Author Topic: Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.  (Read 26038 times)

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Offline bigpook

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There are so many opinions here at geekhack. Each keyboard, each switch, have their pro's and con's.

Here are my 3 favorite keyboards.

1.)  As of right now that honor goes to the IBM model M mini.
          It is well built, has buckling springs and does not have a num pad.
          The con's for me are that the particular mini I have does not work
          so well with my KVM. Its really just an annoyance, but it always
          happens at the worst possible time : (
         
2.)  Second choice goes to the Unicomp space saver.
          While it does have a numpad, that is only because Unicomp does not
          offer a keyboard that is buckling spring without a numpad.
          The con here is the numpad. While the form factor could be smaller
          this keyboard is almost perfect.


3.)  My third choice is the classic Model M. The 1391401. Most of us here      
          have one. It is a true classic.
          The con here, like above is the numpad and the massive size. Its not a
          problem if you have the desk space but could be a problem for some.
          I like to think of this keyboard as the Buick of keyboards.
          An electra-glide with tail fins and lots of chrome : )



The problem with the above list is that they are all BS keyboards. I know I need to broaden my horizons. And I have tried. But so far these are the best examples going for me.

My dream keyboard, which will probably never be made, would be buckling spring with a HHKB form factor ( If not the HHKB form factor  then perhaps a reworked model m mini design.) The idea is to keep it small.

 I would have the small form factor, no numpad, and the BS keys that are time tested, mature and proven. As an added bonus, the phantom keyboard manufacturer would offer a range of springs to choose from, you could have a light, medium and heavy spring. Throw in some usb ports, detachable cord( usb or ps2) and call it done. Having a choice of springs would be so cool.
Throw in some USB ports while you are at it, what the heck, I am just dreaming.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline bhtooefr

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Ugh, this one's difficult. There aren't three keyboards that I'd consider my favorites, because my horizons aren't broad enough... and my two favorites, they trade off differently. I USE the Unicomp more because of the pointing stick and Windows keys, so that'll be #1, I guess.

#1: Unicomp EnduraPro 104 USB
Pros: USB, Windows keys (nice for a Mac,) pointing stick.
Cons: Key feel could be a bit crisper, pointing stick could be a bit better.

#2: 1993 1391401
Pros: Best. Feeling. Keyboard. I've ever typed on.
Cons: No Windows keys, no pointing stick, PS/2.

Dream keyboard: IBM Model M2, sans numpad, with Windows keys, a TrackPoint IV, and USB. Oh, and make the thing feel as close to a lightly-sprung 1391401 as possible. That thing would be the ultimate laptop bag keyboard.

Offline meltie

  • Posts: 80
1. IBM Model M 1390133 from 1986 (feels better than all the younger Model Ms I own)
2. Cherry G80-3000 clicky, with blue switches
3. Cherry eVolution Stream (notebook-like keys with scissor switches)

Since there are a lot of keyboards I'd like to own its hard to name my Dream Keyboard. It would be a Das Keyboard III or a Model M-13 in black or a G80-3000 in black with blue switches and USB.

meltie

Offline graywolf

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Who has three decent keyboards?

1. Model M
2. nothing I currently own
3. Ditto 2

Dream keyboard? Funny you should ask. How about just the typewriter section of a Model M with basically the HHKB keylay out but with two function keys where the Ctrl keys are now, so you can hold a function key and type with the other hand (altenative would be a two stroke function like you can set Thinkpads for, touch the function key and the next keypress is a function). I have in the past remapped ctrl-I, ctrl-j, ctrl-k, and ctrl-l as curser keys and like that pretty well. A trackpoint would be a nice option. And the membrane switches could be converted to capacitive switches. I would also like for the springs to be interchangeable so one could have the exact combination of pressure, feedback, and sound one liked. Since sometimes the cap lock is handy, I would set it up as function+shift. I have always preferred the big L-shape enter key but I do not see how it would fit on a minimalist keyboard like this, sigh! I would make the keyboard completely remappable so it could be used with just about any language or layout. So, we are talking about the best of three worlds a hybrid of a Model-M and a HHKB, and completely customizable.

Offline iMav

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My top three keyboards (that I own):

1. HHKB Pro 2.  It's actually a hybrid between a black Pro 2 and a white Pro (1)...but all the meaningful parts are from the Pro 2.  Superior layout, great portability, built-in USB hub, great feel.  There's nothing else like it.



2. Model M 84-key spacesaver (assembled Aug 2007 by Unicomp).  Hate numpads, love buckling springs.  This one has the two-piece keys (separate keycaps), which is pretty rare for the Model M minis.



3. Unicomp Mighty Mouse.  Short throw, decent key layout, nice integrated trackpoint (better than the Endurapro), has a passthrough PS/2 port so you can plug a PS/2 external mouse into it, uses what I call buckling rubber sleeves which I think are a blast to type on.  




I love the blue-stemmed Cherry switches on my SMK-88...however the short right shift key keeps it from being in my top 3.  The Cherry 4100's are fun to type on, but again, I have the same issue with their short right shift keys.  All my other keyboards have numpads, so I can't in good conscious put them in my top 3.  ;)

As far as a dream keyboard...the HHKB Pro 2 is pretty darned close.  I think a blue Cherry version with optional trackpoint would be pretty nice.  One with buckling springs would be nice as well.  I am so hooked on the HHKB layout now that even if the new mighty mouse came out, it would not displace my HHKB as my daily driver.  (but I would certainly have to own one)

Offline lowpoly

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I only use my HHKB Pro. Love the form factor. So that would be #1 for now.

I think I'd put the Cherry ErgoPlus on #2. The few moments I played with it were very promising.

#3 would be my Toshiba mod. If it had a decent case.

Quote from: iMav;7799
I think a blue Cherry version with optional trackpoint would be pretty nice.
^^^ My current project. Not sure if the Trackpoint will fit though.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline xsphat

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My favorite keyboards:

1. Macally MK96.
Pros: The Alps clickys are so nice to type on, way lighter than the Model M, way smaller, the goofy layout isn't that bad, and it's so damn loud.
Cons: It's so damn loud.

My second favorite keyboard is the Model M Mini, for now it's the gray logo but the blue one is catching up fast as I break it in.
Pros: Mad street cred. buckling springs are very nice, and the build quality, while not as good as a 1391401, is really good. And I don't bottom out nearly as much.
Cons: Personal — I am not yet used to the force it takes to type. Give me a bit and we'll talk more about this.

Offline xsphat

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And my dream keyboard is the Topre 86. M mini layout, it would remap as easy as the Filco and looks so good and feels like the HHKB Pros. Gets me moist.

Offline Waves77

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Quote from: xsphat;7838
Pros: Mad street cred.


:rolleyes:
Current collection:
\'91 Model M (1391401), \'93 1391401, \'91 Model M (industrial 1394946), Dell AT101W, Apple Extended II (M3501), Cherry G84-4100, Filco FKB 104M/EB, Macally 96, Das III Pro, HHKB Pro 2.

Offline Waves77

  • Posts: 174
Tough choice... I might update it after I get to see what the fuzz about the HHKB Pro is all about, but for now:

1) Filco FKB 104M/EB (brown cherries). AWESOME feeling keyswitches, can be bought new (unlike model M's), very nice quality components all around, not too loud, so can be used in pretty much any setting. Did I say I love those switches? ;)

2) Model M. Build like a tank, will outlive any other keyboard I own, even being 20 years older than anything new. If you type fast you can build a wall of sound that keep people away when you are working (big plus).  Can be found for quite cheap (I would say the best dollar quality ratio by far compared to most other options). Highly functional despite not being the best looking one of the bunch :)

3) Probably the Macally 96 - very nice feel to those alps, or my dell at101w.

My dream keyboard... a keyboard without frills (no usb ports), detachable usb cable (why oh why does only the HHKB pro have it?), attention to quality control (little details like soldering on the inside - looking at you Scorpius ;)). To be sold with different switches so I could get one with BS and one with browns. Easy to take apart and clean (like a model M).

The Filco is closest to perfection for now. My favorite all around switches (for different moods and different tasks), love the feel of the enclosure (kinda like the exterior of thinkpads), has a numpad. Only complaints are non-detachable cable and brightness of the leds (see my review).
Current collection:
\'91 Model M (1391401), \'93 1391401, \'91 Model M (industrial 1394946), Dell AT101W, Apple Extended II (M3501), Cherry G84-4100, Filco FKB 104M/EB, Macally 96, Das III Pro, HHKB Pro 2.

Offline Chuque

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 01:43:36 »
I too am a big fan of the Model M BS keys.  I have tried a few others and the only thing that comes close are the really old Alps.

so
1.) My Model M 84-key spacesaver
2.) My Model M 1391401 (that I use at the office much to the joy of my co-workers)

I have yet to try out a the HHKB Pro 2 but the layout looks downright enticing.  I would also love to get my hands on the Model M15  if for no other reason that being a south paw having the arrows on the "right" side would be lovely.

As far as my Dream keyboard I would like something like the model M Spacesaver but wireless/Bluetooth  in black w/ black lettering like the HHKB Pro 2

Offline Korbin

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 03:25:03 »
1) HHKB Pro 2 - Key layout is genious. The control key position alone has brought a great deal of efficiency to my everyday program writing ( given the number of shorcut keys that I use everyday).
Con: You have to use the shift-F10 to get the context key in windows instead of having one key like on standard boards.

2) Filco tenkeyless FKBN87M - Brown swiches without the useless num pad.

3)For now it would have to be the board that seems like I'm the only one that likes - SteelSeries 7G. While cherry blacks aren't that great for regular typing they are great for games that require rapid key sucessive key presses. It's a good switch for actuating slowly and holding down (running in games) instead of the fast "finger flick" that is typical when typing.
Con: Not necessarily good for all around use like the browns IMO.

Dream: HHKB with a context menu key :P
Keyboards: Nyquist, Ergodox, Levinson

Offline xsphat

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 03:38:20 »
I'm glad you're happy with the 7G, and I'm glad you found a use for the Cherry blacks. I found the only way I could stand them for regular typing was if I just hammered the keys bottoming out hard, but what the hell does that accomplish?

The switch is really popular, so I knew there was something to it I totally missed.

Offline sashomasho

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 06:49:13 »
this question should be asked again after 6-12 months, so that we will be able to see how the trends are then.

for now my list is topped by hhkb pro: the small factor, the keyfeel, all in this piece of plastic screams "i'm too sexy..."
cons: i need 5 to 10 minutes of typing on it in the morning to be able to use pgup/pgdown and home/end without making errors (not much of a problem in the afternoon though :) )

2. filco 104m/eb - i like the brown cherries and the quality build, it's solid and delicate at the same time....
cons: too big to stay on my desk...

3. macally 96 and 1391401, and i know that these do not go along very well but i like them for being loud, bad and clicky.
cons: macally has a strange layout, and my ibm is far too big to be used as an everyday workhorse.

my dream keyboard stays on a korean store shelf, come on topre, gives us a  realforce spacesaver with us/english layout...

Offline Ulysses31

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 07:19:26 »
You'd think they'd get right on making an english layout version, with the potential huge market available to them.  I have no decent keyboards so I can't really participate in this thread *slaps head*.  In decision-making limbo until I can actually try out some of these which seems pretty unlikely at the moment.

Offline graywolf

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 09:25:22 »
Quote from: Chuque;7852
I would also love to get my hands on the Model M15  if for no other reason that being a south paw having the arrows on the "right" side would be lovely.

As a righty, I think you have that backwards. The standard layout is actually a left-handed keyboard. The so-called left-handed keyboards are right handed. After all if you are a typist you want to keep your master hand on the typing keys. Try a little experiment (all of you) with you hands on the keyboard close your eyes, then remove you master hand and put it back, then do it with the other hand. If you are at all like me the master fumbles just a bit, but the other hand goes exactly into place. I think that  is because the other hand references to the master hand, but the master hand has to work without reference.

Also having a short move to your pointing device is nice instead of having to reach all the way across the control and number pads.

About the only ones who I can imagine liking the usual layout, other than just being used to it, are accountants and bookkeepers, they push the keyboard to the far left of the desk and use their left hand on the ten-key while using a pencil in their right hand. To the rest of us it is just a nuisance.

Offline xsphat

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 11:01:57 »
Quote from: Ulysses31;7889
In decision-making limbo until I can actually try out some of these which seems pretty unlikely at the moment.

Until the Geekhack keyboard conference.

Offline itlnstln

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 11:12:01 »
1) Model M (fullsize)
2) My other Model M :)
3) Northgate Evolution (very close second)

My dream kb is the Model M15.  I wouldn't change a thing (maybe if it were made by IBM instead of Lexmark, but that might be splitting hairs).


Offline iMav

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 14:50:42 »
Quote from: xsphat;7905
Until the Geekhack keyboard conference.


Where is that this year?  I forget . . .

(keep ashort away from the punch bowl this time!)

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #19 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 17:06:23 »
:)

Offline FunkTrooper

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 19:21:39 »
Dammit, I don't have any vaguely respactable keyboards.

Dream keyboard: well that would have to be the HHKB2 Pro. But I can't afford that. I think I'll have to settle for a Unicomp Customizer, when I get the money.  Not that there's anything wrong with one of those -- I would love to have a buckling spring keyboard.  I just don't like the size.

Offline ashort

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 25 August 2008, 19:32:27 »
Quote from: iMav;7911
Where is that this year?  I forget . . .

(keep ashort away from the punch bowl this time!)
WHAT?  What did I do that I don't remember THIS time?
Andrew
{ KBC Poker - brown | Filco Majestouch - brown | Dell AT101W | Cherry G84-4100 }

Offline Chuque

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 26 August 2008, 00:18:08 »
Quote from: graywolf;7895
As a righty, I think you have that backwards. The standard layout is actually a left-handed keyboard.


I use a M-mini at home and I have plenty of desk space for my full size M at work. (Only because I haven't got a 2nd mini) I also Mouse left handed. so I am very comfortable with "re-homing" my master hand.  I have tried over the years to start mousing with my right hand and it never works out.  I couldn't imagine useing a "left handed keyboard" having to deal with all that extra stuff in the way like all the "normal"  people do every day.

Also , the M15 .. is just  pretty cool

Offline Eclairz

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 26 August 2008, 15:10:16 »
Hmmm well my favourite keyboards is

Cherry G80-3000 Clicky blues
Macally MK96 white alps
Cherry G80-3000 browns/blue (modified by myself)

The thing is if we ever do ask this question in a years time, how many keyboards will you buy by then, I for one am only saving for the hhkb pro2 and may take up all my keyboard budget for the next two years
Lenovo ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard
RealForce 45g UK 88UB
FILCO Majestouch TenKeyPad

Offline bigpook

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 26 August 2008, 15:15:42 »
Thats a good point, we can revisit this in 6 months or whatever, as things do change. Its just a snapshot of the moment, and its interesting to see where people are at right now. The future, of course, is yet to be determined : )
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline ashort

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 26 August 2008, 15:22:43 »
  • Cherry G84-4100 - very decent portable keyboard.
  • MacAlly Mk86 - bad layout.  ick.  Great switches, really annoys my wife.  =-D
  • SMK-88 with black cherries.  I use it because the layout is tolerable and I use it imagining it had brown cherries instead of black.

I am wishing for a Modular Mac Keyboard from DSI when it comes out, but I am afraid that the layout will be my achilles on that one, like it was with the blue cherried smk-88.  Also considering an SMK-85 for a portable board, or (if it ever comes out) a BS Mighty Mouse.  If it doesn't come out, the BS will come to mean something other than Buckling Spring.
Andrew
{ KBC Poker - brown | Filco Majestouch - brown | Dell AT101W | Cherry G84-4100 }

Offline itlnstln

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 26 August 2008, 15:38:03 »
Quote
The thing is if we ever do ask this question in a years time, how many keyboards will you buy by then, I for one am only saving for the hhkb pro2 and may take up all my keyboard budget for the next two years


Since there is a dearth of mechanical, ergonomic 'boards, I am probably going to buy another 1-2 Evolutions, and call it quits (unless a company offers a compelling product, but I doubt that is going to happen).


Offline xsphat

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 26 August 2008, 16:59:40 »
From the way this thread is going, it looks like it will still be active in six months.

Offline itlnstln

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 26 August 2008, 17:11:52 »
Quote from: xsphat;7969
From the way this thread is going, it looks like it will still be active in six months.


Yeah, this one might need a sticky... but not StickyKeys.

*rimshot*

Fail.


Offline Korbin

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 28 August 2008, 09:28:17 »
Quote from: xsphat;7880
I'm glad you're happy with the 7G, and I'm glad you found a use for the Cherry blacks. I found the only way I could stand them for regular typing was if I just hammered the keys bottoming out hard, but what the hell does that accomplish?

The switch is really popular, so I knew there was something to it I totally missed.


Well, the reasons that I mentioned why blacks would be good still applies to the HHKB and the browns. Personally, I think the browns are a better option for gaming. But blacks are more popular than any other switch.... especially with a name like steelseries (big into gaming) making a board with them.

However, as most of us americans know, getting a hold of browns or the HHKB is little more difficult and you have to know where to look (pretty tough if you aren't a geekhack member :P). The keyboards that I own that has black switches were all bought before I got my HHKB's and filco board.
Keyboards: Nyquist, Ergodox, Levinson

Offline lowpoly

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 28 August 2008, 10:05:15 »
Quote
But blacks are more popular than any other switch.... especially with a name like steelseries (big into gaming) making a board with them
The black switch is popular because it is marketed as Cherry's standard switch. If you visit your dentist here you'll most likely see a Cherry keyboard at the reception desk. The black switch is the one with the least potential problems. Less accidental typing because the spring is stronger than the brown's. No noise that anybody could complain about and highest life cycle.

Steelkeys are a niche market compared to offices, health sector, authorities, etc.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline Korbin

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 28 August 2008, 10:26:40 »
Quote from: sofa king;8014
The black switch is popular because it is marketed as Cherry's standard switch. If you visit your dentist here you'll most likely see a Cherry keyboard at the reception desk. The black switch is the one with the least potential problems. Less accidental typing because the spring is stronger than the brown's. No noise that anybody could complain about and highest life cycle.

Steelkeys are a niche market compared to offices, health sector, authorities, etc.


Actually I was refering to thier popularity based on gaming. Deck, SteelSeries, Raptor.... all gaming based boards. But yeah, I see your point.
Keyboards: Nyquist, Ergodox, Levinson

Offline graywolf

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 28 August 2008, 11:12:54 »
Quote from: Korbin;8018
Actually I was refering to thier popularity based on gaming. Deck, SteelSeries, Raptor.... all gaming based boards. But yeah, I see your point.


I think that is the real market for linear keyswitches, when you think of it gamers do not care about the feel all they care is that when they bang them hard they work. In fact I think you have to be a touch typist with a bit of experience on various keyboards to care much about what a key feels like.

A kind of interesting aside, decades back when I did some COBOL there were exactly two of us in the shop who could type. We would type out our code to hand to the keypunch girls (for some strange unknown reason all the keypunch operators were women), all the rest of the programmers scribbled their code on code sheets. Needless to say the keypunch girls loved us best.

Offline Waves77

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 28 August 2008, 12:04:08 »
Quote from: graywolf;8021
We would type out our code to hand to the keypunch girls (for some strange unknown reason all the keypunch operators were women),


Proof that not everything in IT has evolved for the better. At least there were girls around back then (at least more than now) ;)

Cobol was actually the first proper language I learned after basic when I was a teenager, developed a video store management system in it... good times :)
Current collection:
\'91 Model M (1391401), \'93 1391401, \'91 Model M (industrial 1394946), Dell AT101W, Apple Extended II (M3501), Cherry G84-4100, Filco FKB 104M/EB, Macally 96, Das III Pro, HHKB Pro 2.

Offline bigpook

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where I am at now
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 24 November 2008, 19:17:54 »
My top three have changed, and its only been a few months.

I am thinking right now, its the HHKB which is probably the best keyboard going right now but right behind it would be the filco tenless. Number 3 is my unicomp spacesaver. The unicomp would be number one if not for the numpad.

I have a model m mini which is near perfection but I have issues with it when used with a KVM.

I am liking the filco tenless as the layout allows my hands to move, I have to reach for the arrow keys and the up/down keys. This is where the HHKB shines though as you don't leave the home row. But after many hours my hands start to cramp up.
The filco and unicomp/ibm mini allow my hands to move a bit which relieves the cramping. YMMV of course.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline iMav

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 24 November 2008, 23:56:57 »
Quote from: bigpook;12308
I am thinking right now, its the HHKB which is probably the best keyboard going right now but right behind it would be the filco tenless. Number 3 is my unicomp spacesaver. The unicomp would be number one if not for the numpad.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...those Filco 'boards are great!  As far as fit and finish are concerned, they are tops.

My top three has changed as well.

1 - HHKB Pro 2 - My HHKB 'board stays at number one.  Probably the best compliment I can give to this keyboard is that I don't even realize it is there when I use it.  I am one with the computer; there is nothing about the keyboard that is distracting...it draws no attention to itself; it simply provides the perfect interface between me and my computer.

2 - IBM M4-1 - I've been using one of these on my work laptop for a while now and really like the feel of them.  Very old school Thinkpad-ish.  Short throw and very firm.  I actually have three of these that I recently got NIB (and have gotten rid of the two used ones I had to share the M4-1 experience with others).  :)  

3 - Model M mini - Still love my Model M mini.  Although, it hasn't gotten much use lately.  

Basically, I just swapped 2 and 3 due to my current obsession with all things M4-1.  It will likely pass...but for now I'm really having fun with them.

Offline Qwertyuiop

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 00:08:37 »
I haven't used enough that I like to have a top three; my favorite is a full-size Model M. Unlike many here, I like numeric keypads and actually use them. :o I guess I prefer my 1391401 with the black/gray label over later versions, but I don't find the differences in feel that noticable after a few minutes.

Like iMav, I like the feel of the M4-1. I used to have one of those but it had a key that stuck and I didn't know how to get it fixed so I sold it. This was my only experience with a trackpoint; I don't know if mine was typical but I didn't like using that at all. I guess the Unicomp Mighty Mite without the trackpoint would be better for me.

I bought a Filco with the brown switches but found that I hated it. I don't like the way the keys wobble a bit and something about the nature of typing on it aggravated my CTS; my accuracy went down as well.

The Apple Adjustable mentioned in the sig I've never actually used as I've never gotten around to getting an iMate so I can use it.

I wouldn't mind trying a Topre or some of the others popular here, but I'm unwilling to spend so much on another keyboard that I may well not like or be able to use.


Many years ago my brother had an IBM L40sx laptop. At the time I loved the feel of its keyboard; while it was many years later when I got the M4-1, I believe it was the same as that on the L40sx. A picture of that laptop is on this page: http://www.almeida.de/edocs/ibml40sxe.htm
several Model M\'s, Apple Adjustable Keyboard

Offline iMav

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 00:18:48 »
Quote from: Qwertyuiop;12322
my favorite is a full-size Model M. Unlike many here, I like numeric keypads and actually use them.
That's a good preference as you can always find decent ones on eBay for cheap.  Additionally, you've got Unicomp's line of full-sized Model M's as well.  

Quote from: Qwertyuiop;12322
Like iMav, I like the feel of the M4-1. I used to have one of those but it had a key that stuck and I didn't know how to get it fixed so I sold it. This was my only experience with a trackpoint; I don't know if mine was typical but I didn't like using that at all. I guess the Unicomp Mighty Mite without the trackpoint would be better for me.
Unicomp also has the separate numpads available as well, so there is always that option for you.  

Quote from: Qwertyuiop;12322
I bought a Filco with the brown switches but found that I hated it. I don't like the way the keys wobble a bit and something about the nature of typing on it aggravated my CTS; my accuracy went down as well.
Interesting.  I've never heard anyone characterize the Cherry keys a wobbly.  The Alps keys are definitely susceptible  as they get warn in...but the "cross hairs" interface between the keycap and Cherry switch seems to be keep wobble to a minimum.

Offline xsphat

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 01:32:11 »
My top three are the same :eek:

Check my sig.

Offline bhtooefr

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 03:51:50 »
Myself, I found that the trick to the TrackPoint is to crank the pointer speed and sensitivity to the max. :) Then, it actually becomes easier to use. Flick it across the screen (well, on 1400x1050, you don't so much flick it as hold it hard for a second,) or give light pressure for precise movements.

(Of course, the TrackPoint II won't let you crank sensitivity up...)

Offline Bluemercury

  • Posts: 328
Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 04:54:43 »
Quote from: iMav;7799
My top three keyboards (that I own):

1. HHKB Pro 2.  It's actually a hybrid between a black Pro 2 and a white Pro (1)...but all the meaningful parts are from the Pro 2.  Superior layout, great portability, built-in USB hub, great feel.  There's nothing else like it.

Show Image


2. Model M 84-key spacesaver (assembled Aug 2007 by Unicomp).  Hate numpads, love buckling springs.  This one has the two-piece keys (separate keycaps), which is pretty rare for the Model M minis.

Show Image


3. Unicomp Mighty Mouse.  Short throw, decent key layout, nice integrated trackpoint (better than the Endurapro), has a passthrough PS/2 port so you can plug a PS/2 external mouse into it, uses what I call buckling rubber sleeves which I think are a blast to type on.  

Show Image



I love the blue-stemmed Cherry switches on my SMK-88...however the short right shift key keeps it from being in my top 3.  The Cherry 4100's are fun to type on, but again, I have the same issue with their short right shift keys.  All my other keyboards have numpads, so I can't in good conscious put them in my top 3.  ;)

As far as a dream keyboard...the HHKB Pro 2 is pretty darned close.  I think a blue Cherry version with optional trackpoint would be pretty nice.  One with buckling springs would be nice as well.  I am so hooked on the HHKB layout now that even if the new mighty mouse came out, it would not displace my HHKB as my daily driver.  (but I would certainly have to own one)



That HHKP2 looks wicked, how does the HHKP1 compares??any photos of the original?
Collection:
Das Keyboard II
Model M5-2
Model M5-1(considering selling this one)
Cherry G80-3000LCMPO with black switches
Cherry G80-5000HAMPO (Brown switches)
McAlly96
HHKP2 BNx2

Offline iMav

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 05:07:41 »
Quote from: Bluemercury;12348
That HHKP2 looks wicked, how does the HHKP1 compares??any photos of the original?

Check it

(disregard xsphat's broken image links...he knows how much I hate that!!)   ;)

Here are some more pics of both 'boards before the conversion.  HHKB owners/fans might want to check out the entire thread as well.

Offline Qwertyuiop

  • Posts: 32
Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 25 November 2008, 23:49:32 »
Quote from: iMav;12323
That's a good preference as you can always find decent ones on eBay for cheap.  Additionally, you've got Unicomp's line of full-sized Model M's as well.
Indeed they're the easiest to find. I wish I had bought a Model M mini when Unicomp still had them available a few years ago to have one of those as well.

Quote from: iMav;12323
Interesting.  I've never heard anyone characterize the Cherry keys a wobbly.  The Alps keys are definitely susceptible  as they get warn in...but the "cross hairs" interface between the keycap and Cherry switch seems to be keep wobble to a minimum.
That's how they seemed to me, compared to the buckling spring keys anyway. It wasn't so much wobble during the travel of pressing the keys, as how much I could wiggle them with just my fingers resting on them. Perhaps it was some other issue instead and that's just what I thought it was.

I think my biggest issue with the trackpoint was how stiff it was to press. I can't remember now if I tried speeding it up, though I suspect I wouldn't prefer that as I always turn off all the acceleration stuff for mice. I primarily use a small Wacom tablet with a pen though some mice are ok with me.
several Model M\'s, Apple Adjustable Keyboard

Offline bhtooefr

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 06:19:19 »
If the things were wobbly compared to buckling spring keys... holy crap. BS keys are some of the wobbliest that I've used, and Alps keys are nothing compared to that. There must have been something wrong with your keycaps or something...

(I don't mind it at all, it's not like they wobble all that much.)

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 26 November 2008, 06:28:41 »
I'm on my ErgoPlus since a couple of days, using it instead of the HHKB. I think I'm a lot faster with the ErgoPlus.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline megarat

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 28 November 2008, 18:48:54 »
My top three (the order is tenuous, like ordering your favorite children):

(1) The keyboard that stood the test of time for me was the Silicon Graphics model 9500801 and 041-0136-001.  These are of the Indigo/Crimson/Onyx line.  Original unsimplified white Alps in there; not rubber-dampened; heavy, quiet, very lovely to type on.  An under-appreciated classic.  Alas, these keyboards have a proprietary interface, which limits their portability.  The differences between the two models are (as far as I know) the color:  the 9500801 is beige, and the 041-0136-001 is granite.  The 9500801 may have different switches, but I doubt it.

(1.5) The original Apple IIgs keyboard (a.k.a. Apple Desktop Bus keyboard A9M0330).  While my first interest in computer keyboards stems from coveting anything with actual keys, back when I had a Timex-Sinclair 1000 (membrane hell), this was the first keyboard that made me sit up and really take notice.  I list this under (1) because it also has Alps inside, but I never fell in love with the layout.

(2) Model M Mini.  I like small keyboards and buckling springs are sweet, and a worthy challenger to the unsimplified white Alps.  Nuff said.  If Unicomp made a mini form factor BS keyboard in USB, I would buy one just because.  Possibly even two, and make them my main boards.

(3)  HHKB Pro 2.  I just bought a backup, plus extra keycaps to create a custom color scheme.  I think it looks pretty sweet.  (Photos are forthcoming, post-holiday.  I'll also put the remaining keycaps on the marketplace, in case anyone is interested.)  The more I use this keyboard, the more I think its function-derived layout is a work of genius.  That said, the Topre switches haven't stood the test of time (they make my hands tired), and the "Unix" layout (specifically the remote upper-right location of the "\"/"|" key) can be irritating.

Dream keyboard:  HHKB 2 with BS or white Alps and a standard US layout.  Another nuisance with the HHKB 2 is the (by default) single Fn key, so if I was designing the HHKB 3, I would probably add a few keys on the bottom row, to fill out the modifier set.  And I would make it heavier, with more robust feet, to hold its ground better.
« Last Edit: Sat, 20 June 2009, 16:05:29 by megarat »

Home/Work:  Custom Filco FKBN87Z/EB and SGI 041-0136-001 chimera (original white ALPS, not simplified, rubber-dampened)
Gaming:  Wolfking Warrior with custom-colored layout, HHKB Lite 2 (Rubber dome)

Offline qk6339zmdm

  • Posts: 19
IBM - before buckling springs
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 01 December 2008, 00:46:44 »
I've used and really like the model M but the keyboards IBM made before PCs may have been even better.  The ones they made for the Selectric typewriter and the 11 lb. one from the 3278 terminal were really solid.  I wish I'd had the foresight to have kept one from twenty years ago.

Offline lowpoly

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 01 December 2008, 03:51:43 »
Quote from: megarat;12785
I wish it had had a mini-USB jack on the left side as well as the back (for using it with my Powermac), although that's a small quibble.

I have a 90 degree mini usb adapter. It came with my Motorola Razr, I think. The cable goes to the left with that.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline bhtooefr

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Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 01 December 2008, 06:36:51 »
Wasn't the 3278's keyboard one of the first buckling spring keyboards? :confused:

(As well as the 5251, IIRC.)

Offline kodos96

  • Posts: 28
Your top 3 keyboards, and why....and as an added bonus...your dream keyboard.
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 01 December 2008, 14:17:04 »
My top 3 keyboards:

1: ?
2: ?
3: Northgate Omnikey Evolution

My dream keyboard:
Well, it depends on how realistically I'm dreaming. Some basics to get started:

-Quiet, tactile switches
-Ergo split design
-Trackpoint

Those 3 features don't seem like too much to ask for, and would go pretty far towards making me happy, but afaict, don't exist in any keyboard ever made.  So since we're already in the realm of fantasy, let's get a bit more blue-sky with my specs:

-Fully split design (i.e. the two halves are separate units)
-Contoured key layout, i.e. kinesis/maltron, but not quite as dramatic a contour
-Bluetooth (but can also plug in, with detachable USB cable)
-Trackpoint located between H, J and N rather than the standard GHB (or maybe JNM or YUH... somewhere shifted to the righthand side
-Genuine IBM trackpoint, not a clone