Author Topic: Is Hall Effect still a thing?  (Read 6799 times)

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Offline Emission

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Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 15:25:14 »
And by that, I mean is it still a kind of switch that's readily available?

From what I've read, they're essentially the Cadillac of linear switches, and it would be sweet if I could give them a try and possibly get my hands on a keyboard that uses them.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 15:26:57 »
Yes, you can get them on eBay. Talk to dorkvader, he knows a lot about them.

Example: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52269.0

Offline Emission

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 16:37:21 »
Thank you CPTBadAss! That thread is quite nice, those are some amazing images of the keyboard. I'll have to look around to see if anyone else has any experience with the hall effect switches and say hello to dorkvader.
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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 16:47:29 »
As far as I understand, RAFI still make Hall effect-based switches (the RS 76C series):

http://www.rafi.de/RS-76-full-travel-keyswitches.165.0.html?&L=1

(I assume that you were referring to Micro Switch Hall effect switches, of course, but they were not the only company to make them.)
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Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 16:55:49 »
I'm the owner of the keyboard in CPT's link. I'm actually running a tour of a hall effect keypad, so if you'd like to join the tour you can get a feel for the switches without needing to put any cash down for a board (Just enough money to ship the board to the next person on the tour.) http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52033.msg1149709#msg1149709

If you end up liking them, it's possible to get em off ebay like cap said, but they won't work on modern computers. Hopefully, with some help from more knowledgeable members, I can use my process in restoring the board in cap's link to create a bit of a guide for others wishing to do the same.

Offline Emission

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 22:50:12 »
@CommunistWitchDr: That sounds interesting! I'm new to the forums and don't have much rep around here, but I do have heatware, not sure if it means anything. Is there a deadline for registering for the tour? I'll double check the thread.

@Daniel Beardsmore: I wasn't really sure how to refer to them other than "hall-effect," I only discovered recently that there was more than one manufacturer who made them. Back when they were popular, was there a switch of preference? I noticed that RAFI offers two types, a contact and a contactless switch. I'm interested in the prospect of building my own keyboard if that's what it comes down to. I'm proficient in soldering, small scale electronics, and microcontrollers.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 22 January 2014, 01:14:39 »
Recently MECI sold a lot of hall effect switches from microswitch, but I assume they were NOS, as none more have appeared.

The RAFI uses a different sort of design than microswitch. I don't know of any currently produced hall effect switches that use a sensor like microswitch used.

Of course, there might be some tiny company in eastern europe that still makes some clones.

Offline PhineasRex

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 22 January 2014, 07:23:51 »
I wonder what the viablity is of harvesting Hall Effect switches for a custom board. Obviously keycaps would be a problem.

Offline mr_a500

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 22 January 2014, 07:51:33 »
There is still one hall effect clone for sale:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/221353127211


I bought one to attempt a keycap replacement on my Microswitch hall effect keypad. (hope the damn things fit)

Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 22 January 2014, 11:34:11 »
@CommunistWitchDr: That sounds interesting! I'm new to the forums and don't have much rep around here, but I do have heatware, not sure if it means anything. Is there a deadline for registering for the tour? I'll double check the thread.

@Daniel Beardsmore: I wasn't really sure how to refer to them other than "hall-effect," I only discovered recently that there was more than one manufacturer who made them. Back when they were popular, was there a switch of preference? I noticed that RAFI offers two types, a contact and a contactless switch. I'm interested in the prospect of building my own keyboard if that's what it comes down to. I'm proficient in soldering, small scale electronics, and microcontrollers.

Heatware is fine too. No deadline yet, and after the tour starts I'm fine with people jumping in as long as they get in before the CONUS part of the tour is up. So plenty of time to join.

I wonder what the viablity is of harvesting Hall Effect switches for a custom board. Obviously keycaps would be a problem.
Depends on the keyboard. Some hall switches are multiple pieces, with part of the switch being mounted directly to the board and the rest being held on by a metal plate. Others have totally self contained switches.

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 22 January 2014, 21:51:22 »
I think Cherry corp also makes keyboards with Hall Effect switches, though there is a minimum order queue of I think 10. There is a guy on reddit channel that is looking for interests on group buy with the Cherry made Hall Effect keyboard. It was priced somewhere around USD$200-USD$300 but don't quote me on it.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 22 January 2014, 23:03:19 »
Depends on the keyboard. Some hall switches are multiple pieces, with part of the switch being mounted directly to the board and the rest being held on by a metal plate. Others have totally self contained switches.
We are now calling them "Honeywell Dual Magnet Hall Effect" and "Honeywell Hall Effect". There is some evidence suggesting the "Dual Magnet" is older, but they were co-produced for a number of years.

I think Cherry corp also makes keyboards with Hall Effect switches, though there is a minimum order queue of I think 10. There is a guy on reddit channel that is looking for interests on group buy with the Cherry made Hall Effect keyboard. It was priced somewhere around USD$200-USD$300 but don't quote me on it.
Hmm, I've never heard of this and would be very interested in learning more.
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 January 2014, 23:05:19 by dorkvader »

Offline Emission

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 22 January 2014, 23:12:16 »
I did a bit of brief research and I can't find anything on Cherry's website that's made specifically for keyboard use that utilizes a hall effect design. I'd be interested in buying the keyboard if they actually did produce these.

I need to find a source for a quality hall effect switch that I could use to build my own keyboard with if there's absolutely nothing modern out there that's USB or PS/2.
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Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 06:31:31 »
dorkvader && Emission: https://pay.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/1o3jyt/it_had_a_very_firm_linear_feel_too_firm/

I was referred to this via ZeDestructor on reddit Mechanical keyboard IRC channel awhile ago.
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Offline Krogenar

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 07:45:06 »
I think Cherry corp also makes keyboards with Hall Effect switches, though there is a minimum order queue of I think 10. There is a guy on reddit channel that is looking for interests on group buy with the Cherry made Hall Effect keyboard. It was priced somewhere around USD$200-USD$300 but don't quote me on it.
Hmm, I've never heard of this and would be very interested in learning more.

Me too! I checked with RAFI about their HE keyboard and it was extremely expensive ($600+) with a minimum order of four -- so that's not gonna happen. Also, someone over at DT has the RAFI keyboard and wasn't ecstatic about it's keyfeel. But if Cherry were to make a modern HE keyboard I would be very interested.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 17:32:48 »
I think Cherry corp also makes keyboards with Hall Effect switches, though there is a minimum order queue of I think 10. There is a guy on reddit channel that is looking for interests on group buy with the Cherry made Hall Effect keyboard. It was priced somewhere around USD$200-USD$300 but don't quote me on it.

Links to this Cherry HE please. Something other than reddit.

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 19:42:45 »
Sadly my only source available is from reddit. I don't know of any other sources to go by for Cherry HE switches.
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Offline Emission

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 24 January 2014, 08:24:02 »
I might just have to give them a call and see what I can dig up.
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Offline HaaTa

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 27 January 2014, 14:10:48 »
I've been thinking about using hall effect for one of my switch re-creation projects rather than doing optical. Should be only a little bit more expensive, and opens up doing analog switches.
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Offline ZeDestructor

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 07:50:56 »
Well, tuxsavvy linked me here (from IRC) regarding Hall-Effect switches:

Short story: I went to CeBIT Australia in 2013, and over there, Cherry had a small stand, and they were showing off a few boards.

I had a chat with one of their guys over there, and while talking about the Cherry MX switches, I mentioned how nobody makes Hall-Effect switches these days. The guy then told me that they do make Hall-Effect switches, but purely by custom order due to the very low demand. They basically have the same problem Unicomp has with the Hall-Effect boards: they're too sturdy and don't break, meaning nobody needs replacements or spare parts. The guy also told me that Cherry would happily build it if asked, but naturally, being Cherry, they don't do individual orders: it's just too much trouble, so I haven't bothered yet. If I can find 10-15 people interested in a groupbuy, I'll happily contact them regarding it, but for now given I know maybe 5 people interested, it's not happening.

Disclaimer: the guy at the stand may have been misinformed, after all, he wasn't an engineer or production manager, but as an Account Manager, I expect him to know the range of switches they have in order to sell to customers.

And no, you will not get anything more solid than this, since, well, it's impossible to prove a verbal communication.
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 January 2014, 07:56:00 by ZeDestructor »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 08:02:31 »
Thanks for sharing ZeDestructor. I'd be interested in a Cherry made hall effect board...or really any hall effect board really. I enjoyed the one I tried when dorkvader visited.

Offline ZeDestructor

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 08:12:14 »
Oh, and I completely forgot (until tuxsavvy pointed out Emission was trying to find some concrete info): one the boards at the Cherry stand at CeBIT was apparently a Hall Effect (so I was told, and it didn't feel or sound like any MX series) and had a USB cable (probably with PS/2 capability as well). Really just a case of convincing them if they do produce the boards (for about $200 I was told).

As I said, find me 10 people so I can go ask for a decent number!

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 08:16:55 »
As I said, find me 10 people so I can go ask for a decent number!

Ask first, look for ten people later?

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 08:19:01 »
Oh, and I completely forgot (until tuxsavvy pointed out Emission was trying to find some concrete info): one the boards at the Cherry stand at CeBIT was apparently a Hall Effect (so I was told, and it didn't feel or sound like any MX series) and had a USB cable (probably with PS/2 capability as well). Really just a case of convincing them if they do produce the boards (for about $200 I was told).

As I said, find me 10 people so I can go ask for a decent number!
That statement in bold:
I might just have to give them a call and see what I can dig up.

So maybe these recent posts may give Emission some more incentives to go ring them up I suppose. Anyway CPTBadAss, both ZeDestructor and myself are on IRC now.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 08:23:20 »
So maybe these recent posts may give Emission some more incentives to go ring them up I suppose. Anyway CPTBadAss, both ZeDestructor and myself are on IRC now.

You guys should definitely talk to dorkvader if you're on #geekhack. He's really into hall effect boards and I'm sure he'd love to know more or at least talk.

Offline ZeDestructor

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 08:35:47 »
As I said, find me 10 people so I can go ask for a decent number!

Ask first, look for ten people later?

It's much easier to get a useful reply out of large vendors when you can say "I've got 10 people right now who almost certain going to pay for the boards" than any other way. Corporate talks in $$$, so I talk to them in kind.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 08:44:26 »
As I said, find me 10 people so I can go ask for a decent number!

Ask first, look for ten people later?

It's much easier to get a useful reply out of large vendors when you can say "I've got 10 people right now who almost certain going to pay for the boards" than any other way. Corporate talks in $$$, so I talk to them in kind.

The problem for me committing money is that I have a few posts to judge this information on. I'd like something more concrete such as a picture, a Cherry representative commenting, or someone else saying "Hey, I have a Cherry Hall Effect board...". Not that I don't believe you but it's a bit hopeful to expect ten people to pledge $200 on something sight unseen, with little info.

Which is why I'm suggesting you ask first for more details. What layout is the board? What caps does the board use? Are you sure it's both PS/2 and USB? Are you sure of the cost? Is the MOQ 10 people?

There are a lot of questions that I'd like answered before I commit any money, that's my point here.

Offline ZeDestructor

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 09:58:00 »
As I said, find me 10 people so I can go ask for a decent number!

Ask first, look for ten people later?

It's much easier to get a useful reply out of large vendors when you can say "I've got 10 people right now who almost certain going to pay for the boards" than any other way. Corporate talks in $$$, so I talk to them in kind.

The problem for me committing money is that I have a few posts to judge this information on. I'd like something more concrete such as a picture, a Cherry representative commenting, or someone else saying "Hey, I have a Cherry Hall Effect board...". Not that I don't believe you but it's a bit hopeful to expect ten people to pledge $200 on something sight unseen, with little info.

Which is why I'm suggesting you ask first for more details. What layout is the board? What caps does the board use? Are you sure it's both PS/2 and USB? Are you sure of the cost? Is the MOQ 10 people?

There are a lot of questions that I'd like answered before I commit any money, that's my point here.

That's fine. I understand what you mean.

What I'm looking is 10 people interested in it (75+% probability of buying), not an actual pledge, that comes afterwards

For the other stuff (I really regret not taking pictures):

1. Layout: Standard layouts, meaning ANSI/ISO. As I recall, the one I played with was an extended ANSI layout.
2. Caps: black (on black chassis). ABS most likely based on the shininess. Pad printed labels as I recall. No idea about how it's mounted. I felt that it would've been highly impolite to pull a cap off in the middle of an expo floor.
3. Bus: USB was native, but after having pored over controller datasheets (and the non-existence of NKRO over USB for MX at the time), I'm 80% sure it supported PS/2 as well via a passive adapter.
4. Cost: Like I said, I was told they sold them for around $200. These are likely for large orders, so I'm expecting 250-300 for small numbers, but I was quite obviously an enthusiast when I was talking, not a corporate buyer, so the guy may well have given me small order pricing.
5. MOQ: This is pure guesswork, but here's my train of thought: each board has at least 104 switches, and 10 boards is 1040 switches. The big issue is likely producing the switch itself. if you can get the switches produced, having the assembly done on a small number of actual boards is a small amount of extra effort: It's still just placing and soldering, something that has to be done with MX switches as well. Based on the thickness of the board, the switch seemed like the same size as an MX switch, so there's a good chance they have the same plate mount too, which makes the whole thing a LOT easier: place switch, place PCB, off to the solder bath, add diodes/caps/resistors/ICs later by baking.

Ask as much as you want guys, and I'll answer as best I can. :)

I may have mis-phrased it a bit above though. I need interest in buying 10 keyboards, not 10 keyboards worth of pledged money.

Offline HaaTa

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 10:28:33 »
Well, I'd be interested.
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Offline wrwhoami

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 11:00:33 »
YEP!
Hall Effect still

Offline Krogenar

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 12:49:18 »
$200 for a HE keyboard from Cherry is something I would be interested in buying.
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Offline Parak

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 14:42:22 »
I'd be potentially interested, but that would have to depend if we can get more information on the switch. Mechanical diagrams, spec sheets, pictures, anything really. WIthout knowing anything about the switches, it's a bit hard to make even an interest decision :/

Offline Tarzan

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 15:59:51 »
Put me down as interested.  The devil is in the details, of course, but I'm willing to be counted as a potential buyer.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 17:59:57 »
I'd be potentially interested, but that would have to depend if we can get more information on the switch. Mechanical diagrams, spec sheets, pictures, anything really. WIthout knowing anything about the switches, it's a bit hard to make even an interest decision :/

This. I'd almost certainly be interested either way, but Cherry is notorious for having excellent engineering and quality in part of their design (cable, switches, etc.) and terrible engineering / quality in other aspects (case, pcb, etc.) That said, I'm sure we can drum up enough interest to at least get them to give us some info on these.

Anyway, Put me down as a potential buyer: anyone who wants to manage interest for this and talk to ZF about it.

Offline dgreekstallion

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 30 January 2014, 19:53:16 »
Also put me down as a potential buyer; these hall effect switches sound divine.
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Offline Emission

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 02 February 2014, 20:57:02 »
Sign me up as well, I'd love to own a modern board with hall-effect switches.
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Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 02 February 2014, 22:23:49 »
I'd be potentially interested in buying one. It might be a good idea to set up a real interest check thread for this, to get a better gauge of interest. A title like "IC: Cherry-made Hall Effect keyboard" would probably draw a lot more traffic than this title.

Offline PRISONER 24601

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Re: Is Hall Effect still a thing?
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 05 February 2014, 12:08:52 »
This is relevant to my interests. I'm down for one.
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