Author Topic: das iii typos at higher speeds (Read 109611 times)

wellington1869 · « **Reply #50 on:** Tue, 11 November 2008, 05:24:36 »

Quote from: lowpoly;10716

For those not reading the ABS thread, it looks like the III is made by Costar:

http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/info.php?p_id=97&p_sid=32

Credit goes to zwmalone for finding this.

looks like they make the Filco too?!

(and the Cherry g80-1800 compact? Actually no, it says ALPS. But whatever it is, I want one of these!)

lowpoly · « **Reply #51 on:** Tue, 11 November 2008, 06:08:48 »

Quote from: wellington1869;10720

looks like they make the Filco too?!

The LED placement and labels look the same. And at least this Majestouch is Made in Taiwan (pic by mr_sf_applet):

The thread linked above contains some speculation about the oem mfgr of the Filco. Case closed, it seems.

lam47 · « **Reply #52 on:** Sat, 15 November 2008, 20:13:41 »

Did anyone get a response from the manufacture about this? I've only gone and ordered one ain't I.

iMav · « **Reply #53 on:** Sat, 15 November 2008, 20:56:29 »

Quote from: lam47;11275

Did anyone get a response from the manufacture about this? I've only gone and ordered one ain't I.

Someone on the forums that owns one needs to submit a support request regarding this. (I got a response to the email I sent that simply said, "thanks for letting us know")

rush340 · « **Reply #54 on:** Sun, 16 November 2008, 20:52:53 »

From http://www.costar.com.tw/aboutus/

Quote

Develop success & mass production for Japan FILCO Company Magnetic Mechanical Keyboards.

Interesting! So that Filco tenkeyless I really want is made by the same company as my Das III.

sprintf32768 · « **Reply #55 on:** Mon, 17 November 2008, 02:52:59 »

I am so glad to find this thread. You guys really take keyboards seriously around here, and it is inspiring.

I preordered two of the DAS-3 keyboards and received them in July. I returned them shortly afterwards. I was getting typos like mad -- and the damn things were definitely reordering the keys. The transposition I noticed most frequently was 'i' and 'n', as in "const nit foo = 3" or "prnitf("...")". We have a lot of keyboards in the office and we could not reproduce this problem with the DAS-2, and of course not with the Avant Stellars or even the Scorpius. I got second and third opinions, so I was pretty sure I was not crazy. I even swapped it with another programmer and used his DAS-2, but he couldn't stand the DAS-3 either.

I reported this problem to metadot, but they claimed they could not reproduce the problem. I do not think they took my claim very seriously. I encouraged them to consider that there might be a bug in the keyboard -- that it sampled keyswitches too infrequently, or otherwise couldn't properly sequence rapid keystrokes. They really were not interested in discussing this, and recommended that I return the keyboards for a refund. So I got my money back and moved on.

So, if you guys can get metadot to even admit that there is a problem with these keyboards, you are moving the ball forward. My experience was very disappointing.

lam47 · « **Reply #56 on:** Mon, 17 November 2008, 03:05:48 »

I've just been typing the really quickly on the alps keyboard and keep getting teh. I'm not hitting e before h though, I'm sure.
I know you guys are faster and more consistent than me at typing and I could be talking out my ass here, could this be an OS issue?

iMav · « **Reply #57 on:** Mon, 17 November 2008, 03:15:16 »

Quote from: sprintf32768;11405

We have a lot of keyboards in the office and we could not reproduce this problem with the DAS-2, and of course not with the Avant Stellars or even the Scorpius..

Sounds like you have an office full of folks who can appreciate quality keyboards. That's outstanding.

As I've mentioned before in this thread, metadot needs to step up and take responsibility for this issue and make things right. Unfortunately, too many sites blow sunshine up their rears (Engadget, Ars Technica, ExtremeTech, etc) and proclaim the new keyboard as the best thing since, well, the Das II...without doing a real critical analysis of the 'board.

The best thing is probably for current owners to complain and to reference this thread (which they are, now, aware of). I think their strategy is to simply refund the money for the "complainers" and to continue to make money off everyone else that doesn't know any better. IMHO, that's just wrong.

Hopefully potential buyers will do their research and find this thread...and then can, at least, make an informed decision.

BTW, welcome to geekhack!!!

bhtooefr · « **Reply #58 on:** Mon, 17 November 2008, 05:32:25 »

I'm not good at getting articles on Slashdot's front page, but does anyone want to take a shot at it? Slashdot has a large enough quantity of people that say "why not just paint a Model M black" that you might have a chance...

(And, most of those people have called Slashdot's previous Das Keyboard articles "slashvertisments...")

itlnstln · « **Reply #59 on:** Mon, 17 November 2008, 07:33:33 »

Quote from: lam47;11407

I've just been typing the really quickly on the alps keyboard and keep getting teh. I'm not hitting e before h though, I'm sure.
I know you guys are faster and more consistent than me at typing and I could be talking out my ass here, could this be an OS issue?

That is teh suck...

lam47 · « **Reply #60 on:** Mon, 17 November 2008, 15:57:19 »

So if this bothers me you think they will refund my lovely money?
I wont be able to afford more than one premium keyboard.

itlnstln · « **Reply #61 on:** Mon, 17 November 2008, 16:02:25 »

I would definitely push them to give you your money back. Really, when you look at it, all you have is a high-priced piece of plastic since it isn't any good for typing. I would get your money back, and find a proven winner (Model M, CVT Avant Prime, HHKB, etc.). If they decide to recall/fix the Das III, and the blue Cherries are your thing, then, maybe, give them you business again, but until then, I would look to get a refund (and push them to pay for shipping, especially, if you had to order from the US).

lam47 · « **Reply #62 on:** Mon, 17 November 2008, 16:56:09 »

Ordered from Germany.
Im going to give it a go and see.
Would it not be possible to flash the rom?

lam47 · « **Reply #63 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 06:38:32 »

Its here.
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth
eth

Bugger.

So what kind of WPM would I need to be hitting for this to affect me?

wellington1869 · « **Reply #64 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 06:43:22 »

Quote from: lam47;11828

Its here.
eth

Bugger.

Hee hee. What are you going to do?

Two alternatives: m10 of course, and DSI's modular mac spacesaver also comes in blues (its my favorite compact layout actually). (The mac layout they have now works fine on windows except for the volume/eject keys). They're coming out with a pc version (in black, yay) in a few months.
The DSI is a bit pricey at $150 or so, but the layout rocks. The m10 of course is a frugal $60.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #65 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 06:45:02 »

Quote

So what kind of WPM would I need to be hitting for this to affect me?

Whats your wpm on a normal board? And what is it on the das? It will probably be pretty close. For me it was more "the principle" that killed it. Everytime I'd see "teh" I would silently fume. It wasnt worth the additional gray hairs it would sprout on my head.

lam47 · « **Reply #66 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 06:55:16 »

Im a bit slow as Im just learning to touch type,
about 50 on a normal board looking and with the wrong fingers and about 30 doing it properly

zzzzzzzz
I will get better of course but would be interested in how quick I need to be to get a typo.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #67 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 07:02:39 »

Quote from: lam47;11834

Im a bit slow as Im just learning to touch type,
about 50 on a normal board looking and with the wrong fingers and about 30 doing it properly zzzzzzzz
I will get better of course but would be interested in how quick I need to be to get a typo.

hmmm, thats a good question. If you're under 50wpm, would the typo issue even affect you? My guess would be "no". IN that case you could probably be okay with the das for quite a while before you speed up enough for the typos to start showing.
Keep in mind tho, the "wpm" rate may not be reflective of whether or not the typos affect you. Because they will affect you if any TWO keystrokes occur too fast. (ie, whatever your WPM rate, if you type TWO keys quickly, at any point in time, that has the chance of not registering properly).
So for myself, again, I would fume no matter what my WPM rate was. But I suppose if you dont think you'd even type TWO keys consecutively fast enough, and at any rate if you dont mind the occasional typo, then I suppose you could use it for a year or two without it affecting you much.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #68 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 07:04:35 »

For example, my mom would never run into this issue - she's total hunt and peck, and types with one or two fingers at a time, and 25 WPM is good for her.

(Of course, she uses a good ol' 1391401 anyway.)

wellington1869 · « **Reply #69 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 07:07:17 »

By the way, what do you think of the way the blue cherries feel?

lam47 · « **Reply #70 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 07:08:49 »

Just running my fingers over asdf from pinky to index is asdf every time.
switch to my right hand and it is fdsa up until quite a speed. Hmm Im not sure what to do.

love the blues! great sound too although Ella prefers the alps.
What I don't like about the alps is how wobbly the keys are.
These are nice and solid, Lighter than I expected too.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #71 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 07:13:28 »

Quote from: lam47;11841

Just running my fingers over asdf from pinky to index is asdf every time.
switch to my right hand and it is fdsa up until quite a speed. Hmm Im not sure what to do.

well why dont you use it for a week and see how you feel. The money-back window is usually two or four weeks, right?

The reason I think it may occasionally affect you regardless of overall typing speed is because even hunt and peck folks can input a few letters quickly. And everytime you do that you'll wonder if it registered correctly.

Or maybe you wont. Use it for a week and see. I'm not immune to its looks. I'm only human! I'd want to find a way to keep it too. Its the old functionality versus coolness issue.

iMav · « **Reply #72 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 09:12:33 »

Quote from: lam47;11828

So what kind of WPM would I need to be hitting for this to affect me?

Most people have "bursts" of speed with commonly used, small words such as "the". So I would think that even slower typist would run into this issue.

I have to say that silence irritates me more than anything else. If metadot simply said, "yes, we are aware of the problem and are trying to figure out a resolution that will make the customer happy and not backrupt us at the same time.", I could live with that. But the, at least outward, appearance that they are ignoring the issue is quite irritating. (and I canceled my Das III order...so I don't even own one!)

Again, have any current owners complained and got any sort of response?

itlnstln · « **Reply #73 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 09:17:03 »

Maybe that's why all teh 133t h4x0rz type so bad. It's not that they're trying to spell poorly or use "1337-speak," they all just use Das keyboards, and we are seeing the results.

Then again, maybe not.

lowpoly · « **Reply #74 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 09:34:14 »

Quote from: iMav;11853

I have to say that silence irritates me more than anything else. If metadot simply said, "yes, we are aware of the problem and are trying to figure out a resolution that will make the customer happy and not backrupt us at the same time.", I could live with that. But the, at least outward, appearance that they are ignoring the issue is quite irritating.

Maybe - behind the scenes - they still fight with Costar about the issue.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #75 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 09:54:51 »

Quote from: iMav;11853

Most people have "bursts" of speed with commonly used, small words such as "the". So I would think that even slower typist would run into this issue.

I have to say that silence irritates me more than anything else. If metadot simply said, "yes, we are aware of the problem and are trying to figure out a resolution that will make the customer happy and not backrupt us at the same time.", I could live with that. But the, at least outward, appearance that they are ignoring the issue is quite irritating. (and I canceled my Das III order...so I don't even own one!)

Maybe they fear lawsuits. Toshiba got sued over a databus design flaw (which had affected *no one* in real life) but paid out a million anyway just for the flaw existing (even though the prosecutors couldnt point to any actual real world case where data was lost). With a flawed keyboard, I imagine the lawsuits could potentially be filed if they 'admitted' anything. There are people out there who'd do that just to get paid off of course (as in the toshiba case).

So maybe they're hoping people will grumble and go away and meanwhile the Das IV will fix it.

itlnstln · « **Reply #76 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 10:08:14 »

I also doubt that many people would have done the analysis that you guys have done and just chalked it up to poor typing skills. I know I would have. I will probably end up reaching my 20 million keystrokes (MTBF) on the backspace key by next week.

lam47 · « **Reply #77 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 10:13:52 »

Just sent a support ticket.
Will let you know how I get on.

itlnstln · « **Reply #78 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 10:17:21 »

Quote from: lam47;11871

Just sent a support ticket.
Will let you know how I get on.

This is good idea. Perhaps, we can draw up a form-letter of sorts, then we can all send them support requests using this letter (whether we own the Das or not). Hopefully, we can bombard them with enough requests that they will fix the problem.

lam47 · « **Reply #79 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 10:22:43 »

Just noticed my c key does not click and feels very different to the other keys.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #80 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 10:23:33 »

Quote from: itlnstln;11873

This is good idea. Perhaps, we can draw up a form-letter of sorts, then we can all send them support requests using this letter (whether we own the Das or not). Hopefully, we can bombard them with enough requests that they will fix the problem.

tell me where to bombard and I'll bombard...

itlnstln · « **Reply #81 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 10:32:25 »

Quote from: wellington1869;11876

tell me where to bombard and I'll bombard...

That's a great question. Would you bombard the OEM, since that is where the problem truly lies and risk them flat-out ignoring you, or do you bombard Das and hope that they will show some pride for their product and exercise some leverage with the OEM to get it fixed (and risk Das flat-out ignoring you as well)?

Or... you could do both.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #82 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 10:39:56 »

Quote from: itlnstln;11878

That's a great question. Would you bombard the OEM, since that is where the problem truly lies and risk them flat-out ignoring you, or do you bombard Das and hope that they will show some pride for their product and exercise some leverage with the OEM to get it fixed (and risk Das flat-out ignoring you as well)?

Or... you could do both.

well Das is the manufacturer licensing it, so I imagine thats where the complaints should go. They can complain up the chain (or is it down the chain?) to costar I guess.

iMav · « **Reply #83 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 11:13:49 »

Let's refrain from simply blasting them. I would suggest those that own a Das III to submit a support ticket with them if you are experiencing the issue (which, I'm guessing is EVERY owner).

We LIKE metadot here. We simply want them to step up and address this fairly significant issue. (so that we can enjoy the, otherwise, great product they are producing for us keyboard enthusiasts)

lam47 · « **Reply #84 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:03:56 »

Well the shop; getdigital.de have offered to replace the keyboard because of the faulty C.
I have no response from my support ticket as yet.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #85 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:09:21 »

Quote from: lam47;11889

Well the shop; getdigital.de have offered to replace the keyboard because of the faulty C.
I have no response from my support ticket as yet.

Do you think you're going to keep it then?

lam47 · « **Reply #86 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:12:12 »

I dont think I will no. Its such a shame.
M10 cant be found in the UK

I like the blues a lot. And the legendles keys.

itlnstln · « **Reply #87 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:17:43 »

Quote from: iMav;11887

Let's refrain from simply blasting them. I would suggest those that own a Das III to submit a support ticket with them if you are experiencing the issue (which, I'm guessing is EVERY owner).

We LIKE metadot here. We simply want them to step up and address this fairly significant issue. (so that we can enjoy the, otherwise, great product they are producing for us keyboard enthusiasts)

That's true. Since they are one of the few mfrs. still making mechanical switch keyboards, we wouldn't want them to start feeling any animosity to the community that they cater to and allows them to exist.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #88 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:25:48 »

Quote from: lam47;11891

I dont think I will no. Its such a shame.
M10 cant be found in the UK I like the blues a lot. And the legendles keys.

surely they would ship the m10 to you? Its on US ebay as well, and from what I see there they do ship to UK, though I dont know how much. Theres a shipping calculator right on the page if you want to find out.

How about DSI's modular? It comes with your choice of blues or browns (and in a few months will have a black pc version out). Incidentally they have an ebay store as well.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #89 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:27:25 »

Quote

M10 cant be found in the UK

I think youre just going to have to move to the US.
(Actually, the whole lot of us should move to south korea, since they seem to have the widest selection of exquisite mechanical keyboards

wellington1869 · « **Reply #90 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:29:32 »

Everyone, heres the login for metadot's helpdesk support where you can open a support ticket. Click on "request an account" and you can get a login and fill out the support form all in one shot. Go nuts.

http://daskeyboard.mojohelpdesk.com/

lowpoly · « **Reply #91 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:30:24 »

Quote from: lam47;11875

Just noticed my c key does not click and feels very different to the other keys.

I had one key on my G80 that didn't click well. It does now. Maybe there's just a little dust in the switch. I'd open it and have a look. Unless you want to send your keyboard back anyway.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #92 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:37:11 »

Quote

Thank for submitting your request. A member of our staff will handle it as soon as possible

Sent in mine.

itlnstln · « **Reply #93 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:38:53 »

Quote from: lowpoly;11898

I had one key on my G80 that didn't click well. It does now. Maybe there's just a little dust in the switch. I'd open it and have a look. Unless you want to send your keyboard back anyway.

Since the blues have a 2-piece stem design, it could be that the bottom piece that produces the click is sticking and not sliding down to create the click. After using it for awhile, it might come unstuck.

lam47 · « **Reply #94 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:54:11 »

My sister in law is going to New York for new years. Is there a shop that sells the M10?
Wait do they even make an M10 with a UK layout?

wellington1869 · « **Reply #95 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:56:33 »

Quote from: lam47;11902

My sister in law is going to New York for new years. Is there a shop that sells the M10?

You mean B&M? NAFAIK.

Quote

Wait do they even make an M10 with a UK layout?

Dunno. Did the das come with UK layout?

bhtooefr · « **Reply #96 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:58:06 »

Quote from: wellington1869;11904

Dunno. Did the das come with UK layout?

Yes.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #97 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 12:59:59 »

Quote from: bhtooefr;11905

Yes.

Heres the Ione reseller page for the m10, I dont see nuthin about UK layouts...

lowpoly · « **Reply #98 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 13:00:15 »

Quote from: itlnstln;11900

Since the blues have a 2-piece stem design, it could be that the bottom piece that produces the click is sticking and not sliding down to create the click. After using it for awhile, it might come unstuck.

This was on my project board. I had more keys fail when I worked on it with lots of dust and the keycaps off. The switch isn't sealed at the top. Dust can fall in when the key is actuated. I opened the switches and blew the dust out. Closed them, pressed them a few times and they worked.

Still, it's a theory and your explanation could be it. Or dust causes the bottom piece to stick.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #99 on:** Thu, 20 November 2008, 13:05:39 »

Well, that's iOne's US site...

News:

Author Topic: das iii typos at higher speeds (Read 109611 times)