Author Topic: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy  (Read 14865 times)

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Offline iri

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Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 03:32:24 »
Just ten days after taking the job, Brendan Eich has resigned as CEO of Mozilla after sparking outrage over his donation to an anti-same-sex marriage campaign.

In 2008, Eich donated $1,000 to California's Proposition 8 campaign. Prop 8 was a ballot initiative that sought to make same-sex marriage illegal in the state. News of Eich's donation was first made public in 2012, but attracted a new wave of attention last week when Eich was promoted to CEO from his previous job as chief technology officer.

Developers of Mozilla's Firefox browser, the gay community, vocal Mozilla employees and Firefox users took to blogs and Twitter (TWTR) to express outrage over Eich's appointment. Many called for his resignation. On Monday, online dating site OkCupid joined the fray and called for a boycott of the Firefox browser.

Eich defended himself in blog posts and interviews, saying he was committed to working with the LGBT community and continuing Mozilla's culture of openness and acceptance. He also apologized for "having caused pain."

Related: OkCupid protests Firefox over CEO's anti-same-sex marriage donation

Eich has been with the organization since the beginning -- he co-founded found the Mozilla Foundation in 1998. Mozilla owns the popular browser Firefox and is known for promoting open source software.

"Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech," said Mitchell Baker, Mozilla's executive chairwoman in a blog post announcing the resignation. "Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality. Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard."

According to the announcement, Eich made the decision to step down. Mozilla has not yet chosen a replacement, though it said it will have some information in a week.


Posted from my Firefox.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline sth

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 03:38:19 »
can't say i didn't see that coming...
you know what's better than apologizing for being a bigot?

also, think about what mozilla is actually saying. they're having a moral crisis about whether its more important to protect the "free" "speech" of a bigot than to fire an ******* who donated money to set back gay rights BY LAW and then not be called out for promoting the dude to a highly prominent, very public position in an open source nonprofit.

last i checked an OSS development house was not legally capable of infringing upon individuals' right to free speech. basically it looks like their board didn't give a **** that this guy was a turd until their employees and users complained. what does that tell you about the rest of mozilla's board?
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 April 2014, 03:44:02 by sth »
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 03:54:24 »
I still don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I'm all for same sex equality, but a person is allowed the freedom to express there own opinion freely without persecution, that's the idea behind freedom. I think it's pretty sad that in this instance he was given no opportunity to even demonstrate the ability to seperate his professional and personal life.

The whole mob mentaly of if you don't think like is your wrong is ****ed up and has caused more problems than it has ever solved.

Offline sth

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 03:59:03 »
I still don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I'm all for same sex equality, but a person is allowed the freedom to express there own opinion freely without persecution, that's the idea behind freedom. I think it's pretty sad that in this instance he was given no opportunity to even demonstrate the ability to seperate his professional and personal life.

The whole mob mentaly of if you don't think like is your wrong is ****ed up and has caused more problems than it has ever solved.
this is a dude that represents the right wing's ability to push hateful agendas. more than represents, he directly participated in attempting to legislate the rights and freedoms of others.
 if rich white men were being brutally beaten to death on a daily basis, if they were denied marriage rights, if they were denied their "equal" status as humans, then maybe what you're saying would apply. but this is a bigoted man who uses his resources and status to bigoted ends.

having just recently moved to a western european country, i am starting to realize that a lot of people around here are not really aware of how ****ed up lgbt rights in the US can be, and how somebody like this former CEO should not be excused for his views. things are not perfect anywhere but it definitely seems like public opinion and public policy has been much more socially left-leaning for much longer here and in the UK than in the US. then again... alan turing...
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:03:37 by sth »
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Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:03:37 »
I still don't know if this is a good or bad thing.
good for sure. who the **** wants to have a homophobic pig as a CEO. it doesn't matter how much Eich did for mozilla and the whole community of internet users. it only matters that in 2008 he donated $1000 to support gay marriage ban in california. what a douche.

and it's a good idea that the people opposing Eich called for not using firefox. they should have also called for switching off javascript in browsers.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:06:30 »
So because he's a wealthy white male he's not allowed an opinion? Or is it because he dsnt agree with same sex marriage that he's not allowed an opinion?
I personally feel anyone who belives in any god is a total moron, and would (if I had the money) lobby against organised religion. But that dsnt make me more or less of a person than someone who is religios. The about wanting equality is that it makes everyone equal, even people with opinions you don't like...

Offline sth

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:11:05 »
So because he's a wealthy white male he's not allowed an opinion? Or is it because he dsnt agree with same sex marriage that he's not allowed an opinion?
I personally feel anyone who belives in any god is a total moron, and would (if I had the money) lobby against organised religion. But that dsnt make me more or less of a person than someone who is religios. The about wanting equality is that it makes everyone equal, even people with opinions you don't like...

he HAS an opinion. it sucks really bad. it also has contributed to an uncountable number of people being harassed, denied equality and fair protection under the law, being assaulted and murdered. the dip****s who go out there and actually bash gay people (though it shouldn't matter if the abuse is physical or systemic) are the same people that are informed by political campaigns such as Prop 8... and he has paid money to continue that sort of treatment. that is about as effectively expressing your opinion as you possibly can in America. doesn't mean he is guaranteed a free pass not to be criticized for his opinion when it is made public. his status as a wealthy white male just means that historically, he and others in his position have had a platform to **** on people they don't like without reproach, and i don't think that's right.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:14:20 by sth »
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:22:58 »
So because he's a wealthy white male he's not allowed an opinion? Or is it because he dsnt agree with same sex marriage that he's not allowed an opinion?
I personally feel anyone who belives in any god is a total moron, and would (if I had the money) lobby against organised religion. But that dsnt make me more or less of a person than someone who is religios. The about wanting equality is that it makes everyone equal, even people with opinions you don't like...

he HAS an opinion. it sucks really bad. it also has contributed to an uncountable number of people being harassed, denied equality and fair protection under the law, being assaulted and murdered. the dip****s who go out there and actually bash gay people (though it shouldn't matter if the abuse is physical or systemic) are the same people that are informed by political campaigns such as Prop 8... and he has paid money to continue that sort of treatment. that is about as effectively expressing your opinion as you possibly can in America. doesn't mean he is guaranteed a free pass not to be criticized for his opinion when it is made public. his status as a wealthy white male just means that historically, he and others in his position have had a platform to **** on people they don't like without reproach, and i don't think that's right.

He personally contributed to the physical abuse of gay people? I don't think I've read that anywhere... He has an opinion he expressed it in possibly the most American way possible, he didn't protest, didn't discriminate someone at work, shout at someone in the street, he donated money to something he believed in.

Equality should give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him the chance to do his job in a professional and fair manner regardless of his sexual orientation, personal believes or religion. Unless of course your opinion differs from that of the majority...

Offline Lanx

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:34:56 »
**** him

but wtf, he only donated 1k? he didn't have an agenda...
he wasn't pushing his views on anyone

so you know what? **** firefox

look, ppl who believe in religion are idiots, or just have religion so ingrained in their lives, they just can't help themselves. yes i do have idiot religion ppl for friends, i'm sure we're all saddled with these lesser mortals who love to believe in myths and zombies, but they're still great ppl. (in fact i'm gonna fly to chicago next month and visit a couple and see their religious spawn, **** he even has a religious name, izaiah, i PLEADED with them, don't name him some ****ed up name!)

but wtf? all i see are butt hurt emo hipster programmers who took to social media to make a point, **** these *******s too.

you know what? prop8 passed, the governator said, **** you gays, **** you lesbo's go get married on the east coast, you have no legal rights on the west coast.

i mean shouldn't we be more interested in why a law that was written as a legal **** you gays passed? instead of bombarding this guys twitter account?

also, **** firefox, it's worse than chrome, **** it's worse than ie8

Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:37:28 »
**** him

but wtf, he only donated 1k? he didn't have an agenda...
he wasn't pushing his views on anyone

so you know what? **** firefox

look, ppl who believe in religion are idiots, or just have religion so ingrained in their lives, they just can't help themselves. yes i do have idiot religion ppl for friends, i'm sure we're all saddled with these lesser mortals who love to believe in myths and zombies, but they're still great ppl. (in fact i'm gonna fly to chicago next month and visit a couple and see their religious spawn, **** he even has a religious name, izaiah, i PLEADED with them, don't name him some ****ed up name!)

but wtf? all i see are butt hurt emo hipster programmers who took to social media to make a point, **** these *******s too.

you know what? prop8 passed, the governator said, **** you gays, **** you lesbo's go get married on the east coast, you have no legal rights on the west coast.

i mean shouldn't we be more interested in why a law that was written as a legal **** you gays passed? instead of bombarding this guys twitter account?

also, **** firefox, it's worse than chrome, **** it's worse than ie8
"**** you iri" might have shortened your post a bit.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Lanx

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:39:12 »
not really, b/c everyone is at fault, and no one is right or wrong.

Offline StylinGreymon

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:49:37 »
Eh, he had a right under law to his beliefs and his actions, and the community had a right to react accordingly.
If there's something wrong here, I don't really see it.

Also: how was his donation made public?
Isn't that sort of thing supposed to be private?
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:52:23 by StylinGreymon »
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 04:57:43 »
Eh, he had a right under law to his beliefs and his actions, and the community had a right to react accordingly.
If there's something wrong here, I don't really see it.

Also: how was his donation made public?
Isn't that sort of thing supposed to be private?

I think that it was just part of public records, I think he donated in like 2011? Or something like that? So after a while it just becomes publicly available information

Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 05:04:16 »
I think he donated in like 2011?
in 2008 he donated $1000 to support gay marriage ban in california
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 05:07:58 »
I think he donated in like 2011?
in 2008 he donated $1000 to support gay marriage ban in california

Yeah I knew it was a few years ago, which kind of makes it even more ridicules.. but alas

Offline Coreda

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 05:25:08 »
Faced with a way to voice criticism against a person with such views internet users spoke up, and a change occurred. Faced without a way to change history we continue to use every day a technology that was designed directly by the same person. Wonder who Mozilla will choose as their next CEO.

Offline demik

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 06:37:51 »
He didnt donate 1k.

He donated 10k in like an 8 year span.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 08:15:54 »
1k a year?! That makes him like, the most evil person EVER

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 09:55:36 »
I still don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I'm all for same sex equality, but a person is allowed the freedom to express there own opinion freely without persecution, that's the idea behind freedom. I think it's pretty sad that in this instance he was given no opportunity to even demonstrate the ability to seperate his professional and personal life.

The whole mob mentaly of if you don't think like is your wrong is ****ed up and has caused more problems than it has ever solved.

Strongly support you here Baldgye.

Every man has a right to his private opinion. I'm shocked that some people are so vehement in condemning anyone who is opposed to gay marriage.

As a Taoist I am neither for or against gay marriage. But 99% of Muslims (and this is a heavily Islamic region) are against gay marriage. I don't think calling at least 1.5billion people homophobic pigs is helpful towards mutual respect and understanding.

My personal view is, if the Catholics, Orthodox Jews, Muslims and fundamentalist Christians (who together make up the vast majority of the human race) are against gay marriage, fine, ban gay marriage and promote civil unions instead. That's a wording difference which makes all the difference in some places. Oh, and I"ll happily take a civil union myself, just to show support for the gays and lesbians. The religious people can have their 'marriages' if that word is so sacred to them.

If Marriage is a term that means 'sanctioned by God', since I don't believe in God, I should not get 'married' either. Civil union is fine with me.

Am just waiting for the flames to come blasting.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 10:04:40 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 10:06:33 »
I still don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I'm all for same sex equality, but a person is allowed the freedom to express there own opinion freely without persecution, that's the idea behind freedom. I think it's pretty sad that in this instance he was given no opportunity to even demonstrate the ability to seperate his professional and personal life.

The whole mob mentaly of if you don't think like is your wrong is ****ed up and has caused more problems than it has ever solved.

Strongly support you here Baldgye.

Every man has a right to his private opinion. I'm shocked that some people are so vehement in condemning anyone who is opposed to gay marriage.

As a Taoist I am neither for or against gay marriage. But 99% of Muslims (and this is a heavily Islamic region) are against gay marriage. I don't think calling at least 1.5billion people homophobic pigs is helpful towards mutual respect and understanding.

My personal view is, if the Catholics, Orthodox Jews, Muslims and fundamentalist Christians (who together make up the vast majority of the human race) are against gay marriage, fine, ban gay marriage and promote civil unions instead. That's a wording difference which makes all the difference in some places. Oh, and I"ll happily take a civil union myself, just to show support for the gays and lesbians. The religious people can have their 'marriages' if that word is so sacred to them.

If Marriage is a term that means 'sanctioned by God', since I don't believe in God, I should not get 'married' either. Civil union is fine with me.

Am just waiting for the flames to come blasting.

nobody really wants equality they all want to be 'better' than someone else, so you don't like what this person does then they are evil, goes both ways

at the end of the day one person says 'i'm right you are wrong' and the other side feels the same way. what bothers me is how one side can say their opinions are 'more right' than another.


Offline IPT

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 10:16:32 »
I still don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I'm all for same sex equality, but a person is allowed the freedom to express there own opinion freely without persecution, that's the idea behind freedom. I think it's pretty sad that in this instance he was given no opportunity to even demonstrate the ability to seperate his professional and personal life.

The whole mob mentaly of if you don't think like is your wrong is ****ed up and has caused more problems than it has ever solved.

Strongly support you here Baldgye.

Every man has a right to his private opinion. I'm shocked that some people are so vehement in condemning anyone who is opposed to gay marriage.

As a Taoist I am neither for or against gay marriage. But 99% of Muslims (and this is a heavily Islamic region) are against gay marriage. I don't think calling at least 1.5billion people homophobic pigs is helpful towards mutual respect and understanding.

My personal view is, if the Catholics, Orthodox Jews, Muslims and fundamentalist Christians (who together make up the vast majority of the human race) are against gay marriage, fine, ban gay marriage and promote civil unions instead. That's a wording difference which makes all the difference in some places. Oh, and I"ll happily take a civil union myself, just to show support for the gays and lesbians. The religious people can have their 'marriages' if that word is so sacred to them.

If Marriage is a term that means 'sanctioned by God', since I don't believe in God, I should not get 'married' either. Civil union is fine with me.

Am just waiting for the flames to come blasting.

btw the LGBT community doesn't want civil unions.  They don't want there to be segregation between the people who are "married" and the people who are ""civil union".  They claim this as discriminatory. 


nobody really wants equality they all want to be 'better' than someone else, so you don't like what this person does then they are evil, goes both ways

at the end of the day one person says 'i'm right you are wrong' and the other side feels the same way. what bothers me is how one side can say their opinions are 'more right' than another.



Bingo

Offline Latin00032

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 10:47:44 »
The CEO of chick fil a didn't quit.

I understand but I don't think he should have been fired.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 10:52:36 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.

quite

Offline IPT

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 10:55:46 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.

the most common response to this would be "bigots shouldn't be defended"
i've been apart of this debate on other forums and it usually breaks down to this.

Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 11:23:53 »
so you don't like what this person does then they are evil, goes both ways
in this story with Eich, it goes one way, unfortunately.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 12:15:53 »
Eh, he had a right under law to his beliefs and his actions, and the community had a right to react accordingly.
If there's something wrong here, I don't really see it.

This is my view as well.  If Eich's politics are so out of line with Mozilla's employees that they will quit, he isn't fit to be CEO.  My read on this is it's a business issue, not a political one.  Eich is free to believe what he wants and vote the way he wants, and people are free to leave Mozilla in response.

Offline demik

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 12:30:29 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline vun

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 12:37:46 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.


Seems that people frequently misinterpret "freedom of speech" as "backlash immunity".

Offline demik

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 12:50:27 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.


Seems that people frequently misinterpret "freedom of speech" as "backlash immunity".
Yup. Freedom of speech gives you the right to say what you want without the government stepping in. But if you offend people, it doesnt give you the right to be immune to backlash. It is quite simple.
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Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:06:28 »



I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.


Seems that people frequently misinterpret "freedom of speech" as "backlash immunity".
same with "personal" and "business".
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline demik

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:07:58 »
Well, I stopped shopping at target because they also donated to an anti gay politician. Only this guy wanted to kill homosexuals. I believe Target came out and aplogized about it and said they had no idea and were donating for another reason.



I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.


Seems that people frequently misinterpret "freedom of speech" as "backlash immunity".
same with "personal" and "business".

Ceo is the face of the company. If they want to seperate the two, well, they are in the wrong position.
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:07:59 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.


I think that really, he was forced out and that while no one literally put a gun to his head, having a high profile websites block FF becasue of his own views basically forced him out after he expressed an opinion. If this had something to do with how he treated people at work or decisions he had made as a CEO then it would be different, but as it stands this guy simply dsnt agree with same sex marage (**** I cant spell) and becasue of that lost his job.
It's not a subject I've had much chance to go over with a fine tooth comb but from what I've read he's not homophobic and anti gay, his views aren't illegal. So why should it have forced him to loose his job?

Like I said before I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but having someone like him publicly humiliated and forced out of a job becasue of a personal believe seems to contradict the ideals of freedom that people who are pro same sex marage are striving for.

Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:16:59 »
Viva Revolution!
here's the list, lets get those pitchforks ready

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2014/04/brendan_eich_quits_mozilla_let_s_purge_all_the_antigay_donors_to_prop_8.2.html
WOOHOO!
never use AT&T services;
never fly Boeing airplanes;
check if you ISP uses Cisco hardware;
don't watch Disney films;
never ship with FedEx;
don't use Google;
throw away your Nvidia card;
delete Oracle JVM from all your machines;
and NEVER, EVER shop in Walmart.

come on people, do a proper witch hunt!
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:19:17 »
NEVER, EVER shop in Walmart.

solid advice

Offline IPT

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:19:51 »
NEVER, EVER shop in Walmart.

solid advice

unless you're on a budget and really that's what you can afford.

Offline demik

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:29:44 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.


I think that really, he was forced out and that while no one literally put a gun to his head, having a high profile websites block FF becasue of his own views basically forced him out after he expressed an opinion. If this had something to do with how he treated people at work or decisions he had made as a CEO then it would be different, but as it stands this guy simply dsnt agree with same sex marage (**** I cant spell) and becasue of that lost his job.
It's not a subject I've had much chance to go over with a fine tooth comb but from what I've read he's not homophobic and anti gay, his views aren't illegal. So why should it have forced him to loose his job?

Like I said before I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but having someone like him publicly humiliated and forced out of a job becasue of a personal believe seems to contradict the ideals of freedom that people who are pro same sex marage are striving for.

Well, thats the beauty of the free market. People vote with their dollars. He made an executive decision and saw what was best for the company and stepped down. He could have easily ignored it and be hard headed.
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline ferociousfingerings

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:40:31 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.


Seems that people frequently misinterpret "freedom of speech" as "backlash immunity".

More like the backlash constituent misinterprets "freedom of speech."

Do they not realize he is entitled to think/feel/speak in opposition to them?


I had been tempted to comment here, and have discarded several attempts. I'm not sure how to say what needs saying, without offending someone.

My personal, typical reaction to that last part (feeling like i can't speak my mind without an unreasonable backlash), is to just say it anyway, because 1) "**** you, that's why!" and 2) "freedom of speech."

I have to give y'all a chance to accept my opinion, even while anticipating many will overreact and misinterpret it.

I'm not gay, and i don't really care whether gay people marry. I'm not going to go out of my way to endorse it, but neither would i lobby against it. It's an issue that simply doesn't concern me in the slightest, except for the veracity with which it is emphasized and pursued, and often used as an excuse for a witch hunt. I don't feel threatened in any way, by the notion or practicalities of gay marriage. I personally don't hold the notion of marriage in such high regard, and the whole thing seems silly to me. Marriage, to me, seems to carry a negative connotation of the feeling of the need to contractually obligate someone to remain with you; if it's really love (which is what *I* think marriage should be about), then you shouldn't need to coerce anyone into a legally binding contract, in order for them to remain a prominent and prioritized fixture in your life.

Tax benefits? Okay, point granted.

However...

I do not think it's "wrong" for someone to think or speak in opposition to gay marriage... but the idea of lobbying against what someone else feels are their rights, is what i find disturbing. And this happens in countless realms of law. It upsets me to think of all the people literally throwing money at a system, in attempt to control (read: "limit") what other people are allowed to do, or manipulate how they are recognized "in the eyes of the law" (isn't justice supposed to be blind?).

So, i will grant that the backlash against lobbying, in this case, is warranted. But he is allowed his opinion, just like anyone else (including all the gays who think any opinion contrary to theirs should be labeled "bigotry," though i find that opinion especially fallacious, and vehemently oppose it). As soon as people turn it into "he shouldn't be allowed a dissenting opinion," THEN i have a problem with it.

So my perspective is that neither "side" is "right." Two wrongs don't make a right. (but three lefts do)

He shouldn't be lobbying against other people's perceived rights, and those people shouldn't be insisting that he not be allowed a different opinion than theirs, and then intentionally impeding the functionality of something that not only he uses, just because they don't like his opinion (though i would argue that lobbying versus impeding ff functionality is kinda fair... or at least relatively justified, and i can't deny being a fan of "an eye for an eye").

After all, a huge tenet of the LGBTx community, is the right to be accepted and fairly treated, despite perceived (and actual) differences, and unconventional and/or alternate preference or lifestyle.

For any LGBTx to say "he's not allowed to have that opinion," is literally "the pot calling the kettle black."

I realize accusing anyone of hypocrisy is never a popular stance, but there it is. This seems to be a common occurrence among mob-mentality witch hunts.

"What's right is not always popular; what's popular is not always right."


Again, if you argue for acceptance of people's rights to opinions, you also have to protect the bigots! (even if you dislike their opinion, they are still humans with rights, just like you) You don't just get to arbitrarily pick and choose which or whose opinions should be allowed, based on your own personally biased preference. Otherwise, you're basically saying "only my opinion is acceptable, and anyone who disagrees should have no rights." That's not going to work out well, and i would argue, is yet another form of bigotry.

But instead of making it all anti-bigotry hate, we should focus our attention on the lobbying for reduction or prevention of human's rights.

Let them have their dissenting opinions, as long as they aren't actually infringing your rights (as which in this case, lobbying could/should be construed).

An argument against lobbied oppression is more credible and legitimate than an argument of preference against contrary preference.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:45:26 »

I think the Voltaire's quote comes handy here:


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


There is a basic contradiction when those that are defending freedom, are acting against it, when they prosecute this guy, because they do not agree with his ideas.
Who is taking away his freedom of speech? Mozilla employees expressed their feelings on their boss. The free market expressed their opinions of him and he decided to step down. Nobody put a gun to his head. He's free to say what he wants and have whatever believes he chooses. Freedom of speech doesnt protect you from backlash for what you said.


I think that really, he was forced out and that while no one literally put a gun to his head, having a high profile websites block FF becasue of his own views basically forced him out after he expressed an opinion. If this had something to do with how he treated people at work or decisions he had made as a CEO then it would be different, but as it stands this guy simply dsnt agree with same sex marage (**** I cant spell) and becasue of that lost his job.
It's not a subject I've had much chance to go over with a fine tooth comb but from what I've read he's not homophobic and anti gay, his views aren't illegal. So why should it have forced him to loose his job?

Like I said before I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but having someone like him publicly humiliated and forced out of a job becasue of a personal believe seems to contradict the ideals of freedom that people who are pro same sex marage are striving for.

Well, thats the beauty of the free market.

I don't think I agree with that, I'd say this is a pretty big negative for a free market.
In a free and open world, (in which we should all strive to live) people should be able to personally express them self's and there opinions. Most people (me included) are able to hold possibly extreme views about certain groups of people (I for example think that organized religion is the biggest evil on the planet and that all that contribute it are morons etc) but in my professional life I'm still able to without prejudice work with and help religious people.

This bloke decided to put some money towards something he believed in personally about what marage is (again spelling is letting me down) as some people rightly or wrongly attribute it with religion and then it gets all kinds of personal for them. People disagreed with him and others who hold this position, but instead of simply being happy about the thing (Prop 8?) that he supported ultimately failing, they decided that no, that wasn't enough and they would then go after his professional career too years later.


How has getting this man fired (essentially) helped anyone? It's not going to help sway his opinion, it's not going to help change the minds of people who are against gay marage. All it does is turn an already difficult subject for some people into an even more difficult one, where you have people worried about how they might in the future support things they believe in...

Offline Linkbane

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 13:52:02 »
I still don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I'm all for same sex equality, but a person is allowed the freedom to express there own opinion freely without persecution, that's the idea behind freedom. I think it's pretty sad that in this instance he was given no opportunity to even demonstrate the ability to seperate his professional and personal life.

The whole mob mentality of if you don't think like is your wrong is ****ed up and has caused more problems than it has ever solved.

I do support gay rights, and I would definitely not support Proposition 8. However, it seems ridiculous that this person was fired for his political views; it's no different whatsoever than donating towards a Romney campaign which would have also attempted to end gay marriage, and it's ridiculous that this man shouldn't be able to lead a company because he doesn't want gay marriage. There's nothing wrong with gay marriage, and there's nothing wrong with wishing it didn't exist in American mentality. I feel sorry for the guy, honestly.
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Offline demik

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 14:07:52 »
He wasnt fired. He stepped down.
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 14:09:49 »
I do support gay rights, and I would definitely not support Proposition 8. However, it seems ridiculous that this person was fired for his political views
read more carefully.

There's nothing wrong with gay marriage
besides that it's not a marriage.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 14:23:48 »
He wasnt fired. He stepped down.

I knew you'd not bother give a decent reply, so good job!


besides that it's not a marriage.

it is in the UK!

Offline demik

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 14:25:48 »
He wasnt fired. He stepped down.

I knew you'd not bother give a decent reply, so good job!


besides that it's not a marriage.

it is in the UK!

Lost me there
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Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 14:49:20 »
it is in the UK!
together with separate taps!
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline baldgye

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 14:50:48 »
taps? or did you mean TRAPS?!

Offline iri

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Re: Mozilla CEO resigns over anti-same-sex-marriage controversy
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 14:56:47 »
taps? or did you mean TRAPS?!
whoa whoa whoa, young man!

59879-0
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury