Author Topic: Rosewill Reds (Read 7723 times)

Rumudiez · « **on:** Tue, 23 October 2012, 14:24:48 »

Rosewill buying season is coming...

Currently on Newegg is one with MX Reds for $79.99 with a free pair of speakers (didn't even notice until checkout price confirmation!) and with the promo code EMCJNHG247 it's down to $63.99. That's the lowest price I've ever seen for a full size Costar board I'm pretty sure!

Board is here Rosewill RK-9000RE (MX Reds)

litster · « **Reply #1 on:** Tue, 23 October 2012, 14:30:47 »

your link has an extra character at the end. Here is the correct link. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201044

Good deal, even if you are only after the switches. I bought one last time for $64 and harvested the switches for a KMAC.

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 01:18:00 »

The price has dropped to $60.00 shipped (it's no longer $79.99 but $74.99).

litster · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 02:44:00 »

Even better!

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 14:45:33 »

Quote from: litster on Wed, 24 October 2012, 02:44:00

Even better!

Definitely. I'll be sure to get my brother to pick one of these up for himself when he gets home later. I think most people think of these keyboards as **** because of Newegg reviews but I think they are on par with Filco (supposedly the loose mini USB connector issue was fixed with 2012 batches).

litster · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 15:15:06 »

Rosewill's PCB is definitely not as good as Filco's. Rosewill's PCB is single-sided of so-so quality with through-hole components. Filco's components are surface-mounted on a high-quality dual-sided PCB. But both work as they are intended.

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 15:17:37 »

Quote from: litster on Wed, 24 October 2012, 15:15:06

Rosewill's PCB is definitely not as good as Filco's. Rosewill's PCB is single-sided of so-so quality with through-hole components. Filco's components are surface-mounted on a high-quality dual-sided PCB. But both work as they are intended.

I don't ever open boards or do enough research to know such things. Thank you for your wise insight, good sir!

WhiteFireDragon · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 17:00:28 »

Quote from: VesperSAINT on Wed, 24 October 2012, 15:17:37

Quote from: litster on Wed, 24 October 2012, 15:15:06
Rosewill's PCB is definitely not as good as Filco's. Rosewill's PCB is single-sided of so-so quality with through-hole components. Filco's components are surface-mounted on a high-quality dual-sided PCB. But both work as they are intended.

I don't ever open boards or do enough research to know such things. Thank you for your wise insight, good sir!

Single sided PCB doesn't scream lower quality. Keyboard PCB is huge, there's no need to go dual sided with so much space to mount diodes and route traces. Filco is also single sided for the most part, and does NOT have SMD components. All the diodes in both Rosewill and Filco are through holes. Only SMD parts are on the daughter board that has the controller, and both FIlco and Rosewill has these. Only real difference I see is that Filco has a tighter solder job at all the connections, and they implement a better way to attach the USB cable/port. Video of a review and the internals of a Rosewill, and pics of the PCB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncB-rvAgrLQ#t=11m20s

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 17:07:32 »

Quote from: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 24 October 2012, 17:00:28

Quote from: VesperSAINT on Wed, 24 October 2012, 15:17:37
Quote from: litster on Wed, 24 October 2012, 15:15:06
Rosewill's PCB is definitely not as good as Filco's. Rosewill's PCB is single-sided of so-so quality with through-hole components. Filco's components are surface-mounted on a high-quality dual-sided PCB. But both work as they are intended.

I don't ever open boards or do enough research to know such things. Thank you for your wise insight, good sir!

Single sided PCB doesn't scream lower quality. Keyboard PCB is huge, there's no need to go dual sided with so much space to mount diodes and route traces. Filco is also single sided for the most part, and does NOT have SMD components. All the diodes in both Rosewill and Filco are through holes. Only SMD parts are on the daughter board that has the controller, and both FIlco and Rosewill has these. Only real difference I see is that Filco has a tighter solder job at all the connections, and they implement a better way to attach the USB cable/port. Video of a review and the internals of a Rosewill, and pics of the PCB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncB-rvAgrLQ#t=11m20s

Man, I'm learning a lot today. Lol! Thanks for your guidance, guys. Really appreciate it. Now to go do some research (even though I've already owned the boards for months/years).

Oh btw, you just got yourself a new subscriber

I wonder if there's a thread where everyone posts their youtube accounts... I'd like to subscribe to all of them.

alaricljs · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 17:12:48 »

How old is that Filco WFD? I know the upgrade to the 87 key Filcos was 2layer PCB... did they decide not to go that route for 104key boards?

litster · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 24 October 2012, 18:25:59 »

Quote from: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 24 October 2012, 17:00:28

Single sided PCB doesn't scream lower quality.

Quote from: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 24 October 2012, 17:00:28

Filco is also single sided for the most part, and does NOT have SMD components. All the diodes in both Rosewill and Filco are through holes.

You decide if it is a better PCB or not, or if has SMD components or not.

dorkvader · « **Reply #11 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 12:35:26 »

To be honest, the soldering of the controller daughterboard connectors is not that great at all.

litster · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 12:56:50 »

Yeah, kind of blobby. I should take a look at my other Filcos.

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 13:51:18 »

My brother ordered one of these last night

I can only see win at this price point.

Can you mod a RK-9000 RE to ergo clears??? Lately, I've really wanted to try out ergo clears... I assume that because these already have the red springs, I would just need clear switches.

WhiteFireDragon · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 15:21:54 »

Quote from: litster on Wed, 24 October 2012, 18:25:59

Quote from: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 24 October 2012, 17:00:28
Single sided PCB doesn't scream lower quality.

Filco is also single sided for the most part, and does NOT have SMD components. All the diodes in both Rosewill and Filco are through holes.

http://i.imgur.com/d0s9i.jpg

You decide if it is a better PCB or not, or if has SMD components or not.

All the Filco TKL that I have, and the ones that I've worked with for other people have all been single-sided. Here is a pic I just took a few min ago. I'm too lazy to desolder all the switches just to get a pic of the other side of the PCB, but you can clearly see that all the diodes in the pic is through-hole, not SMD. You can see all the copper traces on there too, and if you follow them, you can conclude there is no need for traces on the other side.

So again, single-side vs double-side PCB doesn't correlate to quality. It's a matter of manufacturing cost because single side is less expensive to do. Btw, the solder job near the duaghter board connection is not consistent on every pin in your pic. The soldering on my filco revision looks more consistent around that area. So let me know if your double-sided board is still somehow higher quality

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 15:49:53 »

Looks like I've unintentionally started a light debate

litster · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:02:05 »

Quote from: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 25 October 2012, 15:21:54

All the Filco TKL that I have, and the ones that I've worked with for other people have all been single-sided. Here is a pic I just took a few min ago. I'm too lazy to desolder all the switches just to get a pic of the other side of the PCB, but you can clearly see that all the diodes in the pic is through-hole, not SMD. You can see all the copper traces on there too, and if you follow them, you can conclude there is no need for traces on the other side.

So again, single-side vs double-side PCB doesn't correlate to quality. It's a matter of manufacturing cost because single side is less expensive to do. Btw, the solder job near the duaghter board connection is not consistent on every pin in your pic. The soldering on my filco revision looks more consistent around that area. So let me know if your double-sided board is still somehow higher quality

Show Image

You are so right. Clearly SMD Filco PCBs do not exist. And certainly only the Filcos you have seen ever existed.

muguts · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:02:33 »

tempted to get those reds, god damn this site

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:11:54 »

Quote from: muguts on Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:02:33

tempted to get those reds, god damn this site

I know what you mean, man... but the funny thing is, you may curse it now, but you'll never regret coming here. Lol! I have yet to feel buyer's remorse from this site... My poor wallet though.

WhiteFireDragon · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 20:06:02 »

Quote from: litster on Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:02:05

You are so right. Clearly SMD Filco PCBs do not exist. And certainly only the Filcos you have seen ever existed.

And likewise, you also assumed only Filcos with double sided PCB and SMD diodes existed. But it looks we we both confirmed that there are 2 very different PCB revisions. This isn't my point though. You still haven't explained why double sided PCBs and SMD diodes equates to a higher quality board. SMD parts are beneficial where space is extremely limited because of the PCB form factor. Same goes for double sided PCBs. They allow for a more dense PCB. But with a keyboard so big, there are no advantages in going SMD and double sided. From a business standpoint, it doesn't make sense for them to pay more for a double sided PCB when it's not needed. The Filco from the pic is a Majestouch2, bought last year. The one I just worked on a few weeks ago was bought like last month. Litster, how old is that Filco?

I'm not debating anything, I'm just pointing out that newer Filcos, Rosewills, and CM quickfires are nearly the same in respect to the PCBs.

Rumudiez · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 21:38:13 »

Ended up buying one. 104 red switches and a debatable quality PCB incoming...

dorkvader · « **Reply #21 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 23:34:05 »

I don't think vias make a PCB inferior. It's hard to see, but the soldering on WFD's looks better.

Point is: These CMstorm QFR's are great KB's The PCB is good quality, but you might want to clean the flux before taking pictures. Thanks for posting this, Rumudiez, and I am sure you'll enjoy it.

Rumudiez · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 26 October 2012, 16:50:44 »

I'm not really concerned about the quality: being approved by Costar is a big enough bonus to the expected board at this price range that I'm quite happy to have it incoming.

I also love the red plate and am going to see what I can do about a cover for the controller cut-out in the top right so I can use it nicely without the full casing.

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #23 on:** Sat, 27 October 2012, 04:59:36 »

Quote from: dante on Sat, 27 October 2012, 01:10:51

weird .. looks like all the rosewill mechanical keyboards have been removed from newegg.

Maybe they had enough of the RMAs?

Huh??? I still see all of them...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=100006690&isNodeId=1&Description=rk-9000&x=0&y=0

VesperSAINT · « **Reply #24 on:** Sat, 27 October 2012, 14:45:13 »

Quote from: dante on Sat, 27 October 2012, 11:07:18

btw: there are still complaints in Sept/Oct about the usb connector failing.

newegg look like idiots for not *****ing enough to get this fixed. It's been a solid year since this defect has gone on!

Oh gawd... Just went I lowered my red flags

Rumudiez · « **Reply #25 on:** Sat, 27 October 2012, 16:35:43 »

Hmm, I'll check the manufacturing date when I get it and see if it's the same design as older boards--can anyone help me out with what the older boards look like down under? I'll make a new thread in keyboards sometime late next week or weekend, depending on how much time I have during the week.

bpiphany · « **Reply #26 on:** Tue, 01 January 2013, 16:34:36 »

Oh yes, a battle thread =) I just want to pitch in that I never saw a Filco with SMD diodes either. But I didn't see that many either. The funny thing is that I have PCBs from two full size Filcos, one of which is the yellow/green single sided, and one blue double sided, and they are almost identical in routing and layout. The only thing they did was to replace the jumpers with traces on the top side. I still think that the newer PCBs are of a higher quality material though.

Sorry to resurface this. I was looking for images of the quickfire insides...

TotalChaos · « **Reply #27 on:** Tue, 01 January 2013, 17:01:55 »

@ Rumudiez

Does ur Rosewill still work?

Mine had a wobbly connector right out of the box but worked fine.

But on day 26 the keyboard started dying off and on. Dropping chars. Flashing lights. Doing all kinds of weird things. Complete crap. Mine was manufactured in 2012.

litster · « **Reply #28 on:** Wed, 02 January 2013, 12:10:25 »

Sorry to hear that your Rosewill died a premature death. I would not be surprised it died because of its single-sided PCB.

If you have soldered and desoldered switches from keyboards, you will know that switches have to be inserted through the mounting plate into the PCB properly so the load of your typing force is spread evenly on the mounting plate and the PCB, and not on the switch solder joints. With a two-sided PCB, solder can flow through holes and deposit onto both sides of the PCB, locking the switches in place. So even if a switch is not fully flushed to the PCB, there is more than just the trace on the PCB to take your typing force.

Imagine if a switch is soldered on just very slightly tilted. On a single-side PCB, a solder joint would take a lot of the force as you type (instead of the plate and the PCB), and pretty soon that joint would start to push and lift the trace on the bottom of the PCB off, and create a bad connection. And bad things happen.

Still a good price to get cheap new switches though.

A picture from Diatec Filco's site:

TotalChaos · « **Reply #29 on:** Wed, 02 January 2013, 12:31:31 »

My Rosewill has defective USB connector. Switches are ok so far.

Do u think single layer PCB causes USB connector failure?
How could they have prevented this catastrophe?

litster · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 02 January 2013, 12:37:44 »

If it is the USB connector, then a dual-layer PCB wouldn't help. USB connectors are inherently not designed very durably.

TotalChaos · « **Reply #31 on:** Wed, 02 January 2013, 14:26:49 »

How come the USB connectors on my computer never break?

alaricljs · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 02 January 2013, 15:07:17 »

That's a port cluster that is engineered completely different from a single connector.

bpiphany · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 02 January 2013, 15:14:14 »

I'd say the mini-USB connectors are pretty sturdily soldered down. At least the through hole ones..

litster · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 02 January 2013, 15:39:56 »

I opened up my Rosewill carcass again and looked at the mini USB connector on the PCB. It is the same connector used in ErgoDox and KMACs (looks very similar, could be a different part and different quality).

The problem on your Rosewill could be just bad luck, too much pulling force from the cable, bad workmanship, bad design, or low quality of the PCB. My desoldered Rosewill PCB is noticeably more flexible than a blank Phantom PCB that I have here.

TotalChaos · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 02 January 2013, 19:01:24 »

Quote from: litster on Wed, 02 January 2013, 15:39:56

The problem on your Rosewill could be just bad luck,

I would happily believe that it was bad luck if not for the fact that so many other ppl have had the exact same problem for over 1 year.

I think the ppl with working Rosewills just have good luck. After 1 to 3 years their luck will run out.

News:

Author Topic: Rosewill Reds (Read 7723 times)