Author Topic: Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.  (Read 28939 times)

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Offline alaricljs

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #150 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:34:39 »
Quote from: Slux;444086
I proved why my reasons are right and why their reasons are wrong.

Did I miss something... I know this thread is long now, but I would have swore you didn't prove anything about your primary point.  A whole lot of proof about you personally tho... plenty of that.
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Offline Pretendo

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #151 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:38:21 »
Quote from: alaricljs;444089
Did I miss something... I know this thread is long now, but I would have swore you didn't prove anything about your primary point.  A whole lot of proof about you personally tho... plenty of that.

Don't take it to a personal level.  Then he feels vindicated.  Just watch his home-run responses to everything on this board.  Amusing.
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Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #152 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:41:39 »
Quote from: alaricljs;444089
Did I miss something... I know this thread is long now, but I would have swore you didn't prove anything about your primary point.  A whole lot of proof about you personally tho... plenty of that.
I suggest you re-read the thread because the only way you did not see me prove why I am right is if you glazed over the posts and missed all the reasons on why I am right and they are wrong.

Offline peda

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #153 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:47:54 »
Quote from: Slux;444079
I don't understand how you are a forum moderator, everything you have posted hasn't contributed at all.



Now to find a picture on the attempt to derail threads

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #154 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:48:11 »
Quote from: harrison;444093
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact
see definition 3, that's the only one that applies to your claim: a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true

do not have enough anecdotal experience or observation to make your claim fact.

again, what is not fact cannot be proven.  it is subjective.  you're basing your 'fact' and 'theory' on opinion.  that's the definition of subjective.  see here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/subjective

there's absolutely nothing to prove.  why don't you get that?


You are clearly missing the point and should re-read the entire thread to understand why it's a fact.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #155 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:52:37 »
Quote from: harrison;444107
stop telling us to re-read the thread, i know what you haven't posted.


but that isn't the point.  if you want to prove something, do it!  show me fact, show me evidence, use the scientific method (rip is drooling now).  it is, after all 'us' that you're trying to convince.  i've gone so far as to show you what you need to do... that's more than you'd get on the street, i would have shiv'd you by now.
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #156 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:54:20 »
Quote from: harrison;444109
thank you!  you get it!

finally!
It was directed towards you. Not smart enough to catch on I guess, I should have clarified that for someone of your intelligence.

Offline alaricljs

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #157 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:54:39 »
Seriously?  Do you really think that any one of us has managed to go through life and not use an RD ?  We know RDs... that's why we're here.
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Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #158 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:56:27 »
Quote from: alaricljs;444113
Seriously?  Do you really think that any one of us has managed to go through life and not use an RD ?  We know RDs... that's why we're here.

That's not the point, I've supplied all the evidence and reasoning behind why it is better and you continue to ignore and belittle my facts with childish bias opinions.

Offline arplod

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #159 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:59:26 »
Quote from: Slux;443341
That's just my opinion on the subject. You are free to be offended by it but that's just what I personally think. I'm entitled to my opinion.

EDIT: Also, could you people please make a reasonable argument instead of calling me a troll. If you disagree with someone, be specific and try to do in a intelligent manner instead of like a "troll".

There's a lot of cachet attached to being 'different' on this forum regardless of direct merit, as with any niche interest board. You have to bear that in mind and take that thinking mode into account when you're browsing here.

There's also a sizeable amount of purchase justification because a >$100 keyboard is considered leet. I bet if mechanicals become mainstream, these guys will migrate en masse to buckling spring.

For the record, browns are reds are about the only mechanicals I can stand for gaming-orientated all-purpose use but for me, they're not quite as effective as a decent short-travel rubber dome, for partly the feedback reasons you mentioned. For me, Topre action seems to recover slower than the better gaming RD's so they're not something I love to use either, although I would not be fatally handicapped by using any of these.

A lot of the talk here is like "You must bottom out RD's for them to contact, so they're worse". If you have any idea of how you're hitting keys normally be it a twitch or a regular press, you'd realise you're using about the force you need to make contact with a smooth-action RD (and it's not like you have to mash them down).
« Last Edit: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:03:44 by arplod »

Offline Pretendo

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #160 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:00:48 »
Quote from: Slux;444115
That's not the point, I've supplied all the evidence and reasoning behind why it is better and you continue to ignore and belittle my facts with childish bias opinions.

You're cute.
IBM Model F-122 6110347 -- September 13th, 1984
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Offline Clickey

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #161 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:00:57 »
Quote from: Slux;443356
I never understood the point of NRKO when you don't even utilize even close to that many presses. You use 2rko at most in a RTS and maybe 3-4 keys in a FPS.


Not true at all, I could easilly use all 5 keys at once in FPS tournaments (sometimes 6), not to mention the fact that your fingers can move too fast for the keyboard to recognize your keystrokes. I frequently had ghosting problems on every rubber dome until I started using better matrixed boards such as mechanicals. A lot of rubber domes actually require more force than some mechanical switch types. Audible feedback aids significantly in finger speed. I understand the argument you are trying to make here, but it is based on false premises.

A pro gamer with $100,000+ on the line would not gamble on whether or not their commands get ghosted. Only people that are so used to RD's that they can't play well without it still use them.

I think you are applying your experiences in gaming to everyone else, which makes no sense, especially since you only press 3 keys max at one time, meaning you are clearly not a high level player.
« Last Edit: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:07:05 by Clickey »
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Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #162 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:06:15 »
Quote from: Clickey;444122
Not true at all, I could easilly use all 5 keys at once in FPS tournaments (sometimes 6). I frequently had ghosting problems on every rubber dome until I started using better matrixed boards such as mechanicals. A lot of rubber domes actually require more force than some mechanical switch types. Audible feedback aids significantly in finger speed. I understand the argument you are trying to make here, but it is based on false premises.

A pro gamer with $100,000+ on the line would not gamble on whether or not their commands get ghosted. Only people that are so used to RD's that they can't play well without it still use them.
You are acting like rubberdomes aren't capable of 6rko... I'm currently using one right now that does 6rko and there are even ones that surpass that. It helps in finger speed for typing, not for gaming... I already said why the tactile feedback is useful for typing and not for gaming.

Offline peda

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #163 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:06:56 »


Tell me when it is time to bring pussies (aka kittens) in

Offline Clickey

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:10:45 »
They can be capable of 6kro, and a lot of the people raging in this thread are topre fans (which is a rubber dome). But I think you are missing the point, that reliability is important, and the force required argument makes no sense since there are many mechanical switches as light, sometimes lighter than rubber domes.
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Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:13:23 »
Quote from: Clickey;444128
They can be capable of 6kro, and a lot of the people raging in this thread are topre fans (which is a rubber dome). But I think you are missing the point, that reliability is important, and the force required argument makes no sense since there are many mechanical switches as light, sometimes lighter than rubber domes.
I'm not sure what you are saying, the rubberdomes activation pressure is heavy and then depressed with no pressure through. I'm saying this hybrid is the best middleground to ensure no fatigue and high accuracy.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:55:05 »
Quote from: ripster;444138
This thread needs force charts.  Like in the Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide stickied above, written by yours truly.
(Attachment Link) 30661[/ATTACH]
I'll need factual evidence instead of a drawn up graph that you made.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #167 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:58:38 »
Quote from: harrison;444152
perhaps we should ask you to provide the graphs, this is after all your theory/claim/opinion.  check the wiki, most of them are present already, and provided by manufacturers.

know your roll noob.
Wiki isn't a valid source for information, you would know that if you were intelligent.

Offline hashbaz

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #168 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 11:59:52 »
Quote from: Slux;444153
Wiki isn't a valid source for information, you would know that if you were intelligent.


Everyone, seriously.  There is no doubt any longer that this guy is trolling us.  Please stop posting.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #169 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:01:07 »
Quote from: ripster;444154
A wiki is only as good as the author.  Since the Geekhack ones are from the Number One Keyboard Expert On The Planet they are pretty good.

And Harrison, it's "role".
If you are the one who made the graph, then I don't believe it at all. Give me facts.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #170 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:03:02 »
Quote from: hashbaz;444155
Everyone, seriously.  There is no doubt any longer that this guy is trolling us.  Please stop posting.
Once again, this type of attitude is a form of ignorance. It's a fact that wiki isn't a valid source.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #171 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:06:05 »
Quote from: ripster;444160
Luckily then for Veritas I didn't make that graph.

I'm kind of a lazy wiki writer.  I steal my graphs from Asia and my content from Deskthority.net.
Provide a link to where you found the graph and prove how the person is a reliable source.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #172 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:07:42 »
Quote from: ripster;444167
Is this a college paper?  Anyway, I'm quite good about providing sources in my wikis.  UNLIKE Deskthority.net and OCN's Mechanical Keyboard Guide.
You are proving a fact, provide the fact.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #173 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:09:25 »
Quote from: ripster;444171
You first.

You presented the graph, if you have no reasonable way to back the graph, the graph will be shown as false and we will continue the discussion.

Offline peda

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #174 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:10:15 »
Quote from: Slux;444158
If you are the one who made the graph, then I don't believe it at all. Give me facts.


amazing... unbelievable how far somebody takes it before he admits that he is wrong/not prepared for this discussion here on geekhack.

even though i have my discrepant with ripster. his data has always been accurate.

but anyway, i think this kind of attitude is deliberate in this case.... aka trolling

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 30663[/ATTACH]

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #175 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:12:11 »
Quote from: peda;444176
amazing... unbelievable how far somebody takes it before he admits that he is wrong/not prepared for this discussion here on geekhack.

even though i have my discrepant with ripster. his data has always been accurate.

but anyway, i think this kind of attitude is deliberate in this case.... aka trolling

(Attachment Link) 30663[/ATTACH]
You believe things that aren't proven, therefore, you are unintelligent.

Offline peda

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #176 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:14:27 »
Quote from: Slux;444177
You believe things that aren't proven, therefore, you are unintelligent.

**** me mate, how more proven then force charts from manufacturers can you go?

tell me please, what is need to make you believe?

nobel-prize-winners disquisition on all keyboards/switches?

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #177 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:16:10 »
Quote from: harrison;444179
yeah, i mean... it's kind of hard to refute the fact that he's been proven wrong by nearly everyone in this thread with solid evidence, dictionaries, sound logic and even data collected using the scientific method.  if he's going to discredit all of that, and ask for sources and provide nothing but opinion for this theory... well... that speaks more volumes that i've ever posted.
Present the evidence, sound logic and scientific method that has been shown and sum it up for me and stop making broad unintelligent claims.

Offline peda

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #178 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:16:48 »
Quote from: Slux;444184
Present the evidence, sound logic and scientific method that has been shown and sum it up for me and stop making broad unintelligent claims.


so do you please!

EDIT: good picture, ripster :)

Offline Pretendo

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #179 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:17:07 »
Quote
Wiki isn't a valid source for information, you would know that if you were intelligent.

Oh, boy is it getting old now.  It's been stated that rubber domes are quite good for gaming when implemented correctly.  You really have nothing better to do than annoy a bunch of grown men, do you

Ripster, about the trolls here; I tried to be level headed earlier on.  I really did.  After the thread went over 150 posts and the OP was still hurling the insults of a prepubescent boy it just seemed like the time to have a laugh at him.
IBM Model F-122 6110347 -- September 13th, 1984
IBM Model M 1391404 -- April 14th, 1988
Rosewill RK-9000

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #180 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:18:04 »
Quote from: peda;444182
**** me mate, how more proven then force charts from manufacturers can you go?

tell me please, what is need to make you believe?

nobel-prize-winners disquisition on all keyboards/switches?


What manufacturers, how reliable is the manufacturers information, is it a valid source, is it a proven? These are things you have to ask people, please don't just believe everything you see.

Offline peda

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #181 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:18:53 »
Quote from: Slux;444189
What manufacturers, how reliable is the manufacturers information, is it a valid source, is it a proven? These are things you have to ask people, please don't just believe everything you see.

well, you didnt present any data at all....

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #182 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:19:42 »
Quote from: Pretendo;444188
Oh, boy is it getting old now.  It's been stated that rubber domes are quite good for gaming when implemented correctly.  You really have nothing better to do than annoy a bunch of grown men, do you

Ripster, about the trolls here; I tried to be level headed earlier on.  I really did.  After the thread went over 150 posts and the OP was still hurling the insults of a prepubescent boy it just seemed like the time to have a laugh at him.
Grown men that act like children with no sense for intelligent debate it appears.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #183 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:20:37 »
Quote from: peda;444190
well, you didnt present any data at all....

I did provide data, you just didn't read the whole thread, please re-read the thread before posting.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #184 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:21:24 »
Quote from: harrison;444186
Show Image

I LIKE LAMP

(i can't actually see the image because websense has blocked it, but the name is just too perfect.  please tell me if it's as awesome as i think it is)
Using childish insults because he thinks he is somehow disproving my fact.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #185 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:21:55 »
Quote from: ripster;444185
Actually that particular force graph isn't from a manufacturer.  But I trust it nonetheless.  I shave with Occam's Razor every morning.
Admitting it isn't a reliable source, fact.

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #186 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:26:00 »
Quote from: harrison;444201
garbage in, garbage out.  there is no 'data' other than what ripster and i have posted, and no source for anything you've posted, only opinions and observations based on unsubstantiated evidence.  how do we know you tried mechanical keyboards in a store?  how do we know you have a friend, or said friend has a filco?  i'll need to see your passports, birth certificates, and the serial numbers from the keyboards.
If that is necessary.

Offline Pretendo

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #187 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:26:25 »
Quote from: Slux;444194
Grown men that act like children with no sense for intelligent debate it appears.

Your words hurt.
IBM Model F-122 6110347 -- September 13th, 1984
IBM Model M 1391404 -- April 14th, 1988
Rosewill RK-9000

Offline arplod

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #188 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:26:32 »
As a matter of interest, has anyone (i.e. probably ripster) run tests on how much force they're exerting on the keyboard, and how fast, during normal typing and gaming actions?

Offline Slux

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #189 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:27:55 »
Quote from: Pretendo;444205
Your words hurt.


I'm not here to insult you, you are just behaving like a child and have nothing to contribute to the topic and I believe you said you weren't going to post because you have wasted to much time in the 1st post you made. I suggest you stick with that plan and stop making irrelevant posts.

Offline peda

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #190 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:35:31 »
anyway,

cats prefer mac-keyboards and therefore these boards are best

there you go, scientific proof at its best!

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 30665[/ATTACH]

now you can close this thread as we found the incontestable truth

Offline Urglifast

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #191 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:36:31 »
Quote
Rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards for gaming due to the high resistance at the beginning and no resistance through.


i wouldn't say it has high resistance at the begining and no resistance through.  it has resistance all the way through, the resistance changes a bit, but it's still there.  I typed and gamed rubber domes for many many years.  consistently Mechanical switches offer a uniform, crisp definite feel to the action of the keys on a keyboard.  do people who are gaming consistently bottom out their keys when they play? yeah, this is true, however i would say that the majority of mechanical switches allow you to do so more quickly and precisely.  however for the most part, you're making an unsubstantiated claim because key feel is ALWAYS a matter of personal opinion. i prefer gaming on mechanical switches, they feel better and i'm always less fatigued when i use them over rubber domes.  

 
Quote
This ensures no fatigue and high accuracy because of the way rubberdomes work.


on the contrary, i find that more resistance = more fatigue.  i type all day at work, i was using a rubber dome Logitech Keyboard and i was getting lots of pain in my wrists from typing on it.  I switched to a mechanical keyboard, no more pain from typing all day.  bottoming out key's all day on the rubber dome was causing impact stress on ligaments in my wrist.  

Quote
You will always bottom out if you are playing intense matches and have to double tap repeatedly so the smooth motion is only useful for touch typing.


I don't always bottom out when i'm playing intense matches.  when I'm playing FPS, my WASD will most likely be bottomed out, but aside from those keys i don't bottom any other ones out.  considering i game with cherry browns i only have to actuate my keys 2.5mm (someone correct me if i'm wrong) before the key registers, and i can feel the bump when the key activates.  i takes less pressure to do so.  i would say that's win, if you're going to be bottoming out, why not be able to do it faster anyways?  

Quote
Mechanicals are better built, have better durability, feel better, and are great for typist. Rubberdomes are better for gaming due to the point I said before. They just lack in the luxury part.


you made an argument with someone that you don't need more than 2kro.  i can type and make actions on my keyboard so fast that a 2kro board can't process it fast enough.  with NKRO, i know all my keys are registering.  it's also not just about how many keys you can press at once, sometimes due to the way keyboards work, pressing more than one key will ghost keypresses.  i don't know about you, but that's really irritating when i'm playing an intense FPS game and i hit one of those key combinations and my keyboard sends a keypress to my computer that i didn't intend or tell it to send.

Offline Zifle

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #192 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:36:34 »
Quote from: peda;444216
anyway,

cats prefer mac-keyboards and therefore these boards are best

there you go, scientific proof at its best!

(Attachment Link) 30665[/ATTACH]

now you can close this thread as we found the incontestable truth

I support this fact.
I like cats.

Offline slueth

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #193 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:38:37 »
Wow, I read through this whole thread, I am ashamed at myself, but also glad cus op is banned. he is right?

Offline Pretendo

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #194 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:39:01 »
Thank the Lord, slux got banned!

Actually, it's kind of a buzz kill.  Now I'm going to have to work and stuff.
IBM Model F-122 6110347 -- September 13th, 1984
IBM Model M 1391404 -- April 14th, 1988
Rosewill RK-9000

Offline Urglifast

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #195 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 12:52:14 »
Quote from: harrison;444232
i know!  this kept me entertained for well over 4 hours!

the argumentative side of me was rofling so hard.  he wanted to start an argument, however everything he said is purely coming from a personal preference standpoint which already an illogical argument.

Offline Urglifast

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #196 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 13:05:17 »
Quote from: harrison;444239
we need some kind of merit badge or something.  the "i fought a troll and won" achivement.

very similar with fighting the law and the law winning

Offline shrap

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #197 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 13:18:38 »
Wow, 17 pages, this is longer than that "my broken $30 Logitech keyboard is better than your keyboard" thread.

Offline shrap

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #198 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 13:22:54 »
I doubt it - in the other thread, the OP responded only a few times. In this one the OP's responses make up ~30% of the thread.

Offline Gin

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Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.
« Reply #199 on: Wed, 02 November 2011, 14:14:31 »
At least he brought peda and ripster together.