positions (mods, space, etc). This is a problem for stabilized keys, especially space, which can't afford any rotation at all.
This is what I keep getting :(
https://www.massdrop.com/php/APIError.php
PayPal API Error
The PayPal API has returned an error!
TIMESTAMP: 2013-01-12T22:47:45Z
ACK: Failure
VERSION: 65.1
BUILD: 4181146
L_ERRORCODE0: 10400
L_SHORTMESSAGE0: Transaction refused because of an invalid argument. See additional error messages for details.
L_LONGMESSAGE0: Order total is missing.
L_SEVERITYCODE0: Error
True, but I find it hard to believe that it won't help.a great ergonomic keyboard to help your health issuesthis remains to be seen
Now that the keyboard is soon in hand, it's time to start looking for a wrist rest for split keyboard. I was think about getting
some soft wrist rest for it. I am kinda hoping it would be possible to get something that would put the weight on the palms
rather than the wrists like with the truly ergonomic keyboard and the kinesis advantage. Maybe two mouse wrist rests will do
the trick? Ideas anyone?
Now that the keyboard is soon in hand, it's time to start looking for a wrist rest for split keyboard. I was think about getting
some soft wrist rest for it. I am kinda hoping it would be possible to get something that would put the weight on the palms
rather than the wrists like with the truly ergonomic keyboard and the kinesis advantage. Maybe two mouse wrist rests will do
the trick? Ideas anyone?
Now that the keyboard is soon in hand, it's time to start looking for a wrist rest for split keyboard. I was think about getting
some soft wrist rest for it. I am kinda hoping it would be possible to get something that would put the weight on the palms
rather than the wrists like with the truly ergonomic keyboard and the kinesis advantage. Maybe two mouse wrist rests will do
the trick? Ideas anyone?
Is my wrist rest case design not available from massdrop?
Now that the keyboard is soon in hand, it's time to start looking for a wrist rest for split keyboard. I was think about getting
some soft wrist rest for it. I am kinda hoping it would be possible to get something that would put the weight on the palms
rather than the wrists like with the truly ergonomic keyboard and the kinesis advantage. Maybe two mouse wrist rests will do
the trick? Ideas anyone?
Is my wrist rest case design not available from massdrop?
As far as I know it is. This is your design, yes?:Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/massdropinc/product-images/fullhandcase.jpeg)
It is available, but I wanted something soft. I guess I could just add one of these: http://www.amazon.com/GRIFITI-Notebook-Silicone-Reposition-Travelling/dp/B00897D3OQ/ref=pd_sbs_pc_1
to it, but I think that a separate palm rest would be better for me.
The Ergodox is not my idea of my dream keyboard. It simply appears to be less crazy than a Kinesis Advantage and it seems like it is made by ppl who are actually trying to solve a problem. Since they seem like they are trying I am willing to go ahead and spend the bucks to buy it and pay someone to put it together for me if someone will fix the USB/PS/2 issue.True, but I find it hard to believe that it won't help.a great ergonomic keyboard to help your health issuesthis remains to be seen
if someone will fix the USB/PS/2 issue.
/snip
1. The thumb buttons are built into the hand buttons. I never asked for that and don't exactly want it due to this makes the keyboard as a whole take up a huge amount of deskspace. This means the keyboard either: A) Won't work for me. B) Will work for me but it will always be hanging off the edge of my lapmat or the edge of my rollerdesk and eventually will fall off and break.
Rule #13 The keyboard shall not be any higher than neccessary or extreme arm pain shall cause paralysis or death.
Rule #2. If you break Rule#1 then you MUST keep the mouse right in front of you. None of this nonsense keeping the mouse way up on a tall desk out beyond your numeric keypad.
How do you know it actually works? Have u tried it? What if there is a bug in the controller software so that you can redefine any key you want except the layer keys? That is exactly the kind of bug/limitation I would expect.The board is built with a teensy microcontroller. If there is a bug in the software you can replace the software since the source is available. Looking at the source, it should be possible to change the layer keys. If there actually is a bug the rest of us would want to know about it and fix it.
Because PS/2 keyboards work on everything.if someone will fix the USB/PS/2 issue.
Why is it an issue for you that it needs to be PS2?
Need more than 6KRO?It is a very nice feature. And I respect nice features. It says to me "This keyboard is WORTH the $800.00 you paid for it". But whatever.
Legacy pass-through devices,Yes. This is required.
or using it on an old system?Yes. This is required.
> Dude, you can like totally redefine the layer keys to be shift keys.From looking at the code, as far as I can tell, they define every key function from a matrix, and then assign them to their proper positions. This means that every key is arbitrarily assigned, generally speaking it should mean that if it works at all, it will work other ways, too. The function key position is not hardcoded, because no key is hardcoded. Even on my access-IS keyboards, you can arbitrarily assign the function keys. When I get my ErgoDOX, I fully plan on testing out some interesting custom layouts. Moving the function layer-swap key is a useful thing that I'm certain I'll try. I also want to play with a layout with my most-used Function keys on it without the need for pressing a fn key to get them. This is one of the many good parts about a programmable keyboard.
How do you know it actually works? Have u tried it? What if there is a bug in the controller software so that you can redefine any key you want except the layer keys? That is exactly the kind of bug/limitation I would expect.
If I could redefine the layer keys to be elsewhere, which other keys would I destroy? This is why a keyboard needs a few extra keys on it so you don't get jammed up just because you want some extra shift keys.
You see, switching to Ergodox is a risk.
If you want to be critical of the ErgoDox and split keyboard designs, i wouldn't suggest doing that here, i would create a new thread doing so.I am not trying to be critical of the ErgoDox.
If you want to be critical of keyboards that do not support PS/2 such as Topre and others then also create a thread doing so instead of doing that in a unrelated thread. Creating a new thread is easy and there are multiple forums with different categories to create threads in. You are likely to get more accomplished in a new thread about your concerns than in posts you drop in on.I will take that under consideration.
The MassDrop GB seems to be a success, and people who are new to geekhack who were brought here by interest in the ErgoDox are going to see your posts in here and feel less inclined to participate altogether. This is exactly what happened lately in the Deskthority.net thread; things were very constructive in the thread and then it went to hell and actually caused people to loose interest in the ErgoDox the way i see it; thankfully DorkVader came to action.I think you have misunderstood something. I like u and would not insult u.
I am not trying to "troll" you and get you worked up but you have insulted me,
you have insulted ic07,GRRR
I asked you nicely above to not do this here again and you punched me in the stomach instead.Do u understand that you guys all type like 40x faster than me?
I asked you nicely above to not do this here again and you punched me in the stomach instead.Do u understand that you guys all type like 40x faster than me?
When I post a msg it will typically say something like "There have been 8 new posts" or whatever. The big msg that you are complaining about the most I think took me like 2.4 hours iirc.
Just to be clear,
1. You are saying I am not allowed to answer other ppl's questions in this thread.
2. I am not allowed to request any improvements.
Is that correct?
I will try to follow your rules.
Peace out
3) You haven't answered anyone's questions as far as I can tell, especially as to why you even need PS/2 support.I'm pretty sure he made it clear he desires legacy support via PS/2.
Ok that is good to know. I am certain that if there are any bugs they will get fixed...> Dude, you can like totally redefine the layer keys to be shift keys.
How do you know it actually works? Have u tried it? What if there is a bug in the controller software so that you can redefine any key you want except the layer keys? That is exactly the kind of bug/limitation I would expect.
If I could redefine the layer keys to be elsewhere, which other keys would I destroy? This is why a keyboard needs a few extra keys on it so you don't get jammed up just because you want some extra shift keys.
You see, switching to Ergodox is a risk. EDIT: I meant a risk to _me_ because I need to shift with fingers other than my pinkies. I didn't mean it is a risk to anybody else. And I didn't mean "Risk" as in "Rosewill Risk" as in "complete failure" I just meant "it might not work out for _me_".
From looking at the code, as far as I can tell, they define every key function from a matrix, and then assign them to their proper positions. This means that every key is arbitrarily assigned, generally speaking it should mean that if it works at all, it will work other ways, too.
The function key position is not hardcoded, because no key is hardcoded.
Also, why PS2?You know perfectly good and well that Glod is going to ban me if I answer you so why are u still asking me ?
I don't think it has it now, but there is certainly a possibility of making this NKRO over USB, like what my soarer adapter does with my model F. I recognize it's good to have your preference, but I'm interested to know the reason.Is the Teensy controller using USB2 or USB3?
3) You haven't answered anyone's questions as far as I can tell, especially as to why you even need PS/2 support.I'm pretty sure he made it clear he desires legacy support via PS/2.
We know what he wants... we don't know why. But thanks for your fantastically constructive post.I do what I can. Thanks for crapping on a prospective buyer :cool:
Cheers,
I have a gazillion computers and they all have PS/2 ports. All my KVM switches have PS/2 ports. They all work. I have never had a PS/2 port fail yet.
If I take my USB 1.1 ergodox to the factory to use it on the robots, oh wait I CAN'T use it because it won't work on PS/2 so forget that idea.
[stuff]
We know what he wants... we don't know why. But thanks for your fantastically constructive post.I do what I can. Thanks for crapping on a prospective buyer :cool:
Cheers,
Glod isn't a moderator or admin and has no Ban privileges.
Glod isn't a moderator or admin and has no Ban privileges.
I hope it didn't come off that I was trying to be a moderator. As a fan of this project I was kindly informing TC that he had insulted people and asking to stop threadcrap and gave my argument.
I do what I can. Thanks for crapping on a prospective buyer :cool:
no LED backlight support unless you want to hack it in yourself.
Let me know exactly want then checkout as you would normally. Once you checkout and tell me, I can put a note on that transaction saying what you want and you'll be charged the right amount. The case is $80 by itself and the PCB is $44.
I assume the board will take "normal" sized keycaps, but will the possible future GB's feature slightly angled rows? It would be logical to assume, that ergonomically speaking the keycaps should be looking more towards the middle, I don't know whether this is common practice here. My Das Ultimate has this feature, and it's really comfortable to type on. (please don't be harsh, I really don't know if all keyboards are like this or not)
I will be starting a GB for assembling ErgoDox's later today so if you interested keep you eyes posted prices will be similar to my phantom GB.
yep also people pmd me directly about this already so i though id just make it available to everyone right awayI will be starting a GB for assembling ErgoDox's later today so if you interested keep you eyes posted prices will be similar to my phantom GB.
you sure like to keep yourself busy don't ya?
Are the LED's affected by the diode setting in any way? Or would I always keep their cathodes going into the square solder point ?
He want to devirginate all our Ergodox for himself :p :))I will be starting a GB for assembling ErgoDox's later today so if you interested keep you eyes posted prices will be similar to my phantom GB.
you sure like to keep yourself busy don't ya?
This one is pretty good:
Ok, I revised my post to higher values :-)
Truth is, it highly depends on the iron. Underpowered irons need a lot of time to heat up the component enough to get the solder flowing, but overpowered ones can easily overheat and damage components. Anyway that video tutorial looks indeed great!
Judging from the tutorial videos, the only way you can mess up real bad is if you damage one of the components of the board or the board itself. Everything else solder related can be recovered from with a solder sucker, right? What I'm getting at is, unless you manage to melt your board, you should be fine. (hopefully)Unless you damage the board or the components. The board is more resilient than the components though, and the diodes and resistors are dirt cheap.
I have melted things that I should not have before... one prime example would be the insert key of my ThinkPad, I wanted to heat it up with a hair dryer to remove the inscription (cause I NEED them to be blank), but I held it too close and it deformed... from that day forward I do not have an insert key on my laptop ;D
In other news, we're almost at 50 units sold on MD and the next price tier.Unfortunately, it seems impossible to get 50 more buyers in 12 days, so I guess 226$ it is. Plus 65$, if you get the aluminum case.
Considering that there are multiple part suppliers involved, not really. An example scenario: 1 break is from PCBs, next break is from case manuf., next break from both.Aaaaah, I get it... it makes more sense now. ^-^
The massdrop website is a bit confusing, at one place it states that the buy gets to the next drop at 100 buyers (we are currently at 51), but above the commit to join panel it says there are only 38 more people needed.
edit: The massdrop website is a bit confusing, at one place it states that the buy gets to the next drop at 100 buyers (we are currently at 51), but above the commit to join panel it says there are only 38 more people needed.
edit: The massdrop website is a bit confusing, at one place it states that the buy gets to the next drop at 100 buyers (we are currently at 51), but above the commit to join panel it says there are only 38 more people needed.
The 38 is because there are (apparently) 11 people that are in the Commit to Join group, which means they will only buy if it hits the $199 pricepoint... so if there are 38 more buyers, then those 11 will automatically be added to the total pool, and it will hit 100, and the $199 price.
The massdrop website is a bit confusing, at one place it states that the buy gets to the next drop at 100 buyers (we are currently at 51), but above the commit to join panel it says there are only 38 more people needed.
There are around 12 people "commited to buy" if the price reaches lowest level, i.e. we need 38 more people and then those 12 will be automatically added as normal buyers. Previous UI was showing it as a tooltip for the "Commit to Join" button.
38 is not that big number for 2 more weeks. I suspect many people are still monitoring the forums, but not yet bought, including myself - I will buy 2, but want to see the aluminum case photos first and if there will be brown switches in the end. Don't want to bother with last minute updates of my order. But I guess I will buy this week already anyway.
Thx guys, I forgot about the committed to buy thing. I haven't ordered mine either, because even though they specifically stated that they ship internationally, I can not set the shipping to Hungary... :( And I'm waiting for the aluminium case as well. :cool:
Yeah, I just did too. ;DThx guys, I forgot about the committed to buy thing. I haven't ordered mine either, because even though they specifically stated that they ship internationally, I can not set the shipping to Hungary... :( And I'm waiting for the aluminium case as well. :cool:
Send them an email, I've got Estonia added in 3 days after the second email... They seem to be busy trying to satisfy all our various needs and configurations :)
Last I looked, 7bit's switch GB (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html) has browns available this month.I started hoping that I could save a dollar or two by ordering the switches themselves from a different place, but it would cost 37.8€ + shipping to get 84 pieces of blues, so I guess I'll stay with the included ones at massdrop.
ic07 / Dox/ bpiphany:
Would the controller/firmware somehow be able to support a piezo speaker to emit a click sound (like the Kinesis Advantage, and a few other keyboards do) when a key registers ? If anyone has an idea what mod / extra components might be needed, let me know... I like the audible feedback, but if not possible I might go with cherry MX blues I guess.
If you don't already have spare keycaps or want to cannibalize caps from a used Cherry G80, it looks like the cheapest option for new caps (at least from WASD) would be to get:The 87-key set will provide (2) 1x1.5 keys and (7) 1x1.25 keys sufficient to cover the ErgoDox's (8 ) 1x1.5 key spots with some slight edge gaps, or you can add (10) Row-3 1x1.5 keys ($1/ea.). The 87-key set includes a cap puller and enough spare F-keys, which have a fairly flat Row-4 profile that the ErgoDox won't use, that can be used to fill in keys as needed. I wonder if WASD would be willing to offer an 87-key labeled set with blank F-keys upon request?
- 87-key set ($37 blank, +$10 labeled)
and- (4) numpad "+" keys ($1/ea.)
or- (2) "+" keys ($1/ea.) and
- (1) Row-4 1x2.00 key ($1.25)
I just reached out to MD support, again - let's see if we can get some pictures of an aluminum case...maybe. I asked about case feet, too. I know litster mentioned the case was designed with holes on the bottom to accommodate them.
ic07 / Dox/ bpiphany:I want this feature too! I have wanted this feature for a century!
Would the controller/firmware somehow be able to support a piezo speaker to emit a click sound (like the Kinesis Advantage, and a few other keyboards do) when a key registers ? If anyone has an idea what mod / extra components might be needed, let me know... I like the audible feedback, but if not possible I might go with cherry MX blues I guess.
Every word has its own melody?I agree its fun! I want each successive char to play the next note of "Jingle Bells" or "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" or "Mary had a Little Lamb" or "Like a Virgin" or "Beethoven's 5th Sympony" or etc. Way loads of fun!
I'm curious about whether different tone on each key produces better audible feedback than mono tone. Even if not, it is a fun at least :)
I believe someone already wrote AHK script doing like this somewhere. I'd find and try.
One of Mr Interface's projects may interest you:Every word has its own melody?I agree its fun! I want each successive char to play the next note of "Jingle Bells" or "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" or "Mary had a Little Lamb" or "Like a Virgin" or "Beethoven's 5th Sympony" or etc. Way loads of fun!
I'm curious about whether different tone on each key produces better audible feedback than mono tone. Even if not, it is a fun at least :)
I believe someone already wrote AHK script doing like this somewhere. I'd find and try.
If you have a dac and some ram you can play anything.
If you don't already have spare keycaps or want to cannibalize caps from a used Cherry G80, it looks like the cheapest option for new caps (at least from WASD) would be to get:The 87-key set will provide (2) 1x1.5 keys and (7) 1x1.25 keys sufficient to cover the ErgoDox's (8 ) 1x1.5 key spots with some slight edge gaps, or you can add (10) Row-3 1x1.5 keys ($1/ea.). The 87-key set includes a cap puller and enough spare F-keys, which have a fairly flat Row-4 profile that the ErgoDox won't use, that can be used to fill in keys as needed. I wonder if WASD would be willing to offer an 87-key labeled set with blank F-keys upon request?
- 87-key set ($37 blank, +$10 labeled)
and- (4) numpad "+" keys ($1/ea.)
or- (3) Row-4 1x2.00 key ($1.25)
or- (2) "+" keys & (1) Row-4 1x2.00 key
What's the ideal set?
Regarding the Aluminum case and photos:
We've placed the order with the manufacturer and will have pictures on Thursday or Friday
Regarding switch stabilizers in the kit
No, switch stabilizers are not included in this kit. We should easily be able to run group buys on these if there is enough interest though.
Regarding feet for the case
Unfortunately, no the feet are not included.
Regarding shipping (1 of 2) kits ordered to a different address. I this was asked by someone - about shipping directly to TheProfosist for build.
Not a problem. When you place your second order, just specify that address
I got responses from MassDrop on my questions. wasabah got the core answers we were waiting for this morning, as well.
All answers provided by Steve @ MassDrop.Code: [Select]Regarding the Aluminum case and photos:
We've placed the order with the manufacturer and will have pictures on Thursday or FridayCode: [Select]Regarding switch stabilizers in the kit
No, switch stabilizers are not included in this kit. We should easily be able to run group buys on these if there is enough interest though.Code: [Select]Regarding feet for the case
Unfortunately, no the feet are not included.Code: [Select]Regarding shipping (1 of 2) kits ordered to a different address. I this was asked by someone - about shipping directly to TheProfosist for build.
Not a problem. When you place your second order, just specify that address
I got responses from MassDrop on my questions. wasabah got the core answers we were waiting for this morning, as well.
All answers provided by Steve @ MassDrop.Code: [Select]Regarding the Aluminum case and photos:
We've placed the order with the manufacturer and will have pictures on Thursday or FridayCode: [Select]Regarding switch stabilizers in the kit
No, switch stabilizers are not included in this kit. We should easily be able to run group buys on these if there is enough interest though.Code: [Select]Regarding feet for the case
Unfortunately, no the feet are not included.Code: [Select]Regarding shipping (1 of 2) kits ordered to a different address. I this was asked by someone - about shipping directly to TheProfosist for build.
Not a problem. When you place your second order, just specify that address
no feet? :(
i guess i got to buy something to prevent it from sliding....
get some egrips and that thing wont move. If you dont want to buy a roll i have one and could sell strips.I got responses from MassDrop on my questions. wasabah got the core answers we were waiting for this morning, as well.
All answers provided by Steve @ MassDrop.Code: [Select]Regarding the Aluminum case and photos:
We've placed the order with the manufacturer and will have pictures on Thursday or FridayCode: [Select]Regarding switch stabilizers in the kit
No, switch stabilizers are not included in this kit. We should easily be able to run group buys on these if there is enough interest though.Code: [Select]Regarding feet for the case
Unfortunately, no the feet are not included.Code: [Select]Regarding shipping (1 of 2) kits ordered to a different address. I this was asked by someone - about shipping directly to TheProfosist for build.
Not a problem. When you place your second order, just specify that address
no feet? :(
i guess i got to buy something to prevent it from sliding....
get some egrips and that thing wont move. If you dont want to buy a roll i have one and could sell strips.
right here sir http://tinyurl.com/ab2t2l8get some egrips and that thing wont move. If you dont want to buy a roll i have one and could sell strips.
whatever costs less i guess, however grip material sounds like something i would want to hoard :) where would you find a roll of this stuff? I need to put that stuff on my HHKB which slides all over my desk when i don't have a desk rug lol
right here sir http://tinyurl.com/ab2t2l8get some egrips and that thing wont move. If you dont want to buy a roll i have one and could sell strips.
whatever costs less i guess, however grip material sounds like something i would want to hoard :) where would you find a roll of this stuff? I need to put that stuff on my HHKB which slides all over my desk when i don't have a desk rug lol
also check out all the info on the product at http://www.egrips.com/
yep yep though i did put some of this inbetween http://tinyurl.com/a7edugp so it stuck better and made it a bit thicker.right here sir http://tinyurl.com/ab2t2l8get some egrips and that thing wont move. If you dont want to buy a roll i have one and could sell strips.
whatever costs less i guess, however grip material sounds like something i would want to hoard :) where would you find a roll of this stuff? I need to put that stuff on my HHKB which slides all over my desk when i don't have a desk rug lol
also check out all the info on the product at http://www.egrips.com/
Is this tape stuff the grippy material you put on the bottom of the 23ub I bought off of you? If it is, it's amazing! Way better than cabinet liner.
Do you guys think it would be possible to install some kind of led strip into the ErgoDox to get a nice shine through the space between the keys? I will be using blanks, but it would look kinda cool especially with an RGB strip to produce multiple colors. :cool:
links not working for me but i think it like that cabinet liner
I would want one ErgoDox for normal use with blues, and a left sided half :D for gaming with reds. Would this be possible?
Well, I am hoping to get the one intended for the keypad to cost around half the price, and I would not like having one whole additional ErgoDox where I don't even use one of its sides. If it's not possible, I won't buy a second one to have half of it as a keypad, that's for sure! :))I would want one ErgoDox for normal use with blues, and a left sided half :D for gaming with reds. Would this be possible?
Buy two!
Well, I am hoping to get the one intended for the keypad to cost around half the price, and I would not like having one whole additional ErgoDox where I don't even use one of its sides. If it's not possible, I won't buy a second one to have half of it as a keypad, that's for sure! :))I would want one ErgoDox for normal use with blues, and a left sided half :D for gaming with reds. Would this be possible?
Buy two!
Well, I am hoping to get the one intended for the keypad to cost around half the price, and I would not like having one whole additional ErgoDox where I don't even use one of its sides. If it's not possible, I won't buy a second one to have half of it as a keypad, that's for sure! :))I would want one ErgoDox for normal use with blues, and a left sided half :D for gaming with reds. Would this be possible?Buy two!
I'm interested in this but I'd like to see what people think of it, and I can't afford $200 right now. I also wouldn't know what switch to choose because I've only tried one type, and it is my simple alps board.
Will it possibly be available again in the future, or be developed more? Great work, it looks awesome!
Also, no function keys? why not?
I'm interested in this but I'd like to see what people think of it, and I can't afford $200 right now. I also wouldn't know what switch to choose because I've only tried one type, and it is my simple alps board.
Will it possibly be available again in the future, or be developed more?
I'm also probably get two. If I get one and love it, I will hate not having a second one for the office. The risk is just to great :eek:
I'm also probably get two. If I get one and love it, I will hate not having a second one for the office. The risk is just to great :eek:
Exactly my point for ordering 2 :cool:
I'm actually thinking what happens if one of my sons follows my path and starts typing a lot and would need a good keyboard also. Which may happen quite soon actually :rolleyes:
I'm also probably get two. If I get one and love it, I will hate not having a second one for the office. The risk is just to great :eek:
Exactly my point for ordering 2 :cool:
I'm actually thinking what happens if one of my sons follows my path and starts typing a lot and would need a good keyboard also. Which may happen quite soon actually :rolleyes:
What about your grandchildren?
Let's check with live support - I'll update this once I hear back.sounds great, we have to be bugging the **** outa them.
Let's check with live support - I'll update this once I hear back.sounds great, we have to be bugging the **** outa them.
Let's check with live support - I'll update this once I hear back.sounds great, we have to be bugging the **** outa them.
What I've been thinking. And I didn't get a response - plus I think I scared them away. Live support isn't available anymore right now.
Let's check with live support - I'll update this once I hear back.sounds great, we have to be bugging the **** outa them.
What I've been thinking. And I didn't get a response - plus I think I scared them away. Live support isn't available anymore right now.
Lunchtime in California...
Let's check with live support - I'll update this once I hear back.sounds great, we have to be bugging the **** outa them.
What I've been thinking. And I didn't get a response - plus I think I scared them away. Live support isn't available anymore right now.
Lunchtime in California...
lol or they are dodging us, what if the reason there isn't a picture yet is because its ugly?
lol or they are dodging us, what if the reason there isn't a picture yet is because its ugly?OH NOES D:
As it's waterjet cut, it may just not work. Tolerance isn't all that great on a water jet and if they cut the plate with it, they may not be able to get switches into it.
I just realized these have acrylic plates for the switches. Acrylic in 0.060" is a lot more flimsy than a metal plate. I'm curious to know how it feels though.
Show Image(http://danceswithfat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg)
guys, whats the verdict?I'm sticking with acrylic, thats for sure....
Like I posted in the other ErgoDox thread; I don't like it, and I think the acrylic looks a lot better. That being said I know a lot of people like aluminum, so it will help boost the sales a little bit at least.Ctrl+v, if someone doesn't read the other thread.
Making one that's not a layer-cake would boost the cost by at least $150I'm thinking about making only the top layer from aluminium, which would cover the sides as well, and would be from a one-piece block. This was you could keep all the other layers, and still have a very nice metal looking aluminium keyboard.
I guess i'm a bit alone in liking it but i am going to go acrylic anyway lol, i don't see the money justification and its ugly full hand either way, i have lots of stuff to buy coming up; phantom, gh60, ergodox. money better spent on double shot key caps for my projects. :)
does anyone know if the switches that massdrop is selling have the pcb mounting tabs, meaning pcb mounted switches. I would be more comfortable knowing the switches have both a plate and pcb mount.
edit: ooooh snap, they added mx red switches as an option, yeeeessssssss
Hi!
I quote the site: "Don't worry - you won't be charged until the end of the group buy. You'll have to enter your payment info up front so we know you're serious, but you'll only be charged the final price."
I decided to commit to buying the ErgoDox keyboard, have listed PayPal as my preferred paying method, and have finalised the procedure. Yet unlike the site states, it has charged my PayPal account immediately. This either has to be a bug with the implementation of PayPal or you posted false information and deceived your customers. I really hope you can clarify the situation and fix this problem.
Regards,
xxx
Hi!
I quote the site: "Don't worry - you won't be charged until the end of the group buy. You'll have to enter your payment info up front so we know you're serious, but you'll only be charged the final price."
I decided to commit to buying the ErgoDox keyboard, have listed PayPal as my preferred paying method, and have finalised the procedure. Yet unlike the site states, it has charged my PayPal account immediately. This either has to be a bug with the implementation of PayPal or you posted false information and deceived your customers. I really hope you can clarify the situation and fix this problem.
Regards,
xxx
Well, due to unfortunate happenings I had to write a letter to MassDrop.QuoteHi!
I quote the site: "Don't worry - you won't be charged until the end of the group buy. You'll have to enter your payment info up front so we know you're serious, but you'll only be charged the final price."
I decided to commit to buying the ErgoDox keyboard, have listed PayPal as my preferred paying method, and have finalised the procedure. Yet unlike the site states, it has charged my PayPal account immediately. This either has to be a bug with the implementation of PayPal or you posted false information and deceived your customers. I really hope you can clarify the situation and fix this problem.
Regards,
xxx
The really ironic part is my email inbox.Show Image(http://kepfeltoltes.hu/130119/whelp_thats_intersting_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png)
Well, due to unfortunate happenings I had to write a letter to MassDrop.QuoteHi!
I quote the site: "Don't worry - you won't be charged until the end of the group buy. You'll have to enter your payment info up front so we know you're serious, but you'll only be charged the final price."
I decided to commit to buying the ErgoDox keyboard, have listed PayPal as my preferred paying method, and have finalised the procedure. Yet unlike the site states, it has charged my PayPal account immediately. This either has to be a bug with the implementation of PayPal or you posted false information and deceived your customers. I really hope you can clarify the situation and fix this problem.
Regards,
xxx
The really ironic part is my email inbox.Show Image(http://kepfeltoltes.hu/130119/whelp_thats_intersting_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png)
yeah the paypal thing scares me a bit because they are authorized to take my money. mine in pay pal saysWhat did you do? After purchasing it redirected me to the PayPal website, where I clicked one continue and it made the payment immediately.
"Authorization To MassDrop Group Inc. Pending"
its been at pending authorization since i signed up last week, no movement of money has occurred thankfully. i'm wondering though how with the price changing how they are going to deal with that, they are authorized to take 274$ from me, but it looks like they are going to drop to 199 when we hit 100, are they going to take my 274 and refund me 75?
Well, due to unfortunate happenings I had to write a letter to MassDrop.QuoteShow Image(http://kepfeltoltes.hu/130119/whelp_thats_intersting_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png)
I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that when a merchant authorizes a payment, they are just checking that sufficient funds are there. They aren't taking the money at that point (and they might never take it). And yes, they are able to reauthorize it for a different amount.
You might find the info on this page helpful:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=developer/howto_admin_authcapture
Let me clarify that I'm not speaking from firsthand knowledge of massdrop, but I have been the buyer in a preorder type situation before and what's described in the paypal website is consistent with my experience at the time.
Ok, seems like the money is frozen on my PayPal account (it's not sent yet), why I freaked out is that I got a text to my phone from the bank that said: "Successful card payment - 263 USD; PayPal *Massdrop Inc." It's really surprising thought, that to check that I have sufficient funds, they have to freeze that amount. In that case, it's really not different from taking the money right away.
The waiter doesn't check whether I have got enough money when I go to a restaurant, nor does he take the wallet for a deposit. I thought Massdrop trusted their customers that much.
Never had a tab at a bar where you had to hand over your card? Usually they run it for a certain amount for pre-approval... just to make sure you're not handing them a dead card. How about reservations for a hotel? You put your credit card info in, and they pre-approve it for a certain charge, but don't actually bill you until you check out. Pretty much any time you buy something online with a credit card they do the pre-approval charge, but don't send the actual charge through until it ships.No, at bars (at least where I live), you pay after you consume or right as you're ordering a drink. If you fail to do so, the police will take you for a ride. At hotels you either make a reservation with a fraction or the whole amount of the payment, but they make it pretty clear that they will take the money. As with online purchase (although this will be my first group buy) I have never seen another site who takes your money just as an indicator for interest, and believe me, even the postman knows me by name I have so many packages coming in. This really seems like "We're gonna take your money, just in case you somehow magically go bankrupt and can't pay".
I will certainly agree, however, that Paypal has worded the information terribly and not made it very clear that it's a pre-approval vs an actual charge that has processed.
If you make a reservation online, they require a credit card. When you check in, they require a credit card. Both times they are putting a temporary hold on your account for the entire amount of the stay you have reserved. This is standard practice in the US. I've not had that experience at a bar, but I don't really go to bars all that much.Can you explain how is this technically any different from paying right away? I really don't understand this system. You can't have your money back. You can't use your money in the mean time until the actual payment. This is like the difference between having no bars of gold and having one bar of gold orbiting Earth in outer space. Technically you still have one bar of gold, but it's completely useless.
I see no reason with the way PayPal/Massdrop is doing this. You make a commitment to Massdrop to purchase something, and Massdrop asks PayPal to reserve the amount you said you would pay. This prevents people from changing their mind at the last minute, or take 4 weeks to pay holding up the entire groupbuy.And I have no problem with that, but again, they didn't say "Upon making a commintment to buy, we're going to reserve the needed amount of money from your PayPal account. In the case the buy doesn't make the price drop you waited for, we're going to pay you back your money." No. It said "Don't worry - you won't be charged until the end of the group buy.", and I find this very deceiving. Technically they took the money right away.
As already said, they haven't even charged you yet, just ensuring that they can allocate all the funds for the purchase.
You can still cancel, but it becomes more a matter of negotiating with the vendor and getting them to cancel the transaction on your behalf (if they're willing) usually they'll hang on to a percentage for the inconvenience.I do not wish to, fortunately I am not in the position where I would need this money for the following week, but I can imagine that there are people who thought "Hey, i will get my pay 2 days before the group buy ends and then I will have enough money to pay for it. I'm going to commit to join to show that I'm in!" And suddenly, they don't have money to buy food. Oops.
Equally you can still earn interest etcetera on this money, whereas massdrop do not. The money is still yours, it's just committed.
Technically they took the money right away.
They're reserving the money, it's a pending payment, and depending how your PP account is set up, it might have set a pending payment in your bank account as well. It's just pending, none of the money is actually taken. They reserve the full amount $300 (or w/e) and only charge you the $199 at the end. They do this to ensure that you actually have the funds to pay for it. It's a good business practice, they're not trying to steal your money a week early...Again, I have no problem with this business practice, what I have a problem is is the misinterpretable text about how they will only charge you when the group buy is closed. It didn't say that they will reserve the money, and for me being charged at the end of the deal actually means that I have to pay at the end of the deal. Having my money reserved is very little different from paying right away, as I'm simply stripped from my freedom to use it.
yes back on subject
has anyone found out if the switches they are selling are pcb mount (has the pcb stabilizer tabs/nubs on the bottom of the switch)
i really wouldn't have a problem with a acrylic plate if there was some extra support, if the switches are not PCB mount i worry the acrylic plate isn't good enough.
So we could use pcb OR plate mounted switches if we so choose? If that's the case then I might actually forgo the switch option, and just get some switches from someone in the classifieds.
Another quick question; How many switches do we actually need to fill up the board? I counted 76 on the board, but 77 in the picture. Oh, and the "included"-list lists 88. Just a stupid question that I know the answer to, but feel it's so unclear.
I also think it's interesting how they didn't seem to include how to solder the actual switches in the build guide (unless I'm blind).
But I think you'd have to mod the plate layer a bit to split the thumb keys.
Is there a problem with the plate mount switches because the acrylic case would not be stable enough? I've read the wiki, but this case seems to be a bit out of the ordinary. I don't know yet whether I want PCB or plate mounted switches, can someone explain the reasoning behind each choice? :)
Basically you can have PCB-mount switch or plate-mount or both at the same time. The latter seems to be the case with ErgoDox. Either PCB-mount or plate-mount is already enough for stable work. So if you can find PCB-mount switches, then go for it and they will be supported by both pins inside PCB and plate above and will be extra strong and stable. IMHOOh, I really like this idea! Too much stability and having a second lifeline never hurts. I'm thinking about buying greens, as I feel that my blues are a bit too light, but it's really hard to make the choice without actually trying the switches themselves. :D
think of typing on blacks that clickBasically you can have PCB-mount switch or plate-mount or both at the same time. The latter seems to be the case with ErgoDox. Either PCB-mount or plate-mount is already enough for stable work. So if you can find PCB-mount switches, then go for it and they will be supported by both pins inside PCB and plate above and will be extra strong and stable. IMHOOh, I really like this idea! Too much stability and having a second lifeline never hurts. I'm thinking about buying greens, as I feel that my blues are a bit too light, but it's really hard to make the choice without actually trying the switches themselves. :D
I can make one (yes, one) ghetto green now, how much stiffer should the real greens feel? It's just hard to imagine the forces based on numbers such as 60cN and 80cN.
But I think you'd have to mod the plate layer a bit to split the thumb keys.
When I look at the photo of PCB, it seems that it's already ready for split thumb keys, just have to remap it properly in Teensy probably. But it's better if Dox or someone who designed the board confirms.
I saw that the keycaps went up. Those are super cheap for PBT's.where PBT? think WASD would laser them?
Caps buy is up on MD with blank PBT caps. $41/$37/$35.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap
These keys are made in the USA at a manufacturing facility in Washington State.
Signature Plastics' 30,000 square foot facility is located on 16 acres in rural Whatcom County, approximately 120 miles north of Seattle, Washington.
So would you say it's okay to go with only plate mounted switches?yea its fine
So would you say it's okay to go with only plate mounted switches?yea its fine
but ii prefer dbl mounted whenever possible
PCB mounted with built-in diodes are the best for me. The only kind that can withstand pulling key caps even WITHOUT a plate. Heck, adding LEDs on top of that would make them indestructible :-)lol i dont think you can due to the diode being in there and all
"The keys have a flat profile which means they can be swapped out easily"you realise the keyboard is flat too right?
Noooooooo..... Does this mean that they will be DSA profile? This is a real turnoff for me, on an ergonomic keyboard I would expect ergonomically engineered keycaps.
"The keys have a flat profile which means they can be swapped out easily"
Noooooooo..... Does this mean that they will be DSA profile? This is a real turnoff for me, on an ergonomic keyboard I would expect ergonomically engineered keycaps.
you realise the keyboard is flat too right?Most keyboards are flat, yet it's more comfortable to type on sculpted caps (at least for me). If your hand stays on the home row, it's logical that the rows above and bellow should face the direction of your fingers.
I would assume this would be better for the EDox. I'm getting one set and using my own cherry caps to see which is better.In the sense that they can simply mass produce the same key - yes, it makes their job much easier. But this matter should have been put up to vote on massdrop.
I hope the keycap at thumb cluster are Slanted/Controured like Kinesis. Based on my experience on Kinesis (Slanted/Contoured) and Maltron (Same height DSA), Same height on these keys will make them awkward to type on. You might mistype more oftennope their not their all flat
Guess I will swap them out with my spare Kinesis ABS caps then. :(I hope the keycap at thumb cluster are Slanted/Controured like Kinesis. Based on my experience on Kinesis (Slanted/Contoured) and Maltron (Same height DSA), Same height on these keys will make them awkward to type on. You might mistype more oftennope their not their all flat
ill probably be getting WASD Caps to i can get my layout on it once i decide what it isGuess I will swap them out with my spare Kinesis ABS caps then. :(I hope the keycap at thumb cluster are Slanted/Controured like Kinesis. Based on my experience on Kinesis (Slanted/Contoured) and Maltron (Same height DSA), Same height on these keys will make them awkward to type on. You might mistype more oftennope their not their all flat
Btw, they said they will add international shipping costs later today. But if I see the ten dollars to ship to Canada, I wonder how much it will be to Germany... :(not cheaps wouldnt be cheap for me to do really either
Btw, they said they will add international shipping costs later today. But if I see the ten dollars to ship to Canada, I wonder how much it will be to Germany... :(not cheaps wouldnt be cheap for me to do really either
Massdrop assembly time lapse video!that is not very useful in any way...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHr-HtX-aaA&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHr-HtX-aaA&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
I think you can see the aluminium look better than in the picture. It seems to be more shiny than I initially thought.Massdrop assembly time lapse video!that is not very useful in any way...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHr-HtX-aaA&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHr-HtX-aaA&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
I think you can see the aluminium look better than in the picture. It seems to be more shiny than I initially thought.
I'm interested in this but I'd like to see what people think of it, and I can't afford $200 right now. I also wouldn't know what switch to choose because I've only tried one type, and it is my simple alps board.
Will it possibly be available again in the future, or be developed more? Great work, it looks awesome!
Also, no function keys? why not?
No function keys because the keyboard is multi layered. That is, there are "fn" keys that allow you to access secondary/tertiary layers for things like numpad etc.
As of this writing, macro capability is not in the firmware, but I believe that it will be in the cards at a later date.
Cheers,
I'm interested in this but I'd like to see what people think of it, and I can't afford $200 right now. I also wouldn't know what switch to choose because I've only tried one type, and it is my simple alps board.
You can order it without switches ($44 cheaper) so hopefully it will be only $155 and decide later on switches and keycaps. This way you'll have more options (reds, browns) that aren't offered here, and will have time to raise some more funds for those parts.QuoteWill it possibly be available again in the future, or be developed more?
It might be available in the future, but it will probably be more expensive since the quantities ordered will be lower.
My guess it that the thing that will developed more is the firmware.
Basically, if you really like it and think you might be miserable if you miss it, get it during this GB, otherwise wait :-)
Does anyone know if the keycap gb on massdrop if for one ergo dox hand or both ergodox hands (ie. do you have to buy 2 sets or 1 set of keycaps to outfit the left and the right hand of the ergodox)?It would be very dumb if it would be for one hand only.
Does anyone know if the keycap gb on massdrop if for one ergo dox hand or both ergodox hands (ie. do you have to buy 2 sets or 1 set of keycaps to outfit the left and the right hand of the ergodox)?It would be very dumb if it would be for one hand only.
Does anyone know if the keycap gb on massdrop if for one ergo dox hand or both ergodox hands (ie. do you have to buy 2 sets or 1 set of keycaps to outfit the left and the right hand of the ergodox)?It would be very dumb if it would be for one hand only.
Yeah I agree. But look at the pic on massdrop's site....it's only the pic of one hand. Plus the description doesn't mention how many keycaps you are getting.
Be aware that if you brush it yourself, you'll most likely (almost certainly) lift of the clear anodising that one hopes will have been applied.Aluminium anodyzing oxidizes the aluminium, this protective layer helps to make it strong. One of the purposes of the anodyzing is to make the oxide layer thicker, for better scratch resistance, etc. If you remove it (by brushing or whatever) it'll naturally re-form a thin oxide layer that with thicken with time as diffusion occurs, though it'll not be as thick as an anodyzed layer. In my experience, the impurities in the air are not sufficient to discolour the aluminium when this happens.
Since we don't know exactly which aluminium alloy they've used (?) we can't be sure, but assume the worst, that it will react with oxygen, sulphur or both and will start to show a patina. Aluminium oxidises, it just doesn't form a corrosive oxide such as rust, but a pacification layer, however, it isn't always pretty.
Or it could be fine.
i really hope someone has a key-cap group buy or something with double shots with cool design or something, almost want to figure out how to do it myself, i really don't think i can do the blanks and i'm not impressed with wasd,. Still getting the blanks but i may have to make labels to learn like training wheels.Same here. I will join the Massdrop blank key cap group buy, but for the long run I really want some labeled key caps.
Be aware that if you brush it yourself, you'll most likely (almost certainly) lift of the clear anodising that one hopes will have been applied.
Since we don't know exactly which aluminium alloy they've used (?) we can't be sure, but assume the worst, that it will react with oxygen, sulphur or both and will start to show a patina. Aluminium oxidises, it just doesn't form a corrosive oxide such as rust, but a pacification layer, however, it isn't always pretty.
Or it could be fine.
1.5 afaikthanks im going to try to make a template to design layouts on easier
i know someone said wasd was willing to do some ergodox thing too, and that's great, they are super quick with their custom stuff, great support, great site, good colors, highly suggested seller but i'm just not impressed with wasd key-caps feel personally, maybe if they started doing pbt but the problem is they are as slippery new as my kinesis freestyle caps are after 3 years of constant use.Embrace the slipperiness. Slippery keycaps are your friend ;D
i have those types of hands that sweat horribly and i must sweat acidIt sounds to me like you have the exact same hands as I have.
because pretty much all my printed keycaps, even on my new boards, are either faded or completely gone hence why i want dysub or double shot.How long did your WASD keycaps last before the legends were destroyed?
How long did your WASD keycaps last before the legends were destroyed?
Or did you not really type on the WASD keycaps due to the "slipperiness"?
Did some basic layout jizzle jazzle mish mash and turns out i need 2 Fn layers and most of my keys will have 4 legends
so 3 for alphas 4 for some others and on 1-2 for some.Did some basic layout jizzle jazzle mish mash and turns out i need 2 Fn layers and most of my keys will have 4 legends
So many legends! I would go insane!
1.5 afaikthanks im going to try to make a template to design layouts on easier
Edit: never mind i found something I can just modify on their webpage
Is it possible that Massdrop has deleted my account? I can not sign in, and when I try to reset my password, it tells me that there is no account tied to my email address.
I was literally about to make this post. Exactly the same for me.This is especially annoying since they basically have my money.
I was literally about to make this post. Exactly the same for me.This is especially annoying since they basically have my money.
I have more faith in them. They've done multiple successful group buys. I don't think they'd spend the time and effort with vendors/fabricators/support to walk away with only $20k. /myOpinionNo, I trust them as well, it just occured to me that the business model and the way transactions are handled are pretty optimal for obtaining unearned money. I'm taking notes in case I want to create my own scam site later in life. ;D :))
Ergodox complete! Just put in the last order myself :Di can still order on right i finally got money.
Ergodox complete! Just put in the last order myself :Di can still order on right i finally got money.
gotcha i assumed that but people always make it sound like their out.Ergodox complete! Just put in the last order myself :Di can still order on right i finally got money.
Yes the buy is still running, but its at the lowest price point now.
I cannot wait for your template, you always have such good ideas for what to put on the function layer.1.5 afaikthanks im going to try to make a template to design layouts on easier
Edit: never mind i found something I can just modify on their webpage
I just noticed something. If you look at this picture, the keyboard stands on the screw nut?yep thats what it looks like. Im going to have to find some thick feet and apply some egrips to them
Not really good for the desk.. I assume this is the same for the acrylic case?
So after all I do need feet! :(Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/massdropinc/product-images/product-82-rudi.jpg)
So after all I do need feet! :(
I am in the process of uploading my blank templates here (http://tinyurl.com/a9ckj2b), feel free to use them for your own planning.
Yeah, I just had the same thought. Chamfering should be possible, even with the acrylic case. I just have to be careful.So after all I do need feet! :(
I was thinking about getting different screws, and chamfering the holes (as kerplop suggested) - or just putting some sugru (or oogoo, or just silicon sealant - or yoga matt.. lol) over them :) .
thanks man, just realized your the one that I was told to get in contact with about firmware. im looking to get hasu's firmware ported to the ErgoDoxSo after all I do need feet! :(
I was thinking about getting different screws, and chamfering the holes (as kerplop suggested) - or just putting some sugru (or oogoo, or just silicon sealant - or yoga matt.. lol) over them :) .I am in the process of uploading my blank templates here (http://tinyurl.com/a9ckj2b), feel free to use them for your own planning.
If it helps, the original template file (drawn in Inkscape), and the QWERTY layout file (generated from that) are attached :) . I posted these before, but they might have gotten buried in the thread... The generated template files for all the current default layouts are in the .zip files with the binaries here (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8bbol6fkvydmtmg/QLudrdEyc9).
Hi WhiteFireDragon,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHr-HtX-aaA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHr-HtX-aaA)
This is aluminum 5052 with a raw finish. We prefer to keep all the Q&A on Massdrop so everyone who's interested in the ErgoDox can have the benefit of seeing the discourse right on the group buy page.
thanks man, just realized your the one that I was told to get in contact with about firmware. im looking to get hasu's firmware ported to the ErgoDox
NKRO, media keys, mouse buttons, and i believe mouse control :D I would like all those things in my ErgoDoxthanks man, just realized your the one that I was told to get in contact with about firmware. im looking to get hasu's firmware ported to the ErgoDox
np :)
It shouldn't be too hard to port, if you know about such things. From looking into it briefly, it looks like you'd want to implement code for common/keymap.h (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/common/keymap.h), common/led.h (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/common/led.h), and common/matrix.h (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/common/matrix.h), in a folder in the keyboard subdir (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/keyboard). There are other keyboard implementations in that folder to serve as examples, and my controller init and matrix scanning code (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/tree/master/src/keyboard/ergodox/controller) (and maybe my simple I2C (aka TWI) implementation (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/tree/master/src/lib/twi)) should prove useful regarding how the ErgoDox is set up (and how to use I2C).
Just out of curiosity, why are you looking into porting? I can think of a couple good technical and social reasons one might want to, but I'm still curious :)
NKRO, media keys, mouse buttons, and i believe mouse control :D I would like all those things in my ErgoDox
Ill have to see if I can find someone to port it for me then as I have nearly 0 experience codingNKRO, media keys, mouse buttons, and i believe mouse control :D I would like all those things in my ErgoDox
Lol, yup, stuff I won't have time for for a while - thanks :)
Also, I'm on my phone right now, so I can't really link, and I'm sure you'd find it soon anyway, but.. I forgot to mention my matrix.h, in the dir above the controller files - you'll probably need that too, as it defines the mapping from actual key positions to positions in the matrix.
Happy porting!
Ill have to see if I can find someone to port it for me then as I have nearly 0 experience codingNKRO, media keys, mouse buttons, and i believe mouse control :D I would like all those things in my ErgoDox
Lol, yup, stuff I won't have time for for a while - thanks :)
Also, I'm on my phone right now, so I can't really link, and I'm sure you'd find it soon anyway, but.. I forgot to mention my matrix.h, in the dir above the controller files - you'll probably need that too, as it defines the mapping from actual key positions to positions in the matrix.
Happy porting!
No time with buildingIll have to see if I can find someone to port it for me then as I have nearly 0 experience codingNKRO, media keys, mouse buttons, and i believe mouse control :D I would like all those things in my ErgoDox
Lol, yup, stuff I won't have time for for a while - thanks :)
Also, I'm on my phone right now, so I can't really link, and I'm sure you'd find it soon anyway, but.. I forgot to mention my matrix.h, in the dir above the controller files - you'll probably need that too, as it defines the mapping from actual key positions to positions in the matrix.
Happy porting!
We all need to start somewhere Prof.!
Cheers,
I made a spreadsheet in Gnumeric to make layout tinkering easier -- e.g., this is the layout I've just about settled on for my Layer 0:Thank for the file!
(Attachment Link)
Why the Tab and Shift in the middle? Because Alt-Tab! :) The other middle keys on the right-hand half are Lock toggles because that's where the indicator LEDs are. I might yet want to put Shift in both lower-middle keys to try thumb-shifting anyway, and move Caps Lock elsewhere if the indicator LED status can be independent of the key it's under.
Anyway, here's my spreadsheet file in Gnumeric and Excel formats:
Notice I duplicated the layout template to additional blank worksheet tabs for Layers 1-3, so you can just switch between sheets within the file to tinker with your desired layout on each layer. ;D
I made a spreadsheet in Gnumeric to make layout tinkering easier -- e.g., this is the layout I've just about settled on for my Layer 0:
(Attachment Link)
Why the Tab and Shift in the middle? Because Alt-Tab! :) The other middle keys on the right-hand half are Lock toggles because that's where the indicator LEDs are. I might yet want to put Shift in both lower-middle keys to try thumb-shifting anyway, and move Caps Lock elsewhere if the indicator LED status can be independent of the key it's under.
Anyway, here's my spreadsheet file in Gnumeric and Excel formats:
Notice I duplicated the layout template to additional blank worksheet tabs for Layers 1-3, so you can just switch between sheets within the file to tinker with your desired layout on each layer. ;D
Ill have to see if I can find someone to port it for me then as I have nearly 0 experience coding
Just FYI, the default shift keys are also set up so that when you press both at the same time, it activates CapsLock - if that makes a difference :) .
Am i the only one that wants to embed a HHKB style arrow keys in the ergodox LOL
Am i the only one that wants to embed a HHKB style arrow keys in the ergodox LOL
Nope! I already did something similar with bpiphany's filco liberation controller in my filco--arrow keys right on right-hand home row. Planning on doing the same for ergoDox :D
I made a spreadsheet in Gnumeric to make layout tinkering easier -- e.g., this is the layout I've just about settled on for my Layer 0:
(Attachment Link)
Why the Tab and Shift in the middle? Because Alt-Tab! :) The other middle keys on the right-hand half are Lock toggles because that's where the indicator LEDs are. I might yet want to put Shift in both lower-middle keys to try thumb-shifting anyway, and move Caps Lock elsewhere if the indicator LED status can be independent of the key it's under.
Anyway, here's my spreadsheet file in Gnumeric and Excel formats:
Notice I duplicated the layout template to additional blank worksheet tabs for Layers 1-3, so you can just switch between sheets within the file to tinker with your desired layout on each layer. ;D
Just FYI, the default shift keys are also set up so that when you press both at the same time, it activates CapsLock - if that makes a difference :) . Also, the LED indicators are completely independent of what keys are assigned where, so that won't be a problem. Getting a Fn-lock key to activate an LED is a bit advanced, but it shouldn't be hard... to skip the long explanation, you'll probably have to write a quick wrapper function for the LED control function, so that you can call it within a macro key - or wait till the UI comes out, and we might remember to put the option in there (I'd say we *would*, but it could be a while from now...). Or ask when you have the rest of the layout working after the buy, and I'll see if it's as easy as I think :) .Ill have to see if I can find someone to port it for me then as I have nearly 0 experience coding
Mmm... and this wouldn't be the easiest place to start (lol, my firmware exists, more or less, because I didn't know enough to port hasu's to the ErgoDox when I started). Now that I looked at it a bunch, I'm slightly tempted to try - but there are likely to be parts that aren't so fun (adapting yet another default layout, for everyone to use as a template, for instance), and I still have a bunch of improvements I want to make to my own, so I hope you understand if it's rather far down on my list... If anyone else wants to try they're quite welcome to of course :)
As for porting another firmware ic07, you sure you don't have enough on your plate yet?
Here's my layout:
Yeah sh = shift. So "sh {[" corresponds to holding shift and pressing the {[ key on a standard keyboard, resulting in {
Just FYI, the default shift keys are also set up so that when you press both at the same time, it activates CapsLock - if that makes a difference :) . Also, the LED indicators are completely independent of what keys are assigned where, so that won't be a problem. Getting a Fn-lock key to activate an LED is a bit advanced, but it shouldn't be hard...
Yeah sh = shift. So "sh {[" corresponds to holding shift and pressing the {[ key on a standard keyboard, resulting in {
Oh okay, thanks. What do the "la" keys do? Hold them to change layers? What is the difference between "la 2 + 2" and "la 2 +- 2"?
Thanks for your help.
Aloisius, you would save a lot of pinky strain by moving a shift key to the thumb cluster, especially since your layout seems to rely heavily on it.
So just curious, what will each of the LEDs be mapped to indicate in the current firmware layouts you're providing? Anything at all, or yet to be determined/implemented?
If I understand correctly, "la" indicates a layer modifier key, and a "+1" would effectively work as a Layer 1 Lock (pushing Layer 1 on top of the layout stack) -- and you'll see in the current default Layer 1 layout that the same key becomes a "-1" to release the lock and return to the previous layer (popping Layer 1 off the layout stack) -- whereas a "+-1" would be a Layer 1 Shift, where Layer 1 is only active while the key is held. If my understanding here is incorrect, this definitely needs clarification.
I'm not quite clear what the first number after the "la" refers to or whether it's related to the layer number being pushed (applied) or popped (removed) -- if so, the first and second numbers might always need to match?
Thanks for the info ic07, I too was wondering about that first number. Is there a limit to the IDs?
20 layers? ErgoL33tDox
With further firmware development, would it be possible to achieve remapping from the keyboard itself (like the Kinesis Advantage does) without flashing new firmware every time?
My idea was, locking layer masks could be used to change the function of just a few keys at a time... Say if you wanted a few things set up one way when you were working in.. I dunno, Word, and another way when using something else. It should also be possible, with a little effort, to use them to emulate firmware level combination keys (though, I don't think there's enough room to emulate chording...). How it'll work out in practice, I'm not sure.
you cant get both cases for one board you would have to resolder/desolder for the different platesAh, but I was talking about full hand and classic case and you are right-for that I would need to desolder.
now that i think about it you might because to use the same plate as they are the same thickness between the 2
The PCB supports PCB mounted switches. The mounting plate supports phantom-style easy switch removal.
I am about to join the Massdrop GB myself, and I am a bit confused about the mounting of the switches:they only have plate mount switches which is fine because there is a plate
As I understand it, the design of the keyboard supports both, PCB- and plate-mounted switches. What are we going to get? From the assembly instructions [1] I get that we have to solder the switches to the PCB - i.e. we will get switches with PCB-mounting pins.
However, dorkvader wrote in his mass email:The PCB supports PCB mounted switches. The mounting plate supports phantom-style easy switch removal.
What exactly does that mean now? Why would I not be able to get the full-hand and classic case and just swap the PCB in between without de-soldering?
EDIT: Also, what color do those LEDs have at the moment? I couldn't find anything on Massdrop's page pertaining to color.
1: https://www.massdrop.com/dox-ergo.php
you cant get both cases for one board you would have to resolder/desolder for the different platesAh, but I was talking about full hand and classic case and you are right-for that I would need to desolder.
now that i think about it you might because to use the same plate as they are the same thickness between the 2
So two keyboards after all
lhere is the current mess revision of my ErgoDox layoutNice blueprint you got there. Since I am used to the truly ergonomic keyboard I will probably have the enter
and yes i know most of this stuff isnt possibly unless i find a way to get hasu's firmware on the thing.
and yes i know most of this stuff isnt possibly unless i find a way to get hasu's firmware on the thing.
Yea I dont regularly use ergonomic keyboards and have mostly non ergonomic so i set it up so it would be semi easy to transition between themlhere is the current mess revision of my ErgoDox layoutNice blueprint you got there. Since I am used to the truly ergonomic keyboard I will probably have the enter
and yes i know most of this stuff isnt possibly unless i find a way to get hasu's firmware on the thing.
and backspace keys in the middle or on the thumbs. Generally don't like pressing keys with my pinky...
Media keys require special handling.
ic07 / Dox/ bpiphany:
Would the controller/firmware somehow be able to support a piezo speaker to emit a click sound (like the Kinesis Advantage, and a few other keyboards do) when a key registers ? If anyone has an idea what mod / extra components might be needed, let me know... I like the audible feedback, but if not possible I might go with cherry MX blues I guess.
We have at least 3 pins not being used on the Teensy in the current design, and 2 of them have PWM. I'd probably try pin PC7 (on TCCR4 for PWM), though PD5 or PD4 might be more convenient if you don't need PWM. And changing main() a bit to run the code to generate a click when a key is pressed shouldn't be hard at all. Others are probably much more knowledgable as to the hardware setup, and how easy/hard it might be to drive a piezo speaker using a Teensy.
PS: Also, be sure to explicitly set the state of whatever pins you do use - IIRC, the init code in the controller .c files touches all the pins, so it'd be better not to count on them starting in any default state.
ic07 / Dox/ bpiphany:
Would the controller/firmware somehow be able to support a piezo speaker to emit a click sound (like the Kinesis Advantage, and a few other keyboards do) when a key registers ? If anyone has an idea what mod / extra components might be needed, let me know... I like the audible feedback, but if not possible I might go with cherry MX blues I guess.
We have at least 3 pins not being used on the Teensy in the current design, and 2 of them have PWM. I'd probably try pin PC7 (on TCCR4 for PWM), though PD5 or PD4 might be more convenient if you don't need PWM. And changing main() a bit to run the code to generate a click when a key is pressed shouldn't be hard at all. Others are probably much more knowledgable as to the hardware setup, and how easy/hard it might be to drive a piezo speaker using a Teensy.
PS: Also, be sure to explicitly set the state of whatever pins you do use - IIRC, the init code in the controller .c files touches all the pins, so it'd be better not to count on them starting in any default state.
Ok ic07,
I just got a "Piezo Mini Buzzer", RadioShack 273-0074 which produces a 4KHz sound as long as you apply DC voltage to it. It supports anywhere from 3 to 16 volts. I hooked it up to pin C7 of my teensy, and used PJRC's blinky sample program to drive it... I just changed (PORTD |= (1<<6)) to (PORTC |= (1<<7)) to drive the appropriate pin instead of the built-in LED of the teensy.
I'll have to find a 2.4KHz buzzer so it sounds closer in pitch to the Kinesis, but the RadioShack one proves the concept.
So it works, no need for PWM or tone libraries. Basically all we need the firmware to do is turn on the voltage to the assigned pin on every keypress, and turn it off after 10 miliseconds or so. Only caveat is the controller shouldn't be sleeping during that time; it should accept the next keypress even if it comes before the buzzer pin voltage is turned off. Also, even if you hold a key down, the click should last the same amount of time and not longer.
Finally, if you press a key, keep it down, and then press another key (like when shifting) both key presses should click. Basically the click should emulate clicky switches.
Is it doable ic07 ? I'm sure we can easily turn on a pin upon any keypress, but how do you turn it off after a fixed amount of miliseconds without sleep() ?
if (is_pressed != was_pressed) {
if (is_pressed) {
...
} else {A UI to remap the keyboard would be great, especially if it could be run locally (not off the Internet). For instance, on my ubuntu machine, I'd love to be able to remap keys or build layouts on a UI (from a locally running webserver, or it could be a TK, or PyQT, or standalone Java application, or whatever), hit a button, and have the UI call the commands to compile as well as call the teensy command-line utility (http://pjrc.com/teensy/loader_cli.html) to load the firmware on the keyboard, all in one shot. That would be almost as good as the instant gratification that on-board remapping provides :-)
It looks like elapsedMillis is something only available in Teensyduino? Even in the Arduino reference (http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/HomePage) I can only find mills() and friends. I'm not using either set of libraries though, which means, if you wish to time things without busy-waiting, you'll need to do something with the Teensy timers directly.
Alternately: If it were me, I'd try reducing the debounce time to 0 (it's currently 5ms), and then just timing the click by busy-waiting with _delay_ms() (in <util/delay.h>). The downside of this is that, when a key is pressed, it will take 10ms *after each key* to detect the next one (instead of only delaying 5ms after each cycle where a keypress was detected, plus ~5ms between cycles, mostly due to I2C). The upside is not having to deal with timers (or pull in Arduino dependencies...), and I think it would be bearable under normal usage.
How about I blindly just turn off the buzzer every 2 cycles of the main loop? That should make any clicks last 6 to 12ms without any busy waits? Anyway, no worries, I'll play with it when I get the keyboard, thank you all!
It looks like elapsedMillis is something only available in Teensyduino? Even in the Arduino reference (http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/HomePage) I can only find mills() and friends. I'm not using either set of libraries though, which means, if you wish to time things without busy-waiting, you'll need to do something with the Teensy timers directly.
Alternately: If it were me, I'd try reducing the debounce time to 0 (it's currently 5ms), and then just timing the click by busy-waiting with _delay_ms() (in <util/delay.h>). The downside of this is that, when a key is pressed, it will take 10ms *after each key* to detect the next one (instead of only delaying 5ms after each cycle where a keypress was detected, plus ~5ms between cycles, mostly due to I2C). The upside is not having to deal with timers (or pull in Arduino dependencies...), and I think it would be bearable under normal usage.
Yeah, now that I look at the page carefully, it is for the Teensyduino. I should have checked the page more thoroughly before assuming the feature was native (especially considering my newness to the whole platform). Oh well, Sorry for getting your hopes up for a (mostly) easy solution sordna! ;) Digging deeper (and likely getting ahead of myself), it seems theoretically possible to use interrupts and timers to do it. Set Timer1 for a given length. Create a TIMER1_COMPA_vect ISR that disables the speaker and the mask for the interrupt. Enable the mask immediately after the speaker has been turned on. Profit? lol...
Also, OrangeJewce, I'm not sure if you've missed it, but you have a PM.
Hey,
Sorry, I have a few to sort through. I'm also working 12 hour days right now, so my ability to make big decisions is impacted by the time I actually get home (And I don't really like answering pms whilst at work.) Not to mention the significant other taking up most of it anyhow. I promise to get to everyone this weekend and thank you for the support. I apologize for the delay in reply to pm.
Cheers,
Zalusithix is quite right. I'd like to get those things into the firmware at some point, if I can, but it'll likely be quite a while before I'm able to try again.ok well can you make the rest work until then?
I am about to join the Massdrop GB myself, and I am a bit confused about the mounting of the switches:As the profosist said, Massdrop will have plate mounted switches. Another member (I believe it was rkinze) said that even with the acrylic plate, the switches should be pretty sturdy, as the stabilizing pins on the PCB-mount switches serve to help orient the switch (so it can't twist). I haven't seen anyone make claims to typing feel though.
As I understand it, the design of the keyboard supports both, PCB- and plate-mounted switches. What are we going to get? From the assembly instructions [1] I get that we have to solder the switches to the PCB - i.e. we will get switches with PCB-mounting pins.
However, dorkvader wrote in his mass email:The PCB supports PCB mounted switches. The mounting plate supports phantom-style easy switch removal.
What exactly does that mean now? Why would I not be able to get the full-hand and classic case and just swap the PCB in between without de-soldering?
EDIT: Also, what color do those LEDs have at the moment? I couldn't find anything on Massdrop's page pertaining to color.
1: https://www.massdrop.com/dox-ergo.php
would some ergodox guy help me defining the keys needed for this http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39603.0 ?
would you prefer blank mods or with legend? if the latter, is there a "default" configuration?
thanks
sorry I thought they were all blank keys. I'll check it out.
sorry I thought they were all blank keys. I'll check it out.
Oh my, I thought you meant just for sizing, not legends. Sorry bout that.
hers min v1.1 iim working on v1.2 as we speak but there will only be small tweaksShow Image(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/ErgoDoxProfv11_zpsd5059e37.png)
you canhers min v1.1 iim working on v1.2 as we speak but there will only be small tweaksShow Image(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/ErgoDoxProfv11_zpsd5059e37.png)
im kind fo digging this but if i am reading correctly you cant do a CTRL+END / CTRL+HOME etc combination with your layout, am i correct?
hers min v1.1 iim working on v1.2 as we speak but there will only be small tweaksShow Image(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/ErgoDoxProfv11_zpsd5059e37.png)
The Control location on the Kinesis layout is very good, trust me. So is the backspace. Do yourself a favor and don't put often use keys in your pinkies.Yes. Save your pinkies!
same herehers min v1.1 iim working on v1.2 as we speak but there will only be small tweaksShow Image(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/TheProfosist/GeekHack/GH-sub-mine/ErgoDoxProfv11_zpsd5059e37.png)
the layout looks very cool.
I wonder how difficult it is to program my own set of keys. I am a non-programmer and may find difficulty implementing my own design.
do some pinky exercises? Idk ive never had a problem with my pinky's though im no speed typer.The Control location on the Kinesis layout is very good, trust me. So is the backspace. Do yourself a favor and don't put often use keys in your pinkies.Yes. Save your pinkies!
Even with Kinesis layout and remap shift to thumb keys. My left pinky still sore. :(
the layout looks very cool.same here
I wonder how difficult it is to program my own set of keys. I am a non-programmer and may find difficulty implementing my own design.
the layout looks very cool.same here
I wonder how difficult it is to program my own set of keys. I am a non-programmer and may find difficulty implementing my own design.
Um, let's try to remove large images from quotes of quotes to avoid all the page scrolling :-)
There has been talk of a web service that will allow you to design and generate your layout... however until that happens, I'm sure many folks here will be willing to compile firmwares for you guys. I plan to compile my own firmware since I'll be using switches with integrated diodes, which need a modification in the code.
To help with custom layouts, at minimum we need a GUI program that allows folks to design the layout and generate the .c file. I think OJ has something for windows. Anyway, if we have any kind of program that generates the layout file, even if there is no web service to generate the firmware, any of us that have a development environment set up would be able to easily compile a firmware for you.
I am about to join the Massdrop GB myself, and I am a bit confused about the mounting of the switches:As the profosist said, Massdrop will have plate mounted switches. Another member (I believe it was rkinze) said that even with the acrylic plate, the switches should be pretty sturdy, as the stabilizing pins on the PCB-mount switches serve to help orient the switch (so it can't twist). I haven't seen anyone make claims to typing feel though.
As I understand it, the design of the keyboard supports both, PCB- and plate-mounted switches. What are we going to get? From the assembly instructions [1] I get that we have to solder the switches to the PCB - i.e. we will get switches with PCB-mounting pins.
However, dorkvader wrote in his mass email:The PCB supports PCB mounted switches. The mounting plate supports phantom-style easy switch removal.
What exactly does that mean now? Why would I not be able to get the full-hand and classic case and just swap the PCB in between without de-soldering?
EDIT: Also, what color do those LEDs have at the moment? I couldn't find anything on Massdrop's page pertaining to color.
1: https://www.massdrop.com/dox-ergo.php
So the Massdrop switches will not have mounting pins, but that's okay if you plan to use the plate, which is included in the $200 full kit (and required for the case, as it is an integral part)
To explain my quote:
In mist plate mounted keyboards, there is no "room" to unclip the top of the switch housing in the mounting plate. To replace a switch, you need to desolder it. If you want to change springs or stems you need to desolder. This plate supports the removal of the switch tops without desoldering (Room has been made in the mounting plate for the switches to unclip) so should you want to replace a defective switch, or change springs or whatever, you can do that.
I am by no means certain, but I'm fairly sure that you'd need to desolder to swap the PCB into a different case like that, though it might be possible to detach the switch-bottoms from the mounting plate after soldering, it' certainly won't be easy.
About the LED's I haven't checked, but I think I read somewhere (on DT) that they are red.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken about something here, I get a little fuzzy this late at night sometimes.
Be careful with your ergodox if you order a metal case. I am not responsible for any damage :-)Anodizing takes care of any potential conductivity problems, and is what I plan on doing with my aluminum version. Other planned mods include countersinking the holes for 100 degree black oxidized torx screws, and relocating the LEDs so they show up through the frame itself. I figure the acrylic is too weak to reliably take the countersinking (heck, even the aluminum might be too thin). As for the LEDs, the acrylic would show any relocation attempts and ruin the clean looks. It might be harder to work with, but aluminum just gives more options for customizing both by being stronger and being opaque so the mods and hack jobs don't show through.
I'm extremely late to this and there's only a few hours to go on the massdrop, as time is pressing would anybody be able to answer any of my questions? Thanks!
1) is there going to be an EU group buy for this?
2) how long is the hand rest on the full length case? (or the length of the whole thing from front to back?
3) are backlit keys an option with this PCB?
4) does the controller support 500hz/1000hz ultrapolling for gamers?
5) if no ultrapolling what might be required to implement this as a feature? would it require an alternative controller?
Careful when drilling acrylic. It can easily crack. And the drill bit can bite into the material and spin the whole piece out of control.
(And no, the keyboard doesn't have N-Key rollover either as per HID specs.)
(And no, the keyboard doesn't have N-Key rollover either as per HID specs.)
The firmware may not, but the KB and controller are capable of it. :)
We will be supplying mylar sheets for insulation between the metal casing and the PCB.
Careful when drilling acrylic. It can easily crack. And the drill bit can bite into the material and spin the whole piece out of control.
I've been using these kind of bits to make 30mm diameter holes in my Kinesis Advantage keyboards, to fit arcade buttons. Will it work on the ErgoDox acrylic case? I was assuming it will work, at least much more easily than on the aluminum case, but now you got me worried! What's your advice?Show Image(http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/335327_lg.jpg)
Woot, I totally missed the ErgoDox group buy on massdrop. :eek: Would have gotten one for sure (more later if satisfactory).
Any ideas if/when the next round will be up? I'm only interested in a complete kit, not individual parts. Ideally including assembly, such as Profosists awesome assembly offer. Anyway, I requested a kit on MD so hopefully will get an email when/if it comes back.
Conclusion. I found that the hole saw and forstner bit each cut flawless holes even right next to the edges of the sheets. The step drill worked fine but I was able to crack the piece if I applied to much pressure. I don't think you will have a problem with the step drill if your careful but would recommend testing your method first on a similar piece of material if possible.
Conclusion. I found that the hole saw and forstner bit each cut flawless holes even right next to the edges of the sheets.
I'm guessing here but I doubt they'd send in the orders for the pcb and cases straightaway given how they still have about 3 days before the pcb and case only buys are closed. So I'm guessing at least 3-4 days more before we hear anything regarding payment.
Before the group buy ended, I talked to one of their reps about fulfillment duration and they said after the orders are sent in, it would likely be about 2 weeks before the items will be ready, 3 weeks if the schedule isn't met. Then they'll have to start sorting and packaging the items into kits and finally sending them out. Seeing the size of the order, I doubt we'll hear anything before a month is up.
Be aware this is just a guess from the bits of information I got here and there. Hopefully they would be able to give us a faster delivery time.
Any chance of reopening the group buy for the kit again (or having another), given the board and other part GBs are still going on? I missed it by a day, geekhack notifications weren't getting to me for some reason for messages or this thread. Sigh...
Also I'm considering just getting the case, pcb, keys, and keycaps, but at a rough guess that puts me at 196 (assuming I only need one set of keycaps and not two, that part wasn't clear on the MD page), plus the need for the teensy, i/o expander, leds, and diodes (with a handful of other small parts) plus shipping for all those things (sigh again...). Am I missing anything?
Why don't you send them an email or talk to them on live chat? They might allow extra orders, I'm sure they wouldn't mind the extra profit and besides they haven't ordered the parts yet since they have other GBs going on for the parts.
Why don't you send them an email or talk to them on live chat? They might allow extra orders, I'm sure they wouldn't mind the extra profit and besides they haven't ordered the parts yet since they have other GBs going on for the parts.
I just did, and a Will there was very, very kind and was able to add my order to the group buy. I hope I don't cause a sort of "run on the bank" in relating this. I really very much appreciate their flexibility in this case. I would say try talking to them on live chat. Be nice!
...get tossed in the garbage some day.
Funny guy, you!...get tossed in the garbage some day.
Dude, you named your car that too?!
You would buy it at massdrop.com
You need to create an account, and contact them to participate, since officially it's over.
On the same site you can purchase assembly service, the deal is still active for 5 more days:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-assembly
I believe this page doesn't need an account to see it:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/assembly.php
Woot, I totally missed the ErgoDox group buy on massdrop. :eek: Would have gotten one for sure (more later if satisfactory).
Any ideas if/when the next round will be up? I'm only interested in a complete kit, not individual parts. Ideally including assembly, such as Profosists awesome assembly offer. Anyway, I requested a kit on MD so hopefully will get an email when/if it comes back.
Since they have group buys going on, for the various parts, that are not over yet, I suspect they _might_ be able to accommodate an order for a complete keyboard, so ask them. Even the Profosist's group buy still has 8 days to go.
So basically the better part of a month to get my GUI code functional. That should probably be enough for me to at least get basic functionality out of it assuming I don't get too sidetracked on the front end - and no unforeseen problems crop up.
I never got a response back from OrangeJewce, so I'm just trucking ahead on my own in my free time. Worst case basis, we end up with multiple options. ;)
Well, mapping JavaScript key codes to USB key codes, and then mapping those USB key codes to visual labels was... fun. Nothing beats manually editing 200+ item arrays! ;) At least I shouldn't have to convert them again at the back end. Just pass the raw key codes on and skip the human friendly defines used in the current files.
Unfortunately, however, there's no way to differentiate between left and right modifiers in JavaScript, so users will have to change them manually. Likewise, Print Screen appears to be impossible to capture. (And by manually, I mean having to use the GUI to pick out a function for the key. The current quick mode is just clicking on a key, hitting the button the keyboard you want, clicking on the next key, etc. Can load out a layer in seconds.)
A loaded layer pic is attached with key shaders enabled. For some reason, Chrome renders text a bit wobbly on the diagonals, but there's not much I can do about that. It probably has something to do with the way Chrome handles the CSS scaling. USB key codes won't be placed at the bottom of keys in the real version, but they're there right now as both debug and for the fact that I'm not sure *what* I'll put there :)) For layer keys, the top and bottom of the key represent key-up and key-down states respectively. For transparent keys, the transparency label will be there to further distinguish them from active keys in normal layer configuration. For normal keys though, I guess the bottom will just be blank.
Does the current PCB layout allow for adding LEDs to all keys? If not, would there be a way to add in additional LEDs another way?the pcb doesn't support LEDs for the rest of the switches other than those 3 on extreme side of each board by design afaik. More knowledgeable person should be able to answer the second part of your qns.
...but a certain admin over there just kept on saying things that compelled me to respond.
Hi Tensor, welcome to GH!
Did you get the other components (teensy, diodes, LEDs, IO expander, connectors, cables, etc) ? I wonder if there's a one-stop-shop that has ALL the electronic parts (except maybe for the teensy), anyone know?
Hi Tensor, welcome to GH!
Did you get the other components (teensy, diodes, LEDs, IO expander, connectors, cables, etc) ? I wonder if there's a one-stop-shop that has ALL the electronic parts (except maybe for the teensy), anyone know?
Ordered the IO expander, USB female, male parts and the 3.5mm 4-pole from digikey, since they are a bit of a pain to find elsewhere. I expect to be shafted up the ass with shipping charges.
Already have two teensy v2 (and two v3), diodes are ordered, LEDs I have a ton-load, though I have to check that they are T1s 3mms. I figured I try to hack in a 5mm T1 RGB LED and have configurable lights ;)
The only thing left is the housing itself, which I have no idea where I will source it from. Need to check a few places, I would very much like to try a housing made from wood, just for the fun of it.
You can order a Shapeways case directly from my shapeways profile.
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Dox (http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Dox)
It's a bit expensive but I've been using 2 of them for the last 9 months and I love them!
Hi Tensor, welcome to GH!
Did you get the other components (teensy, diodes, LEDs, IO expander, connectors, cables, etc) ? I wonder if there's a one-stop-shop that has ALL the electronic parts (except maybe for the teensy), anyone know?
Ordered the IO expander, USB female, male parts and the 3.5mm 4-pole from digikey, since they are a bit of a pain to find elsewhere. I expect to be shafted up the ass with shipping charges.
Already have two teensy v2 (and two v3), diodes are ordered, LEDs I have a ton-load, though I have to check that they are T1s 3mms. I figured I try to hack in a 5mm T1 RGB LED and have configurable lights ;)
The only thing left is the housing itself, which I have no idea where I will source it from. Need to check a few places, I would very much like to try a housing made from wood, just for the fun of it.
You can order a Shapeways case directly from my shapeways profile.
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Dox (http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Dox)
It's a bit expensive but I've been using 2 of them for the last 9 months and I love them!
That's what webwit wanted
just popping in to congratulate everyone on a successful project. hopefully everything goes well and we can revisit the design for refinements and a round 2 once v1's popularity blows up :)Thanks a lot, but I have to spread the props to bphiphany for the mirror PCBs, ic07 for the firmware and litster for the layered acrylic case. And everyone who supported the project!
eta: oh, and HUGE PROPS TO DOX for driving this, doing most if not all the hard work, and undeservedly taking everyone's **** along the way. *cue wayne's world 'we're not worthy!'*
Bookmarked! But first I need to check out a local 3D printer, since I'd like to try and keep the costs down at this point (doubt I will succeed). It's gotten a bit out of control toward the end ;D Though I doubt his prices will be lower than shapeways.
Never saw you mention which version you are using, the flat, sloped or double sloped? It's a person preference, but I still like to get some information how they compare to each other :) Though creating just the slopes and attaching them to the flat case would seem to be the best way forward for this, since that leaves a few doors opened.
Edit:
I am looking forward to ditching the MS Ergonomic 4000 for your keyboard design. Should be a whole different world of ergonomics, especially with the mechanical switches. :3
Thanks a lot, but I have to spread the props to bphiphany for the mirror PCBs, ic07 for the firmware and litster for the layered acrylic case. And everyone who supported the project!
void local_kbfun_macro00(void) {
_kbfun_press_release(true, _H);
usb_keyboard_send();
_kbfun_press_release(false, _H);
_kbfun_press_release(true, _I);
usb_keyboard_send();
_kbfun_press_release(false, _I);
// ...
}
(You also might need to include some extra headers... see here (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/blob/master/src/lib/key-functions/public/special.c) for some of the key-functions that are already defined).Heer's a link: https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?
It appears you do not need to be logged in to massdrop to play with it. I'll play with it and see if I like it.
You do need to be logged in to download or save your layouts though.
It's based on the ergodox-firmware code in github. Props to us for being awesome.
I never expected MD to do this...very clever indeed.
Who's Ben Blazek? (Is that OrangeJewce?)
Aaaand I highly recommend that everyone goes through http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capsinventory.php in case you want to round out your collection of 1.5x caps, of which you'll need a dozen per board. ;)
and 4 2x caps, and 8 extra 1x if you're using a standard ANSI DCS profile set.
@bisl (but mostly @Zalusithis)
If you want macros before the rewrite is finished, and you're generating C code to compile already anyway, it seems like you could generate new key-functions without much trouble. IIRC they could even be defiend inside the layout file, since it's only function pointers that get referenced outside that anyway. The code would look something likeCode: [Select]void local_kbfun_macro00(void) {(You also might need to include some extra headers... see here (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/blob/master/src/lib/key-functions/public/special.c) for some of the key-functions that are already defined).
_kbfun_press_release(true, _H);
usb_keyboard_send();
_kbfun_press_release(false, _H);
_kbfun_press_release(true, _I);
usb_keyboard_send();
_kbfun_press_release(false, _I);
// ...
}
I never expected MD to do this...very clever indeed.
Yes, what a pleasant surprise! Kudos to them for actually becoming contributors to the project! In stark contrast, TrulyErgonomic still doesn't have their long promised overdue remapping software available.
depending on the form of the chords you envision making, I feel like there's a good chance you could emulate it in a reasonable number of layers... and if you can do it in 10 layers or less (actually... the real limit on layers is much much higher...), you're good :) . What do you think?
What I had in mind was full chording for letters (something like chordmak (http://www.asetniop.com/blog/?p=103)) or some hybrid. But layer-based ghetto chording will have to do. Thanks for all the work you've put into the firmware, it's already awesome.
I completely missed the PBT keycap set. Did anyone order extra?
I know MD had mentioned the possibility of a DCS profile group buy after the DSA completed/shipped. They didn't want to split their current orders between two simultaneous orders.
I'm surprised too... lol. But I think it's pretty cool :-) . Hope you're not disappointed that they got to it before us OJ... And thanks for promoting the idea, even before anyone really cared :-)Considering you don't have anything to judge my experience by other than a few screen caps and some forum comments, I wouldn't underestimate yourself like that. =) I've been away from coding long enough to get rusty - especially on the web side of things. Thankfully this project is well suited to hacking together while I learn the ropes again so to speak. Of course, said hacking is making things so that code cleanup is probably going to take as long as getting it fully functional lol...
@Zalusithix
-------
I'm glad it didn't kill your project - it's looking like yours will be the more technical of the UIs, which I hope/think there will be a good place for. I'm still curious to see how you end up implementing some things.
-------
I thought you might have contemplated doing macros that way in the meantime... You're a more experienced programmer than I, and you seem to have understood the firmware source pretty well, so I hope I don't go about suggesting too many obvious things :-)
#define TEENSY__DRIVE_ROWS 0
#define TEENSY__DRIVE_COLUMNS 1
#define MCP23018__DRIVE_ROWS 1
#define MCP23018__DRIVE_COLUMNS 0
Folks, Kinesis (http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/) can sell you reds as well as brown switches.
PCB files and litster case files added to http://ergodox.org/Downloads.aspx (http://ergodox.org/Downloads.aspx)
PCB files and litster case files added to http://ergodox.org/Downloads.aspx (http://ergodox.org/Downloads.aspx)
Very cool!
[cool-ass stuff here]
The goal is to have a UI preview ready by the end of the weekend. It wont have backend support for saving or anything, but it'll allow people to play with the way the interface works and make suggestions etc.
Right now I'm still missing two controls that will go below the current ones: the manual key function selector and the macro creator. I want to at least get the former working before giving people something to play with. The macro creator isn't quite as important so I wont hold it back if I'm not finished with that part.
I would like to finish the keyboard but my time is very limited, i know the ergodox (http://www.ergodox.org/) have more fans than the key64 (http://www.key64.org/) and it got the interest of the community the key64 fail to achieve; but if someone wants to collaborate with us we need a help with the design of the case
This is awesome! I played around for a couple minutes to kick the tires before bed, and I noticed that in Firefox at least, ; and - couldn't be bound with keystrokes from the keyboard. However, I was able to bind them explicitly with the menus at the bottom.Thanks for pointing that out. Apparently Firefox is using a different key code to represent those keys than either IE or Chrome use. I don't have the ability to check exactly what it's sending right now at work, but I'll fix that when I get home. Pretty much all those key codes have to be mapped manually as there's no direct relationship between JavaScript key codes and USB codes... Heck, there isn't even a sane relation between the JS key codes and char codes. At any rate, it should be a two second fix once I get around to it.
Looks pretty good! Excited for macros.
What does "Fn" mean?
How many switches does the ergodox use?
What does "Fn" mean?
Function
The PCB for the Ergodox shown has the following printed on it: "Components are intended to be placed on the side they are drawn. It is however possible to invert the design. See the webpage for further instructions"
I cant find the instructions for inversion anywhere, but when I get my ergodox, I would prefer to assemble it so that the teensy board is on the Left side. Is this possible and are there plans to write up the instructions to do so?
key64, how does the "Fn0" key work?Hi, you probably already know the answer to your question as in some way the goal of every Fn key is to solve the lack of keys like in a laptop keyboard, the key64 (http://www.key64.org) is so simple in such a way that it removes many of the functional keys and allow them on a second layer (http://www.key64.org/design/the-layout-described#fn-pressed) which is a hardware layer, and a alternate layer (http://www.key64.org/design/the-layout-described#alt-gr-pressed) which is a software layer and is commonly manage through the AltGr/Option key combination and is operating system dependent, with those two options you have enough ways to configure and to type without moving your hands so long from the home row if that is your preference. As a personal preference the second hardware layer in the key64 is for some users who like me are typing regular expression frequently, the fact is that a standard keyboard is so painful as you will have to work with your right pinky too much and is harder to touch type, because of that the second layer is used to type symbols like {[('|&")]} which i removed from the main layer and move them at the home row in the Fn Layer, and the other ones like `~$@\^%*!#-_=+ which are usually typed using shift + <number> are located around too the idea is not to type at the keyboard periphery, so the keyboard should fit nicely from casual users to specialized users, right now i am typing at the key64 prototype and i found that very comfortable to use.
The Teensy, MCP23018, bridges next to the TRRS connectors, and the USB molex connector still need to go on the side they're drawn, don't they? Even if you put all the switches, diodes, and resistors on the other side?
@Peter:
But bpiphany's the one who drew the PCBs, so he's the one who would know such things :-)
But you would need access to the button on the top side to program it.
- The Teensy is simple to put upside down.
nesiax,key64, how does the "Fn0" key work?Hi, you probably already know the answer to your question as in some way the goal of every Fn key is to solve the lack of keys like in a laptop keyboard, the key64 (http://www.key64.org) is so simple in such a way that it removes many of the functional keys and allow them on a second layer (http://www.key64.org/design/the-layout-described#fn-pressed) which is a hardware layer, and a alternate layer (http://www.key64.org/design/the-layout-described#alt-gr-pressed) which is a software layer and is commonly manage through the AltGr/Option key combination and is operating system dependent, with those two options you have enough ways to configure and to type without moving your hands so long from the home row if that is your preference. As a personal preference the second hardware layer in the key64 is for some users who like me are typing regular expression frequently, the fact is that a standard keyboard is so painful as you will have to work with your right pinky too much and is harder to touch type, because of that the second layer is used to type symbols like {[('|&")]} which i removed from the main layer and move them at the home row in the Fn Layer, and the other ones like `~$@\^%*!#-_=+ which are usually typed using shift + <number> are located around too the idea is not to type at the keyboard periphery, so the keyboard should fit nicely from casual users to specialized users, right now i am typing at the key64 prototype and i found that very comfortable to use.
There are other layers too like the numlock layer (http://www.key64.org/design/the-layout-described#num-lock-layer) and the mouse layer (http://www.key64.org/design/the-layout-described#mouse-lock-layer-new) and each of them have a Fn layer too, those two are known as 'switchable layers' that means they change the default layer via a special key combination, this will let you for example change the keyboard distribution like (qwerty, colemak, dvorak) which are the ones the key64 support at this moment and we also have the console key which is the 64th key which is used for debugging the firmware, change keyboard layouts, lock keyboard, send debug commands or whatever you want to program it for.
LAYER QUESTION
Mouse Lock Layer What does the Fn2 key do?
Num Lock Layer What does the Fn1 key do?
- Is it possible to program the keyboard to have a key behave as a 'dead' key?
- What keycap sizes should be used for the keys on the edges of the keyboard? (1.5X, 1.25X, ...)
- Where would you suggest to get affordable keycaps?
- Has the artist who's rendered the frontpage image of the ergodox.org made his/her work available to public? I'm asking because I want to experiment with different colors before ordering the caps.
2. What keycap sizes should be used for the keys on the edges of the keyboard? (1.5X, 1.25X, ...)
3. Where would you suggest to get affordable keycaps?[/li][/list]
Additionally, you might want to have a look at Massdrop's layout configurator (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/), this is currently the simplest way of rebinding keys, although other services are under development, and you can always modify the firmware yourself (github) (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware)
I hope this helps! :)
You could lose your mind.Hm, don't think that'd be that bad. Most of us already have. :))
You could lose your mind.
By this time next week, we hope the first ErgoDox kits will already be in the mail!
So last mass-drop update makes it sound like they could start shipping these end of the week or just a little later. not sure how many they can fulfill each day though.QuoteBy this time next week, we hope the first ErgoDox kits will already be in the mail!
they better damn come, i got to go on an extended business trip the beginning of April, would kill me for it to come in while i'm gone, worse if someone stole the package.
My order arrived !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know. The spherical PBT keycaps are interesting, will see how it goes!
Wow there's 284 requests on massdrop (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox) for a 2nd round of ergodox kits, unbelievable!
Hmm.. That's funny, mine says shipped, but there's no tracking number. Different shipping methods? But it should be here soon enough.. Excited! How did u guys get yours before me?? I only live a day's drive south of them! Lol
Hmm.. That's funny, mine says shipped, but there's no tracking number. Different shipping methods? But it should be here soon enough.. Excited! How did u guys get yours before me?? I only live a day's drive south of them! Lol
Did you order early on in the process? They might be going through the orders in order received I suppose. I was order #1 and mine shipped out tuesday, but like Glod I'm in California on business right now (oddly enough not even that far from them, ha).
Smalls should have mine come Monday.
Cheers,
Smalls should have mine come Monday.
Cheers,
We should NOT have swapped avatars...also, does that mean there won't be your ergodox at the meet OJ?
You were asking him.Smalls should have mine come Monday.
Cheers,
We should NOT have swapped avatars...also, does that mean there won't be your ergodox at the meet OJ?
I don't know. Ask him xD.
Cheers,
You were asking him.Smalls should have mine come Monday.
Cheers,
We should NOT have swapped avatars...also, does that mean there won't be your ergodox at the meet OJ?
I don't know. Ask him xD.
Cheers,
Hehe.You were asking him.Smalls should have mine come Monday.
Cheers,
We should NOT have swapped avatars...also, does that mean there won't be your ergodox at the meet OJ?
I don't know. Ask him xD.
Cheers,
You be trollin, hatin, patrollin tryin to catch me trippin dirty!
Cheers,
Wait so through hole cant be soldered on the opposite side as the diode? So no little tiny, clipped nubs?
Wait so through hole cant be soldered on the opposite side as the diode? So no little tiny, clipped nubs?
All the circuit traces for a given hand are on the underside of that hand's PCB, so the diodes have to be soldered to the underside, same side as where all the switch leads are soldered. However, the thru-hole diodes can't sit on the topside (as originally intended) due to the thickness of the mounting plate causing clearance/spacing issues, so if you use those, you'll have to insert them from the underside and solder them same-side, then clip the excess leads flush with the topside.
That could make replacing a diode tricky if necessary (e.g., you'd need to pre-trim the leads to correct length before soldering), so MD has supplied SMD diodes as an alternative. It occurs to me you could start with thru-holes, then if it turns out you need to replace any after you've already soldered the switches in, use SMDs for the replacements.
Wait so through hole cant be soldered on the opposite side as the diode? So no little tiny, clipped nubs?
All the circuit traces for a given hand are on the underside of that hand's PCB, so the diodes have to be soldered to the underside, same side as where all the switch leads are soldered
... I reckon some folks might start off on the wrong foot.Don't ya mean hand?
LOL!... I reckon some folks might start off on the wrong foot.Don't ya mean hand?
John
I got my kit Wednesday, though I wasn't able to get started until yesterday because of GDC, but I built my ErgoDox in a marathon session last night. Amazingly it worked when I first plugged it in. No shorts or cold solder joints despite not having soldered on a PCB in 15 years. Using it at work today and it's working beautifully.Did they not include screws for the case? :confused:
Here is my layout, mainly based on my TrulyErgonomic setup:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=EAZJPJ&hash=e0e7112679ee8f1e96e61c55778404df
If the F17 and F18 keys seem strange, it's a remnant of my Keyremap4Macbook scripts for the TE. They are for sticky key (3-state toggle) modifiers for my layer 1 and layer 2 mappings. I would like to replicate this functionality in the firmware of the ErgoDox, though I might see if there is some way to still get the growl notifications in OS X for visualizing the modifier state on screen similar to how sticky keys for the standard modifiers are visualized.
My Keyremap4macbook private.xml for Ergodox:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/47685570/private.xml
I did have a couple issues with my MassDrop order. They forgot to put case screws and an I/O expander in my order. I actually had a full compliment of ErgoDox parts lying around already that I had bought shortly after the parts list went up, so I was okay for the I/O expander and I'm just using some extra wire to hold the case together until I can get some screws. MassDrop got back to me pretty quick about the screws so I might have some next week. Probably will try to just pick some up over the weekend if they sell them at a hardware store. I had also happened to have ordered my kit with no electronics for $40 less, but I was charged and sent eletronics anyway. Not too upset over it though. I have been planning to make my own version with a few modifications after I have lived with this one for a while.
Also need to get some rubber feet for the case. It has been sliding around on my desk a bit.
Edit: Forgot to mention that I used through-hole diodes coming up through the board, soldered on the top, snipped close to the board. Worked fine for me. Just pop a few switches in the plate layer and make sure the pins of each switch go through and the feet on the switches can seat on the PCB before you go and solder all the switches in. I put 5 or 6 switches around the edges, checked that they all fit well, and soldered them as anchors before I started putting the rest in.
(Attachment Link)
Good luck with yours everybody!
A handy technique for smd soldering I ended up using was to apply a little solder to one of the pads on the board, then taking the diode with a pair of tweezers, reheat the solder on the board and slide the diode in. Then, apply solder on the other side like normal. One thing to note is that I did end up having quite a few cold joints doing this quickly, so make sure that you examine them carefully and reapply solder as necessary.
I got mine Thursday but I'm starting by grinding, chamfering and polishing the aluminum case first. By then maybe I'll have worked up the courage to try to solder together the electronics.Are you documenting the process? I'm planning on doing similar, but have no experience working with aluminum.
I got mine Thursday but I'm starting by grinding, chamfering and polishing the aluminum case first. By then maybe I'll have worked up the courage to try to solder together the electronics.Are you documenting the process? I'm planning on doing similar, but have no experience working with aluminum.
Until the second group buy, or most likely 2-3 weeks when many GH users realize that this was not the keyboard for them and they are running "low" on funds.
Until the second group buy, or most likely 2-3 weeks when many GH users realize that this was not the keyboard for them and they are running "low" on funds.
Not for them? How so?
It's nice to see pictures and think you like a keyboard but until you actually type on a keyboard for a few weeks, you won't actually know if the keyboard will fit you.
Can't we have a blank DCS keycap set group buy? I don't think Massdrop is going to make one...
A kinesis/ Ergodox/ etc GB of blank PBT DSA caps would be pretty sweet. I wonder how many of the ergo guys would be into that.
Blank PBT DSA caps. Wasn't there a massdrop for that? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap
Blank PBT DSA caps. Wasn't there a massdrop for that? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap
Yes?
So... I was speaking about a group buy for flat profile keys of that style with PBT plastic for other ergonomic keyboards, using the Massdrop DSA set as an example...
Until the second group buy, or most likely 2-3 weeks when many GH users realize that this was not the keyboard for them and they are running "low" on funds.From my point of view the success or failure when using the ergodox is secondary and only time will tell you if that solve your requirement for a keyboard, perhaps the commercial options around are better ? i don't think so; what is is really important is what people have done : collaborate together on a common goal, that's the most important thing, people join and share their experience, skills and knowledge for the benefit of a community ; for me the best part is yet to come when people start to assembly the keyboard and start to mod it to their needs, just the fact of having a programmable controller gives you a huge competitive advantage over the commercial options because they are closed source and you can't change it to behave the way you want.
Just got home this morning to find my box at home! Very excited.
One question: the surface mount diodes aren't colorfully marked, so it's tough to determine how to orient them just by using the instructional photos. When looking at the switch holes "right side up" (i.e. diode contacts on "bottom") should the print on the diode be right side up, or upside down?
That's a very confusing way to go by. Just pick up the surface mount diodes with tweezers out of the peeled container as you solder them... the end pointing to the perforated side of the plastic container, is the cathode, ie the end that should point to the square solder pad. There is a very fine line marking the cathode, but it's hard to see, so use the container holes as a guide when you take them out. If you spill them, just remember, the end that has the fine line goes to the square solder pad.
And make sure to solder them on the underside of the PCB (the opposite side from the switches and other components).
Wow, I'm typing this on my ergodox :-) Dvorak layout of course.
Mark from Massdrop:
"@Mike, the aluminum cases won't be available this time around. Our case manufacturer mis-estimated the time (and cost) it would take to build them, as a result it took a lot longer and cost them a lot more to make them. The re-quoted cost for offering them again was more than double the last time."
I actually wouldn't have a hard time believing it was due also in part to the machining problems they ran into with the aluminum. Others have reported that there are some precision issues with the aluminum cases, and mine are no exception--they required quite a bit of dremeling to fit. With my acrylic cases though, they just slid right in; perfect fit first time.You scare me. Now I think about the faults mine is going to have.
So yeah, the aluminum cases look bad ass, but you have to work for it. I'm bet MD's concern for quality control played a part too.
You scare me. Now I think about the faults mine is going to have.
D:
Thanks Sordna for the firmware help!
It's a heavy beast. Nice and cool on the palms:
Massdrop just started a new round for the ErgoDox. So if you missed it last time, now's your chanceThanks for the heads up. Apparently when you have not logged in more than 30 days, SMF stops notifying of Threads you are subscribed at, so I totally missed the first GB. I seriously depend on that feature, since emails is my main method of communication, and todo list.
--- ../../src/keyboard/ergodox/controller/teensy-2-0--led.h 2013-04-01 15:06:12.000000000 -0700
+++ ./keyboard/ergodox/controller/teensy-2-0--led.h 2013-04-02 22:23:58.000000000 -0700
@@ -30,6 +30,8 @@
#define _kb_led_3_set(n) (OCR1C = (uint8_t)(n))
#define _kb_led_3_set_percent(n) (OCR1C = (uint8_t)((n) * 0xFF))
+ #define _kb_led_4_on() (DDRD |= (1<<5))
+ #define _kb_led_4_off() (DDRD &= ~(1<<5))
#define _kb_led_all_on() do { \
_kb_led_1_on(); \
--- ../../src/main.c 2013-04-01 15:06:12.000000000 -0700
+++ ./main.c 2013-04-02 22:42:30.000000000 -0700
@@ -82,12 +82,16 @@ int main(void) {
#define is_pressed main_arg_is_pressed
#define was_pressed main_arg_was_pressed
for (row=0; row<KB_ROWS; row++) {
+ if (row == 0)
+ _kb_led_4_off();
+
for (col=0; col<KB_COLUMNS; col++) {
is_pressed = (*main_kb_is_pressed)[row][col];
was_pressed = (*main_kb_was_pressed)[row][col];
if (is_pressed != was_pressed) {
if (is_pressed) {
+ _kb_led_4_on();
layer = main_layers_peek(0);
main_layers_pressed[row][col] = layer;
} else {
Hey folks. I'm from Canada, and just got my ergodox kits today.
Can't wait to get it all hooked up. :)
Have a good day.
-Shawn
The aluminum case definitely needs to be anodized, it is raw, and unfinished and I could definitely see someone getting a splinter because of it... Hopefully the pcb will still fit in the case afterwards.
I was surprised by how sharp the raw edges were. You will probably want to do some work on the case even before it's anodized.
It's my understanding that anodizing requires good prep work because it will actually accentuate any flaws in the surface.
(Attachment Link)
I began some refining on one of the cases and what a difference. I would recommend everyone countersink the top layer and use flathead screws.
It was easy to do with a simple countersink and looks and feels much better.
If a whole column is out, my guess would be a Teensy pin isn't making a good connection, or there's a break somewhere in that column.
The aluminum case definitely needs to be anodized, it is raw, and unfinished and I could definitely see someone getting a splinter because of it... Hopefully the pcb will still fit in the case afterwards.
I was surprised by how sharp the raw edges were. You will probably want to do some work on the case even before it's anodized.
It's my understanding that anodizing requires good prep work because it will actually accentuate any flaws in the surface.
(Attachment Link)
I began some refining on one of the cases and what a difference. I would recommend everyone countersink the top layer and use flathead screws.
It was easy to do with a simple countersink and looks and feels much better.
I began some refining on one of the cases and what a difference. I would recommend everyone countersink the top layer and use flathead screws.Some kind of small tutorial would be really nice for us who have not worked with metal that much before. :)
It was easy to do with a simple countersink and looks and feels much better.
I began some refining on one of the cases and what a difference. I would recommend everyone countersink the top layer and use flathead screws.
It was easy to do with a simple countersink and looks and feels much better.
I also don't have a solder suck, only some copper braid which is apparently like the crappy way to attempt to remove solder. I haven't had any luck trying to desolder the I/O expander so I can try resoldering it. Any tips on how to desolder without a solder suck and with only copper braid available?
Did you bridge the two pads at the top left, next to the capacitor?
Does anyone know if the Litster case design on the ergodox site the same template that the massdrop gb used?
I am really surprised no one has put anime girls into that big-clear acrylic hand portion.
would've thought that's the first thing they'd do.. with all the miku-s and pokemons.
I am really surprised no one has put anime girls into that big-clear acrylic hand portion.
would've thought that's the first thing they'd do.. with all the miku-s and pokemons.
Sounds cool, but would take a lot of effort to cut it to fit around the keys.
I am really surprised no one has put anime girls into that big-clear acrylic hand portion.
would've thought that's the first thing they'd do.. with all the miku-s and pokemons.
Sounds cool, but would take a lot of effort to cut it to fit around the keys.
I think tp4tissue was thinking of the full-hand version...
Giving it a first spin now and the first thing that I notice is that the thumb keys are much further away than on the Kinesis.I was afraid of that. Have you tried using the innermost key on the bottom row as a thumbkey? I wonder if an off-center 1.25 Alt key from a G81-3000 keyboard would fit there..
Giving it a first spin now and the first thing that I notice is that the thumb keys are much further away than on the Kinesis. I've got pretty small hands so it's quite a stretch for me. I feel much more comfortable when shifting my fingers inwards one column but then all the lettering would be messed up.
I am really surprised no one has put anime girls into that big-clear acrylic hand portion.
would've thought that's the first thing they'd do.. with all the miku-s and pokemons.
Sounds cool, but would take a lot of effort to cut it to fit around the keys.
Been using mine for about three days and muscle memory is finally starting to kick in. Still get certain button presses wrong and definitely not as fast as I was with a traditional layout, but I can definitely feel the difference in the decrease in the amount of finger movement and the fact that I probably never did learn how to touch type in the proper way in the past.
The innermost bottom row key is indeed a very good thumb button. For a while I used it as a spacebar until I realised that if I put it as a crutch there I'd never get used to using the actual thumb button as a spacebar. Now it serves nicely as a ctrl button on the left and a shift button on the right - the position of the qwerty "?" beside the right shift is just a tad too awkward to reach, for some reason.
Here's a picture of mine, with keys pulled from an old cherry g80-8113.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8539/8618686083_d3dd5f5e9e_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89364707@N02/8618686083/)
Giving it a first spin now and the first thing that I notice is that the thumb keys are much further away than on the Kinesis. I've got pretty small hands so it's quite a stretch for me. I feel much more comfortable when shifting my fingers inwards one column but then all the lettering would be messed up.
So here are 2 alternative ways that would improve the thumbcluster position, either move it down and right, or make the lower innermost column key (the one without a keycap on the photo) a single width key, and move the thumbcluster just to the right.
My kit arrived yesterday, after a shipping issue/delay and some excellent customer service by Massdrop that saved me a 40 minute drive to the UPS facility to pick it up. Thanks Massdrop!
I plan on using SMT diodes and this will be my first time soldering SMT, but I have plenty of through-hole soldering experience. Should I just use the .032" solder I have or should I order some .020"?
Thanks in advance!
Are the tiny solder pads for the smd's pre-soldered or are they bare pads? I am guessing bare but thought I would ask.
Thanks,
John
Giving it a first spin now and the first thing that I notice is that the thumb keys are much further away than on the Kinesis. I've got pretty small hands so it's quite a stretch for me. I feel much more comfortable when shifting my fingers inwards one column but then all the lettering would be messed up.
That innermost bottom row key does indeed seem like it could be a thumb key. My thumb is tempted to land between it and the actual thumb key, and either of them could probably work.I have got an idea for extending the key from the thumb cluster into the gap.
I already put in an order for Massdrop's second batch of ErgoDox. Is there some way to have the design changed before the PCB and cases are cut?
My kit arrived yesterday, after a shipping issue/delay and some excellent customer service by Massdrop that saved me a 40 minute drive to the UPS facility to pick it up. Thanks Massdrop!
I plan on using SMT diodes and this will be my first time soldering SMT, but I have plenty of through-hole soldering experience. Should I just use the .032" solder I have or should I order some .020"?
Thanks in advance!
Doesnt matter too much. It takes a little longer to melt the bigger one. I have both a .03 and a .022. I used .022 for smd only. They say they have the same amount of flux but the thinner one that I have doesnt leave a lot of extra flux when soldered on.
Anyone cleaned the flux off their pcb? And with what.
I already put in an order for Massdrop's second batch of ErgoDox. Is there some way to have the design changed before the PCB and cases are cut?
Almost certainly not. It took something like two years to realize this keyboard.
// ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
// PRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------
const void_funptr_t PROGMEM _kb_layout_press[KB_LAYERS][KB_ROWS][KB_COLUMNS] = {
// LAYER 0
KB_MATRIX_LAYER(
// unused
NULL,
// left hand
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, sshprre,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, sshprre,
cntprre, cntprre, cntprre, cntprre, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel,
NULL, NULL, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
// right hand
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
sshprre, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
lpush1, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, NULL, NULL,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel
),
The code should be (more or less) formatted to look like the two halves of your keyboard. This section of the code tells us what sort of signal a key sends when it is pressed down. There is a corresponding section of code to in a minute.// ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
// RELEASE --------------------------------------------------------------------
const void_funptr_t PROGMEM _kb_layout_release[KB_LAYERS][KB_ROWS][KB_COLUMNS] = {
// LAYER 0
KB_MATRIX_LAYER(
// unused
NULL,
// left hand
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, sshprre,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, sshprre,
cntprre, cntprre, cntprre, cntprre, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel,
NULL, NULL, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
// right hand
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
sshprre, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
lpop1, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, kprrel,
kprrel, NULL, NULL,
kprrel, kprrel, kprrel
),
Note that the only difference between this section and the PRESS section is that "lpush1" is now "lpop1". That is because in my layout, this is a layer toggle key. It is only active while held down.#define cntprre &kbfun_control_press_releasevoid kbfun_control_press_release(void) {
_kbfun_press_release(IS_PRESSED, KEY_LeftControl);
kbfun_press_release();
} void kbfun_control_press_release (void);How do design decisions get made on this open source project? (moving the thumb cluster closer to the hand for example)?
Seems like Massdrop is responsive to customers; what and who are they listening too?
I just realized I put the switches in the plates backwards... dammit.Show Image(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fE9R5ShhvOk/UV9h2SGeK8I/AAAAAAAAAuo/R-6bl5AnJPs/s912/DSCF2123.JPG)
Are you trying to work around not taking them out and putting them in properly? That thing doesn't look ergonomical anymore...No... I mean put the Teensy in the left hand (under the PCB, as to not screw up the pin assignments) and the I/O expander on the right hand(under the PCB again) so that you could unplug the right half from the left and still have a half a keyboard or use it like a gamer pad.
i remember reading the ergodox thread from start to end at one point and I vaguely recall that the thumb clusters were already shifted once. After using mine for a couple of days, I find that the thumb buttons are fine where they are, and I have a feeling that bringing them closer as suggested might actually interfere with certain button presses, and it will cause problems for those with bigger hands. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing, and you'd get used to the layout as it is if you give it a chance.
Massdrop is handling the logistics based on the work of forum members here and on Deskthority. They're doing great work to get kits assembled and shipped to people, but they haven't done anything on the design side of the project.Thank you for the comprehensive answer AloisiusFauxly.
Dox came up with the idea (hence the name), and numerous people contributed to the design process both in this thread (seriously, go to page 1 and start reading) and a matching one on DT (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/split-ergonomic-keyboard-project-t1753.html). At this point, the keyboard is done and Dox has moved on to other projects.
If you don't like the thumb cluster position, start a new thread for the ErgoWolf and see if there's any interest.
i remember reading the ergodox thread from start to end at one point and I vaguely recall that the thumb clusters were already shifted once. After using mine for a couple of days, I find that the thumb buttons are fine where they are, and I have a feeling that bringing them closer as suggested might actually interfere with certain button presses, and it will cause problems for those with bigger hands. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing, and you'd get used to the layout as it is if you give it a chance.
I have very big hands and still find the thumb keys hard to reach compared to my kinesis advantage. I'm already used to the layout, I did 103 WPM on typeracer yesterday, which is actually better than what I usually get on my Advantage!
But the far large thumbkeys (ie the Enter key) is a bigger stretch compared to the Advantage.
It would only bring a benefit to move the thumbclusters closer to the hands in a future revision.
diff -upr ../src/keyboard/ergodox/controller/teensy-2-0--led.h src/keyboard/ergodox/controller/teensy-2-0--led.h
--- ../src/keyboard/ergodox/controller/teensy-2-0--led.h 2013-04-01 15:06:12.000000000 -0700
+++ src/keyboard/ergodox/controller/teensy-2-0--led.h 2013-04-05 21:52:11.000000000 -0700
@@ -30,17 +30,29 @@
#define _kb_led_3_set(n) (OCR1C = (uint8_t)(n))
#define _kb_led_3_set_percent(n) (OCR1C = (uint8_t)((n) * 0xFF))
+ #define _kb_led_4_on() (PORTD |= (1<<5))
+ #define _kb_led_4_off() (PORTD &= ~(1<<5))
+ #define _kb_led_5_on() (PORTD |= (1<<4))
+ #define _kb_led_5_off() (PORTD &= ~(1<<4))
+ #define _kb_led_6_on() (PORTD |= (1<<6))
+ #define _kb_led_6_off() (PORTD &= ~(1<<6))
#define _kb_led_all_on() do { \
_kb_led_1_on(); \
_kb_led_2_on(); \
_kb_led_3_on(); \
+ _kb_led_4_on(); \
+ _kb_led_5_on(); \
+ _kb_led_6_on(); \
} while(0)
#define _kb_led_all_off() do { \
_kb_led_1_off(); \
_kb_led_2_off(); \
_kb_led_3_off(); \
+ _kb_led_4_off(); \
+ _kb_led_5_off(); \
+ _kb_led_6_off(); \
} while(0)
#define _kb_led_all_set(n) do { \
diff -upr ../src/main.c src/main.c
--- ../src/main.c 2013-04-01 15:06:12.000000000 -0700
+++ src/main.c 2013-04-05 21:54:38.000000000 -0700
@@ -24,6 +24,7 @@
// ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+uint8_t layers_head = 0;
static bool _main_kb_is_pressed[KB_ROWS][KB_COLUMNS];
bool (*main_kb_is_pressed)[KB_ROWS][KB_COLUMNS] = &_main_kb_is_pressed;
@@ -50,6 +51,17 @@ bool main_arg_was_pressed;
int main(void) {
kb_init(); // does controller initialization too
+ // set internal pull-up off for both pins
+ PORTD &= ~(1<<4);
+ PORTD &= ~(1<<5);
+ PORTD &= ~(1<<6);
+
+ // set the pins as output
+ // (because we cleared the applicable PORT bits above, the pins will now be driving low)
+ DDRD |= (1<<4);
+ DDRD |= (1<<5);
+ DDRD |= (1<<6);
+
kb_led_state_power_on();
usb_init();
@@ -63,6 +75,7 @@ int main(void) {
bool (*temp)[KB_ROWS][KB_COLUMNS] = main_kb_was_pressed;
main_kb_was_pressed = main_kb_is_pressed;
main_kb_is_pressed = temp;
+ _kb_led_4_off(); // buzzer off
kb_update_matrix(*main_kb_is_pressed);
@@ -82,15 +95,23 @@ int main(void) {
#define is_pressed main_arg_is_pressed
#define was_pressed main_arg_was_pressed
for (row=0; row<KB_ROWS; row++) {
+ if (layers_head != 0)
+ _kb_led_6_on(); // layer led on
+ else
+ _kb_led_6_off(); // layer led off
+
for (col=0; col<KB_COLUMNS; col++) {
is_pressed = (*main_kb_is_pressed)[row][col];
was_pressed = (*main_kb_was_pressed)[row][col];
if (is_pressed != was_pressed) {
if (is_pressed) {
+ _kb_led_4_on(); // buzzer on
+ _kb_led_5_on(); // key led on
layer = main_layers_peek(0);
main_layers_pressed[row][col] = layer;
} else {
+ _kb_led_5_off(); // key led off
layer = main_layers_pressed[row][col];
}
@@ -175,7 +197,6 @@ struct layers {
// ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
struct layers layers[MAX_ACTIVE_LAYERS];
-uint8_t layers_head = 0;
uint8_t layers_ids_in_use[MAX_ACTIVE_LAYERS] = {true};
/*
diff -upr ../src/makefile-options src/makefile-options
--- ../src/makefile-options 2013-04-01 15:06:12.000000000 -0700
+++ src/makefile-options 2013-04-03 16:54:14.000000000 -0700
@@ -9,7 +9,7 @@
TARGET := firmware # the name we want for our program binary
KEYBOARD := ergodox # keyboard model; see "src/keyboard" for what's available
-LAYOUT := default-kinesis-mod # keyboard layout
+LAYOUT := default--layout # keyboard layout
# see "src/keyboard/*/layout" for what's
# available
--- ../src/keyboard/ergodox/controller/teensy-2-0--led.h 2013-04-01 15:06:12.000000000 -0700
+++ keyboard/ergodox/controller/teensy-2-0--led.h 2013-04-05 21:52:11.000000000 -0700
@@ -30,17 +30,21 @@
#define _kb_led_3_set(n) (OCR1C = (uint8_t)(n))
#define _kb_led_3_set_percent(n) (OCR1C = (uint8_t)((n) * 0xFF))
+ #define _kb_led_6_on() (PORTD |= (1<<6))
+ #define _kb_led_6_off() (PORTD &= ~(1<<6))
#define _kb_led_all_on() do { \
_kb_led_1_on(); \
_kb_led_2_on(); \
_kb_led_3_on(); \
+ _kb_led_6_on(); \
} while(0)
#define _kb_led_all_off() do { \
_kb_led_1_off(); \
_kb_led_2_off(); \
_kb_led_3_off(); \
+ _kb_led_6_off(); \
} while(0)
#define _kb_led_all_set(n) do { \
--- ../src/main.c 2013-04-01 15:06:12.000000000 -0700
+++ main.c 2013-04-05 21:54:38.000000000 -0700
@@ -24,6 +24,7 @@
// ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+uint8_t layers_head = 0;
static bool _main_kb_is_pressed[KB_ROWS][KB_COLUMNS];
bool (*main_kb_is_pressed)[KB_ROWS][KB_COLUMNS] = &_main_kb_is_pressed;
@@ -50,6 +51,9 @@ bool main_arg_was_pressed;
int main(void) {
kb_init(); // does controller initialization too
+ PORTD &= ~(1<<6);
+ DDRD |= (1<<6);
+
kb_led_state_power_on();
usb_init();
@@ -82,6 +95,11 @@ int main(void) {
#define is_pressed main_arg_is_pressed
#define was_pressed main_arg_was_pressed
for (row=0; row<KB_ROWS; row++) {
+ if (layers_head != 0)
+ _kb_led_6_on(); // layer led on
+ else
+ _kb_led_6_off(); // layer led off
+
for (col=0; col<KB_COLUMNS; col++) {
is_pressed = (*main_kb_is_pressed)[row][col];
was_pressed = (*main_kb_was_pressed)[row][col];
@@ -175,7 +197,6 @@ struct layers {
// ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
struct layers layers[MAX_ACTIVE_LAYERS];
-uint8_t layers_head = 0;
uint8_t layers_ids_in_use[MAX_ACTIVE_LAYERS] = {true};
/*
--- ../src/makefile-options 2013-04-01 15:06:12.000000000 -0700
+++ makefile-options 2013-04-03 16:54:14.000000000 -0700
@@ -9,7 +9,7 @@
TARGET := firmware # the name we want for our program binary
KEYBOARD := ergodox # keyboard model; see "src/keyboard" for what's available
-LAYOUT := default-kinesis-mod # keyboard layout
+LAYOUT := default--layout # keyboard layout
# see "src/keyboard/*/layout" for what's
# available
Inverting the design has been discussed before. Originally I planned to make it possible, but in the end I screwed it up slightly. You would probably need to cut some trace going to the USB connector if I remember correctly at the moment. You'd definitely need to bend the IO-expander chips over backwards. And place the Teensy upside down, but that is easy =)
All in all I would recommend you put it together the "standard" way. Mirrored should be seen as a special solution for people not minding the extra programming quirks...
I believe one of the pads on the USB connector is wired to the ground plane. If I hadn't done that the external connector would be completely freely wired to the internal USB on the Teensy. Then you could have chosen to mount it whatever way you want.
I believe one of the pads on the USB connector is wired to the ground plane. If I hadn't done that the external connector would be completely freely wired to the internal USB on the Teensy. Then you could have chosen to mount it whatever way you want. Putting the USB connector on the bottom still works of course. But that doesn't fit the case I suspect. All components being either 2 lead or through hole are mirrorable, sort of. The Teensy can be put upside down instead of on the back (think the same orientation but translated to the top instead of bottom). The IO expander should be possible to bend backwards as well. Grab all leads with a pair of pliers and turn them all over at once...I see that ground plane connection, not a problem to take an XActo knife to that. Now to get my prototype (my personal eDox, before i go fudging up OrangeJewce's) to work when mirrored. I have the Teensy soldered in and I was connecting directly to it. I also put on a diode and firmware onto the Teensy... No dice.
How big of a problem is the distance between the thumb cluster? Could someone make a video/picture of the ErgoDox with their hands present for reference?
How big of a problem is the distance between the thumb cluster? Could someone make a video/picture of the ErgoDox with their hands present for reference?
Ok so I have the QWERTY-KINESIS layout put on my teensy, yet I have no idea where I should be looking to see what the actual layout is. I have most of it figured out, but some keys I have no idea what they are supposed to do. Making my troubleshooting with soldering tricky.
out of curiosity, why would one want to put their hands closer together if they're already using a split keyboard?
I am currently reprototyping a "minimal" version with a lot less keys, but it's mostly in the "just scratching my own itch" stage. If there's interest i'll see about making a larger run? It's also not too tough to mill out one-offs, if you have a design in mind.
Thank you! That's just what I was looking to see. It looks like there are no problems as it is, but that it could be improved if shifted. In the perfect scenario, I would imagine that the thumb resting position would be in the middle of the cluster, not on the edge.How big of a problem is the distance between the thumb cluster? Could someone make a video/picture of the ErgoDox with their hands present for reference?
You can check out this post (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg765195#msg765195) (from a while back) too if you like.
hey out of curiosity can the teensy be magnetted to load a new hex file? Or do you have to remove the top plate to access the onboard reset button every time?
In the perfect scenario, I would imagine that the thumb resting position would be in the middle of the cluster, not on the edge.That's an interesting point, even on the kinesis the thumb home position is on the inner-edge thumb key (which are of course BS/space). Seeing the thumb has more inside reach, it would be an interesting to have a another normal size key beside them, making a four column thumbwell :)
Inverting the design has been discussed before. Originally I planned to make it possible, but in the end I screwed it up slightly. You would probably need to cut some trace going to the USB connector if I remember correctly at the moment. You'd definitely need to bend the IO-expander chips over backwards. And place the Teensy upside down, but that is easy =)
All in all I would recommend you put it together the "standard" way. Mirrored should be seen as a special solution for people not minding the extra programming quirks...
I definitely want to make mine into a "one-hand only" keyboard. It will be useful for typing with one hand, and mousing with the other. I suppose I can teach myself to mouse with my left hand and type with only my right, but I would prefer to do it the other way around.
I began some refining on one of the cases and what a difference. I would recommend everyone countersink the top layer and use flathead screws.Some kind of small tutorial would be really nice for us who have not worked with metal that much before. :)
It was easy to do with a simple countersink and looks and feels much better.
How is everyone dealing with the nuts on the underside. Thick pads? I was thinking about using helicoils on the bottom layers to allow for a flush bottom. Any advice?
Hey litster, any comment on moving the thumb clusters closer to the hands? See a few posts up, where I posted an doctored image of yours :-)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844527#msg844527
Hey litster, any comment on moving the thumb clusters closer to the hands? See a few posts up, where I posted an doctored image of yours :-)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844527#msg844527
Saw your post. Nothing I can do. The case is built based on the PCB design.
Of course, but if bpiphany changes the PCB design, will you be able to change the case design accordingly?
I began some refining on one of the cases and what a difference. I would recommend everyone countersink the top layer and use flathead screws.Some kind of small tutorial would be really nice for us who have not worked with metal that much before. :)
It was easy to do with a simple countersink and looks and feels much better.
I took some pictures and outlined the steps I used on my case but for some reason (I suspect my incompetence), I was unable to post it. If someone would PM me to help me upload it, some might find it helpful.
On another note, I haven't heard many opinions about the cases, aluminum or acrylic. Do the acrylic cases go together as hoped? Any alignment issues? My aluminum layers that have a break in the circumference are slightly sprung out of alignment. Not a major problem but need to be compressed a bit for the screws to align. The clearances are also a bit tight and will require some filing for the pcb to fit properly.
How is everyone dealing with the nuts on the underside. Thick pads? I was thinking about using helicoils on the bottom layers to allow for a flush bottom. Any advice?
Now available via Massdrop!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
(You will need to make an account with them)
Round 2 is up: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-2Now available via Massdrop!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
(You will need to make an account with them)
Missed the order, a bunch of crap was going down around January :(
308 people have requested for new keyboards, any plans for a new release?
Now available via Massdrop!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
(You will need to make an account with them)
Missed the order, a bunch of crap was going down around January :(
308 people have requested for new keyboards, any plans for a new release?
If there is a PCB redesign, wouldn't shifting the thumbwell downwards and adding an extra 1x key on the inside allow users to shift with thumbs easily? Seems to be a popular request.
Here's round 2!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-2
Ah sorry sordna, I shouldn't have said request - just from observations in other ergonomic discussion threads questions about using thumbs for shift comes up quite often. Time will show if it is feasible or not.
joined the party late, was on a business trip
got home yesterday night and spent all last night building it
after finishing i put the firmware on and everything worked! for once no fixing required. successful day is successful!
pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/sets/72157633198800512/with/8631586183/
i wanted an incline, and i created one with sugru, which has spent 12 hours curing, seems hard enough.
Larken's idea is sooooo much better than mine.... but eh. if it works it works
typing on it now makes me feel so happy, but there is a lot of training to do with it
edit: oh btw i ordered 2 ergodox and got one with aluminium case and the other with acrylic, for the fun of it i decided to mix and match the case layers :)
joined the party late, was on a business trip
got home yesterday night and spent all last night building it
after finishing i put the firmware on and everything worked! for once no fixing required. successful day is successful!
pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/sets/72157633198800512/with/8631586183/
i wanted an incline, and i created one with sugru, which has spent 12 hours curing, seems hard enough.
Larken's idea is sooooo much better than mine.... but eh. if it works it works
typing on it now makes me feel so happy, but there is a lot of training to do with it
edit: oh btw i ordered 2 ergodox and got one with aluminium case and the other with acrylic, for the fun of it i decided to mix and match the case layers :)
Man, that mixed layers thing looks sick! I just got mine today, I am going to put it together tomorrow (not enough time tonight!)
Btw, what wrist rests are you using? Those go really well with the ergodox!
To be honest, the easy part is the final finishing. The hard part is making all the layers the same size. I found that there is quite a bit of variance in the size and squareness of each layer. The laser cutting left things pretty rough. I guess if you don't care how the layers look when they are sandwiched together you can skip trying to make them all the same size and just polish them up.
To be honest, the easy part is the final finishing. The hard part is making all the layers the same size. I found that there is quite a bit of variance in the size and squareness of each layer. The laser cutting left things pretty rough. I guess if you don't care how the layers look when they are sandwiched together you can skip trying to make them all the same size and just polish them up.
I got an aluminum and honestly, it is a freaking joke. Anyone that manufactures something like this should be embarrassed.
The edges are VERY rough
There are burrs everywhere
The switch cutouts are NOT square and perpindicular
I had to almost destroy my pcb from grinding the edges to get them to fit in the plate below it.
Screws sticking out the top and bottom(I knew this when I ordered)
and a few more major issues.
They stated no aluminum in GB 2 because the price would be almost double. Well with that phylosophy it is obvious they cut MANY corners to save cost on the aluminum cases in GB 1.
I have posted MANY times defending high cost because of machining chatges and manual labor costs but this is simply awful.
John
They are just laser cut and obviously done at a high rate of speed. MD is wise to ditch it. One of the layers had a nasty bend in it, but luckily I was able to fix it without fatiguing the aluminum too much. In the end I think it will look nice, but it's not worth all the hassle.
Too bad they don't offer other colors besides clear. Black would be a nice choice.
@Glod
any idea how much heavy is the aluminium casing compared to the acrylic one?
On the surface mounted diodes thing. Its not that bad to use the through-hole diodes is it? I am
not really that comfortable doing surface mounted soldering...
How much further are the thumb clusters on the Ergodox compared to the Kinesis?
I ask because on the Kinesis already I find it a stretch to reach the furthest keys (Alt, home, end, up, down).
On the surface mounted diodes thing. Its not that bad to use the through-hole diodes is it? I am
not really that comfortable doing surface mounted soldering...
It was my first time and extremely easy.
Put a small spot on one pad.
Place the diode with tweezers while melting the dot of solder.
Solder the other end
Give it a go. You may be surprised. I used .020 solder and an iron with a .015 tip.
You can alsk put the diodes in the switched in you want.
Good luck,
John
So this is only a problem with layer 3 of the case?
MAJOR problems. I had to dremel the hell outta my PCBs to get them to fit.So this is only a problem with layer 3 of the case?
layer 2 has problems fitting the pcb in the aluminium case if that is what you are refering to
... In the end I decided that getting acrylic to spray paint over would be a much easier thing to do, as compared to the preparation work for anodising (not to mention cheaper, better looking and probably easier to work with in terms of sanding)It occurs to me that painting only the underside of the top layer plate would give you a preferred color and retain the glossy-smooth acrylic surface without any worries about paint flaking off in the long run. For that matter, you could use the top layer plate as a template to cut a sheet of silvered mylar or any other sort of patterned paper/plastic sheet, which you could sandwich under the top layer plate.
How do you know how much can be trimmed from the perimeter of the PCBs before hitting some vital part?I had so much intetference in some areas I did have to remove material from both the pcb and case. I just don't undetstand ... ya have the dimensions of the pcb, just add 1/16" clearance all around inside the case.
Here is how I tent my ergodox for the time being. You can see the buzzer, as well as builtin teensy orange LED, indicating that I'm in a layer other than the default.
Would appreciate if someone with a Kinesis and Ergodox could do a comparison for me. I'm poised to join the massdrop but worried if this will be an issue for me.
Thumb keys are a bit harder to reach on the ergodox, but it's quite good overall. I like having both these keyboards. Some other comparison points here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41937.msg842927#msg842927
Here is how I tent my ergodox for the time being. You can see the buzzer, as well as builtin teensy orange LED, indicating that I'm in a layer other than the default.
What are the options for palm rests at this point?
Am I right in assuming I can just flip the diodes for the left hand, and that way have a normally (firmware) working ergodox, with integrated diodes?
the smd diodes are not as hard as they look and it would be easier to mod the switches after soldering because the plate allows taking apart the switches without desoldering.The diodes are in the bottom part of the switch anyways, so they shouldn't interfere. I could see it being an extra hassle, only if I needed to remove the whole switch, for whatever reason.
Typing to you guys now on my new ergodox keyboard. I might update it to a more truly ergonomic keyboard like setup later. The fact that I soldered it myself makes it that much more beautiful!
I had in a previous post promised to post a couple of ideas I had for bridging the gap between the thumb-keys and the main keys.
In the image on the left, I have used a 2×1 Space key (one that I had previously made from a thick row-A numpad-0) on the key below M. It does however nudge against the N key, so some of the Space key would have to be cut off. I also found that offsetting the outer thumb-key made it easier to reach.
Ok I got a bug up my ass and want to try a crazy, crazy project.
But I will need a modified ErgoDox PCB, and am too busy atm to search through 40 pages. Are the source files for the ErgoDox PCB listed somewhere in this thread? Or should I contact the guys via MassDrop and see if they can supply it?
bunch of random keys. is it possible to burn the PCB?
From what I can see I think some of your diodes are backwards. There is a tiny grey line down the diode. I should be closest to the square pad with the hole in it because diodes do have direction to them.
Yup, any time! Honestly, that's one part of Mass Drop's instructions they would make clearer with high-res, close-up pictures. They do mention it in the instructions but sometimes it's easy to miss stuff like that.
You're also flooding the pads with too much solder. A small dab would be sufficient to hold the smd in place. Throughhole has a larger margin of error, so your switches are probably fine, but even then, that's still too much solder imo.
Alot of the diodes in the places where the keys aren't working also have the diodes more off-center, mostly too much to the left, according to the picture. Not sure if that's an issue, but it did account for about 3-5 of my bad joints.
You're also flooding the pads with too much solder. A small dab would be sufficient to hold the smd in place. Throughhole has a larger margin of error, so your switches are probably fine, but even then, that's still too much solder imo.
Alot of the diodes in the places where the keys aren't working also have the diodes more off-center, mostly too much to the left, according to the picture. Not sure if that's an issue, but it did account for about 3-5 of my bad joints.
what is the down side of applying too much solder?
The problem anyway is that the thumbcluster altogether is further away than needed, especially felt on the Enter and Delete keys, not so much the Space and Backspace.Yes, but we can't do anything about that without building a new keyboard with a new PCB, plate and case. I am trying to find ideas for salvaging what we have paid for by moving the symbolic keys one step outwards. Abandon the outermost thumbkey and promote the key below M to being a thumbkey.
Yeah that looks like a pad came loose. Fortunately this board uses through-hole plating, so as long as you get a solder or a small wire connection between the diode and the hole next to the pad it should be fine.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6T1xGMR.jpg)
What is the easiest way to get the brown paper off the acrylic full hand case? I don't want to scratch it :/
Gupgup
Yeah that looks like a pad came loose. Fortunately this board uses through-hole plating, so as long as you get a solder or a small wire connection between the diode and the hole next to the pad it should be fine.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6T1xGMR.jpg)
it worked like a charm! thanks. I felt like i was doing an artery bypass surgery just now. hahah
Yeah that looks like a pad came loose. Fortunately this board uses through-hole plating, so as long as you get a solder or a small wire connection between the diode and the hole next to the pad it should be fine.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6T1xGMR.jpg)
it worked like a charm! thanks. I felt like i was doing an artery bypass surgery just now. hahah
seferphier, where you able to get yours working properly?
I got a few PMs regarding SMD soldering, so I made a video for SMD diodes. It's not specifically on the ergo dox, but the same thing should apply. Jump to where it's relevant (at 3:14). Here are a few quick tips.
- You'd want to use solder wire in size 0.015" or 0.020" max, anything larger than that will be hard to control the amount you apply, and you'll almost always put too much solder. If you're good, you can get away with 0.032"
- Diodes always have polarity. The side with the line is the negative side. Make sure you get the orientation correct, otherwise they do not work.
- You need to put solder paste on one pad first, touch one diode leg on it and reflow. This holds the diode on so you can do the other leg.
- Also, these are small parts and do not have a high heat capacity. Don't turn up your iron temperature too high or leave it on there too long, otherwise you'll fry the pads, legs, or the diode. These are not switch pins, so you don't need much heat to melt the solder.
- Do not put a lot of pressure on the legs or pads with the iron tip. Do it as light as you can, just barely touching. This prevents you from scraping the pad/traces off or breaking the diode legs. High temps will make this even more susceptible
The solder pads for the SMD diodes are so tiny, the diode legs cover them completely. So, wouldn't it be better to put solder on both pads (not just one) before soldering the diode on this particular PCB ?
I got a few PMs regarding SMD soldering, so I made a video for SMD diodes. It's not specifically on the ergo dox, but the same thing should apply. Jump to where it's relevant (at 3:14). Here are a few quick tips.
- You'd want to use solder wire in size 0.015" or 0.020" max, anything larger than that will be hard to control the amount you apply, and you'll almost always put too much solder. If you're good, you can get away with 0.032"
- Diodes always have polarity. The side with the line is the negative side. Make sure you get the orientation correct, otherwise they do not work.
- You need to put solder paste on one pad first, touch one diode leg on it and reflow. This holds the diode on so you can do the other leg.
- Also, these are small parts and do not have a high heat capacity. Don't turn up your iron temperature too high or leave it on there too long, otherwise you'll fry the pads, legs, or the diode. These are not switch pins, so you don't need much heat to melt the solder.
- Do not put a lot of pressure on the legs or pads with the iron tip. Do it as light as you can, just barely touching. This prevents you from scraping the pad/traces off or breaking the diode legs. High temps will make this even more susceptible
Sorry if this was said, how do you determine the right way the diode goes on the PCB for the ErgoDox?
It says Note the Cathode of the diode (denoted with a line) connects to the square pad on the PCB. It looks to me like they both are square pads?
Gupgup
I got a few PMs regarding SMD soldering, so I made a video for SMD diodes. It's not specifically on the ergo dox, but the same thing should apply. Jump to where it's relevant (at 3:14). Here are a few quick tips.
- You'd want to use solder wire in size 0.015" or 0.020" max, anything larger than that will be hard to control the amount you apply, and you'll almost always put too much solder. If you're good, you can get away with 0.032"
- Diodes always have polarity. The side with the line is the negative side. Make sure you get the orientation correct, otherwise they do not work.
- You need to put solder paste on one pad first, touch one diode leg on it and reflow. This holds the diode on so you can do the other leg.
- Also, these are small parts and do not have a high heat capacity. Don't turn up your iron temperature too high or leave it on there too long, otherwise you'll fry the pads, legs, or the diode. These are not switch pins, so you don't need much heat to melt the solder.
- Do not put a lot of pressure on the legs or pads with the iron tip. Do it as light as you can, just barely touching. This prevents you from scraping the pad/traces off or breaking the diode legs. High temps will make this even more susceptible
Sorry if this was said, how do you determine the right way the diode goes on the PCB for the ErgoDox?
It says Note the Cathode of the diode (denoted with a line) connects to the square pad on the PCB. It looks to me like they both are square pads?
Gupgup
the line would face the square part of the through hole diode area which surrounds the smd area
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8519/8631583613_ff8b9ddc52_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/8631583613/)
Sorry if this was said, how do you determine the right way the diode goes on the PCB for the ErgoDox?
It says Note the Cathode of the diode (denoted with a line) connects to the square pad on the PCB. It looks to me like they both are square pads?
You are right. But if you reflow the first leg you did after you do the second, won't it alleviate any stress issues?
Hmm, I just wish the solder pads where a bit bigger on this PCB... I'm not sure how will the solder can flow under the diode leg if you cannot even see the solder pad because it's so tiny. On your video, the pad is wider that the diode leg and it's no issue.
Done...finally. Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case. It is a royal PITA. The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful. There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case. A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work. Not perfect, but tolerable at least.
It's loaded up with lubed browns and the "qwerty-kinesis-mod" layout to start. Between the matrix layout and blank keys, typing is a huge challenge.
Another quick question!
In step 5, here (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/assembly.php), it says jump wire and short the two sets of connections with white outline. Can you just take a wire clipping from one of the resistors and solder them in there? Or am I missing something :/
Thanks :D
Gupgup
Done...finally. Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case. It is a royal PITA. The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful. There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case. A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work. Not perfect, but tolerable at least.
Is there a schematic of the ErgoDox wiring?
I want to make my own case and solder diodes directly to the switches as lowpoly did on his M0110 mod: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0
I just need a schematic so I know how the electronic parts go together.
Thank you.
BTW the pictures of the finished ErgoDox keyboards look great.
- The DSA keycaps don't have any homerow centering keys. I'm used to the Kinesis, so this layout isn't exactly hard for me, but I manage to misplace my hands enough without those wonderful homerow keys of the Kinesis.
More random photos here. (http://zalusithix.com/photos/ergodox/)
Done...finally. Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case. It is a royal PITA. The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful. There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case. A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work. Not perfect, but tolerable at least.
Between the matrix layout and blank keys, typing is a huge challenge.
The memory muscle are incredible, I had to spend couple hours to get back to my normal typing speed and accuracy when I change my Kinesis keycaps to Massdrop's DSA keyboard. I kept the Kinesis home row key unchange because it help me kept my finger at home rows without looking. Like below pictureDone...finally. Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case. It is a royal PITA. The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful. There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case. A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work. Not perfect, but tolerable at least.
Between the matrix layout and blank keys, typing is a huge challenge.
That looks great man. I wouldn't have had the patience or skills to do what you've done with it. An idea to get help with the acclimatization - forget the dsa blank caps for now. When I got mine done at first, I threw on the blanks for an hour before I realized how hard it was to remember a non-standard layout, and I had been typing on blanks on my filco for the last 2 years. Throw on a set of labelled caps for at least the alphanumeric keys and swap them around until you figure out the layout you want (fyi, I'm on my 30th version of my layout before I figured out how I wanted it). This way, you can look at the keys when you need to until muscle memory kicks in, which is a few days at least.
@Zalusithix - that looks great. I did the same with mine, though I left the top cover alone. It does take extremely precise cutting of the paper with a xacto. Kudos on the lemonade making.
It could have turned out good. I guess it really depends on which laser cutter they sourced. Some machines have really bad tolerances. Here is an example of a really terrible one:
http://imgur.com/ysADbOY
.eep didn't work for me either, so I skipped it entirely, and the keyboard worked anyway. It's just a tiny file containing this: :00000001FF
Are you trying to load it with linux, windows, or mac ? I only tried on linux, but the teensy program won't recognize it, so I'm wondering if it's a windows-only thing...
Are you using switches with integrated diodes? If so, you need to change some options in the firmware.
Otherwise, I suspect you may have gotten the jumpers wrong? Please post photos of both the top and bottom of your left PCB.
You got the jumpers wrong. You are supposed to join the two holes, following the white outline as drawn on the top of the PCB, not the bottom (solder) side.a--000''00i
You got the jumpers wrong. You are supposed to join the two holes, following the white outline as drawn on the top of the PCB, not the bottom (solder) side.
Zalusithix it Looks fantastic!Thank you Glod.Is there a schematic of the ErgoDox wiring?
I want to make my own case and solder diodes directly to the switches as lowpoly did on his M0110 mod: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0
I just need a schematic so I know how the electronic parts go together.
Thank you.
BTW the pictures of the finished ErgoDox keyboards look great.
The gerber files are available at http://www.ergodox.org/Downloads.aspx
strange. i completed the left side and all the keys would not register. Sometimes some of the keys would register if i press on them randomly. any idea what the cause is?Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21019600/IMG_1561.JPG)
strange. i completed the left side and all the keys would not register. Sometimes some of the keys would register if i press on them randomly. any idea what the cause is?Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21019600/IMG_1561.JPG)
I believe you missed two pins on the transponder.
Also, the capacitor is not wired correctly. It's supposed to straddle a hole, not join 2 adjacent holes, according to massdrop's photo:Show Image(https://d3jqoivu6qpygv.cloudfront.net/img_bucket/ergodox/_W3T2078.jpg)
Note MD's photo doesn't show the solder pads bridged, but you should do that too.
It means apply enough solder so they are joined together, like this (ic07's photo)Show Image(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/402615_536678853015648_285544083_n.jpg)
edit: below is my photo, I actually made the bridging through the acrylic plate opening, since I didn't realize I was missing it till after I soldered the switches:
- The DSA keycaps don't have any homerow centering keys. I'm used to the Kinesis, so this layout isn't exactly hard for me, but I manage to misplace my hands enough without those wonderful homerow keys of the Kinesis.
More random photos here. (http://zalusithix.com/photos/ergodox/)
Nice pics. Put your Kinesis keycaps on the Ergodox, and the DSA on the Kinesis, you might like it! I put Kinesis keycaps on the Ergodox and while it's a big improvement, I still have some trouble positioning my hands without looking. I should probably create nubs with superglue on F and J.
is there any consequence of not doing it? don't want to do it over the acrylic.
is there any consequence of not doing it? don't want to do it over the acrylic.
Well, you have the capaticor wired wrong anyway, so if you don't want to correct it, better thing is to rip out the capacitor entirely, since after all it's considered optional.
the acrylic case doesn't seem to fit perfectly. the pins from the teensy board seems stick out and extend beyond the base acrylic. is this a common issue?
the acrylic case doesn't seem to fit perfectly. the pins from the teensy board seems stick out and extend beyond the base acrylic. is this a common issue?
Mine fits snug like a bug, did you cut off the ends of the pins with a wire cutter?
Could you maybe post a pic of this?
Gupgup
It'd be nice if they had included deep dish caps for this purpose or something. Maybe we can get a group buy going for this purpose or something.I sent a quote form to SP yesterday asking how much it would be for some DSA blank black deep dish keys. I will report when I get an answer.
It'd be nice if they had included deep dish caps for this purpose or something. Maybe we can get a group buy going for this purpose or something.I sent a quote form to SP yesterday asking how much it would be for some DSA blank black deep dish keys. I will report when I get an answer.
Done...finally. Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case. It is a royal PITA. The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful. There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case. A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work. Not perfect, but tolerable at least.Show Image(http://www.knizefamily.net/images/pool/keyboard-ergodox-left.jpg)Show Image(http://www.knizefamily.net/images/pool/keyboard-ergodox-left-close.jpg)
It's loaded up with lubed browns and the "qwerty-kinesis-mod" layout to start. Between the matrix layout and blank keys, typing is a huge challenge.
Say, what is that bridging pad, right next to the "TEENSY2.0" label on the PCB ? Does anyone know?
Say, what is that bridging pad, right next to the "TEENSY2.0" label on the PCB ? Does anyone know?
IIRC, those two pads are already joined. I think they supply Vcc to one pin of the capacitor (while the two pads on the other side provide GND).
For the USB little header that goes from connects the PC to the ErgoDox, the solder doesn't reach through the solder joint to make a connection. When the cable is plugged in it moves up and disconnects the whole keyboard :/
I finally got time to do a little work on my ErgoDox case. I think this may be the first
gender ambiguous aluminum ErgoDox.
(Attachment Link)
No nuts.
(Attachment Link)
I finally got time to do a little work on my ErgoDox case. I think this may be the first
gender ambiguous aluminum ErgoDox.
(Attachment Link)
No nuts.
(Attachment Link)
is there any consequence of not doing it? don't want to do it over the acrylic.
Well, you have the capaticor wired wrong anyway, so if you don't want to correct it, better thing is to rip out the capacitor entirely, since after all it's considered optional.
I was inquiring about only purchasing a couple of caps. Today I received an email saying that they have black blank dsa keycaps in stock, but none with deep dish nor a homing bump.It'd be nice if they had included deep dish caps for this purpose or something. Maybe we can get a group buy going for this purpose or something.I sent a quote form to SP yesterday asking how much it would be for some DSA blank black deep dish keys. I will report when I get an answer.Show Image(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/33070427.jpg)
is there any consequence of not doing it? don't want to do it over the acrylic.
Well, you have the capaticor wired wrong anyway, so if you don't want to correct it, better thing is to rip out the capacitor entirely, since after all it's considered optional.
To save people time figuring out why their new creation isn't working: it isn't this. The supplied capacitor is ceramic, not electrolytic, so it has no polarity.
I was inquiring about only purchasing a couple of caps. Today I received an email saying that they have black blank dsa keycaps in stock, but none with deep dish nor a homing bump.It'd be nice if they had included deep dish caps for this purpose or something. Maybe we can get a group buy going for this purpose or something.I sent a quote form to SP yesterday asking how much it would be for some DSA blank black deep dish keys. I will report when I get an answer.Show Image(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/33070427.jpg)
Perhaps someone more established within the community than me can setup a group buy for some blank black deep dish pbt (or abs) dsa keycaps. I know a lot of us would be interested!
I know, but still doesn't mean it's not true for at least inquiring. ;D I thought I was the only one having problems finding the home row now. :D:D
is there any consequence of not doing it? don't want to do it over the acrylic.
Well, you have the capaticor wired wrong anyway, so if you don't want to correct it, better thing is to rip out the capacitor entirely, since after all it's considered optional.
To save people time figuring out why their new creation isn't working: it isn't this. The supplied capacitor is ceramic, not electrolytic, so it has no polarity.
He wired the capacitor wrong. In this case, to the wrong holes. Nobody mentioned capacitor polarity. But anyway, he might as well leave the capacitor as is, it's not connected to any other components the way he put it, and since it's optional, there's no harm.
Hah, well, I guess I can't read.
you could probably try to get your hands on the DSA Retro leftovers after they're done and shipped out to the GB participants. Has deep dish keys even for dvorak and colemak layouts. link:http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40175.0Thanks. I actually got in on that group buy. Unfortunately I didn't plan ahead for the ErgoDox so unless I can get the appropriate blanks, my set is going to sit on another keyboard. I will probably use the deep dish keys (since it comes with extras for different layouts) on my ErgoDox if I can't get anything that would match the massdrop set better.
Yes please. Someone should make a thread in the media section of the forums for ErgoDox pictures.Hah, well, I guess I can't read.
Gosh, that was your first post??? Welcome to geekhack, I'm sure your reading will improve as you participate more :-)
How about you post some pics of your ergodox!
How are you using leds on ergodox? On mine with black keycaps from massdrop is led light invisible even on acrylic case :/
How are you using leds on ergodox? On mine with black keycaps from massdrop is led light invisible even on acrylic case :/
LEDs under keys shine out the side of the keys, yes it's not very visible. If you put white keycaps they will show a lot better. The orange LED on the teensy itself is not used by the firmware as is, but you can modify the firmware to make use of it. In my case, I make it light up when I'm out of the default layer... see code patch posted earlier in this thread.
How are you using leds on ergodox? On mine with black keycaps from massdrop is led light invisible even on acrylic case :/
LEDs under keys shine out the side of the keys, yes it's not very visible. If you put white keycaps they will show a lot better. The orange LED on the teensy itself is not used by the firmware as is, but you can modify the firmware to make use of it. In my case, I make it light up when I'm out of the default layer... see code patch posted earlier in this thread.
How are you using leds on ergodox? On mine with black keycaps from massdrop is led light invisible even on acrylic case :/
LEDs under keys shine out the side of the keys, yes it's not very visible. If you put white keycaps they will show a lot better. The orange LED on the teensy itself is not used by the firmware as is, but you can modify the firmware to make use of it. In my case, I make it light up when I'm out of the default layer... see code patch posted earlier in this thread.
yeah, but black caps are more beautiful :)) led on teensy is good idea but still i want some use of bundled leds when I soldered it :)))
Updates on black blank pbt dsa deep dish keycaps (wow what a mouthful!).
I emailed SP about a mass order and the following prices were given (bare in mind that these do not include shipping costs):
5 keys $10.70 each
10 keys $5.60 each
15 keys $3.90 each
25 keys $2.54 each
50 keys $1.52 each
75 keys $1.18 each
100 keys $1.01 each
150 keys $0.84 each
200 keys $0.76 each
250 keys $0.71 each
500 keys $0.61 each
Is anyone interested in running with this information? I would but I still need tospampost more in order to run a group buy. I think we could probably get up to at least 50 keys without much problems with all of the people in the two rounds of ErgoDox buys (and considering that each purchase will be of at least 2 keys).
If you are interested, please make a thread in the interest check section so we can post that link on massdrop and elsewhere.
Is anyone interested in running with this information? I would but I still need toConsidering I'll need 24 myself, I think it'll be quite easy to reach beyond 50 keys. I could make the IC thread, but I'll wait to see if one of the more active members wants to take up the mantle of handling a group buy.spampost more in order to run a group buy. I think we could probably get up to at least 50 keys without much problems with all of the people in the two rounds of ErgoDox buys (and considering that each purchase will be of at least 2 keys).
If you are interested, please make a thread in the interest check section so we can post that link on massdrop and elsewhere.
Sounds great! Just out of curiosity, why 24?Is anyone interested in running with this information? I would but I still need toConsidering I'll need 24 myself, I think it'll be quite easy to reach beyond 50 keys. I could make the IC thread, but I'll wait to see if one of the more active members wants to take up the mantle of handling a group buy.spampost more in order to run a group buy. I think we could probably get up to at least 50 keys without much problems with all of the people in the two rounds of ErgoDox buys (and considering that each purchase will be of at least 2 keys).
If you are interested, please make a thread in the interest check section so we can post that link on massdrop and elsewhere.
Sounds great! Just out of curiosity, why 24?I'm creating four keyboards (two for myself, one for my sister, one for a friend) - three of which are using the PBT DSA sets.
If you're up to it, you could always drill a (very) small hole through those keycaps to let the light shine through.yeah, but black caps are more beautiful :)) led on teensy is good idea but still i want some use of bundled leds when I soldered it :)))How are you using leds on ergodox? On mine with black keycaps from massdrop is led light invisible even on acrylic case :/LEDs under keys shine out the side of the keys, yes it's not very visible. If you put white keycaps they will show a lot better. The orange LED on the teensy itself is not used by the firmware as is, but you can modify the firmware to make use of it. In my case, I make it light up when I'm out of the default layer... see code patch posted earlier in this thread.
I haven't got around to building mine yet and thought it unseemly to have in-key LEDs indicating states unrelated to the key they're under, so I'm thinking of swapping the switch-mounted LEDs with their resistors -- i.e., putting the LEDs where their respective resistors would normally go (just to the left of the Teensy) and vice-versa (most likely putting the resistors on the underside of the PCB and soldering them same-side). They're series circuits, so I think it should work, just gotta take care to maintain proper LED polarity (I gather the + leads should point towards the Teensy), and of course some creative bending of the leads will be necessary to accommodate the solder pad spacing on the PCB. Maybe I should get higher-ohm resistors to dim the LEDs more, since they'd be naked instead of shielded by the keycaps?
Another approach I'm considering is leaving the LEDs soldered where they would normally go, but putting them under the PCB (rather than thru the switches) and leaving long enough leads to bend them over to the left edge of the PCB, so when illuminated they would shine into the left edge of the case.
Hey guys,
I just finished with the right side of my keyboard and just had to test if it works. :D
And I'm amazed, all keys work! :)
I only wonder about the LED of the Num key (from standard layout, switch 5:6).
It's glowing non-stop, also if I push the button.
Is that normal?
Updates on black blank pbt dsa deep dish keycaps (wow what a mouthful!).i keep trawling ebay, wasd, etc looking at printed caps, but this does interest me. as a kinesis user i like the whole home set being deep jobbies, so i'd probably be after 8, maybe 16 to have some ready for the 2nd one i build depending on price.
I emailed SP about a mass order and the following prices were given (bare in mind that these do not include shipping costs):
5 keys $10.70 each
10 keys $5.60 each
...
500 keys $0.61 each
I think we could probably get up to at least 50 keys without much problems with all of the people in the two rounds of ErgoDox buys (and considering that each purchase will be of at least 2 keys).
i keep trawling ebay, wasd, etc looking at printed caps, but this does interest me. as a kinesis user i like the whole home set being deep jobbies, so i'd probably be after 8, maybe 16 to have some ready for the 2nd one i build depending on price.Great! It sounds like we could push a group buy through fairly quickly and still get a pretty good price on the keycaps.
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?
as far as I've tried, and I believe it was mentioned in the notes, the media keys don't work yet, even on windows. not a linux issue.
edit: actually it specifically mentions that it doesn't work on windows. from the configurator notes.
Media Keys
Unfortunately, media keys are not working on Windows at this time. There are however, software solutions, and registry solutions for the brave, to overcome this limitation.
i keep trawling ebay, wasd, etc looking at printed caps, but this does interest me. as a kinesis user i like the whole home set being deep jobbies, so i'd probably be after 8, maybe 16 to have some ready for the 2nd one i build depending on price.Great! It sounds like we could push a group buy through fairly quickly and still get a pretty good price on the keycaps.
Just a small reminder that the DCS keycaps groupbuy ends in 17 hours :
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap-1/talk (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap-1/talk)
We need 11 more "Join now" to reach the $49 price milestone, or 26 "Joins" or "Commit to join" for the $45 lowest price threshold.
Is there a collection of firmwares online?The discussion tab on the configurator page (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/#tab-discussion) has a number of folks sharing links to the layouts they've devised.
This would be a fairly nice thing to be able to browse through layouts, pick one that suits you and install it.
Edit: I'm looking for a German layout, anybody implemented one?
... adding homing keys with a bump and a different color...ooh, good point. something other than black might be good, those kinesis guys know what they're doing it seems:
Thanks for the heads up. The perfect set (for me) would be deep dish in black, so I still plan to go forward with a group buy. But that will be a good plan B.i keep trawling ebay, wasd, etc looking at printed caps, but this does interest me. as a kinesis user i like the whole home set being deep jobbies, so i'd probably be after 8, maybe 16 to have some ready for the 2nd one i build depending on price.Great! It sounds like we could push a group buy through fairly quickly and still get a pretty good price on the keycaps.
In the interim, Signature Plastics has ~153 "DSA - 1X W/ HOMING BUMP - CREAM (WCX)" in stock for $1 a key + S&H. If you can't wait for deep dish keys and don't want to add superglue nubs, this could be a quick stopgap for adding homing keys with a bump and a different color.
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capsinventory.php
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DSAInventory.pdf
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/colors/pbtWhites.JPG
Would be a matter of getting everybody happy with a given color, and PBT colors aren't quite as vivid as the ABS keys used on the Kinesis. Still, even with plain black, it's easy enough to figure out by key shape alone. The deep dish keys have a slightly higher edge ridge, smaller key face, and deeper concave shape. They're different enough to both feel and see the difference.... adding homing keys with a bump and a different color...ooh, good point. something other than black might be good, those kinesis guys know what they're doing it seems:Show Image(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6861/Kinesis%20Advantage%20%282%29_678x452.jpg)
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?I will, and on FreeBSD. You need to set them with the correct scan codes:
Ok, I still have reservations about the thumb cluster reach, but I finally joined the group buy ;DYou will probably want to plate mount the switches, but it's okay to get pcb mount switches as long as you don't mind cutting the two plastic pins on the back of each switch.
A bit naughty as I just got a 2nd Kinesis off fleabay!
So now where can I get MX browns from? And is plate or pcb better?
EF
Is there a collection of firmwares online?
This would be a fairly nice thing to be able to browse through layouts, pick one that suits you and install it.
Edit: I'm looking for a German layout, anybody implemented one?
Unicode characters are not supported in firmware - and can't be, as far as I've been able to see. The people that designed the spec for USB keyboards decided to have them send scan codes (just like keyboards have since the beginning of time, I think) instead of UTF-8 characters. I'm kind of mad at them for that too, lol.
Also, to those wanting international layouts: the USB spec doesn't define those characters explicitly - it defines a more or less US layout + some "international" keys and other things, and expects the rest to be handled in software (for the convenience of hardware manufacturers). So, good news is that your layout is supported by the firmware. Bad news is that I can't tell you how to do it without resorting to Unixish programs and modifying C code ;) - hopefully Jasper's able to get the configurator to detect the keys (though, testing for the detection of keys on keyboards not readily available in the US probably isn't the easiest thing to do - something to bear in mind), or someone else has easier ideas for determining the keycodes and looking up their names in the configurator
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?
dude, dude, dude, woah dude
words can't describe how awesome i think that is and how you integrated the trackball (kensington pro?)
the switches should work, sordna's made palm buttons mod for his kenesis that looked similar http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=26579.0 (the bottom of the original post)
it looks great how its going. i would be really interested how it turns out, maybe get some vinyl wrap, like fake carbon fiber, that you use a heat gun to apply to finish it off making it look like a single unit. i dunno just talking without really thinking
*thumbs up*
Your "fake carbon fiber" comment got me thinking. Why not use carbon fiber?
Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..
So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???
Your "fake carbon fiber" comment got me thinking. Why not use carbon fiber?
:eek: "Smoke 'em if you got 'em", interested to see how this progresses, maybe just go ahead and integrate the pcb into the setup (make your own case)Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..
So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???
i mean that is kind of true but this just shows the ergodox has some potential for some awesome modding. Different styles for different people
i personally prefer some distance apart :)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8101/8659758322_66cbfaae29.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/8659758322/)
Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..
So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???
@kurplop best mod ever.
Now I am a bit curious on how far do u guys keep the ErgoDox apart? I actually keep it quite close together. Doesn't feel that comfortable if it put it far apart.
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?
There is a pull request on github to add the support for the media keys. It seems it is specifically designed for Windows but it might also work on Linux too:
https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/23
so im guessing deep disk means what it sounds like? different from the normal DSA right?You can see a picture of the contrast between DSA deep dish keys and normal DSA keys near the bottom of this page.
is the goal to put these keys where the asdfghjkl; keys are? or just the F and J?, would we want them to be a different color other than black? (for looks)
id get some at that price but i haven't got to the point where i don't need legends yet. not leet enough
i personally prefer some distance apart :
Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..
So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???
Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..
So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???
Actually, there's no need to cut off the extra PCB-mount pins, as the ErgoDox PCB already has holes drilled for them; it can take either kind of switch as-is. If you're going without a mounting plate (i.e., not buying the standard acrylic case supplied with the kit) you would probably want to get switches with the extra PCB-mount pins. I suspect it's also possible and desirable to melt down those side pins (not the big center post) after installation to act as rivet heads against the PCB, further securing the switch to the PCB and taking some strain away from the solder points.... So now where can I get MX browns from? And is plate or pcb better?You will probably want to plate mount the switches, but it's okay to get pcb mount switches as long as you don't mind cutting the two plastic pins on the back of each switch.
Oops, my bad. Thanks for the clarification.Actually, there's no need to cut off the extra PCB-mount pins, as the ErgoDox PCB already has holes drilled for them; it can take either kind of switch as-is. If you're going without a mounting plate (i.e., not buying the standard acrylic case supplied with the kit) you would probably want to get switches with the extra PCB-mount pins. I suspect it's also possible and desirable to melt down those side pins (not the big center post) after installation to act as rivet heads against the PCB, further securing the switch to the PCB and taking some strain away from the solder points.... So now where can I get MX browns from? And is plate or pcb better?You will probably want to plate mount the switches, but it's okay to get pcb mount switches as long as you don't mind cutting the two plastic pins on the back of each switch.
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?
There is a pull request on github to add the support for the media keys. It seems it is specifically designed for Windows but it might also work on Linux too:
https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/23
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?
There is a pull request on github to add the support for the media keys. It seems it is specifically designed for Windows but it might also work on Linux too:
https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/23
I wrote the patch. Have to clean it up and document when I get a chance before it gets merged. It supports Play/Pause, Next Track, Prev Track. I only tested in OS X, but it came from Microsoft documentation (actually it came from Hasu's tmk firmware) so it should work on Windows and I would be shocked if it didn't work in Linux. It's a separate scan code report from normal keys. I could hook up Volume Up and Volume Down media keys if the normal codes aren't working for Linux folk. I didn't bother because the normal key Volume Up and Volume down worked in OS X for me.
Ok, just finished installing stabilizers... A few interesting things to note:
The case is cut/designed wrong for the stabilizer closest to the main key cluster. For the key to align correctly the guides must be put in backwards. This creates it's own set of problems however in that the bars aren't meant to be used on that side of the switch and won't go down all the way as the switch housing interrupts the movement. By reshaping the bar, I got around that particular setback, but created a new one in turn. The newly bent bar ended up interfering with the key cap itself. I had to then shave down the key where the stabilizer was scuffing to fix that.
On the bright side, the key that was giving me a bit more resistance than I would have liked is now better. I doubt if I'll go through the hassle of doing that for the other boards though...
Ok, just finished installing stabilizers... A few interesting things to note:
The case is cut/designed wrong for the stabilizer closest to the main key cluster. For the key to align correctly the guides must be put in backwards. This creates it's own set of problems however in that the bars aren't meant to be used on that side of the switch and won't go down all the way as the switch housing interrupts the movement. By reshaping the bar, I got around that particular setback, but created a new one in turn. The newly bent bar ended up interfering with the key cap itself. I had to then shave down the key where the stabilizer was scuffing to fix that.
On the bright side, the key that was giving me a bit more resistance than I would have liked is now better. I doubt if I'll go through the hassle of doing that for the other boards though...
I also noticed this when I was trying to install some Costar stabilizers. I'm not sure if Cherry ones would work better cause I don't really have any to try or know where to pick some up.Yeah, they aren't really needed - the Kinesis works fine without them. It was more a matter of one key switch being less receptive to off center hits than others that prompted my experimenting with them. I figured since the plate gave me the option, then why not?
Honestly I ended up just removing them because they probably aren't required due to the fact that your thumb is most likely hitting the key the full length anyways, but I'm sure they can't hurt.
I've soldered the right side of my ErgoDox and flashed the firmware on it but I can't see any keypresses and the OS also doesn't detect a new USB device when I plug the keyboard in. Any idea how to debug this?
Thanks in advance!
Sure the loader application actually showed a success message in the status bar when it finished? If you're using Windows, does Device Manager reenumerate when you plug it in? I assume you loaded the firmware via the outboard USB connector (vs. the one on the Teensy).I actually connected the ErgoDox only with the USB connector of the Teensy and incorrectly assumed that it doesn't make a difference whether you use the outboard USB connector or connect to the Teensy directly. But yeah I guess connecting only the Teensy means the rest of the keyboard is unpowered :) Although I don't understand why the ErgoDox didn't show up as a USB device since from the perspective of the Teensy itself there shouldn't be a difference in how you connect it, right?
So, I haven't even got around to building mine yet, but when I went to Radio Shack to get some soldering supplies tonight, I stumbled across a promising solution to the desire for tenting. I found these PCB standoffs, which are basically just coupling nuts:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102848
As it turns out, they're M3 threaded, the same as the screws supplied for the layer case, so they can be used to fashion adjustable legs on the inboard end. Better yet, they're attractively chromed and come in a set of 4 for just $1.99! Use the standoffs instead of the nuts provided with the kit, add a couple additional M3 screws of desired length and adjust to taste, then use the provided nuts as locknuts, like so:
I have a question about the LEDs. Did anyone manage to route the LEDs to the top of the case yet? I find it awkward to have them under keys that have no relation to their function.
I'm thinking of swapping the switch-mounted LEDs with their resistors -- i.e., putting the LEDs where their respective resistors would normally go (just to the left of the Teensy) and vice-versa (most likely putting the resistors on the underside of the PCB and soldering them same-side). They're series circuits, so I think it should work, just gotta take care to maintain proper LED polarity (I gather the + leads should point towards the Teensy), and of course some creative bending of the leads will be necessary to accommodate the solder pad spacing on the PCB.
Another approach I'm considering is leaving the LEDs soldered where they would normally go, but putting them under the PCB (rather than thru the switches) and leaving long enough leads to bend them over to the left edge of the PCB, so when illuminated they would shine into the left edge of the case.
Also, how comfortable is it to type on the classic-case Ergodox without wrists pads/rests on a flat desk?You could use small wrist rests without an attached mousepad, as some have posted earlier in this thread, or just buy a $12 pair of palm pads from Kinesis; any of these would be simple enough to adhere to the full-hand case, which would be necessary if you wanted wrist rests together with tenting.
Here you go. I put them in but one side popped out because the wedge that normally grabs the underside of the plate (on normal keyboards with thin plates) needs to be filed off so it becomes like the red portion in the photo you provided in another thread:Show Image(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41937.0;attach=17766;image)
The Cathode or the black line or the negative side will face the Square pad.I'm making these two for someone else, but I have tried reds on my daily driver for a long while. I had a QFR in reds from PChome when they were first available. I really liked it. If you can "float" your fingers, you can really type fast on it, and gaming was easy too. now I've migrated to heavier switches, and use greens / buckling spring as my daily and sometimes I go to my ergoclears keyboard (phantom)
How do Heavy reds feel? Do they feel more like red's than blacks?
I think the red stem feels more hollow than the blacks and black stems feel a little more "stiff or solid"
What do you have to say?
So, I haven't even got around to building mine yet, but when I went to Radio Shack to get some soldering supplies tonight, I stumbled across a promising solution to the desire for tenting. I found these PCB standoffs, which are basically just coupling nuts:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102848
As it turns out, they're M3 threaded, the same as the screws supplied for the layer case, so they can be used to fashion adjustable legs on the inboard end. Better yet, they're attractively chromed and come in a set of 4 for just $1.99! Use the standoffs instead of the nuts provided with the kit, add a couple additional M3 screws of desired length and adjust to taste, then use the provided nuts as locknuts, like so:
Just FYI... I used a small Dremel Engraving Cutter with a round cutter to make a dent inside each slot at both ends. I am surprised at how well the stab mount works now. No need to file/cut off the snap.My question is how well the acrylic holds up to snapping the mount in and out over time. Seeing as how the notch leaves a rather thin overhang, I feared it breaking off eventually. I mean, obviously it's not something that should be happening on a regular basis, but thin pieces of relatively brittle plastic make me worry.
Perfect. Minimal, elegant, and functional solution. Definitely going to do this as well, but I'm going to see what I can do to make them easily removable without compromising the case integrity.
The threaded stand-offs look good. Just what I need to implement my idea of attaching swivel (leveling) feet.
The feet have a threaded post with a ball-joint foot on the end. So you get fine vertical adjustment (tenting!) plus the rubber foot-pad self-adjusts to the desk surface. They come in every size from industrial machinery downwards. Some M3 threaded versions should be easy to find
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=leveling+feet&rt=nc
Love that tenting idea. Definitely going to give it a try. How was the stability overall? Did you feel a need for support from the third screw?I haven't finished building mine yet, so I can't speak for how well it works in actual practice, but it seems quite stable poking around on it as pictured. The legs are slightly splayed out from vertical due to the tented board angle, so that effectively puts the actual foot closer below that inboard corner you pointed out.
(Attachment Link)
I finished the tray for my ErgoDox. I was going to use a black sheet metal cover for the modified Expert Mouse but when I'd glance at it it reminded me a little too much of Darth Vader. I decided to go with the Executive look. The mahogany doesn't match my desk but I've had a yearning to work with it for some time.
(Attachment Link)
I was surprised at how comfortable it is to use from my lap. The ergonomics are great and it rests solidly and comfortably in my lap. I'll mount it to the desk eventually but I have to troubleshoot a problem first. I'm having trouble getting the scroll wheel to work. I wonder if Kensington will honor the warranty? If anyone has ever modified an E.M. I'd like to hear from you.
(Attachment Link)
This is a view from the monitor. Sorry about the out of focus pictures.
i am speechless,
downright amazing, kurplop. are you a craftsman by profession, or a hobbyist? that is actually really stunning work, both on the alu case and the support structure.Thanks for all the kind words. As most of you know, when we talk to outsiders about our enthusiasm over our "silly" keyboards we're often met with blank stares. It's great to have a community like this that can appreciate our passion.
(Attachment Link)
I finished the tray for my ErgoDox. I was going to use a black sheet metal cover for the modified Expert Mouse but when I'd glance at it it reminded me a little too much of Darth Vader. I decided to go with the Executive look. The mahogany doesn't match my desk but I've had a yearning to work with it for some time.
(Attachment Link)
I was surprised at how comfortable it is to use from my lap. The ergonomics are great and it rests solidly and comfortably in my lap. I'll mount it to the desk eventually but I have to troubleshoot a problem first. I'm having trouble getting the scroll wheel to work. I wonder if Kensington will honor the warranty? If anyone has ever modified an E.M. I'd like to hear from you.
(Attachment Link)
This is a view from the monitor. Sorry about the out of focus pictures.
Kerplop - beautiful build!
What did you finish the wood with?
I've had trouble just keeping steel protected on the high wear parts of keyboards, nvm Mahogany...
For my mousepad I went with end-grain maple, and I need to touch it up to keep it slick every 3-4 months (yay scrapers) I use (mostly because I have it) granite wax for countertops.
WOW! Sordna linked me to this since I'm out of touch these days.
Outstanding work and I'm very impressed with your design. Very impressed.
Ok, here it goes, typical Input Nirvana questions:
Did you take any pics of the mouse work interior?
Is it possible to get a few pics with hand placement, one on keyboard another on the mousing?
Any close-up pics of the sides of the keyboard (front, side, back, under)?
How did you decide the placement of the Ergo-halves?
Any pics of the unit during construction?
How did you decide on the keyboard profiles/design? I like the detail.
I built this about 2 weeks ago for someone, so here is the video of the process. It's a little more detailed than the instructions and video on massdrop, so it might help if you're building for the first time. There is an INDEX in the video description to skip around to certain steps.
I built this about 2 weeks ago for someone, so here is the video of the process. It's a little more detailed than the instructions and video on massdrop, so it might help if you're building for the first time. There is an INDEX in the video description to skip around to certain steps.I want that syringe/heat gun combo. How much did it cost ya?
MassDrop instructions were very vauge
So, I haven't even got around to building mine yet, but when I went to Radio Shack to get some soldering supplies tonight, I stumbled across a promising solution to the desire for tenting. I found these PCB standoffs, which are basically just coupling nuts:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102848
As it turns out, they're M3 threaded, the same as the screws supplied for the layer case, so they can be used to fashion adjustable legs on the inboard end. Better yet, they're attractively chromed and come in a set of 4 for just $1.99! Use the standoffs instead of the nuts provided with the kit, add a couple additional M3 screws of desired length and adjust to taste, then use the provided nuts as locknuts.
I built this about 2 weeks ago for someone, so here is the video of the process. It's a little more detailed than the instructions and video on massdrop, so it might help if you're building for the first time. There is an INDEX in the video description to skip around to certain steps.
I built this about 2 weeks ago for someone, so here is the video of the process. It's a little more detailed than the instructions and video on massdrop, so it might help if you're building for the first time. There is an INDEX in the video description to skip around to certain steps.
im more curious on how to program the light on the teensy board to show which layer i am on.
The capacitor on the I/O expander is a decoupling capacitor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoupling_capacitor), connecting Vcc and GND on the left hand side. I'm afraid I don't understand the subtleties, but I gather it's there to help filter any noise that may come from the right hand side over the power lines, and help keep voltage from dipping as quickly if the left hand side power consumption suddenly spikes for some reason.
Does anyone know how think the acrylic plates are? Thinking about making one out of aluminum with the same dimensions as the acrylic.Very close to 1.5mm for costar stabilisers.
Does anyone know how think the acrylic plates are? Thinking about making one out of aluminum with the same dimensions as the acrylic.
Does anyone know how think the acrylic plates are? Thinking about making one out of aluminum with the same dimensions as the acrylic.
FWIW, I reckon an aluminum mounting plate could prolly be just 3/32-1/8" (2-3mm) thick, which would allow more clearance between the plate and PCB, allowing the use of top-mounted thru-hole diodes.Does anyone know how think the acrylic plates are? Thinking about making one out of aluminum with the same dimensions as the acrylic.
From the Massdrop staff in the comments of the latest GB:
Jasper @ cpf Apr. 15, 2013
@cpf the top/bottom sheet is 3/32" and the middle sheets are 3/16". the bottom-most middle sheet (layer 4 according to Step 22 of https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/assembly) can be made as thick as you want, though 3/16" is around as thin as you should go for sufficient capacitor clearance.
I have two dead keys on my Dox, anybody know what could be know causes/ solutions? I am pretty sure they worked before.
I have two dead keys on my Dox, anybody know what could be know causes/ solutions? I am pretty sure they worked before.
FWIW, I reckon an aluminum mounting plate could prolly be just 3/32-1/8" (2-3mm) thick, which would allow more clearance between the plate and PCB, allowing the use of top-mounted thru-hole diodes.Does anyone know how think the acrylic plates are? Thinking about making one out of aluminum with the same dimensions as the acrylic.
From the Massdrop staff in the comments of the latest GB:
Jasper @ cpf Apr. 15, 2013
@cpf the top/bottom sheet is 3/32" and the middle sheets are 3/16". the bottom-most middle sheet (layer 4 according to Step 22 of https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/assembly) can be made as thick as you want, though 3/16" is around as thin as you should go for sufficient capacitor clearance.
Seeing the cherry mx plate mount specifications, the mounting plate (no 3) has 0.06 ± 0.004 inch thickness.
From the top of the plate to the top of the PCB you have 0.197 inch. As the PCBs are designed for PCB mount as well, and the PCBs for that should have 0.06 inch, I'd take an educated guess that layer no 2 has 0.197 inch.
FWIW, I reckon an aluminum mounting plate could prolly be just 3/32-1/8" (2-3mm) thick, which would allow more clearance between the plate and PCB, allowing the use of top-mounted thru-hole diodes.Does anyone know how think the acrylic plates are? Thinking about making one out of aluminum with the same dimensions as the acrylic.
From the Massdrop staff in the comments of the latest GB:
Jasper @ cpf Apr. 15, 2013
@cpf the top/bottom sheet is 3/32" and the middle sheets are 3/16". the bottom-most middle sheet (layer 4 according to Step 22 of https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/assembly (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/assembly)) can be made as thick as you want, though 3/16" is around as thin as you should go for sufficient capacitor clearance.
WFD, thanks for making the ErgoDox assembly video. You should be a neurosurgeon with those hands. Mine hands shake more than my old Rambler with the bent front wheel.
The plate that holds the switch must be between 1/16" and 3/16". It can't be thicker, otherwise the switches won't sit flush on the PCB, but rather blocked by the acrylic. You can go with aluminum or steel to make it thinner, however if you do, then the middle layer (right below the layer that the switches are mounted into) must be thicker to keep the PCB elevated by the same height. If the PCB is too low, then the switches and solder joint hits the bottom layer acrylic.
LEDs on the left (MCP23018) side! :cool:
(Attachment Link)
Sorry for the blurry pic. Right now they only light up at init and go out after a second so not enough time to get a good snapshot.
I mounted them so they show out the inner side. The MCP23018 will only sink current so it would require hacking the PCB to get LEDs to work under the keys.
Here is the modification. Resistors for LEDa and LEDb are in the same place as the Teensy side (they go to pins 9/GPB6 and 10/GPB7). LEDc resistor is in the shrink wrap going to pin 27 (GPA7). The 3 red wires are +5V. Resistors are all 330. LEDs are LTL-433 (flat) series.
(Attachment Link)
They work a bit differently than the Teensy LEDs. State changes are not immediate. The LED settings are piggybacked on to the normal traffic going to the MCP23018.
I've attached the diffs against partial-rewrite branch. All they do is flash on during init. If I can figure out where the "current layer" is remembered I will probably use them to show the layer.
Wow, nice! I see that 3 pins on the IO expander are not soldered. I didn't see that in the assembly instructions. Why are those 3 pins not soldered?
Wow, nice! I see that 3 pins on the IO expander are not soldered. I didn't see that in the assembly instructions. Why are those 3 pins not soldered?
I don't think you can solder them, there are no pads there. As far as I can tell they're not used in the design, and not including pads for them frees up a little space for traces in that area where it's pretty tight.
I have a question about the LEDs. Did anyone manage to route the LEDs to the top of the case yet? I find it awkward to have them under keys that have no relation to their function.
I had the same inclination, so this may be relevant to your interests:I'm thinking of swapping the switch-mounted LEDs with their resistors -- i.e., putting the LEDs where their respective resistors would normally go (just to the left of the Teensy) and vice-versa (most likely putting the resistors on the underside of the PCB and soldering them same-side). They're series circuits, so I think it should work, just gotta take care to maintain proper LED polarity (I gather the + leads should point towards the Teensy), and of course some creative bending of the leads will be necessary to accommodate the solder pad spacing on the PCB.
Another approach I'm considering is leaving the LEDs soldered where they would normally go, but putting them under the PCB (rather than thru the switches) and leaving long enough leads to bend them over to the left edge of the PCB, so when illuminated they would shine into the left edge of the case.
So, I haven't even got around to building mine yet, but when I went to Radio Shack to get some soldering supplies tonight, I stumbled across a promising solution to the desire for tenting. I found these PCB standoffs, which are basically just coupling nuts:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102848
@Unix Guru
Nice indeed :-) . Layer stuff is kept track of here (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/blob/partial-rewrite/firmware/keyboard/ergodox/layout/common/exec_key.c.h#L32).
Edit:
Though, if it were me, I'd probably define new layer push-pop functions (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/blob/partial-rewrite/firmware/keyboard/ergodox/layout/common/keys.c.h#L101) that called the kb__led__(on|off) functions (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/blob/partial-rewrite/firmware/keyboard.h#L42) directly, instead of handling things in the exec_key() function. Sorry the documentation and such on this branch isn't finished yet. Glad to see someone using it anyway though :-) .
Wow, nice! I see that 3 pins on the IO expander are not soldered. I didn't see that in the assembly instructions. Why are those 3 pins not soldered?
I don't think you can solder them, there are no pads there. As far as I can tell they're not used in the design, and not including pads for them frees up a little space for traces in that area where it's pretty tight.
LEDs on the left (MCP23018) side! :cool:
LEDs on the left (MCP23018) side! :cool:
... and I noticed that some people have GUI keys ... Can someone explain their function, or is it one of those "If you have to ask you don't need to know"?
Ah! Thanks for enlightening me.... and I noticed that some people have GUI keys ... Can someone explain their function, or is it one of those "If you have to ask you don't need to know"?
The GUI keys are "windows" keys on Windows, and "command" keys on Macs - and "GUI" keys in the USB spec :-)
It seems modifying the Kicad files posted on Ergodox.org (http://ergodox.org/Downloads/ErgoDox_PCB_Designed_by_pbiphany.zip) can be a good start but I do not have any experience with PCB design.I have had lots of ideas of using the existing PCB, cut it here and there and place switches in new locations... I wrote them down, but have edited them away because nobody cares anyway.
Anyway, if you do edit the layout for a new run of keyboards (ErgoDox 2.0), I have a few suggestions:I do not have expertise to modify and run an ErgoDox 2.0 but some of your ideas are really intriguing.
I had a similar problem and couldn't "make clean". However if you put a ".gitignore" file in the src directory with these contents:
*.eep
*.elf
*.hex
*.map
*.o
*.o.dep
then you should be able to do "make clean" and "make"
You are lacking a .git subdirectory in the parent directory of src ... you are probably working off the firmware from massdrop site. You need to do this:
git clone git://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware.git
to download the firmware properly from github. Then edit src/makefile and change:
git clean -dX
to:
git clean -dXf
Then make and "make clean" will work.
Any firmware you download from massdrop's generator, merge into your git clone directory, so you always have the other bits in place. Actually massdrop's generator only changes one or two files when you generate a custom layout, so you can just copy them over.
Does anyone play starcraft 2 with an ergodox?I plan on doing so.
I think it would be quite nice if you could have ctrl on your thumb instead of pinky when playing.
I have a weird problem: I cannot compile on my PC.
I always get the error message "Interrupt/Exception caught <code = 0x00000fd, addr = 0x4217b3>"
It's not the code, compiles fine on my laptop. Same environment (W8 64bit) with WinAVR.
Any ideas?
I plan on doing so.
An ErgoDox implementation of theCore (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341878) would be very comfortable and efficient. I currently use theCore now on a regular keyboard (low masters Terran) and the ErgoDox will fix every problem I have with the layout.
I have been toying with the idea of either bending my second set of ErgoDox pcb's to curve down at the thumb clusters or cutting the thumb clusters from the rest and soldering jumpers to reconnect the circuits in a new position. What kind of trouble should I anticipate?I have also been toying with ideas for mods, but none that required breaking any trace on the PCB.
One thing I still don't understand, even with the current design: why the large keys for thumbs? All our lives we used our thumbs against 1x tall spacebars; why change now? You could even fit a second key there instead of a 2x tall. In fact if the ergodox case supported it I would have used the 80 key layout myself.
I am leaning towards getting a pair of plates made with the layout below. I think this would be the most reachable thumbkey layout. The outermost thumb key can not have Costar-style stabilisers.
(Attachment Link)
I have another question concerning the ErgoDox.
I usually have the two halves of the keyboard quite close together. So I would really like to use a shorter cable to connect them.
Can I just use any cable with stereo jack or does it have to be a specific one?
I am using the leftmost key on the bottom row to quickly push/pop layers with my thumb. So I am interested in keeping those.Well, the mod would in effect just move that key slightly to the left.
Have you done any drilling on your current board?I have drilled my right one, using a dremel tool. I realized that I should really use a proper drill press when drilling the left one. Because the new pinholes are through the ESD/grounding planes, I will also need to lacquer the pinholes to avoid a short-circuit. A plate will be necessary for keeping the switch in place.
I am using the leftmost key on the bottom row to quickly push/pop layers with my thumb. So I am interested in keeping those.Well, the mod would in effect just move that key slightly to the left.
I am not making a new PCB, just thinking of how to best to use the existing PCB. I had planned from the start to build my own case, use sculpted key caps and use PCB-mounting of switches, but then I noticed that I would need a plate anyway if I want 1u keys in the outermost columns, so I will be making a pair of plates.Have you done any drilling on your current board?I have drilled my right one, using a dremel tool. I realized that I should really use a proper drill press when drilling the left one. Because the new pinholes are through the ESD/grounding planes, I will also need to lacquer the pinholes to avoid a short-circuit. A plate will be necessary for keeping the switch in place.
Would you mind sharing a picture of your board in its current state?Not at all. Not pretty, though. Late at night now, so sorry about the poor lighting.
Not at all. Not pretty, though. Late at night now, so sorry about the poor lighting.
The drill holes are so ugly because I tried first to grind off some of the the ESD plane around the holes. I should just have let it be, and paint it.
(Attachment Link)
BTW, it appears that a 1.25 key fits in the new key position. :D
Another problem I have now.. is sourcing the I/O expander. I can't find it in Sweden, and shipping from Mouser or DigiKey is expensive. :(
yep it can go plateless and use pcb-only though the massdrop litster-style case will not allow that
maybe we can get a shapeways shell designed and made to place the ergodox in and use pcb mounted-no plate required so any layout would work i would actually be interested in doing this as i think it was the original intent by the ergodox team to have a shell made instead of the litster case.
yep it can go plateless and use pcb-only though the massdrop litster-style case will not allow that
maybe we can get a shapeways shell designed and made to place the ergodox in and use pcb mounted-no plate required so any layout would work i would actually be interested in doing this as i think it was the original intent by the ergodox team to have a shell made instead of the litster case.
There is a shell available on shapeways (actually, 3 - flat, slanted, tented), it's just much more expensive than litster's design.
Here us my layout for SC2. I am thinking about making a layer for each race. I currently have the first layer for gaming and second for typing.Why make a hardware layout on the ergodox when you can modify your hotkeys in game to serve the same effect?
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=9D5T3A&hash=21c1c6029e90ca9702c50c862fe3b2f7
I play UMS games as well as ladder. If I use anything else besides standard, it messes up. Some things lose their hotkeys.Ah yeah, good point. I'm not a big arcade player.
If you dont get what I am saying just make any custom ingame layout and play an arcadr game. You may notice some of the hotkeys arent bound.
a hardware layer could also be brought over to another pc to play the same game without having to do the remaps all over again. plug and play, literally.Well if we are talking SC2, all of the hotkeys are tied to your account iirc.
maybe we can get a shapeways shell designed [...]I don't think building a case would be that difficult, depending on what material you want. A case does not need to be much more than a box with a bottom. The PCB would rests on spacers on the bottom. There are several 1/4" holes in each PCB where I think that you can put nylon spacers. Put bolts or screws through these spacers to hold the case together.
Not at all. Not pretty, though. Late at night now, so sorry about the poor lighting.After some playing with KiCAD I moved the new holes more to the right so now I can fit a 1.5X perpendicular to the thumb keys.
The drill holes are so ugly because I tried first to grind off some of the the ESD plane around the holes. I should just have let it be, and paint it.
(Attachment Link)
BTW, it appears that a 1.25 key fits in the new key position. :D
Cool! But you would have to find a new place to fit the diode.
Btw, your circuit diagram has holes for PCB-mounted stabilizers. There are leads in the way for those holes on the production PCBs ...I think they are shown from bphiphanies original design, I'm not using them.
I dremeled the holes with a conical grinding bit to remove metal from the edges, but that did of course expose metal in a ring around each hole.
Another idea I had was to solder wires to the switch pins and using something (shrink-tubing if possible, shrink-wrap or lacquer otherwise :-\ ) to insulate the pins before mounting the switch.
My original ErgoDox is now complete, with DSA keycaps!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Hj4TqAk.jpg)
yeah, I didn't do anything with my ergodox after I finished designing the acrylic cases. Then I put it away for months, and just dug it back out just to install the new DSA caps on it.
... I have problem with V, C, and the arrow keys. But the rest of the layout I think I can get used to, since I made it very close to the normal QWERTY layout.
WOW! Sordna linked me to this since I'm out of touch these days.
Outstanding work and I'm very impressed with your design. Very impressed.
Ok, here it goes, typical Input Nirvana questions:
Did you take any pics of the mouse work interior?
Is it possible to get a few pics with hand placement, one on keyboard another on the mousing?
Any close-up pics of the sides of the keyboard (front, side, back, under)?
How did you decide the placement of the Ergo-halves?
Any pics of the unit during construction?
How did you decide on the keyboard profiles/design? I like the detail.
Talk about WOW! To be noticed by the two Guru's of Kinesis modifications is quite an honor.
I hope to start a new thread on my project so as not to take up too much space on this one but a few quick responses here.
You realize of course that showing the unfinished underside of my keyboard is like showing up for an underwear modeling gig before I had time to shave my back, but here goes. :-[
(Attachment Link)
Sorry the pictures are so out of focus. The top button is set for click and the thumb falls naturally to it. The left button is set for right click and it's very easy to get to. The others are set for forward and back in OSX and middle click in Windows. They are not as easy to reach while using the ball but that's the beauty of a center mount trackball where you can assist with the other hand.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
One final picture here of the mockup I made to help me determine the placement of things. I used hot glue to make a "hinge" and two wood scraps to find the best tenting angle for me. The amount of splaying and separation between units was predetermined by how my arms naturally lay.
(Attachment Link)
I have more pictures I will post soon in another thread.
As you can see I have Kinesis-style arrow keys on L0, and I've tried to use them but they just confuse me and trip me up. I'll figure out a better purpose for these keys at some point because I'm all about my layered WASD arrow keys!
2 items that capture my initial interest:
#1- The warmth of the wood and the design are very notable, far more than just a nice touch. I appreciate the use of natural materials. We are after all, natural beings. Paint, plastic, sheetrock get old very quickly.
#2- The physical placement of the halves relative to each other and the mousing.
Please make the separate thread/article, it's a huge benefit.
HILARIOUS SIDE NOTE: 99.999999% of all keyboards are a single keyboard. A couple have a separated hand design but are still a single keyboard (ex:Kinesis Advantage). The Ergodox was designed to be a true split 2 piece keyboard, and Kurplop made it into a single keyboard! LOL Ya gotta see the irony in that!
Shift your LALT to where your caplock is and shift the caplocks to another layer, since I imagine you wouldn't actually be toggling CAPS status very often.Also note that the firmware handles RShift+LShift as a CapsLock toggle, so there's no need for a dedicated CapsLock key. :)
Also note that the firmware handles RShift+LShift as a CapsLock toggle, so there's no need for a dedicated CapsLock key. :)
i am speechless,
it's very very easy to implement when you download the source from the massdrop configurator. makes for a good introductory step into more serious firmware hacking. someone ought to thank the guy that did all the hard work on that firmware stuff.Also note that the firmware handles RShift+LShift as a CapsLock toggle, so there's no need for a dedicated CapsLock key. :)
"Can handle" to be laboriously accurate about things :). Important because I'm not sure the massdrop generated layouts use the feature.
Sorry the late reply - just finished my last final today! (for the semester at least) :)congrats :)
A flashing state for the LED is pretty good, lol - that timer and interrupt stuff isn't the most intuitive (at least, it wasn't for me).heh, you haven't seen how i did it ;)
The new branch ... layers are much easier to modify in source since there's only one matrix instead of three ...w00t. that was one of the things i was wondering about hacking at :) i shall try to have a look through and see what I can do with it soon.
Firmware is very hackable, I now made the teensy LED light up whenever I am not in the main layer, it's super useful, and shows very nicely through the acrylic case! Code patch below, includes the buzzer stuff.
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as they already have 1x Ctrl/Alt/Win keys, and their otherwise-terrible Cherry MY keyswitches happen to use MX-compatible keycaps, at least for all keys relevant to the ErgoDox. This guy has like 300 of them in stock (http://www.ebay.com/itm/400477813233); I made an offer of $5 (+S/H) and got a counteroffer of $7.50, which I accepted, so $21.50 shipped for a decent set of caps wasn't too shabby a deal.
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as they already have 1x Ctrl/Alt/Win keys, and their otherwise-terrible Cherry MY keyswitches happen to use MX-compatible keycaps, at least for all keys relevant to the ErgoDox. This guy has like 300 of them in stock (http://www.ebay.com/itm/400477813233); I made an offer of $5 (+S/H) and got a counteroffer of $7.50, which I accepted, so $21.50 shipped for a decent set of caps wasn't too shabby a deal.
That's a great idea. I've never used a POM key set before, unless the old POS keyboards I used to use at retail jobs were POM keys when I had just assumed they were filthy and disgusting. Also, I happen to notice that these are used card-swipe keyboards, which means they might have that same feel and send me into ****ty-job PTSD. Heh. But hey, for $10 maybe I'll pick up a couple and see if they're not totally revolting; those 1x mod keys would be nice for the dox too.
Also I had no idea that MY switches could use MX caps...learn something new every day.
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as theyCan you please post a closeup of the Backspace key? Does it have a flat profile?
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as theyCan you please post a closeup of the Backspace key? Does it have a flat profile?
Thanks for the detailed pictures. Is that SHIFT key a 1.5X ?
Fairly flat faced, with a slight cylindrical scoop of course, similar to DCS (http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-caps.php) Row 1, whereas the Shift
(Attachment Link)
Fairly flat faced, with a slight cylindrical scoop of course, similar to DCS (http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-caps.php) Row 1, whereas the ShiftThanks for the detailed pictures. Is that SHIFT key a 1.5X ?
2. Does it have full NKRO over USB?It is 6 keys + 8 modifiers.
3) What?I was curious as well and this is what I found:
And now I just got to wait for a round 3 .. hopefully there will be one!I think they ran Round 2 once the post-Round 1 Requesters count got up near 300, and post-Round 2 Requesters are now at 131, so we may be getting there...
Hell yeah.. my round 2 'dox should be here tomorrow!Mines comin the day after. Gonna be awesome.
this is a question because i am right now a bit busy to do research,
does anyone know whats the exact type of screws used with the massdrop litster case?
Missed the GB
Wish I could get my hands on one.
Anyone knows if there will be another GB?
And now I just got to wait for a round 3 .. hopefully there will be one!I think they ran Round 2 once the post-Round 1 Requesters count got up near 300, and post-Round 2 Requesters are now at 131, so we may be getting there...
Anyone who wants another round, be sure to click the Request button on the ErgoDox Round 2 page (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-2)!
So..... anyone know whut's the latest with the mediakeys, copy/paste, and volume control?
we've been moving pretty quickly here at massdrop so unfortunately i haven't had much time to develop the configurator further. i have a giant list of changes i've compiled from the discussion here that i will get to...eventually.
Yay! Round 2 on Massdrop has shipped!3) What?I was curious as well and this is what I found:
Plover is an open-source stenography program. Essentially, it's a way for people to type really fast (well over 150 WPM). It requires NKRO as far as I know.
The ergodox fasteners are M2.5 - 0.5 x 22 yea?
Ordering a case with one size color for inner layers and a different size/color for the outer. Probably black inner and white outer.The Massdrop case uses 1/8" for the outer layers and 3/16" for the inners. Using 1/8" for the middle layer 3 (switch mounting plate) would allow room to top-mount thru-hole diodes on the PCB, but then you may need a thicker 1/4" layer 2 below that, or two 1/8" layer 2s, to allow enough room for the PCB and solder bumps.
What is the best size to use? Options are 1/8, 3/16, and 1/16.
So..... anyone know whut's the latest with the mediakeys, copy/paste, and volume control?
Last word from Jasper at Massdrop suggests he may eventually get the Configurator working with those:Quote from: Jasper@Massdropwe've been moving pretty quickly here at massdrop so unfortunately i haven't had much time to develop the configurator further. i have a giant list of changes i've compiled from the discussion here that i will get to...eventually.
http://ergodox.org/Downloads.aspxOhh, I've missed that - I got all other files but the dxf.
You might try pcbwing, since that's where all the PCBs made to date, that I know of, have been printed...
The (second) Massdrop group buy just closed (or, just shipped, rather). The first one went really well. I'm sure the second one has been too. There may be another, once registered interest gets high enough.
But if you wana start your own group buy go for it :) . There was talk of that a while ago on DT, but it never coalesced.
The ergodox fasteners are M2.5 - 0.5 x 22 yea?I have a few spare bolts and nuts if you need a few. PM me.
I got one quote at PCBWing:You may be able to avoid the tooling cost, since PCBWing already made tooling for Massdrop's round 1 and likely reused it for round 2 and will retain it pending a probable round 3, which I'm pretty certain will happen sooner or later.
- 2 x 184mm x 160mm is something like US$ 123,02 (US$ 62,24 per board)
- 20 x is US$ 270,24 (US$ 13,51 per board)
I'm choosing 10 days, the tooling is US$ 106,06 for both options above.
The interesting thing is that after 17 boards the tooling is ZERO if you do the same order again (it's right? I'm not sure of it)
Hello everyone,
- I just came across this wonderful project of yours and I was wondering if you plan any 3rd round for ErgoDox so that I could jump onto the bandwaggon, too!?
- I read in the initial posting of this thread that a price of appox 400$ was estimated but that that could be reduced a lot if enough people participate. Could anybody please tell me what the final prices had been for round 1 and round 2?
- In which country are the PCB printed and all the parts brought together and shipped from? Do those organizators of the project ship to the EU?
Thanks for any feedback & Happy hacking!
You may be able to avoid the tooling cost, since PCBWing already made tooling for Massdrop's round 1 and likely reused it for round 2 and will retain it pending a probable round 3, which I'm pretty certain will happen sooner or later.I'm not sure of it - we would have to use the same account/file name used by massdrop. Unless someone get this info I'm not sure if we will be able to use this "discount".
PCBWing seems to be reasonable, though,Hi Hasu!
Try chinese cheap PCB service unless you need overly quality.
Such like elecrow.com or Fusion PCB at seeedstudio.com.
International shipping from China or Hongkong is usually very very cheap.
You may be able to avoid the tooling cost, since PCBWing already made tooling for Massdrop's round 1 and likely reused it for round 2 and will retain it pending a probable round 3, which I'm pretty certain will happen sooner or later.I'm not sure of it - we would have to use the same account/file name used by massdrop. Unless someone get this info I'm not sure if we will be able to use this "discount".
Massdrop has been doing a good job so far, no? Pushing for more people showing interest to them probably is a good way to get a third buy going.Never got anything at there.
Massdrop has been doing a good job so far, no? Pushing for more people showing interest to them probably is a good way to get a third buy going.Never got anything at there.
I'm interested only at the PCB - it would be cheaper for me since I do already have all parts at here.
Fusion PCB:
for 20 boards (20cm x 20cm, 2 layers) it would be US$ 190,00 (US$ 9,5 per board, without shipping and proxy).
Elecrow:
for 50 boards (20cm x 20cm, 2 layers) it would be US$ 230,00 (US$ 4,6 per board, without shipping and proxy).
Who wanna join me?
:D
...If you have a mac, the volume control keys already work (and have all along), but I don't recall hearing whether they work on other systems...They work fine for me in OSX, as you expect, but when I bootcamp into windows they do nothing, whereas my apple keyboard's volume buttons work fine. i'm not sure if this is some driver level thing in the bootcamp software though, whereby it recognises that it's an apple board and responds to that particular button press with magic. the default behaviour of the "fn" key to swap between function keys and media/os keys is controlled in the bootcamp software, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was trickery involved as it definitely has some hooks in.
Massdrop has been doing a good job so far, no? Pushing for more people showing interest to them probably is a good way to get a third buy going.
i like to judge a company on how well it handles problems - it's nice when everything goes smoothly, but that doesn't always happen and different companies can display very different attitudes to resolution of issues - and so i'd say that they are doing an excellent job. i had a few parts missing from my order and found them extremely helpful getting things sorted out. they were excellent at communicating what was going on with acquiring my missing bits, and they shipped them over to the UK as they were available rather than waiting until they had everything together. that showed that they were more concerned with giving me good service, allowing me to get on with parts of the construction from the components i had available, than saving on the hefty international shipping bills. yeah, shipping should be at their expense as it was their mistake, but taking the extra hit was very customer focussed of them.Massdrop has been doing a good job so far, no?...Since it got some keyboards shipped I guess it's good enough...
I'm perfectly ok with waiting on the Massdrop round 3 to occur. It's been about three weeks since I requested at the round 2 page and there's been about 35 people that have shown interest since then. It's slowly getting up to a large enough number.How much was the price of the last batch? 300 bucks?
I'm perfectly ok with waiting on the Massdrop round 3 to occur. It's been about three weeks since I requested at the round 2 page and there's been about 35 people that have shown interest since then. It's slowly getting up to a large enough number.How much was the price of the last batch? 300 bucks?
It was $199 USD. If you wanted to add the blank black PBT DSA caps that added another $37 USD. So a total out-of-the-box complete kit ran $236 USD.Awesome price indeed!
I'm perfectly ok with waiting on the Massdrop round 3 to occur. It's been about three weeks since I requested at the round 2 page and there's been about 35 people that have shown interest since then. It's slowly getting up to a large enough number.How much was the price of the last batch? 300 bucks?
It was $199 USD. If you wanted to add the blank black PBT DSA caps that added another $37 USD. So a total out-of-the-box complete kit ran $236 USD.
I'm perfectly ok with waiting on the Massdrop round 3 to occur. It's been about three weeks since I requested at the round 2 page and there's been about 35 people that have shown interest since then. It's slowly getting up to a large enough number.How much was the price of the last batch? 300 bucks?
It was $199 USD. If you wanted to add the blank black PBT DSA caps that added another $37 USD. So a total out-of-the-box complete kit ran $236 USD.
Was that with switches, or just the PCB+case?
Case => US$ 50,00
Also, if you can get a case for $50, that's a really good deal. And if you just want certain parts (everything but the case?) in a configuration not available through the order page, Massdrop would probably be willing to give you a special order at a fair price. They were *super* accommodating with that the first run - though I suppose it'd be safer to ask them, and make sure they didn't have to cut back on special orders on the second :)As I said before - I never bought anything on this site.
...If you have a mac, the volume control keys already work (and have all along), but I don't recall hearing whether they work on other systems...They work fine for me in OSX, as you expect, but when I bootcamp into windows they do nothing, whereas my apple keyboard's volume buttons work fine. i'm not sure if this is some driver level thing in the bootcamp software though, whereby it recognises that it's an apple board and responds to that particular button press with magic. the default behaviour of the "fn" key to swap between function keys and media/os keys is controlled in the bootcamp software, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was trickery involved as it definitely has some hooks in.
in fact, does windows actually have a concept of volume control from the keyboard, or is it just something that always needs additional drivers? my old microsoft ergo 4000 had some such keys, but also wanted to install a bunch of custom software to control it all. We might need to make our doxen pretend to be another type of board and hijack their tools, or write some driverish code to handle it.
Massdrop has been doing a good job so far, no? Pushing for more people showing interest to them probably is a good way to get a third buy going.Never got anything at there.
I'm interested only at the PCB - it would be cheaper for me since I do already have all parts at here.
(BTW, I'm typing this on my new ErgoDox, was a bit slow going at first but rapidly getting up to speed, definitely liking it already... :D )Show off!!
Ordering a case with one size color for inner layers and a different size/color for the outer. Probably black inner and white outer.The Massdrop case uses 1/8" for the outer layers and 3/16" for the inners. Using 1/8" for the middle layer 3 (switch mounting plate) would allow room to top-mount thru-hole diodes on the PCB, but then you may need a thicker 1/4" layer 2 below that, or two 1/8" layer 2s, to allow enough room for the PCB and solder bumps.
What is the best size to use? Options are 1/8, 3/16, and 1/16.
Can somebody post a right/wrong pic of how to orient the SMDs? That would be immensely helpful
well that was quickLooks like we only need 100 buy-ins to unlock the deepest discount; wasn't that threshold more like 200 for the last couple rounds?
not sure if it will be successful in round 3 though.
2. the thumb key positioning is total balls.
if i could do it again, i would buy a point of sale matrix keyboard.
Any possibility of an aluminum case only GB for the ergodox? I'm an aluminum snob. :)
Just a small follow up. I finally got the leftmost row of the right side to work. One of the solders on a LED was to widely spread and created a short. For those with a similar issue, here was the symptoms:each keys of the colums 7 would get all the keys of its row to be registered (but not the key itself). Because the board can use SMD and "regular" diodes, I was confident that the SMD could use any of the two holes on each side without creating a short. Making the same assumption about the LEDs (i.e. the second closest hole also works the same) led me to my mistake. I hope this small explanation can help others not to reproduce the same error.
Also, I wanted to say that I'm really impressed by the key configurator provided on the massdrop website. It makes key reconfiguration dead simple. I'm using the bépo keymap (optimized French keymap, pretty much like dvorak) and it requires some key remapping to make the default qwerty mapping saner in that configuration (namely, the right alt was not accessible).
Regards,
shad
P.-S.: I typed this message using my ergodox. It takes some time to get used to, but I'm quite confident that I'll be able to type at the same speed in a matter of days (coming from a Typematrix 2030 keyboard).
I want to buy one.
What do I do?
May I come to get it and pay on the spot?
I don't want to deal with massdrop.
--Vladimir T.
Do you guys think that there is enough interest for the $200 board to go through this time?
Also how long did it take for everything to get to the buyers after the GB ended?
Keyboard looks really good.
Speaking of which, I got the full hand case, and while I love the wrist rests, I know I'm gonna sweat all over them. Anybody got any ideas about something I can put on them to help mitigate that?
man i really wish massdrop offered different acrylic colors like solid black. its a shame, i really dislike the completely clear so much. The cases litster made awhile back for the filco/phantom were different colors and i really think it looks better with it layered like that, like if they made them with black top and bottom and clear center. Or maybe a whole other case option. What i'm getting at is It just sucks seeing round three with the exact same options as round 2.
man i really wish massdrop offered different acrylic colors like solid black. its a shame, i really dislike the completely clear so much. The cases litster made awhile back for the filco/phantom were different colors and i really think it looks better with it layered like that, like if they made them with black top and bottom and clear center. Or maybe a whole other case option. What i'm getting at is It just sucks seeing round three with the exact same options as round 2.
Unfortunately since I don't have the actual PCBs I would need help testing the fit, but it's possible that I could produce some alternative colors if people were interested. I have access to 3 laser cutters at work that I have free reign with at the end of the day.
Unfortunately since I don't have the actual PCBs I would need help testing the fit, but it's possible that I could produce some alternative colors if people were interested. I have access to 3 laser cutters at work that I have free reign with at the end of the day.
go to ergodox.org, they have a file for the case and PCB
Looking into it a little further, it seems that Plover can work without NKRO (http://plover.stenoknight.com/2011/02/plover-211-released.html), provided one is willing to "arpeggiate" the keys. Not sure how much of a pain that might be...It's a big pain... It's kind of tricky and slow to do, even for testing purposes.
any key cap recommandations?
since the dsa seems dont have the bump on 'f' and 'j'
Anyone from the UK ordered one of these from a previous Massdrop sale? The few times I've ordered from Massdrop I've been stung by customs, so just wondering if anyone from the UK can confirm their customs fees.
I'm going to be using 8 on my board. I think I ordered 10 or 12, if I did I'll give ya a couple.
Looking into it a little further, it seems that Plover can work without NKRO (http://plover.stenoknight.com/2011/02/plover-211-released.html), provided one is willing to "arpeggiate" the keys. Not sure how much of a pain that might be...It's a big pain... It's kind of tricky and slow to do, even for testing purposes.
My experience trying to arpeggiate was disappointing.
(But Plover is working well for me now with a keyboard that has full NKRO.)
Just a small follow up. I finally got the leftmost row of the right side to work. One of the solders on a LED was to widely spread and created a short. For those with a similar issue, here was the symptoms:each keys of the colums 7 would get all the keys of its row to be registered (but not the key itself). Because the board can use SMD and "regular" diodes, I was confident that the SMD could use any of the two holes on each side without creating a short. Making the same assumption about the LEDs (i.e. the second closest hole also works the same) led me to my mistake. I hope this small explanation can help others not to reproduce the same error.
Also, I wanted to say that I'm really impressed by the key configurator provided on the massdrop website. It makes key reconfiguration dead simple. I'm using the bépo keymap (optimized French keymap, pretty much like dvorak) and it requires some key remapping to make the default qwerty mapping saner in that configuration (namely, the right alt was not accessible).
Regards,
shad
P.-S.: I typed this message using my ergodox. It takes some time to get used to, but I'm quite confident that I'll be able to type at the same speed in a matter of days (coming from a Typematrix 2030 keyboard).
congrats.
I am back to 85% key speed in a week. Hopefully I will be at 100% by the end of the month.
:O left over from the Groupbuy? where can I get those?
[GB] DSA Dolch ISO + Expansions/RGBY/Blank Sets
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44912
[GB] DSA Dolch ISO + Expansions/RGBY/Blank Sets
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44912
Those are a different material, different colour, and the ergodox doesn't use any ISO keys, does it?
so this is what kit 6 - ergodox complete kit looks like in the dolch blanks groupbuy
it has been changed to a complete kit!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44912.0Show Image(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2885/9084286397_15b4fbd512_o.jpg)
First off, this is super cool. I love diy electronics, and a full blown diy mechanical keyboard is sweet.
Here's an off the wall idea I had:
What do you guys think it would take to make this puppy light up? From what I know about backlit keyboards, the light is created from an led strip or other similar device along the edge. If keys light up, it's because they have clear centers. This is speculation based on some threads I read about replacing the leds of a backlit keyboard. I have never disassembled one in person.
I've messed with custom led stuff before, and the key is to diffuse the light. If you shinned an LED onto the edge of this guy, since the whole thing is clear acrylic, you could potential make the entire keyboard glow (assuming it diffused some of the light off imperfections in the material). You could also just be putting the light straight through it, so only the far edge glows. I don't know, because I don't have one.
Any thoughts?
You can click "Commit to join at $199" if you will only buy at that price point; this helps push the buy-in volume towards that point, but you will not be obligated to buy if that goal isn't reached.I am in if enough people join the group buy! <--- looking at the lowest price tagif everyone waits for others to join then the prices will never get lower.
@BlueByLiquid: a few reason for your left side not functioning come to my mind:
- you powered the teensy directly through the USB, and did not powered the board correctly (by soldering and connecting the USB port to it)
- you soldered the diode on the left board on the wrong direction. It happened to me. They must be on the opposite direction of the right board. I can create a short on the diode and press the key to check if this is the case (if the key registers, then it's probably a diode issue).
- you forgot to solder the jumper on the side of the jack connector
You may also want to read ic07 and bisl posts on page 81 when they helped me troubleshooting the exact same issue.
Regards,
Shad
@BlueByLiquid: a few reason for your left side not functioning come to my mind:
- you powered the teensy directly through the USB, and did not powered the board correctly (by soldering and connecting the USB port to it)
- you soldered the diode on the left board on the wrong direction. It happened to me. They must be on the opposite direction of the right board. I can create a short on the diode and press the key to check if this is the case (if the key registers, then it's probably a diode issue).
- you forgot to solder the jumper on the side of the jack connector
You may also want to read ic07 and bisl posts on page 81 when they helped me troubleshooting the exact same issue.
Regards,
Shad
F**** it was the diodes. Thanks for pointing me back at this. I knew I was going to mess this up. I know what the MD site said about it being near the square pin but since I was doing the SMB's both pins were square so I thought I looked at WhiteFireDragon's video and I could swear he put them the same way on both sides(obviously not).
Speaking of that anyone know how WhiteFireDragon used a heat gun to melt the solder paste? I tried that and I have a low flow heat gun but it still moved the little SMBs all over the place. I just use the iron and it worked fine.
@BlueByLiquid: a few reason for your left side not functioning come to my mind:
- you powered the teensy directly through the USB, and did not powered the board correctly (by soldering and connecting the USB port to it)
- you soldered the diode on the left board on the wrong direction. It happened to me. They must be on the opposite direction of the right board. I can create a short on the diode and press the key to check if this is the case (if the key registers, then it's probably a diode issue).
- you forgot to solder the jumper on the side of the jack connector
You may also want to read ic07 and bisl posts on page 81 when they helped me troubleshooting the exact same issue.
Regards,
Shad
F**** it was the diodes. Thanks for pointing me back at this. I knew I was going to mess this up. I know what the MD site said about it being near the square pin but since I was doing the SMB's both pins were square so I thought I looked at WhiteFireDragon's video and I could swear he put them the same way on both sides(obviously not).
Speaking of that anyone know how WhiteFireDragon used a heat gun to melt the solder paste? I tried that and I have a low flow heat gun but it still moved the little SMBs all over the place. I just use the iron and it worked fine.
For the smd reflow, think about oven.
- MD instructions are not the best and I think they could really improve. I think now that I have it built I could easily build it in 2-2 1/2 hours but it took much longer as I constantly rewound WhiteFireDragon's video because I didn't understand something on MD site or I couldn't see it very well. Thank goodness for the high res video.
CASE:
- The acrylic manufacture must be pretty poor. When I got mine they were burned and several pieces of plastic had huge chips/deformations. I got a second set after sending MD the pictures and this set the holes were too small on a few of the layers for the screws to go through.
Speaking of that anyone know how WhiteFireDragon used a heat gun to melt the solder paste? I tried that and I have a low flow heat gun but it still moved the little SMBs all over the place. I just use the iron and it worked fine.
Amazon has right angle adapters, but that'd make the whole thing rather clunkyWell I may just make my own cable using right angle adapters that you can solder you own cable into. Anyone who could make the ergodox should be able to make their own cable.
I enjoyed the write up too.
Your opinion on the thumb cluster is interesting. I'm with Glod and Daerid (and presumably Dox, since he did change the position of the cluster once, during early prototyping) and I like it great as is (though, it would be nice to have an extra key on the inside). I think I remember there being a communal rant about the thumb cluster a little while ago too, but I'm sure they wanted it moved closer in, which sounds different than what you're suggesting.
Nice writeu, .BlueByLiquid. The thumb clusters need to move indeed. I posted about it here, (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844527#msg844527)
including a gimp'ed photo to show 2 possible options for moving them:Show Image(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22780.0;attach=17869;image)
I guess you would be in favor of option 1 (left photo) that moves the clusters toward the user as well outward, toward the hands. I was leaning toward option 2 (right photo) which however involves making the bottom inner row key a 1x1 key, moved up a bit as you can see in the photo, to make room for the thumbclusters to move outward toward the hands only (but not toward the user). Either of these options would be an ergonomic improvement.
I never heard from Dox regarding moving the thumbclusters, even though I tried to contact him. bpiphany and litster both told me they could make the necessary modifications to the pcb and case respectively, provided the community agreed... but Dox should bless it too!
so this is what kit 6 - ergodox complete kit looks like in the dolch blanks groupbuy
it has been changed to a complete kit!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44912.0Show Image(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2885/9084286397_15b4fbd512_o.jpg)
- The acrylic manufacture must be pretty poor. When I got mine they were burned and several pieces of plastic had huge chips/deformations. I got a second set after sending MD the pictures and this set the holes were too small on a few of the layers for the screws to go through.
Nice writeu, .BlueByLiquid. The thumb clusters need to move indeed. I posted about it here, (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844527#msg844527)
including a gimp'ed photo to show 2 possible options for moving them:Show Image(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22780.0;attach=17869;image)
I guess you would be in favor of option 1 (left photo) that moves the clusters toward the user as well outward, toward the hands. I was leaning toward option 2 (right photo) which however involves making the bottom inner row key a 1x1 key, moved up a bit as you can see in the photo, to make room for the thumbclusters to move outward toward the hands only (but not toward the user). Either of these options would be an ergonomic improvement.
I never heard from Dox regarding moving the thumbclusters, even though I tried to contact him. bpiphany and litster both told me they could make the necessary modifications to the pcb and case respectively, provided the community agreed... but Dox should bless it too!
I am currently doing another keyboard lighting project (I will hopefully be done with soon). I am using the Colorduino board. It can control 64RGB leds, or 192 single LEDs. It can be controlled over I2C over usb (which is my goal as I am having OS integration so that I can display things on the keys. It is also a fully arduino board so you can manage a lot on it alone. It manages everything for you so all you have to set in code is the rgb value or the brightness for the led. One example I have been doing is displaying processor usage by lighting up the 0-9 keys. there are a lot of neat things you can do once you have this level of control and can interface with the computer.
Also I have a prototype RGB one. I have heard people don't think this is possible because you of RGB diodes only coming in 5mm, which is true but I made a test version that works with surface mount RGB led and it works well. You can either dremel the keys or mount them slightly at an angle on the pcb and they work great. I need to make a board as no one in their right mind would solder that many points. I am actually most exited about the rgb part as you can do so much awesome stuff when you have full color.
They have risers on the board but if those are soldered it could easily fit in the open space of the full hand version of the ergodox.
I have gotten them as lot a $11 but they are normally about $20. I reacently got mine at HobbyKing http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26845__colorduino_v2_0_rgb_led_matrix_driver.html
There are 84 keys on the ErgoDox, so using bi color led's would cover them all, while 64 RGB's wouldn't.
Doing the surface mount LED's by hand is super tedious. What about bi-color leds? A red/blue tri lead led could produce red, blue, and a whole variety of purples. It's also effectively 2 leds, so a single colorduino could drive 96 of them (right?). There are 84 keys on the ErgoDox, so using bi color led's would cover them all, while 64 RGB's wouldn't. Bi's also come in 3mm packages, so it solves the surface mount issue.
This sounds like something I would like to try out. I would obviously have to solder the matrix myself. Do you know of any resources that outline how to do that? I've seen a ton of examples with already done RGB matrixes, but this isn't the same, and those are only using it, not building it.
EDIT: Not sure if all 3 pins for bi color LEDs will fit through the MX switches. The LED is a 3mm package, but the leads are wider.
Yes, it would require at least 8 wires to go between the two halves. I would rather do that than have each half work independently, but I can see the advantages of both.
For anyone who's wondering, here's a schematic of the led matrix: http://tronixstuff.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/pinouts.jpg
The 8x8 rgb grid is arrange to address each anode and cathode (8 pins for the cathodes, 24 pins (8x3) for the anodes). If I changed that to say 8x12 for bicolor, it would still be 8 pins for the cathodes, and 24 pins (12x2) for the anodes. That's 48 led's per side, and (like I said before), 8 wires between each half.
i don't use my thumb for those 8 keys, i use my index finger as they are assigned to things that would usually not be part of the main typing area like home/end/pageup/pagedown why would you need to touch those with your thumb? there is nothing not ergonomic about using my index fingers to press those unless your wrists are tied down the desk
Notice how for me the top top keys and the middle one on the right cause considerable bending/stretching of the wrist. I hope many of you can do the same! Thanks.
I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized something. Whenever you rest on the homerow, having your pinky match the other three fingers causes your hand to tilt. An interesting idea would be to rest the pinky on the row below the home row. I may try that out by shifting that whole column of keys down one in the firmware.Notice how for me the top top keys and the middle one on the right cause considerable bending/stretching of the wrist. I hope many of you can do the same! Thanks.
I don't have an ErgoDox, but just looking at your pictures, It seems
that you should be rotating the keyboard clockwise by 30+ degrees
relative to your hand. It looks like your fingers finally are lined-up
with the columns on the keyboard when you're at maximum twist
with your thumbs on the inner-most keys.
Wouldn't that go a long ways to addressing the issue you're
concerned about? Does that work or not work for some reason?
As for the placement of the thumb keys I thought rather than say "I like it here" or "no that sucks" we could get at least a little bit scientific-ish. So I took pictures of my hand touching all the keys with my thumb and I hope more people can also do this also. I also made it into a gif using gifninja so that I didn't have to post it anywhere on my own.
I also touched 3 places where keys would be if they were 3 keys directly below the thumb keys.
The big issue for RSI that we should be looking to prevent with the keyboard is the sharp angle of the wrist when stretching but these photos are to help determine these or other issues and where the best fit is. Please do this if you can (Even if you like ergodox as it is) so we can evaluate the general positions of peoples wrists and hands. You can see where the issues are in my gif below:Show Image(http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/657689/ergodox-wrist-action-for-thumb-section.gif)
Notice how for me the top top keys and the middle one on the right cause considerable bending/stretching of the wrist. I hope many of you can do the same! Thanks.
BlueByLiquid- I think your thumb cluster ideas have merit. I've been working on a thumb cluster modification that echo your concerns. I'll post a drawing soon.
I think Glod was referring to the 8-1x1 caps only.
Notice how for me the top top keys and the middle one on the right cause considerable bending/stretching of the wrist. I hope many of you can do the same! Thanks.
I don't have an ErgoDox, but just looking at your pictures, It seems
that you should be rotating the keyboard clockwise by 30+ degrees
relative to your hand. It looks like your fingers finally are lined-up
with the columns on the keyboard when you're at maximum twist
with your thumbs on the inner-most keys.
Wouldn't that go a long ways to addressing the issue you're
concerned about? Does that work or not work for some reason?
Hi. I just got to building my ergodox kit (stuck in customs for the longest time), and I've kind of hit a wall. If anyone here who's more well-versed in electronics and the ergodox firmware could help me out on starting to debug this I would really appreciate it.
Currently, I finished all the soldering except adding in all the keyswitches. I put some on the right side for testing, the left side is completely empty of keyswitches, but all the diodes, the connector and the mcp are in place.
The teensy is working, I can load firmware onto it, but none of the test keys on the right side register with the default firmware. After some testing (turning on the teensy LED at different points in the code), I figured out that the mcp23018_ functions in controller.c were the problem. Commenting them out makes the keys on the right side register and work fine, but of course now there's no communication with the left side.
It seems like it freezes in twi_start, when waiting for the TWINT bit to be set after the operation, ie:Code: [Select]uint8_t twi_start(void) {
// send start
TWCR = (1<<TWINT)|(1<<TWEN)|(1<<TWSTA);
// wait for transmission to complete
while (!(TWCR & (1<<TWINT))); // <==== This line never finishes
// if it didn't work, return the status code (else return 0)
if ( (TW_STATUS != TW_START) &&
(TW_STATUS != TW_REP_START) )
return TW_STATUS; // error
return 0; // success
}
I'm not familiar enough with teensy or the i2c bus to understand why that would happen.
I connected the jump points on the 3.5mm connectors, as far as I can tell the diodes on the left side are getting power, I'm not sure how I would check for the mcp.
If anyone could point me at some things that might be wrong that would really help. I'm quite new to soldering and using a multimeter.
How many keys have you soldered on the right side? I think you need to solder at least a full row and column for even one to work and even then only the one corner key will work until you connect more (AGAIN I may not understand the wiring but I believe that is the case.
Quote- Are all the resistors in place? Not having the 2.2kΩ pull up resistors on the I2C SCL and SDA lines would cause this problem.
Hmm. That could be it. The resistors are in place, which pins are they supposed to be continuous to? I have my multimeter beeping both the resistors with the pin labeled B4 and no other pins (except VCC, but that seems right). Maybe I screwed something up with the pin soldering.
If you use surface mount or two color LEDs you need to dremel out the light sections either way. This is because Cherry MX switchs only have two holes for pins (They have the wide open area but below there are only two holes that lead out of the switch. When you dremel that piece out you can widen the hole a fair bit without causing damage to the switch (at least not that I could see).
I think it would be a bit tedious but not to bad if you use solder paste for the surface mount parts. Obviously these size RGB LEDs have close pins and you would definitely want the 4pin ones NOT the 6 pin ones because that is more soldering.
As for the number of lights yes you can do that as each channel is controlled separately. But the great thing about Colorduinos is that they can accept and forward I2C on so you can chain them to control as many colorduinos as you want you just need two or more boards. They are pretty nice.
Anyone know what's up with the commits disappearing?
Anyone know what's up with the commits disappearing?
I thought that was weird to. I made a detailed post there on what I thought was wrong with the instructions in the hopes they would fix them but I don't think I will put up the effort again.
I am currently doing another keyboard lighting project (I will hopefully be done with soon). I am using the Colorduino board. It can control 64RGB leds, or 192 single LEDs. It can be controlled over I2C over usb (which is my goal as I am having OS integration so that I can display things on the keys. It is also a fully arduino board so you can manage a lot on it alone. It manages everything for you so all you have to set in code is the rgb value or the brightness for the led. One example I have been doing is displaying processor usage by lighting up the 0-9 keys. there are a lot of neat things you can do once you have this level of control and can interface with the computer.
Also I have a prototype RGB one. I have heard people don't think this is possible because you of RGB diodes only coming in 5mm, which is true but I made a test version that works with surface mount RGB led and it works well. You can either dremel the keys or mount them slightly at an angle on the pcb and they work great. I need to make a board as no one in their right mind would solder that many points. I am actually most exited about the rgb part as you can do so much awesome stuff when you have full color.
They have risers on the board but if those are soldered it could easily fit in the open space of the full hand version of the ergodox.
I have gotten them as lot a $11 but they are normally about $20. I reacently got mine at HobbyKing http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26845__colorduino_v2_0_rgb_led_matrix_driver.html
Doing the surface mount LED's by hand is super tedious. What about bi-color leds? A red/blue tri lead led could produce red, blue, and a whole variety of purples. It's also effectively 2 leds, so a single colorduino could drive 96 of them (right?). There are 84 keys on the ErgoDox, so using bi color led's would cover them all, while 64 RGB's wouldn't. Bi's also come in 3mm packages, so it solves the surface mount issue.
This sounds like something I would like to try out. I would obviously have to solder the matrix myself. Do you know of any resources that outline how to do that? I've seen a ton of examples with already done RGB matrixes, but this isn't the same, and those are only using it, not building it.
EDIT: Not sure if all 3 pins for bi color LEDs will fit through the MX switches. The LED is a 3mm package, but the leads are wider.
Check my videos and images on my finished lighting project I just posted:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45078.0
I can help you on how to wire it if you need to. It is very simple just time consuming. I don't know if you will be able to wire the current board by hand because of spacing but if you want to let me know.
Read your post and saw the videos. They look great! I would like to wire the current board. Perhaps it would be possible to get the pins bent down and under the pcb? Do all the wiring underneath? What about drilling through the pcb? I'm not sure how many switches have diodes across them, so not sure if that's possible either.
I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized something. Whenever you rest on the homerow, having your pinky match the other three fingers causes your hand to tilt. An interesting idea would be to rest the pinky on the row below the home row. I may try that out by shifting that whole column of keys down one in the firmware.
Thanks!
I just pulled up the schematic and you should be able to drill through the pcb...but not for every key. A number of the keys run wiring right where you will need to drill also there is wiring for the currently supported LEDs. You will have to be very careful and have the schematic up for viewing while you drill. It may be better to see if anyone will make a PCB that is wired already but you seem pretty determined. The wires will have to be pretty thin and very precise.
If I order through the massdrop site is there any chance that I can get brown switches?
On the other hand, I've been trying to dream up a new vision of qwerty (or anything else as a base, really) that utilizes the fact that the pinky is shorter than the other fingers, and only attempts to use it for two keys. Likewise that the inner two columns (TGB and YHN, respectively) involve a horizontal shift which is much more complex than simply raising or dropping the finger by one key; thus, this is where I would attempt to put lesser-used keys such as ZXQJKV or something.
I can't see the difference between the two difference case options, any ideas?
Has anyone with RSI found this keyboard helps?
If I order through the massdrop site is there any chance that I can get brown switches?
My ErgoDox (MassDrop generated firmware) works well with Windows and Linux, but Solaris 11 does not register any key in X. I didn't have time to check console or diagnose it yet, maybe next week I'll be able to look into it.
Here are a couple of pictures of a rough mockup of my early ideas. I cannibalized some switches and caps from a Siig Mini and a TE. If I go with this arraignment I'll try my hand at resin casting some custom caps http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGiY7WaPretty cool.
Yeah I thought of it also because when I use my implementation of theCore on the ErgoDox (when playing SC2), my home fingers are ZSDF (QWERTY keys for reference, although I use Colemak). I tried it out for a little while after that post and game up on it because, as you mention, combinations like WA is very hard while typing. Whenever I have the time I may mess with it again because it does create more comfortable home keys.I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized something. Whenever you rest on the homerow, having your pinky match the other three fingers causes your hand to tilt. An interesting idea would be to rest the pinky on the row below the home row. I may try that out by shifting that whole column of keys down one in the firmware.
I have in fact been doing this since day 1! I've grown to like it quite a bit. My current build:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=GK8FX3&hash=77ef5f9840dae6233ecf42182f0ee940
The only thing I don't like is that it's biomechanically IMPOSSIBLE to to stretch the ring finger up while curling the pinky, and in practice this makes key combinations such as W, A very hard to do. If you play games on WASD (well, WQSD on this config, ha) it's exceedingly hard to drop down to the A with your pinky while keeping your ring finger on the W. Small price to pay, but in the interest of bias I'd thought I've give my own pro/con view.
On the other hand, I've been trying to dream up a new vision of qwerty (or anything else as a base, really) that utilizes the fact that the pinky is shorter than the other fingers, and only attempts to use it for two keys. Likewise that the inner two columns (TGB and YHN, respectively) involve a horizontal shift which is much more complex than simply raising or dropping the finger by one key; thus, this is where I would attempt to put lesser-used keys such as ZXQJKV or something.
My ErgoDox (MassDrop generated firmware) works well with Windows and Linux, but Solaris 11 does not register any key in X. I didn't have time to check console or diagnose it yet, maybe next week I'll be able to look into it.
Weird... The massdrop generated layouts should be running the USB code straight from PJRC - no Comsumer Page (media key) stuff enabled or anything. I'm assuming other USB keyboards work with the same setup? I'll be curious to know what you find.
My ErgoDox (MassDrop generated firmware) works well with Windows and Linux, but Solaris 11 does not register any key in X. I didn't have time to check console or diagnose it yet, maybe next week I'll be able to look into it.
Weird... The massdrop generated layouts should be running the USB code straight from PJRC - no Comsumer Page (media key) stuff enabled or anything. I'm assuming other USB keyboards work with the same setup? I'll be curious to know what you find.
I've investigated it a little today. The breakthrough came when I've connected my Das back to KVM and it was ignored too.
I think one of KVM "channels" hang up. After I reconnected KVM to the machine all worked fine. Sorry for false alert.
I can't see the difference between the two difference case options, any ideas?
Has anyone with RSI found this keyboard helps?
Full hand has a palm rest. Classic doesn't.
I can't see the difference between the two difference case options, any ideas?
Has anyone with RSI found this keyboard helps?
Full hand has a palm rest. Classic doesn't.
Thank you, I can't find any images of the two options anywhere. Am I doing it wrong?
Thank you very much.
Which version did you go for?
Yeah I thought of it also because when I use my implementation of theCore on the ErgoDox (when playing SC2)
This thread is quite long, I haven't read it all the way through so forgive me. It appears that these home-made split keyboards might be currently for sale? I have some ergonomic issues and have been searching high and low for a truly split keyboard like this, and I can't find one anywhere.
How can I order one of these? Does it work with Mac?
+1 here: That was one of the reasons I did not get an ErgoDox in the first place: I had figured from my own designs that dropping the pinky column down one row in relation to the middle finger one was beneficial for the pinkies reach. Then again, as I also don't use the outmost pinky column any more there is not much strain on it anyways. I have been experimenting with many different offsets, but the current compromise between a rather regular compact layout and adjusted offsets with two 1/2 key drops is a joy to type on:Whenever you rest on the homerow, having your pinky match the other three fingers causes your hand to tilt. An interesting idea would be to rest the pinky on the row below the home row.I have in fact been doing this since day 1!
I still use my right middle finger to hit the U in number. God dammit qwerty.
Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
A few of them, hard to say which because it doesn't happen every time. I'll open it back up and check it out tomorrow. Sounds like a pretty easy fix if that's the problem.Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.
Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
Neither, it's a custom cut acrylic case with a black middle and white top/bottom.Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
Is that aluminium cast or do you apply some material on top?
I haven't seen anybody use flathead screws and countersink them into the top with the acrylic. Do you think it might crack the case?
I haven't seen anybody use flathead screws and countersink them into the top with the acrylic. Do you think it might crack the case?
I wonder if a sex bolt would work?
I think I like the white vinyl better than the carbon fiber.
I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.
I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.
I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.
i mean if that was happening to me i would have replaced with a new switch and diode though i doubt it is the switch.
I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.
Good idea. Why did you have to go to a 1.5 cap? It looks like the 2x would still fit.
I'm working on a thumb cluster mod too. It will take some time but the ergo benefit will be great. http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGiY7Wa
(Attachment Link)
All six thumb keys are very easy to reach.
I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?Just got mine assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5c7Wjlm.jpg)
looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.
Pretty low chance imo. Unless you opened up the switch before and messed up the contact leaf while doing it. Unlikely, but it can happen.
A few questions - does the keys reside on a single hand? (if the chattering is only on the left hand, then its likely a joint on the 3.5mm jack or the transponder, though that too, is unlikely - mainly because if the signal is lost between the halves, the keyboard would just stop working until it is replugged.)
Like Glod and actionbastard pointed out, did u reflow the diodes too?
of this mod definitely takes the keyboard beyond the default ergodox, worthy of a thread on its own.
Is it possible to leave off the LEDs on the ErgoDox? I don't really want to add them…
If something has to go where the LEDs are meant to, can it be the SMDs?
but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to log in or create an account...Only administrators can create accounts. So ask Soarer or dorkvader to create one:
Can anyone recommend a leveling mount size and type for the acrylic case?No, but if you find a nice result, let all of us know!
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-levelers/=njozp1
Good day gentlemen!
So, I've got my heart set on an ErgoDox.
I'm hoping someone can answer the below questions (the first of which I'm sure has been answered somewhere recently many times, however; it isn't immediately apparent to me, so I do apologise if people are getting sick of answering this question):
I've asked to be notified of the next batch on MassDrop, however, does anyone know when the next bunch of kits will be available?
I've got to teach myself how to solder, and I also have to buy some kit! So it'd be really handy if someone could provide me with a short list of the necessary (and nice to have) equipment for an ErgoDox build.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help, I really appreciate it!
The next group buy will probably be within 1-3 months - there's already quite a few requests on the GB that ended last week (if you haven't gone to Massdrop and requested it again on the page - do so!).
As for soldering: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.0)
Can anyone recommend a leveling mount size and type for the acrylic case?No, but if you find a nice result, let all of us know!
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-levelers/=njozp1
Can anyone recommend a leveling mount size and type for the acrylic case?No, but if you find a nice result, let all of us know!
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-levelers/=njozp1
Does anyone know the diameter of the screws?
No, you would need to order either the kit or PCB and have a custom case made.
I've been looking for an indepth review of this keyboard. One's i've found tend to discuss the build process but not the keyboards performance. (Ie: does the split connection slow down key input or have any detrimental affects to responsiveness, etc.)I remember reading something about speed. Here it is: 4ms response time for the left hand side.
I've been looking for an indepth review of this keyboard. One's i've found tend to discuss the build process but not the keyboards performance. (Ie: does the split connection slow down key input or have any detrimental affects to responsiveness, etc.)I remember reading something about speed. Here it is: 4ms response time for the left hand side.
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ergodox-massdrop-groupbuy-discussion-t5085-90.html?hilit=4ms#p95477
Oh my God! I got to have one of these! This is just the most awesome ergonomic keyboard I ever saw so far. And It's open source and fully programmable!
Love you guys. :-*
Please tell me this is not going to be the last batch!
This is what I told Massdrop, and the thickness I used for the ErgoDox case I designed. From top to bottom:
1/8"
3/16"
3/16" <--- mounting plate
3/16"
1/8"
Acrylic sheets thickness vary from batch to batch, even from the same company. Generally they are 1/64" to 1/32" thinner than they are spec'ed. Buy and cut your acrylic sheets with caution. You want the acrylic mounting plate be as thick as possible to minimize plate flex while still fits between the switches and the PCB. This is not a problem with aluminum or stainless steel plates. But acrylic is too flexible at 1/16" or even 1/8".
Just showing off my keyboard stands mod.
Check out the build images here:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114587566591376388042/albums/5902104642028883249 (https://plus.google.com/photos/114587566591376388042/albums/5902104642028883249)
Just showing off my keyboard stands mod.Genius! Does the board slide at all?
Check out the build images here:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114587566591376388042/albums/5902104642028883249 (https://plus.google.com/photos/114587566591376388042/albums/5902104642028883249)
Just showing off my keyboard stands mod.
Check out the build images here:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114587566591376388042/albums/5902104642028883249 (https://plus.google.com/photos/114587566591376388042/albums/5902104642028883249)
Do I have to solder all the diodes before I can see if the diodes are working? As in I am trying to short out a switch after trying to install a diode to see if it works, but I am not getting any reaction from it.
I am doing this because I had soldered a bunch of diodes incorrectly, so I desoldered them and am now at the beginning of soldering the diodes back in the right position and place.
Sorry for double post, but I have two issues I've run into.
One is that numlock doesn't register and some keys register two different keys. I have only soldered diodes on one side.
Any ideas?
suddenly the left hand of my ergodox stoped working. Prior to that it was running fine for the last 5 months. I re-solder all the critical parts but it didn't solve the problem. I know this isn't a lot of information but anyone has an idea what I can do to solve this?
Crazy. Interest for round 4 is about to top 300 people.
Sales of this thing are inching into the hundreds of thousands. With no advertising. This thing has serious legs.
There's been three runs on MassDrop of around 200 people each I believe. Not quite hundreds of thousands.
suddenly the left hand of my ergodox stoped working. Prior to that it was running fine for the last 5 months. I re-solder all the critical parts but it didn't solve the problem. I know this isn't a lot of information but anyone has an idea what I can do to solve this?
Check for bad solder joints on one of the TRRS connectors. It's possible it's a bad cable as well.
Crazy. Interest for round 4 is about to top 300 people.
Sales of this thing are inching into the hundreds of thousands. With no advertising. This thing has serious legs.
suddenly the left hand of my ergodox stoped working. Prior to that it was running fine for the last 5 months. I re-solder all the critical parts but it didn't solve the problem. I know this isn't a lot of information but anyone has an idea what I can do to solve this?
Check for bad solder joints on one of the TRRS connectors. It's possible it's a bad cable as well.
Well, I re-solder the TRRS connectos and IO expander, the cable seems fine as well since I used to connect a mp3 player to a sound system.
Yet the left side is still dead. Next step I guess is try to buy a new IO expander...
Thanks for the tips thought.
I wish TP4 would come back I miss him :(
I wish TP4 would come back I miss him :(
What happened to him?
I wish TP4 would come back I miss him :(
What happened to him?
we stopped feeding him......
nah i don't know. it was kind of odd he disappeared, maybe he assumed a new identity here. Or maybe the ErgoDox was such a game changer for him that he no longer found a need to continue the hobby and geekhack.
How much is one "pair" of ergodox weight? Assuming using the acrylic classic case?Not sure if you ever got an answer, but mine is 957 grams including the pairing cable.
How much is one "pair" of ergodox weight? Assuming using the acrylic classic case?Not sure if you ever got an answer, but mine is 957 grams including the pairing cable.
Crazy. Interest for round 4 is about to top 300 people.
Sales of this thing are inching into the hundreds of thousands. With no advertising. This thing has serious legs.
wut? less than a thousand have ever been produced including protos, im guessing you aren't being serious.
I just added another request for a kit on MassDrop!
Question for a current ErgoDox user - what is the distance from the center of the index finger homerow key to the center of the closest 2x1 thumb key? I tried the Kinesis Advantage and found that the thumb keys were much too high in the Z axis, and about 1 cm too far in the horizontal plane.
I've managed to add NKRO and mouse support to Ben's firmware - based on hasu's and Soarer's work (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=13162) (thanks).
Here's the pull request (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/28) if someone is interested.
Tested only with linux (currently I don't have access to any Windows or OSX box).
suddenly the left hand of my ergodox stoped working. Prior to that it was running fine for the last 5 months. I re-solder all the critical parts but it didn't solve the problem. I know this isn't a lot of information but anyone has an idea what I can do to solve this?
Check for bad solder joints on one of the TRRS connectors. It's possible it's a bad cable as well.
Well, I re-solder the TRRS connectos and IO expander, the cable seems fine as well since I used to connect a mp3 player to a sound system.
Yet the left side is still dead. Next step I guess is try to buy a new IO expander...
Thanks for the tips thought.
I've managed to add NKRO and mouse support to Ben's firmware - based on hasu's and Soarer's work (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=13162) (thanks).
Here's the pull request (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/28) if someone is interested.
Tested only with linux (currently I don't have access to any Windows or OSX box).
This is great. I have been futzing with this for a while too but have been waiting for my Ergodoxen to arrive from the third GB to test. What does the mouse support do?You can send mouse movements, wheel movements and mouse button clicks (press/release states) with this function (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/28/files#L12R46).
I am on Linux as well, but I don't see why your code would not work on other operating systems. Have you tried running Plover with NKRO?I haven't tried Plover, just pressed as many keys as I can. You can of course define custom functions that trigger multiple keypresses, I haven't tried it yet, but it would be interesting to see more then 100 keypresses triggered by pressing only one key. I may try this later.
So I was wondering if anyone else is struggling to get used to typing on their ergodoxes? I've been struggling with mine for about a week, and close to throwing the towel in on it. I'm not sure what the problem is, but the keycaps seem very narrow and tall for starters (PBT DCS), and the non-staggered layout is certainly a mind warp. I was hoping the MX browns would feel more like my laptop key switches (which I love), but I find them mushy and hard to perceive. I've had to switch back to my usual MS Natural multiple times to get actual work done. Even switching back is a bit of an adjustment - if I do get used to the dox, I dread the thought of struggling to type every time I'm with my laptop or at another desk.
When we first started putting the ErgoDox group buy together more than 8 months ago, we never thought we'd be able to get as much support as we have from the mechanical keyboard communities. After selling well over 500 ErgoDox keyboards (pretty crazy number, I know!), we have also learn quite a few things on optimizing supply chain efficiency, ErgoDox programmer functionality, as well as product quality.
All I can say is that we have a few improvements planned for round 4 ErgoDox group buy. Just stay tuned :)
As for switching back to standard keyboards - I could probably do it if I tried, but as of now, I can no longer use one proficiently as I've been on my ergodox 100% of the time for the last few months. Just way more efficient in terms of finger movement and a lot more comfortable on the wrists.
So, this may be a stupid question overall, but I really don't know:
Is there any possibility of making this work with bluetooth, either as part of the plans or as a modification to my (round 4) order when it arrives?
I'm disabled with a significant joint disorder, and I been looking for a new keyboard for ages. This nails every item on my list, except for the fact that since I wind up working on my iPad a lot from bed, I really have to have a bluetooth keyboard to connect to the iPad.
I'm really excited about the 4th Massdrop, even if I can only use it on the desktop, but I'm hoping someone might have an idea for fixing it to work over Bluetooth (other than the shady imported USB-to-Bluetooth adapters...).
Cheers!
I don't know about that (probably a LOT of work), but you might be interested in this: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0
Last ditch effort to get people to join group buys for ErgoDox Key Caps, both of which could be dropped if there isnt any more orders
1. DSA Profile Dolch Blanks (full set) - <24 hours left
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44912.0
Small amount of time left. Needs 5 orders to get to to $58.06 and be a go (from what domo last said about it), 15 more orders to be $46.50
2. "Military" Theme SA Profile (modifier ADD on to base set) <3 days left
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45655.0
Needs 20 more people. However it is possible with the small amount of orders, sorter will purchase blanks individually and sort each manually. So it is likely this is going done even with small orders. This is expensive but very unique.
--
Some more ErgoDox cap sets likely going to be offered in Group Buy(s) in the coming weeks, likely by BunnyLake but not confirmed.
Surely there are some here who want more cap choices.....
For Ergodox, pls add legends to the modifier keys. Current GBs offer only blank modifiers. We can get those from MassDrop.
It may be a good idea to have spares. I don't think I'd ever want to be forced to use a conventional keyboard again, even temporarily.
It may be a good idea to have spares. I don't think I'd ever want to be forced to use a conventional keyboard again, even temporarily.
Thus I got spares for everything even before building one, I/O controller, Teensy, connectors, switches, cables, everything! Perks of assembling one yourself and not using Massdrop
Speaking of assembling... Is there a list somewhere for vendors who offer ErgoDox assembly services? Or did I skip right over that page? If it's on the OP I'm going to be pissed...
It may be a good idea to have spares. I don't think I'd ever want to be forced to use a conventional keyboard again, even temporarily.
It may be a good idea to have spares. I don't think I'd ever want to be forced to use a conventional keyboard again, even temporarily.
Thus I got spares for everything even before building one, I/O controller, Teensy, connectors, switches, cables, everything! Perks of assembling one yourself and not using Massdrop
Speaking of assembling... Is there a list somewhere for vendors who offer ErgoDox assembly services? Or did I skip right over that page? If it's on the OP I'm going to be pissed...
Thus I got spares for everything even before building one, I/O controller, Teensy, connectors, switches, cables, everything! Perks of assembling one yourself and not using Massdrop
Speaking of assembling... Is there a list somewhere for vendors who offer ErgoDox assembly services? Or did I skip right over that page? If it's on the OP I'm going to be pissed...
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45886.0
I've been trying to find, but what is the thread of the bolts that come with the ErgoDox? I want to look at a few different types of cap nuts
Metric Zinc-Plated Steel Hex Nut, Class 6, M3 Size, .5MM Pitch, 5.5MM W, 2.4MM H
Metric Class 12.9 Socket Head Cap Screw, Alloy Steel, M3 Thread, 22MM Length, 0.50MM Pitch
started having issues with both of the trrs cables that I had (man, these things don't hold up well), and decided to make my own with some spare audio wire I had.
Man I really, really wish right angle TRRS cables weren't impossible to find.
Man I really, really wish right angle TRRS cables weren't impossible to find.
Something like this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dFfoTLn.jpg)
And that's taken from a Norwegian website, if I can manage to find one here then it should be fairly easy to find one in the US.
Aye - those aren't too uncommon! You can probably find it on Digikey or Mouser fairly easily.
Massdrop folks are suppose to be getting out tracking numbers soon - this is very exciting! I guess it's time to buy an iron and some solder..
Aye - those aren't too uncommon! You can probably find it on Digikey or Mouser fairly easily.
Massdrop folks are suppose to be getting out tracking numbers soon - this is very exciting! I guess it's time to buy an iron and some solder..
Man I really, really wish right angle TRRS cables weren't impossible to find.
Something like this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dFfoTLn.jpg)
And that's taken from a Norwegian website, if I can manage to find one here then it should be fairly easy to find one in the US.
That's a TRS, not TRRS. Also, that's the connector. I'm looking for complete cables with dual right angle plugs.
Man I really, really wish right angle TRRS cables weren't impossible to find.
It looks like there's yet another group buy happening on Massdrop for this!
It looks like there's yet another group buy happening on Massdrop for this!
It looks like there's yet another group buy happening on Massdrop for this!
I followed the link in the r3 shipping notification and came to a page which seemingly show an ongoing ergodox group buy. Possibly there's a conflict in time continuem.
R4 isn't up on MassDrop yet, but not to worry. Interest for another round is higher than it ever has been before (400+ requests!!!)
Aluminum plates are back, full and partial assembly, cherry reds, and over 600 requests.
What. The. ****.
Too bad I'm now more interested in the ErgoGP and 70% version
I have the aluminium and acrylic from round 1, and then an unopened acrylic from round 2. The aluminium sucks so bad; i polished it up pretty for some pictures but it looks bad right now after heavy use. The acrylic, i hated the clear so much that i used vinyl to cover it.
Clear acrylic to me is just a really bad idea, i know there are some fans, i recognize them, but i think people are getting the ergodox for the functionality and not for looks but would still appreciate a choice of acrylic color/surface.
whatever, done buying ergodoxes lol, selling my third one soon.
whatever, done buying ergodoxes lol, selling my third one soon.
whatever, done buying ergodoxes lol, selling my third one soon.
Have you found something better?
Just for the records, I am still glad I have the aluminum. I'm sure it helps protect the finish having it set into a board however. I would want to see Massdrop's new aluminum top plate before I bought it if I didn't have the means to clean it up.
whatever, done buying ergodoxes lol, selling my third one soon.
Have you found something better?
i am making my first test print of dox's STL files for the original case. they will be bright pink, because i know you guys are into that stuff.
they are HUGE though. no idea how they're going to turn out.
i am making my first test print of dox's STL files for the original case. they will be bright pink, because i know you guys are into that stuff.I saw your post in the 3D printing thread and got excited.
they are HUGE though. no idea how they're going to turn out.
I have the aluminium and acrylic from round 1, and then an unopened acrylic from round 2. The aluminium sucks so bad; i polished it up pretty for some pictures but it looks bad right now after heavy use. The acrylic, i hated the clear so much that i used vinyl to cover it.Do you want to sell this acrylic case Glod???
Clear acrylic to me is just a really bad idea, i know there are some fans, i recognize them, but i think people are getting the ergodox for the functionality and not for looks but would still appreciate a choice of acrylic color/surface.
whatever, done buying ergodoxes lol, selling my third one soon.
Man I really, really wish right angle TRRS cables weren't impossible to find.
i am making my first test print of dox's STL files for the original case. they will be bright pink, because i know you guys are into that stuff.
they are HUGE though. no idea how they're going to turn out.
pics!!
I have the aluminium and acrylic from round 1, and then an unopened acrylic from round 2. The aluminium sucks so bad; i polished it up pretty for some pictures but it looks bad right now after heavy use. The acrylic, i hated the clear so much that i used vinyl to cover it.Do you want to sell this acrylic case Glod???
Clear acrylic to me is just a really bad idea, i know there are some fans, i recognize them, but i think people are getting the ergodox for the functionality and not for looks but would still appreciate a choice of acrylic color/surface.
whatever, done buying ergodoxes lol, selling my third one soon.
I'm interested!!!
:p
i am making my first test print of dox's STL files for the original case. they will be bright pink, because i know you guys are into that stuff.
they are HUGE though. no idea how they're going to turn out.
pics!!
POTATOOOOO
I'm going to be selling assembled most likely, really want to help out someone who doesn't have ability to assemble one but really wants one.I do understand and I do agree, no problem at all.
I'm planning to print the ergodox case but I'm not sure IF my unfinished printer will have a good quality for these amount of bridges I saw.i am making my first test print of dox's STL files for the original case. they will be bright pink, because i know you guys are into that stuff.
they are HUGE though. no idea how they're going to turn out.
pics!!
POTATOOOOO
Show Image(http://almightyglod.com/public_stack/hehheheh.png)
heh heh heh
i wonder if massdrop will sell the aluminium top plate seperate, im sure some would want it, hell id grab it.
Show Image(http://almightyglod.com/public_stack/hehheheh.png)
heh heh heh
i wonder if massdrop will sell the aluminium top plate seperate, im sure some would want it, hell id grab it.
Same here! Although I'd prefer a black anodized top plate
Show Image(http://almightyglod.com/public_stack/hehheheh.png)
heh heh heh
i wonder if massdrop will sell the aluminium top plate seperate, im sure some would want it, hell id grab it.
Same here! Although I'd prefer a black anodized top plate
black or grey hell yeah. Someone want to volunteer to email MassDrop about selling these separate?
Man I really, really wish right angle TRRS cables weren't impossible to find.
Would this work?
http://www.calradstore.com/55-869b-3.html
Woo, I'm in! :)
I've elected to build it myself, and I'm hoping that decision doesn't come back to bite me.
I have a cheapish soldering iron, solder and some solder wick. What else should I look at getting prior to the bits arriving?
I bought a hakko fx-888d specifically for building the ErgoDox
I'm still a little confused regarding the direction of the diodes (Npt in the switch), the square pad is where the cathode end goes for both the left and right. correct?
As for the LEDs, if I am swapping the location of the resistance and the LED, which LED terminal goes into which hole as the resistor hole doesn't have demarcation for cathode/anode.
I didn't see the altgr key on this keyboard.
Is it easy to change the layout to add altgr key ?
I'm still a little confused regarding the direction of the diodes (Npt in the switch), the square pad is where the cathode end goes for both the left and right. correct?
As for the LEDs, if I am swapping the location of the resistance and the LED, which LED terminal goes into which hole as the resistor hole doesn't have demarcation for cathode/anode.
Also note that the diode orientation is mirror-imaged for each hand.Why you do this, I am confused again :-\
The LED cathodes (shorter leg) would go into each hole furthest away from the Teensy. See the last paragraph and photo in this post for other important considerations:And this is for all three LEDs?
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg903055#msg903055
Here you go. I put them in but one side popped out because the wedge that normally grabs the underside of the plate (on normal keyboards with thin plates) needs to be filed off so it becomes like the red portion in the photo you provided in another thread:Show Image(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41937.0;attach=17766;image)
Can you show pictures of what you did to get the stabilizers to work? I just bought an ergodox, and I know I'm going to want to remove all the wiggle I possibly can.
Just FYI... I used a small Dremel Engraving Cutter with a round cutter to make a dent inside each slot at both ends. I am surprised at how well the stab mount works now. No need to file/cut off the snap.
Man I really, really wish right angle TRRS cables weren't impossible to find.
Would this work?
http://www.calradstore.com/55-869b-3.html
I think it should, great find!Show Image(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-128684775214836_2271_182375037)
Also note that the diode orientation is mirror-imaged for each hand.Why you do this, I am confused again :-\
The LED cathodes (shorter leg) would go into each hole furthest away from the Teensy. See the last paragraph and photo in this post for other important considerations:And this is for all three LEDs?
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg903055#msg903055
Now, to find some 63/27 solder locally..
so any longer time users of the ergodox have problems with the usb port almost breaking off?
I kept thinking the reason my ergodox would spaz out was because of the TRRS cable but then i noticed what should have been obvious to me, the usb port was wobbling like crazy, i re flowed but it didn't fix it, i had to replace with a new WM17115-N and now it works great. i guess because i was disconnecting and reconnecting alot and moving around the ergodox to different positions it was too abusive to the connector. It reminds me of the issue common with the Rosewill RK9000 though this looks to me more of me being abusive and no fault of the connector massdrop provided.
Is it possible to desolder the mini usb on the teensy and use ribbon cable to attach it to the right hand pcb?
How about joining the two halves with a soldered at both ends ribbon cables. Asking cause my trrs connectors might take some time coming.
I just meant that the cathodes are oriented towards the left on one hand's PCB vs. oriented towards the right on the other hand's PCB. Some people have caused a problem when they soldered the diodes on both hands all pointed in the same direction, which caused one hand to not work.
Are media keys working yet?
:D
Is it possible to desolder the mini usb on the teensy and use ribbon cable to attach it to the right hand pcb?
How about joining the two halves with a soldered at both ends ribbon cables. Asking cause my trrs connectors might take some time coming.
I was wondering the same thing since I will be permanently attaching the halves together.
Also, Is the I/O expander necessary to avoid having a dozen wire cable bridging the halves. If not, can the rows just be bridged straight across the split?
I can't think of any reason why desoldering the Mini USB on the Teensy and using a little ribbon cable would't work. Electrically, it seems like it'd be about the same as what we're already doing. I considered doing that for the last one I built, but ended up not needing to.
Joining the two halves with a permanent (soldered in) 4-conductor cable should work just as well also.
About the I/O expander - if you bridged the rows straight from board to board, and did away with I2C (which would free up 2 pins), I'm pretty sure you would have *exactly* enough free pins on the Teensy to deal with the left hand columns, which you would have to bring over in a 7 conductor cable of some sort. That sort of change would also necessitate changes in the scanning function. Or, alternately, at that point it probably wouldn't be too difficult to use hasu's firmware - like everyone I know of who's done away with I2C (on their ErgoDox inspired boards) has, lol :)
It sounds like removing the I/O expander would clean up some unnecessary components but would require additional programming. It sounds like something above my pay grade.Learning to program by starting with firmware would be a steep climb. You clearly have the patience and attention to detail required, but would have to pay some dues before you would see success. You might be better served by asking for some help if changes are required, or wiring your switch matrix like the hasu firmware expects so as to avoid changes other than key maps.
Would you agree, given my lack of programming understanding, that I would be better to just stick with a proven thing?
Are media keys working yet?
:D
Only in rev-1 (and only 3 of them, implemented by judascleric - see the notes near the top of the readme (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware)). And school is starting soon, so media keys in rev-2 will likely be quite some time... But you can watch the repo if you want :)Is it possible to desolder the mini usb on the teensy and use ribbon cable to attach it to the right hand pcb?
How about joining the two halves with a soldered at both ends ribbon cables. Asking cause my trrs connectors might take some time coming.
I was wondering the same thing since I will be permanently attaching the halves together.
Also, Is the I/O expander necessary to avoid having a dozen wire cable bridging the halves. If not, can the rows just be bridged straight across the split?
I can't think of any reason why desoldering the Mini USB on the Teensy and using a little ribbon cable would't work. Electrically, it seems like it'd be about the same as what we're already doing. I considered doing that for the last one I built, but ended up not needing to.
Joining the two halves with a permanent (soldered in) 4-conductor cable should work just as well also.
About the I/O expander - if you bridged the rows straight from board to board, and did away with I2C (which would free up 2 pins), I'm pretty sure you would have *exactly* enough free pins on the Teensy to deal with the left hand columns, which you would have to bring over in a 7 conductor cable of some sort. That sort of change would also necessitate changes in the scanning function. Or, alternately, at that point it probably wouldn't be too difficult to use hasu's firmware - like everyone I know of who's done away with I2C (on their ErgoDox inspired boards) has, lol :)
icO7, we continue to be indebted to you for your persistence in fielding, what I'm sure to you are, our elementary questions. Thanks.
It sounds like removing the I/O expander would clean up some unnecessary components but would require additional programming. It sounds like something above my pay grade.
Would you agree, given my lack of programming understanding, that I would be better to just stick with a proven thing?
GHAaaaaaaaa, very greatful that the media keys are being worked on.. OMG why couldn't it be the volumn keys.. hurrrrrrr..... ;D
Aight.. cool.. i got mad patience..
Thanks for all the hard work. :D
they dont work on PC, i have been wanting damn volume controls and pause/play on my ergodox for some time now.
Hey folks ! First time poster here :)
Just wanted to confirm if it is is possible to open the switches on the massdrop case without desoldering ?
This feature will be very useful for future mods I'll probably be doing (ergo-clears, lubing, etc).
Also, I'd like to thank all of the contributors for this awesome project.
Will definitely help with my RSI issues :D
Hey folks ! First time poster here :)
Just wanted to confirm if it is is possible to open the switches on the massdrop case without desoldering ?
This feature will be very useful for future mods I'll probably be doing (ergo-clears, lubing, etc).
Hey folks ! First time poster here :)
Just wanted to confirm if it is is possible to open the switches on the massdrop case without desoldering ?
This feature will be very useful for future mods I'll probably be doing (ergo-clears, lubing, etc).
Yup, you can remove the tops, except for the 3 keys that have the LEDs, which is no big deal :-)
Hey folks ! First time poster here :)
Just wanted to confirm if it is is possible to open the switches on the massdrop case without desoldering ?
This feature will be very useful for future mods I'll probably be doing (ergo-clears, lubing, etc).
Yup, you can remove the tops, except for the 3 keys that have the LEDs, which is no big deal :-)
Can be done if you modify the switch tops before you solder the leds in.
WFD's video on modifying the switch tops.
For those without a dremel tool, pretty much any sharp knife will do. I did mine with a xacto knife.
I'll definitely try out the the xacto knife method.Be careful when cutting plastic! If you have a small serrated blade or a file, I suggest that you use that instead.
I was wondering the same thing since I will be permanently attaching the halves together.If the only reason would to be able to reach the Reset button on the Teensy, so that you can upgrade the firmware... then you could instead just add your own Reset button. Connect the button to close a circuit between the RST and GND pins on the Teensy. That is all the existing button does, according to the schematic (http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic.html).
After the initial configuration, I don't think it's necessary to ever push the reset button again if you assign it to a key stroke. Am I mistaken?
After the initial configuration, I don't think it's necessary to ever push the reset button again if you assign it to a key stroke. Am I mistaken?
After the initial configuration, I don't think it's necessary to ever push the reset button again if you assign it to a key stroke. Am I mistaken?
Unless you accidentally load a layout that doesn't have a bootloader key assigned to it (not fun)
After the initial configuration, I don't think it's necessary to ever push the reset button again if you assign it to a key stroke. Am I mistaken?
Unless you accidentally load a layout that doesn't have a bootloader key assigned to it (not fun)
+1
What I did is drill a little hole in the top plate, so I can easily push the button with a paperclip.
Not on the massdrop top plates. From their site, it looks like some of their prototypes had a hole there, but it's not on any of the production cases I've seen.
About the I/O expander - if you bridged the rows straight from board to board, and did away with I2C (which would free up 2 pins), I'm pretty sure you would have *exactly* enough free pins on the Teensy to deal with the left hand columns, which you would have to bring over in a 7 conductor cable of some sort. That sort of change would also necessitate changes in the scanning function. Or, alternately, at that point it probably wouldn't be too difficult to use hasu's firmware - like everyone I know of who's done away with I2C (on their ErgoDox inspired boards) has, lol :)
Though I'd share my ErgoDox build:
Mostly done, a couple of things left here and there
Covers on:Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130826_235820.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130826_235905.JPG)
Covers off:Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000008.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000142.JPG)
I decided to swap the position of the resistors and the LEDs since, the keys were not going to be programmed Caps/Num/Scroll Lock, and thus having LED in that position didn't make sense. Since there wasn't enough space for the resistors in place of LED (Which would have gone through the switch), I decided to just use some SMD resistors.Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000449.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000831.JPG)
Side profile, I made these feet to adjust the vertical angle of the ErgoDox to make it even more comfortable. Got various sized discs and different sized hex bolts and then balanced it out according to my comfort level. You can see that on each hand, I am missing one bumpon on one feet, the ebay dealer only sent two sets of 4 instead of 3 :mad::Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000632.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000657.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000907.JPG)
On the todo list (In order of priority):
- Add the missing bumper to one feet on each side (Priority, should be done in next couple of days as soon as Ebay dealer ships it)
- Braided USB cable, awaiting order of USB and mini-USB ends (Shipped, yet to receive)
- Swap out the 2x keys for taller SA profile keycaps, (Shipped, yet to receive)
- Change the switch top covers to clear switch top covers (Still waiting for them to be shipped)
- Add a chainmaille armor style sleeving to both the cables (Planning phase)
I'm still experimenting, for sure!
Show Image(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/25/5e8eme6e.jpg)
Show Image(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/25/5e8eme6e.jpg)
In that pic the caps look SUPER rough.
Mine arrived and I've assembled it all, flashed the stock .eep and .hex.
But when I plug it in i get "asdfggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg"
Unplugging the left side and the right works fine. The soldering seems ok.
The only thing I can see is the jumper pads on the other side from the controller...do these need to be connected?
Mine arrived and I've assembled it all, flashed the stock .eep and .hex.
But when I plug it in i get "asdfggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg"
Unplugging the left side and the right works fine. The soldering seems ok.
The only thing I can see is the jumper pads on the other side from the controller...do these need to be connected?
Jumpers have to be soldered on both sides, the left and the right, to see which, face the PCB up and see the jumpers enclosed in white printing.
Oh that's fine!Show Image(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/25/5e8eme6e.jpg)
In that pic the caps look SUPER rough.
Shrug! They're dsa pbt from gb3 and they feel great =)
You only need to short them on the left hand side and only on the top.
You only need to short them on the left hand side and only on the top.
You only need to short them on the left hand side and only on the top.
This. Both my ErgoDoxes only have the top pad soldered and work perfectly.
I got mine today and just finished building it, although I can't find how to get æ ø å in the eDox layout configurator, anyone here able to help?
Edit:
Turns out that just loading the default firmware does set it to Norwegian layout.
Although one of the LEDs is constantly on, is this normal?
Also, will I need access to the button on the teensy every time I want to change layout?
So, I started noticing this yesterday, but the F key on my Ergodox occasionally will begin to repeat itself. Sometimes it's just once or twice, other times it's like it's been stuck down and just repeating.
Now, this is the same key that I managed to pull off the switch top + stem (Curse you, SP DSA PBT's), which I just put back together, which it worked fine. This issue didn't happen the day of me pulling the top off, which leads me to believe that it's either the diode or the IO expander.
What say you guys? Should I just reflow the IO expander and diode to the F key and see if it resolves the occasional repeat?
So, I started noticing this yesterday, but the F key on my Ergodox occasionally will begin to repeat itself. Sometimes it's just once or twice, other times it's like it's been stuck down and just repeating.
Now, this is the same key that I managed to pull off the switch top + stem (Curse you, SP DSA PBT's), which I just put back together, which it worked fine. This issue didn't happen the day of me pulling the top off, which leads me to believe that it's either the diode or the IO expander.
What say you guys? Should I just reflow the IO expander and diode to the F key and see if it resolves the occasional repeat?
If you have another switch spare, I'd say swap the switch out.
Though I'd share my ErgoDox build:
Mostly done, a couple of things left here and there
Covers on:Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130826_235820.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130826_235905.JPG)
Covers off:Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000008.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000142.JPG)
I decided to swap the position of the resistors and the LEDs since, the keys were not going to be programmed Caps/Num/Scroll Lock, and thus having LED in that position didn't make sense. Since there wasn't enough space for the resistors in place of LED (Which would have gone through the switch), I decided to just use some SMD resistors.Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000449.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000831.JPG)
Side profile, I made these feet to adjust the vertical angle of the ErgoDox to make it even more comfortable. Got various sized discs and different sized hex bolts and then balanced it out according to my comfort level. You can see that on each hand, I am missing one bumpon on one feet, the ebay dealer only sent two sets of 4 instead of 3 :mad::Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000632.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000657.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000907.JPG)
On the todo list (In order of priority):
- Add the missing bumper to one feet on each side (Priority, should be done in next couple of days as soon as Ebay dealer ships it)
- Braided USB cable, awaiting order of USB and mini-USB ends (Shipped, yet to receive)
- Swap out the 2x keys for taller SA profile keycaps, (Shipped, yet to receive)
- Change the switch top covers to clear switch top covers (Still waiting for them to be shipped)
- Add a chainmaille armor style sleeving to both the cables (Planning phase)
Though I'd share my ErgoDox build:
Mostly done, a couple of things left here and there
Covers on:Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130826_235820.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130826_235905.JPG)
Covers off:Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000008.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000142.JPG)
I decided to swap the position of the resistors and the LEDs since, the keys were not going to be programmed Caps/Num/Scroll Lock, and thus having LED in that position didn't make sense. Since there wasn't enough space for the resistors in place of LED (Which would have gone through the switch), I decided to just use some SMD resistors.Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000449.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000831.JPG)
Side profile, I made these feet to adjust the vertical angle of the ErgoDox to make it even more comfortable. Got various sized discs and different sized hex bolts and then balanced it out according to my comfort level. You can see that on each hand, I am missing one bumpon on one feet, the ebay dealer only sent two sets of 4 instead of 3 :mad::Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000632.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000657.JPG)Show Image(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7419977/ErgoDOx/20130827_000907.JPG)
On the todo list (In order of priority):
- Add the missing bumper to one feet on each side (Priority, should be done in next couple of days as soon as Ebay dealer ships it)
- Braided USB cable, awaiting order of USB and mini-USB ends (Shipped, yet to receive)
- Swap out the 2x keys for taller SA profile keycaps, (Shipped, yet to receive)
- Change the switch top covers to clear switch top covers (Still waiting for them to be shipped)
- Add a chainmaille armor style sleeving to both the cables (Planning phase)
Can you elaborate on your tenting solution? Is it custom? How tall are the legs/supports? Are they attached through fasteners or adhesives?
If they could do it out of anodized aluminum, then a GB would definitely be something I'd be interested in.
We've got our hands really full with a lot of products right now, so launching this is kind of a no-brainer but also taking a back seat to some other products/vendors/communities... We can't only work for the Keyboard people :P
I can only comment from my own experience. Because I type with my palms low, I find it difficult to hit three of the 1x thumb keys without moving my hand from home position; in fact I think I generally use my index finger for them. It does help considerably using taller keycaps on those switches, but the placement is still less than ideal.
I would recommend not assigning heavily used commands to those keys.
It's interesting that the ErgoDox is unable to wake a computer from sleep. Well, at least it doesn't work on my windows machine; anyone else?
Is there a way to mod the switch tops to allow the springs and stems to be changed once assembled?
Now to figure out what layout to use... I'm really debating whether to move to an entirely new layout, like to Colemak or something.i took the opportunity of switching from a stupid plank of buttons to the cheapo kinesis ergo i scored on ebay shortly before hearing about the dox to also move to colemak from qwerty. if you're convinced by the idea of a better logical layout then it's a good time to do it - take the typing productivity hit all at once, rather than spreading it around. it made me sad that people use qwerty after a couple of minutes in a colemak typing tutorial, even when you suck at it you can still feel just how much better it is. that said, it's hard to recommend switching just because everything else is still qwerty. when you have to fiddle at someone else's computer it sucks, when someone in the office comes over to your machine to help you out with something, they have to dictate to you as there's no chance that they'd be able to do owt useful on your keyboard, etc. _that_ said, i still ain't switching back.
Just sharing an opinion:
I didn't see the ErgoDox on massdrop until it was too late. Now I see people with aluminum cases, with nice palm rests, custom LEDs, etc.
But it's harder and harder to search all GH for info about it. If I see a Massdrop offer with all those mods, I'll jump in in a second.
Ergonomically speaking, I think that kinesys' high point is the contoured keys. They DO make a difference! I wish I had a Kinesis cut in Half. That would be the ideal keyboard.
Now, how are guys owning both keyboards think of the Ergo-dox?
Is it that hard to create a new Ergo-Dox and design it contoured?
with time, a huge massdrop could be organized, and I'm pretty sure would be the best keyboard ever!
I know. what I mean is IF I saw a mass drop where you choose the case material (not acrylic).Just sharing an opinion:
I didn't see the ErgoDox on massdrop until it was too late. Now I see people with aluminum cases, with nice palm rests, custom LEDs, etc.
But it's harder and harder to search all GH for info about it. If I see a Massdrop offer with all those mods, I'll jump in in a second.
Massdrop never offered these mods, people do them themselves.
I am a long time kinesis user, and I think the "bowls" are too pronounced. They should be subtler.
Anyway, I have a full-hand ergodox and love it as well. At work I use a Kinesis Advantage LF and at home
an Ergodox, both in dvorak layout. I don't really miss the bowl shape, I kinda like the variation.
Is it that hard to create a new Ergo-Dox and design it contoured?
Extremely hard. PCB's come flat... to make the contour shape you'd need special PCBs and special frames to mount them, or a special case like the maltron.
with time, a huge massdrop could be organized, and I'm pretty sure would be the best keyboard ever!
I think the best bet for a split contoured keyboard would be if Kinesis themselves make it, you can contact them here on geekhack, they have a subforum and thread where they take suggestions about the next Advantage keyboard !
So could master race vim! I kid, I kid. You would probably love it.
So could master race vim! I kid, I kid. You would probably love it.
Vim is good of course. But IMHO, it only changes the typing speed not the experience. Emacs and Vim both make heavy use of mod keys, and that could be the reason why Ergodox would be a great combination to go with Emacs and Vim. The only thing I don't feel comfortable switching to Ergodox is how difficult it is to get used to Ergodox layout.
So could master race vim! I kid, I kid. You would probably love it.
Vim is good of course. But IMHO, it only changes the typing speed not the experience. Emacs and Vim both make heavy use of mod keys, and that could be the reason why Ergodox would be a great combination to go with Emacs and Vim. The only thing I don't feel comfortable switching to Ergodox is how difficult it is to get used to Ergodox layout.
Wait how does vim use mod keys? vim is mode based, regular keys do things based on the mode you're in, very few things require mod keys.
So could master race vim! I kid, I kid. You would probably love it.
Vim is good of course. But IMHO, it only changes the typing speed not the experience. Emacs and Vim both make heavy use of mod keys, and that could be the reason why Ergodox would be a great combination to go with Emacs and Vim. The only thing I don't feel comfortable switching to Ergodox is how difficult it is to get used to Ergodox layout.
Wait how does vim use mod keys? vim is mode based, regular keys do things based on the mode you're in, very few things require mod keys.
Yes that's right. Emacs uses mods more often. But in Vim you do need to hit ESC very often to get out of insertion mode. I could be wrong tho. Obviously I am not a Vim expert.
So could master race vim! I kid, I kid. You would probably love it.
Vim is good of course. But IMHO, it only changes the typing speed not the experience. Emacs and Vim both make heavy use of mod keys, and that could be the reason why Ergodox would be a great combination to go with Emacs and Vim. The only thing I don't feel comfortable switching to Ergodox is how difficult it is to get used to Ergodox layout.
Wait how does vim use mod keys? vim is mode based, regular keys do things based on the mode you're in, very few things require mod keys.
Yes that's right. Emacs uses mods more often. But in Vim you do need to hit ESC very often to get out of insertion mode. I could be wrong tho. Obviously I am not a Vim expert.
That is true. I've just never really considered ESC a mod key since you don't press and hold it.
The edox is good for that since i can have ESC where caps lock goes and backspace on a thumb
So how hard do you think the transition from ANSI layout to edox layout is?zxcv took a tad bit of getting used to, b and k a bit too but less than zxcv. The rest was easy because I put everything where it felt like it should go.
So how hard do you think the transition from ANSI layout to edox layout is?about as hard as the transition from being brutally attacked by a gang of armed thugs to being sensually massaged by a group of the most stunningly gorgeous & attractive people you could ever dream of having intimate sensual times with. it's a little bit odd. not like anything you've ever experienced. but it's undeniably all good ;)
So how hard do you think the transition from ANSI layout to edox layout is?about as hard as the transition from being brutally attacked by a gang of armed thugs to being sensually massaged by a group of the most stunningly gorgeous & attractive people you could ever dream of having intimate sensual times with. it's a little bit odd. not like anything you've ever experienced. but it's undeniably all good ;)
I'm sorry if this has been covered already in this thread, but I'm curious if the PCBs support mirroring without too much trouble. Meaning, putting the teensy, usb, and all that on the left side and the IOCP on the right.
the issue is electrical. if you mount the teensy
on the wrong side of the PCB, the power pin of teensy
is not connected to power trace of PCB. similar issues for
all pins of teensy and I/O expander...
the mass drop pcb does not support pcb stabilizers, a later revision that mechanicalkeyboards.com sells does support pcb stabilizers
however that doesn't really matter, the litster acrylic case massdrop sells only supports costar stabilizers and does not include them.
Should probably note though that the stabilizer cutouts for one of the thumb keys (on each hand) didn't quite line up correctly. There was talk of fixing it before the last run, but I haven't heard anything either way.
Though, there were a few people that made the improperly aligned cutouts work anyway. And a lot of us (myself included) haven't found it necessary to use stabilizers at all :)
however that doesn't really matter, the litster acrylic case massdrop sells only supports costar stabilizers and does not include them.Massdrop's case supports stabilisers only on one of the two thumb keys per half-keyboard, because of a bug in Litsters design.
Updated my layout visual aid generator. Now integrates better into the MassDrop firmware source download,
warns about configuration mismatches when PRESS action is different than RELEASE action for ktrans, kprrel, shprre.
here's the old post: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg1024010#msg1024010
Here is the new patch file: (Attachment Link)
unzip it into your MassDrop firmware source directory.
Then issue the command> patch --strip=3 -i edva.patch
again, this relies upon gcc and m4 being in the path.
then issue the command> make visaid
It'll compile the executable, run it, run m4, generate the visaid.svg file.
Then you can view/print/manipulate with Inkscape.
here's a picture of the layout visual aid which gets generated: (Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
And there you go the plate, so anyone wants, you can have these laser cut and install costar or cherry plate stabs. Still have to get the PCB done, that will take longer, as I am still playing around with KiCAD
(Attachment Link)
And there you go the plate, so anyone wants, you can have these laser cut and install costar or cherry plate stabs. Still have to get the PCB done, that will take longer, as I am still playing around with KiCAD
but MOZ, the PCB mechanical keyboards sells has the design with the chery pcb stabs
i like the universal design :D, its the same dimensions as the litster case right? i still want some damn new tops/bottoms cut instead of these clear ones and scratched up aluminium ones. havent exactly asked around....
Just a quick heads up that Patrick Gillespie has added the Ergodox keyboard layout to his excellent keyboard analyser, for those of you creating a custom layout this allows you to fully optimize the layout and compare existing layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc on your Ergodox!
http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer
Just a quick heads up that Patrick Gillespie has added the Ergodox keyboard layout to his excellent keyboard analyser, for those of you creating a custom layout this allows you to fully optimize the layout and compare existing layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc on your Ergodox!
http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer
Cool! However it has things like ergodox workman and gelatin (??) but not ergodox dvorak ???
Can you point me to an explanation / instructions regarding the ErgoDox "with buzzer mod"? Thanks. I'm about receive my two EgroDox PCBs from Massdrop.
Thanks, I'll look at that more closely when I understand what it means :) Which may be after the boards and parts get here.Can you point me to an explanation / instructions regarding the ErgoDox "with buzzer mod"? Thanks. I'm about receive my two EgroDox PCBs from Massdrop.Initial mod:.....
Thanks, I got a sample of a few of all three a year ago and played with them in various combinations and multiples. Use them on the 'gaming' arrow keys to shorten the throw and soften the bottom, and recently space bar and backspace and enter keys to soften the bottom and cut the noise.
I think progressive would be better. With the Cherry Blacks, I typed for years at work with no bottoming ever. So I think the bottom 2mm at 'Black' spring rating and the top 2mm at 'Red' rating might do the job.
That would mean a soft (perhaps that what you mean by mushy?) end of stroke with no sudden jolt to the fingers or accompanying impact noise.
There would be more top end stop noise though I expect as there would be greater spring return force from however much of that bottom firmer spring rate I pressed into.
I think progressive would be better. With the Cherry Blacks, I typed for years at work with no bottoming ever. So I think the bottom 2mm at 'Black' spring rating and the top 2mm at 'Red' rating might do the job.
That would mean a soft (perhaps that what you mean by mushy?) end of stroke with no sudden jolt to the fingers or accompanying impact noise.
There would be more top end stop noise though I expect as there would be greater spring return force from however much of that bottom firmer spring rate I pressed into.
The cherry MY switches are very progressive, and sound like most you describe, however many people also describe them as horrible feeling.
And they also require bottoming-out to activate, which is what it sounds like he's trying to avoid.
Anyone know when these will be avalible again?The latest Massdrop run is closed already?
Anyone know when these will be avalible again?The latest Massdrop run is closed already?
I have seen a few ready-made Massdrop-ErgoDox keyboards for sale now and then.
Technically, the plans are free and parts are available from other sources. You can get the PCB at MechanicalKeyboards.com (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=537).
There is a parts list on ErgoDox.org (http://ergodox.org/Hardware.aspx) with links to where to buy components in the US.
There are projects on this forum for other types of cases.
The PCB supports PCB-mounted switches so you won't need[/] any plate.
Keycaps are a bit harder to source. Unfortunately, the board does not support anything but 1.5u modifiers in the outermost columns.
Keycaps are a bit harder to source. Unfortunately, the board does not support anything but 1.5u modifiers in the outermost columns.
So, the left side of my Ergodox just stopped working. The computer told me that a USB device is drawing too much power and had to shut it off. I have owned and used this keyboard since June and this has never been an issue. Anybody know what's up?
So, the left side of my Ergodox just stopped working. The computer told me that a USB device is drawing too much power and had to shut it off. I have owned and used this keyboard since June and this has never been an issue. Anybody know what's up?
several possible points of failure - the expander, the 3.5mm jacks (both of which are less likely) and the more likely culprit - the trrs cable. I have had both stock cables from two kits fail on me with no reason whatsoever. Stripping the cables afterward revealed a broken wire inside both cables.
edit: if you have a multimeter, you could easily test if its the case.
For those that want "fancy" cables there are also some ebay options:
Connectors:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350883221553
White flat cable:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350890066310
I used these when i made my cableThose looks like the one that Pexon PCs used. I see his ErgoDox replacement cables are no longer available on his/their site. (isn't it a one-man operation? ...)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130864029493
(1) I have been using one of my two ergodoxen from the third MAssdrop group buy. The main issue I have with it relates to the screws in the acrylic case sticking out. Here's a picture:
(Attachment Link)
There have been mentions of rubber feet, but I haven't been able to track any down (probably due to not knowing what to look for). Is there a good solution?
(2) For my second ErgoDox, the mini-USB female connector that was shipped seems to be broken; one of the pins is actually missing. Is there a way to source it cheaply? I am in Southern California and wouldn't mind driving a bit.
(1) I have been using one of my two ergodoxen from the third MAssdrop group buy. The main issue I have with it relates to the screws in the acrylic case sticking out. Here's a picture:
(Attachment Link)
There have been mentions of rubber feet, but I haven't been able to track any down (probably due to not knowing what to look for). Is there a good solution?
I put them in the other way around, so that the bolt heads face downward since I like to think they're gentler on the surface underneath.
(1) I have been using one of my two ergodoxen from the third MAssdrop group buy. The main issue I have with it relates to the screws in the acrylic case sticking out. Here's a picture:
(Attachment Link)
There have been mentions of rubber feet, but I haven't been able to track any down (probably due to not knowing what to look for). Is there a good solution?
the mass drop pcb does not support pcb stabilizers, a later revision that mechanicalkeyboards.com sells does support pcb stabilizers
however that doesn't really matter, the litster acrylic case massdrop sells only supports costar stabilizers and does not include them.
That's too bad. Do you know how I can get an Ergodox that supports stabilizer then (other than making pcb and cases all by myself)?
EDIT:
Never mind. Costar stab is ok too.
Nice, and fix those secondary switch locations in the outer column while you are at it... ;)
(1) I have been using one of my two ergodoxen from the third MAssdrop group buy. The main issue I have with it relates to the screws in the acrylic case sticking out. Here's a picture:
(Attachment Link)
There have been mentions of rubber feet, but I haven't been able to track any down (probably due to not knowing what to look for). Is there a good solution?
(2) For my second ErgoDox, the mini-USB female connector that was shipped seems to be broken; one of the pins is actually missing. Is there a way to source it cheaply? I am in Southern California and wouldn't mind driving a bit.
Well, I have finished everything up and today I ordered the parts and the PCBs, let's hope I got everything right!
If everything works out I'll have all the parts by middle of December so I can solder it all up and give it a test.
I don't recommend anyone order one until I have tested everything out but in case you are curious what a one off PCB costs they are $226.15 for a set of 3 (ouch).
Updated link to latest version of PCB:
http://oshpark.com/shared_projects/aExJPU0W (http://oshpark.com/shared_projects/aExJPU0W)
I have ordered the original PCB from a local source, the price is roughly $80 (10 pcs).
(Attachment Link)
There are some tiny glitches (I have to remove protecting paints on some soldering points manually), but overall the price is acceptable. Next time I might order some red boards for MX red switches...
I have ordered the original PCB from a local source, the price is roughly $80 (10 pcs).
(Attachment Link)
There are some tiny glitches (I have to remove protecting paints on some soldering points manually), but overall the price is acceptable. Next time I might order some red boards for MX red switches...
Where are you located?
Looks like he is in Taiwan, makes me feel bad about paying 10 times the price :P
Kinda hard to see the board quality from the pictures, would be very interested in seeing something with higher resolution.
The original PCB uses mostly through hole and large components with large pads where .1mm errors in soldermask, pads, vias and drill patterns probably aren't a big deal but when you start dealing with smaller things like my LED driver the total width of each pad is .254mm, if the soldermask is off by .1mm that's a big deal.
Another thing to keep in mind is that some boards might not be FR4 Tg170° or better, these numbers basically tell you about the board strength, fire retardant properties, heat tolerance, etc.
Finally you have to look at the quality of the pads, how flat they are, what plating do they have etc, a pad lifting off when you have soldered most of the components is a bad bad thing.
If anyone is interested in learning a bit more about PCBs I recommend: http://www.youtube.com/user/EEVblog/search?query=pcb
I have ordered the original PCB from a local source, the price is roughly $80 (10 pcs).Nice that you have holes for PCB-mounted stabilisers. Too bad about the outermost columns not being fixed, though.
Yes, I am in Taiwan.
I know nothing about electronics, and that's why the left part of my ErgoDox is still dead (I put IC in the wrong way, my bad). I ordered these PCBs from here http://easypcbweb.blogspot.tw/ (http://easypcbweb.blogspot.tw/); however the webpage is in Traditional Chinese. According to the webpage, the PCBs use FR4 material. But other than that, I don't know how accurate the soldermasks could be. However, if your design is finalized, I would really like to test print some boards, and to see how it works.
I'm still waiting for everything to arrive here so I can test it all out, I'll be sure to post when I'm done, I'm more than a little envious you can get your PCBs for that price :)
if you have more pictures I'd be really interested if you could post some.
OK, I have taken some closed-up pictures, but they are too big to upload here.
You can see the photos at the following G+ album
https://plus.google.com/photos/106952917630137220583/albums/5949790884465297665?authkey=CKqXk9WooJiv1QE (https://plus.google.com/photos/106952917630137220583/albums/5949790884465297665?authkey=CKqXk9WooJiv1QE)
If you need more details, please let me know
OK, I have taken some closed-up pictures, but they are too big to upload here.
You can see the photos at the following G+ album
https://plus.google.com/photos/106952917630137220583/albums/5949790884465297665?authkey=CKqXk9WooJiv1QE (https://plus.google.com/photos/106952917630137220583/albums/5949790884465297665?authkey=CKqXk9WooJiv1QE)
If you need more details, please let me know
Cons
On SW:07 (last photo, switch on the top left thumb section) it looks like the through hole(s) on the right have not been plated at all, if this is the case it could cause some serious issues.
Cons
On SW:07 (last photo, switch on the top left thumb section) it looks like the through hole(s) on the right have not been plated at all, if this is the case it could cause some serious issues.
Guys, please, I want to cut Litster's acrylic case but I could not find the required thickness of each layer to make the order.
Deskthority wiki (http://deskthority.net/wiki/ErgoDox) says
"In litster's case design, the case is built from layers of acrylic (or aluminium) bolted together. The switch mounting plate layer is thicker than the usual 1.5 mm, making the switches friction-fit rather than snapped on ..."
By this picture (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89364707@N02/8656110029/) it seems that the layers 2,3 and 4 are using the same thickness ...
Please?
Been working on the RGB backlight edition, figured I'd give an update.
Been working on the RGB backlight edition, figured I'd give an update.
So the backlight will give every key the same color? We may change the colors of the two halves independently, but can not change the backlight of individual keys?
In your PCB, I see LED connection pads for every key switch. Does this mean that we can add LEDs (single color) for every key, and modify the firmware so that one may control the backlight of each and every key? For example, light up a LED when a key is pressed?
- Correct, you can set the color and intensity for each half independently, all keys show the same color and same intensity per key.
- Second, you could add individual LEDs but it's not trivial, I want to just quickly review why I chose to use a single LED per half and fibers rather than individual LEDs
Can I use a Cherry MX "wire bridge" model on the ergodox PCB? From the PCB layout, I can see that a "wire bridge" switch will shortcut the on board diode, but I can't understand the purpose of this and the implications. Can someone be kind to explain this?Hello. Welcome to the board!
Got my ErgoDox all put together! Seems like I am close to having it all working, but I am experiencing a strange problem.
The right hand side by itself seems to work fine, but as soon as the left hand side is plugged in, it starts inputting keystrokes. Normally, I would assume that just means I did some bad soldering somewhere (this is my first time soldering), but the keys it is inputting are all one row. If I open a text editor and plug in the left hand side, I get many repetitions of "arstd<Tab>" until I push down lots of keys and (I'm assuming) exceed the rollover limit. At this point, no keys will work until it is unplugged. I use Colemak, so this is more or less the home row.
This seems like it could be a coincidence, but I am more inclined to think it's not and that there is a reason why this row is behaving this way.
When I look on the PCB, it appears that the keys are connected in columns so I was unable to just find a short somewhere that could affect an entire row.
Any help is appreciated. :thumb:
Can I use a Cherry MX "wire bridge" model on the ergodox PCB? From the PCB layout, I can see that a "wire bridge" switch will shortcut the on board diode, but I can't understand the purpose of this and the implications. Can someone be kind to explain this?Hello. Welcome to the board!
Short story: If you bypass the diode with a jumper wire then you will get extra unwanted "phantom" key presses ("ghost keys") on certain key combinations with three keys or more.
Long story: The key switches are organised (logically) in a matrix with each key switch in a junction, connecting a row and a column together when the key is pressed. The microcontroller puts current on each row in turn and senses the columns for key presses on that row. If one key on that row is pressed and another key on the same column as that key is pressed, then current would flow backwards to the second key's row - which wasn't intended. There is therefore also a diode at each switch, stopping current from flowing backwards.
Cheap keyboards don't have diodes - instead they have sparser matrices, and the microcontroller detects in software when there is even a slight possibility of a ghost key - and blocks further key presses from being registered. Therefore, cheap keyboards don't support certain key combinations of three keys - they are said to have only "2-key rollover".
The reason for those pads/holes in the PCB is for using diodes inside the Cherry MX switches. Cherry sells switches with diodes in them to manufacturers, and many older keyboards use them. Most newer keyboards with Cherry MX switches have diodes outside the switch.
The ErgoDox is designed so that you can build it with or without a switch mounting plate. Without a plate, using a diode or jumper wire inside the switch will increase its stability. With a plate, the wire/diode is not necessary.
if you use inside diodes you still have to open up each switch to make sure the diodes are in the correct direction and pull them out and flip them if they arent, they are different direction for the left and right hand
If it is a diode - it means that I don't have to solder an external diode, right ?Right ... if you are going for the standard layout. If you want 1×1-sized keys instead of 1×2-sized keys for the thumb keys, then you would have to place the diodes for those keys outside.
If it is a wire bridge - I can not use it because it will short the external diode and cancel it - I will have ghosting. right?You could open each switch and remove the wires. Tedious work, though.
if you use inside diodes you still have to open up each switch to make sure the diodes are in the correct direction and pull them out and flip them if they arent, they are different direction for the left and right hand
I used switches with integrated diodes and didn't have to do that. If you compile the firmware yourself, you can select your own diode direction for the left and right half of the keyboard independently, by commenting / uncommenting a couple lines in one of the files.
Help! I just finished building my Ergodox and it worked fine on my computer, but after removing the cables and plugging them back in later on, my computer showed a message that said the USB device was not recognized. I tried connecting the USB straight into the Teensy and that worked fine, so I assumed it was a bad connection with the mini USB ports, I resoldered that and it worked fine again. But when I removed the cables and reconnected them, the same problem occurred saying that the USB device was not recognized, once again I tried connecting to the Teensy and it worked.
Does the problem lie with the mini USB connectors? I used a new USB cable when I resoldered it the first time so I doubt there is a problem with that. I checked my solder joints and they look fine to me, does anyone know where the problem may be coming from? Do I need to be downloading a firmware or something? Cause all I did was download the hex file from massdrop's configuration.
Thanks for reading :D
Got my first set of custom ErgoDOX RGB Backlit PCBs, as can be expected there were a couple of bugs/issues.That purple PCB is hot, especially if I make a Ghost in the Shell inspired themed Ergodox that uses dark purple, light purple, and dark grey colors.
I'll try to list them here in hope it might help others ordering prototype PCBs.
- Kicad created two separate drill files, one for the NPTH holes and another for the functional (through hole mount, etc), unfortunately OSHPark only processed one by default, NPTH drill file was not processed so all my mechanical holes are missing, I'll just manually drill them for the prototypes but this would have been a disaster for any volume production.
Luckily for future OSHPark runs I can merge the two Excellon drill files using GerbV (import each file and then export merge them to a new file).- My second issue which I already mentioned is that some of my ground pads were not connected to the ground plane, this is due to re-importing from the schematics and redrawing the filled areas, unfortunately this can clear connection settings from existing modules.
- The third issue that I also mentioned before is that the USB connector uses plated slots, this unfortunately is not supported by OSHPark, they replaced it with a small throughhole, it could probably have been
replaced by a larger through hole enabling the whole connector to fit but alas.- One of the optional switch positions in the outermost column was still wrong.
I'm sure I'll discover more issues as I start soldering and testing but at least the boards are good enough to do the testing.
(Attachment Link)
And here is a link to an updated OSHPark project with the issues fixed, I still don't recommend anyone order this thing until it's tested and verified.
http://oshpark.com/shared_projects/xx7D5F59
Got my first set of custom ErgoDOX RGB Backlit PCBs, as can be expected there were a couple of bugs/issues.That purple PCB is hot, especially if I make a Ghost in the Shell inspired themed Ergodox that uses dark purple, light purple, and dark grey colors.
I'll try to list them here in hope it might help others ordering prototype PCBs.
- Kicad created two separate drill files, one for the NPTH holes and another for the functional (through hole mount, etc), unfortunately OSHPark only processed one by default, NPTH drill file was not processed so all my mechanical holes are missing, I'll just manually drill them for the prototypes but this would have been a disaster for any volume production.
Luckily for future OSHPark runs I can merge the two Excellon drill files using GerbV (import each file and then export merge them to a new file).- My second issue which I already mentioned is that some of my ground pads were not connected to the ground plane, this is due to re-importing from the schematics and redrawing the filled areas, unfortunately this can clear connection settings from existing modules.
- The third issue that I also mentioned before is that the USB connector uses plated slots, this unfortunately is not supported by OSHPark, they replaced it with a small throughhole, it could probably have been
replaced by a larger through hole enabling the whole connector to fit but alas.- One of the optional switch positions in the outermost column was still wrong.
I'm sure I'll discover more issues as I start soldering and testing but at least the boards are good enough to do the testing.
(Attachment Link)
And here is a link to an updated OSHPark project with the issues fixed, I still don't recommend anyone order this thing until it's tested and verified.
http://oshpark.com/shared_projects/xx7D5F59
Are you able to control the thing?
- I2C is being a real pane in the ass, I seem to be able to talk to everything and anything except the darned LED controller, which I'm able to talk to but every time I fetch a register from it it just returns FF regardless of which register I'm reading, that's quite strange.
Are you able to control the thing?
- I2C is being a real pane in the ass, I seem to be able to talk to everything and anything except the darned LED controller, which I'm able to talk to but every time I fetch a register from it it just returns FF regardless of which register I'm reading, that's quite strange.
0xFF sounds like it isn't trying to respond.
Are you sure that the address bits are set correctly? I've seen some datasheets give the address already <<1, while others do not.
Are you sending a start, addr+R sequence?
Have you set the device's read pointer to the correct address before issuing the start, addr+R command?
You likely delivered a crippling static blow to the teensy.
time to cough up $20 and replace it.
Oh, nevermind. I see, one of the in-switch LED holes just connects to ground. Okay, got it. Thanks!
I think I'm going to hook it up without using the LED circuits at all, for the moment, and then play around with a separate teensy & some LEDs on a breadboard until I figure out what I want to do.
In theory, I should be able to hook up a multicolored RGB LED as part of those 3 circuits and mod the keyboard firmware to set it to arbitrary colors, right? That sounds more fun than just 3 separate LEDs. :-)
The switches are PCB mounted on mine and several others that I've seen. I don't know if a plate mounted version exists or if there are plans for it though. Someone more knowledgeable should answer that.
The switches are PCB mounted on mine and several others that I've seen. I don't know if a plate mounted version exists or if there are plans for it though. Someone more knowledgeable should answer that.
Thanks for the help. I'm thinking of making a dirt cheap ergodox case out of legos lying around and not missing out on a plate makes the incentive higher
In theory, I should be able to hook up a multicolored RGB LED as part of those 3 circuits and mod the keyboard firmware to set it to arbitrary colors, right? That sounds more fun than just 3 separate LEDs. :-)
Sorry for noob question but are the switches PCB or plate mounted?
I'ts strange, I was using the Wire library with Sketch to prototype and I think it might be a bug in the library, I'm rewriting from scratch in C with better debug capabilities to show actual signals as they are put on the wire.
I've read the datasheet 10 times and I'm pretty sure I understand it and unless the chip is malfunctioning (which I doubt since it drives the LEDs fine) all the evidence is pointing to the library.
I was able to find the chip on the bus and it ACKed correctly, I also put a second I2C device on the same physical bus and was able to communicate with it without any issues.
I was also able to send it a read request (write the register and then read) with the register and from what I could see it responded correctly except all the data was just FF.
I'm able to control the LED's with PWM signals but without the I2C I can't control the brightness, current, or detect errors.
I'll post again once I have a C implementation with more debugging info.Are you able to control the thing?
- I2C is being a real pane in the ass, I seem to be able to talk to everything and anything except the darned LED controller, which I'm able to talk to but every time I fetch a register from it it just returns FF regardless of which register I'm reading, that's quite strange.
0xFF sounds like it isn't trying to respond.
Are you sure that the address bits are set correctly? I've seen some datasheets give the address already <<1, while others do not.
Are you sending a start, addr+R sequence?
Have you set the device's read pointer to the correct address before issuing the start, addr+R command?
The switches are PCB mounted on mine and several others that I've seen. I don't know if a plate mounted version exists or if there are plans for it though. Someone more knowledgeable should answer that.
Thanks for the help. I'm thinking of making a dirt cheap ergodox case out of legos lying around and not missing out on a plate makes the incentive higher
That would be something to see! There's a thread with Lego Poker cases people made around here somewhere you can look at for inspiration. Can't seem to find it.
I was asleep on the last quick drop. I guess i will have to wait another 1-2 months for another drop.Show Image(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-001.gif)
More suffering on this laptop scissor switch keyboardShow Image(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/1b38f9e2.gif)
I was asleep on the last quick drop. I guess i will have to wait another 1-2 months for another drop.Show Image(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-001.gif)
More suffering on this laptop scissor switch keyboardShow Image(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/1b38f9e2.gif)
quick drop?
I was asleep on the last quick drop. I guess i will have to wait another 1-2 months for another drop.Show Image(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-001.gif)
More suffering on this laptop scissor switch keyboardShow Image(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/1b38f9e2.gif)
quick drop?
you don't use quickdrop? where have you been?
The switches are PCB mounted on mine and several others that I've seen. I don't know if a plate mounted version exists or if there are plans for it though. Someone more knowledgeable should answer that.
Thanks for the help. I'm thinking of making a dirt cheap ergodox case out of legos lying around and not missing out on a plate makes the incentive higher
That would be something to see! There's a thread with Lego Poker cases people made around here somewhere you can look at for inspiration. Can't seem to find it.
Does anyone have a reliable source for the standard acrylic cases? Doesn't look like anyone sells them on their own reliably, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
I can get them custom cut from the cad files, but I'm sure that would wind up costing a lot more...
I would also really like to know if there is a good place to source them, I just asked a similar question in the IC for Proper ErgoDOX case thread and listed the options I know of to source ErgoDOX cases.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47408.msg1160289#msg1160289Does anyone have a reliable source for the standard acrylic cases? Doesn't look like anyone sells them on their own reliably, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
I can get them custom cut from the cad files, but I'm sure that would wind up costing a lot more...
Progress report on the back-light work.
- I'm successfully reading and writing to the LM3549 LED Driver via I2C, currently working on building out a library to make all the functions easily available.
- For some reason the green diode won't light up, everything measures fine, voltages are good, no shorts, it does require higher voltages than the others to drive it, I'll figure it out later.
- I'm dealing with some resonance issues with the inductor, there is an annoying hum at some intensities when it's powering LEDs.
- The through holes for the fibers are a bit to tight, I'll change them to allow more clearance.
- I've also been thinking about the effectiveness issues with the light pipe, I'm wondering if I can turn it into an inside out mirror by "silvering" it like a mirror, hence any light that would otherwise escape should be reflected until cough by the light pipe/fibers.
- I think the design could also use some mechanical holes to hold down the fibers
I was previously unaware of RGB LEDs, and thought that I would be able to at most represent 8 states with the 3 LEDs (2^3) without resorting to something like morse code, however with these I will be able to represent k^3 states, where k is the number of unique colors each LED can display, very cool!In theory, I should be able to hook up a multicolored RGB LED as part of those 3 circuits and mod the keyboard firmware to set it to arbitrary colors, right? That sounds more fun than just 3 separate LEDs. :-)
This idea is cool! :thumb:
I just order a few RGB LEDs, will test and see how it worked
I was previously unaware of RGB LEDs, and thought that I would be able to at most represent 8 states with the 3 LEDs (2^3) without resorting to something like morse code, however with these I will be able to represent k^3 states, where k is the number of unique colors each LED can display, very cool!In theory, I should be able to hook up a multicolored RGB LED as part of those 3 circuits and mod the keyboard firmware to set it to arbitrary colors, right? That sounds more fun than just 3 separate LEDs. :-)
This idea is cool! :thumb:
I just order a few RGB LEDs, will test and see how it worked
In theory, I should be able to hook up a multicolored RGB LED as part of those 3 circuits and mod the keyboard firmware to set it to arbitrary colors, right? That sounds more fun than just 3 separate LEDs. :-)
This idea is cool! :thumb:
I just order a few RGB LEDs, will test and see how it worked
You likely delivered a crippling static blow to the teensy.
time to cough up $20 and replace it.
Yeah, I suppose you are right, just strange it works fine through a USB hub. I went and ordered a new one... I'm just not looking forward to the desoldering; I've got solder wick and it never works like I want it to. Maybe I'll try a pump this time.
Looking for a bit more advice here: I tested the new teensy and confirmed USB works as expected, but before I solder it in, I want to make sure I don't go and shock that one too.
Looking for a bit more advice here: I tested the new teensy and confirmed USB works as expected, but before I solder it in, I want to make sure I don't go and shock that one too.
Have a read through the materials linked to from here:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=340899
They are:
http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/~schubert/Course-Teaching-modules/A041-Human-body-model-and-electrostatic-discharge-ESD.pdf
http://www-tcad.stanford.edu/tcad/pubs/theses/sbeebe.pdf
http://www.nxp.com/documents/application_note/AN10753.pdf
Some SWAGs on my part:
Perhaps you can make a high-resistance (500kOhm?) connection to from the plate to GND,
as well as a capacitive connection with a small value (perhaps 4.7nF) 0805 cap.
The capacitance will drop the peak voltage, pass the pulse through to GND,
the resistor will drain the charge away.
Maybe you can put one of their fancy ESD diodes into play as a way to ensure that your
discharge goes to gnd...
Maybe you can turn on the humidier!
Looking for a bit more advice here: I tested the new teensy and confirmed USB works as expected, but before I solder it in, I want to make sure I don't go and shock that one too.
Have a read through the materials linked to from here:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=340899
They are:
http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/~schubert/Course-Teaching-modules/A041-Human-body-model-and-electrostatic-discharge-ESD.pdf
http://www-tcad.stanford.edu/tcad/pubs/theses/sbeebe.pdf
http://www.nxp.com/documents/application_note/AN10753.pdf
Some SWAGs on my part:
Perhaps you can make a high-resistance (500kOhm?) connection to from the plate to GND,
as well as a capacitive connection with a small value (perhaps 4.7nF) 0805 cap.
The capacitance will drop the peak voltage, pass the pulse through to GND,
the resistor will drain the charge away.
Maybe you can put one of their fancy ESD diodes into play as a way to ensure that your
discharge goes to gnd...
Maybe you can turn on the humidier!
Is the teensy 3.0 usable for an ergodox? [...] Also can I just use the left side without using the right side of the ergodox?
Don't know if anyone else has had this problem or if this was reported ago but I have a problem with the ergodox code that massdrop gave. Whenever I press the 7 key on the keyboard it spits out "8-0=8-9=08-" instead of seven. I've circumventing this through using a numpad layer. Does anyone have any experience with this problem? Thanks.
Don't know if anyone else has had this problem or if this was reported ago but I have a problem with the ergodox code that massdrop gave. Whenever I press the 7 key on the keyboard it spits out "8-0=8-9=08-" instead of seven. I've circumventing this through using a numpad layer. Does anyone have any experience with this problem? Thanks.
You could try this old build of rev-1 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8bbol6fkvydmtmg/QLudrdEyc9) if you like. If the behavior persists, it's most likely a hardware problem.
Don't know if anyone else has had this problem or if this was reported ago but I have a problem with the ergodox code that massdrop gave. Whenever I press the 7 key on the keyboard it spits out "8-0=8-9=08-" instead of seven. I've circumventing this through using a numpad layer. Does anyone have any experience with this problem? Thanks.
You could try this old build of rev-1 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8bbol6fkvydmtmg/QLudrdEyc9) if you like. If the behavior persists, it's most likely a hardware problem.
I tried the old build but it didn't work. I have noticed now that if I turn on number lock then my 7 key types out 09=8-=. I guess I'll just keep number lock turned off, not like there's a number pad to this keyboard. But because it is acting this way, I don't know if it is a hardware problem. I should also say that my 7 key is at the position of the numlock key on the old build but I'm using a different layout from the massdrop customizer, don't know if that would cause a problem.
Looking for a bit more advice here: I tested the new teensy and confirmed USB works as expected, but before I solder it in, I want to make sure I don't go and shock that one too.
Have a read through the materials linked to from here:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=340899
They are:
http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/~schubert/Course-Teaching-modules/A041-Human-body-model-and-electrostatic-discharge-ESD.pdf
http://www-tcad.stanford.edu/tcad/pubs/theses/sbeebe.pdf
http://www.nxp.com/documents/application_note/AN10753.pdf
Some SWAGs on my part:
Perhaps you can make a high-resistance (500kOhm?) connection to from the plate to GND,
as well as a capacitive connection with a small value (perhaps 4.7nF) 0805 cap.
The capacitance will drop the peak voltage, pass the pulse through to GND,
the resistor will drain the charge away.
Maybe you can put one of their fancy ESD diodes into play as a way to ensure that your
discharge goes to gnd...
Maybe you can turn on the humidier!
I've become interested in the Ergodox and after some poking around it looks like I can get everything I'd need to make one minus the case for under $150.00. I'm still searching for a reasonably priced plate and case but so far it's looking like the set from safeway for 200 is about all I'm finding unless I wait for the next massdrop GB. Does anyone have any other suggestions? I'd prefer something in the full hand design ideally, but I'm not too picky thus far.
I would also really like to know if there is a good place to source them, I just asked a similar question in the IC for Proper ErgoDOX case thread and listed the options I know of to source ErgoDOX cases.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47408.msg1160289#msg1160289Does anyone have a reliable source for the standard acrylic cases? Doesn't look like anyone sells them on their own reliably, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
I can get them custom cut from the cad files, but I'm sure that would wind up costing a lot more...
I would also really like to know if there is a good place to source them, I just asked a similar question in the IC for Proper ErgoDOX case thread and listed the options I know of to source ErgoDOX cases.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47408.msg1160289#msg1160289Does anyone have a reliable source for the standard acrylic cases? Doesn't look like anyone sells them on their own reliably, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
I can get them custom cut from the cad files, but I'm sure that would wind up costing a lot more...
FYI, I ended up getting my case done by Craig at laser-4-u.com
It came out perfect, but was a bit expensive ($90 including material). That said, it sounded like subsequent cases could be done for ~$50 each. Turnaround time was one day, so that was nice.
I would also really like to know if there is a good place to source them, I just asked a similar question in the IC for Proper ErgoDOX case thread and listed the options I know of to source ErgoDOX cases.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47408.msg1160289#msg1160289Does anyone have a reliable source for the standard acrylic cases? Doesn't look like anyone sells them on their own reliably, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
I can get them custom cut from the cad files, but I'm sure that would wind up costing a lot more...
FYI, I ended up getting my case done by Craig at laser-4-u.com
It came out perfect, but was a bit expensive ($90 including material). That said, it sounded like subsequent cases could be done for ~$50 each. Turnaround time was one day, so that was nice.
Was that the classic or the full hand? Shapeways wants close to 200 or a bit more for the basic 3D printed case Dox designed.
90 sounds better than 200 but if a few us went in and could drop the price further that might be something to consider.
@jdc0589:
Good to know that acrylic cases can be had for a fairly reasonable price. Back during the first run when Massdrop was letting people special order only pieces of kits (which I fully took advantage of :) ), the cost-to-customer for an acrylic case seemed to be around $80.
@everyone:
Rounded the corners of my acrylic case today, if anyone's interested! Courtesy of my Dad's tools and experience :) . It may seem like a little mod, but it makes a huge difference.
(Attachment Link)
Hi all, got a question here.
Currently Litster's ErgoDox Classic case comprises of the following parts:
Layer 1 Top - 3mm
Layer 2 Spacer - 5mm
Layer 3 Plate - 5mm
Layer 4 Spacer - 5mm
Layer 5 Bottom - 3mm
What would I need to take note of if I were to replace the 3 5mm pieces of acrylic with 5 3mm pieces? Would anyone here be willing to create the .dxf files required if changes in the design are necessary?
I am looking into getting acrylic cases made with different colours but planning to run very few numbers at first. 5mm costs more than 3mm so using only the latter is one way to bring costs down. I don't have access to my own ErgoDox at the moment hence the question here.
Hi all, got a question here.
Currently Litster's ErgoDox Classic case comprises of the following parts:
Layer 1 Top - 3mm
Layer 2 Spacer - 5mm
Layer 3 Plate - 5mm
Layer 4 Spacer - 5mm
Layer 5 Bottom - 3mm
What would I need to take note of if I were to replace the 3 5mm pieces of acrylic with 5 3mm pieces? Would anyone here be willing to create the .dxf files required if changes in the design are necessary?
I am looking into getting acrylic cases made with different colours but planning to run very few numbers at first. 5mm costs more than 3mm so using only the latter is one way to bring costs down. I don't have access to my own ErgoDox at the moment hence the question here.
I recently got a case cut in 3mm sheets and this is how it must be:
Layer 1 Top
Layer 2 Spacer
Layer 2 Spacer*
Layer 3 Plate*
Layer 4 Spacer
Layer 4 Spacer
Layer 4 Spacer (Depending on exact thickness of the acrylic sheet)
Layer 5 Bottom
I know it is ~3mm thicker than the litster case, however since you need atleast 8.5mm clearance from the top of the switch to the bottom and many at times, the acrylic sheet for 3mm vary from 2.7-3.3, it can be very tight with only two "Layer 4 Spacer", thus you might need 3.
You will need two "Layer 2 Spacer" above the plate for the Teensy.
Layers marked with * need notches where the connectors go. This notch is already present on Layer 3, but you will have to edit it for Layer 2.
Got my first set of custom ErgoDOX RGB Backlit PCBs, as can be expected there were a couple of bugs/issues.
[...]
And here is a link to an updated OSHPark project with the issues fixed, I still don't recommend anyone order this thing until it's tested and verified.
http://oshpark.com/shared_projects/xx7D5F59
Just wanted to give a heads up, I'm starting work on an ErgoDox with:
- Correct PCB mount stabs
- Alps + MX switch support
- LED backlit
- Onboard SMD components, so no need for a Teensy.
- Keeping the same form factor, so current cases can be used.
Other suggestions welcome.
I feel out of the loop - what's the current status of the firmware? I haven't touched the firmware since I put together my round 3 one. I'd like to have media keys and whatnot!
There've been several reports of bad TRRS cables. Don't forget each joint on the teensy headers...
does the regular dox pcb work with alps switches?The answer you want is no, but there's a post on DT by Czarek to which I replied. Did you know you can set those switches neatly into holes on the PCB, and they even line up? :p Don't get your hopes up, though. That isn't helpful.
where do people buy the alps switches?
Just wanted to give a heads up, I'm starting work on an ErgoDox with:
- Correct PCB mount stabs
- Alps + MX switch support
- LED backlit
- Onboard SMD components, so no need for a Teensy.
- Keeping the same form factor, so current cases can be used.
Other suggestions welcome.
Sounds great!
In a post on DT (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ergodox-pcbs-cases-electronics-and-assembly-services-t6972-60.html) (today ;D), czarek said that ergodox works with ALPS already. He posted a pic as well:
(Attachment Link)
Oh.... my.....Guys ... guys. It won't work. The switches fit because the 'dox uses a single, flippable PCB. They're going into the same pin.
oh my oh my oh my....
Oh.... my.....Guys ... guys. It won't work. The switches fit because the 'dox uses a single, flippable PCB. They're going into the same pin.
oh my oh my oh my....THE SAME PIN
So you could, as I said over there, do this ... but your kbd would have columns, but no rows. Or possibly the reverse I'm not sure but ... aquakeys would fail this arrangement promptly and soundly.
No compatibility. Collect the pieces of your mind, and kindly reassemble them. Now.
Guys ... guys. It won't work. The switches fit because the 'dox uses a single, flippable PCB. They're going into the same pin.THE SAME PIN
So you could, as I said over there, do this ... but your kbd would have columns, but no rows. Or possibly the reverse I'm not sure but ... aquakeys would fail this arrangement promptly and soundly.
No compatibility. Collect the pieces of your mind, and kindly reassemble them. Now.
Well, as Matias switches are $50/100ct it's not gonna cost much to experiment.On 7bit more cheaper :)
Well, as Matias switches are $50/100ct it's not gonna cost much to experiment.
Order custom on SP :rolleyes:Well, as Matias switches are $50/100ct it's not gonna cost much to experiment.
I don't have Alps keycaps to test if the orientation is correct or not, otherwise I might have given this a go :(
Does anyone know an alternative part to the 3.5mm TRRS plugs?I do. I have soldered on FC68129, but had to snip off a couple of pins that are unused on the ErgoDox.
Does anyone know an alternative part to the 3.5mm TRRS plugs?I do. I have soldered on FC68129, but had to snip off a couple of pins that are unused on the ErgoDox.
As far as I can tell from datasheets and from fitting them on, they are identical to the CP-43514 except for those extra pins.
I have yet to complete my build with switches and firmware, so I have not tested to be able to confirm 100%. I suggest that you download and compare the datasheets for yourself if you are unsure. It is easy to get confused, though, by different datasheets using different numbering and orientation.
I only got my custom-made plates in the mail today, that I had designed a few months ago. The laser-cutting firm first delayed processing my order over a month, then they goofed the scale and made it much too big, but the result I got today is OK. :)
Now, with the plates in hand, I can continue with the next step of installing switches and diodes. :)
I don't know. I got it because I could not get the recommended part. They look the same from the outside.I have soldered on FC68129, but had to snip off a couple of pins that are unused on the ErgoDox.is that part better? the stock one that comes with the kit is a bit low quality/flimsy
Not sure how I feel about it needing pins trimmed, but as it's a TRRS connector, it should only need 2 active pins, the others should be grounding or something.There are four signal lines, all of which are needed for the keyboard to function.
For some reason, my ergodox which I'm using for months, started freezing. It happens 4-5 times a day and the only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. Any idea as to why it could be happening ?I'll start with checking the continuity of the trrs cable.
For some reason, my ergodox which I'm using for months, started freezing. It happens 4-5 times a day and the only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. Any idea as to why it could be happening ?I'll start with checking the continuity of the trrs cable.
Its the poor quality of the stock cables included with the kit that's the problem rather than the choice of trrs connectors itself. If the wires used are thin and poorly soldered, even micro usb wouldn't help.
Just make your own trrs cables with better wires. I've yet to have an issue with the connectors using my own cables.
Or alternatively, hardwire the two halves together.
My vote would be RJ11 based:DSL :D
It's very common
It's affordable
Easy to make
There is a wide selection of cables available, including retracting, braided and curly
The PCB footprint is fairly similar to the one currently on the ErgoDOX, would not require a major PDB redesign
im pretty abusive when it comes to the connectors, i have a keyboard tray thing, its more of a extension of my desk on a arm than it is a traditional slide out tray. I keep ramming my ergo dox into my desk which destroys the cables over time but it also destroys the connectors on the ErgoDox in addition to just trading out keyboards a lot. Ive bought a bunch on digikey; Ive had to replace the TRRS and USB connectors on my ergodox at least 4 times on my white/aluminium ergodox and once on my acrylic fullhand ergodox.
On the white/aluminium one, i replaced the ports recently and its still giving me a problem so i think from all the de-soldering and soldering i damaged the PCB so i either need to fix or replace the pcb :( i need freaking right angle connectors.....
heck USB B uses four wires, too. PCB mount female USB-B connectors seem plentiful, whereas RJ11, a beautiful solution, seems to be falling out of vogue as fewer people rely on landlines for communication. Maybe RJ45 and just ignore the other wires?
For some reason, my ergodox which I'm using for months, started freezing. It happens 4-5 times a day and the only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. Any idea as to why it could be happening ?I'll start with checking the continuity of the trrs cable.
TRRS cable is fine. I can wiggle the cable and tug on the connectors, and the keyboard types fine throughout all that. It's very odd, since the keyboard is stationary, I'm not moving it around or anything, so there's absolutely no wear on the cables and connectors.
I can't yet explain why it freezes occasionally. Sometimes I leave the computer, come back after a few minutes, and find the keyboard unresponsive. I then unplug/plug it back and all is fine.
It has never done it while I'm actively typing, all the times it froze, I was actually not typing at that moment.
Mine just started doing that two days ago. It's very intermittent, but it's damned annoying :(
Hey, I'm done assembling my ergodox, and have come upon the "left side not working" issue. I read to some threads and followed people's debugging advice, but it's still not working for me. Here's what I've tried:
- Checked all solder joints on connectors, resistors, and IO boards
- Measured VCC across the board, also to the left side, 5v all around
- Checked for continuity between connector pads, all good
- My diodes are correctly oriented on both sides
I'm starting to think "bad IO controller", but I wouldn't know how to verify that. Anything else I should be looking at? Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks :)
There've been several reports of bad TRRS cables. Don't forget each joint on the teensy headers...
As stated above, I've tested continuity across both boards on all 4 pads. This would only be true if I connected the cable between the boards, right? So I'm ruling out a bad cable.
I also checked the joints on the teensy, especially PD0 and PD1 as stated in another thread.
EDIT: Just figured out something is odd with the right hand side. All the columns are shifted 1 to the right, so on the right hand the rightmost column "doesn't exist" and the leftmost column the middle row is sending a [ character. If this can help to diagnose my case...
I took some pictures of my solder joints. The PCB has a few marks as I soldered the teensy and the IO controller on the wrong sides the first time. The IO controller now on the board is not the first one I used, as that one was too heavily damaged by desoldering, those pins are pretty thin. The headers on the teensy were also replaced. Anyone see anything that I might be missing? Did I just f* it up with all the rework?I can't make out much at the resolution of those images...
Gallery on imgur, didn't want to spam 7 pics inline:
http://imgur.com/a/TySxE (http://imgur.com/a/TySxE)
BTW, in retrospect, I'd advise anyone who reads this, that if you end up soldering the diodes and controllers on the same side of the PCB, and want to flip things back the right way, it is IMHO an easier task to desolder the diodes... even though that is not the shortest path by intuition ;)
I can't make out much at the resolution of those images...
Nothing looks alarming to me, but maybe 'cause I can't see much.
Find your local makerspace and have someone help you with
an oscilloscope to see what the I2C bus looks like. You should
see the serial comms traffic on the lines, and it should have nice,
sharp falling edges with no noise. Measure at the I2C pins of the
IOX and at the Teensy. That'll be your guide.
1 of 3 things: Replace Teensy, fix soldering/wires, replace IOX.
I can't make out much at the resolution of those images...
Nothing looks alarming to me, but maybe 'cause I can't see much.
Find your local makerspace and have someone help you with
an oscilloscope to see what the I2C bus looks like. You should
see the serial comms traffic on the lines, and it should have nice,
sharp falling edges with no noise. Measure at the I2C pins of the
IOX and at the Teensy. That'll be your guide.
1 of 3 things: Replace Teensy, fix soldering/wires, replace IOX.
Oops, sorry about that, here is original resolution : http://imgur.com/a/vf8L4 (http://imgur.com/a/vf8L4)
Thanks for the tip about the I2C, I'll look into that and report back.
On a completely different tack, I'm considering putting LEDs into my 'dox board ... but had already sorta slopped a bit too much solder while putting sod-323 SMD diodes at each pin before looking and realizing that, unlike the phantom, the LEDs seem to be instead of diodes ... the other place up near the top is "just" for the resistors (am I right?)
If I want LEDs now, do I have to use this as my left-hand side, and put the SMD diodes on the bottom of both boards, or do I have more alternatives despite my limitations of using a Weller 23PL and not owning a solder-sucker or the like? (note: google doesn't even want to admit I have this thing (http://www.homedepot.ca/product/weller-solder-iron-25-watt/900922).)
I'me quite sure I get what you mean but you can swap the resistor and LED positions.So, just so I don't have to type 2,000 words, this:
On a completely different tack, I'm considering putting LEDs into my 'dox board ... but had already sorta slopped a bit too much solder while putting sod-323 SMD diodes at each pin before looking and realizing that, unlike the phantom, the LEDs seem to be instead of diodes ... the other place up near the top is "just" for the resistors (am I right?)
If I want LEDs now, do I have to use this as my left-hand side, and put the SMD diodes on the bottom of both boards, or do I have more alternatives despite my limitations of using a Weller 23PL and not owning a solder-sucker or the like? (note: google doesn't even want to admit I have this thing (http://www.homedepot.ca/product/weller-solder-iron-25-watt/900922).)
can only one side be used
like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?
iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes
can only one side be used
like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?
iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes
Well, I had to remove some error handling from the firmware to make it work without the TRRS cable
can only one side be used
like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?
iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes
I don't have one (in the mail still) but I have read that there is some kind of firmware check for the left side that stops it working. There is a way to remove that by modifying the fw though. I'll have to see if I can find the post, someone said they did this when they had a failing trrs cable or plug (between the hands).
has anyone tried painting the anodized aluminum top layer massdrop sells with the ergodox? what is the best way to paint anodized aluminum. just buy special spray paint?There are several brands that have lines of transparent paint specifically intended for colouring bare shiny metal to make it look like colour-anodized aluminium.
can only one side be used
like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?
iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes
I don't have one (in the mail still) but I have read that there is some kind of firmware check for the left side that stops it working. There is a way to remove that by modifying the fw though. I'll have to see if I can find the post, someone said they did this when they had a failing trrs cable or plug (between the hands).
hmm, decisions
can only one side be used
like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?
iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes
I don't have one (in the mail still) but I have read that there is some kind of firmware check for the left side that stops it working. There is a way to remove that by modifying the fw though. I'll have to see if I can find the post, someone said they did this when they had a failing trrs cable or plug (between the hands).
that's exactly what I expect for the next ErgoDOX, Moz, keep that going :p
that's exactly what I expect for the next ErgoDOX, Moz, keep that going :p
Expect what? :P
that's exactly what I expect for the next ErgoDOX, Moz, keep that going :p
Expect what? :P
How open are people to the idea of 6 extra keys up top on the ergodox aligned towards the inner side of the keyboard.any draft drawing you can show?
I ask this, as currently it is proving to be impossible to fit all the controller components on the PCB since it is double sides and I want the components to be mountable on either side, accessible at the bottom, so you need not remove switches to access them. This is very hard with the flip-able design, so I will most likely have to mount them up top (Where the Teensy is currently), I might be able to squeeze it in one corner on the outermost side.
well, the code's up on github, get to it clicky ;)
...How hard can it be?heh, that's the question isn't it ;) i've hacked at the ergodox specific code that ic07 put together and for that my answer would be "harder than i'd like, but prolly not nearly as hard as it could have been"
edit: I'm using tmk firmware btw.
I was thinking about a little mod for the ergodox.
Do u guys think that making the 2 keys 1.5 would be better from the ergonomically point of view?
I think these 2 keys are hit with the thumb?
Why not replace the third column's 2 1u keys with 1 2u key
Can anyone point me to the next Massdrop GB on the ErgoDox? I'd like to buy a couple of them.
thx,
skc
Can anyone point me to the next Massdrop GB on the ErgoDox? I'd like to buy a couple of them.
thx,
skc
Do u guys think that making the 2 keys 1.5 would be better from the ergonomically point of view?
I think these 2 keys are hit with the thumb?
wow. i just arrived at an uncharted place in geekhack wonderland. :p
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Hey chaps, been running into a bit of a problem with my dox, some of the keys on the right hand side (the side with the teensy) are intermittently not registering or registering twice. Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem might be? I've already checked all the solder joints on the switches and none of those seem to be the problem.
4) None of the la 1+-1 keys register. I freely admit that this could be the way I'm testing the keyboard, though, because I'm using the EventViewer program that comes with "KeyRemap4Macbook" program, and it shows keypress events as interpreted by the system, not raw USB input. It could be that those keys don't do anything on a Mac, because I haven't heard of them until now.that'll be layer shifting keys which don't do anything to feed back to the host. it's something internal to the keyboard so that you can program it to send different key events when you switch layers - think about a laptop keyboard that has a numberpad sharing with the letter keys, you can use it to do stuff like that.
Thanks, definitely helpful, that'll help me figure out whether or not they work.
On that note, another pad has come off, this one on the Enter key (one of the ones that I thought wasn't working because of the bad connection). I can ignore a missing extra Command key, but not having an Enter key will make the keyboard essentially unusable. If there's anybody who can help with that, I'd sure appreciate it.
I’m putting together an Ergodox, and would like to put the LEDs somewhere visible [e.g. up at the top] instead of buried inside a solid black keycap.
One option is supposed to be swapping the positions of the LEDs and the resistors, but I can’t find any pictures/descriptions online of exactly how that is done. Where exactly should I be putting the resistors? The holes for the LED leads are very close together, so I guess I have to attach at least one end of the resistor by bending its lead back to fit, or perhaps via a tiny bit of patch cable?
Does anyone have other advice about this?
Sounds like your board has a lot of problems! It is almost certainly because of shoddy soldering.Yeah, no kidding. The people I've spoken to who told me that this is a good first time project clearly don't grasp what "first time" means.
Quote from: clickclack123Sounds like your board has a lot of problems! It is almost certainly because of shoddy soldering.Yeah, no kidding. The people I've spoken to who told me that this is a good first time project clearly don't grasp what "first time" means.
I found a loupe in my junk drawer and saw a bunch of tiny solder bridges on the I/O expander, which fixed the rows that seemed to be tied together.
The only problems remaining now (that I know of) are the Enter and right Command keys (SW1:13 and SW0:2). I'll rebind a key to Enter for now, but I'd really rather fix the problem than pretend it isn't there. I've tried soldering the diodes on without the pads, but the solder won't stay on the diode no matter what I do, it either gets sucked up onto the iron or beneath the diode itself, or migrates onto one of the nearby holes. I think they would work if I could connect them as you suggested, but the solder turns into a semi-sentient, gelatinous blob of angry mercury every time I try to attach it.
When I hear "flux," I think of microwaves, bogus time travel, a forgettable movie with Charlize Theron, and an exceptionally unpleasant gastrointestinal disorder, none of which sound like what you're referring to.
The iron should be fine, it's 120W 30V non-temperature controlled. Sounds close to what the assembly guide recommends.
I watched an ErgoDox assembly video, but that guy had access to some toys I'd never seen, including some sort of magic soldering wand that doesn't have to touch anything (I assume it blasts hot air or something).
Not sure what glass part you're talking about. I haven't been trying to solder on the acrylic plates, if that's what you mean.
I attached some images. This lens isn't exactly made for macro photography, so forgive the cruddy image quality. I can try and get some better shots if you need them.
The iron should be fine, it's 120W 30V non-temperature controlled. Sounds close to what the assembly guide recommends.I think you got the Watts and Volts mixed up. You mean 30W? The voltage should only match what is in your outlet: 120V in the US, 220V-240V in Europe.
I bought the iron in a "learn to solder" kit from someone on this website, who said it'd be fine for the ergodox. Not sure why he'd send one so much higher than necessary.
I'd like to get a better iron, but I'm not spending any more money on this thing until I know that it will work when I'm done. I've already dropped $400 on the ergodox kit plus the soldering kit.
Apart from the superfluous quantity, are these (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AUDOQMU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A28PCZ3GGXGBES) what I'm looking for? It's got the model number you mentioned, but I'm not sure what the other specifications mean.
The iron should be fine, it's 120W 30V non-temperature controlled. Sounds close to what the assembly guide recommends.I think you got the Watts and Volts mixed up. You mean 30W? The voltage should only match what is in your outlet: 120V in the US, 220V-240V in Europe.
I think that the wattage of the temperature-controlled soldering irons is not so important: it limits what maximum temperature it can provide.
I use a 15W soldering iron that is not temperature-controlled and it worked fine. It only needs a minute to get hot enough before I start using it. I have had problems with a 30W iron destroying the pads on a PCB when I have used it to desolder switches.
No-go for the USB part, then, but what about the pieces that look like a male-to-male 3.5mm audio jack? Any way we could get rid of that thing?
I've been wanting to go wireless with my EDs for months. Closest thing I found (which doesn't work, btw, so don't waste your time or money) is the Bluetooth adapter from Handheld Scientific. http://handheldsci.com/kb Again, don't bother, it doesn't output enough power.
Well, if we can't get nkro, maybe something like 5-6kro would be handy enough? I'm even less familiar than you, but I ask a lot of questions. ;-)
Well, if we can't get nkro, maybe something like 5-6kro would be handy enough? I'm even less familiar than you, but I ask a lot of questions. ;-)
I'd say that it'd be really easy to get 6kro working with the EZ-Key. That's what it's designed for.
Unfortunately I have to have nkro for stenography (chorded typing) using Plover.
Edit: Damn, I was just going to buy one, but it's out of stock. For reference, here is the info on how to send it keys by serial (http://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-bluefruit-ez-key-diy-bluetooth-hid-keyboard/sending-keys-via-serial) - there's a lot if info and even an Arduino test sketch there.
Anyone had a single row on their boards not working (SW4:7 through 4:13 on the left hand)? I suppose it is a faulty IO expander, since everything else is working absolutely fine.
Anyone had a single row on their boards not working (SW4:7 through 4:13 on the left hand)? I suppose it is a faulty IO expander, since everything else is working absolutely fine.
This is how the left hand looks like, I am now going to trace the lines a bit.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1kX89p0.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NabxyGi.jpg)
This is how the left hand looks like, I am now going to trace the lines a bit.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1kX89p0.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NabxyGi.jpg)
Picture of the underside is sort of out of focus when you zoom in but 4:7 is missing a diode; check 4:10 and see if that works.
Edit: I did a continuity test and row4 corresponds to 4th pin from top left if you are looking from the back ( i have circled it in red ). Reflow that pin and see if that helps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7NkcbF9.jpg)
I took this picture before all diodes have been soldered on, so don't wonder why some are missing in there ;)
I am afraid I have damaged the USB connector now from all the plugging in and out, my right hand is at ~3V now...
Can you do me a favor and have a quick look at the voltage between the IO expander the the left hand rows? If I remember correctly, I have seen a voltage as low as ~4V before the USB connector went ape****.
This is how the left hand looks like, I am now going to trace the lines a bit.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1kX89p0.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NabxyGi.jpg)
Picture of the underside is sort of out of focus when you zoom in but 4:7 is missing a diode; check 4:10 and see if that works.
Edit: I did a continuity test and row4 corresponds to 4th pin from top left if you are looking from the back ( i have circled it in red ). Reflow that pin and see if that helps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7NkcbF9.jpg)
Isn't it the 3rd pin from top left? I had the track highlighted in red on the image I posted a couple of posts back.
Completely resoldering the USB and IO expander seems to have fixed the problem all along! Happily typing on Dox #2 now :)
Reverting my assumption, the whole left hand's connection is quite flaky and has failed on me several times during this morning. The right hand side is still working without problems :/
ESD can cause strange EMI problems. The discharge doesn't
need to be to/from the keyboard for there to be problems.
One simple way to generate a nice wideband EMI source is
to use a coil/solenoid and energize it with a D-cell battery.
Holding one side of the connection steady, keep making
and breaking the other connection so that you generate sparks.
If you do this near your keyboard and it causes problems then
you have demonstrated an EMC problem, and one possible
reason for the keyboard to experience strange symptoms.
I've heard of products suffering resets and other problems from
simply moving your body on a cloth seat - I've seen this personally
as well. At least here in the frozen north, this time of year is when
these issues will show as the humidity is so low that ESD is much
more frequent and energetic.
Try it out! Post your results!
Another possible solution: Put a humidifier in your room and see
if the problem goes away.
Some usb cables have that kind of cylindrical filter? thing around them, would that help with anything?
I haven't had any problems with mine from an ESD standpoint. I've had other weird problems (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54288.0) though.
Do you have an aluminum case or something?
I'd be surprised if something fried in the teensy would only have the effect of causing it to not be able to be used without a hub. Could it be some kind of driver issue with you motherboard usb chipset? Or some kind of usb power issue? Is it a powered hub that you're using?
I'd suggest trying it on another pc with a different chipset without a hub.
The cylindrical filter is called a choke or ferrite and works by blocking frequency ranges, typically high frequency noise picked up from RF stuff and such, just be sure that your USB signal frequencies are not blocked by the choke. You pick them based on what you want to filter/not filter and this determines sizes, etc.
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.
Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?
I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.
The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.
Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?
I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.
The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.
Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.
Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?
I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.
The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.
Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.
Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.
Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?
I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.
The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.
Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.
Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?
The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)
The cylindrical filter is called a choke or ferrite and works by blocking frequency ranges, typically high frequency noise picked up from RF stuff and such, just be sure that your USB signal frequencies are not blocked by the choke. You pick them based on what you want to filter/not filter and this determines sizes, etc.
Uhm, that's not how ferrite cores work ;) They are not used to filter out immission into the cable, they are used to prevent the cable to work as an antenna for spurious HF emissions FROM the cable. And of course, they do not "block" signals inside of the cable.
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.
Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?
I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.
The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.
Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.
Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?
The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)
Ah! That's exactly what I needed to know. Much appreciated.
Do you have an aluminum case or something?
I'd be surprised if something fried in the teensy would only have the effect of causing it to not be able to be used without a hub. Could it be some kind of driver issue with you motherboard usb chipset? Or some kind of usb power issue? Is it a powered hub that you're using?
I'd suggest trying it on another pc with a different chipset without a hub.
I've been working on a revision with built in ESD protection, along with some other features. I've been stalled by some other work. Once that is done I will get back to it. I'll post the progress thus far, and if anybody wants they can give the track routing a try themselves.
I think you and I are saying the same thing or at least I hope so otherwise my 5 years of working with electronic control systems for plasma arcs/high frequency/high voltage systems was a big waste :)
Ferrites prevent a cable/conductor from "conducting" certain frequencies by absorbing or reflecting them regardless of the source, the term conducting is kinda odd for HT at this point since the HF signals are actually travelling on the surface of the conductor.The cylindrical filter is called a choke or ferrite and works by blocking frequency ranges, typically high frequency noise picked up from RF stuff and such, just be sure that your USB signal frequencies are not blocked by the choke. You pick them based on what you want to filter/not filter and this determines sizes, etc.
Uhm, that's not how ferrite cores work ;) They are not used to filter out immission into the cable, they are used to prevent the cable to work as an antenna for spurious HF emissions FROM the cable. And of course, they do not "block" signals inside of the cable.
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.
Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?
I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.
The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.
Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.
Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?
The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)
Ah! That's exactly what I needed to know. Much appreciated.
If you were just going to use a left hand by itself, wouldn't you need to mount the usb connector/teensy on the underside of the board? That would be hard to fit inside a case...
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.
Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?
I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.
The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.
Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.
Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?
The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)
Ah! That's exactly what I needed to know. Much appreciated.
If you were just going to use a left hand by itself, wouldn't you need to mount the usb connector/teensy on the underside of the board? That would be hard to fit inside a case...
...you'll want to have a trawl through this loooooong old thread. there's been discussion about doing a right hander previously. iirc you may need to modify the firmware due to things lining up differently when some stuff is mounted underneath.
I'll solder on the other side of the PCB. I think.
...you'll want to have a trawl through this loooooong old thread. there's been discussion about doing a right hander previously. iirc you may need to modify the firmware due to things lining up differently when some stuff is mounted underneath.
I'll solder on the other side of the PCB. I think.
No trawling! I'll just solder everything upside down (right polarity though) and pray it works. As for the firmware, I'd just slowly poke through the settings. I imagine it'll be upside down or something in the end.well, that's an option too ;) just as long as you know to expect to have fun and games in code with the firmware once it's all done. good luck!
The board is a joy to type in, as I had hoped. Using the TECK for the past 8 months has eliminated most of the adjustment phase most people go through (the grid layout, using only one thumb for space, etc.), but it's still going to take a lot of getting used to. Most notably:
1) It slides around. The split layout is genius, since you can set it wherever you want it limited only by the length of the cable (I may try to connect mine to the arms of a recliner so that I can work from the comfort of my imperial throne), but once you get it where you want it, it'd be nice to keep it there.
2) Vertical incline. I'd lay money this thing is supposed to be used slanted a little bit upward, and I don't know how to get it that way, assuming the reclining throne doesn't pan out. I've seen some models with fancy wooden wrist wrests, but I think those were custom-made or part of a limited run.
3) Wrist pain. This is probably just a matter of getting used to it, but my thumbs feel as if they're in very unnatural positions, having to stretch this far. Also, it's tricky reaching the modifier keys above the backspace, enter, space, and forward delete keys, and very difficult reaching the Home and Page Up keys. I have to move my entire hand to get to those ones.
Show Image(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/01/eha9epyg.jpg)
No trawling! I'll just solder everything upside down (right polarity though) and pray it works. As for the firmware, I'd just slowly poke through the settings. I imagine it'll be upside down or something in the end.well, that's an option too ;) just as long as you know to expect to have fun and games in code with the firmware once it's all done. good luck!
I am not sure whether there are formal ways to test ergodox using a multimeter, but I use the following method:
1. if you have everything ready but the switches, you can now attach your ergodox to the computer
2. use a keyboard test program, I use xev in linux
3. then use tweezers to short the holes for the switches, test each one of the switches, you will see which one is acting funny
my dox is complete and it is ****ing awesome. i really suck at typing with it though...
is there a prefered way to keep this bastard from moving around so much when i type with it? this guy slides around like crazy when i type. this message took me about 2 minutes to type and there were a **** ton of typos.
my dox is complete and it is ****ing awesome. i really suck at typing with it though...
is there a prefered way to keep this bastard from moving around so much when i type with it? this guy slides around like crazy when i type. this message took me about 2 minutes to type and there were a **** ton of typos.
Some people have put rubber feet on it. I have it raised with larger screws, but still have the problem. Used some rubber hollow feet I had from some equipment and put them on, it has reduced a lot the moving... but still far from solid.
What type of wrist rest did you add? are those the Kinesis wrist pads?
my dox is complete and it is ****ing awesome. i really suck at typing with it though...
is there a prefered way to keep this bastard from moving around so much when i type with it? this guy slides around like crazy when i type. this message took me about 2 minutes to type and there were a **** ton of typos.
Some people have put rubber feet on it. I have it raised with larger screws, but still have the problem. Used some rubber hollow feet I had from some equipment and put them on, it has reduced a lot the moving... but still far from solid.
What type of wrist rest did you add? are those the Kinesis wrist pads?
i got the pads here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00897D3OQ/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00897D3OQ/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
these things are awesome. they stick to my aluminum case really well but have no glue inside them. they are comfortable too.
well with what i am reading online about the dox sliding around so much i think i will modify some kensis accessory thing i have for tenting and hope that helps with the sliding issue.
what size screws come with the massdrop kit? what the hell is M3?
i got the pads here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00897D3OQ/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00897D3OQ/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
these things are awesome. they stick to my aluminum case really well but have no glue inside them. they are comfortable too.
well with what i am reading online about the dox sliding around so much i think i will modify some kensis accessory thing i have for tenting and hope that helps with the sliding issue.
what size screws come with the massdrop kit? what the hell is M3?
I am really tempted to buy one (when it will be available again), but I have no skills in electronics and soldering. Is the assembly affordable without particular skills?
yea it isnt hard but you need to be patient. putting one of these together takes some time.
as far as gear it can be expensive or not. it is up to you how good your iron will be. also you will need a small soldering tip so make sure your iron can support different tips.
i ran into a few issues when i was building mine but goddamn am i happy with my efforts. people are jelly in the office today.
people are jelly in the office today.
i am thinking about super gluing down the costar stabs on the thumb cluster. good or bad idea?The fumes from superglue makes acrylic plastic foggy. If you don't care about that, then go ahead.
I am really tempted to buy one (when it will be available again), but I have no skills in electronics and soldering. Is the assembly affordable without particular skills?
I am really tempted to buy one (when it will be available again), but I have no skills in electronics and soldering. Is the assembly affordable without particular skills?
i wasn't a fan of soldering or DIY before i got into this mkb hobby.
few months after getting my first mkb, i got myself a cheap but usable soldering station to remove some faulty switch on my keyboard.
then i planned to assemble a custom keyboard myself although my experience is only up to desoldering switches (and watching keyboard assembly video by whitefiredragon on youtube)
the pass few weeks, my new experience is making my own custom sleeved usb cable.
yesterday my ergodox kit arrived, the moment i got home after work, eat dinner, and then my table is filled with all the tools that i have prepared prior to assemble ergodox and sprit's custom keyboard.
i started at about 830pm. complete full assembly and troubleshooting at almost 3am. BUT i had a head start with stripping the mini-usb for teensy and stickers on my switch as i did those shortly after the massdrop GB ended in january. the miniusb stripping will take quite a lot of patience n time if you don't have the right tool (i did it with just a blunt wire cutter and a pair of scissors...SO HORRIBLE)
my ergodox's soldering is very messy...i want to sandpaper my bottom acrylic case just to cover up my embarrassing soldering, or at least put something underneath to cover up.
on a side note, my costar stabs seems to get stuck with the 2u keycaps and thus causing the whole stab to come off together...is this a problem with DSA profile only? without the stabs it's so wobbly...
honestly one of the best things about the ergodox besides its amazing ergonomics is that we have to build it. when you build something like this you own it more than any store bought product. we know the ends and outs of these bad boys. if something goes wrong i can fix it. that is really ****ing cool.
i have a lot of pride in my dox and learning to type on it is really fun.
honestly one of the best things about the ergodox besides its amazing ergonomics is that we have to build it. when you build something like this you own it more than any store bought product. we know the ends and outs of these bad boys. if something goes wrong i can fix it. that is really ****ing cool.
i have a lot of pride in my dox and learning to type on it is really fun.
Is there a schematic or something for the traces? I have one switch that does not seem to work and we have tried almost everything to get it working.
That one diode is reversed - That's my bet.
That one diode is reversed - That's my bet.
Thanks. I will give that a try. Do you think it's possible to have a bad diode in general?
I wonder if it might have something to do with the switch, because I had to open the switch to put in a new spring. Maybe I screwed something up with the internal contacts, but the other 75 switches are working fine, not to mention the hundreds of others switches that I have modified.
You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
I've designed an ErgoDox tent that you can 3d print yourself and posted all the files here:
https://github.com/adereth/ergodox-tent
Feedback welcome!
That one diode is reversed - That's my bet.
Thanks. I will give that a try. Do you think it's possible to have a bad diode in general?
I wonder if it might have something to do with the switch, because I had to open the switch to put in a new spring. Maybe I screwed something up with the internal contacts, but the other 75 switches are working fine, not to mention the hundreds of others switches that I have modified.
You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
Looks great!! I finished building my dox about 20 minutes ago, and a 3d printed tent was going to be my weekend job. Thanks for open sourcing :thumb:Sweet. Please let me know how it works out for you!
You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
i always connect the trrs cable before connecting the usb port. always. do that from now on and you will most likely not see this behavior.
You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
Is it possible you have a loose connection or a cold solder joint on your usb or controller connection? That is what I would check first on intermittent problems like this. I had a similar problem with a usb hub I was using. I took it apart and resoldered it all and that fixed my issues.
You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
i always connect the trrs cable before connecting the usb port. always. do that from now on and you will most likely not see this behavior.
Yes, I think the TRRS cable is not hot-pluggable, or at least not reliably so, as the plug shorts some circuits on the way in/out that would never be shorted in normal operation; always plug/unplug the TRRS jacks with the USB disconnected.
BTW, which MX switch type did you get? I got the tactile/non-clicky Clears and love them so far. The ErgoDox plate design does allow changing switch plungers without desoldering switches (http://youtu.be/HysRQnJiupQ). You could get a batch of some other-type MX switches, swap the plungers, then resell the surplus switches with your old plungers if you like the new ones better.
You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
Is it possible you have a loose connection or a cold solder joint on your usb or controller connection? That is what I would check first on intermittent problems like this. I had a similar problem with a usb hub I was using. I took it apart and resoldered it all and that fixed my issues.
Reflowed all connections first time this happened.You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
i always connect the trrs cable before connecting the usb port. always. do that from now on and you will most likely not see this behavior.
Yes, I think the TRRS cable is not hot-pluggable, or at least not reliably so, as the plug shorts some circuits on the way in/out that would never be shorted in normal operation; always plug/unplug the TRRS jacks with the USB disconnected.
BTW, which MX switch type did you get? I got the tactile/non-clicky Clears and love them so far. The ErgoDox plate design does allow changing switch plungers without desoldering switches (http://youtu.be/HysRQnJiupQ). You could get a batch of some other-type MX switches, swap the plungers, then resell the surplus switches with your old plungers if you like the new ones better.
Except for the fact that this happens while it's all plugged in and sitting. As in, it works before I go to sleep, I leave everything plugged in and alone, I wake up and issue has arose with me. So no, I think the order I plug the cables in isn't what's causing this.
I have blues. Blues are wonderful and magic and almost as good as topre.
You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
Is it possible you have a loose connection or a cold solder joint on your usb or controller connection? That is what I would check first on intermittent problems like this. I had a similar problem with a usb hub I was using. I took it apart and resoldered it all and that fixed my issues.
Reflowed all connections first time this happened.You know what's super irritating? Intermittent problems.
Sometimes my ergo works great, sometimes it don't. The scenario plays out like this:
I'll use ergodox most of a day, go to bed, wake up and ergodox won't respond to anything at all. Other keyboards in the same USB port will, using ergo in different port won't. A day or three later when I go to do diagnostics, I plug it in and everything works again for a couple days. Sometimes, I can plug in the right hand and it works, then the entire thing turns off when I plug left hand in.
I have a spare teensy here as well as two trrs plugs and the left hand I/O chip as well to try swapping things around, but I dunno if I'm going to keep it at this point as I prefer my topre switch feels.
i always connect the trrs cable before connecting the usb port. always. do that from now on and you will most likely not see this behavior.
Yes, I think the TRRS cable is not hot-pluggable, or at least not reliably so, as the plug shorts some circuits on the way in/out that would never be shorted in normal operation; always plug/unplug the TRRS jacks with the USB disconnected.
BTW, which MX switch type did you get? I got the tactile/non-clicky Clears and love them so far. The ErgoDox plate design does allow changing switch plungers without desoldering switches (http://youtu.be/HysRQnJiupQ). You could get a batch of some other-type MX switches, swap the plungers, then resell the surplus switches with your old plungers if you like the new ones better.
Except for the fact that this happens while it's all plugged in and sitting. As in, it works before I go to sleep, I leave everything plugged in and alone, I wake up and issue has arose with me. So no, I think the order I plug the cables in isn't what's causing this.
I have blues. Blues are wonderful and magic and almost as good as topre.
TJ on some other ergodox thread people were reporting the same issues as you. TP4Tissue had the same thing over time if my memory serves me right and he ACTUALLY OFFERED GOOD ADVICE. to eliminate this issue he bypassed the trrs connector port altogether and soldered the trrs cable directly to the pcb. he had to get some female to female connector to connect the two halves together after this but he said it worked.
i also remember many people saying that by far the biggest weakness in the ergodox design was the use of trrs.
maybe it is your trrs cable? i just had to replace a faulty cable in the data center at work. not that that has anything to do with what we are talking about other than anecdotal evidence that cables go bad sometimes. luckily you make cables all the time so try that before doing anything else drastic.
i am using stock clears on my ergodox. i bought a kit of 62g springs and lube to make ergoclears but frankly i dont see a need to. stock clears are not nearly as heavy as i was led to believe. these things are just plain nice. especially with SA caps. maybe i will mod them later (once i find a ****ing switch top opener tool).
The ergodox cutting out for no reason is most likely due to the trrs ports/cable. Personally I never had an issue with the trrs ports with either since I don't move the keyboard around much at all, thus less chance of catching the connector on anything and straining it.
I did have both stock cables from both of my kits die within the first two months of owning my ergodox. Again, never tugged at them, moved them or anything like that; they just conked out on me, on an ergodox that had pretty much been stationary the whole time. I'd go to sleep with it working and wake up and have it not work suddenly too. I stripped the insulation later to find one of the wires had broken inside (on both cables to boot), which leads me to conclude that the provided cables were just crappy ones. Made my own and never had an issue with my ergodox in the last 9 months or so.
If I did want to get rid of the trrs connectors, I'd probably hardwire 4 pin mini xlrs (male-to-female) to each of the halves instead. Less of a hassle compared to trying to get a different type of port to fit into the case.
I think most TRRS cables you can find are not very strong, some are better than others, but not much
I have a custom made cable which works fine, seldom causing problems
cool thanks.
would you recommend this fix for someone who travels to and from work with their ergodox in a backpack?
cool thanks.
would you recommend this fix for someone who travels to and from work with their ergodox in a backpack?
no not using the hook up wire i used, unless you are ok with its thickness and the fact the hands are permanently connected, but maybe if you direct wired in some other connector just to avoid using that TRRS connector that fits in that slot and causes all the problems. I guess just wait an see if you end up with problems, you may not but when your left hand suddenly stops working im guessing 75% of the time from previous posts here it ends up being that TRRS connector or a bad cable.
you guys hear any information about an update version of the dox's pcb? i would love to see full LED support (even if that means two usb connections for power) and an alternative to trrs.
also what do you guys think of plexon's cables?
you guys hear any information about an update version of the dox's pcb? i would love to see full LED support (even if that means two usb connections for power) and an alternative to trrs.
also what do you guys think of plexon's cables?
There was a project a while ago to modify the PCB to support LEDs -- but only on the full hand version, since I think they were using colorduinos, and I'm not sure what came of it. The thread should be somewhere around here though :)
Funny to see all the hate towards TRRS -- not funny you guys are having problems, just funny because I was one of the main proponents of that choice (sorry). Interestingly, mine haven't given me any problems at all, but then, I think I sourced my own connectors, and some of my own cords.
are you using something other than this? this is what massdrop uses and that is what i am using.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SJ-43514/CP-43514-ND/368146 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SJ-43514/CP-43514-ND/368146)
i prefer the full hand version myself. i am not really all into LEDs as a concept, but i want to modify my dox even more for the hell of it. it is fun. can the colorduino support more than 64 LEDs? i think the dox has 78 keys? i dont know i could count but i really dont feel like it right now.
are you using something other than this? this is what massdrop uses and that is what i am using.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SJ-43514/CP-43514-ND/368146 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SJ-43514/CP-43514-ND/368146)
i prefer the full hand version myself. i am not really all into LEDs as a concept, but i want to modify my dox even more for the hell of it. it is fun. can the colorduino support more than 64 LEDs? i think the dox has 78 keys? i dont know i could count but i really dont feel like it right now.
Nope, from my notes that's the same part I bought... Hmm. FWIW, my cables are from mycablemart.com (unless I happen to be using a massdrop cord right now, I really can't remember).
I've never used a colorduino, so I don't know. The ErgoDox only has 74 keys unless you split one or more of the thumb keys (so, the PCB has room for 78 keys, but most people aren't using the extra 4). Here's (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45078.msg939339#msg939339) a link to the backlit Kinesis board, from one of the guys I remember mentioning interesting in a backlit ErgoDox a while back. Still not sure if anyone got around to making one...
are you using something other than this? this is what massdrop uses and that is what i am using.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SJ-43514/CP-43514-ND/368146 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SJ-43514/CP-43514-ND/368146)
i prefer the full hand version myself. i am not really all into LEDs as a concept, but i want to modify my dox even more for the hell of it. it is fun. can the colorduino support more than 64 LEDs? i think the dox has 78 keys? i dont know i could count but i really dont feel like it right now.
Nope, from my notes that's the same part I bought... Hmm. FWIW, my cables are from mycablemart.com (unless I happen to be using a massdrop cord right now, I really can't remember).
I've never used a colorduino, so I don't know. The ErgoDox only has 74 keys unless you split one or more of the thumb keys (so, the PCB has room for 78 keys, but most people aren't using the extra 4). Here's (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45078.msg939339#msg939339) a link to the backlit Kinesis board, from one of the guys I remember mentioning interesting in a backlit ErgoDox a while back. Still not sure if anyone got around to making one...
ErgoDox have 76 keys and PCB have room for 80 keys.
It's not possible with the massdrop site, but should be possible with TMK https://github.com/cub-uanic/tmk_keyboard
I've read several pages of this thread and I'm clearly missing it somewhere so I apologize, but is there any way to still purchase an ErgoDox kit?
my next ergodox (which is inevitable at this point) will have an RJ-11 port instead of TRRS. I just have to figure out how to get it to fit in the case.
Hi there...
I'm soldering my Ergodox and I'm about to solder the Teensy on the right hand side PCB.
A friend of mine did a 3D printed case based on the ErgoDox.org case definition files.
My problem is that as soon as the keys will be soldered, I won't have access to the Teensy Pushbutton.
I know I can map it to a key but would anything go wrong, I still need to ensure I can access that button anyhow.
I may drill a small hole on the top of the case but would like to avoid it.
I managed to get a beautiful case, I would like to keep it holeless ;-)
There are some pins on small borders of the Teensy that are labeled RST, GND, VCC, ...
Any idea if anyone of those could be wired to another switch that I would made reachable from the bottom of the case ?
Thank you very much in advance.
Pierre
You can get them literally all the time from Czarek, over at Deskthority. He is shipping from the EU tho, and does not include switches, so you will have to source them for yourself.But would that be cheaper than waiting for the MD? It's also a minor thing, but I'm not too crazy about the black PCB. I'd love one in blue like on the drop.
You can get them literally all the time from Czarek, over at Deskthority. He is shipping from the EU tho, and does not include switches, so you will have to source them for yourself.But would that be cheaper than waiting for the MD? It's also a minor thing, but I'm not too crazy about the black PCB. I'd love one in blue like on the drop.
It looks like you want a button connecting RST and GND: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic.html :)Just for information, I glued a reset switch onto the pcb and connected it to the RST and GND pass through holes of the teensy.
Does anyone know the longest cord length possible between the right & left hands with reliable operation?
Does anyone know the longest cord length possible between the right & left hands with reliable operation?
Longest theoretical or longest practical cord length? Since you will operate the board with your hands, I would assume that a cord length above 1 - 1,5m would be very impractical.... I currently have 1,5m of automotive cable hardwired to one of my boards. The board has been since working more reliably than before, with the TRRS connectors & cable.
If the reason you'd like to put the Teensy on the left is to make it so the left side can be used alone, perhaps there's an easier solution :) . If one procured a spare Teensy, pair of 2.2kΩ resistors, and TRRS cable (or connector), one could essentially put the right hand side of the board, minus the key matrix and LEDs, into an Altoids tin (or similar). See the circuit diagram (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/master/src/keyboard/ergodox/circuit-diagram.svg) (download first, then view) for details, if you like. Only the pull-up resistors on PD0 and PD1 are necessary for the Teensy to function. The whole thing would probably cost ~$20.
whoops bought another one
I would like to use the right as well, but just have the pc-board connection on the left hand rather than the right, since my tower is on the left, and I would like to have it be useable as a standalone(like you mentioned).
I just don't know much about the programming of the teensy. Could I just mount it normally(teensy on right, IO on left) and solder the switches on the back side?
I posted a thread on the "making stuff together" section, so hopefully people can help!
Would you guys recommend the classic or full hand?
Would you guys recommend the classic or full hand?Both versions have people who swear by them... Do you like to rest your wrists? If so, you probably want the full hand. If not, you probably want the classic. I have the classic :)
About adjustable tenting... there are a number of solutions various people came up with somewhere in this thread. There was at least one person who used adjustable screws of some sort, with rubber feet, which is probably the cheapest solution. But I don't really remember them, and can't comment on how well they worked (sorry), because I didn't want mine tented.
Yea I like to rest my wrists, I was thinking if I get the classic version that I could switch between resting and floating. By resting, I could get Grifiti's 8 inch fat pads (x2 for each hand). You think that would work? I don't rly like a hard surface to rest on and eventually I might get some slim pads from Grifiti if I get the full hand. dunno now which one to get :(
Yea I like to rest my wrists, I was thinking if I get the classic version that I could switch between resting and floating. By resting, I could get Grifiti's 8 inch fat pads (x2 for each hand). You think that would work? I don't rly like a hard surface to rest on and eventually I might get some slim pads from Grifiti if I get the full hand. dunno now which one to get :(
Ya... Ergonomics are so hard to predict, sometimes even after a while of actually using something. I know a lot of people on here love to wrest their wrists, and there was some discussion a while back (especially after the first buy) about what people were doing about that. Unfortunately I'll have to leave the discussion to them because, if you'll forgive me, I hate resting my wrists, lol.
Just to throw in a slightly less obvious solution, it might also be possible to order a full hand bottom layer for each hand (from somewhere online, or from someone here), in addition to the classic case from massdrop (assuming that's how you're doing things) -- this way, if you substituted the full hand bottom layer on your otherwise classic case 'board, there wouldn't be much in your way when you wanted to float your wrists, and you'd still have a stable base on which to mount your separate wrests. Of course, that would be a bit of extra work and expense...
I am having trouble getting my LH to work. I dont know a lot about digital stuff, which may be part of the problem.
The RH works fine, everything appears to be soldered correctly (continuity checks out), I just flashed a new firmware and I'm testing with a brand new IO expander. The diodes also appear to be in the correct orientation.
Is there something I may be missing? I can provide pictures or whatever will help.
I am having trouble getting my LH to work. I dont know a lot about digital stuff, which may be part of the problem.
The RH works fine, everything appears to be soldered correctly (continuity checks out), I just flashed a new firmware and I'm testing with a brand new IO expander. The diodes also appear to be in the correct orientation.
Is there something I may be missing? I can provide pictures or whatever will help.
Hey dorkvader! If you've already checked continuity, and tried a new IO expander, I dunno... Have you checked voltages, with everything plugged in? Have you tried a new TRRS cable? Are keystrokes generated if you short two of the used (circuit diagram (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/master/src/keyboard/ergodox/circuit-diagram.svg)) GPIO pins on the MCP23018 directly?
I'll get something to read that SVG as well. for whatever reason my browser doesn't want to render it.
dumb question, does the ergodox plate allow you to mod the switch without desolder? From the pictures of the ergodox plate it looks like I can but just checking to be safe.
dumb question, does the ergodox plate allow you to mod the switch without desolder? From the pictures of the ergodox plate it looks like I can but just checking to be safe.
yes. i believe so. however you might want to mod your switches before you even get the dox.
I'll get something to read that SVG as well. for whatever reason my browser doesn't want to render it.
Sorry... didn't mention, since I posted the link not that far above: the image has to be downloaded before viewing. Github seems to have a thing against serving SVG files viewably.
Anybody have extra plates or PCB for sale? I don't like the acrylic case from massdrop and will probably be buying all of the parts separately.
I am using a 2-meter RJ11 cable now.
I have tried a much longer cable, at least 5 meters, which also worked.
I think your thumb cluster mod looks ergonomically great!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55043.msg1244366#msg1244366
Ideally it would be nice if they were adjustable as much as possible,
including rotation, just to be able to ergonomically accommodate
different individual changeable preferences.
I don't know if that's practical...
What you have looks very impressive!
(By the way, I think AcidFire's thumb clusters are non-adjustable,
but I might be wrong about that.)
Maybe someone (who knows more than me) will make some
"ErgoDox-with-plainbriny-thumbcluster-mod" PCBs
with optional break-away thumb clusters, & ribbon cable connections
to facilitate your "ErgoDox-with-plainbriny-thumbcluster-mod"...
65g maybe?
Just put together an ergodox for the first time. It took about six hours from start to finish. I always thought blue switches were too light so I ordered clear switches, but I think these are a bit too heavy. Which spring would be a happy medium if I were to mod these clears? I really like the way they feel, but they're just a tad heavy.
It was my first time soldering, but it was pretty fun. Took quite a while to figure how to get the solder to form up on the pins, I think I had an easier time with the SMDs. I might order some more kits with different switches just to have fun building another board. Now I need to spend some time making some sort of tenting solution out of wood. Idk if it's these DSA caps, or if it's just the flat typing, but it's a bit hard to reach the numbers, and letters like "G" or "J" with colemak layout. I don't really have much of a problem hitting the thumb keys (except the top corner) like a lot of people complain about, but maybe I just have huge hands.
...
some sort of tenting solution out of wood
...
Just put together an ergodox for the first time. It took about six hours from start to finish. I always thought blue switches were too light so I ordered clear switches, but I think these are a bit too heavy. Which spring would be a happy medium if I were to mod these clears? I really like the way they feel, but they're just a tad heavy.
It was my first time soldering, but it was pretty fun. Took quite a while to figure how to get the solder to form up on the pins, I think I had an easier time with the SMDs. I might order some more kits with different switches just to have fun building another board. Now I need to spend some time making some sort of tenting solution out of wood. Idk if it's these DSA caps, or if it's just the flat typing, but it's a bit hard to reach the numbers, and letters like "G" or "J" with colemak layout. I don't really have much of a problem hitting the thumb keys (except the top corner) like a lot of people complain about, but maybe I just have huge hands.
65g maybe?
...
some sort of tenting solution out of wood
...
Probably not quite what you were thinking of, but I couldn't resist linking to kerplop's build (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg865680#msg865680) :) . There are a few other people's tenting solutions near that one in the thread too, I think.
The choices are 55g, 62g, or 65g. Since you hated softer touches but you're afraid of getting too hard... Any of these three works, but remember to get Korean custom springs if you're going 55g and 62g because there is a risk of the key getting stuck if the spring isn't strong enough. Nonetheless, the feel is almost similar if you lubed them, so YMMV.
Where can I get these springs besides originative? They seem to be all out of stock.
It is about time that I showcased my "SchmergoDox", even though it does not have any case. It is quite modified which I think could be interesting to some.
(Attachment Link)
...
some sort of tenting solution out of wood
...
Probably not quite what you were thinking of, but I couldn't resist linking to kerplop's build (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg865680#msg865680) :) . There are a few other people's tenting solutions near that one in the thread too, I think.
Oh man, I don't think I have enough experience to do something like that. That is quite beautiful, though. I was thinking something along the lines of a plate that attaches to the bottom with velcro, or I can get longer screws and use that. Mine would be beyond simple, haha.
The choices are 55g, 62g, or 65g. Since you hated softer touches but you're afraid of getting too hard... Any of these three works, but remember to get Korean custom springs if you're going 55g and 62g because there is a risk of the key getting stuck if the spring isn't strong enough. Nonetheless, the feel is almost similar if you lubed them, so YMMV.
Where can I get these springs besides originative? They seem to be all out of stock.
After a few days of typing on clears, they've really grown on me. The force required is now a non-issue, and I find myself barely bottoming out anymore. Before I used to do it 100% of the time. I'm not entirely sure I can go back to clicky switches, either. It's incredibly quiet compared to my old Leopold board. I really want to try blacks, now.
I'd say taobao, but I have the privilege of an agent dedicated to MKBs, so YMMV.
After a few days of typing on clears, they've really grown on me. The force required is now a non-issue, and I find myself barely bottoming out anymore. Before I used to do it 100% of the time. I'm not entirely sure I can go back to clicky switches, either. It's incredibly quiet compared to my old Leopold board. I really want to try blacks, now.
It is about time that I showcased my "SchmergoDox", even though it does not have any case. It is quite modified which I think could be interesting to some.
(Attachment Link)
I'd say taobao, but I have the privilege of an agent dedicated to MKBs, so YMMV.
Getting a bit far afield from the Ergodox, but ... you want to run a GB ...? Spirit's springs-only GB was wildly popular and would probably generate some interest again.
Hi, here are a few questions that i couldn't found a straight answer (there are over a 100 pages of posting):
The configurator from massdrop doesn't let me put the " ñ " letter as a main key. ¿can this be done without using a key combination (ctrl+key, alt+key, etc)? (I want to use the keyboard with a Spanish layout)
Another thing: can you change de secondary symbol of a key? For instance, the configurator writes " , " as a main key and "^" as a secondary symbol (shift+key), but in a Spanish Layout it'll be " , " and " ; " (same thing happens with a lot of other keys)
I really like this keyboard, but i'm not willing to type on a US layout, i rather stick with my Microsoft Natural XD.
Thanks for the help and regards
Thanks for the answer, i'm glad to have found this site :thumb:
So it can be done, great. Basically, this has been the only reason i haven't bought a proper ergonomic keyboard (teck, kinesis, etc), so i keep typing on my microsoft natural. I already sign for the next massdrop ergodox (can't wait)... still a bit worried about the thumb cluster position, tough, lots of people says to be a bit far, especially for the smaller hands.
anyway, thanks again and regards!
i wonder if anyone stop using the ergodox becouse of the thumb cluster.Yes, I’ve heard of a bunch of people who dislike the ergodox thumb keys. See for instance http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58673
What the ergodox needs is to simply bring the thumb clusters closer to the other keys.+1
What's the problem here? I find the ErgoDox fits my hands perfectly.
http://goo.gl/zqppE6 (gif of hitting the thumb cluster)
Maybe this could be a quick fix to the thumb cluster problem?Two suggestions I posted more than a year ago:
Maybe this could be a quick fix to the thumb cluster problem?Two suggestions I posted more than a year ago:Show Image(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22780.0;attach=18428;image)
The key on the right is a cut-up space bar.
Eventually, I modified the PCBs to get an additional diagonal key.
Okay so pardon me if I'm covering old ground, but ... I'm at work, and frustrated by my windows PC not hearing my keyboard. Except I was playing around, and just figured out a workaround.
Logging in / unlocking the screen requires hitting the reset-sequence, 'Ctrl-Alt-Del' -- and it never works.
Then I found that, rather than plugging in my QFR long enough to log in, I could instead hit the somewhat awkward combination using just the right hand. BUT THERE'S A R_ALT DEFINED, doggonit! So, more playing around.
If I hold down the r-alt first, THEN use the left-hand keys, it works. But if I push Control, or Delete first ... the 'alt' addition never gets added.
Does TMK fix this ? Does anything? I can use the Lshift without difficulty - Shift, KeyOnRight, release, keep typing ... nothing strange there. Just this particular combination that I've seen so far.
Is it possible that with your software layout (non-US?), RAlt is being interpreted as AltGr?"US - Dvorak" doesn't have an AltGr, to my knowledge. Also, I've (albeit rarely for awkwardness reasons) logged in with the right alt of a standard keyboard on this PC -- and I've used the dvorak layout for longer than I've been at my current job (14 years) So I don't believe that's the culprit.
Those connectors look interesting, are they RJ45?Yes they are. The initial prototype relied on a mess of IDE cables but this is a lot more elegant if I do say so myself. Credits to my dad who supplied me with the interconnects.
I am also thinking about a single-handed, left-handed board (I got one spare PCB left). It seems possible to follow the right-hand placement, and just put the keys in the reverse side. This should be easier and no need to modify the firmware.
I don't suppose there will ever be a Ergodox with real Function keys?well, not really, cos by definition it would then not be an ergodox ;) but you might wanna look at acidfire's axios, that has F key options. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.1350
Started work on mine today. I'm missing two diodes for the switches. /grump. Off to radio shack tomorrow. Hope they have some.
so, here's the problem: do we have a CAD design for a plate with all 1x thumb keys?
is it possible to have BOTH the io expander and teensy on the other side? I guess i don't really care which hand the teensy is on.
if we do, i'm golden, but if we don't, I could go pcb mount, but how does the pcb fit into a litster case? It seems like having a plate is required.
I just visited Ergodox.org and was searching for the acrylic case files. If you click on the download link on the page there´s a 404. Is the dxf still available?
is it possible to have BOTH the io expander and teensy on the other side? I guess i don't really care which hand the teensy is on.
no...not the SAME hand. on the other sides of their respective boards so that the top of each pcb is blank except for solder joints and switches.
is it possible to have BOTH the io expander and teensy on the other side? I guess i don't really care which hand the teensy is on.
This is not possible. Those two need to be on different sides in order for the matrix to bridge between PCBs.
is it possible to have BOTH the io expander and teensy on the other side? I guess i don't really care which hand the teensy is on.
This is not possible. Those two need to be on different sides in order for the matrix to bridge between PCBs.
I think you misunderstood.
My interpretation is that tbc don't want to see the io expander and teensy, so he want to put these in the bottom of the PCB. And it is possible, you just need to reverse the placement of some components.
Of course its just my interpretation, tbc should be able to clarify this.
it IS easier moving the teensy to the LH right? so I just literally flip both hands to the other side, and swap them. THEN i solder the switches.
that way, the teensy pins are in the normal orientation.
if I keep the teensy on the right hand side, I need to solder the pins facing upwards. the end result of that is the button will be almost touching the ergodox pcb?
it IS easier moving the teensy to the LH right? so I just literally flip both hands to the other side, and swap them. THEN i solder the switches.
that way, the teensy pins are in the normal orientation.
That should be easier as far as soldering (especially the I/O expander). It would be more difficult to generate layouts though.if I keep the teensy on the right hand side, I need to solder the pins facing upwards. the end result of that is the button will be almost touching the ergodox pcb?
This way layouts would work as normal, but soldering would be more difficult.
Also, are you sure the Teensy will fit underneath the PCB inside the case you're using? Others seem to be implying it, but I can't recall if anyone's tested.
Technically, yeah, you're right. If you're planning on soldering on the bottom, it's easier on the left. I'm not that good with PCBs to know what to do next to get the TRSS to work (that and the broken IO expander), which is why I used 2 RJ45 cables.
Good luck getting the MD case to work though... I've tried it and it wouldn't fit, although in my horniness to try it I may have gone ahead and did some bad things.
Anyone know how to open the ergodox gerber PCB design file? I tried with the opensourced gerbv program and online viewer which neither work. Renaming the file to .gbr doesn't help.Try this one: http://www.numericalinnovations.com/pages/dfm-now-free-gerber-viewer
Guys, I've been having problems with my ergodox, sometimes it just "turns off". I need to unplug it and plug it back again. Do any of you is having this issue? I seriously have no clue why that happens. (I think I read something similar in a post months ago, but the search function of the board is quite limited)
Guys, I've been having problems with my ergodox, sometimes it just "turns off". I need to unplug it and plug it back again. Do any of you is having this issue? I seriously have no clue why that happens. (I think I read something similar in a post months ago, but the search function of the board is quite limited)
Might be due to the reset button being activated or the reset pin being shorted.
Guys, I've been having problems with my ergodox, sometimes it just "turns off". I need to unplug it and plug it back again. Do any of you is having this issue? I seriously have no clue why that happens. (I think I read something similar in a post months ago, but the search function of the board is quite limited)
Might be due to the reset button being activated or the reset pin being shorted.
Maybe that's it! I need to move the teensy key out of the way... probably to use the button only.
Thanks sakai4eva!
Try with better USB cable. I have a particular cable where it often occur, while the other cable does not. So it seems to be a factor.Guys, I've been having problems with my ergodox, sometimes it just "turns off". I need to unplug it and plug it back again. Do any of you is having this issue? I seriously have no clue why that happens. (I think I read something similar in a post months ago, but the search function of the board is quite limited)
Might be due to the reset button being activated or the reset pin being shorted.
Maybe that's it! I need to move the teensy key out of the way... probably to use the button only.
Thanks sakai4eva!
Well, It was not solved. Seems to be happening with OSX 10.9.4. Anybody has this problem?
If you're using the massdrop kit, check your solder joints between the teensy and the USB also. Otherwise, I have no idea what you can do already.Guys, I've been having problems with my ergodox, sometimes it just "turns off". I need to unplug it and plug it back again. Do any of you is having this issue? I seriously have no clue why that happens. (I think I read something similar in a post months ago, but the search function of the board is quite limited)
Might be due to the reset button being activated or the reset pin being shorted.
Maybe that's it! I need to move the teensy key out of the way... probably to use the button only.
Thanks sakai4eva!
Well, It was not solved. Seems to be happening with OSX 10.9.4. Anybody has this problem?
Guys, I've been having problems with my ergodox, sometimes it just "turns off". I need to unplug it and plug it back again. Do any of you is having this issue? I seriously have no clue why that happens. (I think I read something similar in a post months ago, but the search function of the board is quite limited)
Might be due to the reset button being activated or the reset pin being shorted.
Maybe that's it! I need to move the teensy key out of the way... probably to use the button only.
Thanks sakai4eva!
Well, It was not solved. Seems to be happening with OSX 10.9.4. Anybody has this problem?
If you're using the massdrop kit, check your solder joints between the teensy and the USB also. Otherwise, I have no idea what you can do already.
Try with better USB cable. I have a particular cable where it often occur, while the other cable does not. So it seems to be a factor.
Ever consider to replace the TRRS cable? Or try to improve the connections?
On my first ergodox, at first everything is ok, but after several months of use, bad TRRS cable start to kill it far too often.
The symptom is similar: ergodox will stop responding, and I have to un-plug/re-plug, but eventually this won't work.
Finally I ordered a custom cable, and it is significantly improved, nearly never happened again.
On my second ergodox, I use RJ11 instead of TRRS, and the third one use mini-usb cable.
RJ11 has been proved much much more stable than TRRS, I really love it.
The mini-usb cable seems nice and with a lower profile, but I haven't used it long enough to justify its superiority over TRRS.
Vinyl wrapped in brushed metal finish :thumb:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/j8dvIUq.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/I1r12pR.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5Ft5Ly2.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z92IW65.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HHSE3t0.jpg)
This is going to sound a bit ridiculous but make sure you have not accidentally entered another layer. Occasionally I accidentally switch to another layer and do not realize it and consequently think something is going wrong.
As a result I've now made an LED turn on when I'm not in my typing layer. Now when I think something goes wrong I just have to look down to see if an LED is on.
Ever consider to replace the TRRS cable? Or try to improve the connections?
On my first ergodox, at first everything is ok, but after several months of use, bad TRRS cable start to kill it far too often.
The symptom is similar: ergodox will stop responding, and I have to un-plug/re-plug, but eventually this won't work.
Finally I ordered a custom cable, and it is significantly improved, nearly never happened again.
On my second ergodox, I use RJ11 instead of TRRS, and the third one use mini-usb cable.
RJ11 has been proved much much more stable than TRRS, I really love it.
The mini-usb cable seems nice and with a lower profile, but I haven't used it long enough to justify its superiority over TRRS.
Do you have a picture of your keyboard?
I do not know why the TRRS was the choice (probably due to the profile?) but I can tell you that the way they connect is the same principle used on the audio jacks, and that's very solid (as tested in the audio and video industry). The cable, however, is another story.
Ever consider to replace the TRRS cable? Or try to improve the connections?
On my first ergodox, at first everything is ok, but after several months of use, bad TRRS cable start to kill it far too often.
The symptom is similar: ergodox will stop responding, and I have to un-plug/re-plug, but eventually this won't work.
Finally I ordered a custom cable, and it is significantly improved, nearly never happened again.
On my second ergodox, I use RJ11 instead of TRRS, and the third one use mini-usb cable.
RJ11 has been proved much much more stable than TRRS, I really love it.
The mini-usb cable seems nice and with a lower profile, but I haven't used it long enough to justify its superiority over TRRS.
Do you have a picture of your keyboard?
I do not know why the TRRS was the choice (probably due to the profile?) but I can tell you that the way they connect is the same principle used on the audio jacks, and that's very solid (as tested in the audio and video industry). The cable, however, is another story.
Which one? The one with RJ11 can be found in http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55043.0
The one with mini-usb can be found in page 114 of this thread
If you need more detailed pics, just let me know.
As for TRRS, I think the connector is solid and good, however, most cable we can find are just too thin and prone to break, or maybe introduce too much noise to the I2C lines.
I don't know about the cables from massdrop, but several cables (at least 3) I found all lead to non-responsiveness, more or less, after some time of use.
That's why I finally ordered a custom cable, and it worked very well.
Litster recommended me a cleaner (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UD0GFE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) that seems to have worked pretty well :-)
Litster recommended me a cleaner (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UD0GFE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) that seems to have worked pretty well :-)
Mmmm may have to give it a try... So it's possible to have the acrylic blemish and spot free???
Litster recommended me a cleaner (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UD0GFE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) that seems to have worked pretty well :-)
Mmmm may have to give it a try... So it's possible to have the acrylic blemish and spot free???
Well, I mean, you'll still have some dust unless you're in a clean room (sometimes I wish I had one of those! lol) -- and you might also get moisture spots with this stuff that dry as you might expect given the thin milky look of the liquid (I did anyway, thought it might have been preventable) -- and the layers probably aren't airtight, so some dust might sneak in there after the fact (I'm pretty sure some has snuck into mine). I briefly contemplated supergluing most of the layers together, to get around these issues, but decided that would be waaaay too much work to even think about, lol. IIRC (even though it's been a while) the cleaner did help, the acrylic even seemed not to attract dust quite so readily after being cleaned, and overall I'm happy with the results. Didn't bother to try anything else for comparison -- figured litster (who designed the case, after all) ought to know what he's talking about :-) .
@anotherjunkie: Note also that macros must be defined in source at this point (no matter who's firmware you're using, as far as I know).Chrisandreae's firmware has both on the fly Macro and Remap functionality (similar as Kinesis Advantage has).
@anotherjunkie: Note also that macros must be defined in source at this point (no matter who's firmware you're using, as far as I know).Chrisandreae's firmware has both on the fly Macro and Remap functionality (similar as Kinesis Advantage has).
I hadn't seen his firmware :) . I think his macro/remap functionality might require a separate EEPROM module right now though (the code and documentation seemed to indicate as much, but I could be wrong).You are right, it is easy to add though.
Hi guys. I have few questions.
1. What are you suggesting for a keycaps set? There are two blank options in MD groupbuy. DCA or DCS design. Any tips on what is better to go with? Or will any other standard keycaps set do the job? I prefer non-blank keycaps tho.
2. Are Cherry stabilizers supported for a wider keys like space or enter? I much prefer Cherry stabs but Costar could do too.
3. Not ErgoDox related but are there any other alive DIY projects with full keyboard kits that i can assembly myself like Ergodox?
Thanks!
This is going to sound a bit ridiculous but make sure you have not accidentally entered another layer. Occasionally I accidentally switch to another layer and do not realize it and consequently think something is going wrong.
As a result I've now made an LED turn on when I'm not in my typing layer. Now when I think something goes wrong I just have to look down to see if an LED is on.
Well, I have just temporary layer switchers.
Is there a way on the MD Ergodox configurator to turn the leds per layer? Or how are you doing it?
This is going to sound a bit ridiculous but make sure you have not accidentally entered another layer. Occasionally I accidentally switch to another layer and do not realize it and consequently think something is going wrong.
As a result I've now made an LED turn on when I'm not in my typing layer. Now when I think something goes wrong I just have to look down to see if an LED is on.
Well, I have just temporary layer switchers.
Is there a way on the MD Ergodox configurator to turn the leds per layer? Or how are you doing it?
I have a fork of some benblazak/ergodox-firmware (https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware) that I've modified. The commit that lights up one of the LEDs is here (https://github.com/jakemcc/ergodox-firmware/commit/383f16a3f091b4e2dd031d098007c4289cc1a261).
Downside to lighting up that LED is that I don't have a transparent keycap so it can be a bit hard to see. I may look into lighting up the teensy LED instead or try to find a keycap that would let the light through.
@yuiop
Just saw your ergodox and I´m stunned by the brushed look.
Is that the same aluminum plate (same finish) that comes with the massdrop buy, or did you finish it yourself.
If you did it yourself....how did you do that?
Greets
Flo
@yuiop
Just saw your ergodox and I´m stunned by the brushed look.
Is that the same aluminum plate (same finish) that comes with the massdrop buy, or did you finish it yourself.
If you did it yourself....how did you do that?
Greets
Flo
The brushed black you see here is the 3M vinyl wrap.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/5Ft5Ly2.jpg)
That´s a wrap??? ...it looks like real brushed metal in your pic.
Smart idea. I was already wondering how your got that even texture with sandpaper or something similar. :cool:
Was anyone experimenting with various switches on the ErgoDox boards?I use Clears with spring swapped on them, no lube used either: I use springs from MX browns on all the keys except for the thumb cluster where I use 50g and 55g limited springs purchased a long time ago from Originative Co, but you should get them elsewhere nowadays most likely. The only keys I find that need heavier springs sans lube (after they have been broken in) than the MX brown/red/blue springs are the keys I hit offcenter in the thumb cluster, and even then not for all of them.
I thinking about:
MX Clear as a base
MX Browns for keys accessed by pinky fingers
MX Green for ESC and Enter perhaps
MX Grey for Space, Backspace and del
I will be buying the switches from 7bit and i can get any of the switches for the same price. But the idea about ErgoClears is tempting. I can swap the springs with the springs from blues that i dont need anymore.Was anyone experimenting with various switches on the ErgoDox boards?I use Clears with spring swapped on them, no lube used either: I use springs from MX browns on all the keys except for the thumb cluster where I use 50g and 55g limited springs purchased a long time ago from Originative Co, but you should get them elsewhere nowadays most likely. The only keys I find that need heavier springs sans lube (after they have been broken in) than the MX brown/red/blue springs are the keys I hit offcenter in the thumb cluster, and even then not for all of them.
I thinking about:
MX Clear as a base
MX Browns for keys accessed by pinky fingers
MX Green for ESC and Enter perhaps
MX Grey for Space, Backspace and del
My pics might be misleading because I have clear acrylic top which makes it look more brilliant and shiny, i think. I'd say the sample pics on metrorestyling website is more accurate.
Hey Guys!
I am having an interesting issue with my newly finished Ergodox.
After installing the firmware I was unable to get my pc to recognize the device, but when I install something like the blink.hex on the device I can unplug it and plug it in and the computer recognizes it each time (makes the you plugged something in noise).
I am sure this isnt a firmware issue as ALL of you have working ergodox's, but I'm confused as to what the issue might be. If I had a bad teensy then why does it work with different programs installed on it.
I have a multimeter and I double checked all the diodes and they are all fine. I can't see any obvious shorts. What are some other things I can test with my multimeter. My electronic skills are quite rusty IDK what values I should be expecting when I poke around it is entirely arbitrary. I appreciate any insight you guys might have.
Thanks
Dunno if this has been mentioned already (apparently no thread-specific search tool I could find here?), but I finally found some TRRS cables with right-angle plugs at BOTH ends! The ones I got seem to work just fine so far.Also found some decent, reasonably-priced USB cables with choice of right-angle or left-angle USB Mini B plugs:
- 2 foot length (http://www.amazon.com/Valley-4-Pole-3-5mm-Right-Stereo/dp/B00IYWBHE4/);
- 3 foot length (http://www.amazon.com/Valley-4-Pole-3-5mm-Right-Stereo/dp/B00IYW8MGA/);
- 6 foot length (http://www.amazon.com/Valley-4-Pole-3-5mm-Right-Stereo/dp/B00IYW5CTK/).
- 3 foot right angle (http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-Mini-USB-Cable-USB2HABM3RA/dp/B004W8EIMW/);
- 6 foot right angle (http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Mini-USB-Cable-USB2HABM6RA/dp/B004NO0L4O/);
- 3 foot left angle (http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Mini-USB-Cable-USB2HABM3LA/dp/B004YD6LW0/);
- 6 foot left angle (http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-Mini-USB-Cable-USB2HABM6LA/dp/B004NNTV6O/).
I'm having a hard time finding the lister case design files (or similar ones) for laser cutting.
Aren’t caps lock / num lock / scroll lock sent to the keyboard by the computer? Maybe the computer thinks one of them is turned on. (You could test this theory by putting the appropriate key (numlock, etc.) in your key layout and see what happens when you press it.)
@anotherjunkie: Note also that macros must be defined in source at this point (no matter who's firmware you're using, as far as I know).Chrisandreae's firmware has both on the fly Macro and Remap functionality (similar as Kinesis Advantage has).
I hadn't seen his firmware :) . I think his macro/remap functionality might require a separate EEPROM module right now though (the code and documentation seemed to indicate as much, but I could be wrong).
You could try this: load the PCB's with everything except the switches and diodes, then flip the boards over and load the switches on the opposite side and the diodes on "top" (or use switches w/ diodes inside.) The left hand side now carries the Teensy, the right hand the I/O extender. If you mind the diodes direction the only change in the firmware should be a new layer definition.
Does anyone have an alternative to the MCP23018-E/SP-ND from DigiKey? They're out and I'm impatient and don't want to wait.They are available from a lot of other vendors as well. Just google for MCP23018. The "-E/SP-ND" part might not be part of the part number in some stores, so you would have to read the context to see if it is the correct package.
They are available from a lot of other vendors as well. Just google for MCP23018. The "-E/SP-ND" part might not be part of the part number in some stores, so you would have to read the context to see if it is the correct package.
BTW, DigiKey's shipping out of USA is quite expensive. I live in Europe and got mine from Mixelec in France.
There are a few more things to solder than the Teensy and I/O expander. For instance, a few jumpers are different depending on which side you are on. If you swap the sides, the layout will be mirrored.
It's been a long time from my USB connection mod, so I think it's fair now to report the usage.
(Attachment Link)
The mini USB connection between the two halves is sturdy, and I haven't encountered any issues so far (unlike thin, analog TRRS cables).
I use mini USB to micro USB connector with teensy, so that I can connect to PC with micro USB cables. Micro USB is not as sturdy as mini USB, but the overall result is acceptable. I think you can also use a mini USB to mini USB L adapter.
I didn't use a case, however, I think the litster case can be easily modified to accomodate this change.
So far, I have two ErgoDox with this change, and I am very satisfied with them.
(Attachment Link)
Wow PlainBriny, that is awesome. If you don't mind me asking, how did you print the black PCB? This is exactly the design I would like to use for my first ErgoDox prototype. I really like the minimalist design. Only hopefully I will be able to put an XBox controller on there as well. Attached is a sketch of how I'm thinking about setting it up.
(Attachment Link)
PlainBriny did you make any changes to the PCB design in order to mount the USB ports? I'm planning to print some PCBs, but I plan to add in a space for mounting an XBox/Playstation type controller.
Any tips will be appreciated.
I've created a mockup of the design I'm going to try to implement. Here it is:
(Attachment Link)
The little yellow buttons are planned to be small dome-switch buttons for controlling things like Volume and Brightness.
I ordered PCB from a local PCB workshop
Wow, your local workshop does some nice craftsmanship. I'm probably going to pick up a pair of PCBs from MechanicalKeyboards.com. They have this one available for $40:
would you mind making quotations with the quote tag instead of a red shadow?
I feel pretty stupid asking this, but I'm going to use through-hole diodes on my ErgoDox and I'm wondering which way up I solder them.
Did I do it right in this picture?
I feel pretty stupid asking this, but I'm going to use through-hole diodes on my ErgoDox and I'm wondering which way up I solder them.
Did I do it right in this picture?
This is correct.
The end with a black line should be put in the side with the square.
But, if you put the diode in the front, you may not be able to use a plate (depending on the thickness of the plate).
Other option is: open up up every switch and put the diodes inside the switch.
Other option is: open up up every switch and put the diodes inside the switch.
Yeah, I did this to my own ergodox, and this may improve switch stability when using PCB mount instead of plate mount.
Saw this today.. Kinda cool! http://axlroach.com/post/104107299783/keyboard-mod (http://axlroach.com/post/104107299783/keyboard-mod)He made a post over here earlier today as well.
At this point how would someone like me purchase an Ergodox? I have no idea where to start in buying one. I am comfortable soldering it together and I could easily do that,
but I have no idea where to buy the parts/kit? Any help?
We need 6 more buyers for the ErgoDOX keycap set with legends over on PMK in the next 5 hours, come on guys and get in on a rare labelled kit: http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/deep-space/
I was charged for the kit when the sale ended, maybe it went through??
I was charged for the kit when the sale ended, maybe it went through??
Argh! Crap! I wish I had seen this yesterday and could have hopped in on it... those are gorgeous caps.
Can I run my Ergodox without the LEDs installed?
Can I run my Ergodox without the LEDs installed?
Yes, you can.
No lube, nor stickers, for me. That said, I've done spring mods, and with the MassDrop case, you can open the switches without desoldering to get at their guts. I think that means you can sticker, and you can certainly lube.
Anybody knows how i can got the Windows-Key (Super_L ; 0xffeb, Keycode 133) to work with ergodox firmware?Do you mean the massdrop configurator? Been a little while since I looked at it but there's a bunch of buttons you could make the button send ... do you know the scancode of the fabled meta key?
Need it as metakey in linux.
How long did it take for you guys to get used to the Ergodox?
The Thumb buttons are a point of contention; I find them okay but the outer, upper two are awkward so you just remap things that you only need very rarely up there.Use tall keycaps for the outer/upper thumb cluster keys. It will help a bit.
How long did it take for you guys to get used to the Ergodox?Over a week but I was learning colmak at the same time.
Is there a reason why most DIY keyboards use a mini USB socket in stead of micro USB?
I just wanted to see what happened to the backlit version of the ergodox?
is it done? has anyone manufactured?
I got lazy and had some personal things to work through, the prototypes are sitting on my desk and I hope to get something done this spring.I just wanted to see what happened to the backlit version of the ergodox?
is it done? has anyone manufactured?
Hi All,
I wanted to build my keyboard for over three years now, I only wish I could find this site earlier.
I want to build a ergodox and downloaded the PCB from ergodox.org. The file I've got after upzip is ErgoDOX20130208.zipfile.
could anyone teach me what kind of program to open this file?
Thank you all very much
Okaydoke
This is just my understanding, but you can unzip the .zipfile to see all of the individual components of the design. From there I'd wager you need some type of Gerber file viewer. (Can probably just find one you like on google)
I can't say building your own like that would be very easy though. Have you considered buying a PCB from FalbaTeach, MechanicalKeyboards, or waiting for the next Massdrop?
Thanks Usarise for your reply and advise, I'm not going to make the PCB myself but to order a tiny amount. I've try few Gerber software online or install version and still having error while open the zip file.
Hope if anyone have open the file successfully could let me know which software they were using.
The problem is, the top location doesn't indicate the direction of the LED (square pad) like the switch location does. Can someone tell me which direction it's supposed to be?Just follow the traces on the board. The LEDs in top location need to point the same direction relative to the pins they connect to as LEDs next to the switches would.
I can't seem to find the answer to this anywhere
I want to mount the LEDs at the top location not the switch location.
The problem is, the top location doesn't indicate the direction of the LED (square pad) like the switch location does. Can someone tell me which direction it's supposed to be?
I can't seem to find the answer to this anywhere
I want to mount the LEDs at the top location not the switch location.
The problem is, the top location doesn't indicate the direction of the LED (square pad) like the switch location does. Can someone tell me which direction it's supposed to be?
The top locations aren't actually for the leds, they're for the resistors that go with the leds. The only places you can connect the leds is at the switches.well, that was the general intention with the design, but there are people who've swapped the led & resistor locations around quite successfully. it doesn't look as neat as you might hope as the holes aren't positioned ideally for the leds meaning that you have to bend the legs around a bit, and 2 of them are next to each other with the 3rd some way off, but you can do it.
Very true, but given the fact that this guy is doubting the way he should mount the leds, I doubt he's very tech-savvy when it comes to modding the pcb.The top locations aren't actually for the leds, they're for the resistors that go with the leds. The only places you can connect the leds is at the switches.well, that was the general intention with the design, but there are people who've swapped the led & resistor locations around quite successfully. it doesn't look as neat as you might hope as the holes aren't positioned ideally for the leds meaning that you have to bend the legs around a bit, and 2 of them are next to each other with the 3rd some way off, but you can do it.
Hi, I've just got my ErgoDox PCB (original design) and noticed only few keys could mount LED. I wonder are there any PCB out there could have the blacklit version?
I also want to know if there is a pcb with backlight support. I really want one but i want backlight too :PCurrently there is not.
Would it be difficult to build an ergodox wothout a pcb?As in, make a plate, and hand wire all the switches? No more or less difficult than any other keyboard layout. I’d maybe recommend just using a ribbon cable from one half to the other instead of the I/O expander, if everything is being hand wired.
Sorry, I don't. If I did have one what pins are you thinking I should check?
I'm using the white painted board but I can follow the leads by eye. Obviously I don't see anything wrong yet so I'm hoping for guidance on where they cross before I move on.
Ugh! I took the switches off and cleaned the board around both sides but I'm still getting a repeat between the two buttons only on one of them.
I may have to buy a multimeter but I'm still unclear on what leads could be causing this problem.
I'm planning to laser cut an acrylic case for the Ergodox. Curious what others have done, what tips you might have, etc. I found the case design here:
https://github.com/bishboria/ErgoDox/tree/master/ErgoDox%20Acrylic%20Case/ErgoDOX%20Acrylic%20Case%20-%20Designed%20by%20Litster
Have there been any revisions to this design? Are there any modifications people have made? Anyone create a space inside the Wrist Rest to put more electronics into?
How thick are the acrylic sheets used? 3mm?
Has anyone put together an acrylic case, but with a metal switch plate to allow the use of plate-mount switches?
Thanks for any and all help.
That's correct. For the Massdrop version, the switches on the Ergodox are PCB-mounted, and the plate is used mainly as a spacer so that the acrylic case is layered nicely. I can't speak for how other cases work, though.
What does the i/o expander do?
Does it just make it so i can use a jack cable inbetween?
Finished soldering key switches to partial build from Falbatech (czarek) yesterday.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0joYyoF.jpg)
Acryllic case and blue cherry mx switches from Mechanical Keyboards site, the caps of course sourced from signature plastics.
Everything works except for one damn key (top row, key 7, left hand SW5:7) which is probably from my soldering skills. Desoldered switch, removed, and replaced with another (a pain as I used PCB mount switches as they were only ones MK.com had) but still a no go so I just programmed the layout with no use of that key. Don't know if I'll ever be comfortable using it as a daily, but we'll see...
Turns out that's exactly what it was. The left side contact wasn't being made. I soldered a small piece of wire onto that spot and now I'm back in the game ;D. Thanks, dude :thumb:.
Your problem with that key is most likely the diode. You'll want to check that it's pointed the correct direction and that the contacts are clean.
I used a solder glue for mine so I had a lot of failures due to bad connection or short at first.
It looks mass drop is going to release their revised version of Ergodox "soon"
it comes with a display so we can know exactly what is locked and what layer we are using...
Can anyone point me towards a guide for directly soldering the TRRS cable to the PCBs? After several days of having to unplug/replug my ergodox in to get it working it appears to be unresponsive today. I'm going to reflow the solder joints to the USB and TRRS connectors tonight, but I would like to try a direct connection in case the connectors are dead...
I'm look at holes in the ErgoDox PCB and I had some questions. Is there a good explanation of the layout of the PCB somewhere?
In particular, I'm looking at the four holes at the bottom of each switch. I know the two at the bottom connected to surface mount pads are for the diodes (allowing either through-hole or surface mounting). My question is if the two holes right above those are also connected to the ones below, to allow you to place the diodes in the switch. It appears that is the case, from my untrained eye looking at the PCB, but I'm not sure which is why I'm asking. That's a pretty neat feature actually, since I can't use LEDs on the ErgoDox, but I can place the diodes in the switch and keep them out of the way. Is there any reason I wouldn't want to do that (other than the fact I need to open up each switch to insert the diodes)?
Perhaps the firmware is waiting for the left hand before continuing?
You could wire up the I/O expander and connector, etc, but not the
switch matrix on the left hand and that wouldn't take too long.
Check continuity across your TRRS cable andHow do I do this?
connectors. Check for power on the IOExpander
chip. Check your voltage stabilizer caps for voltage
and proper connections...
https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/how-to-use-a-multimeterCheck continuity across your TRRS cable andHow do I do this?
connectors. Check for power on the IOExpander
chip. Check your voltage stabilizer caps for voltage
and proper connections...
Hi guys, it's stupid question time:It's 3/16 in and 1/8 in (so 4.76mm and 3.18mm), but that still more than 20mm, and 20mm screws should indeed be too short. I remember people having troubles with screws and using longer ones.
Earlier in the thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.3000) it's mentioned that the case layers are 2 layers of 3 mm and 3 layers of 5 mm.
3x5+2*3 = 21mm. So how is that M3x20 screws, which have a length of 20mm can hold 21 mm of case together?
As I remember, it is reversible but the teensy will then be mounted on the bottom and the diodes will have to be reversed.
You have a whole lot of cold joints, which will cause you problems.
You need to ensure that:
1) You have enough flux in play
2) You have your iron hot enough, but not too hot
3) You get both the pin and the pad hot enough, quickly, so that:
4) solder flows down the pin, across the pad, through the plated through-hole...
5) and you can remove the heat so that you don't start burning stuff, lifting pads, etc.
You may help your situation by getting a flux pen and using it to add flux before
you try and add solder - add the flux, add the heat, then add the solder, or in most
of your cases, simply add the flux, then add the heat - you probably already have
sufficient solder. There shouldn't be any of the pad left visible without solder if
you're doing it right because the solder will flow right across the hot pad.
While you need to address that in order to get reliable operation, it shouldn't be
causing the short-circuit to GND on the USB 5v that you're experiencing. I am
still suspicious of your TRRS cable. Have you checked for shorts in that? Have
you checked with your multimeter for shorts from power to ground when it is
plugged in?
@yoobe ? The case is from where?
the matrix is actualy identical if you use the tmk firmware you should not need to change anything .. afaik the teensy flasher tool should still work .. there isnt much difference in it .. chipset is the same ..
as for charging the lipo : https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/powerboost-1000-charger-rechargeable-5v-lipo-usb-boost-1a-1000c
that should do
Very interesting, yoobe. I have plans to make my own Ergodox-like board using a Bluefruit LE to use with my phone. It will be a single board, a lot like a Truly Ergonomic but without the Fkeys at the top. Kind of like an Atreus but with a few more keys.
At the moment, I'm thinking that I will try to keep it electronically lot like the Ergodox, using the Bluefruit LE for the keys on the right hand side, and a MCP23018 for the keys on the left hand side. Hopefully I'll be able to modify the TMK firmware to make it work as some of the pins have to be changed, but I'll try to keep the layout as similar as I can so it's not too much work to modify.
Make sure to let everyone know how you're going with your project.
I just realized I never told you guys about this.
Before the ergodox I used this wireless logitech board and I never took the receiver off my desk.
This gives me NUM and CAP lock LEDs, very handy.
(Attachment Link)
It is about time that I showcased my "SchmergoDox", even though it does not have any case. It is quite modified which I think could be interesting to some.
(Attachment Link)
I had bought only bare PCBs in Massdrop's first run, because I had planned to build a simple and inexpensive board with PCB-mounted switches and reuse caps from old keyboards.
Unfortunately the 1u options for the outermost columns had misplaced pin holes, so I discovered that I needed to drill in the PCBs to fit the switches and use a plate to hold them.
I also found that the thumb keys were too far away... but I found that I could add an extra thumb key on each half, and that also required plates.
Because I think the column offsets on the ErgoDox are too small, I wanted to compensate by using both higher OEM profile and lower SP-profile to get somewhat of a dished effect. I had a rubber dome keyboard from BTC where the alphanumerics are SP-profile and Cherry MX-compatible but the larger keys are not. I ordered a matching set of lasered OEM-profile keys from WASD Keyboards about a year ago. The BTC caps are the same profile as Signature Plastics' keys and used for middle and ring finger columns, but unfortunately they sit higher than the OEM-profile WASD caps so the height difference is not as high as I had anticipated it would be... They were actually retr0brite'd a year or two ago but they seem to have yellowed again.
I based the layout somewhat on that of the µTron.
I made one universal plate design for both halves in QCad, using Litster's blueprints as starting point. I had them laser-cut of 1.5 mm acrylic at Ponoko because the laser-cutter at the local makerspace was broken. I had to wait a few months for my plates from Ponoko, and the first shipment was in the wrong scale even...
The good plates were then somewhat reinforced on the inside and painted. 1.5mm is not too thin for acrylic if there is a PCB and if you are careful during assembly. Afterwards I realized that I could have sandwiched two 1.5 mm plates, where the lower plate has larger holes for the switches and diodes.
All but the innermost 2u keys have Cherry plate-mount stabilisers. I had made an error with the stabilisers: I had placed them facing the same way as Costar stabilisers would - with the wire on the same side as the diode. So I had to remove the diodes that were beside the stabilised switches and place new diodes inside them.
I cut away the outermost thumb keys, because I wanted a smaller keyboard. I would have cut away some of the outer parts of the PCB also if they had not had mounting holes.
When drilling or cutting a PCB, which is made of fibreglass, it is important that you don't inhale any fibreglass dust - it can literally kill you. I used a vacuum cleaner on full close to the PCB all the time and wore a dust mask.
The TRRS sockets are not the recommended, but the FC68129 with its extra pins snipped off. Because I didn't solder the USB cable to the PCB, I needed to route a wire from the Teensy to the PCB to provide power for the left half: That is not necessary in later revisions of the PCB.
The cables are cheap Chinese cables I got on eBay.
The image below shows how I made the thumbkey mod. One key from the bottom row had to be sacrificed.
I insulated the ground plane in the new drill holes with tinted epoxy. I used one stabilising pin from each switch and snipped the other. :)
(Attachment Link)
I started on a case, designed in QCad and hand-cut from thin wood... but the wood I got wasn't flat enough and some of the corners were difficult. I could build it from styrene easy enough, but I don't quite like styrene.
I may build one later out of thicker lasercut plywood once I get access to the local makerspace's laser-cutter.
Idea to have all mapped in a ergodox box :
what do you think?
(Attachment Link)
I need to check the size of the board and the battery (here is the 2500 mAh http://www.adafruit.com/product/328)
bluefruit size: 51.0mm x 23.0mm x 4.5mm / 2.0" x 0.9" x 0.2"
battery Size: 2" x 2.55" x 0.30" (51mm x 65mm x 8mm)
Idea to have all mapped in a ergodox box :
what do you think?
(Attachment Link)
I need to check the size of the board and the battery (here is the 2500 mAh http://www.adafruit.com/product/328 (http://www.adafruit.com/product/328))
bluefruit size: 51.0mm x 23.0mm x 4.5mm / 2.0" x 0.9" x 0.2"
battery Size: 2" x 2.55" x 0.30" (51mm x 65mm x 8mm)
Did you get anywhere with replacing the teensy with the Bluefruit Micro LE?
I see you're no longer using the Bluefruit...
But couldn't the Bluefruit utilize the TMK firmware with only slight modifications?
I think that would be the quickest win.
yay lets reinvent the wheel .. what a great idea
TMK does support the blue fruit with the HHKB controller from hasu if you would have done your homework/research you would know that
there is no point to write a entire new firmware IF there is already a great one(which is widly used and successful) and can be made even better ..
but that would be the logical aproach.
Almost done with my Ergodox, just waiting on Carbon SA:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/l6PYYVp.jpg)
A few more pictures here. (http://imgur.com/a/J6Qzj)
Almost done with my Ergodox, just waiting on Carbon SA:
A few more pictures here. (http://imgur.com/a/J6Qzj)
there is no point to write a entire new firmware IF there is already a great one(which is widly used and successful) and can be made even better ..I disagree... You're always need options. TMK is great, and I'm not sure I'll be able to create something as good, but at the same time, I see things really differently, even to get the same results most of the time. So I'll definitively try my ideas, and if that I can't interest others, that's not a problem.
Is the ErgoDox EZ a standard ergodox? Does it use a standard teensy? Or is there custom hardware used for cheaper mass production?
Almost done with my Ergodox, just waiting on Carbon SA:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/l6PYYVp.jpg)
A few more pictures here. (http://imgur.com/a/J6Qzj)
That is fantastic..... I like it!
Almost done with my Ergodox, just waiting on Carbon SA:
A few more pictures here. (http://imgur.com/a/J6Qzj)
Yea, I like the orange!
Is the ErgoDox EZ a standard ergodox? Does it use a standard teensy? Or is there custom hardware used for cheaper mass production?As far as I know, it's standard Ergodox, pre-assembled, with an injection ABS case, PBT keycaps and a two-year warranty. It does use a Teensy 2 and come with a TMK fork preloaded.
Any idea where I could buy keypad enter 1x2 PBT MX keycaps? Preferably with a strong slope.
The thumb keys on my dox use 2x1 keys turned 90 degrees, and I'm already finding those painful because the lateral edge became a bottom edge that hurt my thumb...
Might wanna try G20 singles from PMK. The G20 have a strong slope and rounded edges.That's currently the best solution I've found, indeed... I'll go that way if I can't find cylindrical PBT. Thanks for the suggestion!
Ordered these feet from ebay:Show Image(http://imgur.com/QHmwagW.jpg)
That board is a real beaut! Where'd you get the colored case layers?
New creations I made for customers:
Purple Dox:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/L8zldhb.jpg)
Album: http://imgur.com/a/wucaU
New creations I made for customers:
Purple Dox:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/L8zldhb.jpg)
Album: http://imgur.com/a/wucaU
Maybe I'm colorblind, but that Purple Dox looks silver. :confused:
New creations I made for customers:
Purple Dox:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/L8zldhb.jpg)
Album: http://imgur.com/a/wucaU
Maybe I'm colorblind, but that Purple Dox looks silver. :confused:
Really? you see that as silver?
Hey guys, just quickly posting a question whilst I'm at work, in hopes to read replies when I get home.
Sorry if I go over somethings that have already been touched on or answered within this topic, but my browsing time is at present limited, so I'll get right to the point.
I'm looking at this split keyboard in wonderment, the left hand side of it would be perfect for me as a gaming pad, freeing up massive amounts of desk real estate!
Could I build one half of this? Would the software still work? It's to my understanding that this split keyboard is tethered each half to each other, if I was to build just the left side, could that connector port support just going straight to the PC?
Also roughly, how much would building one half cost?
Thank you in advance for any answers I may receive, and apologies if I have offended anyone or broken any rules.
(Very intimidating website).
:)
Unfortunately for your purposes, the controller which connects to the computer is on the right hand side. It's possible to install the controller on either hand's board, but the difficulty is that if you were to do this to have a left hand board with a controller, it wouldn't fit the cases that are easily available. Some ways around this would be a custom case, building some small box containing the controller that the left hand can plug into, or the simplest option, using a full Ergodox and putting the right hand somewhere out of the way.
There may be better solutions that have come up; this isn't something I've tried.
The left hand of the ErgoDox is "perfect"..
Could someone on here make this happen? If so how much? How much for the full build generally speaking?
Just join the infinite ergodox drop.
The infinite ergodox has two independent halves, you can connect either or both to the computer. The two halves can communicate over a USB 3.0 cable, which is really neat.
Just join the infinite ergodox drop.
The infinite ergodox has two independent halves, you can connect either or both to the computer. The two halves can communicate over a USB 3.0 cable, which is really neat.
Well, it seems that last drop just ended xD.
Just my luck, I requested another drop.
Did you see how much it was before it ended?
Sign up your email here. You'll get notify when a drop is comingJust join the infinite ergodox drop.
The infinite ergodox has two independent halves, you can connect either or both to the computer. The two halves can communicate over a USB 3.0 cable, which is really neat.
Well, it seems that last drop just ended xD.
Just my luck, I requested another drop.
Did you see how much it was before it ended?
LEDs on the left (MCP23018) side! :cool:
(Attachment Link)
Sorry for the blurry pic. Right now they only light up at init and go out after a second so not enough time to get a good snapshot.
I mounted them so they show out the inner side. The MCP23018 will only sink current so it would require hacking the PCB to get LEDs to work under the keys.
Here is the modification. Resistors for LEDa and LEDb are in the same place as the Teensy side (they go to pins 9/GPB6 and 10/GPB7). LEDc resistor is in the shrink wrap going to pin 27 (GPA7). The 3 red wires are +5V. Resistors are all 330. LEDs are LTL-433 (flat) series.
(Attachment Link)
They work a bit differently than the Teensy LEDs. State changes are not immediate. The LED settings are piggybacked on to the normal traffic going to the MCP23018.
I've attached the diffs against partial-rewrite branch. All they do is flash on during init. If I can figure out where the "current layer" is remembered I will probably use them to show the layer.
I've posted on github a way to change LCD logo on the ergodox (https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox) with something personnal. In my case Dansgaming "dangasm" emoji.Show Image(https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox/raw/master/danGasm.png)
This not perfect but how care..Show Image(https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox/raw/master/close_dangasm_ergodox.jpg)Show Image(https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox/raw/master/full_dangasm_ergodox.jpg)
Here the infos : https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox
I've posted on github a way to change LCD logo on the ergodox (https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox) with something personnal. In my case Dansgaming "dangasm" emoji.Show Image(https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox/raw/master/danGasm.png)
This not perfect but how care..Show Image(https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox/raw/master/close_dangasm_ergodox.jpg)Show Image(https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox/raw/master/full_dangasm_ergodox.jpg)
Here the infos : https://github.com/benoittgt/dangasm_ergodox
I always thought it'd be cool if people could program games or whatnot on the LCD screens. Seeing that guy program a version of whack-a-mole on his keyboard (Razer? Cooler Master?) made me think of the games etc. we can do with our keyboards on the hardware level.
<paraphrase> I rebuilt it 200% more awesome </paraphrase>
<paraphrase> I rebuilt it 200% more awesome </paraphrase>
Over from reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5fcbyf/introducing_ergodoxio_an_ergodoxorg_replacement/), thanks a lot for this! :D
A jumper is just a short piece of wire. You'd make those yourself from, for instance resistors's legs that you have snipped short.
I'm also having trouble sourcing a keycap set for the board since I'm doing it solo and not as a mass drop or group buy. Signature plastics quoted around $800 for a one off of blank white alphas and blank orange modifiers and that's an order of magnitude above what I was looking for.
White PBT blanks could be dyed bright colours with fabric dye, if you're careful. Not very fancy and you might not get the exact hue or full saturation, but it could be option.
BTW, it is difficult to dye keycaps black, because black consists of different inks that are absorbed differently.
White PBT blanks could be dyed bright colours with fabric dye, if you're careful. Not very fancy and you might not get the exact hue or full saturation, but it could be option.
BTW, it is difficult to dye keycaps black, because black consists of different inks that are absorbed differently.
It's a gift for my sibling who wants blank white alphas and blank orange modifiers. I don't know if there's a profile preference but I don't think there is, or the default popular ones (e.g. GMK) will work fine.
It's a gift for my sibling who wants blank white alphas and blank orange modifiers. I don't know if there's a profile preference but I don't think there is, or the default popular ones (e.g. GMK) will work fine.
Another thought. Go here:
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-standard-keysets/
Get an English Alpha Kit, WAN/WFJ, Blank for $50
Plus an Ergodox modifier kit, OAX/OAZ, Blank for $44