Mech keyboard similar to old Northgate OmniKey

[NLight95]

I'm checking out various mech kb reviews around the Internet and YT. Unfortunately I live in a small town/rural area where I can't go to a nearby store and try some out. I used to own a Northgate OmniKey years ago and really liked it because it had a light touch, a metal base, and I could type fairly quickly on it without much fatigue. I think (?) it used ALPS switches but I'm not sure. I also used some Focus keyboards and while they were no match for the NG, they were better than most of the dome keys of that time.

So I'm looking for a mech kb similar to the NG in construction (I love metal construction) but not as "clicky" as the old IBM buckling spring M models. I'm thinking of a brown switch unit but I like to type fast and light and was wondering if the blue would be a better option because I use my kb mostly for that purpose. I've ruled out black switches, and reds don't seem to fit the bill for me either.

I game but not competitively (mostly single player). I enjoy mostly RPG & FPS. A backlit kb would be a nice plus since at night I keep the lights low/off to save energy and maximize "game immersion" so a black kb w/white lettering is quite hard to see. Another plus would be a few media keys.

My current kb is a Logitech Media Keyboard Pro. I like its media keys but it has a horrible non-standard layout for the function keys (google an image to see what I mean) and it's typical membrane; quiet but zero feedback. I do like Logitech software though.

So far I like the Decks and have a fondness for the Das; but dang if I'm not having a hell of a time trying to pick one!

[Matias]

If you're used to the Northgate OmniKey (which had ALPS switches) then the Cherrys will probably feel wrong -- they're not very tactile.

Are you on PC or Mac?

[NLight95]

Thanks for the feedback. Actually it's been quite a while since I've had my old NG OmniKey. It was a superb kb overall except the ALPS switches seemed to "soften" after about a year of use, and I would have to clean them periodically because they were magnets for debris (I still have my NG key puller). They were also uneven from one key to the next: The pressure was the same but the actuation point seemed to vary when pressing down various keys. I really hope the Cherry switches don't do that.

I think if money was no matter then I'd quickly opt for a Topre. Since it's made in Japan that's a VERY BIG plus to me as far as quality is concerned. More and more I'm thinking about either a backlit kb or a white/grey layout like Topre or my old NG. Even now as I type it's hard for me to see the keys on my Log kb. While black may be the current "cool" color for peripherals it certainly isn't for ergonomics, at least imho. Call me old-school but I actually prefer lighter colored hardware, except for maybe speakers and such.

If I find the cherrys too clacky I can always install an o-ring kit. I think it would probably help with finger fatigue.

[jpc]

For fatigue, try cherry MX "ergonomic" brown switches or a topre.
Das is probably a good option.

[Matias]

Thanks for the feedback. Actually it's been quite a while since I've had my old NG OmniKey. It was a superb kb overall except the ALPS switches seemed to "soften" after about a year of use, and I would have to clean them periodically because they were magnets for debris (I still have my NG key puller). They were also uneven from one key to the next: The pressure was the same but the actuation point seemed to vary when pressing down various keys. I really hope the Cherry switches don't do that.

That's a shame.  I know that ALPS used cheaper internal parts towards the end of their production life.  That's why Fukkas have that ping sound when you hit them hard.  The metal spring is too thin.

As for the debris, you'll get that with any mechanical switch.  The suction created on the downstroke drawings air into the switch on the upstroke.  If anything, it would probably be worse on the Cherrys because the hole is bigger.

I think if money was no matter then I'd quickly opt for a Topre. Since it's made in Japan that's a VERY BIG plus to me as far as quality is concerned.

The Japanese definitely have stricter QC standards as a general rule.

I haven't used a Topre in a long time, but as a capacitive switch, it should be pretty consistent with regards to actuation point.  Though, they do have a rubber dome which will also soften over time.

More and more I'm thinking about either a backlit kb or a white/grey layout like Topre or my old NG. Even now as I type it's hard for me to see the keys on my Log kb. While black may be the current "cool" color for peripherals it certainly isn't for ergonomics, at least imho. Call me old-school but I actually prefer lighter colored hardware, except for maybe speakers and such.

I know what you mean.  When we did the Tactile Pro 3, we were surprised at how many people asked us to keep it white.  Definitely easier to see in darker lighting.

If I find the cherrys too clacky I can always install an o-ring kit. I think it would probably help with finger fatigue.

O-rings would still be clacky on the upstroke.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Yeah, I was going to say that generally people who run through a few of the standard types (I mean not just cherry types) seem to find its alps or cherry.

Given this, I'd recommend getting something cheap on ebay that you'd be willing to drive a car over the next day after you test some stuff and THEN buy a "real" one. Something like those compaqs with browns for around $30 generally, just so you can get the feel.

[NLight95]

What are your opinions on this white iRocks kb w/blue backlighting?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823204028

Yeah, I know it's a membrane-type unit and the layout is closer to that of a notebook, but I thought it might at least be a step up from my current Logitech and then I could patiently wait until a better option presents itself. I would rather take a chance on a $35 kb than one that's over $100. The nearest store where I could try out a selection of at least some decent keyboards would perhaps be Best Buy which is well over 100 miles away (yeah, I'm way out in the boonies). So my only real option is mail order/Internet shopping. Walmart, Kmart, Sears, Staples are the only stores relatively nearby, and I've already looked at their stocks and didn't find anything worth noting.

Does anyone know if Matias or any other manufacturer makes a white tactile/mechanical keyboard for the PC? The ones I've seen I've seen from Matias are for an Apple Mac and such.

[Matias]

What are your opinions on this white iRocks kb w/blue backlighting?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823204028

Blacklit for $35 means it's likely a rebranded commodity keyboard from a factory in China.  Never seen one in person so I can't say if it's any good, but the Newegg page has lots of reviewer comments, so that should give you an idea of how good/bad it is.

Does anyone know if Matias or any other manufacturer makes a white tactile/mechanical keyboard for the PC? The ones I've seen I've seen from Matias are for an Apple Mac and such.

Our white Tactile Pro can be used on a PC.  There's an AutoHotkey script that switches Command & Option to Win & Alt, and also gives you the Option symbol shortcuts.

[MKB]

The omnikey is an amazing board.  The filco zero is likely the closest but misses in multipe categories.  You might enjoy buckling spring or Cherry clears or ergo clears.

[NLight95]

The omnikey is an amazing board.  The filco zero is likely the closest but misses in multipe categories.  You might enjoy buckling spring or Cherry clears or ergo clears.

As I mentioned in the op I find buckling spring too noisy (clicky), and my fingers fatigue after about an hour of use. The clears are nearly as heavy as buckling spring so I don't consider them a viable option for me. I'm looking for a lighter switch with better tactile (re: audible) feedback than the browns, like perhaps a set of blues with the pressure point of the browns. The Focus kbs were a bit like this and my typing was noticeably better on them, though unfortunately the switches got "mushy" with heavy use and deteriorated quickly over age. Th NG was a tad stiffer but not by much but at least they could take more of a pounding.

Creating an ergo clear kb would probably be too cost prohibitive for me, and aren't they even stiffer than the standard clears?

I might just compromise and opt for a backlit black kb with a set of blues. It would be nice if I could find a kb in a dark/light beige style like the NG pr IBM but unfortunately finding a mech kb with that color combo is very hard to come by nowadays. :mmph:

[False_Dmitry_II]

No, ergo clears use a lighter spring. However being not at all clicky, there goes that. I personally find the spring on blues and browns too light.

You could always just, you know, buy an omnikey.

[TexasFlood]

You could always just, you know, buy an omnikey.

Sure, like this one starting bid $49.00, BIN $99.00, looks like mine!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Our white Tactile Pro can be used on a PC.  There's an AutoHotkey script that switches Command & Option to Win & Alt, and also gives you the Option symbol shortcuts.

Is that fixed now, then? I tried that for a short while and the alt+tab switcher would jam open – the nuisance of remembering where Windows and alt now were (not all that hard as it turns out) was significantly less than the broken Autohotkey script so I threw the script away. Autohotkey itself is pretty reliable – I have my own script full of goodies – and I don't know what yours was doing wrong. The only bug I've found is that sometimes ctrl-alt-shift-8 unbinds itself – it really doesn't like that for some reason.

[NLight95]

I don't want to rely on a script for my kb to work in Windows so the Matias won't work for me. The NG OmniKey is mighty tempting but since I use Windows key functions all the time it won't work well for me either. I really do like the function keys on the side because it's a one-hand operation vs two. I know it makes the kb wider but ergonomically I think it's just far better.

Looks like I've come full circle back to the Das & Ducky kbs being the best options for me at the present time. Think I will wait before spending that kinda money as I need to make some more-pressing upgrades elsewhere on my aging C2D socket 775 system.

[Matias]

Is that fixed now, then? I tried that for a short while and the alt+tab switcher would jam open – the nuisance of remembering where Windows and alt now were (not all that hard as it turns out) was significantly less than the broken Autohotkey script so I threw the script away. Autohotkey itself is pretty reliable – I have my own script full of goodies – and I don't know what yours was doing wrong. The only bug I've found is that sometimes ctrl-alt-shift-8 unbinds itself – it really doesn't like that for some reason.

Could it be that our script was conflicting with your script?

[False_Dmitry_II]

I just have the right control set in my registry as the windows key. I did that because I mainly use older keyboards that didn't have one. That and I lost nothing in doing so since I literally never used that key.

The script is just to have the windows key in the more familiar place. It would work anyway. I don't bother doing anything about them being reversed when I use my modded AEKII.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Could it be that our script was conflicting with your script?

I couldn't say for certain now whether I checked that, though I should double-check that at some point.

[r4pture]

Sure, like this one starting bid $49.00, BIN $99.00, looks like mine!

Show Image

Sadly, it has 3 dead keys and the enter button looks like it has something wrong with it from the pic.  :(

NLight95, check your PMs, I have a fully functioning, great shape Omnikey 101, as well as a Dell AT101W (Black ALPS) I'm looking to part with.  All keys on both work, both are well cleaned and well taken care of.

[TexasFlood]

Sadly, it has 3 dead keys and the enter button looks like it has something wrong with it from the pic.  

Thanks for pointing that out, not sure if I just missed that originally or if the listing has been updated, but you're right.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Could it be that our script was conflicting with your script?

It's an Autohotkey issue. It occurs with the test script below on my Windows XP computer, but not on my Windows 7 laptop, so I don't know precisely what the trigger is.

You appear to be doing this:

LAlt::LWin
LWin::LAlt

(I read somewhere that the script also allows access to all the symbols, but how I don't know -- what do you press for that?)

On my XP computer, this assignment breaks alt-tab: when I press alt-tab, instead of switching immediately to the previous window, the alt-tab window stays open (and you can even take a screenshot of it at this point, which is normally impossible). In Windows 7, alt-tab works as expected.

At a guess, this sort of basic assignment is tripping up the keydown/keyup sequence and causing LAlt-up to disappear. Autohotkey is "dirty", and incorrect use does lead to jammed keys. I tried to bind win+V to a Perl script that would transform the clipboard to plain text, removing all of Outlook's spurious whitespace, then trigger ctrl+V to paste into the current window. This lead to random jamming of the windows key, so I resolved this by performing all the clipboard access and regular expression transformation within Autohotkey itself, avoiding the need to spawn a subprocess.

I do use a third-party keyboard layout, United Kingdom (International)), but I temporarily installed plain old United Kingdom and then re-opened your driver, to no avail. My own script was not running during any testing, of course.


PS: In IE 9 in Windows 7, I get warned, "TactilePro_WindowsDriver.exe is not commonly downloaded and could harm your computer. Delete / Actions / View Downloads" where Actions gives me options of Don't run this program, and Delete, and a sneaky Options that reveals Run anyway. I imagine this is exacerbated by the executable not being signed, which makes IE more nervous than it would be already. However, I rarely use 7 so I can't say for certain about how to cheer up IE 9.

[NLight95]

Just for a heads up, in my op I intended to purchase a keyboard now but since that time I've been building myself a new system and see that I can't fit a new kb into my current budget, which is extremely tight at the moment. I deeply appreciate all the offers and when I can manage to set some $$ aside I will keep them in mind.

[Matias]

It's an Autohotkey issue. It occurs with the test script below on my Windows XP computer, but not on my Windows 7 laptop, so I don't know precisely what the trigger is.

You appear to be doing this:

LAlt::LWin
LWin::LAlt

That's correct.

(I read somewhere that the script also allows access to all the symbols, but how I don't know -- what do you press for that?)

Hold down the Option key (or Shift and Option) and then press the key that has the symbol you want.

On my XP computer, this assignment breaks alt-tab: when I press alt-tab, instead of switching immediately to the previous window, the alt-tab window stays open (and you can even take a screenshot of it at this point, which is normally impossible). In Windows 7, alt-tab works as expected.

That's good to know.  XP was never very good with USB devices.

PS: In IE 9 in Windows 7, I get warned, "TactilePro_WindowsDriver.exe is not commonly downloaded and could harm your computer. Delete / Actions / View Downloads" where Actions gives me options of Don't run this program, and Delete, and a sneaky Options that reveals Run anyway. I imagine this is exacerbated by the executable not being signed, which makes IE more nervous than it would be already. However, I rarely use 7 so I can't say for certain about how to cheer up IE 9.

Windows gives you this warning whenever you run an .EXE file that isn't signed.  For our AHK script you can ignore it.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Hopefully you'll sell enough Tactile Pro 4 keyboards to be able to afford a code signing certificate ;-)

What do you mean by hold option? I don't have an option key. The three keys along the bottom row are ctrl, Windows and alt. None of those are spare, unlike ctrl on the Mac which, unless something radical has changed since Tiger, does nothing on a Mac outside of Terminal.

What you meant was, the "driver" removes almost the entirety of what the Windows key exists for (you even got a list of these with the Dell AT10* series keyboards, but there are far more shortcuts now than in 1995). No more Win+E (Explorer), Win+R (Run), Win+L (lock), Win+P (projector control), Win+U ("Fore–ground win–dow …"), Win+B (focus the system tray) and the rest of the new ones added in Windows 7. I don't know if it also kills off Win+Arrows (restore or minimise window, maximise window, position window to left or right side of the desktop) in Windows 7, probably not as they're not alphanumeric; I can't test that from home.

The Windows key is also ripe for custom bindings to unused shortcuts such as Win+V (paste special for programs that that don't have it), Win+J (launch JujuEdit), Win+X (paste makeshift GUID, long story). It is however not a spare key.

There's no global solution. In the UK the alt gr key is vestigial and therefore spare (it only provides access to ¦, €, and acute accents), although I find it hard to press so I use ctrl+alt instead, which officially simulates it (they're not equivalent – AutoHotkey bindings can cause horrible key jamming as a result, but I forget which way around goes terribly wrong).

I don't think the key jam is anything to do with "USB devices" (), it's to do with Autohotkey screwing around with event sequences, and any non-standard software will cause issues. It's mice I have trouble with, but that's because I have cheapo Microsoft IntelliMouse Opticals, and they're trash.