Windows 8.1

[SpAmRaY]

Anyone know how to set your Start button to operate like it used to? (In windows 7) I like sticking to my old ways 

Download a third party one.

Wont that look stupid with the windows 8.1 start button?

They normally completely replace the start button

http://www.classicshell.net/

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2054422/five-tools-to-bring-the-start-menu-back-to-windows-8-1.html

[ijprest]

Vista was terrible. I remember when it first came out, I was working for Toshiba at the time. And the thing just didn't have any drivers. Customer buys laptop, and there's no sound. Or no wifi. Vista was just a terrible, terrible mess.

Just playing devil's advocate, here, but how was that Vista's fault?  It sounds more like Toshiba's fault (or that of your component suppliers).

I agree that it adds up to a poor user experience.  And it was partly experiences like this... especially early on... that earned Vista such a bad rap.  The OS itself was solid.  It consumed a lot of resources, yes, but given appropriate hardware (and drivers) it ran just fine. 

Win7 was certainly better in most ways... but it was really just a *refinement* of Vista.  (And, fortunately, the hardware makers had finally caught up.) 

In the same way, Win 8.1 is just a refinement of Win 8.

[saturnotaku]

No-one has ever made a convincing or legitimate argument for why Windows 8 is so bad. The only "argument" ever used is "I don't like Metro" which is completely subjective and runs counter to actual objective data (like the fact it requires less mouse clicks and keystrokes to achieve the same actions in windows 8 than it did in Windows 7.

The removal and hiding of system backup features can be a big problem. I'll crib a post from another message board explaining:

There are also some truly bizarre decisions made in 8.1 that just left me scratching my head. For example, the hiding of Libraries from the default view of File Explorer and the removal of the Windows 7 File Recovery component of Windows Control Panel, along with its automatic Windows Backup feature. It can be argued that the new File History feature in Windows 8, which is similar, makes the older method redundant. Except that File History doesn't allow a choice of folders to backup. It only backs up the contents of your Desktop, Favorites, Contacts, and Libraries. So the only true automated backup alternative left available in Windows 8.1 depends entirely on users adding files and folders to their Libraries for it to be effective - yet the OS now hides Libraries by default.

The removal of Windows 7 File Recovery means the System Image Backup method has been removed from ready view as well. This is one of the most important backup methods and one which I use on a regular basis. Thankfully, it hasn't been removed from the OS completely, it's been relegated to an obscure corner of the File History window. And it doesn't show up in any Windows Search results, which means M$ hid it on purpose.

I believe Microsoft has hidden or removed existing backup features in Windows 8, which are quite useful and have come to be relied upon by many users such as myself, as a blind push to get people to use their cloud-based services, particularly SkyDrive. I don't think I need to get into how foolish it is to forgo local backup and rely solely on cloud for system and file backups. The privacy and data loss implications are huge, what with the NSA essentially having tech companies like Microsoft on a leash, and there's no guarantee that SkyDrive servers won't be hacked or experience data loss

Link

I don't hate Windows 8, but after reading that Windows 8.1 really doesn't fix much of anything (while breaking some other stuff), I am still not in a hurry to change from Windows 7.

[microsoft windows]

An interesting variety of receptions here. I think I'll just stick with Windows 98 for the time being though. Runs great on my old but rock-solid 1996 Compaq with a Pentium processor. And it's even got the start menu!

[ynrozturk]

Vista was terrible. I remember when it first came out, I was working for Toshiba at the time. And the thing just didn't have any drivers. Customer buys laptop, and there's no sound. Or no wifi. Vista was just a terrible, terrible mess.

Just playing devil's advocate, here, but how was that Vista's fault?  It sounds more like Toshiba's fault (or that of your component suppliers).

I agree that it adds up to a poor user experience.  And it was partly experiences like this... especially early on... that earned Vista such a bad rap.  The OS itself was solid.  It consumed a lot of resources, yes, but given appropriate hardware (and drivers) it ran just fine. 

Win7 was certainly better in most ways... but it was really just a *refinement* of Vista.  (And, fortunately, the hardware makers had finally caught up.) 

In the same way, Win 8.1 is just a refinement of Win 8.

Well Windows 7 at least provided the required, basic drivers with the initial operating system. Vista didn't. We would have to suggest 3rd party drivers to clients and tell them to install them at their own risk.

[Oobly]

If I can get w8 for free, is it worth upgrading from 7?

NOOOOO!!!!!

Unless you like having to load the desktop as an Application, not have the taskbar or status bar visible when running Metro apps, enjoy moving your mouse all the way to the corner of the screen to do task switching or find an app, want to drag apps down to close them, want to search harder to find particular system settings, want a harder to read programs menu with big ugly icons, etc...

Touch interfaces belong on touch devices... At least in my opinion.

Each to their own, though. If you like Metro, then go for it, but definitely try it out before you decide.

[pichu23]

Been trying to update since last night but always fails.
I guess it's driver issues.
I don't want to use the driver provided through windows update.
Sucks I know. But what to do what do

[Melvang]

I am going to be getting 8.1 here in a few minutes.  I would just like to say you could setup 8 to boot straight to desktop.  Don't remember how I did it but mine does.  Also I have the metro UI but I love 8.  I went from XP to 7RC to 7 official to this.  I really like the performance improvements I just wish Microsoft would up the bar on the efficiency of the registry.  Because by my limited knowledge of under the hood stuffs this is one place that Mac OS's have a huge improvement over Windoze.

[Neal]

Anyone know how to set your Start button to operate like it used to? (In windows 7) I like sticking to my old ways 

Download a third party one.

Wont that look stupid with the windows 8.1 start button?

They normally completely replace the start button

http://www.classicshell.net/

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2054422/five-tools-to-bring-the-start-menu-back-to-windows-8-1.html

I recommend this one: http://www.startisback.com/
seems to be the best one around.

[Tym]

Using classic shell, cheers spam. Looks just like windows 7,  works great and all. Cheers!

[Photoelectric]

My 8.1 Search isn't functioning well at all Even built-in Windows functions that used to show up with 8.0 Search results no longer do--only very generic ones.  For example, 'control panel' is fine.   But 'remote' to look for Windows Remote Assistance (I help my mom with her computer sometimes) brings up only 'Windows Remote Desktop' and nothing else, whereas it worked fine with 8.0 giving a few results including Remote Assistance.  Likewise searching for 'monitor' to get monitor calibration option brings nothing.  There've been so many examples like that since switching to 8.1, I want to throw something at my computer, as I'd gotten very used to using the Search function with 8.0, and now it's not working.  Have I missed something?

[DamienG]

Hmm, Remote comes up with an option for Remote assistance on mine.

You can also use Win-W instead of Win-S to search Windows system things like that.

[)amien

[Photoelectric]

Doesn't work that way either.  I think I need to reset something.

[oscillik]

I've been running Windows 8 on my main computer since it came out, I just updated my ThinkPad to Windows 8.1 and I'm really pleased with it. I can't update my main system to Windows 8.1 just yet, as my fan controller isn't currently supported yet but when it is, I'll be updating.

[ynrozturk]

Updating now. Lets see how it is..

[Johan]

Is alt f4 still the fastest way to turn of the system?

[oscillik]

Is alt f4 still the fastest way to turn of the system?

That's never been the fastest way to turn off the system. The fastest way is to either set your computer's power button to Shut Down the machine when pressed, or to set up an AutoHotkey script to do it.

[Photoelectric]

I added the shut down button shortcut to the start menu (bottom left).  So I just hit the Win key and click on that icon.  It's pretty fast.

[Johan]

Is alt f4 still the fastest way to turn of the system?

That's never been the fastest way to turn off the system. The fastest way is to either set your computer's power button to Shut Down the machine when pressed, or to set up an AutoHotkey script to do it.

I worded that very poorly, I meant is there a way similar to winkey-left arrowkey-enter to turn off. I remember an old IT teacher telling me to never turn off via holding down the power button unless you couldn't power off through windows. Might be total bull**** though.

[Melvang]

Is alt f4 still the fastest way to turn of the system?

That's never been the fastest way to turn off the system. The fastest way is to either set your computer's power button to Shut Down the machine when pressed, or to set up an AutoHotkey script to do it.

I worded that very poorly, I meant is there a way similar to winkey-left arrowkey-enter to turn off. I remember an old IT teacher telling me to never turn off via holding down the power button unless you couldn't power off through windows. Might be total bull**** though.

I think what photoelectric is saying is in the options in windows you can change what happens when you just press the power button like when you turn it on.  You can have it function as a shut down the same as if you jumped through all the hoops to do it in the OS with the mouse.

[Photoelectric]

No, I meant that I've made a shortcut to shutdown.exe and added it to the start screen.  So clicking on the shortcut shuts down the computer without any approval dialog boxes.



P.S.: found an article describing steps on how to do this.

Mine has zero delay:

[DamienG]

Win+I > Power > Shutdown.

Or mouse only: Right click on Windows logo > Shut down or sign out > Shutdown.

[)amien

[Photoelectric]

That takes longer

[IvanIvanovich]

I only use ALT+F4 to shutdown when in a remote session, otherwise I usually just right click start and choose shutdown.

[DamienG]

I never actually shut my machine down, just set the power saving options to what you want and leave it be.

[)amien

[Photoelectric]

As an update, deleting the C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Search\Data directory has helped fix my broken Search function (make sure to stop the Microsoft Windows Search Indexer process in the Task Manager first).

[Johan]

Thanks a ton Photoelectric, It works perfectly.

[Neal]

Updated to 8.1 last night.

Had some MAJOR issues with my digital sound not working, uninstalling drivers seems to have fixed it (Dafuq? no drivers = it works?)

Anyway, I like 8.1 more than 8 and I liked 8 more than 7 from a power users perspective.

I also updated to Mavericks the same night, much more love for that.

[Photoelectric]

Just figured out why my Search Everywhere function kept breaking.  I had a hunch that drive indexing had something to do with it, and normally I kept that off on Windows 7 and Windows 8 with no detriment.  Windows 8.1 seems to need it enabled, however, as Search does not function properly without it.



Also figured out why Remote Assistance was not working in general--disabling VMWare virtual adapters fixed it.

Now I need to fix folder sorting... it's totally broken after updating to 8.1

[rowdy]

Just figured out why my Search Everywhere function kept breaking.  I had a hunch that drive indexing had something to do with it, and normally I kept that off on Windows 7 and Windows 8 with no detriment.  Windows 8.1 seems to need it enabled, however, as Search does not function properly without it.

(Attachment Link)

Also figured out why Remote Assistance was not working in general--disabling VMWare virtual adapters fixed it.

Now I need to fix folder sorting... it's totally broken after updating to 8.1

Windows 8 still has that old drive properties dialog?  With Metro or whatever it is called now and OpenGL and DirectX and everything else, they still have that old Windows 95-like properties dialog?

[Photoelectric]

I don't see what's wrong with those.  They are familiar and to the point.

[oscillik]

Whatever you do, do not try to register a Windows 8 Media Center product key on a machine running Windows 8.1

it will deactivate your Windows installation, without anyway to reactivate.

I will be spending the next few days reinstalling Windows 8 Pro, then installing all my drivers, and then upgrading to Windows 8.1 Pro and then reinstalling all my software.

[Neal]

Whatever you do, do not try to register a Windows 8 Media Center product key on a machine running Windows 8.1

it will deactivate your Windows installation, without anyway to reactivate.

I will be spending the next few days reinstalling Windows 8 Pro, then installing all my drivers, and then upgrading to Windows 8.1 Pro and then reinstalling all my software.

What I did was Install 8 then add Media center, and then upgrade to 8.1.
I'm now on 8.1 with media center.

[Malphas]

Exactly what happened with Windows Vista and Windows 7 which are virtually identical operating systems but had vastly different receptions.

With all due respect, are you on crack??? That's like saying Windows ME is virtually identical to Windows 2000. And that statement itself doesn't even make sense seeing as how ME was a 9x OS and 2000 is NT... but then again that's the point I'm trying to make.

It's not at all like saying that. Compare a fully-updated version of Windows Vista to Windows 7 on the same hardware and if you're honest, you'll find they're barely distinguishable.

Vista was terrible. I remember when it first came out, I was working for Toshiba at the time. And the thing just didn't have any drivers. Customer buys laptop, and there's no sound. Or no wifi. Vista was just a terrible, terrible mess. 7 on the other hand came out solid, and it still is. So is 8, I don't see too many problems with it. Nothing serious at least.

This is my point. I don't see how you can write this and not realise the flaws in your argument. As you correctly identified one of the biggest problems upon Vista's release was the lack of drivers, underpowered hardware, etc. Not any fault of the OS itself. The reason Windows 7 appears to be better by people that don't know any better is because of patches since Vista's release, a more mature driver and software ecosystem, and the fact the hardware was seven years newer and vastly more powerful.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Exactly what happened with Windows Vista and Windows 7 which are virtually identical operating systems but had vastly different receptions.

With all due respect, are you on crack??? That's like saying Windows ME is virtually identical to Windows 2000. And that statement itself doesn't even make sense seeing as how ME was a 9x OS and 2000 is NT... but then again that's the point I'm trying to make.

It's not at all like saying that. Compare a fully-updated version of Windows Vista to Windows 7 on the same hardware and if you're honest, you'll find they're barely distinguishable.

Vista was terrible. I remember when it first came out, I was working for Toshiba at the time. And the thing just didn't have any drivers. Customer buys laptop, and there's no sound. Or no wifi. Vista was just a terrible, terrible mess. 7 on the other hand came out solid, and it still is. So is 8, I don't see too many problems with it. Nothing serious at least.

This is my point. I don't see how you can write this and not realise the flaws in your argument. As you correctly identified one of the biggest problems upon Vista's release was the lack of drivers, underpowered hardware, etc. Not any fault of the OS itself. The reason Windows 7 appears to be better by people that don't know any better is because of patches since Vista's release, a more mature driver and software ecosystem, and the fact the hardware was seven years newer and vastly more powerful.

So you're saying if I take Windows ME and run it on the most powerful hardware available it will become a better operating system? Cuz that's essentially what your trying to say about Vista here, and that argument just doesn't seem logical...

Don't get me wrong, I understand your argument. On the software level Vista and 7 are quite similar. But that doesn't change the fact that upon release Vista WAS a piece of **** (for reasons stated above) and that did have a direct impact on how people perceived it.  Making statements about how all those issues can be solved now isn't going to change their minds on that...

It's called gaining a bad reputation. Whether it is warranted or not is irrelevant, it will be hard to change that reputation.

[Malphas]

Windows ME wouldn't suddenly become better if you used it on modern hardware though. It was legitimately bad. Vista wasn't. I'm not trying to alter people's opinions, I'm just mocking them for being uninformed. You're seem to be in a rather confused position where you apparently are aware that Vista is no different from 7, but still under the impression Vista is bad somehow.

[ynrozturk]

Just saw this.

To make it clear, I wasn't presenting an argument. I was presenting facts. For nearly 2 months after Vista launched, the OS didn't have any drivers or proper support. That is not an argument. That is a cold hard fact.

If they improved it since then with updates and patches, which I am sure they have, is irrelevant. The point was that upon launch, it was a mess - and nothing you say can change history. So yes, Vista was "legitimately bad" for the first 3-4 months after it was released. And because it was released with what seems to be zero testing on Microsoft's behalf, it ruined the faith and trust of another people who shunned the OS altogether and just stuck with Windows XP.

[baldgye]

Then you can set it to boot straight to desktop and then it is not different to Windows 7 really.

Except for it's biggest problem, the horrible new start menu.

[ynrozturk]

Then you can set it to boot straight to desktop and then it is not different to Windows 7 really.

Except for it's biggest problem, the horrible new start menu.

Just change it. So many people complain about this yet it literally takes less than 2 minutes to download something and set it up to your liking.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Windows ME wouldn't suddenly become better if you used it on modern hardware though. It was legitimately bad. Vista wasn't. I'm not trying to alter people's opinions, I'm just mocking them for being uninformed. You're seem to be in a rather confused position where you apparently are aware that Vista is no different from 7, but still under the impression Vista is bad somehow.

Fair enough. To clarify my perspective:

In situations that you describe, I could see where Vista could considered a good OS comparable to 7. But from personal experience with dealing with Vista, it just didn't seem that great to me.

[Oobly]

...you apparently are aware that Vista is no different from 7...

Um... right. Vista had poor driver support, UAC was crap, had more background processes run at startup, wasn't stable and the flashy graphics "features" weren't very well optimised. Win7 has a lot of the same features, but it is far more stable, has better driver support and more optimised and integrated peripheral / graphics support.

Here is a nice chart of some of the differences:


Going from XP to 7 was a good step (more stable and better overall performance, despite the flashier UI), but Win8 doesn't have any new feature / fix that I care about and I truly hate Metro, so I'll stick with 7.

[BakaPhoenix]

UAC is still ruining my life even on win 8

[Malphas]

Just saw this.

To make it clear, I wasn't presenting an argument. I was presenting facts. For nearly 2 months after Vista launched, the OS didn't have any drivers or proper support. That is not an argument. That is a cold hard fact.

If they improved it since then with updates and patches, which I am sure they have, is irrelevant. The point was that upon launch, it was a mess - and nothing you say can change history. So yes, Vista was "legitimately bad" for the first 3-4 months after it was released. And because it was released with what seems to be zero testing on Microsoft's behalf, it ruined the faith and trust of another people who shunned the OS altogether and just stuck with Windows XP.

Right, but people were Vista-bashing for years, right up until - and even after - 7 was launched, which the same people hailed as the greatest Microsoft OS ever - despite it being an incremental update. Same thing is happening/going to happen with Windows 8.

[DamienG]

UAC is still ruining my life even on win 8

Mac OS X has something very similar that requires your password every time.

[)amien

[BakaPhoenix]

UAC is still ruining my life even on win 8

Mac OS X has something very similar that requires your password every time.

[)amien

I use both and the uac is way more annoing that the mac. The mac ask you the pass only for program that have access to system files etc.
Uac simple ask you permission for everything.

[oscillik]

The mac ask you the pass only for program that have access to system files etc.

so does UAC...

[IvanIvanovich]

I only see UAC when installing and updating some programs. It only annoys me when I have to fight with it when making system file modifications/replace. If you are on standard user account, not 'admin' type account then perhaps it's more annoying and frequent.

[BakaPhoenix]

I only see UAC when installing and updating some programs. It only annoys me when I have to fight with it when making system file modifications/replace. If you are on standard user account, not 'admin' type account then perhaps it's more annoying and frequent.

I didn't knew that uac is less annoying in a non admin profile. I only use win for playing and i have an admin acc, for everything I install (even something stupid) it ask me permission and that black screen is so annoing :|

I usually disable it since i pointless if you know what are you doing, but everytime i need to fix others people pc i hate it (Considering that their pc is bloated with all the junk in the worls and sometime you have to wait even 15 sec to uac message pup out)

[rowdy]

Then you can set it to boot straight to desktop and then it is not different to Windows 7 really.

Except for it's biggest problem, the horrible new start menu.

Just change it. So many people complain about this yet it literally takes less than 2 minutes to download something and set it up to your liking.

Isn't this the point - that the latest and greatest operating system from Microsoft is severely lacking in at least that one obvious and frequently used area?  If 8 was so much better, why is everyone (lots of people) trying to make it look and operate like 7?

UAC is still ruining my life even on win 8

Mac OS X has something very similar that requires your password every time.

[)amien

This is common across most Unix-like operating systems.  Instead of logging in as root (superuser) to adjust system files, you "sudo" - temporarily become super user, provided you have permission to do so.

I only see UAC when installing and updating some programs. It only annoys me when I have to fight with it when making system file modifications/replace. If you are on standard user account, not 'admin' type account then perhaps it's more annoying and frequent.

What gets me (with 7) is trying to delete an open file (before I realise it is open).  Delete fails, Windows asks "do you want to try again with administrative privileges?".  I say yes, and it fails again.  Damnit Windows, just tell me the file is open by such-and-such a process in the first place.

[SpAmRaY]

What gets me (with 7) is trying to delete an open file (before I realise it is open).  Delete fails, Windows asks "do you want to try again with administrative privileges?".  I say yes, and it fails again.  Damnit Windows, just tell me the file is open by such-and-such a process in the first place.

That's actually good info to know anyways for when you want to delete something and can't figure out what does have it open....