What keyboard are you using right now?

[Korbin]

But, sometimes security settings don't let you change your keyboard layout...

Ah true.... I guess that has never been an issue for me since I'm a software developer.

[vils]

For the moment I'm using a worthless HP (KU-0316) keyboard at work. But to be honest all keyboards feels like crap compared to my HHKB2 Pro I use at home.

/Vils

[FunkTrooper]

For the moment I'm using a worthless HP (KU-0316) keyboard at work. But to be honest all keyboards feels like crap compared to my HHKB2 Pro I use at home.
/Vils

dammit, you're all making me envious with your nice shiny HHKB2 Pros. oh how i want one. anyway, i'm using a Saitek GK200.  As rubber dome keyboards go, it's actually rather good.  it's certainly better than any other such keyboard i've ever used.  but it's still not mechanical.

[xsphat]

To be accurate, and I'm shocked iMav hasn't pointed this out, capacitive switching mechanisms are not mechanical. Neither is the Model M's buckling springs.

That being said, read this forum and you'll find those are probably the two most popular keyboards here and they both rock.

I'm back on the Northgate, which is a mechanical keyboard. I think I've boiled my favs down to these two keyboards.

[bigpook]

Help me out here. As some of you know I mainly use buckling spring keyboards, either from IBM or Unicomp. I just got a DasIII which I am using right now. Aside from the average rubber dome / scissor switch keyboards that I use from day to day for work.
How does the HHKB Pro 2 fit in comparison to the above mentioned?

I am hesitant to lay out the money to buy one and not have it meet my expectations.

The Model M's have lots of tactile feed back, that is from the key press to the return, along with that clicky noise. You really feel like your typing on a Model M.
The DasIII is a different animal altogether, it has a lighter click and less resistance on the down stroke. I mentioned before that it was dainty, which was a poor choice of words. Light action would be a better way to describe it. It takes way less force to get the key to go and feels more linear than the Model M.

So how does the HHKB Pro 2 compare in this situation?

[xsphat]

The Topre switch is totally different than the above mentioned. It doesn't click but it is wholeheartedly satisfying to type on. It is tactile and light to the touch, but unlike any other switch I've tried so I really don't have a base to compare it to for you.

The whole thing about the HHKB series is the layout. Once you use it and get used to it, it really is the only layout that makes sense anymore.

I tell everyone to just buy it. I've not heard complaints from those who've bought it and the only time you see a used one on eBay is when the seller bought another one. Just buy one, you'll like it.

[bigpook]

I have a HHKB lite which I used for quite a bit before I went to the BS keyboards. I liked the small form factor alot. It made using the mouse on the right side bearable. But its rubber dome, its ok for what it is , but not ideal. You mention the layout as being key, and in a way it is. But it doesn't click, yet you say it is satisfying.
damn.

You know if I could just walk into a store and touch one, I would know in a minute if it was for me or not.
I am not much of gambler, I typically lose,  but everyone here at geekhack speaks so highly of it. That alone makes me want to get one.

I know there is warehouses full of them, but they are halfway around the globe.

[xsphat]

You know if I could just walk into a store and touch one ...

Well, if you're ever in Kyoto ...

[bigpook]

Yeah, I go there often for the sushi. Maybe next time I am there..... sigh. Not likely soon, if ever. : )

[xsphat]

If you like the layout, buy one. If you hate it, you could sell it here, but you won't hate it.

[sashomasho]

Yeah, I go there often for the sushi.

And tonight's humor prize goes to .... bigpook, sorry xsphat

Anyway bigpook, buy this keyboard, you will not regret it... I listened to the guys in the forum, and all I can say - this keyboard became my precious (although I type on my ibm atm, but this is because I'm too lazy and tired to take my HHKB from my bag, in which I carry it almost everywhere I go)... The feel is not so light as the blue cherries, there is something in it which resembles the model m's switch, without the click of course, it may still be lighter, but without sacrificing even a bit from the tactile feel. The register point comes earlier I think, at least my model m registers the click at about 3/4 of the way down, while in the HHKB it comes at 2/5 these  numbers may be inaccurate...

[bigpook]

Hey , thanks for the feedback. Its back on my list to save for. I am thinking between my model m's, dasIII and then the HHKB I will be fully rounded out.
I am looking forward to it.

[xsphat]

Good man Pook, which model are you gonna get?

[bigpook]

Black with lettering is the one I will get. Which one do you have?

[xsphat]

Black with lettering, copycat.

[003]

I'm using a Deck Legend. It sorely needs to be modded though, after which it will be the best keyboard on the face of this earth. What needs to be done:
-Add weight
-Create cable strain relief
-Affix better rubber feet
-Replace black Cherry switches with blue Cherry switches

[bigpook]

I'm using a Deck Legend. It sorely needs to be modded though, after which it will be the best keyboard on the face of this earth. What needs to be done:
-Add weight
-Create cable strain relief
-Affix better rubber feet
-Replace black Cherry switches with blue Cherry switches

adding weight: if there is room inside the case you could fasten some kind of metal bar.

cable strain relief shouldn't be too hard, maybe radio shack has some part that could be used.

rubber feet are easy to find.

replace the switches?  Now that may be a project : )

[bigpook]

Black with lettering, copycat.

lol, yeah, but white is not an option. and while I have a unicomp keyboard with no letters I think it is more of a novelty. The letters come in handy after 3 or 4 beers though.

[bigpook]

I went to the deck keyboard site since I was curious. It says the board has a metal back plate. I would think that would add a fair amount of weight. They say they use quality keyswitches but don't mention which ones.

So which glowing LED's do you have?

[003]

Mine has a plastic backplate... I may need to contact them about this. I got the red version to match my mouse. The switches being used now are black cherries.

I have the PS/2 version and it's crazy, it literally has unlimited key rollover, with any combination of keys on the matrix, and the lettering on the keys will NEVER wear off.

EDIT:
For whatever reason, they only have the metal bottom plate on their 82 and 21-key keyboards. Not sure why.

[bigpook]

Mine has a plastic backplate... I may need to contact them about this. I got the red version to match my mouse. The switches being used now are black cherries.

I have the PS/2 version and it's crazy, it literally has unlimited key rollover, with any combination of keys on the matrix, and the lettering on the keys will NEVER wear off.

EDIT:
For whatever reason, they only have the metal bottom plate on their 82 and 21-key keyboards. Not sure why.

The metal back plate would be cool, if only for the added weight. The web site says the lettering uses a sublimated negative printing process which drives the ink into the plastic keycaps at 525°f

I suppose thats one way of making it permanent. cool stuff.

[xsphat]

Look into them, the one the 003 bought is one I thought about and why I spent so much time on the Cherry blacks in the SMK88. I just can't stand them so the Deck and Gigabyte and all the others out there are out because the black switches are the most common and they suck the worst. Life is cruel sometimes.

[bigpook]

Don't know, I am not so happy with the cherry blue switches and they click, the browns and blacks don't click but are similar, right?.
I am back on my model m spacesaver for now.  The blue cherries are too light and not clicky enough for me. Damn, that board didn't even make it a week. lol, anyone want a dasIII?

[xsphat]

Thanks, but no.

[003]

I'm sending my Das III back -- can't stand the smudging.

The black cherries are terrible. They are linear, and in theory should be better for gaming, but I was doing better on the DK III in games than with the Legend. However, the positive aspects of the Legend warrant going to the trouble of swapping the switches for me.

Anyway, the black cherries are worse than some rubber dome switches. For example, the old Dell QuietKey keyboards.

[bigpook]

Sorry xsphat, didn't mean to sound like I was pointing that your way.

I will probably let my wife have a try on it, if she likes it she can keep it. Otherwise, I will put it on the shelf until I feel the need to try it out again.

I am thinking that nothing compares to a BS keyboard, purely my opinion.

[xsphat]

Pook, check your inbox.

003, sorry you are yet another person who hates those Cherry blacks. My wife got the SMK88 I reviewed in the wiki and she likes it "because it's white." I don't think people like us are the intended users of that damned Cherry black switch.

[iMav]

. . .and I'm shocked iMav hasn't pointed this out. . .

I just returned home from a weekend trip to Mankato, MN (Vikings training camp).  

[bigpook]

003

my dasIII has smudges around the arrow keys, the little felt cloth does a good job of cleaning them, but over time I think the shiny will scratch and lose its luster. I wish Das would have went with a matte finish. Its still a good board though, I am just not adapting well to the blue cherry switches.

[003]

I rather like the blue cherries. And I can not get over the fact that the Das III smudges like an iPod and has to be constantly wiped with a special cloth. Also, the chassis feels ...brittle... which is most noticeable by the feel of typing on the keys. It feels "dainty" almost, where as my G80-3000 with the same blue cherries feels more robust when typing.

It is extremely unfortunate that it does not have n-key rollover support, otherwise it would be my saving grace. However, I expect my Deck Legend to be even better than my G80-3000 when I complete my mods. But first I need to return my Das III and get my money back so I will have enough money to buy new blue cherries

[bigpook]

Shiny finishes tend to get that way. Thats why I don't particularly prefer them. But the DasIII was a chance to try out the blue cherry switches.
The action is very light and the click is not as satisfying. I know that sounds wacked.  I am talking about a keyboard like its some kind of fine wine. But I am back on my model m for now, and liking it too.

I think I will let the das rest for a bit, I will get back to it in the future.

[003]

Don't let your experience with the Das III ruin your image of the blue cherries. My G80-3000 which has the same blue cherries feels so much better to type on than the Das III does.

[bhtooefr]

I don't remember the model (although I'm asking the owner,) but I got to type away at some no-name AT-layout keyboard with (I think, anyway - couldn't pull a keycap) blue Cherry MXes. Keys didn't wiggle, so it probably wasn't Alps, and it sounded just like the audio clips of keyboards with Cherry blues on here.

The tactile response was somewhat underwhelming, although I kinda liked it, and it was VERY light. Which I like. Not sure I like it enough to drop $130 on a Das, especially right now, and especially because it lacks a pointing stick, but I'd like to spend more time with a Cherry blue keyboard.

Unfortunately, the owner of that board wouldn't sell it to me, despite not liking Cherries.

[bigpook]

Thats how I feel about the dasIII. The blue cherries have a slight click to them, but take away the click, and all you have left is a keystroke with very little feel. Yes, they are very light, at least to me, but they are not satisfying.

[003]

Jeez why do so many of you guys want/use a pointing stick on the keyboard? Why not just use a mouse? If anything a small laptop one?

[ashort]

Jeez why do so many of you guys want/use a pointing stick on the keyboard? Why not just use a mouse? If anything a small laptop one?

I don't go for the trackpoint thingy but the issue is less about desk space and more about having the pointer where your fingers already are:  right in the middle of the keyboard.  

I do not like a "small laptop mouse" for the same reason I don't like trackpads or trackpoints:  finger cramps.   I use a trackball at home, and a full size BT mouse on the go.

[xsphat]

Ever since I bought this mouse, nothing else will do.

[alpslover]

I rather like the blue cherries. And I can not get over the fact that the Das III smudges like an iPod and has to be constantly wiped with a special cloth. Also, the chassis feels ...brittle... which is most noticeable by the feel of typing on the keys. It feels "dainty" almost, where as my G80-3000 with the same blue cherries feels more robust when typing.

It is extremely unfortunate that it does not have n-key rollover support, otherwise it would be my saving grace.

it has 12 key rollover, is that not enough?

[003]

it has 12 key rollover, is that not enough?

The G80-3000? No, not really. If you hold down 12 keys on the same row, then yes, but holding down even 3 or 4 keys in random areas on the matrix does not work, and unfortunately I need to be able to do that for playing games. If you mean the Das III -- I know. My issues with it are the dainty feel to the keys and smudges.

[Korbin]

Don't know, I am not so happy with the cherry blue switches and they click, the browns and blacks don't click but are similar, right?.
I am back on my model m spacesaver for now.  The blue cherries are too light and not clicky enough for me. Damn, that board didn't even make it a week. lol, anyone want a dasIII?

Yeah the browns the blacks don't click. Since you don't like the blues and your prefered switch is Buckle Springs are you sure you want to get the HHKB?

To me, the HHKB feels closer (definately not the same) to the black switch than any other switch. There is no click (not even a "tactile" click like the browns) and it has a very light key press pressure (45 grams). This is even lighter than cherry blues. As you can see on cherry's website http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm the blue switch has a key press pressure of 1.8 oz which is 51 grams. By comparison most BS boards have a key press pressure of about 80 grams.

I would hate to see you get a 250 dollar board and not like it. That being said I still think the HHKB is a great board worth every penny. IMO the light pressure is why I like the HHKB over BS and membrane (the 2 just seem completely opposite.... that's why I asked).

[xsphat]

Does anyone know that the keypress is on Alps whites? For whatever reason, I think it is around 65 grams, but that could be nonsense.

[xsphat]

OOp, scratch that - it's on CVT's Avant keyboard comparison page - Alps whites take 70 grams.

I like the Alps the best but the HHKB Pro 2 is great. It doesn't click or anything and it takes a lot less force to actuate, but there is something really satisfying about typing on it. Topre switch is easily my second place.

[bigpook]

Yeah the browns the blacks don't click. Since you don't like the blues and your prefered switch is Buckle Springs are you sure you want to get the HHKB?

To me, the HHKB feels closer (definately not the same) to the black switch than any other switch. There is no click (not even a "tactile" click like the browns) and it has a very light key press pressure (45 grams). This is even lighter than cherry blues. As you can see on cherry's website http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm the blue switch has a key press pressure of 1.8 oz which is 51 grams. By comparison most BS boards have a key press pressure of about 80 grams.

I would hate to see you get a 250 dollar board and not like it. That being said I still think the HHKB is a great board worth every penny. IMO the light pressure is why I like the HHKB over BS and membrane (the 2 just seem completely opposite.... that's why I asked).

That makes two of us : )

It would be unpleasant to spend that much and then be disappointed. Everyone has their personal preferences, but what I am learning
is that one persons's ideal keyboard may not necessarily be yours.

[ashort]

Ever since I bought this mouse, nothing else will do.

OW!  MY EYES!  MY EYES!!!!

[bigpook]

Ever since I bought this mouse, nothing else will do.

yeah man! That would make a great gaming mouse.

[itlnstln]

Ever since I bought this mouse, nothing else will do.

Thanks for sharing...  I guess the cat's out of the bag.

I shouldn't have clicked on the link.  You know what they say...  Curiosity killed the Cat!

I've got a million of 'em, folks!  I'll be here all week!


fail.

[bhtooefr]

Jeez why do so many of you guys want/use a pointing stick on the keyboard? Why not just use a mouse? If anything a small laptop one?

Because I want to keep my hands on the keyboard at all times.

Also, with a laptop, I often don't have the desk space to have the laptop, a keyboard, and a mouse. Really, I want an IBM Model M2 with Windows keys, SpaceSaver layout, and a TrackPoint - that'd be an ideal keyboard to have for a laptop bag keyboard. (Model M2 = the cheapened version of the M that IBM made for the PS/1, but it's not curved and has a much smaller chassis (as small as most cheap rubber dome keyboards, so it takes less space.)

[iMav]

Jeez why do so many of you guys want/use a pointing stick on the keyboard? Why not just use a mouse? If anything a small laptop one?

I'm guessing that most people who love the trackpoints are current or former passionate Thinkpad owners.  

Once you get used to the trackpoint, nothing else will do.  

Personally, I've been using a HHKB Pro and a Logitech Trackman Marble more than anything else...but every time I move my hand off the keyboard to the Trackman, I miss not having a trackpoint.

[Ulysses31]

iMav, are you by any chance a Mitsubishi fan?  The avatar makes me curious.

[iMav]

iMav, are you by any chance a Mitsubishi fan?  The avatar makes me curious.

I figured I'd swap the avatar out to see if anyone noticed.