Author Topic: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?  (Read 6388 times)

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Offline Velma

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Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 17:42:56 »
Hi there, im new here and this is my first post so i apologize if it is posted in the wrong section.

I would like to discuss cherry black switches with you. I have been a mech-board enthusiast for about 2 years and owned and tried countless of boards and every avaible switch (except for the famous buckling spring) and i cannot, for the love of the keyboard-god, understand why anyone would want to use cherry blacks. Now, lets just get this very clear: im not saying people who use them are stupid/misled/have bad taste, nor do i want to start a childish flamewar over wich type of key is the best, because as we all know, they are made for different people with different needs. What i do want to find out however, is who, or what, the cherry black switch is actually made for and what purpose/advantage it might have for some people.

My second mechanical keyboard was one with Blacks. My very first was a Razer Black Widow wich i disliked because of the big and clumsy layout and because i kept hitting the poorly-placed macro keys when i was reaching for shift or CTRL (altough i must say i still think the board has very good build quality for its price, and here in sweden its one of the very few boards you can actually buy in a store.) so i re-sold it to a friend and went for the other (only) option the store had to offer: a Steelseries 6gv2. Back then i didnt know that different boards used different switches, i thought all mechanical keys where the same, so the Steelseries looked very appealing to me, it was compact and had no distracting macro keys. it looked like the regular dell keyboard i had used before, except it was mechanical. Perfect!

The moment i came home from the store and pushed the keys for the first time, i was a little schocked. At thirst i thought there had been a mistake and that i had gotten a non-mechanical keyboard, because the keys didnt feel anything like the BWs cherry blues. I called the store and the explained that this board used a different kind of switch, the black one, and that it was "Generally favored by gamers".

 Now, i have been a diehard gamer since i got my first home computer when i was 6, but i could not see what these so called black switches had to offer that would give a "Gamer" an advantage. At the time i was a hardcore Starcraft 2 player (i had just gotten into the master league a few days after it was introduced) and i play FPS games daily aswell, and i performed way worse with the steelseries board in every game than i had ever done with my old rubber dome or black widow. Pushing the keys felt like pushing down a rusty iron spring, and since there was no tactile feedback i was forced to pretty much bottom out on every keypress, wich eventually caused my fingers and wrists to hurt just after playing a couple of starcraft 2 matches, and my actions per minute had gone down the drain.

I thought to myself that maybe it was just a "getting used to it" thing, or that the keys would break in and become softer after some use. It didnt. i stuck with the board for a whole month, and even though i learned how to not bottom out, it was distracting for my muscle memory when playing Starcraft 2 to not only remember the stressful in-game actions like building workers and supply depots, but to also remember the actuation point of the key. My joints and fingers would still start to hurt after a session of gaming, and i was starting to worry that i might be developing Carpal Tunnel syndrome (every gamers worst fear) so i literary went back to my old rubber dome and tried to sell the steelseries board to friends, but after trying it nobody wanted it, even if offered to give it away for free. Some of my friends remain hostile thowards mechanical keyboards to this day because of their experience with the cherry blacks. Since the razer and steelseries where the only mechanical boards avaible in store, i gave up on mech boards until the marked seemed to grow and retailers started to carry new boards with new switches and i was introduced to the Zowie Celeritas with browns (i use a Filco Majestouch with browns these days and i dont think i will ever switch) wich i instantly fell in love with, it had the tactile feel of blues, except less clicky, required less force to push down and easier to double-tap. The Board had some flaws and i eventually had to return it because of a defect (some keys would always doubletap even if only pressed once, and it used cherry black switches on the enter and spacebar  :eek:) but i had found my switch: the brown.

TLDR I really, really do not understand why blacks are advertised and marketed as "THE Gaming switch". A gamer requires keys that are fast and easy to push in critical moments, and a tactile feedback is very useful so you can spam even faster without bottoming out (big advantage in RTS games). Blacks are the complete opposite, they require a crazy amount of force to press down (and im a fencer so my frists and hands are in pretty good shape) and they lack any form of feedback, you have to learn and memorize where the activation point is and different boards have different depth. Even after getting used to, gaming with blacks was a nightmare in comparison to any other switch (including cheap rubber domes) and i wouldnt be surprised if prolonged use of blacks could actually cause "premature" Carpal Tunnel syndrome!  :confused:

Now, again, i would really like to hear someone who prefers blacks for gaming explain why they prefer them over other switches. Again, im not bashing on people who like them, im just curious and i DO think that blacks are more of a "niche" switch than any other cherry switch and should NOT be marketed as a "gaming switch" because i have never met any gamer, competetive or casual, who likes them.

Please, prove me wrong  :) (no sarcasm, i really want to hear some thoughts from someone who prefers blacks)

Offline damorgue

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 17:50:13 »
Blacks aren't often marketed as gaming switches as far as I have seen. The reds are however often marketed as such.  The reds are the easiest to press since they require the smallest force.

The MX blues have a hysteresis which makes them hard to press fast several times in a row. At least that is the general consensus. They also make a lot of noise which may disturb voice chatting in games. Everyone is entitled to a personal opinion, so your taste may vary.

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 17:51:42 »
Even your tldr is tldr. o_O

People like blacks for gaming because they are good for double tapping.  But ultimately you have to catch em all to know for sure what you like best.

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 17:59:48 »
I mentioned the double-tap problem with blues i think. Of course everyone is entiteld to their opinion, the purpose of this thread is to hear some opinions :)
i would simply like to hear from someone who uses blacks for gaming (and have tried different switches) and why they prefer them over other keys.

I do think blacks are marketed as the gaming switch, at least most switch guides tend to say that blacks (and reds) are for gaming, blues are for typing and clears and browns are "hybrids".

It might be interesting to note that sometime during 2011 someone made a study of what keyboards all the famous Starcraft 2 Pro players used, and browns and (surprisingly) blues seemed to be the most popular and very few succesful players used blacks (mainly those heavily sponsored by steelseries). Even non-mechanical keyboards such as the legendary Q-senn DT was more popular than black-switch keyboards.

Offline sth

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:01:11 »
it's a marketing gimmick. ignore that ****, try them all and see what you like.
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Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:04:03 »
Why would blacks be better for double-tapping? it makes no sense that the hardest to push-down switch would be superior for doubletapping. If you need to doubletap fast, having tactile feedback is obviously a huge advantage, wich is why Browns are the most popular switches among RTS gamers.

also whats wrong with long posts? the TLDR aint that long lol  ;D

Offline sth

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:04:52 »
this whole discussion is marketing hype. seriously try not to put this much thought into it -- it's all entirely a matter of personal preference.
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Offline ra7c7er

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:06:49 »
I liked the blacks when I used them for ease of double tapping and for typing because they are a bit quieter than the others.

Honestly the way "gaming" keyboards are going it won't be long till every switch comes out marketed as a "gaming" switch. If they haven't already.

On another semi-related note a gaming friend of mine uses clears and greys for gaming because he likes the stiffer feel. It's all personal choice.

Offline Glissant

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:07:39 »
Fencing and typing use the exact same motion and muscles, so that makes perfect sense.
Oh and waaaay too much whine when the first sentence of your tldr would have been enough.
That said, black switches are advertised as 'the' gaming switch? I always saw red switches advertised more for gaming.
And I don't know why. Maybe it's because red and black switches are an easy switch to sell to people that claim to be hard core gamers but are actually just two hour a day gamers. Who the **** knows xD.

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:19:16 »
this whole discussion is marketing hype. seriously try not to put this much thought into it -- it's all entirely a matter of personal preference.
And i want to hear someone with a personal preference for blacks. Everyone is different and like different keys, and it would be really interesting to know why some people prefere blacks over the other switches.

id just like to discuss (as in share thoughts and opinions) with a gamer who prefers blacks, because obviously there must be some of them since the blacks where the first switch to be marketed to the mainstream gaming audience, and the company claimed that they had done testing and research with a test audience of pro and casual gamers to find out wich switch most gamers prefere.

i find the "try them and see wich switch that you prefere" posts odd and irrelevant to this topic since i revealed wich switch i prefere and how i found it (by testing different boards) and the thing is that:

A: Retailers rarely let you try a sealed product before you buy them and demo units of mech boards are very rare (at least where i live), i think Razer BW is the only board i know about that allows you to try the (arrow) keys through a "hole" in the case.
B: Most people cant or dont want to afford to buy one of each switch to decide wich they like best, they look up guides on the internet and many of these claim that blacks are favored by gamers. this is not a marketing ploy as these guides are usaly written by independant keyboard enthusiasts.

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:27:14 »
Fencing and typing use the exact same motion and muscles, so that makes perfect sense.
Oh and waaaay too much whine when the first sentence of your tldr would have been enough.
That said, black switches are advertised as 'the' gaming switch? I always saw red switches advertised more for gaming.
And I don't know why. Maybe it's because red and black switches are an easy switch to sell to people that claim to be hard core gamers but are actually just two hour a day gamers. Who the **** knows xD.
Fencing is tiering, but extremley good workout for your wrists. If typing on a keyboard wears on my wrists more than a fencing session, i think something is wrong.

There is no "whine" in my post, its just some personal history and it provides a context for discussion (i bring up points about why i dont like the blacks etc)

I dont understand the agressive tone. I thought people here where just as passionate about discussing keyboards as i am  :confused:

Offline sth

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:33:00 »
this whole discussion is marketing hype. seriously try not to put this much thought into it -- it's all entirely a matter of personal preference.
And i want to hear someone with a personal preference for blacks. Everyone is different and like different keys, and it would be really interesting to know why some people prefere blacks over the other switches.

id just like to discuss (as in share thoughts and opinions) with a gamer who prefers blacks, because obviously there must be some of them since the blacks where the first switch to be marketed to the mainstream gaming audience, and the company claimed that they had done testing and research with a test audience of pro and casual gamers to find out wich switch most gamers prefere.

i find the "try them and see wich switch that you prefere" posts odd and irrelevant to this topic since i revealed wich switch i prefere and how i found it (by testing different boards) and the thing is that:

A: Retailers rarely let you try a sealed product before you buy them and demo units of mech boards are very rare (at least where i live), i think Razer BW is the only board i know about that allows you to try the (arrow) keys through a "hole" in the case.
B: Most people cant or dont want to afford to buy one of each switch to decide wich they like best, they look up guides on the internet and many of these claim that blacks are favored by gamers. this is not a marketing ploy as these guides are usaly written by independant keyboard enthusiasts.
written by independent keyboard enthusiasts with worthless opinions.
i know it's not cheap, but the nice thing about this community is you can usually pass on a board you don't like after trying it.

what i am saying is that this kind of discussion is irrelevant. those gamers that prefer blacks either prefer them because they are sold in gaming keyboards by steelseries and others and just dont know that there are other switches, or they have tried lots of switches and have settled on blacks as a personal favorite. discussing personal opinions of switches is generally seen as a pretty... 'noobish' (for lack of a better word) thing here -- people obviously have their preferences but 99% of the time it is a subjective preference built over time and experience with different boards/switches. That 1% includes people with stress injuries and/or have other ergonomic, etc requirements that rule out heavier switches or ergo boards that are not equipped with certain switches.
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Offline The_Beast

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:41:57 »
Blues aren't bad for gaming, they just take a bit of time to learn how to use them when gaming. Reds/blacks have a very low learning curve so they are easy to get up and go with. I think that's why they are marketed as gaming switches. IMO for your first board, I would go with browns since they are the mid-ground.


However, this is my opinion.
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Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:42:23 »
this whole discussion is marketing hype. seriously try not to put this much thought into it -- it's all entirely a matter of personal preference.
And i want to hear someone with a personal preference for blacks. Everyone is different and like different keys, and it would be really interesting to know why some people prefere blacks over the other switches.

id just like to discuss (as in share thoughts and opinions) with a gamer who prefers blacks, because obviously there must be some of them since the blacks where the first switch to be marketed to the mainstream gaming audience, and the company claimed that they had done testing and research with a test audience of pro and casual gamers to find out wich switch most gamers prefere.

i find the "try them and see wich switch that you prefere" posts odd and irrelevant to this topic since i revealed wich switch i prefere and how i found it (by testing different boards) and the thing is that:

A: Retailers rarely let you try a sealed product before you buy them and demo units of mech boards are very rare (at least where i live), i think Razer BW is the only board i know about that allows you to try the (arrow) keys through a "hole" in the case.
B: Most people cant or dont want to afford to buy one of each switch to decide wich they like best, they look up guides on the internet and many of these claim that blacks are favored by gamers. this is not a marketing ploy as these guides are usaly written by independant keyboard enthusiasts.
written by independent keyboard enthusiasts with worthless opinions.
i know it's not cheap, but the nice thing about this community is you can usually pass on a board you don't like after trying it.

what i am saying is that this kind of discussion is irrelevant. those gamers that prefer blacks either prefer them because they are sold in gaming keyboards by steelseries and others and just dont know that there are other switches, or they have tried lots of switches and have settled on blacks as a personal favorite. discussing personal opinions of switches is generally seen as a pretty... 'noobish' (for lack of a better word) thing here -- people obviously have their preferences but 99% of the time it is a subjective preference built over time and experience with different boards/switches. That 1% includes people with stress injuries and/or have other ergonomic, etc requirements that rule out heavier switches or ergo boards that are not equipped with certain switches.
Thanks for the "Briefing" :) while i can see why some people would think its pretty uninteresting to just exchange personal opinions, i was thinking in more technical and expressive terms. In the end personal preference comes from a technical reason (i.e i like browns because they are light and tactile, hence optimal for RTS gaming).

I guess i was quite naive, because i actually thought there was some kind of reason behind the whole "blacks are for gamers" thing and who else could know why except you guys :) (who seem to know the most about keyboards on the internet). Ive heard and read it so many times so i thought in the end there most be a cause to this widespread claim.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:42:54 »
I've wondered what it would be like to get a board with blacks and put on a nice, squishy o-ring mod.  I like to really pound the keys and it seems to me that blacks+pads would make it as comfortable and pleasing as possible.  Even with the tactile bump in the browns I can't seem to type without bottoming out.  I figure it might work to just embrace it.  Would it be tough to move a keyboard with Cherry MX Blacks in the classifieds?

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:49:34 »
I've wondered what it would be like to get a board with blacks and put on a nice, squishy o-ring mod.  I like to really pound the keys and it seems to me that blacks+pads would make it as comfortable and pleasing as possible.  Even with the tactile bump in the browns I can't seem to type without bottoming out.  I figure it might work to just embrace it.  Would it be tough to move a keyboard with Cherry MX Blacks in the classifieds?
Have you tried Clears? imo they are like blacks except tactile, like mix of blacks and browns. I actually found them quite decent, the high force combined with a pretty neat tactile squeak gives a strange sensation  :) it just feels right when you hit a key hard and get that squeeky feedback. Feels natural somehow, like crushing small beetles with your fingers (not that i would ever do that)  :D
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 August 2012, 18:51:36 by Velma »

Offline WRXChris

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 19:35:02 »
I don't think that many people around here favor mx blacks (other than the coveted vintage black stems which are usually used with lighter springs). As far as gaming goes, linear switches are probably used most frequently by fps gamers.  The smooth linear nature of the switch allows them to be actuated more precisely than the variable force tactile switches. But as others have said, the differences are negligible and it all comes down to personal preference. If you like browns and clears you should definitely try ergo clears!

Offline Finwens

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 19:36:58 »
I just bought a steelseries 6gv2 (with Black switches) and I love it. I live in Brazil and paid around 210 dollars for this board (including shipping and taxes), so it was pretty expensive. I didn't have a chance to test any of the switches. Blues are too loud and I usually play after midnight, so no. I think Reds are too light and maybe I would press a key mistakenly. I think Browns are really nice, but the stores which had the rosewill keyboards didn't send it to Brazil, and the Filco ones are way too expensive to import. So I was left with the 6Gv2.

Well, in the first day, after playing a couple hours of Battlefield 3, my left hand and wrist were hurting. Two days later, I don't feel anything. Played 4 hours of WoW today holding the W key all the time and I'm fine. Typing for hours in Skype and no pain at all.

Maybe in a couple years I'll get a Filco with brown switches, really want to try those out.

(sorry if there's any grammar mistakes).

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 19:37:47 »
Have you tried Clears? imo they are like blacks except tactile, like mix of blacks and browns. I actually found them quite decent, the high force combined with a pretty neat tactile squeak gives a strange sensation  :) it just feels right when you hit a key hard and get that squeeky feedback. Feels natural somehow, like crushing small beetles with your fingers (not that i would ever do that)  :D

I only own browns.  Clears seem to be very rare.

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 19:55:08 »

Well, in the first day, after playing a couple hours of Battlefield 3, my left hand and wrist were hurting. Two days later, I don't feel anything. Played 4 hours of WoW today holding the W key all the time and I'm fine. Typing for hours in Skype and no pain at all.

(sorry if there's any grammar mistakes).
Gratz that you managed to get a mech keyboard, dont worry the market will probably expand soon so you can try out some browns :) maybe there is a store that ships zowie celeritas or ducky boards. theyre decent.
and by the way just a tip in World of Warcraft you should move by holding down both mouse buttons, it makes turning much easier, and it frees up your other hand so that you dont have to press down W while using skills if you are fighting a running target in pvp :) trust me you will get owned alot in pvp if you are a "keyboard turner" because people who control with the mouse will just run around you in circles and you wont be able to hit them for most of the time, keyboard turning is MUCH slower.

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 19:59:05 »
I don't think that many people around here favor mx blacks (other than the coveted vintage black stems which are usually used with lighter springs). As far as gaming goes, linear switches are probably used most frequently by fps gamers.  The smooth linear nature of the switch allows them to be actuated more precisely than the variable force tactile switches. But as others have said, the differences are negligible and it all comes down to personal preference. If you like browns and clears you should definitely try ergo clears!
Ergo Clears sounds cool, its always nice to own something exquisite and rare :) sadly they seem a little too rare because i cant find a  manufacturer that ships within EU, if you add 25-40% custom taxes to an already quite costy filco board, it becomes a little too hefty when im already perfectly satisfied with my filco browns :)

Offline ShakeR

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:17:59 »
MechanicalKeyboards.com - What do you type on?

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:23:30 »
Here's what the users think: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/mechanical_switches.php

:)
Why is Topre rated so low? i have never had the opportunity to try them but i thought their boards where the rolls-royces of mechanical keyboards?

Offline sth

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:29:36 »
people are quick to point out that topres have rubber domes (duhhhhhhhh), and they automatically assume that because their $2 rdoms board felt like ****, a $300 rdoms board is going to feel like **** as well.

they don't :)
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Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:37:02 »
people are quick to point out that topres have rubber domes (duhhhhhhhh), and they automatically assume that because their $2 rdoms board felt like ****, a $300 rdoms board is going to feel like **** as well.

they don't :)

Wow. some people actually rate on stuff they havent tried? is there a facepalm emoticon?

btw arent topres actually mechanical with like a rubber dome coat? like a rubber shell switch with a great mechanical spine? so people rate on stuff they havent tried based on false information/assumptions? double facepalm
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:38:57 by Velma »

Offline sth

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:40:02 »
no.
topre switches use a combination of rubber dome for tactility and capacitive spring for actuation. they aren't true mechanical switches but they are very nice (quality/buildwise) and are usually grouped in with mechanicals to separate them from more-common RDOMS boards. i can't speak for anybody that votes on mechanicalkeyboards.com poll; i think that poll is silly and kind of a waste of time.
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Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:45:21 »
Thanks for clearing that out. seems like i was the one misinformed. you certainly dont need to speak for silly people since you seem to know what you are talking about sir  ;)
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:47:08 by Velma »

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:56:21 »
i find some of the votings on the cherry switches really wierd too. im assuming the clears rating is another case of "havent tried but looks like rubber!" and reds arent that bad to type on. 

im assuming its like youtube or IMDB where 90% of the voters vote in black and white (10 if the like it and 1 if they didnt. Nothing in between. And if they havent seen/tried something but their neighboors cousins friend said something is bad, or they read it on 4chan/reddit, they'll give that a 1 too )

again maybe silly to try to analyze something that just should be taken for what it is: a silly site.
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 August 2012, 20:58:09 by Velma »

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 21:36:02 »
Like I said, ultimately you have to catch em all to know what works for you.  Opinions can be helpful but take them with a huge grain of salt.  Generalizations and categories are useless.

And as I famously said once out loud in public, no one likes blacks.  Seriously, almost no one around here prefers them.  I think dante and Rigs do, maybe?  Finding someone on geekhack to argue for them from first hand experience is tough.

Offline nala

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 21:51:56 »
Blacks for gaming is just a marketing thing. Reds are technically the best for gaming and blues the worst (out of all Cherry MX switches). It's really hard to tell the differences between switches while gaming as it mostly depends on what game you're playing, if it needs doubletapping, or just one tap. It's all about what tastes, though. My brother loves buckling springs for gaming while I don't really dig them.

Personally, I use blues for typing (work), and browns for gaming. My next buy will be probably a Poker w/ reds. Tried blacks and they're quite tiring for gaming, as you bottom out like a mother****er. I guess it's probably the switch that takes most time to get used to.
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Offline sth

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 21:54:30 »
Reds are technically the best for gaming and blues the worst (out of all Cherry MX switches).

on what technical basis?



that was a rhetorical question; i really dont care why you prefer reds but they are the best for your gaming habits, not gaming period.
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Offline hashbaz

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:04:01 »
Yes, please no absolute statements about what is best for what purpose.  You can describe the physical characteristics of each switch type objectively.  Everything else is personal preference.

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:06:47 »
I agree with you and i don't like the way sites and retailers "label" different switches, many webshops, companies, sites and so called "guides"  use these labels, or you might as well call them stereotypes, and claim that  blues are THE best for typing, linear switches are THE ones for gaming and Brown is the hybrid. I think you are all somewhat familiar with these marketing switch "labels" and I get so tired of them  because they are simply not true, it all comes  to preference. I know people who personally prefer blues for gaming and reds for typing, some people have one switch they consider best in every aspect, etc. It's all personal preferences.

Saying blue is the BEST for typing is like saying chicken is the BEST meal for dinner, really.

Offline nala

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:08:14 »
Reds are technically the best for gaming and blues the worst (out of all Cherry MX switches).

on what technical basis?



that was a rhetorical question; i really dont care why you prefer reds but they are the best for your gaming habits, not gaming period.


Low actuation force. You may like bucklings for gaming but for most of the gaming users, light = better.

I'm not saying what's best and what's worst. Never said blues were absolute best. I'm just saying what's the general opinion about switches considering their specifications. That's why I said TECHNICALLY.

Switches are about personal preference and that's why there's a wide variety to pick.
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:11:34 by nala »
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Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:16:53 »
Tactile feedback is a great advantage in RTS games (imo) so reds are not technically the best for gaming, it depends on what game you play and if you like to utilize tactIle feedback or not. Again, each to his own. Personal preferences etc

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:18:51 »
Low actuation force. You may like bucklings for gaming but for most of the gaming users, light = better.

I'm not saying what's best and what's worst. Never said blues were absolute best. I'm just saying what's the general opinion about switches considering their specifications. That's why I said TECHNICALLY.

Switches are about personal preference and that's why there's a wide variety to pick.

Sounds like we agree on the substance of the issue.  But saying "technically" implies an absolute judgement, not an individual or general opinion.

Offline nala

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:30:04 »
Case closed then. Black switches are promoted as gaming just because of marketing issues.

Each switch has it's own feature which may bring advantages or disadvantages to each personal situation.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:34:24 »
I have also heard that blacks, then blues are the cheapest switches to buy in large quantities from Cherry. Cherry makes huge quantity of blacks, as they also are favored heavily by industrial and POS keyboard makers. So is that a wonder they are the most common switch on mass market mx keyboards? What a mystery. You can even see that in retail pricing sometimes, like why the CMStorm blues is often $20 less than browns or reds version.

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 26 August 2012, 22:34:46 »
When I played starcraft 2 with reds I would sometimes accidentally doubletap in very bad situations without noticing it. It happened several times when I was quickly selecting a building to build an expensive unit and hit the unit hotkey twice and hence queue up an additional unit by accidental which results in a lot of resources lost. Since the game is so fast paced you might not notice it and wonder why my resources are so low 10 seconds later when I need to build that critical building . This would never happen with a tactile switch since you would hear the second keypress and cancel the qued unit instantly, and the chance of said mistake happening would be radically lower since you would hear that you selected the building, hear that you pressed the build unit hotkey and then move on. Just an example

Offline vicariouscheese

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 17:25:29 »
Blacks are only considered "the gaming switch" because steelseries was the first company to release a mechanical keyboard marketed towards gamers, and it was black switch only.

Purely marketing.  Progamers do not actually use blacks, except for people who were sponsored by steelseries back when black was the only option on their 6g/7g.  Filcos, das, ducky, etc etc were never marketed as "gaming" keyboards.  Only now with mechanical keyboards becoming established through sc2 and lol are we seeing "gaming" mechanical keyboards that use other switches.

If you look at the rise of sc2, except for teams sponsored by steelseries (like EG), no one used black switches.  All the koreans either had their old school qtsenns or filcos with blues.  Everyone and their mother in league of legends is sponsored by razer so theres like 10billion blackwidows on all the NA teams :P

TL;DR they were only the "gaming" switch because of marketing back when it was the only switch marketed to gamers.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 August 2012, 17:27:37 by vicariouscheese »

Offline davkol

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 17:59:20 »
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 18:05:16 »
I'll stand up for the black switches a bit. I like them because they're smooth, heavy enough for my keyboard style (I get lots of accidental extra keypresses when typing on lighter switches), not excessively noisy, and have a nice solidity to their feel. In arcade-style and FPS games, the nice thing about the blacks is that they're very quick to unpress, which, combined with the smoothness of the linear switch, gives me a feeling of greater precision. RTS games are a slightly different matter, since RTS keyboard actions are more like typing, consisting of many discrete keypresses rather than holding keys down; if you have a linear switch that's the proper weight for your preference, though, where you'll get all and only the keypresses you want just by using your natural, instinctive motion, it doesn't take long to learn to trust them.

The black switches also have a reputation for durability, as suggested by their heavy use in POS and industrial keyboards. High-intensity gaming needs a switch that can take a beating. That's another reason why I went with the MX Black switch...devices that aren't decently tough tend to have a very short lifespan when in my possession.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 August 2012, 18:09:52 by FoxWolf1 »
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Offline Keyboarder

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 19:02:11 »
If red switches are good for gaming, and mx blues are good for typing... What niche is the mx black useful for?
For the users who are heavy handed and tend to bottom out a lot, mx reds may be too light for them to use on a day to day basis (due to the increased chance of typos and what not). Case in point, the OP may not be one of those heavy handed typists and as such was never used to typing on a switch that required a higher actuation force. Hence, wrist pain and even CTS.

So in response to the original question, black switches, while they may not be right for the OP, some users simply prefer the more heavy and solid feeling of an mx black switch.


Offline adrock

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 19:10:46 »
My next buy will be probably a Poker w/ reds. Tried blacks and they're quite tiring for gaming, as you bottom out like a mother****er. I guess it's probably the switch that takes most time to get used to.

I have a k60 and i bottom out on the reds a lot, but i haven't really determined whether lower actuation force means more bottoming out because less force is required, or if lower force means less bottoming out because less force is being applied.

I'm planning on trying browns as while i really like the reds, i find i miss double taps frequently and have other minor issues because i'm not releasing the keys fully before pressing again, which i'm hoping some tactile feedback will help with.

Offline sth

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 19:12:06 »
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 19:57:33 »
Cherry MX black and red switches are best for gaming along with rubber domes.  We just want to press a button and be done with it.  No clicks or bumps to interrupt us.  In theory, rubber domes would be the best for gaming due to their all or nothing activation.  In reality, they take different forces to press down at different angles and wear out more quickly than Cherry MX, giving a slight edge to Cherry MX switches. 

The choice of red or black switch comes down to individual preferences.  Real men like Cherry MX black because Cherry MX red is weak, limp, and embarrassing to own.  Girly-men and women prefer Cherry MX red due to their weak wrists and dainty fingers.  Cherry MX black feels good to press down, like actual keys, though I wish they took a little more force since I often find myself bottoming out really hard.  MX red switches feel broken in comparison.  For what it's worth I prefer switches in this order, from most to least:  MX black = MX blue > rubber dome > buckling spring > MX red > MX brown
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 August 2012, 20:01:01 by PointyFox »

Offline Sinzz

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 21:19:48 »
Agreeing with FoxWolf1, Cherry MX Blacks are very solid feeling, I've played with the reds and others and they just don't feel as solid. I feel that for an intense gaming moment, slamming down on keys give the Blacks an advantage with their stronger recoil. You can also have your hands ready at any button you want to press without worry of accidental key presses since it does take a bit more force to press down. and the keypresses of the blacks really arent taxing on my fingers, though I am quite the pounder when it comes to my keys (I've since learned how to not bottom out as much).

I don't understand why the Black switches have such a bad reputation. I realize that the other switches are lighter and have more of a tactile feeling when pressed down, but to me, blacks have a very solid feel, which also feels like a "quality" switch as opposed to the lightness and plastic sound of its linear brother, Red. Like the example that likes to be thrown around a lot, its similar to a luxury car door compared to a low end car door. when you close that door, it gives off a more satisfying thud than the hollow sound of a low end car door.
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 27 August 2012, 21:55:18 »
Agree ^

Offline Velma

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 13:27:30 »
but Girly men are sexier! just look at all male models today, theyre all tall slim and girly :) <3. the arnold/bolchevic "strong muscly worker man" ideal is very dated, metro guys get laid more often!

Offline Deekin

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Re: Why are Ch. Blacks considered the "Gaming" switch?
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 13:43:45 »
Once upod a time I was a real man for 8 months and used a keyboard with Mx Black switches, Now I use Mx Red instead and have become a girly man instead. I can only say one thing; god how I love my manboobs!