Ergodox with Trackpoint (possible?)

[rethus]

Hi,
have an ErogDox and think about to add a Trackpoint to it.
Are there Ideas, how this could be made?

[Vibex]

I'm not much of an engineer, so I can't really help creating it, but this would be awesome.

[davkol]

Have you read the early posts in the ergodox thread?

[clickclack123]

Hi,
have an ErogDox and think about to add a Trackpoint to it.
Are there Ideas, how this could be made?

I think it would be hard to fit in there, but I'm keen to see your results.

[spuriousgeorge]

It would be amazing if someone pulled one off.

Which side of the board would it go on?

Would it go on both?

[Folio]

It would be amazing if someone pulled one off.

Which side of the board would it go on?

Would it go on both?

I feel like the mouse buttons should be included on both sides too. Sometimes I use my left thumb for the left click.

[rethus]

I can imagine to have it right beside the first thumbbutton on the right hand.
But also a good question is: Where are the mouse-buttons. Is it possible to use an own ergodox-layer to have as much mousebuttons as you need (and where you want) on the keypad?

Even a Trackball would be a great enhancement for the ergodox.

[davkol]

Yes.

[Lain1911]

If you can imagine it you can achieve it.

[Sniping]

I'm pretty sure someone did this before and posted it on the Post your Ergodox thread.

[clickclack123]

I'm pretty sure someone did this before and posted it on the Post your Ergodox thread.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Sniping]

http://oyen.in/Deskthority/Dox10.jpg
Not sure if that's what you're thinking of.

[clickclack123]

http://oyen.in/Deskthority/Dox10.jpg
Not sure if that's what you're thinking of.

Beautiful work but that's not what I was thinking of, I was thinking about a trackpoint built into the ergodox, not separate.

I can imagine to have it right beside the first thumbbutton on the right hand.
But also a good question is: Where are the mouse-buttons. Is it possible to use an own ergodox-layer to have as much mousebuttons as you need (and where you want) on the keypad?

You can do this with TMK firmware, just set up a layer like hasu's hhkb layout (layer 3 here).

[the-kenny]

See page #121 of the Discussion section on Massdrop: https://d3jqoivu6qpygv.cloudfront.net/img_comment/K727RF_20140317_210811_10EJ6.png

(Not mine, but I want to replicate this. Does anyone know if those trackpoint modules are available somewhere?)

[plainbriny]

This thread is really interesting, so I take a trackpoint module from my dead R61



Unfortunately I ripped one of the pads (GND)


and have to trace and connect to other place, but I am not sure whether the connections are good or not


Pinout: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8971.0
Other attemot: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50176.0
PS/2 to USB converter by hasu: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14618.0

Currently I lack a 2.2 uF capacitor, will connect when I get hold of this


I think I can put this module on my ergodox by removing one key (one of the inner 1.5x key in the right hand side), but before that, I need to make the trackpoint module work with teensy...

UPDATE:
buttons are working, press-to-scroll is working, but I can not move the cursor
keep debugging...
also, any one know which pins on teensy are available? We need two to connect trackpoint.

[clickclack123]

UPDATE:
buttons are working, press-to-scroll is working, but I can not move the cursor
keep debugging...
also, any one know which pins on teensy are available? We need two to connect trackpoint.

Excellent work. Could you attach wires to the two unused pins on the top of the teensy that don't have pins attached to the ergodox? I don't have time to check the schematic right now.

[tricheboars]

[plainbriny]

UPDATE:
buttons are working, press-to-scroll is working, but I can not move the cursor
keep debugging...
also, any one know which pins on teensy are available? We need two to connect trackpoint.

Excellent work. Could you attach wires to the two unused pins on the top of the teensy that don't have pins attached to the ergodox? I don't have time to check the schematic right now.

PD4, PD5 are not connected and should be usable, also PC7 and PD7 though have pins attached, should be available as well.
The trackpoint module is working now, the button 2 was short and pushing the trackpoint translated to scrolling. It is now fixed.
Now I need to desolder the inner lower 1.5x key in the right hand side, to make room for the trackpoint, and figure out a good way to attach the trackpoint module.

[plainbriny]

The trackpoint module has been connected to teensy and it works.
Now I need to figure out a way to firmly attach it.
I didn't use the buttons in the trackpoint module, instead, I use mouse keys and two thumb keys as mouse keys.



It is really fun to make things work!!

A closer look



Comments or suggestions?

[plainbriny]

After a day of use, I found something to be improved
1. mouse key support are limited in functionality comparing to the buttons in the trackpoint module, therefore I intend to add connections to buttons, but where to put the buttons is a question
2. the trackpoint module in theory can be further separated, this way it can be placed in a regular ergodox (ie with case) without much modification

The firmware support is really trivial, if using tmk firmware, just modify config.h and add:

Code: [Select]

/* PS/2 mouse */
#ifdef PS2_USE_BUSYWAIT
#   define PS2_CLOCK_PORT  PORTD
#   define PS2_CLOCK_PIN   PIND
#   define PS2_CLOCK_DDR   DDRD
#   define PS2_CLOCK_BIT   4
#   define PS2_DATA_PORT   PORTD
#   define PS2_DATA_PIN    PIND
#   define PS2_DATA_DDR    DDRD
#   define PS2_DATA_BIT    5
#endif

I use the two unused pins PD4 and PD5 in teensy, if wiring to other pins, just make changes accordingly

also modify Makefile, adding:

Code: [Select]

PS2_MOUSE_ENABLE = yes # PS/2 mouse(TrackPoint) support
PS2_USE_BUSYWAIT = yes
and

Code: [Select]

include $(TOP_DIR)/protocol.mk


make and upload the firmware and it should work

[rethus]

Wow, really great work.
Would love, if you could create a nice HowTo, so that other (not such talented ) can create such a Trackpoint too.

BTW: I have create a ErgoDox G+ Community. There are also a ShowCase. Would love to see some of your nice ErgoDox there. …show it, and be proud of it 

https://plus.google.com/communities/109400630855573597922

[plainbriny]

Thanks.

Actually I found all the relevant info in geekhack.
Will see what I can do with a detailed howto.

Basically it can be done in the following steps:
1. get a trackpoint module

    There's not much I can say about this. I have got two trackpoint modules from a R40 keyboard, and the other from a R61.

2. find out the pinout, will need to know data, clock, vcc, ground, and pins for buttons

     The pinouts can be found in this thread:
     http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8971.0

     There are different pinouts. Luckily the two I got are both covered in that thread.
     For convenience, I have attached some pictures.

     This is the one from a R40 keyboard. I have labelled relevant pins (there are two extra pins).
     Front:
     
     Back:
     

     This is the one from a R61 keyboard. The GND pin is connected to some where else, because I have accidentally ripped the trace
     Front:
     
     Back:
     

     I also attached a pdf file with all these info together.

3. wire it to teensy or controller, you need two pins for clock and data, you can connect vcc and ground elsewhere

     This is the most daunting part, I will add more info later
     Reference: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8971.msg775152#msg775152

     Only two connections between trackpoint module and controller are required: DATA and CLOCK.
     Trackpoint modules needs other connections, including the three buttons and VCC/GND.

     If using tmk firmware by hasu, some electric components are required to build a R/C network for the RST pin of the trackpoint module, including:
     a. resistor: 4.7k ohm x 2 (pull-up resistors for DATA and CLOCK, one between DATA/VCC, and the other between CLOCK/VCC)
     b. resistor: 100k ohm x 1 (between RST/GND)
     c. capacitor: 2.2 uF x 1 (between RST/VCC, and note the polarity)

     The wiring would look like this:
     
     The R/C network is used to send a signal to reset the trackpoint module.     

     NOTE: DO NOT CONNECT THE RST PIN ON TEENSY, IT IS USED TO RESET TEENSY, NOT THE TRACKPOINT MODULE.

     IIRC, if using suka's firmware, the R/C network is not required. But the reset pin of trackpoint module should connect to
     another pin on teensy, in order to send a reset signal to the trackpoint module.

4. change the firmware, build and load into teensy, done!

     I am using tmk firmware by hasu.
     Change the config.h file (corresponding to the wiring above, if wired to different pins, you can change the code accordingly)

Code: [Select]

/* PS/2 mouse */
#ifdef PS2_USE_BUSYWAIT
#   define PS2_CLOCK_PORT  PORTD
#   define PS2_CLOCK_PIN   PIND
#   define PS2_CLOCK_DDR   DDRD
#   define PS2_CLOCK_BIT   5
#   define PS2_DATA_PORT   PORTD
#   define PS2_DATA_PIN    PIND
#   define PS2_DATA_DDR    DDRD
#   define PS2_DATA_BIT    4
#endif

     Also modify the Makefile, adding the following:

Code: [Select]

PS2_MOUSE_ENABLE = yes # PS/2 mouse(TrackPoint) support
PS2_USE_BUSYWAIT = yes

include $(TOP_DIR)/protocol.mk # if not already there

     Rebuild the firmware and load into teensy, it should work now.

[limitedreality]

I would much appreciate it plainbriny as I intend to do exactly what you've done here.  Keep us posted!

[plainbriny]

I have added some pics, will add more when time permits

[plainbriny]

I have add more details on connecting trackpoint module to ergodox.

If you have any questions or there are any error in my post, please tell me and I will update it accordingly.

[KK4TEE]

Plainbriny, thank you for the excellent guide that you posted above. It made doing my own trackpoint mod possible. I've followed your instructions to the best of my abilities but I can't seem to get my TP to connect to the Teensy in my ergodox. As part of my trouble shooting I connected the TP to an Arduino and was able to read the PS2 data over a serial connection, so I am pretty sure that the physical components work.  I have also gone through with a multimeter and all of the connections seem to be in order.

What version of TMK are you using? I am using https://github.com/cub-uanic/tmk_keyboard/tree/cub_layout for the ergodox build. I think there have been some updates to the original TMK since the fork was made, but I had a handful of errors trying to compile that and I haven't learned enough C yet to sort it out.

I am curious as to the reason that in code the PS2_CLOCK_BIT   is pin 4 while in the pictures it seems to reverse and use PD5 for the TP_CLK wire. Is it possible that I soldered the wires backwards?

I'd appreciate any help or advice. Thanks again!

Here are some pictures of my progress so far:

[plainbriny]

Hi, I think I have made a mistake in the wiring and the corresponding code. I will correct the code in my previous post.

You can change the code (PD4 for data/PD5 for clock) and recompile, it should work.

If not, you can also check the Makefile, cub's code is missing one line in the Makefile which is essential for PS2 mouse.

Code: [Select]

include $(TOP_DIR)/protocol.mk # if not already there

Sorry for the misleading code in my previous post. Hope this will work for you.

[KK4TEE]

Thanks for the update. I've made the changes you suggested but I still can't get the TMK firmware to recognize the Trackpoint. I have tried downloading a completely new copy of the source from github, just in case I had some odd config change that was messing things up, but the Trackpoint still failed to respond. Pins D4 and D5 just stay at a steady 5 volts.
f
I did some more research and was able to load the teensy in my ergodox with a ps2 test program using information discussed by this group: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TJYlWxdQgsCGO3YwdHaAeQjpceeQ9hpVJstuHzR1bWs/edit

I changed the pins in the teensyduino SDK to 23 and 22  in order to match the pins I'm using on the teensy. I was able to get the teensy in the ergodox to report the trackpoint data by itself, much like in the last picture I posted in my first post (although that was using a separate arduino). While doing this testing the voltage for TP_CLK fluctuates around 2.0V while working and TP_DATA fluctuates around 3.2V. This lets me know for certain that everything is now wired properly and that the problem must lie somewhere in my build of the TMK firmware.

I started looking through the source code to see if there was anything else related to pins D4 and D5 and found this in ergodox.c:

Code: [Select]

    // unused pins - C7, D4, D5, D7, E6
    // set as input with internal pull-ip enabled
    DDRC  &= ~(1<<7);
    DDRD  &= ~(1<<7 | 1<<5 | 1<<4);
    DDRE  &= ~(1<<6);
    PORTC |=  (1<<7);
    PORTD |=  (1<<7 | 1<<5 | 1<<4);
    PORTE |=  (1<<6);


I'm fairly new to electronics work and was wondering if the internal pull-up resistor should be disabled because I am now using external 4.7k pull-up resistors. I tried experimenting with the bitwise functions but I haven't been able to find a combination that works. I'll keep mucking around with the code and try to see if there's anything else I'm missing. Thanks again for your help.

[plainbriny]

Maybe you can try the onekey keyboard in tmk_firmware, as suggested in this thread:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50176.0

But change the pins to PD4 and PD5 instead (modify config.h)

Also, did you uncomment the following lines in Makefile?

Code: [Select]

PS2_MOUSE_ENABLE = yes # PS/2 mouse(TrackPoint) support
PS2_USE_BUSYWAIT = yes

[KK4TEE]

Thanks for the suggestion of using the onekey; my trackpoint works with TMK now! 

Now I just need to figure out what the differences are between the onekey settings and the ergodox config... 

[KK4TEE]

The differences between the config files seems to basically come down to where in the file I placed the changes. When I made my original attempts I copied the modifications to the bottom of the file and it compiled but didn't work. I'm now copying the changes into the same places as they are in the onekey example and, after some trial and error, have the keys more or less working properly on my ergodox. Now I just have to tune the keymap so that the keys are easy to use. I may resolder some of the buttons directly to the trackpoint module because the MOUSEKEY_ENABLE mappings seem to lack some of the features that the built in trackpoint unit has, such as click and drag.

Thank you again for the help! I am so glad to finally have this working.

[plainbriny]

If you want to use mouse key, you need to modify the source code, as discussed here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50176.30

But I think physical buttons on the trackpoint module would be better and more ergonomic, judging from the position of your trackpoint.

[zarquon]

I'm planning to make the same mods on my ergodox and wondering if it was possible to install a trackpoint module to each side of the ergodox, giving it more flexibility.

[nephiel]

Sorry about the necrobump but I just built my first custom 60% and the info on this thread proved invaluable in getting the TrackPoint to work with TMK.

Here is the pinout that I used:


Edit: I also needed this patch to fix a problem with missing characters when typing.

[zarquon]

Me too sorry about the necrobump, but this tread indeed supplies invaluable information.

If you use your trackpoint like me: for mouse movement only, and use them mouse_key function of tmk for mouse buttons, then you'll notice that dragging does not work.
I guess trackpoint data overwrites the mousekey data.
This topic is a guideline for a solution, but unfortunatelly, not a complete one: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50176.30

The key is, as lowpoly says in that thread, to modify action.c (common/action.c) this way:
overwrite this:

Code: [Select]

#ifdef MOUSEKEY_ENABLE
        /* Mouse key */
        case ACT_MOUSEKEY:
            if (event.pressed) {
mousekey_on(action.key.code);
mousekey_send();
            } else {
mousekey_off(action.key.code);
mousekey_send();
            }
            break;
#endif
to this:

Code: [Select]

#ifdef MOUSEKEY_ENABLE
        /* Mouse key */
        case ACT_MOUSEKEY:
            if (event.pressed) {
switch (action.key.code)
{
case KC_MS_BTN1:
tp_buttons |= (1<<0);
break;
case KC_MS_BTN2:
tp_buttons |= (1<<1);
break;
case KC_MS_BTN3:
tp_buttons |= (1<<2);
break;
default:
mousekey_on(action.key.code);
mousekey_send();
}
            } else {
switch (action.key.code)
{
case KC_MS_BTN1:
tp_buttons &= ~(1<<0);
break;
case KC_MS_BTN2:
tp_buttons &= ~(1<<1);
break;
case KC_MS_BTN3:
tp_buttons &= ~(1<<2);
break;
default:
mousekey_off(action.key.code);
mousekey_send();
}
            }
            break;
#endif
also, you have to declare tp_buttons in the start of action.c in this fashion:

Code: [Select]

int tp_buttons;

then, as lowpoly says, you need to use tp_buttons in ps2_mouse_task(). That took me a while to figure out.
what you do is, in protocol/ps2_mouse.c, you change this:

Code: [Select]

void ps2_mouse_task(void)
{                 
     enum { SCROLL_NONE, SCROLL_BTN, SCROLL_SENT };
     static uint8_t scroll_state = SCROLL_NONE;
     static uint8_t buttons_prev = 0;
           
     /* receives packet from mouse */
     uint8_t rcv;
     rcv = ps2_host_send(PS2_MOUSE_READ_DATA);
     if (rcv == PS2_ACK) {
         mouse_report.buttons = ps2_host_recv_response();
         mouse_report.x = ps2_host_recv_response();
         mouse_report.y = ps2_host_recv_response();
     } else {             
         if (debug_mouse) print("ps2_mouse: fail to get mouse packet\n");
         return;                   
     }
to this:

Code: [Select]

void ps2_mouse_task(void)
{                 
     enum { SCROLL_NONE, SCROLL_BTN, SCROLL_SENT };
     static uint8_t scroll_state = SCROLL_NONE;
     static uint8_t buttons_prev = 0;
     extern tp_buttons;
           
     /* receives packet from mouse */
     uint8_t rcv;
     rcv = ps2_host_send(PS2_MOUSE_READ_DATA);
     if (rcv == PS2_ACK) {
         mouse_report.buttons = ps2_host_recv_response() | tp_buttons;
         mouse_report.x = ps2_host_recv_response();
         mouse_report.y = ps2_host_recv_response();
     } else {             
         if (debug_mouse) print("ps2_mouse: fail to get mouse packet\n");
         return;                   
     }

this should work, though I can barely understand C, so maybe this is not the right thing to it. At least it works for me.
Hope somebody would find this useful.

[YoshiCaps]

I know that this has been pretty much solved but-

1. youre gonna have to break down a thinkpad or other laptop

2. its gonna take come coding

3. it will look weird

[v6ak]

You don't have to break a laptop. You can break down some keyboard bought at eBay for tens of USD. You can also buy a new trackpoint, but I've seen just one company that sells standalone trackpoint boards and it wasn't cheap (something like $25 for trackpoint plus $75 shipping regardless of location). But even this solution is quite cheaper than breaking a laptop.

I see different issues:

#1 Specs for most trackpoints are either missing or hard to find.
#2 It is going to be tight if you want to put between thumb sector and the main part. When considering together with #1, you might be buying some trackpoint that is not going to fit.

[Tye]

1. youre gonna have to break down a thinkpad or other laptop
2. its gonna take come coding
3. it will look weird

1. You can get these keyboards on Amazon in USA for about USD25. Just buy the whole board and use a screwdriver to extract the TrackPoint. I usually just go to old computer parts stores and ask them nicely for any used ones they have laying around. There is almost always a used board in a box in the back of the store that someone spilled coffee on. Cheap or free.
2. TMK works with a few Make settings already. I believe QMK just implemented this a few days ago but I haven't had a chance to test.
3. It can look nice if you're determined.  Here's mine: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82599.0

[pfoff]

I am trying to revive this old thread as I found the most interesting infos here. Great work that I can see here!
I am not realy well in doin hardware, but I would love to have apretty TKL keyboard with a trackpoint. I have all external rubber IBM/lenovo Keyboards they've built. No one lasted longer than a year...
So my plan ist, to build it in an old SpaceSaver II with teensy++. Just like you guys did. Do you think I may succeed with some TKL PCBs or is it impossible to pair them with the teensy and the trackpoint. Would that fit the (tremeled) case?
Or do I have to search for plates to handwire it? (for heavens sake, I have a friend who could help me then!-)
Where to get a plate and what plates do I need? But I will find that out. Have to do some RTFM still....
I know, this will not become a beauty, but I don't care it'll become my workhorse. Later then I think about build something like mtl's MX13 Spacesaver. Maybe he is around and can tell me about his improved version of the case?
Would be glad about any help.