Author Topic: Looking for a bit of PCB help  (Read 15890 times)

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Offline Melvang

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Looking for a bit of PCB help
« on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:39:31 »
For those of you who have designed your own PCB's is there anywhere I can get pin layout locations for a Teensy 2.0?  Also looking for free software that would be compatible with Osh Park's website for custom PCB creation.  If someone with some experience with this would be willing do design a very small and very very simple pcb that would also be very awesome.

All it would need to consist of would be a PCB that I could solder a teensy 2.0 to with the supplied pins and have traces going toward the middle of the PCB to solder 22 ga wire to with 4 holes in the corners for attaching to the case with standoffs.
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Offline OldDataHands

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 12:40:13 »
The GNU EDA packages are quite capable...
Some use EagleCAD...

Post a sketch of what you're after...

How does a small solderless breadboard fail to meet your needs?
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9567

For that matter, the teensy itself is basically a breakout board...

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 13:19:05 »
The GNU EDA packages are quite capable...
Some use EagleCAD...

Post a sketch of what you're after...

How does a small solderless breadboard fail to meet your needs?
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9567

For that matter, the teensy itself is basically a breakout board...

To be perfectly honest The reason I don't want to use this is because i don't want it near that large.  And I do not want to have to rely on any sort of adhesive to keep my teensy secured. 

here is what i would like it to look like 
Green = pcb
Orange = solder pads
Black circles = holes for teensy2.0 pins
small white holes = soldering wires for direct wire matrix
large white holes = securing to case via standoffs

27549-0
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Offline OldDataHands

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 18:34:05 »
These should get you started.
View gerbers with gerbv. Edit with geda/pcb.
* gh_teensy_2_breakout.tar.gz (15.32 kB - downloaded 95 times.)
please double check that all holes are in the right places, and are the right diameters before you send to OSHPark...
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 July 2013, 19:01:03 by OldDataHands »

Offline OldDataHands

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 18:50:53 »

27578-0
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 July 2013, 18:57:52 by OldDataHands »

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 19:39:42 »
That is absolutely perfect.  My one question is if the mount holes in the corner will accept a 6-32 screw since I already have standoffs and hardware in that size.  Aside from that question I would assume that this is ready to take to a web based PCB manufacturer.
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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 21:29:21 »
Would it be cheaper to design a version with multiples of these on one board that break apart?

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 21:32:06 »
Not sure never ordered custom PCB like this. 
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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 08 July 2013, 21:33:48 »
I would definitely be in for a few if your looking for someone to help share the costs.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 02:38:53 »
just out of curiosity, which case are you using?

Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 02:42:16 »
I would use it to mount my teensy 2.0 to the outside of my lego case I build for my alps 60%
I could also use it to mount a  teensy 2.0 with soarer's converter inside my model f.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 02:47:00 »
I could also use it to mount a  teensy 2.0 with soarer's converter inside my model f.

oh that's a nice idea!

Offline Charger

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 02:57:34 »
Although i don't not yet know the format of a teensy(have one coming in the mail) wouldn't it be cheaper to make this with perfboard or stripboard. The only down side would be it wouldn't look as nice but it wouldn't cost as much and wouldn't take long to do.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 03:13:49 »
Although i don't not yet know the format of a teensy(have one coming in the mail) wouldn't it be cheaper to make this with perfboard or stripboard. The only down side would be it wouldn't look as nice but it wouldn't cost as much and wouldn't take long to do.

indeed, that's what I usually do.

Offline OldDataHands

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 09:01:52 »
My one question is if the mount holes in the corner will accept a 6-32 screw since I already have standoffs and hardware in that size.

The mounting holes are drilled at .140,
and will get plated down to maybe .134
while 6/32 is .137.  I'll update tonight if I
can get a few minutes.  Should have an
internet connection tonight too, so I can
check that the upload to OSHPark will
be smooth.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 09:09:50 »
Excellent thanx a lot OldDataHands. 

Also on the p
Although i don't not yet know the format of a teensy(have one coming in the mail) wouldn't it be cheaper to make this with perfboard or stripboard. The only down side would be it wouldn't look as nice but it wouldn't cost as much and wouldn't take long to do.

It would be cheaper to do it with a perfboard or stripboard but this will look more professionally done and not relying on some sort of adhesive.  Plus when you are a couple hundred dollars into a custom keyboard whats another $5
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 July 2013, 09:12:21 by Melvang »
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Offline Tarzan

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 09:16:03 »
I would definitely be in for a few if your looking for someone to help share the costs.

Ditto.

I have a Teensy that I'm looking for a good mounting solution, the breadboard on offer is way to large for my taste.


Offline Charger

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 15:16:46 »
I would definitely be in for a few if your looking for someone to help share the costs.

Ditto.

I have a Teensy that I'm looking for a good mounting solution, the breadboard on offer is way to large for my taste.

I was kind of thinking that was the reason but when you think about it wouldn't it be better you make your own version of the teensy if you are having a board made you are most the way to just making a custom controller that would cost about the same as buying the teensy and making a board to hold it. It is just a though as I have never worked with surface mount atmel chips just the dip through hole ones.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 15:19:21 »
I'm in for a few of these breakout boards, too. :)
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 15:27:59 »
So why not this
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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 15:33:34 »
So why not this

ok time to spend more money :(

Offline gnubag

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 15:56:33 »
So why not this

ok time to spend more money :(

it isn't even much more expensive than a teensy

Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 16:08:47 »
I was not complaining about the price. I was just saying it is another excuse to spend more money lol.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 16:20:23 »
So why not this

Because I already have a teensy that is functioning in the phantom but my project won't allow the use of the full PCB so I was going to do a hard wired teensy and didn't know this existed.  Plus i figured this might be of use to some others on this site for other projects as well.

Do I need to create an IC thread for this breakout board?

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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 19:30:51 »
Would it be cheaper to design a version with multiples of these on one board that break apart?

I want to preface this with the fact that I am all for open source hardware development and this project.

now to the lame finance stuff.

(($ of Adafruit Atmega32u4 Breakout Board = $19.90) - ($ of teensy = 16))  = $3.90 not counting shipping

If (cost of custom made breakout board > $3.90) then {I think I would buy the premade board from Adafruit}

most custom pcb services charge $10.00 per pcb which is why I was asking if there is a way that maybe we could fit more breakout boards per end product pcb.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 20:45:55 »
Would it be cheaper to design a version with multiples of these on one board that break apart?

I want to preface this with the fact that I am all for open source hardware development and this project.

now to the lame finance stuff.

(($ of Adafruit Atmega32u4 Breakout Board = $19.90) - ($ of teensy = 16))  = $3.90 not counting shipping

If (cost of custom made breakout board > $3.90) then {I think I would buy the premade board from Adafruit}

most custom pcb services charge $10.00 per pcb which is why I was asking if there is a way that maybe we could fit more breakout boards per end product pcb.

Let me ask you this domo.  Not trying to sound like a **** so please don't take it this way.  Does the programming for that Atmega32u4 Breakout Board work the same as the Teensy2.0?  If so than I don't see the difference aside from the fact that some people might already have a Teensy and are just looking for a way to mount it without relying on an adhesive or at least have the option to remove it without resorting to destructive means.  Now if it programs differently then I would definitely be willing to pay an extra 7 dollars or so just so the community that I am collaborating with is very familiar with how it programs.

Or you could look at it this way.  If someone was to purchase the Teensy with the breakout board posted here then someone else with more soldering experience could do that work and then the novice who is building their own board just has to solder the wires to the breakout board and have a smaller chance of damaging a more expensive part.  Just my 2 cents but I am still going to go ahead with this project.

I will be sending this to OshPark for a quote on the 27th of this month.  If anyone else wants one I will add theirs to the order please PM me and I am sure we can work something out.  Or if you think I should start an IC thread for this I can.

Melvang
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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 21:14:15 »
I was also trying to not sound like a **** :D <3 the internet lol.
yes it programs the exact same way as a teensy 2.0.
and yes you should open a IC thread.

I am going to send a pm to regack as he has some experience with breakaway pcb's.
if we can get 3+ per pcb it might be more cost efficient.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 21:35:54 »
No it doesn't program exactly the same as a teensy.  Teensy has it's own bootloader and flasher.  Other boards would behave the same as bpiphany's hid_liberator project.  You use Flip from Atmel which is only slightly more complicated than Teensy Loader.

OshPark charges per sq inch and doesn't care about board quantity as long is it's a multiple of 3.
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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 21:53:02 »
No it doesn't program exactly the same as a teensy.  Teensy has it's own bootloader and flasher.  Other boards would behave the same as bpiphany's hid_liberator project.  You use Flip from Atmel which is only slightly more complicated than Teensy Loader.

OshPark charges per sq inch and doesn't care about board quantity as long is it's a multiple of 3.

sorry your right it is not the same as a teensy because it uses a different bootloader and avrdude.

here is more info.
http://ladyada.net/products/atmega32u4breakout/


thanks for the info about OshPark.

as I had said before. I want to buy a few. let me know how much they are after you get quotes. I will buy 3.

Offline OldDataHands

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:01:58 »
Here are the updated gerbers (ready to be uploaded to OSHPark):* ght2bo.zip (8.34 kB - downloaded 114 times.)
and here is the matching geda/pcb file: * gh_teensy2_bo.pcb (33.54 kB - downloaded 105 times.)
and here is a rendering of the board: 27687-2

and finally pricing: The board is just a hair over 2"x1" according to OSHPark. at $5/sq.in.
it comes to $10.15 for 3 of them, or roughly $3.38 per board, shipped (in the US).

We would have to order 80 of them to get into bulk pricing at OSHPark, which would get us to ~$2 per board,
and then someone would have to reship them all.  I think the hot setup is for anyone interested to put in their
order individually to OSHPark.

I've upped the mounting drill to 0.170 inches, which should be nice for your 6/32 mounting hardware.
The other drills are now at 0.044 to provide a bit more clearance for pins.
Plus, I've incorporated the the GH60 "GH" in the silkscreen for fun.

Some brave soul should call dibs, and order the first set to confirm it's correct before everyone dives in...

« Last Edit: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:04:08 by OldDataHands »

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:16:05 »
I will do order right now

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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:30:43 »
I will definitely order a bunch when you run a GB

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:39:13 »
so which of those file/s do i upload for oshpark?
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Offline OldDataHands

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:40:30 »
You just need to upload the whole .zip
After that you'll just verify that it looks correct.
I already walked through the upload process with that .zip, and it went correctly so it should be stress free.

Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:40:34 »
leave the zip zipped and upload the entire zip file to them.
lol late again.
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:49:31 by domoaligato »

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 09 July 2013, 23:54:03 »
Thanks man order is placed
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Offline Tarzan

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 08:19:38 »
I'd be in for three as well.  Are we in the quality-check stage, prior to doing a group buy?

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 08:31:05 »
Essentially.  I ordered a set but all i would be able to do really would be a continuity check on the pads as I am still in the parts aquisition stage for my project.  I would be willing to part with 2 of them at cost for the boards plus shipping minus the extra I paid for the quicker shipping to my place.  Would prefer these to go to someone that is ready to install into either a currently functioning or very close to functioning project to get this a true test.

Fair warning I am still fairly new to these forums, so I am not really completly up to speed on Group Buy ethics and a little nervous about running one.  But I don't think this would be a marathon GB like I keep hearing rumors about for the Sanctuary or R4 sets.

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Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 15:27:08 »
Boards have been assigned to a panel as of today.
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Offline tgujay

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 15:54:49 »
Boards have been assigned to a panel as of today.

Just curious, and you don't have to tell me if you don't want to, but how much did your order cost?
Gotta collect them all

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:01:00 »
$10.15+$5 for USPS Priority Mail for a total of 15.15 for 3 boards.  Which was the minimum order
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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:34:12 »
a groupbuy for these would be the most straight forward groupbuy ever.
everyone can buy as many as they want.
take the total amount and make sure that it is a multiple of 3. if not then buy the extra 1-2 for extra sales later.
send invoices to everyone.
the paypal part is what I am dealing with atm as you need a paypal business account to accept large amounts.
I got the paypal business account but some are telling me that my account might get frozen and I might need to file paperwork with paypal to get it unlocked.
I have contacted paypal to file the paperwork up front but they keep sending me autoreplys saying everything is all good.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:40:59 »
Recieved this email today from OshPark

"Your boards are being made as you read this!

We've sent the panel containing your boards to the fabricator. We expect to get them back around July 21st.

In case you're interested, there are 69 other orders on the panel along with yours, adding up to a total of 354 boards. Neat eh?"
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:44:33 »
If it's not too crass and you don't mind sharing, how much did it cost to get your PCB made? I'm assuming you're doing your own custom keyboard PCB, something I'd love to try in the future, so I'm trying to figure out how much I need to set aside.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:46:08 »
$10.15+$5 for USPS Priority Mail for a total of 15.15 for 3 boards.  Which was the minimum order

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:47:32 »
If it's not too crass and you don't mind sharing, how much did it cost to get your PCB made? I'm assuming you're doing your own custom keyboard PCB, something I'd love to try in the future, so I'm trying to figure out how much I need to set aside.

These small ones are fairly cheap, plus setup costs and what not get split between all the orders on the panel. That's how companies like OSH Park can do these small prototype boards for cheap.

For my 40% design, I paid around $150 or so to get 5 prototypes made. A 60% would run about $200-250, dependind on the options you choose, for the same 5 prototypes. You can do just one or two, but they start to price a bit better if you do 5.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:49:53 »
I'm assuming you're doing your own custom keyboard PCB,

Yes it is a custom keyboard but no PCB, hardwired matrix.  Hence the purpose of this breakout board
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Offline tgujay

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 11 July 2013, 08:10:20 »
If it's not too crass and you don't mind sharing, how much did it cost to get your PCB made? I'm assuming you're doing your own custom keyboard PCB, something I'd love to try in the future, so I'm trying to figure out how much I need to set aside.

These small ones are fairly cheap, plus setup costs and what not get split between all the orders on the panel. That's how companies like OSH Park can do these small prototype boards for cheap.

For my 40% design, I paid around $150 or so to get 5 prototypes made. A 60% would run about $200-250, dependind on the options you choose, for the same 5 prototypes. You can do just one or two, but they start to price a bit better if you do 5.

Is a 60% or TKL board too big to get your 3 minimum on a panel from OSH Park?
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 11 July 2013, 08:17:36 »
It's cheaper from a normal fab for boards that size.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Looking for a bit of PCB help
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 18 July 2013, 20:27:39 »
First set of 3 have shipped to my house.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich
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