keyboard recommendation for typing (programming mostly)?

[Nek]

I am a web developer and I am typing for 20+ years. I havent considered my keyboard seriously until now and after a little search on the net I got flooded by information about keyboards and gotten confused.

I read up about mechanical keyboards which I remember from the old days that were excellent and I miss them now. So i am out to buy a good mechanical one for my coding.

I read about the Das Keyboard S and about some models from Filco. I also read about the various cherry switches and I am torn between the blue and the brown ones, but frankly the only way I can ever make a choice is if I can use them for real. But because there are no such keyboards on demo here in my country, I can only do the second best thing, ask for your recommendations which I feel you are the experts on this subject.

So, can someone recommend me a good mechanical keyboard that will appeal to a programmer like me and be better than the crap el cheapo keyboards that I have right now? Which one do you think is the most popular among programmers/typists? and are the blue switches better than browns or vice versa?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Polymer]

If you don't mind the sound go for blue...If you're using it in an environment where others are around...I'd probably go browns..

[JPG]

For the switches, there is no "better" switch. They all have different characteristics. The main characteristics for switches are:

Force of actuation
Click (sound)
Bump (tactile feedback)

The other main thing to consider is the layout. Usually, less keys = more place for mouse, but it is up to you to decide which are "required" for you

In the end, there's a lot of choice, some are more sturdy, plate mounted, etc. So I would first decide the kind of switch you would prefer and your best layout, then look at the options.

[sth]

skip cherry mx unless you are interested in collecting/ricer modding
IBM model M if you like the classics (tactile NMB is very nice too). topre if you want to try something a little different. hhkb if you want the perfect keyboard.

[___q]

skip cherry mx unless you are interested in collecting/ricer modding
IBM model M if you like the classics (tactile NMB is very nice too). topre if you want to try something a little different. hhkb if you want the perfect keyboard.

ITYM 55g realforce 87U if you want the perfect keyboard   I code on a silenced one at work.

If you're looking at the classics, complicated clicky alps are quite nice as well, IMO. (I've used ones with blue stems, the white-stemmed ones might? be identical.  The simplified ones feel a little weird to me, kind of bumpy, though)

I honestly really like cherry blacks for day-to-day typing too, though, so my tastes might be weird.

[Nek]

skip cherry mx unless you are interested in collecting/ricer modding
IBM model M if you like the classics (tactile NMB is very nice too). topre if you want to try something a little different. hhkb if you want the perfect keyboard.

hhkb? never heard of that. its the first time I see someone saying to avoid cherry mx, why? As for model M, I am not interest, its very bulky for my tastes.

For the switches, there is no "better" switch. They all have different characteristics. The main characteristics for switches are:

Force of actuation
Click (sound)
Bump (tactile feedback)

The other main thing to consider is the layout. Usually, less keys = more place for mouse, but it is up to you to decide which are "required" for you

In the end, there's a lot of choice, some are more sturdy, plate mounted, etc. So I would first decide the kind of switch you would prefer and your best layout, then look at the options.

I am leaning torwards the blue one and as for layout I want it to be strictly default and full size. no extra keys, no extra media keys, no fn key and ofcourse the return key must be the big old one and the navigation rows must be the old three columns type. I would like it to be as compact as possible with not fancy margin around it. In simple words, as plain as possible but with high quality typing, as this is the most important thing for me above all else.

[Sifo]

I was going to say just get an HHKB (Happy Hacking Keyboard)

[sth]

skip cherry mx unless you are interested in collecting/ricer modding
IBM model M if you like the classics (tactile NMB is very nice too). topre if you want to try something a little different. hhkb if you want the perfect keyboard.

hhkb? never heard of that. its the first time I see someone saying to avoid cherry mx, why? As for model M, I am not interest, its very bulky for my tastes.

For the switches, there is no "better" switch. They all have different characteristics. The main characteristics for switches are:

Force of actuation
Click (sound)
Bump (tactile feedback)

The other main thing to consider is the layout. Usually, less keys = more place for mouse, but it is up to you to decide which are "required" for you

In the end, there's a lot of choice, some are more sturdy, plate mounted, etc. So I would first decide the kind of switch you would prefer and your best layout, then look at the options.

I am leaning torwards the blue one and as for layout I want it to be strictly default and full size. no extra keys, no extra media keys, no fn key and ofcourse the return key must be the big old one and the navigation rows must be the old three columns type. I would like it to be as compact as possible with not fancy margin around it. In simple words, as plain as possible but with high quality typing, as this is the most important thing for me above all else.

well appearance is important but i'd caution you to be more aware of the switch feel and whether or not you can stand to hear the keyboard more than the look of it.
i recommend model M to everybody because it's a great board, much higher quality than any cherry MX board, and it's clicky which a lot of people (myself included) like. the tactility is much better than MX blue as well.
cherry switches are very loose with lots of wiggling, generally newer keyboards made with them that are mass produced are of 'just-ok' quality. leopold and filco are good cherry boards, as well as the CM Storm, but it is an ugly thing.

if you want the simplest, plainest, most compact with the highest quality, though, just get an HHKB. the price is high compared to others but it is worth it... nearly everybody who owns a hhkb on this forum will attest to that. you will almost certainly get used to the layout; in fact if you're like a lot of people, you will grow to dislike standard ANSI layouts once you become accustomed to it.

[Techno Trousers]

Unicomp buckling spring boards are nice modern versions of the Model M, and they have models with smaller cases, but full 104 layouts.

I'm a programmer as well, and for text editing I prefer having a traditional ANSI layout with easy to reach for arrow keys (not under a function layer), so a 60% board like the Happy Hacker KB isn't for me, but you'll hear a lot of recommendations of them since they are very popular here.

Best thing would be to try various boards and see what you like best.

[sth]

I'm a programmer as well, and for text editing I prefer having a traditional ANSI layout with easy to reach for arrow keys (not under a function layer), so a 60% board like the Happy Hacker KB isn't for me, but you'll hear a lot of recommendations of them since they are very popular here.

this, just for the record, is pretty much the only gripe that most people have with HHKB (other than whether they like or dislike topre switches and the fact that it is not programmable).

[rowdy]

But then it depends on what OS and tools you use.  Programming on Unix and using vi or similar you can get by completely without arrow keys.

[Nek]

Thank you all for your help.  I have now narrowed down my search to Filco Majestouch 2 Full size Blue mx.

What is your opinion about it? Quality? Feeling? Is it considered one of the best?

And last but not least, I am still worried about my choice in blue switches. Are they that much louder? In a quiet setting in the night would they be very loud and unbearable, even for me who does the typing?

[CPTBadAss]

Thank you all for your help.  I have now narrowed down my search to Filco Majestouch 2 Full size Blue mx.

What is your opinion about it? Quality? Feeling? Is it considered one of the best?

And last but not least, I am still worried about my choice in blue switches. Are they that much louder? In a quiet setting in the night would they be very loud and unbearable, even for me who does the typing?

Of all the stock keyboards, this has been my favorite one. I use it at work as my daily driver. I never had any clicky switches (MX White, Green, Blue, Buckling Spring) bother me. But you might want to look up some YouTube videos and judge for yourself. I'm a fan of this video from WASDKeyboards:

[mapple]

it will take time if you will pick hhkb to use to it, my co-worker is using one, i did try for one day and as a system admin i was missing few keys. I know that u can program/bind and all that but since you are doing for 20 years might be tricky. Currently using only ANSI from time to time missing huge enter key (it was also reason to get all my keyboard in "one line"). It's all about feedback which u want, but in work i'm using green cherry and from time to time switching to blue cherry. But since couple of guys in my work are using also mechkeyboard they are never b***hing about noise;) (rest of ppl - well i don't care about them:)). Again if i would have spare ibm model m i would use in work. The one in my house is too precious.....

to summarize : go with blue cherry best switch for me for work (and ecstasy:P).

[Nek]

HHKB is a very intersting keyboard and I will definitely have it in the back of my mind for the future, but for now it is something that I will not consider as I just want to get a mechanical replacement for my keyboard and don't want to change my habits at the same time. I'm afraid it will be too much of a change and maybe I will regret it.

So now that I have chosen the Filco, I need a little reaffirmation about it from you guys, as I found it for 210-220$ and it will be a somewhat expensive purchase for me.

Can you tell if you would prefer it for typing, against these keyboards below, and why?

Das Keyboard
Ducky equivalent
CM Storm blue
Cherry G80

Or maybe should I try my luck with other cheap alternatives like Monoprice which is at 50-80$ instead?

[ITzNybble]

I would say since you have been programming for 20+ years your typing habits are very well concrete, I say first mech keyboard start with what you know and go for the filco...but once you start using mechanicals again you will be tempted into smaller and smaller boards and if that happens go with a HHKB or a custom board that you can program every key to your liking.(if you dont want the HHKB).

[daerid]

As somebody who's been programming full time for almost as long (15 years), the Filco is a really, really strong first choice. Personally, after trying more boards than I care to count I would suggest going with the 55g RealForce 87U (still my favorite TKL board by far). The action is super smooth yet still very tactile, and the bottom out feeling of Topre will save your fingers some where and tear.

[Niomosy]

I'm a programmer as well, and for text editing I prefer having a traditional ANSI layout with easy to reach for arrow keys (not under a function layer), so a 60% board like the Happy Hacker KB isn't for me, but you'll hear a lot of recommendations of them since they are very popular here.

this, just for the record, is pretty much the only gripe that most people have with HHKB (other than whether they like or dislike topre switches and the fact that it is not programmable).

It's somewhat more a Unix layout like Sun would put on their keyboards though with the \| in a particularly odd location compared to the Type 5 I have at home.  I'm not a huge fan of the HHKB layout as a Unix admin.  It's geared toward developers and I can see why. 

I'd probably just find a nice Realforce once I get around to trying out a Topre-based keyboard.

[jmchargue]

I'm a programmer as well, and for text editing I prefer having a traditional ANSI layout with easy to reach for arrow keys

Clearly, your don't use EMACS or VIM

hjkl movement master race

[metalliqaz]

MX browns. Trust me.  I use Leopold FC200R.

Realforce is also very good.  Elitekeyboards.com

[Niomosy]

I'm a programmer as well, and for text editing I prefer having a traditional ANSI layout with easy to reach for arrow keys

Clearly, your don't use EMACS or VIM

hjkl movement master race

Honestly for VIM I'm not sure what the HHKB advantage is other than the Esc key being closer by being on the number row instead of the function row.  For Emacs, the Ctrl is in another location but I tend to find it a bit uncomfortable in comparison to the regular spot.  I admit I mostly just use set -o emacs at the CLI more than I actually edit in Emacs so I may not be experiencing the joy of the remapped Ctrl key.

[Thimplum]

IMO, there is no better switch for typing than buckling spring. I think that blues are too light.

[metalliqaz]

As much as I like Vim, I think Notepad++ is the best programmer's text editor.

[Thimplum]

As much as I like Vim, I think Notepad++ is the best programmer's text editor.

What makes you say that?

[jmchargue]

^this. Reeeeall curious

[Nek]

I just watched this review in the wild:

And I got confused about the Filco, does the space bar really rattles if you touch it without pressing it? If this is the case then it is completely unacceptable for me. My el cheapo rubber dome keyboards rattle this way and I hate it, I will not buy something that expensive that also rattles like them. Can other owners of Filco Majestouch 2 confirm this?

[Niomosy]

IMO, there is no better switch for typing than buckling spring. I think that blues are too light.

Funny thing with buckling versus blues.  I prefer reds for typing, blacks and browns second.  That said, I much prefer buckling springs to blues.  I'm faster on BS over blues which probably helps the preference.

[metalliqaz]

As much as I like Vim, I think Notepad++ is the best programmer's text editor.

What makes you say that?

It's open source, packed with modern features, and easy to use.  I go faster on Notepad++ than anything else.

[Hellmark]

The problem with VIM is it isn't useful without lots of experience, and knowledge of its tricks. When you have a text editor that you can buy multiple books about, you know things aren't simple.

Notepad++ is cool, but, only useful for the Windows crowd.

In the '90s, I used to really like Super Notetab. Newer versions I liked less, and never really found something I liked as well.

I'm mostly using Gedit right now, but been toying with other stuff.

[___q]

As much as I like Vim, I think Notepad++ is the best programmer's text editor.

What makes you say that?

It's open source, packed with modern features, and easy to use.  I go faster on Notepad++ than anything else.

Replace 'Notepad++' with 'Emacs' and I completely agree with you.

[KangarooZombies]

 I very strongly recommend the HHKB, the layout is super efficient, the sound is unmatched and it will last you a good long while.

Kangaroo~

[metalliqaz]

I just can't imagine trying to program without dedicated direction keys (arrows/pgup/pgdn/home/end). Typing ctrl-left on the hhkb doesn't sound like fun

[Thimplum]

I just can't imagine trying to program without dedicated direction keys (arrows/pgup/pgdn/home/end). Typing ctrl-left on the hhkb doesn't sound like fun

same

[sth]

I just can't imagine trying to program without dedicated direction keys (arrows/pgup/pgdn/home/end). Typing ctrl-left on the hhkb doesn't sound like fun

it takes the same number of hands... one extra finger... maybe half a calorie... and typing ctrl-left on anything doesn't sound like fun, it sounds like work.

[daerid]

I just can't imagine trying to program without dedicated direction keys (arrows/pgup/pgdn/home/end). Typing ctrl-left on the hhkb doesn't sound like fun

Why use two keys for that motion when in vim you just need one?

Notepad++/Sublime/TextMate are for the kiddie table.

You want real power in a text editor, come join us at the big kids table. It may require some discipline and learning, but any professional tool will require the same.

(Aaaaaaaaand that exhausts my trolling fuel tank for the week)

[KangarooZombies]

I just can't imagine trying to program without dedicated direction keys (arrows/pgup/pgdn/home/end). Typing ctrl-left on the hhkb doesn't sound like fun

I really cant tell if this is a troll

Are you serious? Really so lazy an extra key takes that much of a toll on you?

The HHKB has the most genius arrow key layout for web developers.

I honestly prefer it to the dedicated ones on my 660C.

Kangaroo~

[rowdy]

I just can't imagine trying to program without dedicated direction keys (arrows/pgup/pgdn/home/end). Typing ctrl-left on the hhkb doesn't sound like fun

I really cant tell if this is a troll

Are you serious? Really so lazy an extra key takes that much of a toll on you?

The HHKB has the most genius arrow key layout for web developers.

I honestly prefer it to the dedicated ones on my 660C.

Kangaroo~

I found that the problem is muscle memory - I am far too used to reaching over to the right of the keyboard for the upside down T of arrow keys to navigate.  Having a staggered layout in the middle right of the main keyboard, used in conjunction with the Fn key, just makes things that little bit more difficult.

[Nek]

Enough with the HHKB already. It's the best, but thats another topic.

What about my question about the Filco? Anybody?

I just watched this review in the wild:

And I got confused about the Filco, does the space bar really rattles if you touch it without pressing it? If this is the case then it is completely unacceptable for me. My el cheapo rubber dome keyboards rattle this way and I hate it, I will not buy something that expensive that also rattles like them. Can other owners of Filco Majestouch 2 confirm this?

[daerid]

Every board with costar stabilizers I've ever owned had slightly rattle-y space bars. That doesn't mean it's poorly made. It's just the nature of the beast.

A $5 tube of lithium grease and a toothpick will fix it right up (as well as the shifts, enter, and backspace keys)

[Hellmark]

I found that the problem is muscle memory - I am far too used to reaching over to the right of the keyboard for the upside down T of arrow keys to navigate.  Having a staggered layout in the middle right of the main keyboard, used in conjunction with the Fn key, just makes things that little bit more difficult.

That's my issue too, and why I am hesitant to go to a 60%. I've had my laptop for a year and a half, and I just now got used to the half height up and down centered arrows.

[rowdy]

I found that the problem is muscle memory - I am far too used to reaching over to the right of the keyboard for the upside down T of arrow keys to navigate.  Having a staggered layout in the middle right of the main keyboard, used in conjunction with the Fn key, just makes things that little bit more difficult.

That's my issue too, and why I am hesitant to go to a 60%. I've had my laptop for a year and a half, and I just now got used to the half height up and down centered arrows.

And another problem for me is that I switch between keyboards a bit - HHKB at work (instead of a Model M) and KeyCool 87 at work.  The HHKB is nice, but I actually end up typing more at work, so it is taking me longer to get accustomed to the HHKB layout, and just as the light starts to shine through after a long weekend of typing, I go back to work Monday morning to a more conventional TKL layout.

[Architect]

I'd recommend an ergo keyboard, I use the TECK/Truly Ergonomic. You can also look at the Kinesis Advantage but it's more expensive and not as good a keyboard IMO.

I program all day and this is the best keyboard I've ever found for the purpose, just as good for gaming too. I wouldn't recommend Blue's though, they'll drive you crazy eventually. I've been typing on Browns for 15 years and wouldn't do it any other way. For general usage that is, when I game I use a TECK Cherry Red.

[Nek]

I am looking at a Ducky Zero 2108 (not shine) and it is very inexpensive compared to the filco. The ducky will cost me around 120$ and the filco 220$.

Considering that I use very cheap rubberdomes, is the difference with filco that great or the ducky is satisfying enough for someone who comes from rubberdomes?

[PadawanGeek]

Nothing wrong with a Ducky Zero, great entry level mechanical keyboard...

[rowdy]

I am looking at a Ducky Zero 2108 (not shine) and it is very inexpensive compared to the filco. The ducky will cost me around 120$ and the filco 220$.

Considering that I use very cheap rubberdomes, is the difference with filco that great or the ducky is satisfying enough for someone who comes from rubberdomes?

To a certain extent it will depend on what type of switch you get.

MX reds are said to be the closest to rubber dome in that they are light and linear.  But if you spend a moment and actually feel the switches as you press the keys, the difference will be huge.  The other MX switch types are further removed from rubber dome.

Ducky is a great brand, and the Shine Zero is a no frills entry level mechanical keyboard.  It has standard layout too, making key cap replacement easier.

[bubchi89]

The problem with VIM is it isn't useful without lots of experience, and knowledge of its tricks. When you have a text editor that you can buy multiple books about, you know things aren't simple.

Notepad++ is cool, but, only useful for the Windows crowd.

In the '90s, I used to really like Super Notetab. Newer versions I liked less, and never really found something I liked as well.

I'm mostly using Gedit right now, but been toying with other stuff.

vim can become useful to you in a matter of hours. It took me a couple of days to be _completely comfortable_ with hjkl movement and basic hotkeys like
-$ to go to end of line
-^ to go to beginning of line
-/ for searching the file
-w for moving forward a "word" (i.e. block of text as separated by delimiters), and b for moving backward
-## to go to a line
-regex search and replace (<- caveat is that I had experience with regexes. uncaveat is that every search and replace uses regexes...)
-yank and paste
+ a few more I'm sure

They aren't tricks. The entire point of vim is to use hotkeys. It's not like it's a text editor and "oh yeah, you can use these cool hotkey tricks I added". It was built from the ground up with that intention.

You don't need textbooks to use vim. You will probably get everything you need via search engine queries like "how do i do [foo] in vim?". If you end up hacking .vim config files then you may need help at the IRC channel, but the documentation is actually amazing with great examples.

If you are going to code for a living, please dear god do not use editors without learning some hotkeys. Even if it's not vim, you should at least memorize hotkeys for things you do _on a minute basis_ while you are coding. It is beyond stupid watching someone spend 30 seconds typing something which you could do in <5... using only basic basic basic hotkeys (nothing special like "VS code snippets")

@OP I agree that HHKB is a silly recommendation for your first mechanical kb since it requires you to change your typing habits. If you could only buy one. Ever. Then maybe the leap is worth it. But I would say any decently made board would suit you. Mostly everyone is happy with browns and blues for typing. The youtube videos already posted give you a good indication of sound.

[Architect]

For programming navigation is the most frequent thing you will do. Continually putting the insertion point somewhere.

The second is switching between applications and using a small set of shortcuts. Unfortunately they vary between different IDE's.

• Find file in solution
• Jump to function
• Jump to definition
• Switch Application
• Navigate by letter, word, sentence, page and file
• Build and debug functions

A keyboard that supports those in a good way will get you where you want to go quickest.

[Nek]

Finally I ordered a Filco Majestouch 2 full size us layout with blue switches from thekeyboardco.

The ducky was a very tempting choice but it turned out that I couldn't find one with a USA (ANSI) layout. And also I would always have it in the back of my mind, that I bought the ducky only for the price, but I really wanted the Filco. And as I don't like to make compromises with my work "tools", just because I didn't get my first choice I know I will not be 100% satisfied. That means that some time in the future, I would compel myself enough and buy a Filco. So why not get the Filco first after all?

The final cost was steep, my order with shipping ended up at 250$ with a key puller plus a packet of o-rings. I hope it will worth it. Thanks all for your great help. I'll write my impressions when I'll have it in my hands.

[Tempiz]

The HHP2 or the IBM Model M are both beautiful keyboards to type on. I recommend you to buy one of them!

[sth]

Finally I ordered a Filco Majestouch 2 full size us layout with blue switches from thekeyboardco.

The ducky was a very tempting choice but it turned out that I couldn't find one with a USA (ANSI) layout. And also I would always have it in the back of my mind, that I bought the ducky only for the price, but I really wanted the Filco. And as I don't like to make compromises with my work "tools", just because I didn't get my first choice I know I will not be 100% satisfied. That means that some time in the future, I would compel myself enough and buy a Filco. So why not get the Filco first after all?

The final cost was steep, my order with shipping ended up at 250$ with a key puller plus a packet of o-rings. I hope it will worth it. Thanks all for your great help. I'll write my impressions when I'll have it in my hands.

$250? i think you got ripped off...