Author Topic: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse  (Read 17828 times)

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Offline Inf3rn0_44

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« on: Tue, 03 January 2012, 22:41:54 »
I was just thinking about buying another gaming mouse and I realized after loads of purchases that it won't make anything better. Yes I can get the best optical sensor with no accel/prediction and everything else, but it still won't be comfortable to use. So I was thinking on buying an ergo mouse and swapping the sensor for a gaming grade one. Easy and could even cost less than fifty dollars. I need to find a good shaped mouse. Something like the Evoluent but cheaper. What do you guys think?
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Offline TheProfosist

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 04 January 2012, 04:42:57 »
G700 ergonomic and has features!

Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #2 on: Thu, 05 January 2012, 13:48:54 »
I am talking about real ergonomics. Not just advertised ergo, like the G700. A natural hand position with a good sensor.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #3 on: Thu, 05 January 2012, 17:35:14 »
Quote from: Inf3rn0_44;483956
I am talking about real ergonomics. Not just advertised ergo, like the G700. A natural hand position with a good sensor.

not going to happen and a G700 fells pretty good in the hand there a reason I have 3.

Offline Henry Allen Venture

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 05 January 2012, 19:57:00 »
After quickly Google-ing the Evoluent you mentioned, I strongly doubt you're going to find many mice like that around.

To be honest, I don't see the need to go for a weird (for want of a better word) design like that, particularly not if its going to cost you heaps.
I can think of a few mice that are really comfortable to use out of the box. The DeathAdder is the most comfortable mouse I've ever used, hence the reason I use one daily at work.
I use a SteelSeries Xai at home and, although the natural hand position/sculpted shape is sacrificed on that mouse to enable ambidextrous use, the mouse is still comfortable with extended use.
The SteelSeries Ikari is sculpted for the right hand, and I've heard a lot of people say that mouse is very comfortable.

If you're really keen to have a hand position like the one on the Evoluent, you might even want to look into getting a trackball. Thats the closest thing to the hand position of the Evoluent that I can think of.
A trackball is probably not the best choice if you're going to be doing a lot of gaming, although some people seem to prefer one.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #5 on: Thu, 05 January 2012, 20:05:20 »
The Ikari Laser has a great shap I just wish that they would update the internals.

Offline Henry Allen Venture

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« Reply #6 on: Thu, 05 January 2012, 20:10:00 »
OP might want to check out the Ikari. If you're keen to be messing around with swapping sensors around, the Ikari is probably the best mouse body I can think of. They've been out for a while now, so you can probably find a cheap secondhand one too, if you're only going to pull it apart - not much sense in buying a new one, I guess.


Quote from: TheProfosist;484203
The Ikari Laser has a great shap I just wish that they would update the internals.

Slightly off topic, but I'm very interested to see whats in the new Kinzu v2 and Kana mice they're bringing out as well.
Current collection:
Filco Majestouch 104-Key, w/ MX Browns
IBM Model M 52G9700
Leopold FC200R, "white" w/ MX Clears
Ducky DK9008S \'Shining\', white backlit w/ MX Blues
Cherry G80-3494(LCYUS-2), w/ MX Reds for Portal Mod

Not mine, but I\'ve got access to:
Filco Majestouch Linear R Limited Edition, w/ MX Reds
Filco Majestouch 2 \'Ninja\' Tenkeyless, w/ MX Blues
Leopold FC500R, w/ MX Browns

Offline Oxblood

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 06 January 2012, 00:30:57 »
What do you have so far?

TBH I have been in the market for a new mouse for a while. I have been trying out anything and everything I can get my hand on. (Most of the logitech and Steelseries lines untill 2011)

I have found nothing better then my 5 year old Diamondback. I use a claw grip and have found that the longer paddle like keys on the mouse allow responsive left and right click.

Your best bet will be like I have done and take a look into all the computer stores you can and go and use the mice. Also use all your friends mice and get an Idea of what you like/dislike if you can post a couple of shapes you prefer and a couple of those that feel horrible we would be better able to help you.

I have to add that after 3 years of looking I went on ebay and got 2 back ups for my now out of production, entry level mouse. Because nothing else is as good in my hand.

Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #8 on: Sat, 07 January 2012, 15:44:46 »
The reason for this type of mouse is because of its totally natural feel. Its quite something to try if you have the chance. That and most mice have poor lifting grip.. This video shows a type of angled mouse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL2PX1ogyp4
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Offline Henry Allen Venture

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 19 January 2012, 22:35:56 »
Don't know if you saw this, OP, but you might want to check it out.
Current collection:
Filco Majestouch 104-Key, w/ MX Browns
IBM Model M 52G9700
Leopold FC200R, "white" w/ MX Clears
Ducky DK9008S \'Shining\', white backlit w/ MX Blues
Cherry G80-3494(LCYUS-2), w/ MX Reds for Portal Mod

Not mine, but I\'ve got access to:
Filco Majestouch Linear R Limited Edition, w/ MX Reds
Filco Majestouch 2 \'Ninja\' Tenkeyless, w/ MX Blues
Leopold FC500R, w/ MX Browns

Offline D299

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 29 January 2012, 18:23:48 »
Quote from: Inf3rn0_44;483956
I am talking about real ergonomics. Not just advertised ergo, like the G700. A natural hand position with a good sensor.
I actually recently purchased a G700.  The mouse feels good man,  but I don't put my thumb into the groove that it was designed for.  Instead it is way further down the mouse so I can get a better grip because of how I claw it when I game.  If you don't hold it the way it was intended, it isn't very ergonomic.  If you do, it's much more comfy.

Offline JustCallMeCrash

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« Reply #11 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 14:34:10 »
Have you considered the Handshoe mouse?
http://www.handshoemouse.com/
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Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #12 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 16:02:41 »
I saw the Penguin mouse its looks alright, however its around 80 dollars. Which is a lot for just a mod. The handshoe mouse has the better shape, however its very expensive as well. I find a cheaper mouse and I will just replace its sensor for the reliable WMO's sensor.

How is the Penguin's sensor?
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Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #13 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 16:08:37 »
That looks like a good RTS/FPS mouse, since it has a tall and narrow shape that makes a good grip. Does the infrared sensor have accel or prediction?

Quote from: Oxblood;484446
What do you have so far?

TBH I have been in the market for a new mouse for a while. I have been trying out anything and everything I can get my hand on. (Most of the logitech and Steelseries lines untill 2011)

I have found nothing better then my 5 year old Diamondback. I use a claw grip and have found that the longer paddle like keys on the mouse allow responsive left and right click.

Your best bet will be like I have done and take a look into all the computer stores you can and go and use the mice. Also use all your friends mice and get an Idea of what you like/dislike if you can post a couple of shapes you prefer and a couple of those that feel horrible we would be better able to help you.

I have to add that after 3 years of looking I went on ebay and got 2 back ups for my now out of production, entry level mouse. Because nothing else is as good in my hand.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 February 2012, 16:25:38 by Inf3rn0_44 »
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Offline Vyr1s

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« Reply #14 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 16:16:32 »
I personally use a RAT9, and find it to be super comfy.

Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #15 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 16:22:08 »
Yeah, I have seen the Ikari and I almost bought one. Its got a similar shape to the cm storm. However for an ergo mouse I want it to be angled grip since its much more natural to hold. The Kinzu v2 Pro looks very very appealing however I heard mixed reviews.

Quote from: Henry Allen Venture;484209
OP might want to check out the Ikari. If you're keen to be messing around with swapping sensors around, the Ikari is probably the best mouse body I can think of. They've been out for a while now, so you can probably find a cheap secondhand one too, if you're only going to pull it apart - not much sense in buying a new one, I guess.




Slightly off topic, but I'm very interested to see whats in the new Kinzu v2 and Kana mice they're bringing out as well.
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Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #16 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 16:24:55 »
Quote from: Vyr1s;508559
I personally use a RAT9, and find it to be super comfy.

RAT9 seems like its a really heavy mouse, it has a laser sensor and has a palm press issue. By that I mean when you push your palm on it and it tips back. Very adjustable though.
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Offline Vyr1s

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« Reply #17 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 08:26:02 »
The chassis is pretty solid and heavier than expected, but it does have a weight system to lighten it up.

Offline Shogunner

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 11:26:24 »
The G9x is super comfy if you're right handed in my opinion. If it's not for gaming though, then there are probably better options but I can't speak for those.

Offline boli

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 05:23:52 »
Quote from: JustCallMeCrash;508449
Have you considered the Handshoe mouse?
http://www.handshoemouse.com/

I actually have one of these at work, though I'm no longer using it.

I can recommend it if you have mouse related health issues (depends on the issue, but it's worth considering at least); I cannot recommend it for gaming. Reason is that with the handshoemouse you do a lot of things with movements of your whole arm, rather than movement of just the fingers or hand (with bending at the wrist). This requires a bit of getting used to, and in the few weeks/months I used mine I was never as quick as I am with conventional mice - not an issue for working, but for games I feel it wouldn't work well. Take this with a grain of salt because I haven't actually tried gaming with it.
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Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #20 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 09:12:59 »
@boli yeah I have realized that the handshoe mouse will not allow the majority of the wrist/finger movement. I just really like the angled hand position.
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Offline Disposable Hero

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« Reply #21 on: Sun, 12 February 2012, 02:07:27 »
yeah I have a R.A.T. 5 and absolutley love it..especially the little pinkey support I bought separately..... so none of your fingers ever touch the mouse pad...fits like a glove...

Offline 59abbot

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Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 18:29:43 »
Quote from: Vyr1s;508559
I personally use a RAT9, and find it to be super comfy.


I'm using a RAT5 gaming mice.  It is good and I like the Madcatz products.

Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #23 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 13:48:31 »
So I was thinking about using the body of a Microsoft Natural Laser 6000 mouse with the sensor from a wheel mouse optical.

I am not sure on the build quality of that mouse, and if the internals of a WMO can fit in there..

From what I know about it, in the pictures it appears very comfortable.

I have held it in the store, but it was mounted and I couldn't move it around.

Will anyone with it give me an overview of its worth modding?

Also the feet look pretty poor but I would just redo the bottom as well.
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Offline noisyturtle

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« Reply #24 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 17:35:05 »
I would highly recommend the Mionix Naos 5000, by far the most comfortable gaming mouse I've ever used.

Offline nmd

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« Reply #25 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 21:00:47 »
I really enjoyed the Mionix Naos 3200(same shape as 5000) but hands down the new winner is CM Storm Spawn... it's like the Naos but a bit smaller and the rubberized texture on the shell is nicer - as hard as that is to imagine.

Offline Inf3rn0_44

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« Reply #26 on: Sat, 24 March 2012, 12:06:42 »
Quote from: nmd;555103
I really enjoyed the Mionix Naos 3200(same shape as 5000) but hands down the new winner is CM Storm Spawn... it's like the Naos but a bit smaller and the rubberized texture on the shell is nicer - as hard as that is to imagine.


Thanks, I know the spawn is really comfortable. I even have one :D though this is about slanted gaming mice. Not horizontal like most mice and not vertical, but in between. Something with a lean like this \  with the hand mostly resting on the table.

Take a look at the
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 45519[/ATTACH]

and the DXT mouse

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 45520[/ATTACH]
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Offline chel-

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« Reply #27 on: Mon, 26 March 2012, 17:16:56 »
I havent read the entire thread so it may have been brought up already but whats wrong with the g400's ergonomics? Also its the best sensor out there atm.

Offline conandy

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 01 November 2012, 23:24:45 »
I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but thought I'd contribute.  I'm brand new to this site. 

I have a lot of hand/forearm pain issues, and have tried a lot of ergonomic mice.  None of them are great for gaming, but...

First of all, most of those replying on this thread really didn't understand the nature of your question, as they kept suggesting "standard" mice and not truly "ergonomic" mice.  Some mice are more ergonomic than others, but unless it truly allows your hand to rest at a 20 to 45 degree angle, they are not truly ergonomic. 

The biggest drawback to most ergo mice for gaming is that in gaming you need to be able to easily pick the mouse up and re-position it.  Very few ergo mice (especially those designed for a "palm" grip by resting your hand on the mouse and relaxing it, and moving with your arm instead of fingers) allow for this.

The second biggest drawback is often poor quality components.  The makers of gaming mice seem to go for the really high quality innards, but fail in ergonomics.  The most ergonomic mice are apparently made by "non-gamers" and folks who are way more concerned with ergonomics than quality of components. 

The third drawback is the need to quickly and accurately move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse.  Ergo mice often make this difficult.  For office productivity, the need for slightly more careful hand positioning is not a problem.  In the midst of a game, though, it can be life or death.

So, based on my personal experiences and trials (forgive me, most of these mouse trials were 2 or 3 years ago):

1. Evoluent vertical mouse (http://www.evoluent.com/vm4rw.htm): very well made mouse, high quality parts, smooth operation, highest quality sensor in any "ergonomic" mouse on the market.  Drawbacks: for gaming, hitting the buttons can/will move the mouse, so it sucks for aiming and gaming.  Even hard in everyday "office" tasks when you click and the cursor moves from where you were aiming.  The buttons can work with a very light touch, though, so if you get used to tapping very lightly, it can work OK.  Also, it is so tall, that moving hand from keyboard to the mouse can cause you to catch your hand on the mouse, and knock it across the room.  I was playing WoW while trying it out, and literally knocked the mouse across the room when switching from chat to mousing in a hurry.  For my hands, I had a little trouble adjusting to the completely vertical grip, but a lot of people love it.  There are more options now (including a small version), and I think it has evolved a bit now than when I tried it a few years ago. 

2.  Wowpen Joy mouse (http://www.amazon.com/Vertical-Ergonomic-Optical-Mouse-Ergoguys/dp/B001FWKA7A) : probably the most comfortable hand position I have experienced in any ergo mouse.  Truly comfortable design, but this mouse falls short in so many ways, it is unfortunate.  First, it is so short that even folks like me with small hands find their fingers hanging over edges of the buttons.   If you curl your fingers, and click with finger tips, it's fine.  But ergo folks say you should be resting your fingers flat, and clicking with the lowest part of your finger (closest to the palm).  Second, it feels cheap, and the buttons feel clunky and sticky.  Third, the sensor is pathetic (800 dpi) compared to the 2500 dpi sensor in the Evoluent (don't even try comparing to true gaming mice).  Folks used to higher end mice will hate it. If you are going to try modding an 'ergo' mouse with higher end sensor, etc., this would be a good starting mouse "body".  Use some sugru to extend the buttons, put in a gaming grade sensor, and off you go.  I ended up giving mine to a coworker with very small hands, and she has used it exclusively for 3 years now, I think.

3. Ortho mouse (http://www.amazon.com/Goldtouch-KOV-ORTHO-Ortho-Mouse/dp/B001QD8S86): this one is very comfortable and lends itself to a full "palm" resting grip.  I found, however, that the fact that the buttons are curved down so far cause me to click "against" my palm, often moving the mouse backward with the clicks.  The customizeable mouse palm rests and such make if adjustable for a number of hand sizes and whether or not you want to rest your wrist on the desk surface or not.  This mouse has a lot of potential, is very comfortable, and I used it for a very long time for office tasks. Also suffers from an 800 dpi sensor.   Might be another candidate for a starting "body" to add better innards to.

4. Microsoft ergo mouse: was horrible.  I bought it and gave it to a coworker after only a couple days trying.  I am not a microsoft hardware fan anyway, but they completely missed the class on ergonomics 101 with this baby (at least for me). 

5. A new one I have seen online but not tried is this one (http://www.ergonomics.co.uk/grip-mouse-right-hand-large.html): can't find specs online, though, so afraid it's got cheap innards.  It looks conducive to gripping and lifting for re-positioning, though. 

I currently use a Logitech G700, slightly modified with Sugru (https://sugru.com/) to make it easier to grip. See my pics.  Notice I added a ridge on the right side to allow lifting the mouse (with ring finger) without having to grip it so hard (this is a heavy mouse, btw).  On the thumb side I sacrificed the lower right (closest to the thumb) button to anchor more sugru to for a thumb side lift handle.  In reality, the button is still fully functional, but I disable it. I added the soft pads to both sides as well, and I have no idea where the peel and stick rubber pad came from (I just had it lying around). 

You can tell by my grip position that I try to maintain an angled "ergo" hand position, in spite of the fact the mouse really isn't designed for it.  I like this mouse enough that I just live with it. 

That is my 2 cents worth.  I'd love to hear what the person who started this thread has ended up with.


Offline conandy

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 01 November 2012, 23:27:19 »
other photo I tried to upload in previous post..

Offline hamza_tm

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 02 November 2012, 13:53:30 »
Good job there, mouse looks alright!

Your thumb looks uncomfortably bent downwards though

Offline Inf3rn0_44

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 02 November 2012, 15:14:00 »
I have found the best shape for a horizontal mouse. It is this mouse.

It has the sensor from the WMO in it. As the previous sensor was total junk.
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Offline conandy

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 16:53:37 »
Good job there, mouse looks alright!

Your thumb looks uncomfortably bent downwards though

Thanks.  I had ski pole accident many years ago that essentially tore the tendons between my first finger and thumbs, plus I've always been very flexible in that joint anyway.  I don't have a lot of grip strength with my thumbs, so the extra splay actually allows my hand to "grasp" without using much grip force.    Looks awkward, but for me, it isn't really a stretch like it looks.  Hand position shown is the extreme position it ever gets to.  Often my hand position ends up less angled.  An actual ergonomic mouse would give me better hand position, though. 

As noted, this was a compromise between "quality mouse" and "ergonomic mouse". 

Also note I love having the extra buttons on the mouse.  I use a couple of the index finger buttons for "volume up" and "volume down".  Most "ergonomic" mice don't have all the extra macro buttons, which is a shame, since more macro buttons would mean less swapping hands from mouse to keyboard, in general.


Offline treigle

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 15 December 2012, 14:31:20 »
Thanks conandy for all the info on ergonomic mice! Could you comment specifically on the repositionability of the Ortho Mouse (i.e. gaming)? I have a [too small] Contour Mouse which you can sort of lift with the palm, but which certainly doesn't lend itself to being picked up normally... 
Kinesis Advantage, Truly Ergonomic (ANSI), Filco 87

Offline conandy

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 23:48:43 »
Thanks conandy for all the info on ergonomic mice! Could you comment specifically on the repositionability of the Ortho Mouse (i.e. gaming)? I have a [too small] Contour Mouse which you can sort of lift with the palm, but which certainly doesn't lend itself to being picked up normally...

Triegle, Re: Ortho Mouse: out of the box, you will get almost “grippability” on this mouse.  These two pics show that the right side of the mouse where your ring and pinky fingers lie is very smooth plastic.  No friction = no grip = no repositioning for gaming.

10490-0

Having trouble posting...if I can get this to post (with pics), more to follow....

Offline conandy

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 23:54:44 »
Ortho mouse, cont.

Although I never fully modded it, you can see in these next two pics where I was trying out creating a ridge from “stickytack” to simulate a molded ridge of sugru.  This felt like it would be doable, and I used it for awhile with the temporary ridge, and it made it much more grippable.  I re-created a quick sample for the pick, but my actual trial ridge I created was much longer and stuck out more.  You can place it to catch under your ring finger or pinky finger, depending on what feels best for you.

10496-010498-1

Now, in this next pic notice how, even with my small hands, that my middle finger actually overhangs the edge of the right mouse button. 

10500-2

I added some foam risers to the buttons to accomplish two things.  1) got my finger up so it didn’t catch the plastic edge of the mouse body when clicking, and 2) it made my clicking force more “down” into the table rather than back towards the palm.  This reduced click-induced mouse movement a lot.

10502-310504-4

With all of these mods, the mouse starts to become useable for “ergonomic” gaming.  The 800 dpi sensor is still a big limitation, though.  Also, the thumb up/down buttons in place of a scroll wheel takes a lot of getting used to.  It is never as smooth and intuitive as a scroll wheel, but doable.
Hope this helps. 

Offline treigle

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 00:42:16 »
Thanks again for all the info!

I ended up scoring an Orthomouse cheaply on eBay, so I can give you guys a side by side between the Orthomouse, Contour Mouse, and Deathadder in a week or so (also a few trackballs if anyone is interested).
Kinesis Advantage, Truly Ergonomic (ANSI), Filco 87

Offline conandy

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 01:22:46 »
I considered the contour mouse quite a bit, even stopped by an "ergo" store to get touchy-feely with one.  I found that the countour was designed specifically to make you use your whole are to move the mouse (hand completly palming the mouse, no "wrist" contact with table), which meant not great for gaming. 

I never bought one for real world trial, though.  I'd love to hear your experience with it. 

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Ergonomic Gaming Mouse
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 01:24:41 »
Quote from: Inf3rn0_44;483956
I am talking about real ergonomics. Not just advertised ergo, like the G700. A natural hand position with a good sensor.

not going to happen and a G700 fells pretty good in the hand there a reason I have 3.

Why three? why not just extra feet and batteries? if you want one of those sideways ergo mouse you can check amazon they have tons.
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