Author Topic: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?  (Read 29560 times)

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Offline Endzone

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Do you really think social security will be there for you when you retire?  Don't you resent paying in all your life knowing you probably won't see a dime?

What do you think about our 17 trillion debt and going higher all the time?  Will there be an economic collapse?

Are you able to afford a house and have 2 cars and at least 2 kids?

Are you concerned about the huge transfer of middle class jobs to China and Mexico and other points?  Does it bother you that the middle class is shrinking and the top 1% are getting even richer?

Does the huge influx of Mexicans concern you?  Are you pro-amnesty?

I'm 56, and I guess what I'm asking is what do you see coming down the line here in America?  Do you think it will hit the fan soon, or do you think it will be business as usual? 

And does it even matter whether you vote republican, democrat or independent or libertarian?  Are you worred about the future of America?

I'm just curious to know how young people think.  I have no other motive for wanting to know.  Thanks. 

Offline Tym

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:29:43 »
Thats seriously depressing for a Keyboard Forum
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline funkymeeba

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:33:20 »
I can't wait for everything to end. :|
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:36:37 »
I pay into a 401k which will hopefully cover my retirement.

The debt is worrisome but at this level almost seems like a joke.

I have a house, 2 vehicles and 2 kids already!

Jobs come and go, some will never come back and the 1% will always get richer.

Unfortunately the large population of illegal immigrants is a large part of what keeps this country going. Good or bad I dunno.

I think it always seems like it will hit the fan but never does.

And no political parties are only around for voter sympathy. They do what they want once they are in office anyways. Worrying won't fix anything so why do it?

And yeah this is a little deep for a keyboard forum :p

One more thing, Endzone your the same age as my parents! ;)

Offline badcop

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:38:40 »
i believe its going to come down to a war.  china is eventually going to get fed up and come knocking on our door to collect and we wont be able to pay them.

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:41:27 »
i believe its going to come down to a war.  china is eventually going to get fed up and come knocking on our door to collect and we wont be able to pay them.

QUICK make a bunker out of model m's!!!!

It actually will probably come down to a cyber war and we will lose, they have better keyboards :p

Offline Endzone

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:44:16 »
I pay into a 401k which will hopefully cover my retirement.

The debt is worrisome but at this level almost seems like a joke.

I have a house, 2 vehicles and 2 kids already!

Jobs come and go, some will never come back and the 1% will always get richer.

Unfortunately the large population of illegal immigrants is a large part of what keeps this country going. Good or bad I dunno.

I think it always seems like it will hit the fan but never does.

And no political parties are only around for voter sympathy. They do what they want once they are in office anyways. Worrying won't fix anything so why do it?

And yeah this is a little deep for a keyboard forum :p

One more thing, Endzone your the same age as my parents! ;)

Hey, thanks for you honest answers, and it sounds like you're living a good life there--where ever you are.  It always seems like it will hit the fan, but it never does--haha.  Well, I guess it does no good to worry about it.  I sure don't think you're one of these guys that is going to go off in the woods somewhere and start prepping. 


Offline Endzone

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:46:25 »
i believe its going to come down to a war.  china is eventually going to get fed up and come knocking on our door to collect and we wont be able to pay them.

QUICK make a bunker out of model m's!!!!

Will a war even be necessary?  China will just own us and buy anything left.  I wonder if they will on day own Unicomp? 

Offline quickcrx702

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 10:35:49 »
I'm in my 30s, so I'll bite.
Do you really think social security will be there for you when you retire?  Don't you resent paying in all your life knowing you probably won't see a dime?
No. Yes.
What do you think about our 17 trillion debt and going higher all the time?  Will there be an economic collapse?
Money is just made up by the Fed anyway, so no.
Are you able to afford a house and have 2 cars and at least 2 kids?
Yes.
Are you concerned about the huge transfer of middle class jobs to China and Mexico and other points?  Does it bother you that the middle class is shrinking and the top 1% are getting even richer?
No.  Those are the jobs of the past.  Americans are innovators, not grunts, and we will always create jobs that cannot be shipped overseas.
Does the huge influx of Mexicans concern you?  Are you pro-amnesty?
No.  I look at immigration like our failed drug war, we're really just playing pretend.  We might as well let these people work legally and tax the **** out of them.
I'm 56, and I guess what I'm asking is what do you see coming down the line here in America?  Do you think it will hit the fan soon, or do you think it will be business as usual? 
I do think the excrement will hit the fan soon.  It seems Americans are getting dumber, fatter, and lazier as time progresses.  We need to stop lowering our passing test scores, stop engineering our food for maximum profit instead of maximum nutrition, and get off of the damn couch and not watch so much television.
And does it even matter whether you vote republican, democrat or independent or libertarian?  Are you worred about the future of America?
No, it's all the same crap.  You get to choose between dealing with a dry turd on your carpet, or wet diarrhea on your carpet.  I voted for Gary Johnson last election, but I might as well have voted for the easter bunny or spiderman, because the system is setup not to give anyone outside of the establishment a chance.
I'm just curious to know how young people think.  I have no other motive for wanting to know.  Thanks. 
You're welcome.

Offline Binge

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 11:10:47 »
It's great how full of fear past-middle age adults can get while, when they were younger, they paved the way for their more "adult" life.  That paving takes a lot of guts, intelligence, and work.

Are you alluding to some theory that our generation won't have the guts, intelligence, or work ethic to live in a world that has been handed down to us by you and your parents?

If you're worried I sense guilt.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 July 2013, 11:12:43 by Binge »
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Offline jwaz

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 11:12:56 »
I'm going to live forever and be rich. it's going to be ****ing awesome.

Offline funkymeeba

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 11:17:14 »
I would like to thank American politicians and corporations for ruining this country for those who come after them. The only way we can go is down, and I, personally, cannot wait for the whole world to hard-reboot.

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Offline alaricljs

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 11:20:28 »
If you're worried I sense guilt.

Most that have the sense to worry have nothing to be guilty for, they are worried about what the majority is going to do.  I get told quite frequently how uncommonly polite, intelligent and well spoken my children are.  I worry that in spite of their being prepared as best I can for the future there won't be a worthwhile future for them.
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Offline Endzone

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 15:12:27 »
If you're worried I sense guilt.

Most that have the sense to worry have nothing to be guilty for, they are worried about what the majority is going to do.  I get told quite frequently how uncommonly polite, intelligent and well spoken my children are.  I worry that in spite of their being prepared as best I can for the future there won't be a worthwhile future for them.

Great to hear there are still kids like that around.  Where I live at this low class monthly hotel, sometimes the kids are better behaved than the adults.  I went down below and asked the guy to please stop slamming the door all the time.  All his kids were there, and the kids actually stopped slamming the door, but the dad didn't. 

What do you think about your kid's education?  Here in Ft. Worth, TX, the cost of tuition at TCU (Texas Christian University) is $12,500/semester and it doesn't matter how many hours your take.  That's $100,000 for 4 years, and that is just tuition.  Are you willing to put your kids in debt for a college education where they may not be able to find a good job after college? 

Offline alaricljs

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 15:27:31 »
I went to college for 2 years and chose to leave for a few reasons.  Going to the wrong college was worse than not going.  So far I'm doing rather well with that choice.  I expect my kids will be capable of making the same choice and would like to think they'd go the happiness route rather than the pursuit of "stuff".

I do foresee some pretty serious repercussions on the way in regard to "our" choice of diet/nutrition and the over use of technology in early childhood development.
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Offline Lanx

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:44:10 »
i think immigration is silly, all it does is create great side business like those mexican coyotes (i only know about them from movies) or shipping asian girls in cargo containers (again my only avenue to this human traffiking is movies)

i will share a story. I know this family that pimps out their 2 sons and daughter. Now when i say pimp out, i mean that they are american citizens, that is the ultimate piece of paper to someone in china. So they take on a wife/husband from china. Now these families in china are rich, but they can only go so far because there is a ceiling, but they have enough to pay this person 50g a year, buy the "new couple" a house, and they practically live in there for 3 years.

why? to keep up with the scam of course, they go all the way, the feds know if you're just marrying for a green card, but if you're living together everyday, for 3 years there really is nothing you can do to disaude them. Also it's in both parties interests to make sure that you seem like a "real" married couple for the year 3 test cuz, the person want's their green card, and you the married citizen wants to keep the money (and no face the shame of failing a test, you know)

now the daughter has done it once, the two sons have done it twice (the max anyone will allow either being married off or marrying into). daughter that did it once found a guy, a few years later (went to their wedding was nice and big, lol wonder how it was paid) the two sons, haven't found anyone, kinda messed up.

Offline Endzone

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:50:16 »
I went to college for 2 years and chose to leave for a few reasons.  Going to the wrong college was worse than not going.  So far I'm doing rather well with that choice.  I expect my kids will be capable of making the same choice and would like to think they'd go the happiness route rather than the pursuit of "stuff".

I do foresee some pretty serious repercussions on the way in regard to "our" choice of diet/nutrition and the over use of technology in early childhood development.

I brought home a few things from the food ministry that I work at twice/week.  These are all good for you--right??

Seriously I miss fruits and veggies before they were genetically modified--especially strawberries.  There was a farm where we lived in the 1970's where you could go pick your own, and they were juicy and sweet.  Now days I think these strawberries are processed cardboard painted red.  They just have no juice and no sweetness. 


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Offline keyboardlover

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 16 July 2013, 07:08:05 »
Well I'm 30 and I think I have a pretty decent handle on what's going on... :)

First I think people need to understand that it's not just America. What's happening here has been happening for all of history - people with weapons want your stuff. It's that simple. And your 401ks won't protect your retirement; they'll start dipping into those too. There are already plans to, in order to fund "counter-terrorism". No matter what the country, the entire concept of forced collectivism always comes at the cost of other people's money, and when you start to run low you have to take more of it. This is really happening everywhere. In countries like England, Switzerland or Norway they don't see it so much simply because those countries have more capital than most others. They are rich as hell, but the same thing will happen eventually. The national debt, as I see it, doesn't really matter, because who is going to make us pay? That's the whole point of the industrial military complex; we are basically forced to fund a gigantic protection agency for the state.

Personally, I have a decent salary but I would NOT be able to afford a house and have two cars and 2+ kids on it - no way! I have a hard enough time saving living alone in a 1 br apartment with one car! Most people these days live paycheck-paycheck and are in debt. The transfer of jobs to me is somewhat disconcerting only because I (and I'm sure others on this forum) have seen a significant drop in quality from moving to Chinese factories. Even more disconcerting is the way "employees" i.e. slaves are treated there. (And some of them are literally chained to their desks, in the Chinese prisons). I would like to see more things made here and I think we would if markets were actually controlled by the people and not the state.

Huge influx of Mexicans does not concern me because we have plenty of land - the problem is taxation and the way markets are controlled by the state. The Mexicans just become more cheap labor for the state and more bodies to make the 1% rich. I am not pro-amnesty; I am pro-anarchy. I don't want borders or permission slips at all. I want human beings to be free because no one has the right to rule or subjugate or live at the expense of anyone else.

Having said all that, personally I don't see an imminent collapse happening. Aren't people still shopping at the mall? Going to McDonald's? As long as people keep spending money, the status quo will be kept. They'll just keep looking for new ways to squeeze more out of us. It will just get tougher and tougher. Personally I think we should all go on welfare - the ship ain't gonna sink itself!

And I definitely believe that voting will not change anything because all electoral politics is cronyism. The entire system - from ballot access to media to corporate sponsorship to gerrymandering - has been put in place to preserve the establishment. Personally I am one of many who want "radical" change here but I want it to come slowly and peacefully through things like education and agorism. I want people to see their relationship with the government for what it truly is (people with weapons who want their stuff) and stop providing consent to the robbery. At the end of the day all governments require consent of the governed, even the worst of dictators.
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 July 2013, 21:23:46 by keyboardlover »

Offline esoomenona

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 16 July 2013, 14:46:10 »
You guys shouldn't kill yourselves worrying so much. Do you know how meese live so long and strong? Carefree, that's how.

Offline Endzone

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 16 July 2013, 19:34:35 »
You guys shouldn't kill yourselves worrying so much. Do you know how meese live so long and strong? Carefree, that's how.

Yeah, but you could say the same thing about homeless guys.  All they care about (like Meese) is where their next meal is coming from.  Carefree, in that sense, doesn't sound too good to me. 

Offline Endzone

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 16 July 2013, 19:35:16 »
Well I'm 30 and I think I have a pretty decent handle on what's going on... :)

First I think people need to understand that it's not just America. What's happening here has been happening for all of history - people with weapons want your stuff. It's that simple. And your 401ks won't protect your retirement; they'll start dipping into those too. There are already plans to, in order to fund "counter-terrorism". No matter what the country, the entire concept of forced collectivism always comes at the cost of other people's money, and when you start to run low you have to take more of it. This is really happening everywhere. In countries like England, Switzerland or Norway they don't see it so much simply because those countries have more capital than most others. They are rich as hell, but the same thing will happen eventually. The national debt, as I see it, doesn't really matter, because who is going to make us pay? That's the whole point of the industrial military complex; we are basically forced to fund a gigantic protection agency for the state.

Personally, I have a decent salary but I would NOT be able to afford a house and have two cars and 2+ kids on it - no way! I have a hard enough time saving living alone in a 1 br apartment with one car! Most people these days live paycheck-paycheck and are in debt. The transfer of jobs to me is somewhat disconcerting only because I (and I'm sure others on this forum) have seen a significant drop in quality from moving to Chinese factories. Even more disconcerting is the way "employees" i.e. slaves are treated there. (And some of the are literally chained to their desks, in the Chinese prisons). I would like to see more things made here and I think we would if markets were actually controlled by the people and not the state.

Huge influx of Mexicans does not concern me because we have plenty of land - the problem is taxation and the way markets are controlled by the state. The Mexicans just become more cheap labor for the state and more bodies to make the 1% rich. I am not pro-amnesty; I am pro-anarchy. I don't want borders or permission slips at all. I want human beings to be free because no one has the right to rule or subjugate or live at the expense of anyone else.

Having said all that, personally I don't see an imminent collapse happening. Aren't people still shopping at the mall? Going to McDonald's? As long as people keep spending money, the status quo will be kept. They'll just keep looking for new ways to squeeze more out of us. It will just get tougher and tougher. Personally I think we should all go on welfare - the ship ain't gonna sink itself!

And I definitely believe that voting will not change anything because all electoral politics is cronyism. The entire system - from ballot access to media to corporate sponsorship to gerrymandering - has been put in place to preserve the establishment. Personally I am one of many who want "radical" change here but I want it to come slowly and peacefully through things like education and agorism. I want people to see their relationship with the government for what it truly is (people with weapons who want their stuff) and stop providing consent to the robbery. At the end of the day all governments require consent of the governed, even the worst of dictators.

Thanks for your response.  I can tell by some of the statements you made that your political leaning is libertarian--right? 

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 16 July 2013, 20:15:34 »
Here is what I see in the future:

CHAOS!

REVOLUTION!

COLLAPSE!

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!

That's it.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Here is what I see in the future:

CHAOS!

REVOLUTION!

COLLAPSE!

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!

That's it.

Without keyboards it will all collapse!

Offline keyboardlover

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 16 July 2013, 21:22:20 »
Thanks for your response.  I can tell by some of the statements you made that your political leaning is libertarian--right? 

Yea...I'm into voluntarism, agorism, anarchy without adjectives, the non-aggression principle, stuff like that.

Offline PointyFox

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 16 July 2013, 21:33:31 »
Do you really think social security will be there for you when you retire?  Don't you resent paying in all your life knowing you probably won't see a dime?
- No, no.
What do you think about our 17 trillion debt and going higher all the time?  Will there be an economic collapse?
-Don't care.  Probably a few.
Are you able to afford a house and have 2 cars and at least 2 kids?
-No.  Hell I can't even afford 1 car, 0 kids, and 0 houses and I've been an engineer for 5 years.
Are you concerned about the huge transfer of middle class jobs to China and Mexico and other points?  Does it bother you that the middle class is shrinking and the top 1% are getting even richer?
-No, they will be coming back here due to rising costs associated with rising lower class.  Yes.
Does the huge influx of Mexicans concern you?  Are you pro-amnesty?
-No, I like Mexican food. ?
I'm 56, and I guess what I'm asking is what do you see coming down the line here in America?  Do you think it will hit the fan soon, or do you think it will be business as usual?
-Our number 1 export will be hilarious reality television about how trashy we are.

And does it even matter whether you vote republican, democrat or independent or libertarian?  Are you worred about the future of America?
-Yes.  Yes.
I'm just curious to know how young people think.  I have no other motive for wanting to know.  Thanks. 

Offline Burz

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 00:32:52 »
Young adults and other disgruntled Americans are about to feel much much better:

'Anti-Propaganda' Ban Repealed, Freeing State Dept. To Direct Its Broadcasting Arm At American Citizens
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Offline mauri

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 01:24:21 »
I think the future in America looks a bit like the past in north korea
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Offline Topre

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 02:10:03 »
I'm not 20 yet, but I see the future of America this way.

Do you really think social security will be there for you when you retire?  Don't you resent paying in all your life knowing you probably won't see a dime?
Yes.

What do you think about our 17 trillion debt and going higher all the time?  Will there be an economic collapse?
There will not be an economic collapse. Yes, we own a ton of money to China, but other countries also own a ****ton to us. Infact, only one country has every completely paid off it's war debts, and that was Finland. If the United States' economy was to collapse then most of the world's economy will fail as well. It won't be good for any country, especially countries that rely on exports if most of the world's economy collapses.

Are you concerned about the huge transfer of middle class jobs to China and Mexico and other points?  Does it bother you that the middle class is shrinking and the top 1% are getting even richer?
Not really. I have noticed a pattern of more productions being moved back to the United States currently. Labor is getting a bit more expensive in China at the moment, but I wouldn't be surprised if India becomes the next "China." India is really trying hard to do well, the fact that English is one of the main languages in India also makes them even more likely to become seen as a more dominant country.

Does the huge influx of Mexicans concern you?  Are you pro-amnesty?
I don't mind Mexicans, as long as they aren't illegal. I have nothing against legal immigrants, although I do dislike when people who are perfectly able to work but leech off the system. It is true that illegal immigrants do come to the country and takes a job at a much lower rate and I do disagree with that.

I'm 56, and I guess what I'm asking is what do you see coming down the line here in America?  Do you think it will hit the fan soon, or do you think it will be business as usual? 
Business as usual.

And does it even matter whether you vote republican, democrat or independent or libertarian?  Are you worried about the future of America
It does not matter whether you vote republican, democrat, or any other party. What matters is something has to be done. Most ideas will work if and only if everyone in the government cooperates and stop trying to make the other party look stupid by doing nothing. When one party wants to do something, the other party simply finds a way and block it. That is making the United States go no where.

Offline keyboardlover

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 06:55:07 »
Relevant

Offline baldgye

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 06:58:51 »
Thats seriously depressing for a Keyboard Forum

Don't worry, it'll be much worse for people in the UK :)

Offline Krogenar

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 07:47:22 »
Do you really think social security will be there for you when you retire?  Don't you resent paying in all your life knowing you probably won't see a dime?

No, it won't -- Social Security is the world's largest ongoing Ponzi Scheme. The money isn't going into an account someplace and earning interest, it's just going directly out to current recipients. And yes, I resent it. I could turn that money into more money if the government would only allow it. That's the unique quality of government -- it combines brute stupidity with great boldness.

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What do you think about our 17 trillion debt and going higher all the time?  Will there be an economic collapse?

The 17 trillion dollar debt is just more proof that the American government (like nearly all governments) is willfully corrupt. But this is a representative government, so Americans should be ashamed. We let it happen, and we're letting it continue.

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Are you able to afford a house and have 2 cars and at least 2 kids?

I can buy a house, but whether I will be able to pay the property taxes is in doubt. Where I live (New York, the belly of the Democratic/Progressive beast) the property taxes can range in the 20k to 30k range -- per year, with no end in sight. Part of me considers taking my business to a more business-friendly state, but I have so much family here it's not a choice I can easily make.

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Are you concerned about the huge transfer of middle class jobs to China and Mexico and other points?  Does it bother you that the middle class is shrinking and the top 1% are getting even richer?

I don't care about the middle class, and I'll tell you why -- they hate me. So I hate them back just as fervently. It doesn't bother me one iota that jobs are transferring to China and Mexico, because I know those people, and they're harder working than your typical American. What the American worker should have been doing the last 50 years was training for a knowledge- and skills-based economy, something akin to Japanese workers. Instead, we invested in labor union laws that crush competition and innovation, eroding our work ethic, and an educational system that is designed to create people ready to man a 1950's era assembly line. We opted for security and class warfare over innovation. Unions built walls to keep a changing world economy OUT -- but the water kept on rising, and when those walls come down (and they inevitably will) instead of a destructive flood of change, we'll have a tsunami of change with which we cannot cope.

As for the 1%, I'm one of them (although likely on the lower, lower end of the scale -- maybe the 2%) and I can say that those people earned their wealth. I hope when the coming crapstorm arrives, that they fly off in a spaceship, leaving cannibalistic Progressives to scrabble through the post-apocalyptic ruins they created. We'll come back someday when their reign of stupidity is over. This is assuming I can purchase a ticket on the flight, perhaps in steerage, shoveling nuclear fuel into the reactor. In any case, I don't hate people who are wealthier than me solely on the basis of their wealth. Wealth is just a symptom of something else; intelligence in action.

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Does the huge influx of Mexicans concern you?  Are you pro-amnesty?

"Dey took mah job!"

I tend to see the world through the most honest mechanism I know -- market forces. I've hired and worked with Mexicans, and can say they were extremely hard-working. Most of the immigrants with which I've worked were very hard working and achieved success. This is because they come from places where you can work as hard as you want and you'll never get ahead of the guy next to you. So when they find a place (America) where working a bit harder actually gets them somewhere, they have reserves of energy you don't usually see in Americans anymore.

That said, I am not pro-amnesty. I'm pro-law. The current kabuki dance in Washington about 'comprehensive immigration reform' is nonsense on stilts. Had the government enforced the existing laws, a new set of 'comprehensive' reform laws wouldn't be necessary in the first place! A sane approach would be to set up registration centers for illegals, give them a six month windows to register, and anyone without a registration card would be summarily deported, period. This way we at least know who is in the country -- a basic security that government should be able to do. Second, we then review all these cases. The criminals and wastrels would self-deport; the people who came here looking for a better life, but broke the law in the process, could be allowed to remain.

I don't blame Mexicans for coming here illegally. If you open up a free buffet and hungry people start filling their pockets with food, is that really so surprising? They're behaving as market forces dictate. The U.S. government is to blame, not illegals, but they still should obey the law.

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I'm 56, and I guess what I'm asking is what do you see coming down the line here in America?  Do you think it will hit the fan soon, or do you think it will be business as usual?

I hold out hope that places like Texas will keep the American experiment alive. If America as a place, as an address, falls away, that's ok -- extremely sad, but maybe the people of America don't deserve the freedom they enjoy. My job as a father and husband is to make sure my family survives the collapse, or (ideally) profits from it. Is that evil, to want to profit from a collapse? In all honesty, I don't care what anyone thinks -- me and mine are going to make it. If that makes me evil, then I'm evil. You go be good and die with your scruples intact. I didn't engineer the collapse; my conscience is clear.

As for when it will happen -- it will be awhile yet. The government will keep on creating financial bubbles because they could never, ever just let the market take its course. Too many stupid Americans look to the government to 'Do Something' -- even though their every effort leads to more destruction. It's a bit like asking the government to 'Do Something' about a solar eclipse. They're certainly willing to take more power and do their best to stop the eclipse. It's not about results, it's about striking a pose, making a show. But when the collapse comes, it will be all the more horrible because people reacted so irrationally for so long.

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And does it even matter whether you vote republican, democrat or independent or libertarian?  Are you worred about the future of America?

I think the Democratic Party is close to creating an unassailable supermajority -- the mediocrities. Take the middle of the Bell Curve, and the left side of it, and what can the right half of the Curve's population do? Nothing. The dunces are in charge, and they demand more magic beans. As I said earlier, I'm more worried that the ideals of America survive, somewhere. I vote almost exclusively Republican because Libertarian candidates are so few and far, and some are just ... well, some of them are just crazy. I don't want no government, I just want a smaller, less powerful government -- like wanting a small dog because when it messes in the house its messes are also 'smaller'.

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I'm just curious to know how young people think.  I have no other motive for wanting to know.  Thanks.
I'm not young, technically. I just barely made the threshold for this survey.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 08:29:44 »
Hey Krogenar.  I'm middle class, and I don't hate you.  Your generalization has been disproved.
 
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Offline Krogenar

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 08:50:27 »
Hey Krogenar.  I'm middle class, and I don't hate you.  Your generalization has been disproved.

Yeah, but you probably vote for bigger and more intrusive (and therefore higher taxing) government at every turn. So your actions probably don't match up with your declarations, so my generalization still holds. Democrats (progressives, liberals, whatever they're calling themselves) they drink the class warfare Kool-Aid. Unless you're in favor of smaller government, which I seriously doubt. You don't hate me, you just want the profit of my labor, which you did not earn, with government acting as your proxy.
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 July 2013, 08:52:07 by Krogenar »
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline alaricljs

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 08:57:30 »
The problem is getting "small government" and "less corporate control of government" in one package. 
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Offline funkymeeba

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 08:59:33 »
Burn all millionaires. Also Ayn Rand books.
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Offline Krogenar

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:05:09 »
The problem is getting "small government" and "less corporate control of government" in one package.

I agree -- end corporate cronyism. End the Farm Bill, too. Oh, and federally protected unions, and public schools. In fact, the government should go back to doing what it was meant to do; lay out the rules, instead of deciding who wins and who loses by rewriting the rules. Oh, and since we're going over a wishlist, how about a fairer tax system that requires nearly everyone to pay something into the government. We should all have some skin in the game.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline Tarzan

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:53:41 »
Burn all millionaires. Also Ayn Rand books.

At least level the damned playing field, so my son has a chance to move up the socio-economic ladder.  It's probably too late for me, but kids should be able to expect a better standard of living than their parents.  Hasn't been the case in America in the past three decades, though.

And yes, burn Randian propaganda every chance you get.  Netflix keeps suggesting those idiotic movies for me, "based on my preferences."  WTF?!

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:15:01 »
I think that I will give a serious response to this now, because I enjoy a good bit of social commentary.

I will preface any of answers with this: any society, country or group is a conglomeration of individuals, and problems must be looked at through the lenses of the individual.  People also tend to be sheep, so I do not expect them to venture to far from the norm and make good individual decisions.

Do you really think social security will be there for you when you retire?  Don't you resent paying in all your life knowing you probably won't see a dime?

It might be there, but in a shell of it's former self.  I will not be relying on it.

What do you think about our 17 trillion debt and going higher all the time?  Will there be an economic collapse?


Money is not real.  It's a creation of governments.  At some point we will default on our debt and our currency will collapse because our leaders have proven themselves more adept at winning favors and posturing for power rather than actually solving problems.  The euro will go first, if anything.  It will be rocky.  Is that sequester over yet?

Are you able to afford a house and have 2 cars and at least 2 kids?


Ha!  Haha!  Woo!  That was a good joke.

Are you concerned about the huge transfer of middle class jobs to China and Mexico and other points?  Does it bother you that the middle class is shrinking and the top 1% are getting even richer?


What bothers me more is the scale of executive pay to worker pay.  Not out of the sense that the average Joe deserves a bigger cut of the pie, but how the heck does it help the company to have executives make 400x the $$$ of their average worker?  How is that good for their bottom line?

Does the huge influx of Mexicans concern you?  Are you pro-amnesty?

Meh.  The already huge population of idiots of all races that are citizens with a sense of entitlement is a bigger concern to me.  No is born of this planet entitled to anything.

Parts of the economy would collapse without illegal and legal immigrant labor, most notably the food and farming industry.  I know that some counties and states have stepped up their enforcement, and the fields laid unharvested as a result. Most Americans simply are not willing to do that sort of backbreaking labor, or willing to move around from season to season like the immigrants do.

I'm 56, and I guess what I'm asking is what do you see coming down the line here in America?  Do you think it will hit the fan soon, or do you think it will be business as usual? 


I doubt that any of us can recall the last major economic collapse, the Great Depression, so I don't think any of really know what it is like to be completely desperate.

I have no clue what will happen, but i do believe that eventually we cannot keep creating through these economic bubbles.  At some point, government debt will become way too big (if isn't already), wealth will become entrenched, and this whole idea of being able to work your way up will disappear.

However, human beings just will not stop doing stuff.  If things get bad, I doubt that people will it around and watch the world collapse before our eyes.  People have families to support, things to build.  If there is a need for something, I believe that people will find ways to fill that need.  We are a resilient species.

And does it even matter whether you vote republican, democrat or independent or libertarian?  Are you worred about the future of America?


The two major parties will do whatever they have to in order to maintain their base and attract new voters.  If they actually were committed to solving problems, I might vote for them, but they are not.  The number one priority of a political party is to win votes and stay in power, whatever it takes.  Politics is a game of power for wannabe actors that sucked at sports.

Vote independent, vote for third parties, shake up the game a little.  Put the two major parties on the run.  Democracy is hugely flawed, but the alternatives are not too appealing.

Also, I believe we should return to the old system when we had a rep for every 30,000 people, just like the old days.  That would make a politician more accountable and it would make it near impossible for the lobbyists and special interests to sway votes for 10,000 reps.  Also, just move Congressional sessions to the Wizards stadium, and maybe RFK or the Washington Nationals park when the weather is nice.

I'm just curious to know how young people think.  I have no other motive for wanting to know.  Thanks.


I am 26.  I guess that is young.  I don't feel old, I can tell you that.
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Offline Krogenar

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:21:44 »
Oh, and less burning books. It may be easier to burn them than to read them, but still... think of the carbon offset credits you'll have to spend.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:26:13 »
Hey Krogenar.  I'm middle class, and I don't hate you.  Your generalization has been disproved.

Yeah, but you probably vote for bigger and more intrusive (and therefore higher taxing) government at every turn. So your actions probably don't match up with your declarations, so my generalization still holds. Democrats (progressives, liberals, whatever they're calling themselves) they drink the class warfare Kool-Aid. Unless you're in favor of smaller government, which I seriously doubt. You don't hate me, you just want the profit of my labor, which you did not earn, with government acting as your proxy.

Funny stuff.  You only help prove my idea that intelligence is not necessary to accumulate wealth.

Oh good, you already everything about me and we have never met or shared any personal details.  Shall I bow down to the omniscient Krogenar, or wait to kiss your hand when we meet in person?  Your arrogance is quite charming.  If you want to continue with your ignorant generalizations, please do so.  I would like to know if you would be this rude to me if we ever met in person, without knowing one iota about me.

Understanding this world is always easier when we just throw people into categories rather than seeking to understand the individual.
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:27:54 by prdlm2009 »
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Offline SidusNare

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:30:34 »
Either we will limp along and some smaller portion of my SS will be available or everything will crash and burn and Ill be living in Germany, Australia, or China. I really like the US, but not so much that I'll stay here when the **** hits the fan.
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. -- H. Poincare

Offline Krogenar

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:35:12 »
What do you think about our 17 trillion debt and going higher all the time?  Will there be an economic collapse?
Money is not real.  It's a creation of governments.  At some point we will default on our debt and our currency will collapse because our leaders have proven themselves more adept at winning favors and posturing for power rather than actually solving problems.  The euro will go first, if anything.  It will be rocky.  Is that sequester over yet?

Yes, our currency will eventually collapse because the Fed keeps on printing money, and undermining its value in order to deficit spend, but money is, in fact, real. Money ("currency") is a medium of exchange, and it is very real. It is not a creation of governments; it is created by individuals as a tool to replace bartering. Government got involved (rightfully) to standardize and manage this critical tool of the market. Governments have devalued their currency to such degrees that people burned the notes because that was more efficient than buying firewood with them. Just because the government is capable of stupidly wrecking a useful tool doesn't make it any less real.

Other than that point, I agree with the rest of your statement.
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:47:46 by Krogenar »
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline Krogenar

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:45:26 »
Hey Krogenar.  I'm middle class, and I don't hate you.  Your generalization has been disproved.

Yeah, but you probably vote for bigger and more intrusive (and therefore higher taxing) government at every turn. So your actions probably don't match up with your declarations, so my generalization still holds. Democrats (progressives, liberals, whatever they're calling themselves) they drink the class warfare Kool-Aid. Unless you're in favor of smaller government, which I seriously doubt. You don't hate me, you just want the profit of my labor, which you did not earn, with government acting as your proxy.

Funny stuff.  You only help prove my idea that intelligence is not necessary to accumulate wealth.

NOT a denial on your part of being a lifelong Democrat.

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Oh good, you already everything about me and we have never met or shared any personal details.  Shall I bow down to the omniscient Krogenar, or wait to kiss your hand when we meet in person?

... I'm thinking about it.

Quote
Your arrogance is quite charming.  If you want to continue with your ignorant generalizations, please do so.  I would like to know if you would be this rude to me if we ever met in person, without knowing one iota about me.

How was I rude to you? But yes, you're right -- I arrogantly refuse to pretend that the government knows what it's doing, or that our political elites are anything but brutal, inept idiots. Progressivism is to blame, yes. The Democratic Party in America wages class warfare and it's disgusting, and they're disgusting as well. Progressives don't hold back, and neither do I.

Quote
Understanding this world is always easier when we just throw people into categories rather than seeking to understand the individual.

We all put people into categories, but how do we label those categories, and what do we do to people once they're categorized? How easily can people switch from one category to another, if at all? I'm all for individuality -- and statistics can never make a perfect prediction on what an individual might do. But, in sum, as I have watched the world it is become more and more evident that the policies of progressives are to blame for our current situation. They want larger, more invasive, more expensive government -- and never stop to look and see what the results have been. I am not trying to understand every individual, just the sum effect of their decisions.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 11:06:23 »
Ah, thank you for the responses, Krogenar.  i would have more to say, but I am trying to learn a new layout at the moment, I am typing slow, and I other things to address today.  And I just learned that one of the secrets of the rich is not spending too much time browsing on the internet.

i agree with your statement about putting people into categories.  I am not immune to such behavior.  For example, I put you into the category of "arrogant jerk."  Perhaps one of the hardest things about this world is remembering that everybody else is an individual like us, with so many different things pulling us in various directions.

I know that you are dying to know, but I have never been a member of a political party, I vote for whoever I please regardless of party, and I will be that way until I die.  I believe that government should be as small as possible, and always looking to get smaller.  But once the bureaucracy grows too large, it might take a collapse to bring things down to size.
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Offline Krogenar

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 11:21:50 »
i agree with your statement about putting people into categories.  I am not immune to such behavior.  For example, I put you into the category of "arrogant jerk."

You were making some good points for a while there.

If I was rude to you, I apologize. I don't see where I was, but if I hurt your feelings I'm sorry.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline keyboardlover

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The problem is that those who have power will never give it up. That's why people should withold consent as much as possible. They require consent to govern.

For instance Thoreau wrote of tax protesting as a way to de-fund those who wage war. There are 3 million americans and only a few hundred thousand irs agents. What if we all stopped paying taxes?

Offline Krogenar

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The problem is that those who have power will never give it up. That's why people should withold consent as much as possible. They require consent to govern.

For instance Thoreau wrote of tax protesting as a way to de-fund those who wage war. There are 3 million americans and only a few hundred thousand irs agents. What if we all stopped paying taxes?

The U.S. government would just drain your bank account. To wit: the Cypriot bank tax that occurred a few months ago. The government just levied a tax on bank accounts over a certain amount, and took the money out directly. What is the bank going to do, say, "No." to them? The Cypriot government put a hold on bank transfers, so people couldn't avoid the tax. They don't actually have to come to your door with a gun to ruin you financially. What currency they don't undermine by printing money, they just take.

If we all stopped paying taxes, KBL, they would just take it straight from our bank accounts. As it stands now the IRS has the right to take directly from your accounts, no questions asked. No, you would have to stop producing wealth in order to bring the government to its knees. Shop owners would have to close down, send workers home, and basically stop making anything of value. What would the government do then? They wouldn't change their policies, they would just take what wealth was available and pay the soldiers for as long as they could. Or confiscate the property of others who refused to produce and give it to their cronies. That might work, but it would be harder on Americans than it would be on our government -- it would be like killing a 90-pound mosquito attached to your neck by holding your breath.

I think a complete economic collapse is more likely. Or another Civil War, but with a North Korean twist -- some southern states (Texas, hopefully) decides to secede and they get a few generals to agree, and we tell the President of the Old United States that we have codes for some nukes, and that we just want a peaceful parting of the ways.... with the subtext being 'or Washington, D.C. vanishes in a flash of light.' That's why Iran, North Korea and every other tin-pot dictatorship wants a nuke; once you have one you're mostly untouchable.

That new America could go back to a pre-Progressivist state, keeping all the social reforms of the Civil Rights Movement and others, but with none of the financial stupidity. I don't want to see any of that happen, but it would beat a complete collapse. That's really the only scenario I see ever possibly working.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline Topre

  • Posts: 149
The problem is that those who have power will never give it up. That's why people should withold consent as much as possible. They require consent to govern.

For instance Thoreau wrote of tax protesting as a way to de-fund those who wage war. There are 3 million americans and only a few hundred thousand irs agents. What if we all stopped paying taxes?

If we all stop paying taxes, there will be even more stupid people than there is today. Education is already lacking in most of the United States, no taxes means no schools. I rather fund a war with my money and have at least some not so stupid come out as a result of my taxes.

Offline keyboardlover

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Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 17:16:47 »
If we all stop paying taxes, there will be even more stupid people than there is today. Education is already lacking in most of the United States, no taxes means no schools. I rather fund a war with my money and have at least some not so stupid come out as a result of my taxes.

That's not true; today you can get a better education on your phone than in a brick & mortar government school house.

The U.S. government would just drain your bank account. To wit: the Cypriot bank tax that occurred a few months ago. The government just levied a tax on bank accounts over a certain amount, and took the money out directly. What is the bank going to do, say, "No." to them? The Cypriot government put a hold on bank transfers, so people couldn't avoid the tax. They don't actually have to come to your door with a gun to ruin you financially. What currency they don't undermine by printing money, they just take.

In Cyprus that's different. Here? with millions of people? If what happened in Cyprus happened here there would be blood in the streets.

I think a complete economic collapse is more likely. Or another Civil War, but with a North Korean twist -- some southern states (Texas, hopefully) decides to secede and they get a few generals to agree, and we tell the President of the Old United States that we have codes for some nukes, and that we just want a peaceful parting of the ways.... with the subtext being 'or Washington, D.C. vanishes in a flash of light.' That's why Iran, North Korea and every other tin-pot dictatorship wants a nuke; once you have one you're mostly untouchable.

Economic collapse is NOT likely as long as people are still fat, happy and stupid. As long as they are still shopping, ain't nothing gonna collapse. And the federal government will never let anyone secede, that's a pipe dream. They tried it before and it resulted in lots of dead bodies. It's just a bad idea. And Iran, North Korea, etc. want nuclear weapons to protect themselves from...guess who...US! You know, the psychopathic neo-colonialist imperialists who've been busy murdering the living shib out of people since Columbus docked his boat here!

That new America could go back to a pre-Progressivist state, keeping all the social reforms of the Civil Rights Movement and others, but with none of the financial stupidity. I don't want to see any of that happen, but it would beat a complete collapse. That's really the only scenario I see ever possibly working.

That's an interesting pipe dream, but it will never happen. Like I said, those who have power will never give it up. Politics is basically like a bully holding your lunch money over your head. You can keep jumping up and down trying to get it (like participating in electoral politics), OR, you can say, just keep it. I don't need it. I'm going to keep my principles and live my own life on my terms.

Offline Topre

  • Posts: 149
Re: 20-somethings & 30-somethings, how do you see the future in America?
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 17 July 2013, 18:16:02 »
If we all stop paying taxes, there will be even more stupid people than there is today. Education is already lacking in most of the United States, no taxes means no schools. I rather fund a war with my money and have at least some not so stupid come out as a result of my taxes.

That's not true; today you can get a better education on your phone than in a brick & mortar government school house.

It is true that you can gain more knowledge from the internet than most schools. It does depend on where you live and what school you go to though, there are some decent public schools around. Schools also teach people things that the internet can not, such as interaction with other people in real life. You should also keep in mind that not everyone can afford internet, or as access to high speed internet such as those in the rural areas of United States. Not everyone has a smartphone as well. Then there is also the lack of motivation to learn when one has to learn or study by themselves. School may be boring or annoying for kids, but as long as they attend and pay a bit of attention then they won't come out learning absolutely nothing. I know for sure when I was 12, I preferred playing games over school or learning. That means if I had the option of looking up random information, attending an online school, or playing games, I would be playing games for sure.