Author Topic: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted  (Read 3781 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 1pq

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: East Coast USA
  • Hipster Doofus
Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 21:39:35 »
I've heard from VesperSaint ergo clears don't feel very good on pcb mounted setups. How do other people feel about this? I'm interested in getting either an ergodox with ergo-clears or a modded QFR or filco. I'd like to try an ergodox, but I'm worried that the ergo clears won't feel as nice...

EDIT: Meant to say that pcb mounted ergo-clears don't feel AS good, not that they don't feel good at all. See Vesper's response below
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:25:39 by 1pq »
main kbs:  87UB (55g)  Custom Filco TKL (62g clears)

WTS JD40, Custom Ergoclear Filco

WTB ROHS Red BBv2 (Topre), OG EK Tri-Color Skull (TOPRE)

Offline VesperSAINT

  • vpsert
  • Posts: 5588
  • Location: Tampa, Flouda
  • #CustomKorean
    • My Youtube channel with some keyboard videos
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 21:54:45 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

Offline Pacifist

  • Report me *again* if there are gifs in my sig
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3599
  • Location: Cali
  • on hiatus
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:08:00 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Offline VesperSAINT

  • vpsert
  • Posts: 5588
  • Location: Tampa, Flouda
  • #CustomKorean
    • My Youtube channel with some keyboard videos
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:13:00 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

Offline Pacifist

  • Report me *again* if there are gifs in my sig
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3599
  • Location: Cali
  • on hiatus
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:14:19 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

Offline VesperSAINT

  • vpsert
  • Posts: 5588
  • Location: Tampa, Flouda
  • #CustomKorean
    • My Youtube channel with some keyboard videos
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:21:01 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

Offline Pacifist

  • Report me *again* if there are gifs in my sig
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3599
  • Location: Cali
  • on hiatus
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:23:15 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

originative thick lube for all parts.

Offline 1pq

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: East Coast USA
  • Hipster Doofus
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:29:12 »
I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

How much does using different lubes for different parts matter? Most of the people I've talked to buying boards from either forget what type of lube they've used, or don't seem to think it's important (*sigh*). Talking to you, though, it seems like it makes a difference.

Ugh, I'm thinking of putting of buying this ergo clear board and just building it myself...
Although with a custom plate you can easily re-lube the switches, right?

LOL sorry for taking this so off topic :P
main kbs:  87UB (55g)  Custom Filco TKL (62g clears)

WTS JD40, Custom Ergoclear Filco

WTB ROHS Red BBv2 (Topre), OG EK Tri-Color Skull (TOPRE)

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6427
  • comfortably numb
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:33:38 »
I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

How much does using different lubes for different parts matter? Most of the people I've talked to buying boards from either forget what type of lube they've used, or don't seem to think it's important (*sigh*). Talking to you, though, it seems like it makes a difference.

Ugh, I'm thinking of putting of buying this ergo clear board and just building it myself...
Although with a custom plate you can easily re-lube the switches, right?

LOL sorry for taking this so off topic :P

If you're worried about messing something up you could always pay for lubing services from some of our members here. No shame it that as long as you wind up with what you want.
And lubed ergo-clears are god-teir for MX switches, although having since tried a board with lubed pandas, that's the route I would've gone if I could do it over again.

Offline MKULTRA

  • Posts: 1197
  • Location: IN
  • telling it how it is
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:34:48 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

originative thick lube for all parts.
*insert facepalm here*

Offline HPE1000

  • Keycap Paparazzo
  • Posts: 2943
  • Location: Carolina Beach, NC
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:38:36 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

originative thick lube for all parts.
*insert facepalm here*

mkawa said that was the way to go

Offline VesperSAINT

  • vpsert
  • Posts: 5588
  • Location: Tampa, Flouda
  • #CustomKorean
    • My Youtube channel with some keyboard videos
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:42:03 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

originative thick lube for all parts.
*insert facepalm here*

:)) that's what i was thinking LOLOL.

It should be Krytox mix for side of switch stem, tiny amounts on the actual tactile bump. Victorinox in the hole of the bottom switch housing, and on the bottom of the stem, and pretty much wherever the spring touches the stem. Also make sure to lube your stabilizers with something like superlube.

In the end however, as long as you added some kind of lube to clears, it's better than nothing! You should be happy with whatever comes out.

Offline Pacifist

  • Report me *again* if there are gifs in my sig
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3599
  • Location: Cali
  • on hiatus
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:43:45 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

originative thick lube for all parts.
*insert facepalm here*

:)) that's what i was thinking LOLOL.

It should be Krytox mix for side of switch stem, tiny amounts on the actual tactile bump. Victorinox in the hole of the bottom switch housing, and on the bottom of the stem, and pretty much wherever the spring touches the stem. Also make sure to lube your stabilizers with something like superlube.

In the end however, as long as you added some kind of lube to clears, it's better than nothing! You should be happy with whatever comes out.

oh. I just put the originative mix in the places that the lube guide here said to put it. Guess its pretty technical to lube.

Offline MKULTRA

  • Posts: 1197
  • Location: IN
  • telling it how it is
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:44:58 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

originative thick lube for all parts.
*insert facepalm here*

:)) that's what i was thinking LOLOL.

It should be Krytox mix for side of switch stem, tiny amounts on the actual tactile bump. Victorinox in the hole of the bottom switch housing, and on the bottom of the stem, and pretty much wherever the spring touches the stem. Also make sure to lube your stabilizers with something like superlube.

In the end however, as long as you added some kind of lube to clears, it's better than nothing! You should be happy with whatever comes out.

oh. I just put the originative mix in the places that the lube guide here said to put it. Guess its pretty technical to lube.
u wot m8??

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34332.0

Offline VesperSAINT

  • vpsert
  • Posts: 5588
  • Location: Tampa, Flouda
  • #CustomKorean
    • My Youtube channel with some keyboard videos
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:46:27 »
If you're not willing to dish out around $200 for a premade one, or spend the 20 or so hours modding, your next best bet is to buy a Cherry keyboard (like the keyboards made by the brand Cherry) that is PCB mounted. This means that you won't have to desolder anything to mod the switches, as PCB mount keyboards allow for switch opening because there's no plate in the way. However, I find that plate mounted keyboards are more sturdy and feel better than PCB mounted for ergo-clears.

Just in case people misunderstand. PCB mounted keyboards in no way "don't feel good," but rather most people prefer plate-mounted keyboards for the sturdiness. Either way, if you go ergo-clears, it should feel great no matter what.

I look forward to seeing whatever you end up with  :thumb: Ergo-clears for life!

I'm almost ready to do that. My cherry board is 1/2 modded with lubed ergo clears, can't wait until I finish

Keep up the fight! As long as you're lubing it correctly, it should end up feeling glorious.

I'm lubing the 62g limited springs and the sliders with genourous amounts of lube, hope its worth the time. Its pretty time consuming

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

originative thick lube for all parts.
*insert facepalm here*

:)) that's what i was thinking LOLOL.

It should be Krytox mix for side of switch stem, tiny amounts on the actual tactile bump. Victorinox in the hole of the bottom switch housing, and on the bottom of the stem, and pretty much wherever the spring touches the stem. Also make sure to lube your stabilizers with something like superlube.

In the end however, as long as you added some kind of lube to clears, it's better than nothing! You should be happy with whatever comes out.

oh. I just put the originative mix in the places that the lube guide here said to put it. Guess its pretty technical to lube.
u wot m8??

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34332.0

Yeah, that's pretty much how I did it :))

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 624
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 23:29:03 »
I've heard from VesperSaint ergo clears don't feel very good on pcb mounted setups. How do other people feel about this? I'm interested in getting either an ergodox with ergo-clears or a modded QFR or filco. I'd like to try an ergodox, but I'm worried that the ergo clears won't feel as nice...

EDIT: Meant to say that pcb mounted ergo-clears don't feel AS good, not that they don't feel good at all. See Vesper's response below

As already clarified by Vespersaint, your question has more to do with the preference between pcb mounted boards and plate mounted boards than the ergoclear switch; lubed the same way, the switch is a constant. The difference in feel is only due to the mounting method, which is no different than comparing plated mounted blues against pcb mounted blues.

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

How much does using different lubes for different parts matter? Most of the people I've talked to buying boards from either forget what type of lube they've used, or don't seem to think it's important (*sigh*). Talking to you, though, it seems like it makes a difference.

Ugh, I'm thinking of putting of buying this ergo clear board and just building it myself...
Although with a custom plate you can easily re-lube the switches, right?

LOL sorry for taking this so off topic :P

If we're going to compare lubing methods, basically we're going into a very nit picky area.

I believe the original rationale for using victorinox for the springs is more of a cost saving decision. Krytox was alot harder (and expensive to get back then). You could lube all the parts with properly mixed krytox with no issues, which brings us to viscosity.

Before mkawa began providing pre-mixed lube, most of us who did the mod mixed the grease and oil ourselves (in a 1 to 1 ratio), and in such cases, different ratios yield very subtle (but still noticeable) differences in results.

I'm not sure how thick the premixed lubes are, but I believe it shouldn't be that thick that it will cause problems with applied to springs, or any other part for that matter.

A higher amount of grease vs oil (meaning a more viscous mixture) will have a muting effect on the switches, as well as more buttery smooth. This alters the feel of the switch a little more, to a point.

A higher amount of oil vs grease (a thinner, watery mixture) is slicker, snappier, closer to stock, but still smooth.

A mixture that's too thick - assuming an extreme case of using gpl 205 alone, that's applied 'generously' will gum up the switch. For pure grease, only using a thin film of it is important. On the other extreme, using only 103 alone is too thin and will cause the lube to 'run'.

You can think of it this way - for those who prefer grease, adding a little bit of 103 oil prevents the switch from gumming up when applied generously.

For those who prefer more oil, mixing in 205 grease allows for generous application while preventing the oil from running all over the switch housing.

By mixing the two, a middle ground can be achieved which allows the option of using more than a thin film of lube; personally I go with a mixture of high grease to oil ratio (as high as I can go without gumming the switches) AND applying generously. The opposite is possible, using as much oil as you can mixed with grease to give it a higher viscosity so it doesn't run when applied generously.

This is the nitpicky part; for those who can't be bothered about such things, all lube feels pretty much the same. I was able to get really decent results using cheaper lubes like superlube mixtures, with similar results to using krytox; the only difference is that superlube degrades (I found it yellowed after about 2 months of use), while the krytox looks pretty much the same as when I applied it after similar periods of time, which why the reason why I switched to krytox instead).

But if you want to go into the nitty gritty of lubing mx switches, there are factors such as mixing ratios, application points, actual amounts applied, that can affect the final result (very subtly). Or you could simply grab a brush, lube away, close the switches up and never think about it again. It's probably easier to go with the latter.

Hope this helps. ;)

| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline Fullcream

  • Posts: 147
  • Location: Australia
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 23:34:20 »
That was very valuable to me. Thanks.

Offline VesperSAINT

  • vpsert
  • Posts: 5588
  • Location: Tampa, Flouda
  • #CustomKorean
    • My Youtube channel with some keyboard videos
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 23:36:53 »
I've heard from VesperSaint ergo clears don't feel very good on pcb mounted setups. How do other people feel about this? I'm interested in getting either an ergodox with ergo-clears or a modded QFR or filco. I'd like to try an ergodox, but I'm worried that the ergo clears won't feel as nice...

EDIT: Meant to say that pcb mounted ergo-clears don't feel AS good, not that they don't feel good at all. See Vesper's response below

As already clarified by Vespersaint, your question has more to do with the preference between pcb mounted boards and plate mounted boards than the ergoclear switch; lubed the same way, the switch is a constant. The difference in feel is only due to the mounting method, which is no different than comparing plated mounted blues against pcb mounted blues.

I just hope you're using the right lube for the right parts.

How much does using different lubes for different parts matter? Most of the people I've talked to buying boards from either forget what type of lube they've used, or don't seem to think it's important (*sigh*). Talking to you, though, it seems like it makes a difference.

Ugh, I'm thinking of putting of buying this ergo clear board and just building it myself...
Although with a custom plate you can easily re-lube the switches, right?

LOL sorry for taking this so off topic :P

If we're going to compare lubing methods, basically we're going into a very nit picky area.

I believe the original rationale for using victorinox for the springs is more of a cost saving decision. Krytox was alot harder (and expensive to get back then). You could lube all the parts with properly mixed krytox with no issues, which brings us to viscosity.

Before mkawa began providing pre-mixed lube, most of us who did the mod mixed the grease and oil ourselves (in a 1 to 1 ratio), and in such cases, different ratios yield very subtle (but still noticeable) differences in results.

I'm not sure how thick the premixed lubes are, but I believe it shouldn't be that thick that it will cause problems with applied to springs, or any other part for that matter.

A higher amount of grease vs oil (meaning a more viscous mixture) will have a muting effect on the switches, as well as more buttery smooth. This alters the feel of the switch a little more, to a point.

A higher amount of oil vs grease (a thinner, watery mixture) is slicker, snappier, closer to stock, but still smooth.

A mixture that's too thick - assuming an extreme case of using gpl 205 alone, that's applied 'generously' will gum up the switch. For pure grease, only using a thin film of it is important. On the other extreme, using only 103 alone is too thin and will cause the lube to 'run'.

You can think of it this way - for those who prefer grease, adding a little bit of 103 oil prevents the switch from gumming up when applied generously.

For those who prefer more oil, mixing in 205 grease allows for generous application while preventing the oil from running all over the switch housing.

By mixing the two, a middle ground can be achieved which allows the option of using more than a thin film of lube; personally I go with a mixture of high grease to oil ratio (as high as I can go without gumming the switches) AND applying generously. The opposite is possible, using as much oil as you can mixed with grease to give it a higher viscosity so it doesn't run when applied generously.

This is the nitpicky part; for those who can't be bothered about such things, all lube feels pretty much the same. I was able to get really decent results using cheaper lubes like superlube mixtures, with similar results to using krytox; the only difference is that superlube degrades (I found it yellowed after about 2 months of use), while the krytox looks pretty much the same as when I applied it after similar periods of time, which why the reason why I switched to krytox instead).

But if you want to go into the nitty gritty of lubing mx switches, there are factors such as mixing ratios, application points, actual amounts applied, that can affect the final result (very subtly). Or you could simply grab a brush, lube away, close the switches up and never think about it again. It's probably easier to go with the latter.

Hope this helps. ;)



Larken, I'm having nostalgia from our essay-length discussions we had in the older ergo-clear threads :))

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 624
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 23:39:58 »

Larken, I'm having nostalgia from our essay-length discussions we had in the older ergo-clear threads :))

That thread still has lotsa of good info, though I imagine that it's been buried far far back in the pages.

Btw Vesper, consider trying out the trampoline mod when you have the chance. Basically it has the same (but larger) effect as putting oil in the housing hole. It's awesome for getting rid of the thock :D
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6288
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 09 December 2013, 01:24:57 »
I sort-of like PCB mount, but the flex can get to be an issue especially with wider keyboards with little support (like the G80-8113 and 8200, the poker X to a lesser degree) One excellent solution is to have a PCB mounted to a metal tray.

One of my first ergo clear keyboards is such a one. A non backlit pure mounted to a bar of metal. It feels good to type on, and is in no way worse than my plate mounted phantom (62g clears)

Offline Moosecraft

  • HHKB Pro
  • Posts: 734
  • Location: Sweden
Re: Ergo Clears: Plate Mounted vs PCB Mounted
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 09 December 2013, 04:34:56 »
My pcb mounted pure in alu case feels really solid, stainless steel plates feel really nice though.
I am bigfatmc over at other places!