Author Topic: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!  (Read 48666 times)

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Offline danielucf

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #100 on: Sun, 25 November 2012, 17:10:35 »
I know the Titanium sandblasted was the best looking of the bunch in my opinion, but not sure if silver sandblasted would look as good. The picture where it just looked like a block of silver but a keycap was pretty nice too, and shiny. So I guess either of those I personally would be happy with.
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Offline i488

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #101 on: Sun, 25 November 2012, 23:18:39 »
Beautiful. In for sure

Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #102 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 10:59:11 »
The master key(s) will never be used on a board, they're sole purpose is to provide a void in a silicone mould.  The tube on the top is there to provide a path for wax to flow (it's a sprue) the hot wax will be injected under pressure into the mould giving replica wax keys.  Wax keys and sprue are then attached to a tree and cast.  I use tube rather than wire as it's lighter and therefore cheaper.

I'll be making four test keys so I can either test different finishes on them, or provide testers on bits of sheet.

Offline The_Ed

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #103 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 11:18:51 »
Try out that hallmarked strip thing on 1 of the 4 test keys to see if it interferes when pressing it. Soldering the strip on shouldn't mess up the color on the outside should it?

For the titanium spacebars there was a choice of shiny, brushed, or sandblasted. I will be going with standard shiny for this as well, but it can't hurt your sales to carry the 3 standard finishes. But since you are making 4 test keys what would the fourth trial finish be I wonder...

EDIT: Are 2 of them going to be fine, and 2 of them sterling?
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Offline tsangan

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 11:40:32 »
Try out that hallmarked strip thing on 1 of the 4 test keys to see if it interferes when pressing it. Soldering the strip on shouldn't mess up the color on the outside should it?

For the titanium spacebars there was a choice of shiny, brushed, or sandblasted. I will be going with standard shiny for this as well, but it can't hurt your sales to carry the 3 standard finishes. But since you are making 4 test keys what would the fourth trial finish be I wonder...

EDIT: Are 2 of them going to be fine, and 2 of them sterling?
Something the_Ed and I can agree on! Go shiny!
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Offline The_Ed

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 12:14:06 »
Is shiny the only thing we have agreed on in the last few months? I think it may be...

Hang on, then why did you order 2 brushed?...
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Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #106 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 15:40:10 »
The strip won't interfere with the switch, the silver cap is .6mm sheet, probably use .5mm sheet for the strip and a standard Cherry cap has a thickness of around 1.5mm so it's not a bother.  As to discolouration, the whole key will go horrible like the picture above, then I clean and polish it and it's shiny again.  It's really not a problem.

Stopping to think about it, I'll probably just make two testers, one of each profile, and one sterling, one fine that'll tell me everything I need to know.  The 2x2 was a bit of a brain fart!

Offline The_Ed

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 15:58:52 »
Sounds good on the strip interference and discoloration then. I just wish they could be cherry thickness for the 'thock' they make...

With only 2 testers you'll only be able to try 2 finishes. So there won't be any pics to garner interest in other finishes but the 2. - Ah... I just remembered you have pics of the first shiny prototype, so the 2 testers could be brushed and sandblasted.

When's the current estimate on starting the mass production? 2 weeks? A month? Next year? I don't really know how long the casting process takes to set up.
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Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #108 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 16:28:56 »
Ha!  These make a thicker deeper sound than Cherry keys - I guess material makes as big or a bigger difference than thickness... sounds more like a backspace key than a 1x1 key, but still not quite - having said that, it's sound of the OEM cap I'm commenting upon - haven't tested the Cherry cap, and now can't till the testing stage!  Standard Cherry thickness is an option I suppose, but it'll be about twice the cost with little/no perceivable gain, except that it'll make your switches very light.  About 14g lighter.  Can't use standard OEM's as they're too thin walled, so it'll need fabricating regardless.

Yup, took me days to realise that!  Not that I've been thinking about it full time...

Currently my schedule looks something like this:

Fabricating OEM master two weeks?
Production of moulds two days.
Casting turnaround for testers week to ten days.

if good then next elce redo from start.

Ordering ten days to a month?

Casting turnaround week to ten days.
Hallmarking turnaround week to twenty days.
Papering an hour to two hours per cap.
Colouring half an hour to an hour per cap. / blasting 5 minutes per cap / brushed 10 minutes per cap

Offline iMav

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[IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #109 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 17:17:23 »
If these become a reality, I am definitely interested in buying some. 

Personally, I think the stamping on the back ADDS to the appeal!

Offline tsangan

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[IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #110 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 17:23:22 »
If these become a reality, I am definitely interested in buying some. 

Personally, I think the stamping on the back ADDS to the appeal!
iMav and I are on the same page here
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Offline The_Ed

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #111 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 19:07:35 »
There are always the stiffer cherry switches. I had to use a black to support my titanium spacebar. If you make cherry thickness an option for these, I'll have a thick one. But that would require you making another master right? It looks like these are gonna have as many customizations as the titanium spacebars.

Cherry profile, cherry thickness, shiny finish, and a hallmarked strip soldered to the inside. But a hallmarked strip on the inside of a cherry thickness key may actually interfere when pressing if the gap is less than half a millimeter... I'll have to look how much room there is later.

Hallmarking is an imperfection in the eyes of an Aspie. I don't know what you guys are seeing for it to add to the appeal...
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Offline mkawa

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #112 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 23:08:57 »
the hallmarking has a freaking castle on it. how can you not love it

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Offline Shadovved

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #113 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 23:29:19 »
The hallmarking makes you feel you really own a hunk of silver on your keyboard :D

How can you not want that?

Offline The_Ed

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #114 on: Mon, 26 November 2012, 23:46:12 »


NT's just don't understand...
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Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #115 on: Tue, 27 November 2012, 05:31:59 »
Thick cap won't require a fabricated master, take one Cherry cap, take a bit of dowel, blue-tack them together instant master.  And don't worry about the Hallmark, for a stealth thick cap I'd solder it onto the "ceiling" of the cap - problem solved.  Because silver is stronger than plastic, there's no need for the internal bracing so there's plenty of space up there to play with.

The reason I've been fabricating thinner walled masters is twofold, first the issue of mass vs spring force, I'm sure that not everyone is comfortable doing a spring swap.  And secondly as a matter of accessibility, the thinner, lighter caps will obviously cost less, making them within budget for a larger group.  It would be (as you can see) far easier for me to just make thick walled caps, but it would/will about double the cost (tbc) and would (I guess) push it outside what I'd be willing to pay for a silver cap - hence, thinner walls.

Silver is around twice the SG of titanium, and about four times the SG of aluminium.  It really does make a big difference to the heft of the thing.

I like the mark too, but I can understand The_Ed's stance, which is why I'm' going to lengths to accommodate.  There's also the possibility of have it running vertically (but still with a horizontal orientation to each mark) though it would have to be at an edge, couldn't be centred due to the stem - this is what's called a spot mark.  In a standard mark they use two punches, my makers mark (that's the AP) and their assay mark, which has everything else on one punch (and involves cutting a new punch each year as the last mark is the date mark).  For a spot mark, they use five individual punches, it's a couple(?  Must check!) of quid more, but it can look effective on the right piece.  The caps are basically square so could aesthetically take either orientation, something like the kyanite pendants I make demand spot marking, but most pieces work best with a standard mark.

Why do I keep suggesting alternatives‽

Offline Shadovved

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #116 on: Tue, 27 November 2012, 05:43:52 »
I think your current cap is good enough.............

Just that perhaps we can change the composition (shouldnt be too hard, can it?) of the material :D

Offline The_Ed

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #117 on: Tue, 27 November 2012, 18:37:55 »
So I can have - cherry profile, cherry thickness, shiny finish, and a hallmarked strip soldered to the ceiling (which wouldn't interfere with anything)? Sign me up! It's cool that you can make full cherry thickness without much effort.
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 November 2012, 18:39:31 by The_Ed »
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Offline danielucf

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #118 on: Tue, 27 November 2012, 19:38:16 »
So not taking into account the work and craftsmanship, what would just the material cost for a thin versus thick keycap?
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #119 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 04:35:41 »
Please post here when the auction for the prototype cap goes up.

Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #120 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 06:34:28 »
danielucf, that's a really dificult one to answer, and I should really just grasefully ignore the question about cost, but it's not the sort of thing I'd do.  Besides - bulion prices are right there, so it's not like I'm keeping a seceret.  Sterling silver casting grain can be had for £0.69/g at the moment - thin walled cherry cap will be around 6.5g so £4.85, add to that a gram of wax at £0.06/g, a flask (half/quater kilo) of investment at £100/kg which'll do a hundred or so caps, and the cost of melting the metal... makes me sound like a rip-off merchent expecting somewhere in the region of £30/cap?  Let me explain...

I get my casting done in Birmingham, they have machines I can't afford (circa £20,000 each!) and the expertiese to produce perfect casts every time.  So there's postage down to, and back up from Birmingham; and they charge(d last time I had work done, cost varies depending upon the bulion price) £1.25/g giving us £8.12 per cap.  Only it'll be more than that, as they don't trim the sprue of exactly, just snip it with shears, so there'll probablyl be an extra gram or two which I can only get scrap value back for, but I won't be charging you for that.  And they're not ripping me (or anyone) off, they have the initial cost of the machines to recoop, the cost of labour, the cost of electricity, investment, and the metal its self.

When I get caps back from them, I have to cut off the remainder of the sprue, file the top smooth, paper all five sides, and pre-polish.

Then there's postage down to Edinburgh, the fee of £2.50-ish per Hallmark, and the postage back up.  Rasing the per/cap cost to £10.50-ish + four lots of postage £x split between y number of caps.

Finally there's finishing as noted above.

Thin cap 6.5g, thick cap 15g.  Approximatley I won't know the exact weights until I get testers made.

Oh and all values quoted are ex.VAT at 20%!  Jewellery trade always works ex.VAT... drives me nuts!

Offline Batmann

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #121 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 06:47:16 »
looks like a very fair price, I'm even more in!

It's not above the average price we've seen lately and it is much more valuable to me
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 November 2012, 07:15:08 by Batmann »

Offline Shadovved

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #122 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 06:48:19 »
Your silver caps are the way to go!

The real "future's" cap!

Offline feng

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #123 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 08:23:58 »
Would love to have one with Cherry profile. It looks awesome!

Offline danielucf

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #124 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 10:22:13 »
You answered way more than my question which is very nice of you to do so. I guess I should have just looked up silver prices, but I wasn't sure how much the thin versus thick would weigh. I didn't mean to insinuate you were charging too much or anything, I think what ever you charge will be  more than fair for your time and work. I'm eagerly waiting for the group buy to start :D
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Offline el2k

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #125 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 11:54:18 »
Smart mate. Can't wait for these to come out.
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Offline Shadovved

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #126 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 11:55:15 »
GO ASURA!

Less talking and answering question and more crafting  :p :p :p :p

Offline mkawa

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #127 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 11:56:11 »
just fyi folks, the auction will probably go up this weekend and run through the week. i have various real life fires to put out until then.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #128 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 13:20:28 »
I gathered you were just curious danielucf, but I'm sure that if I'd just said £4.85 then someone would have been aghast at my estimated pricing, and I'd have had to explain the whole process anyway.  In case it hasn't been noted already, I'm a bit of a wordy person.  That, and I'm really enjoying my keyboard  ;D

...Less talking and answering question and more crafting...

So I go back to work in... 15h, first I have a meeting with a guy from the water board, we've got a leak, so I'll be doing some DIY plumbing - worry not, I'm competent if not qualified and it's just throwing a ball-valve in front of a cistern.  Sort/display/stash £1,000 of fossils into their respective homes, re-stick a smd led strip inside a haberdashery cabinet using a stronger glue this time.  Then I'll finally get into the workshop... to tidy my bench, strip my bench, install a new wax injector (no more microwaving wax and injecting with a syringe) reinstate the rest of my tools/equipment that got moved and ultimately have my lunch.

After all that I'll get to work on the OEM cap, I expect to get it marked out, cut and chamfered.  Maybe a bit of soldering, but the top definitely won't be going on.  It's possible that I'll get the moulds made this weekend, but most unlikely, I foresee it being next Thu/Fri and posting the wax testers down on Sat.  Once they come back and get finished I'll post up an ordering topic and form.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #129 on: Wed, 28 November 2012, 17:28:38 »
just fyi folks, the auction will probably go up this weekend and run through the week. i have various real life fires to put out until then.
thanks mkawa if you  could please post here when you start the auction it would be great
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 November 2012, 17:31:49 by TheProfosist »

Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
« Reply #130 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 16:50:30 »
So in a fit of madness I've decided to do all five major cap types simultaneously - I had planned to do them all, but there was going to be much staggering involved.  However, I decided that would be too much trouble to keep track of which was happening when, who's turn it was next, which profile's I'd done for which switch...  So instead of just the two cap types, there's also going to be Alps (cheep ebay board on it's way to me) BucklingSpring (to be borrowed from my brother) and Topre (kindly loaned by longweight)

What this does is push the time scale back a bit... it's not as bad as it first appears as I work some extra hours in December anyway, but it'll still most likely be mid/late January that the final products will ship, assuming I don't wear my finger tips down to the bone polishing them all up... need to get me an army of gnomes!

Offline Alessandro

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #131 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 16:52:34 »
Brilliant!
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #132 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 01:06:50 »
Great to hear! and cat wait for the auction for the original.

Offline Halverson

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #133 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 01:08:21 »
Amazing that you're doing all the profiles! Now I'll have to choose between them all which of my boards deserves some silver :)

Offline DrSchlock

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #134 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 14:06:29 »
Interested

Offline Dgsbllx

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #135 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 14:09:16 »
Definitely interested. Got to gets me some bling.

Offline rekanise

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #136 on: Mon, 03 December 2012, 05:34:58 »
interested!

Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #137 on: Mon, 03 December 2012, 13:45:05 »
Minor update.  .6mm sheet is too thin, so I'll have to get some .8mm sheet in (not one of my standard thickness's) OEM is just about working (I butchered an ABS cap) just need to tweak the mould a little bit to get all four pins for the stem working.

I'll start work on the thick Cherry mould tomorrow.

Offline cwang1004

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #138 on: Mon, 03 December 2012, 15:25:43 »
I'm a collector. So you know how much I love original and personal works. Especially good ones like yours.

Absolutely very interested.
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Offline The_Ed

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #139 on: Mon, 03 December 2012, 16:15:50 »
I'll start work on the thick Cherry mould tomorrow.

Cool, thanks for making full cherry thickness an option. Hopefully fine silver turns out to be strong enough for the stem.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #140 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 07:21:45 »
So wheres that proto key id like to get my hand on that thing.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #141 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 08:10:11 »
sorry, completely forgot to do this. i'll put the ad up today with the subpar pictures from before. maybe i'll flickr them up to make the pics look better

HDR!!!!

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Offline Halverson

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[IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #142 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 08:23:43 »
So wheres that proto key id like to get my hand on that thing.

Prof loves da metals :)

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #143 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 08:29:43 »
So wheres that proto key id like to get my hand on that thing.

Prof loves da metals :)
hell yea i do, its now my favorite to type on.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #144 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 11:56:39 »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline RinSewand

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #145 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 18:28:43 »
Looking forward to them being available :) Beautiful work!

Offline Glissant

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #146 on: Sun, 09 December 2012, 13:39:34 »
Like I mentioned in the auction thread, I would love to have at least one of these as a pendant piece. I'm a bit of a jewelry guy from time to time, and that would be an amazing thing for me to own.

Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #147 on: Sun, 09 December 2012, 15:22:23 »
Very minor update;

I don't know what LWs Topre caps are made from, but bluetack doesn't stick well at all!  Had to through a mould away as the cap fell of the stem and I'm having to redo it with extra-tacky bluetack (chewing-gum [don't worry LW I'll wash it really well before I post it back down]) and it's curing as we speak.

Order to the bullion dealer for 0.8mm sheet (and a load of other stuff) goes in tomorrow and once it gets in I can start work on the thin walled Cherry profile cap.

Alps board arrived yesterday and it looks like I'll be able to produce caps for it without too much bother.

When my brother finishes work for the semester I'll be getting a couple of BS keys to play with.



Turning them into a pendant would be no problem at all, just a few quid more for the bale - would it be a fixed bale or a dangling bale?  Cuff links are another option, tie-pins, rings, whatever... probably to big for earrings, but it's all a matter of taste.

Offline Alessandro

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #148 on: Sun, 09 December 2012, 15:25:55 »
Just bought another suit today, you really have my attention with keycap cufflinks!
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Offline asura

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Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
« Reply #149 on: Sun, 09 December 2012, 16:55:48 »
Due to the size of the caps they would have to be for single rather than double cuffs.  And I'm of the opinion that chain and T-bar would be better than a hinged link due to the depth of the cap.